Changing Your Programming

tilting_at_windmills

Changing Your Programming

I mentioned in the first book that I am not a motivational speaker.

I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be their own self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not a Rollo Tomassi success story, but their own success stories.

That said, let me also add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will and determination. God willing, they can be masters of those circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions in which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s Hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.

These are the last words from The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine. I wrote something similar in the first book too, but I’m quoting them here because they are just as important now as they were when I was writing them then. I’m not now nor have I ever been interested in creating a cult of Rollo. I’m not interested in creating better men, I’m interested in those men making themselves better men.

Descriptions and Prescriptions

You’ll have to forgive me, I wrote this part about a year ago, but I think it’s still relevant now. In part 4 of Preventative Medicine a commenter (who, for the record is not an InCel by any stretch) asked me why I had no real prescriptive plan for men to follow with regards to ‘preventing’ or avoiding the bad decisions associated with the time line I laid out in that series. This was my response:

Imagine for a moment I had the temerity to presume that I know exactly what a 60 year old reader experiences in his personal life with a post-menopausal wife. I could take a good stab at it, but anything specific I could prescribe for him would be based on my best-guess speculations and according to how I’ve observed and detailed things in this series or any of my past posts.

From my earliest posts at SoSuave (in 2004) I’ve had men ask me for some ‘medicine’ for their condition; some personalized plan that will work for them. This sentiment is exactly what makes PUA and manosphere ‘self-help’ speakers sell DVDs and seats at seminars. They claim to have the cure. I say that’s bullshit.

I’m not in the business of cures, I’m in the business of diagnoses. Imagine a PUA guru attempting to force fit their plans to accommodate that 60 year old man’s situation. Athol Kay makes attempts to remedy married men’s (non) sex lives, but what’s his real success rate? Is it even measurable? Even Athol recognizes that his MMSL outline is just a map, a diagnosis, that men have to modify for themselves per their individual experience and demographic. You see, your cure, your plan of action isn’t what another man’s will be, or your future son’s, or anyone else reading my work. I can give you a map, but you still have to make your own trail. I’m not a savior, you are your savior

Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.

What’s more legitimate, my prescribing some course or template to follow that leads a man to a success that ultimately I define for a reader, or my laying out an accurate landscape for his better understanding and he creates his own success with it?

Are you your success or my success? I’d rather a Man be his own.

Most men already suspect they know what the keys are, and most even know how to use them, but what they really want is confirmation that they actually have the keys.

My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans. It’s gotten to a stage where even the most enthusiastic proponents of PUA techniques acknowledge a need for an individualized approach to relating and interacting with women based on a broader applied understanding of feminine psychology, sociology and the particular conditions that apply to themselves as well as the women they’re interacting with.

It’s been noted before, my approach to Game / Red Pill awareness is descriptive, not prescriptive.

I’m humbled by the men who email me and let me know how something I’ve written or shined a light on for them has saved them from suicide or some particular hell they would’ve endured longer in. For the most part though I get email and comments from men who tell me that they have built better lives for themselves because a Red Pill awareness made their situations more intelligible. I don’t sell a program or a prescription because each man’s circumstance is different, his acculturation is different, his ethnicity, society, upbringing, body composition and mental faculties are all different.

But we are all men. If the Red Pill is anything it’s a consortium of men who relate their individual experiences about women, about themselves and about their circumstances in what’s now become a feminine-primary social order. As I’ve stated in the past, I’m humbled and flattered to be considered one of the pillars of Red Pill awareness, but most of what I write is the result of piecing together the related experiences of other men.

I didn’t create the Red Pill, I just describe that awareness in terms I think are intelligible. I connect dots, but much of those dots are presented to me by a collective of men who’ve had common experiences. If those dots don’t follow, if those dots would be better connected in another way, I expect the Men who make up Red Pill awareness to offer their new ideas in an open exchange, in a marketplace of ideas.

Sometimes that marketplace gets weighed down with disingenuous critics, trolls and attention seekers, but this is the price, I believe, is necessary to distill and test the strength of those ideas. Only in a crucible of open debate where all are encouraged to participate can those ideas be sussed out.

Men with questions don’t frighten me; men with no questions do.

Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous
The world is dangerous and enemies are everywhere— everyone has to protect themselves. A fortress seems the safest. But isolation exposes you to more dangers than it protects you from-it cuts you off from valuable information, it makes you conspicuous and an easy target. Better to circulate among people, find allies, mingle. You are shielded from your enemies by the crowd.

From Nursing Power:

A handful of my male readers often ask why I don’t moderate comments, or that the message of Rational Male would be better served if I banned certain commenters. I’ve mentioned on several posts and threads as to why I won’t ever do that (except for blatant spamming), but in a nutshell it’s my fundamental belief that the validity of any premise or idea should be able to withstand public debate. People who aren’t confident of the strength of their assertions or ideas, or are more concerned with profiting from the branding of those weak assertions than they are in truth, are the first to cry about the harshness of their critics and kill all dissent as well as all discourse about those assertions.

That’s the primary reason I’ve never moderated; if people think I’m full of shit I’m all ears – I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve thought of every angle about any idea I express here or on any other forum. However, the second reason I don’t censor, ban users or delete comments is that I believe it’s useful to have critics (usually women or fem-men) provide the gallery with examples of exactly the mentality or dynamic I’m describing in an essay. With a fair amount of predictability, a blue pill male or an upset woman will just as often prove my point for me and serve as a model for what I’ve described.

I never intentionally try to make rubes out of the critics I know will chime in about something, but I will sometimes leave out certain considerations I may have already thought about something, knowing it will get picked up on by a critic. I do this on occasion because the I know that the “ah hah! I got him, he forgot about X,Y, Z” moment serves as a better teaching tool and confirms for me that a critic does in fact comprehend what I’m going on about.

Last week Roosh came out against the various tribes of Game such as it is. While I understand his intent I must disagree with his methods. A couple of weeks ago I got into a bit of political discourse with regard to how the Feminine Imperative and how Hypergamy influences social dynamics. That post generated a lot of conversation, but from it I made this statement:

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

As most of my readers know I have a great deal of respect for Roosh and I still do. Nothng is going to change that. I think time will tell what direction his push for Neomasculine philosophy truly goes in. As far as what he’s describing in that “new” doctrine there’s not much I disagree with. I’ll take issue with his anti-evolution, anti-evo psych stance. I’ll take issue with his want for some as yet undefined moralism; and not because I don’t think morality or reverence to a higher power shouldn’t be part of it, but rather because it pollutes and distorts open discourse.

I’m not an atheist, anyone who’s read my commentary on Dalrock’s site knows this. That said I don’t think there is a substitute for critical inquiry, and when that is stifled, that’s when we lean over into dogma.

From Moral to the Manosphere:

Putting angel’s or devil’s wings on observations hinders real understanding.

I say that not because I don’t think morality is important in the human experience, but because our interpretations of morality and justice are substantially influenced by the animalistic sides of our natures, and often more than we’re willing to admit to ourselves. Disassociating one’s self from an emotional reaction is difficult enough, but adding layers of moralism to an issue only convolutes a better grasp of breaking it down into its constituent parts. That said, I also understand that emotion and, by degree, a sense of moralism is also characteristic of the human experience, so there needs to be an accounting of this into interpretations of issues that are as complex as the ones debated in the manosphere.

Although I’m aware that observing a process will change it, it’s my practice  not to draw moralistic conclusions in any analysis I make because it adds bias where none is necessary. The problem is that what I (and others in the manosphere) propose is so raw it offends ego-invested sensibilities in people. Offense is really not my intent, but often enough it’s the expected result of dissecting cherished beliefs that seem to contribute to the well being of an individual.

There was a time I sat in a behavioral psychology class back in college. Behaviorism appealed to me because it was very nuts & bolts, not at all like the touchy-feely humanist schools of psychology. Behavior is the only reliable proof of motive. It was cause and effect, modify variables, and watch for behavior.

At one point I began to see that women are masters of operant conditioning – they had the natural reward 99% of men want, sex. Men’s behavior could be modified just by the prospect of sex, and they could also be influenced by negative reinforcement and punishment. It was one thing to make these observation, but quite another to express them in the classroom. Many of the more intelligent minds I dealt with then would adamantly refuse to recognize the truths that operant conditioning played. After I thought about it I understood that they were likewise motivated to deny what I thought was right in front of their faces.

I had connected some uncomfortable dots; dots that had the potential of making a man less desirable for having connected them. This was really the beginning of many more uncomfortable connections I would make later.

Roosh has tried to make a case that the Red Pill community (subred) has now reached critical mass. He sees it as inbred; a community of complainers – and in some instances I can understand that. Debate can often sound like complaining. However, what I get from Roosh now is a need for answers, it seems to me he’s looking for a plan of action. He wants something prescriptive for himself and other men to follow on with. I get it.

He’s still included Red Pill truths as being an important part of his new doctrine and I’d respect him for that, if not for the wholesale disownment of the consortium that’s been the testbed for those truths for so long. As I stated above, I think Neomasculinity may have some merit, I don’t disagree with about 90% of the manifesto Roosh went to great effort to put together. What I disagree with is how he’s initiated all of this. He does no favors to himself with casual dismissals of principles he knows are deeper than he wants to give credit to – in fact most are principles he influenced personally.

As for my part, I’m going to keep doing what I do and that’s making men aware of the world that’s been pulled over their eyes. I will likely have some strong disagreement with Roosh in the future, but as I’m fond of saying unplugging men from the matrix is dirty work. We’re both in the same family, and sometimes brothers will fight, and that’s OK.

I disagree with him that the Red Pill will cease to go on. It may be called something else, but it’s been around before he or I started writing about it. The “Red Pill”, like many other terms, is an abstraction; a place holder for an idea. Don’t like the Matrix movie references? Fine, but the truth is the truth and freely expressed ideas need words to describe them.

Maybe Neomasculinity is the prescription you need, but from what I can gather so far it’s a movement based on exclusion; not inclusion, not on a free exchange of ideas. Maybe the christianized Red Pill of Donalgraeme or Dalrock is a better prescription for you. Maybe you need the inspiration of a guy like Victor Pride and a better outlook on your physique.

Or maybe all you need is a truth and an awareness to help you lift yourself up. Yes, Red Pill awareness can be very depressing in the beginning, I’ve written several posts and book chapters dedicated to helping men come to terms with that, but ultimately it will be that awareness that becomes the catalyst for changing his life.

The Red Pill isn’t one size fits all, you have to tailor your own life with what it shows you.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

1,375 comments on “Changing Your Programming

  1. Sun, I was going to get all “fine, it’s not a 5.5″ floppy, I’ll just polarize the coating on your computer’s hard-drive through the wall… but you keep it in a faraday cage.” on you. After all, the counter-straw-man-straw-man you quoted was addressing electrons, not ferrous materials, and the point was a continuation of the fallibility point…

    But, I found your marginalizing far more interesting.

    Luddite, the way you applied it, is using newspeak. Quite actually, and quite ironically, the inverse is more appropriate, based on what the original Luddites were about.

    I’d much rather discuss the bastardization of language into newspeak than some bitcoin video game.

  2. rugby11ljh
    June 2nd, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    Engineers don’t generally discover stuff. Their job is to make use of discoveries. And that is the final proof of the truth of the discovery. You can use it.

  3. rugby11ljh
    June 2nd, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    You know the words but they don’t make coherent sentences. That says you don’t know the language. You sound like “automobile house stoplight bridge hole in the road.” All perfectly good words. Incoherently strung together.

    You should take Sun Wukong’s June 2nd, 2015 at 3:53 pm advice.

  4. Have you guys noticed when these female commenters engage us the discourse looses all rational and becomes very illogical and highly emotional involving words like “rage”, “hate”, “insecurity”, etc? The entire exchange morphs into highly “soapoperatic” and meaningless nonproductive interactions.

  5. @Charlotte Allen

    “Mmm, I’m bored, too. And my attention is now riveted by the Caitlyn Jenner story”

    This comment tells you everything there is to know about CA.

    This is a prime example. CA, like all females has an insatiable appetite for meaningless frivolous crappy nonsense. Jenner isn’t nearly as “news worthy” as the FI controlled media wants everyone to think. CA and millions of low IQ lemmings like her is what supports and promotes the crap. Who really gives a rats ass about it and who’s lives are really being affected? What is being accomplished? Noting but totally ridiculous perverted crap. Why must the FI controlled media hold everyone a captive audience to this shit?

  6. insanitybytes22

    June 2nd, 2015 at 8:37 am

    “… Just call me girl-pinata. …”

    We are still waiting for the goodies to fall out.

  7. After reading back through this absurdly long comment thread, it seems clear as a pane of glass to me that the She-Trolls who’ve been circling like starving buzzards are exclusively comprised of bereft post-sexual-market crones, saddled with beta husbands whom they’ve detested for decades, but cannot and will not publicly admit to it (“my husband’s a super-alpha!®”). They come here for the ONLY alpha attention that they can muster in this big, unfair world (even though it’s harshly negative attention lol hmmm…go figure).

    New Motto:

    “The Rational Male: proudly giving ‘alpha mercy’ hamster rubs to frustrated grannies since 2011.”

    And it’s the only work that’s dirtier than unplugging AFC’s. That being said, I think I need to go take a day-long hot shower with a brillo pad and a gallon jug of bleach. Glenn—in my book—is now eligible for sainthood. I can’t even imagine how many harpycronegasms he handed out like Halloween candy on this comment thread alone.

  8. @ Not Born This Morning

    Ah, but CA (target#2) has an important education and credentials, and she’s on the radio talking about Bruce’s problems. She has status! And nothing trumps status! Because she has status! everything she says and feels is therefore important and worthy of consideration if not outright acceptance and agreement. She must be a serious mind and intellect and therefore who better to tell us how small our penises are, how dank the basements we dwell in and how unjustified our emotions.

  9. Ah, but CA (target#2) has an important education and credentials, and she’s on the radio talking about Bruce’s problems.

    Until proven beyond a doubt that the person posting here is really Charlotte Allen, don’t assume it is. Her/his/its behavior in this thread highly suggests he/she/it is a trolling fraud. Abetting in its deception will just give the Troll some cheap thrills.

    ‘She’ can easily prove it who ‘she’ is.

    Let ‘her’ do so.

  10. Yeah, I deleted the bulk of the previous post and tried to paraphrase, for brevity, instead.

    I figured you guys were probably pissy about referencing IT shop-talk tendencies as “tech-dork”.

    Now, bitcoin is so magically awesome that electro-magnetism can’t erase hard-drives of bitcoin proponents because that’s just word-salad. And, luddites are just against technology for any reason, regardless of more efficient and wage-slavery-avoiding technologies, independent of whether they have, want, or need a job or not.

    When it gets to this point, it’s time to make things real again. Good afternoon, gents. No hard feelings, I just don’t care to persist.

  11. Woe be to you Seraph. Tread lightly comrade, questioning the credentials and status! of your betters is just not nice, among other things. You might be a hater of the small dicked variety. How can you doubt Target#2 is real? She’s on the radio! She’s talking about the most pressing issue of the day: dickless Republicans. I just wish my penis were larger, and hate smaller so I could discourse about MTF trans politics.

    Oh how I long, often crying myself to sleep, to talk about weighty issues with important people on the radio. I guess we could discuss such matters here. Instead we waste time and effort talking about currency, and money, and ways to live better lives. I am ashamed of our trivial topics, and the lack of diversity and status! we bring. We could be talking about Bruce, and he’s like connected and shit to Kim. So important and yet a topic that will never gain traction in hive of scum and villainy such as this.

  12. @Vulpine

    No. Kind of impossible to offend me when I didn’t read the vast majority of your post. I read enough to realize you didn’t understand the part I had contradicted you on and very lightly skimmed the rest; it was just your typical indictment of anyone not roughing it out in the woods as an attempt to set up a straw man I had no desire to even look at, much less deal with.

    I can’t really be offended when I just don’t give a fuck what you have to say outside of what I felt interested in responding to.

  13. @bp

    So important and yet a topic that will never gain traction in hive of scum and villainy such as this.

    And violence. Don’t forget violence.

  14. “And violence. Don’t forget violence.”

    My shame only grows, must be a lack of status! or a degree from a fancy university.

  15. @ Rollo Tomassi
    Oh and droid, next time you want to run your motherhood schtick try it here first fraud.

    You’ve become coke binge, push a stripper out the window enraged because I brought up the motherhood instinct.

    Bro, your style is weak.

  16. @bp

    must be a lack of status! or a degree from a fancy university.

    Don’t I know it. Woe is us. Are us? Shit I have no idea. If only I had a fancy degree to tell me which is right.

  17. “…motherhood trolling is is 3 weeks old…”

    They grow up so fast hardly any time to just enjoy them.

  18. @ Rollo Tomassi

    If I didn’t point out that your AF/BB hypothesis was wrong sooner or later somebody else would have. That’s what you’re missing.

  19. @ Rollo Tomassi

    BTW I might be wrong on this but I’m fairly sure that the Motherhood instinct started in this thread or the last. I’m pretty sure it’s all contained in this thread.

  20. I don’t think droid’s trolling, honestly. I’m pretty sure he believes what he’s saying, but I’m also pretty much convinced he’s wrong.

  21. @ Sun Wukong

    I don’t think droid’s trolling, honestly. I’m pretty sure he believes what he’s saying, but I’m also pretty much convinced he’s wrong.

    That’s the normal, healthy reaction we all expect when there is a disagreement.

    @ Rollo
    All of my original posts to you were deferential and polite. Post after post of polite.

  22. @zdr01dz

    If I didn’t point out that your AF/BB hypothesis was wrong sooner or later somebody else would have. That’s what you’re missing.

    LOL

    I’m now willing to wait for the next post by Rollo to deal with this.

  23. @badpainter –

    “Ah, but CA (target#2) has an important education and credentials, and she’s on the radio talking about Bruce’s problems. She has status! And nothing trumps status! Because she has status! everything she says and feels is therefore important and worthy of consideration if not outright acceptance and agreement. She must be a serious mind and intellect and therefore who better to tell us how small our penises are, how dank the basements we dwell in and how unjustified our emotions.”

    All true but she concerns me no more than the fact that she is exemplary of the typical characteristic. I have no concern for any woman who falls below HB7 or 8 and will preform as I desire and certainly none for CA specifically who appears so visually repulsive in her posted pic that she could kiss a bulldogs ass and knock the wrinkles off its face. I bet she has to sneak up on a glass of water to get a drink.

  24. I have a feeling arguing with droid on a serious level will have to begin with an argument over burden of proof. Unfortunately, I don’t think that part will be entertaining :/

  25. @ Jeremy
    LOL, I’m now willing to wait for the next post by Rollo to deal with this.

    AF/BB was not meant to describe the sum total of female mating behavior. It perfectly describes a very, specific type of woman that rides the CC through her 20s and early 30s, hits the wall and settles for a BB. Maybe a little cheating and divorce rape later on.

    That’s who AF/BB describes. And in that regard it hits it out of the park.

  26. Let me just say in no uncertain terms I’m a free agent. I ream RM, CH and sometimes Dalrock.

    If Susan Walsh wrote that then she read what I wrote on Dalrock.

    In fact I think I can prove it! I’ll go check the dates on my Dalrock post.

  27. That was meant to say READ, not ream.

    I read RM, Ch and Dalrock. I never post on CH, maybe a couple ever on Dalrock. I post almost exclusively on RM.

    That chick copied me and I’m going to go find the post and the date. It’s my writing.

  28. @zdr01dz

    AF/BB was not meant to describe the sum total of female mating behavior. It perfectly describes a very, specific type of woman that rides the CC through her 20s and early 30s, hits the wall and settles for a BB. Maybe a little cheating and divorce rape later on.

    That’s who AF/BB describes. And in that regard it hits it out of the park.

    No. The married chick I hooked up with was not “that type” at all. Ever. She, like most every “not that type” chick quite honestly never thought herself that type. She never rode the CC. She and her husband were together starting like her second year of college. She had dated maybe one or two guys before that. Very traditional religious upbringing and beliefs.

    But, despite my warnings to never fess up if her husband didn’t have solid evidence (because her kids would get caught in the crossfire), she eventually did thinking she would get more time with me once she was away from her 300lb Beta husband.

    This woman calls me a “god” in bed and freaks out over the shape I’m in right now. I am so clearly an Alpha to her it ain’t even funny. I had TOLD her we wouldn’t be together if they got divorced. Yet she overrode the motherhood instinct you think is more powerful to pursue an attempt to lock down an AF and bail on her BB despite my telling her it wasn’t happening.

    I have watched it firsthand, and you’re simply wrong. It doesn’t describe party girls. It describes every woman. It’s imperfect and there are exceptions, but it describes her, my mom, my sister, your wife, and every woman I’ve dated, tried to date, or been friends with. AWALT.

    I’ve watched it play out so many times that when I first read Rollo’s description of it, virtually every woman I’ve ever known in my entire life suddenly made total sense. There might be exceptions, and there might be some possibility that you’re married to one of them. I highly doubt that though, and in any event the motherhood thing just doesn’t ring true in my experience at all.

  29. @zdr01dz

    AF/BB was not meant to describe the sum total of female mating behavior.

    So now you’re attempting to divine the intent of all red pill writers? That’s an even taller order than proving motherhood is an instinct. Back off the high-level-of-proof-claims man, before it’s too late.

    It perfectly describes a very, specific type of woman that rides the CC through her 20s and early 30s, hits the wall and settles for a BB.

    Wrong. It describes competing motivations in any woman’s search for sexual optimum, that’s all. Women need two things, security and genetic potential. Those two things are only somewhat rarely found in the same individual, so finding the best genes does not always mean the best security, neither does finding the best security mean finding the best genes.

    You’ve simply, completely misread the entire point of AF/BB.

  30. @ Rollo Tomassi

    Upon re-reading Susan Walsh’s post she definitely twisted what I said and pumped in some feminist thinking.

    I’m just saying women want kids. She’s injecting politics.

  31. The whole motherhood thing strikes me as angles dancing on a pin head type debate. The nature of AF is the root of the motherhood thing as selection for sperm, while the BB is the selection for resources. How in anyway does this idea prove AF/BB wrong? How does it make a bit of difference to any individual man? How is this relevant other than as another proof of support for AF/BB? How does this affect and effect the trans community? What does Target#2 feel about this? When is she going to discuss it on the radio? Can I gain status! from this knowledge? Will it jeapordize Bitcoin? Does Target #1 feel threatened? Did you see Kim’s latest selfie? Is my dank basement making my penis smaller, and causing hate? What did Nixon know and when did he know it? What sort of shoes was he wearing at the time?

  32. I’m just saying women want kids.

    That’s just pure straw-man, easy to knock over and appear to make a point. Of course women want kids. Men want kids too (generally). Anything with DNA will, by definition, have a reproductive instinct. If it didn’t, it wouldn’t exist. Saying that doesn’t prove anything w.r.t. the instincts of an animal.

  33. Take this from someone who wasn’t born this morning. All the female posters here can be separated into two categories. I have read this blog regularly and noticed female posters trend into two categories. Most of them vacillate between the two categories at least to a small degree but are primarily entrenched in one category more than the other.

    Category 1. Repulsive angry hussy hard up usually obese bitter ugly bitch who never has, isn’t and never ever will get alpha fucked and she knows it. These type just out and out hate all men because they cannot attract the men they want and will die bitter and completely unsatisfied. They are recognized by their incessant frivolous psychological attacks that work well on girls but not men. CA and insanity are perfect specimens of this type.

    Category 2. Somewhat or reasonably attractive broad who has had some slight semblance of alpha fuck but not really because she is too chicken shit to let herself go and instead settles for beta fuck rather than face her fear of real intimacy. Members of this category are usually recognized by their faked concern for men and the human condition. They usually include superstition to advance their chicanery. They are trying to negotiate control of alpha fuck by offering a feigned “olive branch” of female nurture that no real alpha desires and they do not realize a real alpha has no need for it. Dragonfly tattoo is a prime example.

    Women in both categories are desperate for alpha fuck. Category 1 women may as well commit suicide, an alpha will never touch one of those because his options far exceed her pathetic level. Members of category 2 will likely maintain their condition due to personal fears rather than absolute lack of opportunity.

    1. @Not Born This Morning

      “Repulsive angry hussy hard up usually obese bitter ugly bitch who never has, isn’t and never ever will get alpha fucked and she knows it. These type just out and out hate all men because they cannot attract the men they want and will die bitter and completely unsatisfied.”

      All this from observing that you guys are…angry all the time.

  34. @zdr01dz

    N=1.

    That. Proves. Nothing. You keep thinking it does but it doesn’t. Let me spell it out for you: that was her N before she met me. That’s what you’re failing to get through your head. She hit mid-30s and decided to try for AF because BB was boring and she felt she’d “missed out” by being married in her 20s. You’re trying to act like there’s nothing in AF/BB to describe what happened, but it describes it perfectly. She’s typical. She’s the average woman with an N of 1.

    They certainly do. Most don’t.

    You’re ALMOST there, what you’re missing is this: men cheat to fulfill polygynous impulses. Women cheat to branch swing in an attempt to snag AF or at least snag a better BB. I was not a better BB (he actually makes more than I do) but emotionally, psychologically, physically, and sexually I was in every way a superior specimen. She tried to branch swing to an Alpha. AF/BB perfectly describes the situation for this very average conservatively raised woman with an N of 1.

    That’s what you’re not getting. Most women don’t get the chance to swing hypergamously in their 30s when they’re inclined to do so because they don’t have the opportunities for one reason or another. Given a chance described by what hypergamy wants, they will. Regardless of the damage to children they currently have.

    Women will break the rules for More Alpha than what they’ve got. I’ve watched them do it for me.

  35. @ Badpainter

    Here is what the man-o-sphere misses and I’ll break it down into it’s simplest form.

    Men want to shoot sperm into women. I’m a dad and obviously life is more complicated than that but as far as evolution is concerned that’s our basic strategy.

    Vs.

    Women have breasts that produce milk. They care for children. That’s their basic biological strategy. Getting sperm is effortless and takes nothing more than a glance in the right direction.

    A woman’s evolutionary job is to raise children, not have a boyfriend.

    Men come a distant second to children. Thinking women are focused on AF/BB misses the larger point that we are just a small part of their overall strategy.

    Furthermore motherhood dramatically modifies the AF/BB part of their strategy. You can see it everywhere.

    1. From that study (emphasis mine):
      http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/05/28/beheco.arv064.full.pdf

      It remains the case, however, that many researchers see human ovulation as concealed. Functional hypotheses for concealed ovulation include the promotion of paternal care (Strassmann 1981) or paternity confusion (Hrdy 1979) and argue that concealment enables women to engage in extrapair copulations with males of high genetic quality while retaining paternal investment of a primary bonded partner, and that this is especially likely to occur if the latter is of relatively low genetic quality (e.g., Gangestad and Thornhill 2008; Thornhill and Gangestad 2008; Haselton and Gildersleeve 2011; Gangestad and Haselton 2015).

      Concealed ovulation is a strong indicator of an adaptation meant to accommodate Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. That simple bio-chemical truth means it’s AF/BB before and after a woman becomes a mother.

  36. Furthermore motherhood dramatically modifies the AF/BB part of their strategy.

    No, the trappings of motherhood modify it. External forces modify it. Not her internal drivers.

    For reasons such as: societal attitudes against cheating discouraging guys from offering her the opportunity, her declining looks as she ages, the fact that she and her husband live in a house in the very unconnected burbs instead of downtown where all the singles live, for the fact that she’s too busy to even run in to guys, for the fact that a baby stroller is the best way to turn a single guy off… hundreds of little external factors get in the way of an impulse that doesn’t go away just because she popped out a kid. Hypergamy is still there, she just lacks opportunities to indulge for some reason(s).

    It’s not motherhood somehow suppressing her innate drives. It’s external factors getting in the way of them.

  37. “All this from observing that you guys are…angry all the time”

    This is what you resort to as you try to make your condition more bearable for yourself.

  38. “A woman’s evolutionary job is to raise children, not have a boyfriend.”

    Wrong: A woman’s evolutionary job is to gestate and birth children. They only need to be raised to the age of minimal self sufficiency, about 5 years, and only need to live long enough to reproduce, 13-18 years.

    Again this whole argument makes no practical difference in the real world.

  39. @ Sun Wukong

    Most women don’t get the chance to swing hypergamously in their 30s when they’re inclined to do so because they don’t have the opportunities for one reason or another. Given a chance described by what hypergamy wants, they will. Regardless of the damage to children they currently have.

    Here is the deeper story.

    100% of women can cheat by simply making eye contact with men. Every single fat, 40 year old mother can cheat if she wants to. There is no limit to the amount of NSA sex she can get every night of the week. And she can get it from men quite high on the food chain. Alphas. There are plenty of pictures to prove that.

    If just about every woman can sleep with a movie star, race car driver, politician etc. why don’t they? Because AF/BB isn’t their focus.

    The motherhood instinct explains the restraint and cautious behavior that is typical of most women.

  40. Getting any old sperm is effortless, yes, getting alpha sperm not completely so. There’s competitiveness among women for access to that sperm — and that’s obvious to anyone with open eyes.

    Look, AF and BB are what enable motherhood to begin with. A woman can’t get to optimized motherhood without very good genes and resources. And so women look to optimize both of those elements to optimize motherhood. It really isn’t complex. The problem is sourcing both optimally in one man is hard — it’s close to winning the lottery for a woman. So they either compromise or, more commonly, do it in a series until the time with AF runs out and none of the “relationships” with AFs go anywhere, such that she ends up switching lanes and going for BB.

    Sure, are there some women who opt to marry earlier to some beta schlub because they want to have children early? Sure, but that’s extremely outside the norm nationally (look at national average marriage age), so it’s an outlierish situation. Most women are doing AF until the mid 20s at least and then lane changing to BB. Both AF and BB represent different ways of getting what a woman needs to become a mother, so they both flow into motherhood in an existential sense, but as I explained above, in a society where sex and reproduction have been split, you have women pursuing their genetic drive (which is for alpha sperm/genes) in a context where they have no intention of getting pregnant, and doing that for years. It’s a new situation. Motherhood is “eventual” and not what most women sub-28 want.

  41. “This is what you resort to as you try to make your condition more bearable for yourself.”

    Well she was on the radio, and has status! so clearly we’re angry.

  42. @ Rollo Tomassi

    Functional hypotheses for concealed ovulation include the promotion of paternal care (Strassmann 1981) or paternity confusion (Hrdy 1979) and argue that concealment enables women to engage in extrapair copulations with males of high genetic quality while retaining paternal investment of a primary bonded partner, and that this is especially likely to occur if the latter is of relatively low genetic quality

    I’m in 100% agreement that strategy exists. But it’s the “let’s go for 2 points instead of the extra point” strategy.

    Most women kick it through the uprights for 1 point. Some guy for 2.

    1. Droid, the studies simply don’t support your assertions. If you’re willing to accept the facts about Estrus, Concealed Ovulation and women’s mate preferences changing across their menstrual cycle (Ovulatory Shift), you can’t conclude that once a woman gives birth she’s exempt from those biological realities or the sexual strategy (Hypergamy) that is a direct extension of their influences.

      Changes in women’s feelings about their romantic relationships across the ovulatory cycle

  43. Charlotte –

    You are uncomfortable with your condition and my accurate description of you but your condition and my observation of you doesn’t automatically make me angry. You can distort an interpretation of my description of you by attempting to conflate it with anger. Your distortion may make you feel better by self delusion, but you cannot change reality.

  44. Concealed ovulation is a strong indicator of an adaptation meant to accommodate Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. That simple bio-chemical truth means it’s AF/BB before and after a woman becomes a mother.

    Exactly, Rollo.

    Humans are rare in having a concealed estrus. Almost certainly this is a adaptation to favor the sex which features it — the human female. In this case, it permits the dual strategy, by encouraging the woman to be attracted to superior genetic men for sex during estrus, while concealing the fact that she is in estrus from her investment/bond partner who has worse genes, relatively speaking. She gets her AF and her BB, and the BB is none the wiser. It’s actually an elegant adaptation.

  45. “She gets her AF and her BB, and the BB is none the wiser. It’s actually an elegant adaptation.”

    In the abstract yes. For the individual BB not so much.

  46. I think this is the disconnect.

    One person correctly points out that gravity is a force in the universe. And he’s right.

    Another guy points out that electromagnetism is also a force in the universe. He doesn’t disagree that gravity also exists.

  47. @zdr01dz

    One person rationally observes and accurately describes behavior.

    Another guy clings to mommy fantasies and uses any far flung useless analogy he can to support his personal claim to that fantasy.

  48. If just about every woman can sleep with a movie star, race car driver, politician etc. why don’t they? Because AF/BB isn’t their focus.

    No, it’s because they can’t. They’re not hot enough, or live too far away, or they’re too old, or they just never have the opportunity, or a million other reasons it never happens. They all want better. They can’t all have it.

    You’re really burying your head in the sand here if you think your wife has never once looked at a much hotter, richer guy than you and said “If only…” but then realized thing X (whatever it might be in her case) is in the way. That subroutine is always running in her head, just like you and I out walking around a college campus would be thinking the whole time about what each cute little 18 year old would look like bouncing in our laps.

    It doesn’t turn off just because she becomes a mom, otherwise the human species wouldn’t be here. Women wouldn’t have produced enough children to survive attrition in nature.

  49. To put it this way: parenthood might be the overarching meta-goal of intersexual relations to human beings as a species, but hypergamy is the actual motivator for the woman, and children are merely a consequence of it. If a woman had no knowledge of where children came from, she’d still feel hypergamous urges. To the individual woman, hypergamy is the force to drive becoming a mother. Not the other way ’round.

    1. @Not Born this Morning
      “Members of category 2 will likely maintain their condition due to personal fears rather than absolute lack of opportunity.”

      Huge amount of stress and attack growing up from this.

      “but you cannot change reality.”
      Everyday I am reminded of my own faults and slowly changing. Not angry just slowly realizing I “lived” in a world that wanted me dead. A world where I was told I didn’t matter a world I tried to save as a child that wasn’t interested in being saved.
      I am a weird human being.

      “Human estrus is more obvious to some males than others….”

      I wonder if I where to sit on a bunch with you and see woman walk by if I would do a decent job pointing that out if you already knew the Answers?
      I remember growing up and changing my behavior when my sisters would be an their period. I remember giving lots of chocolate to avoid attacks and it did calm them down somewhat but not so much when they really wanted to play sexually.

      @Sun Wukong
      “It’s external factors getting in the way of them.”
      One I see is religion I grew up with.

      “They all want better. They can’t all have it.” Spot the fuck on…

      “but hypergamy is the actual motivator for the woman, and children are merely a consequence of it. If a woman had no knowledge of where children came from, she’d still feel hypergamous urges. To the individual woman, hypergamy is the force to drive becoming a mother. ”

      My mom had a visitor and she was explained to him how she had my dad drive her to the airport to fly somewhere and meet another weathiler male suitor. My mother was explaining how my farther wasn’t her first choice. I was over hearing the conversation. I smiled in profound sadness because my dads anger in a way came from realizing that he wasn’t the first. He asked my mom 15 times for marriage my dad is beta I don’t mind that. I do mind my mother dehumanizing him in front of me and opening up about how much my farther idealized her. I also feel sad to admit that my mother knew I was a mistake because apparently after having two sisters my dad didn’t put the condom on well an hear I am. What hurts so much is hearing my mom openly admit that she never appreciated the very things I was told to respect in the most disgusting blue pill human environment possible to kill a male in.

      @Charlotte Allen
      “All this from observing that you guys are…angry all the time.”

      I don’t think so I think it’s aggression but not anger. I think it’s more of being somewhere without censorship and shame for some since of social upheaval.

      @Badpainter

      “Wrong: A woman’s evolutionary job is to gestate and birth children. They only need to be raised to the age of minimal self sufficiency, about 5 years, and only need to live long enough to reproduce, 13-18 years.”

      That speaks to almost the dawn of humanity. Especially during the Middle Ages.

      “In the abstract yes. For the individual BB not so much.”
      Alpha is a mindset alpha is a mindset. Keep telling myself it’s alright…

      @Droid
      “The motherhood instinct explains the restraint and cautious behavior that is typical of most women.”

      Droid I have almost killed twice for thinking that way. I am not sure you have ever seen a woman fight another female for access to his sperm for sex before motherhood.

      @Novaseeker
      “Getting any old sperm is effortless, yes, getting alpha sperm not completely so. There’s competitiveness among women for access to that sperm — and that’s obvious to anyone with open eyes.”

      Holy hell high school comes to mind.

      “in a society where sex and reproduction have been split, you have women pursuing their genetic drive (which is for alpha sperm/genes) in a context where they have no intention of getting pregnant, and doing that for years. ”

      Both my sisters have blatantly proved that to me.

      “the human female. In this case, it permits the dual strategy, by encouraging the woman to be attracted to superior genetic men for sex during estrus, while concealing the fact that she is in estrus from her investment/bond partner who has worse genes, relatively speaking. She gets her AF and her BB, and the BB is none the wiser. It’s actually an elegant adaptation.”

      The way you just wrote that is virtual poetry. It’s as if you took out drama and placed numbers to put a smile of soothing confidence on my face. Thanks for sharing your observation.

      “Another guy clings to mommy fantasies and uses any far flung useless analogy he can to support his personal claim to that fantasy.”
      That’s a good observation because I did that for such a long part of my existence.

      @Rollo
      Was wondering about setting up a donate thing for your greyhounds for each new post kinda what the illumitableman does now with his site.

  50. “If a woman had no knowledge of where children came from . . .”

    There are animals that have thousands of children, and never even know it.

  51. “Motherhood instinct” my ass.
    Women have kids because they make more money out of them+to have them look after her.

    Let say a woman have kids with ugly/wealthy man then she meets a handsome wealthy guy, she divorces ugly/wealthy, she takes the kids and she marry good looking/wealthy and have more kids.

    I met that woman in real live last week.
    Loves kids my ass.

  52. one of my plates that is absolutely obsessed with me, has a 4 y/o kid.

    I give her one night a week with me (at the most).

    she overtly expressed her desire to see me 6 nights a week and her kid just 1 night a week.

    I think she was only half joking.

  53. Ps
    That woman I met briefly through a gay real state who told me her story and I started to explain to him about AF/BB and he was very interested to know about the manosphere.

    Why is gay men are more able to recognize the truth about women?

  54. “Why is gay men are more able to recognize the truth about women?”

    They have no investment in not recognizing it.

  55. @rugby

    Just google the greyhound rescue(s) in your state. My state has six that I know of. I’ve donated to Rollo’s linked GH rescue in FL and I’ve donated to four in my own home state on behalf of TRM.

  56. @’Charlotte’,

    “All this from observing that you guys are…angry all the time.”

    Well, not ALL the time…we do take time out to laugh at you.

    @Droidz

    Every single fat, 40 year old mother can cheat if she wants to. There is no limit to the amount of NSA sex she can get every night of the week. And she can get it from men quite high on the food chain. Alphas.

    Ah…

    huh…

    And in your world, do the rivers run with chocolate, and does it rain diamonds and is the Shire still green, Mr. Frodo?

    There are plenty of pictures to prove that.

    Yes, yes. We all aware of the huge amount of amateur hot guy with fat 40 year old single mother porn out there. No need to go pointing it out.

    If just about every woman can sleep with a movie star, race car driver, politician etc. why don’t they?

    Mmmmm, mayyybeee because they can’t?

    The motherhood instinct explains the restraint and cautious behavior that is typical of most women.

    Uh, you guys do remember my earlier post about not trying to argue with crazy, right?

    Droidz is either Ker-RAZZEEE, or a Troll on steroids to put out this sort of delusional mess.

    Scary that people like this vote. Scary that people like this walk around unattended.

    1. @Mr T
      Will look up the idol
      “Why is gay men are more able to recognize the truth about women?”
      @KFG and stuttie
      They are both really spot on.
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilg6JzzB5T4
      This comes to mind
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PWTptbb0vB4
      Suppose just getting it isn’t a big deal for a gay male. So they don’t need the confusing messages.
      @The Diplomat
      Will do. One of my goals is getting a german sheperd. Always loved those dogs.

    2. Every single fat, 40 year old mother can cheat if she wants to. There is no limit to the amount of NSA sex she can get every night of the week. And she can get it from men quite high on the food chain.

      Then why is the feminine question of our age “where have all the good men gone?”

      One would think they could simply spread their legs enough and statistically one of those guys should be a ‘good guy’, right?

  57. You know, having read through the 1,300+ posts here…

    Okay, I’ll admit I skimmed a bit…

    Anyway, reading through the rainbow of crazy on display from the Troll brigades, I thought I would post what is probably my favorite poems, not only for the way it is written, but what it has to say.

    Bottom line, it sums up the cycles of history where after years of progress and advancement, really, REALLY stupid ideas begin to take hold, become dominant, and then…well, frankly, shit frankly goes to hell.

    There is a lot of blood and death and ruin, both the stupid and not stupid pay the price, and when the society (what remains) has re-learned the tough lessons, the cycle begins all over again.

    Enjoy…

    The Gods of the Copybook Headings

    AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
    I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
    Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

    We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
    That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
    But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
    So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

    We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
    Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
    But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
    That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

    With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
    They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
    They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
    So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

    When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
    They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
    But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “Stick to the Devil you know.”

    On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
    (Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
    Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “The Wages of Sin is Death.”

    In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
    By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
    But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”

    Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
    And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
    That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

    As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
    There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
    That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
    And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

    And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
    When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
    As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
    The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

  58. @ all

    Let’s boil this down to what the problem is and why it matters.

    From a male perspective female “companionship” is the goal. You might define that as 3 input sex or sharing mushy, love poetry. But no matter what your definition of companionship is it comes back to time spent with a woman. That’s what we want.

    So it makes sense in our minds that if women are our focus we must be their focus. This is mostly wrong.

    The main focus of an AF/BB dominated woman is men, boyfriends & cute guys at the SuperTarget. Children are less important or expendable. Although we see that behavior it isn’t dominant.

    The main focus of a Motherhood dominated woman is children. Men are less important or expendable. Do women put their kids in front of their husbands (or pets)? All the time. Do woman treat men as expendable assets? You bet. Are women interested in casual sex? Most aren’t. Ashley Madison accounts are offered to women for free for a reason. And you have to ask yourself if AF/BB is dominant why would any woman have kids knowing that it will permanently crater her SMV and wreck her game? The reason is because AF/BB isn’t her focus in the first place. Baby rabies isn’t just a myth.

    This is the takeaway. From a male perspective women are the whole book. From a female perspective men are only one chapter in a larger story.

    We aren’t the same.

  59. Gay men are the original Redpillers.
    Almost all the gay men I met in the past (don’t get me wrong) told me how repulsive women’s bodies are and they all complaint about women, I even witnessed an argument between a lesbian and a gay man (both were designers), ,,what a fight it was, he threw at her the worst words in the dictionary (and so did she).
    The hidden dislike that gay men have towards women is so deep and hidden like the holly Grail.
    And yet to see them all ganging up against the angry / misogynist men is all but IRONY.

  60. I think a point needs clarifying here.

    Droidz, I’m interpreting you as saying that the ‘motherhood’ or caring instinct is a kinda perpetul background drive/desire/impulse that women have. It stays fairly constant, and takes the reigns or falls back based upon what other impulses or incentives exist.

    I think a lot of other commentators are interpreting it differently – to mean that, once a woman has a child, a ‘motherhood instinct’ just kicks in and takes over, becoming a force in some cases enough to override AF/BB. Hence all the citing of women acting on AF in spite of having children, of mothers still having an ovulatory shift in sexual preferences.

    If you’re arguing the first position, I (cautiously) agree – though I think you may be implying quite a bit more weight to it than I’m comfortable with. If you’re implying the second, I think that’s horseshit.

    I do think women have an instinct to bond with/fawn over small cute things that men don’t have to the same degree. It kicks in when something small, cute, and helpless is in front of them, so long as no more pressing concern exists. There is also a strong anxiety that kicks in if that thing is threatened – kind of a shadow of the impulse men feel to protect women and children.

    But I don’t think this instinct kicks in in any particularly special way when a woman has a child. It doesn’t change her other instincts. It’s just, now there happens to be a small helpless cute thing around a whole lot, so until it goes to daycare she feels that impulse more often just by probability. Like how I’d feel an impulse to fuck somewhat more often if I work in an environment full of pretty nubile young women. Which I do, damn me.

  61. @ Rollo Tomassi
    One would think they could simply spread their legs enough and statistically one of those guys should be a ‘good guy’, right?

    The price of sex for women is a glance that lasts a half second longer than normal. We’ll take it from there.

    However scoring an LTR lock-down on a good man is quite an effort and an accomplishment.

  62. you know how to know when a man’s N count is 3or4?

    A, It’s when he argues against AF/BB.

    B, He was mama’s boy

    C,He doesn’t have sisters.

    The correct answer is:

    All the above.

    1. Having access isn’t the same as accessing.

      The main focus of an AF/BB dominated woman is men, boyfriends & cute guys at the SuperTarget.

      What you’re attempting to do here is separate the “good girls” BB mothers, from the “bad girls” AF slutty carousel riders.

      The problem with that is the good girl you thought would make a great mom at 29, was the bad girl slut fucking the hot guy in the foam cannon party on spring break at 18.

      They’re the same woman. You may want to think moms are the “Quality Women”, but so did this guy:
      http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/

      1. @Seraph
        That was wonderful
        Check this book out
        http://www.amazon.com/The-Cleft-Novel-Doris-Lessing/dp/0060834870

        @Droid
        “But no matter what your definition of companionship is it comes back to time spent with a woman. That’s what we want.”
        Agreed

        It’s what Rollo said
        “The problem with that is the good girl you thought would make a great mom at 29, wasthe bad girl slut fucking the hot guy in the foam cannon party on spring break at 18.
        They’re the same woman. You may want to think moms are the “Quality Women”, but so did this guy:
        http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/

        Ive seen mothers become sexual with me mergers of my team at rugby events who probably got laid with my scrum half.

        @Forge the sky
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCiXd6oXh0
        Nubile environment and temptation

        @Mr T
        Best example of a women’s fury
        http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ATQ_Qi5Pzrw
        Gay male director speaking about human behavior.
        I grew up with Medea…

        I had sisters and I was a perverse mothers boy. In way kinda like Norman Bates

        @Droid
        “However scoring an LTR lock-down on a good man is quite an effort and an accomplishment.”
        Could that apply to women who aren’t mothers yet as well?

  63. Forge, your over explaining.

    Zdroid isn’t getting laid because his wife is spending more parental investment into his children rather than fucking him.

    I’ve been there done that.

    My wife is scared to have sex with me when the children are in the house which is only occasionally now. Empty nest for two years.

    Mothers caring for offspring is not primary if the male is alpha enough to get the partner to want to do him.

    Motherhood instinct is an excuse for the woman who is married to not have sex. It is not subtle.

    If I was Zdroid I would have ego investment in my ideas too.

    How bout a lack of internecine bullshit on TRM?

  64. @ Forge the Sky

    Droidz, I’m interpreting you as saying that the ‘motherhood’ or caring instinct is a kinda perpetul background drive/desire/impulse that women have. It stays fairly constant, and takes the reigns or falls back based upon what other impulses or incentives exist.

    Exactly.
    AF = acquire good genes
    BB = gather resources
    Motherhood = raise child

    Those 3 instincts describe the female reproductive process and they are in constant operation. We see these behaviors every day.

  65. @Forge

    Like how I’d feel an impulse to fuck somewhat more often if I work in an environment full of pretty nubile young women. Which I do, damn me.

    Dude I am razor focused at work. I’ve not had the slightest boner there… ever. My employer only employs the brightest female engineers it can find, which means they’re all troll level ugly.

  66. Case 1:
    Charlotte Allen’s husband go out on the weekend, meets Scarlet Johanson and she asks him to go home with her, do you think he’d say no!.

    Case 2:
    Insanity goes out at night, runs into Brad Pitt, now do you think she asks him to fuck her before he asks her?

  67. @ sjfrellc

    Mothers caring for offspring is not primary if the male is alpha enough to get the partner to want to do him.

    I see the disconnect. You don’t see the infinitesimally, small value of NSA alpha sex.

    Try this experiment.
    Put together a Tinder profile with some smiling photos of an SMV5 woman. Narrow your interests to high status men. Include the sentence, “looking for fun.”

    Let me know how many offers you get. Each minute.

  68. @ rugby11ljh
    “However scoring an LTR lock-down on a good man is quite an effort and an accomplishment.”
    Could that apply to women who aren’t mothers yet as well?

    Sperm is the cheapest substance in the known universe. Women almost always want the LTR lock-down. They’ll use sex to get it.

    1. @Droid
      My sperm is the most expensive thing in the universe.
      “women gather resources to ensure the long term security of their investing in being a mother.”
      I’ve seen women shame me for not getting them resources. I.E finish my LMT license

  69. The prudence of performance will continue into her (beloved) kids and if one of the “beloved” kids fail to perform, ,well you know the rest.

  70. @ Rollo Tomassi

    What you’re attempting to do here is separate the “good girls” BB mothers, from the “bad girls” AF slutty carousel riders. The problem with that is the good girl you thought would make a great mom at 29, was the bad girl slut fucking the hot guy in the foam cannon party on spring break at 18.

    You are 100% correct. We absolutely see that behavior. But not every girl is a slut at age 18. Probably not even most.

    I assume you’re a good looking guy and your wife is pretty. Your writing indicates that you are intelligent and so statistically speaking your wife is also intelligent. Your income is in the upper 20% and life is easy. Your daughter has all these advantages. I’m willing to bet she is intelligent and pretty just like her mother.

    Add up all of these positives (and assuming she is mentally healthy) she’ll get to pick what she wants in a man. I’m willing to bet that’s an LTR. Maybe I’m wrong but I doubt it. Chicks want the lock-down.

  71. Jesus, this is a slaughter. I’m glad I’m in the stands for this one.

    Droid, you’re down 35-0, and your first string QB just broke his hip.

    You’ve got no argument, yet you’re clinging to whatever you can get your hands on. Just stop.

  72. I really shouldn’t read articles like that. I start seeing her words and shitty attitude across the face of every woman I approach in public. It ain’t pretty. I wind up just having a couple beers and going home. No HB6 is worth that kind of grief, but they sure think they are.

  73. @ Rollo
    And my daughter and wife are equally as influenced by AFBB as every other woman with a heartbeat (both our mothers included)

    Every woman has AF and BB, but it’s not the whole story. Probably not even most of it.

    If your wife wanted strange AF she could go out tonight and get it. But she doesn’t. It’s not that interesting to her.

    Shoes might be a different story.

  74. @zdr01dz

    She is. That’s my point. If a HB6 ain’t worth it, an HB3 like her damn sure ain’t.

    1. @Droid
      “If there’s a silver lining to this it’s that this post-marriage Epiphany Phase generally happens earlier in a man’s life. If he’s made a lot of his potential up to then, and the divorce wasn’t too devastating, he’s in a far better position as far as life stage is concerned ” From Rollo

  75. @ Sun Wukong

    Ah….. ok. haha

    I’m 45 and if I had to work for sex I just couldn’t make myself do it. I’m not going to amuse a vapid, HB6 all night to score maybe 30 minutes of condom sex. Forget it. I get the MGTOW guys.

  76. I read all the comments, and I don’t think I’m dumb or RP ignorant, and I guess I’m still not sure I understand how this is more than an argument of degrees and precedence. Women have this impulse to fuss over adorable things that men don’t have to the same degree, yes?

    Example – my (young) sister respects my father more than she does anyone else. One time she got a perfume – chose it carefully – and he didn’t like it. She couldn’t wear it after that, even when he wasn’t around. It just distressed her too much. Her fundamental reaction to the smell changed.

    Today, my father shattered his clavicle in an ATV accident; this is very bad as he (in great part) works as a chiropractor and needs both hands to do so. Everyone is a bit worried.

    She helped with all the necessary hospital stuff, driving, and logistics, and finally he’s back home and she’s about to go to bed. She gives hugs and goodnight wishes to everyone, spends a bit of extra time with him, and then comes the dog. Small, fluffy white thing.

    Fifteen. Minutes. of hugging, coddling, baby talk, ‘love you’s’ before she can be peeled away to go to bed. More a teddy bear than something to be independently respected? Yes. A real phenomenon? Also yes.

    (the girls seem to be mostly interested in what the dog can do for them – ‘I want to cuddle him!’ – regardless of what the dog wants. And then they wonder why he runs from them. The guys in the family wonder what the dog needs/wants and give that a little thought before acting upon it. Interesting. Also interesting, helpless babies mostly need to be fed and held, they don’t have any volition yet.)

    Back to my sister. If some alpha dude was in the room that she thought she had a chance with, I’m sure her attention would have been very elsewhere. It doesn’t interfere with that impulse at all, and seems to have very little impact on a girl’s overall actions. And it’s kinda irrelevant from a man’s life plan perspective. But I mean.

    Isn’t there something there?

    Is that just a weaker form of what Droidz is saying? What’s the score?

  77. @ Forge the Sky

    Back to my sister. If some alpha dude was in the room that she thought she had a chance with, I’m sure her attention would have been very elsewhere. It doesn’t interfere with that impulse at all, and seems to have very little impact on a girl’s overall actions. And it’s kinda irrelevant from a man’s life plan perspective. But I mean.

    I think it comes down to projection. We’d bang a hot chick so we assume they’d bang a hot guy. But it doesn’t work that way because they aren’t the same.

    We make babies. Chicks raise them. Massive difference in focus.

  78. @ Rollo Tomassi

    You may or may not find this interesting in regards to Susan Walsh.

    Several months ago when I first learned about the man-o-sphere somebody mentioned Susan Walsh on RM. I followed a link and went to an article on her site. It was something about problems with M/F relationships. In a friendly tone I wrote that part of the problem was the obesity epidemic. On the spot she booted me. One post and I was out.

    So I got the boot and a few months later she became inspired by my thinking. HAHA!

    Bitch.

  79. I finally got a bit of time and put together a quick rough edit of the first hour of recording we did for The Man Table last month. I’ve been so busy I didn’t realize how long it had been. Basically nothing’s been cut out of that since I was having to learn how to use the audio software. Just adjusted levels some, added opening music and intermission music, but haven’t done the second half yet since it’s going to be a monster to fix. (I’m really not sure if I’m even going to do it; still debating if it’s worth trying to edit 3 hours of audio down)

    I’ve gone ahead and posted it here. Grab it and feel free to lambast me, Forge, Hobbes, and sjfrellc all you like.

  80. Dunno Droidz, human sex impulses seem to rule far more than any proposed natalist instinct. Nurturing seems to operate less as a base instinct than as a proclivity or interest even in women.

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