Last week saw the publication of the latest paper by Dr. Steven W. Gangestad and Dr. Martie Hasselton titled Human Estrus: Implications for Relationship Science. Anyone who’s read the Rational Male for more than a year is probably familiar with my citing Dr. Hasselton in various posts (her catalog of research has been part of my sidebar links since I began RM), but both she and Dr. Gangstad are among the foremost notable researchers in the areas of human sexuality and applied evolutionary psychology. For this week’s post I’ll be riffing on what this paper proposes with regard to a condition of estrus in women.
In the introduction section of The Rational Male I relate a story of how in my Red Pill formative years I came to be a connector of dots so to speak. While I was studying behavioral psychology and personality studies a great many issues jumped out at me with regards to how many of the principle of behavioral psychology could be (and were already being) applied to intersexual relations. For instance, the basic concepts of intermittent reinforcement and behavioral modification seemed to me an obvious and learned practice of women in achieving some behavioral effect on men by periodically rewarding (reinforcing) them with sex ‘intermittently’. Operant conditioning and establishing operations also dovetailed seamlessly into the Red Pill concepts and awareness I’d been developing for several years prior to finishing my degree.
Since then the ideas I formed have naturally become more complex than these simple foundations, but what I only learned by error was how thoroughly disconnected both students and my teachers were with what I saw as obvious connections. I met obstinate resistance to flat denial when I wrote papers or gave a dissertation about the interplay between the foundations of behaviorism and interpersonal relationships. It was one thing to propose that men would use various aspects to their own advantage, but it was offensive to suggest that women would commonly use behavioral modification techniques to achieve their Hypergamous ends.
This peer resistance was especially adamant when I would suggest that women had a subconscious pre-knowledge (based on collective female experience) of these techniques. I never thought I had brass balls for broaching uncomfortable considerations like this – I honestly, and probably naively, assumed that what I was proposing had already been considered by academia long before I’d come to it.
I was actually introduced to the work of Dr. Hasselton during this time, and along with Dr. Warren Farrell, she’s gone on to become one of my go-to sources in respect to the connection between contemporary behavioral ‘dots’ with theories of practical evolved function in intersexual dynamics. I owe much of what I propose on Rational Male to this interplay, and while I doubt Hasselton would agree with all of what I or the manosphere propose, I have to credit her and her colleague’s work for providing me many of the dots I connect.
I understand that there are still evo-psych skeptics in the manosphere, but I find that much of what passes for their piecemeal “skepticism” is generally rooted in a desire to stubbornly cling to comforting Blue Pill idealisms. That said, I’d never ask any reader to take what I propose here on faith, but personally I’ve found that the questions proposed by evo-psych reflect many of the observations I had in my college days.
Hypergamous Duplicity
For the social theater of the Feminine Imperative, one of the more galling developments in psychological studies to come out of the past fifteen years has been the rise of evolutionary psychology. The natural pivot for the Imperative in dealing with evo-psych has been to write off any concept unflattering to the feminine as being speculative or proving a biased positive (by “misogynistic” researchers of course), while gladly endorsing and cherry-picking any and all evo-psych premises that reinforce the feminine or confirm a positive feminine-primacy.
Up until the past two years or so, there was a staunch resistance to the concept of Hypergamy (know as sexual pluralism in evo-psych) and the dual natures of women’s sexual strategy. Before then the idea of Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks was dismissed as biased, sociologically based and any biological implications or incentives for Hypergamy were downplayed as inconclusive by a feminine-centric media.
However the recent embrace of Open Hypergamy and “Sandbergism” of the last two years has set this narrative on its head, and the empowered women who found the idea of their own sexual pluralism so distasteful are now openly endorsing, if not proudly relishing, their roles in a new empowerment of Hypergamous duplicity.
Your Beta qualities are officially worthless to today’s women:
For those of you that aren’t aware, women now are often out earning men and more of them receive college degrees than men. As of now there aren’t really any programs to help guys out. Assuming this trend continues what do you think will happen to dating? I think that attractive women, will have their pick regardless.
However, for a lot of women, trying to lock down a guy in college will be more of a big deal. I don’t think hook up culture will disappear, but will definitely decrease.
With the exception with my current boyfriend, I have always earned more than any guy I have dated. It has never been an issue. I just don’t have to think about their financials, my attraction is based on their looks and personality. I am guessing the future will be more of that.
I thought this TRP subred was an interesting contrast to the Estrus theory proposed in the Gangstad-Hasselton paper (comments were good too). Yes, the woman is more than a bit gender-egotistical, and yes her triumphalism about the state of women in college and their earning is built on a foundation of sand, but lets strip this away for a moment. The greater importance to her in relating this, and every woman embracing open Hypergamy, is the prospect of better optimizing the dual nature of her sexual strategy.
In many a prior post I’ve detailed the rationales women will apply to their sexual pluralism and the social conventions they rely upon to keep men ignorant of them until such a time (or not) that they can best consolidate on that dualism. Where before that strategy was one of subtle manipulation and pretty lies to keep Betas-In-Waiting ready to be providers after the Alpha Fucks decline at 30, the strategy now is one of such utter ego-confidence in feminine social primacy that women gleefully declare “I’m not just gonna have my cake and eat it too, I’m getting mine with sprinkles and chocolate syrup” with regard to Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks.
The Estrus Connection
For all of the ubiquitous handwringing the manosphere imparts to the social implications of today’s Open Hypergamy, it’s important to consider the biological underpinnings that motivate this self-interested conceit.
From Human Estrus: Implications for Relationship Science:
In the vast majority of mammalian species, females experience classic estrus or heat: a discrete period of sexual receptivity – welcoming male advances – and proceptivity – actively seeking sex – confined to a few days just prior to ovulation, the fertile window. Only at this time, after all, do females require sex to conceive offspring. The primate order is exceptional. Although prosimians (e.g., lemurs, tarsiers) exhibit classic estrus, the vast majority of simian primates (monkeys and apes) are sexually active for at least several days outside of the fertile period [2]. Humans are an extreme case: Women may be sexually receptive or proceptive any time of the cycle, as well as other nonconceptive periods (e.g., pregnancy).
Do Women Retain a Functionally Distinct Fertile Phase?
Graded sexuality. Women’s sexual activity is not confined to an estrous period. But are women’s sexual interests truly constant across the cycle? Many female primates (e.g., rhesus macaques and marmosets) are often receptive to sexual advances by males outside of the fertile phase, but they initiate sex less [2].
In fact, women’s sexual interests do appear to change across the cycle. Women exhibit greater genital arousal in response to erotica and sexually condition to stimuli more readily during the follicular phase [5-8].
A recent study identified hormonal correlates of these changes by tracking 43 women over time and performing salivary hormone assays [9]. Women’s sexual desire was greater during the fertile window, and was positively related to estradiol levels (which peak just before ovulation), but negatively related to progesterone levels (which rise markedly during the luteal phase).
Changes in the male features that evoke sexual interest. Since the late 1990s, some researchers have argued that what changes most notably across the cycle is not sexual desire per se but, rather, the extent to which women’s sexual interests are evoked by particular male features – specifically, male behavioral and physical features associated with dominance, assertiveness, and developmental robustness. Over 50 studies have examined changes across the cycle in women’s attraction to these male features.
The importance of behavioral features? Whereas preference shifts of major interest early on concerned male physical features (e.g., facial masculinity; scent), several recent studies have focused on women’s reactions to men’s behavior and dispositions. Previous research had found that women find male confidence, even a degree of arrogance, more sexually appealing during the fertile phase [e.g., 15-16]. Recent studies replicate and extend that work, finding not only that fertile-phase women are more sexually attracted to “sexy cad” or behaviorally masculine men (relative to “good dad” or less masculine men), but also that, during the fertile phase, women are more likely to flirt or engage with such men [17,18]. Females of a variety of species, including primates [2], prefer dominant or high ranking males during the fertile phase of their cycles. These males may pass genetic benefits to offspring, as well as, potentially, offer material benefits (e.g., protect offspring). Women’s fertile-phase sexual attraction to behavioral dominance appears to have deep evolutionary roots.
Much of what’s explored here I laid out in Game terms in Your Friend Menstruation over two years ago, but the implications of the behaviors prompted by women’s menstrual cycle and biochemistry strongly imply an estrus-like predictability. This estrous state is a foundational keystone, not just to developing Game, but a keystone to understanding the dynamics behind Hypergamy, women’s dualistic sexual strategy, Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks, and can even be extrapolated into the drive for ensuring feminine social dominance in both overt and covert contexts.
When women embrace a social order founded upon a feminine state of openly revealed Hypergamy they confirm and expose the reality of this estrous state.
Whereas before, in a social order based on concealed Hypergamy, this state could be dismissed as a social construct (and a masculine biased one at that), or one that had only marginal influence to reasoning women with a “higher” human potential. No longer – the confirmation of a true estrus in women via open Hypergamy literally confirms virtually every elementary principle Game has asserted for the past 13 years.
Dual Sexuality
Within the dual sexuality framework, fertile-phase sexuality and non-fertile-phase sexuality possess potentially overlapping but also distinct functions [22,23]. In a number of primate species, extended sexuality – female receptivity and proceptivity at times other than the fertile phase – appears to function to confuse paternity by allowing non-dominant males sexual access [e.g., 24]. These males cannot rule out their own paternity, which might reduce their likelihood of harming a female’s offspring. In humans, by contrast, extended sexuality may function to induce primary pair-bond partners to invest in women and offspring [e.g., 22].
I found this part particularly interesting when you contrast this dynamic with the social resistance that standardized paternity testing has been met with. In a feminine-primary social order based on open Hypergamy, the Feminine Imperative can’t afford not to legislate a mandated cuckoldry. If Beta provider males will not comply with the insurance of a woman’s long-term security (as a result of being made aware of his place in Open Hypergamy) then he must be forced to comply either legally, socially or both. The old order exchange of resources for sexual access and a reasonable assurance of his paternity is replaced by a socialized form of cuckoldry.
Some studies have found that women’s sexual interests in men other than partners are strikingly rare during the luteal phase, relative to the fertile phase [25,26]. Other research has found moderating effects; for example, women who perceive their partners to lack sex appeal experience increased attraction to men other than partners, less satisfaction, and a more critical attitude toward partners, but only when fertile [27,28]. Fertile-phase women in one study were more assertive and focused on their own, as opposed to their partner’s, needs, especially when attracted to men other than partners during that phase [29].
Most research on cycle shifts has been inspired by theory concerning women’s distinctive sexual interests during the fertile phase. One study explicitly sought to understand factors influencing women’s sexual interests during the luteal phase, finding that, at that time, but not during the fertile phase, women initiated sex more with primary partners when they were invested in their relationship more than were male partners [30]. This pattern is consistent with the proposal that extended sexuality functions, in part, to encourage interest from valued male partners. Others have proposed that women’s estrus phase has been modified by pair-bonding.
Initiating sex or being receptive to a primary partner’s sexual interest during the luteal phase (the Beta swing of the cycle) follows when we consider that a woman being sexual during this phase poses the least potential of becoming pregnant while simultaneously (rewarding) reinforcing that primary partner’s continued investment in the pairing with sex (intermittent reinforcement). This is a very important dynamic because it mirrors a larger theme in women’s socio-sexual pluralism – it’s Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks on a biological scale.
Compare this intra-relationship predisposition for Beta sex and contrast it with the larger dynamic of open Hypergamy Alpha Fucks during a woman’s prime fertility window in her peak SMV years, and her post Epiphany Phase necessity to retain a comforting (but decidedly less sexually exciting) Beta provider.
Women’s sexual strategy on a social scale, mirrors her instinctual, estrous sexual strategy on an individual scale.
Cues of Fertility Status
Females across diverse species undergo physical and behavioral changes during estrus that males find attractive: changes in body scents in carnivores, rodents, and some primates; changes in appearance, such as sexual swellings, in baboons and chimpanzees; changes in solicitous behavior in rodents and many primates [2,31] Because women lack obvious cyclic changes, it was widely assumed that cycle shifts in attractiveness were eliminated in humans, perhaps with the evolution of
pair bonding [32].In 1975, a pioneering study documented increased attractiveness of women’s vaginal odors midcycle [33]. A quarter century later, research revealing other detectable fertile-phase changes began to accumulate, including increased attractiveness of women’s upper torso odors, increased vocal pitch and attractiveness, and changes in women’s style of dress and solicitous behaviors [34]. Meta-analysis of this literature confirms that changes across the cycle in women’s attractiveness are
often subtle, but robust (K. Gildersleeve, PhD dissertation, UCLA, 2014).A notable recent study demonstrated that hormones implicated in attractiveness shifts in non-humans also predict attractiveness shifts in humans [35]. Photos, audio clips, and salivary estrogen and progesterone were collected from 202 women at two cycle points. Men rated women’s facial and vocal attractiveness highest when women’s progesterone levels were low and estrogen levels high (characteristic of the follicular phase, and especially the fertile window).
Emerging evidence suggests that these changes affect interactions between males and females. During the fertile window, women report increased jealous behavior by male partners [25,29,36]. A possible mediator of such changes – testosterone – is higher in men after they smell tshirts collected from women on high- than on low-fertility days of the cycle [37; cf. 38]. A recent study examined related phenomena in established relationships by bringing couples into the lab for a close interaction task (e.g., slow dancing) [39]. Following the interaction, male partners viewed images of men who were attractive and described as competitive or unattractive and noncompetitive. Only men in the competitive condition showed increases in testosterone from baseline – and only when tested during their partner’s fertile phase.
What remains less clear is how we can understand shifts in attractiveness from a theoretical perspective. It is unlikely that women evolved to signal their fertility within the cycle to men [22,34]. In fact, the opposite may have occurred – active selection on women to conceal cues of ovulation, which could help to explain weak shifts in attractiveness relative to many species. Concealment might have promoted extended sexuality with its attendant benefits from investing males, or
facilitated women’s extra-pair mating. Possibly, the subtle physical changes that occur are merely “leaky cues” that persist because fully concealing them suppresses hormone levels in ways that compromise fertility. Behavioral shifts, by contrast, may be tied to increases in women’s sexual interests or motivation to compete with other women for desirable mates [e.g., 40].
Usually after first-time readers have a chance to digest the material I propose in Your Friend Menstruation the first frustration they have is figuring out just how they can ever reliably detect when a woman is in this estrous state. On an instinctual level, most men are already sensitive to these socio-sexual cues, but this presumptuousness of sexual availability is rigorously conditioned out of men by social influence. In other words, most guys are Beta-taught to be ashamed of presuming a woman might be down to fuck as the result of picking up on visual, vocal or body posture cues.
Beyond this perceptiveness, there are also pheromonal triggers as well as behavioral cues during estrus that prompt a mate guarding response in men.
I would however propose that the evolved concealment of an estrus-like state and all of the attendant behaviors that coincide with it are a behavioral mechanic with the purpose of filtering for men with a dominant Alpha capacity to “Just Get It” that a woman is in estrus and thus qualify for her sexual access either proceptively or receptively. Women’s concealed estrus is an evolved aspect of filtering for Alpha Fucks.
In addition, this concealment also aids in determining Beta Bucks for the men she needs (needed) to exchange her sexual access for. A guy who “doesn’t get it” is still useful (or used to be) precisely because he doesn’t understand the dynamics of her cyclic and dualistic sexual strategy. Her seemingly erratic and self-controlled sexual availability becomes the Beta Bucks interest’s intermittent reinforcement for the desired behavior of his parental investment in children that are only indeterminately of his genetic heritage.
Evidence of this intermittent reinforcement can also be observed in what Athol Kay from Married Man Sex Life has described as wives “drip feeding” sex to their husbands. The confines of a committed monogamy in no way preclude the psycho-sexual influences of estrus. Thus placating a less ‘sexy’, but parentally invested man with the reinforcer of infrequent (but not entirely absent) sex becomes a necessity to facilitate the prospect of a future sexual experience with an Alpha while ensuring the security of her Beta.
In closing here I think the importance of how this estrous state influences women on both an individual and social level can’t be stressed enough in contrast to the social embrace of open Hypergamy. The Hypergamy genie is not only out of the bottle, but women are, perhaps against their own interests, embracing the genie with gusto.
Just today Vox posted a quick hit article about how men are discovering that pornography is now preferable to relating with the average woman. In an era of open Hypergamy I don’t believe this is a rationalized preference so much as it’s simply a pragmatic one. Men are rapidly awakening to a Red Pill awareness, even without a formal Red Pill education, and seeing the rewards (the intermittent reinforcement) simply aren’t worth the investment with women who blithely express their expectations of them to assume the role they would have them play in their sexual strategies.
@ All – I will attempt to be nicer. But in this instance, I have a simple question for you all. Are you on the same page with “women are all cheating, lying whores” and with bitchslapping them? While the video is an example of retaliation to aggression, which I have no problem with – that’s not what Minter is saying. It’s not white knighting, it’s about not being a lowlife. Tell me guys, is this who you are? @ M. Simon – Not dignifying the ridiculous, ahistorical “Islamism is Nazism” stuff with an answer. Don’t want to argue (you… Read more »
forgethesky – “Gentlemen, understand this: if your woman ever goes off like this, it’s a sign that you haven’t provided her with a sufficiently strong masculine frame. Beta frame hurts women too.”
Because it is always the man’s fault. ALWAYS. THE. MAN’S. FAULT.
Speaking only for myself I was trained to accept that everything is my fault by virtue of my existance. At this point I no longer give much of damn how my actions or inactions effect others. It might be my fault, but it’s not my problem.
This comment will be off topic for this week’s post, but I just stumbled across an article as a FSU fan that was terribly bothersome to me. http://raleighco.com/writing/rooting-against-fsu-fix-jameis-winston/ The Jameis case has always been interesting to me from a red-pill perspective but that is not really my concern here. My problem with the article is the female writer assuming that we live in a culture of rape and cover ups. She threw around the stat that 97% of rapists don’t spend a day in jail…. horse shit. On a deeper level and even before swallowing the red pill, accusations of… Read more »
@ A Woman – The endorphin hit a man gets from an orgasm is about the same as you get from a shot of heroin. In our prime, we have 20 times the testosterone women have. It’s not crazy to see men as organisms biologically programmed to want to fuck attractive women. The rub is that we are all programmed to want the same high SMV women, and society tells us via oneitis, romance, chivalry etc that the “good guy” will win out and get his dream girl some day. That he should just be a good person and hold… Read more »
Think about this – the Beta’s best reward is a woman who sleeps with him out of obligation. And yet he’s been told that being a beta pussy is what women want. Actually he’s told that “nothing’s sexier”: http://therationalmale.com/2014/06/18/controlling-interests/ “When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone… Read more »
I don’t understand the argument that most men’s sexual choices are in fact more limited than in the past, especially outside of marriage, a frequent RP argument related to the former. It’s an odd way of framing the question, but I think I understand it. It may be the case that an average guy (beta, not alpha, not cad, etc.) gets the occasional lay outside of marriage more than he did in 1900. And that can look like his sexual choices are therefore less limited than in 1900, because he still gets the odd lay every now and then. Okay.… Read more »
I think it was Advocatus Diaboli who stated that with the advent of ubiquitous, free, online hardcore pornography the average Beta male of today has been exposed to more sexual variety and more sexual ‘experiences’ (albeit virtually) than all of the most promiscuous, harem keeping Sultans and Emperors in history.
I don’t think that qualifies as “enjoying” greater sexual opportunities for Betas, but it does gratify a Beta’s sexless condition in a way that no other generation of Beta or even polygynous Alphas before him ever had.
Sexual “opportunity” ≠ sexual “access”.
@Jack
Love is possible. You can love a woman for the complementary role that she plays in your life. In the way that a man can love a horse or a good employee. She in return will make you the absolute center of her universe. That’s the only healthy male-female relationship.
Jack
December 19th, 2014 at 7:47 am
Love is not the same for a man and a woman: read Rollo’s “Women In Love”. And this is going to be hard: “It is best not to love any woman.” It puts you
a. at a disadvantage
b. women don’t like it
Women like bad boys. Women want to be dominated.
There is a lot to study but if you can just accept that it is a good start. Don’t be in a hurry.
@novaseeker Thanks for your response. The feedback here makes more sense to me now.
Badpainter
December 19th, 2014 at 11:38 am
It might be my fault, but it’s not my problem.
I like that. A LOT.
@redlight “yes Love exists! You can love a woman unconditionally and she can love you conditionally.” As funny as you’re being there (I did chuckle when I read it), it’s intellectually dishonest to claim that the difference between how men and women love is the existence of conditions placed on that love. As Rollo mentioned, men are idealistic, women are opportunistic. We still have conditions: – Fat chicks do not get sexual interest or commitment from me. – Cute single moms get no commitment from me. – Bitchy SIWs might get a grudge fuck from me at best if they’re… Read more »
“Gentlemen, understand this: if your woman ever goes off like this, it’s a sign that you haven’t provided her with a sufficiently strong masculine frame. Beta frame hurts women too.” Dinghy without a daggerboard. ‘Bye, and bon voyage. Irreparable wreck, the Flying Dutchwoman of relationships. Next. Any other response will be shit-tested 24/7 till you go insane from the noise. They’ll even demand that you hit them “because you want to, don’t you?”. And try to block the door to stop you leaving (doesn’t work on the ground floor, darlin’). And you’ll be “The Abuser”, for ever and ever. Feets… Read more »
But I would guess that his satisfaction with his marriage and women was low– though maybe not as low as his modern equivalen– just because he was a beta 5, lacking game or alpha traits, lacking understanding that he will always need to perform (per RM’s recent post). You can see a good example of this in 19th century novel like Madame Bovary, in which a higher SMV, af-chasing wife implodes her marriage to a dutiful beta 5 doctor, long before no-fault divorce or cultural feminism. Yes, but this is an insoluble problem in terms of solving it in a… Read more »
I think it was Advocatus Diaboli who stated that with the advent of ubiquitous, free, online hardcore pornography the average Beta male of today has been exposed to more sexual variety and more sexual ‘experiences’ (albeit virtually) than all of the most promiscuous, harem keeping Sultans and Emperors in history. I don’t think that qualifies as “enjoying” greater sexual opportunities for Betas, but it does gratify a Beta’s sexless condition in a way that no other generation of Beta or even polygynous Alphas before him ever had. Sexual “opportunity” ≠ sexual “access”. This is true, although this is also a… Read more »
@Glenn: “in reality, after playing the delayed gratification game, he’s more likely to end up alone, angry and frustrated”
Reminds me of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
The beta strategy first loses out in the sexual arena by trying to use this approach…
Then, adding insult to injury, one way or another they’re stripped of the resources they used their high impulse control to accrue.
Harsh. Patience may be a virtue, but if you stand still too long in nature, you’ll eventually get eaten.
@Rollo Learn this now, you will never achieve contentment or emotional fulfillment in a blue pill context with red pill awareness. You might be able to shorten that to… Learn this now, you will never achieve contentment or emotional fulfillment in a blue pill context. BTW I’ve got “Her” in my Netflix queue. Thanks for the tip! I’ll watch it with my wife. The other day I was forced to tuck my penis between my legs and watch My Fair Lady. Viewed in a red pill context the movie was an amazing display of Hypergamy. At the end of the… Read more »
^^^
If you read any of the classics from feminist hero authors Jane Austin or Emily Bronte you’ll see exactly the same Hypergamy plot in every book they’ve written.
Hypergamy is part of the feminine firmware, it’s been expressed since long before anyone put a name to it.
Hi Rollo. For a month I’ve been trying to have my best friend open his eyes. It was so so so frustrating. I asked him to read your blog and he did, he ordered two copies of your book, one for me too. Now he can see the word!. This morning I get this email from him. I c&p. Here it is: I was thinking on my walk into work this morning about what you said about me being embarrassed if my 3rd marriage were to fail as being my biggest reason for not wanting to leave my 3rd wife.… Read more »
@Mr. T, hit me up via email (on my About page) regarding this
I realized that the only way out is increasing your SMV without caring much about hypergamy. Hypergamy exists as a means to filter out weak genes that are unfit to be passed to the next generation. My current strategy to adapt is; eat well, work out, create money, build my own life social circle and i will get what my SMV can afford. Overshooting beyond what your ‘real value’ will create symptoms of buyers remorse from your female of which she will realize that you were not worth it.Nothing hurts more that instinctual sense of dissatisfaction from a woman.Am glad… Read more »
@Jason,
It’s interesting because this used to be the ‘template’ for men’s planning one’s life under the old social order. I would add to this:
Always keep in mind the ‘template’ Hypergamy has for women and how it involves men’s compliance to achieve its ends – then plan accordingly.
@ manosphere lurker
“Repressed hypergamy gave most men an equal shot at at least one pussy (via marriage or arrangement) or see: assortative mating. So, in this case, most men (dads) were content; Cads, not so much.”
Exactly. Tables have been flipped. And this should allow anybody to understand why Alpha’s in particular are not so interested in “returning to the good old days”. Those days were in fact not so good for alpha’s… they were considered outsiders and they were in the minority. Nowadays beta’s are considered as outsiders and they are in the majority.
@Rolli
How about I ask my friend to contact you instead.
He is at a meeting now.
I’ll wait till he’s done and ask him to email you. Poor guy he is devastated.
Thank you very so much for responding.
I just didn’t know what to do.
“…seeing as how sexually, hypergamy sees the majority of men as unfit.”
Correct again. There is no logic in it – being designated as “beta” according to the female mind, i.e feelings; intuition; illusions; imagination; idealism; fantasy; fairy tales and or “pragmatism”, bears absolutely no resemblance to the reality of any man’s actual worth.
Therefore viewing what is considered as “alpha”, through the eyes of a woman/women – is an illusion.
@ Rollo Don’t you think porn also raises the bar sexually? What about the guys in the past who didn’t know that there was better sex out there? I mean, many people’s N used to be single digits. Could it be that porn only makes a beta’s pain more exquisite and graphic? Could it be a thirst multiplier? Perhaps porn is also why they always want to know details. In the last post’s thread, a link was dropped to a subreddit where a beta was lamenting his superhot wife/gf’s infidelity against him. He made a huge deal of insisting that… Read more »
Badpainter: “Because it is always the man’s fault. ALWAYS. THE. MAN’S. FAULT.”
I don’t disagree with your perspective. I don’t think men have any OBLIGATION whatsoever to provide frame for women. My comment was more a point of game, trying to help other men understand what might be happening and why if they keep finding themselves caught in interminable miserable conversations with women. I’ve been there, I learned: The solution isn’t to listen harder, it’s to develop masculine frame. Or just get out if you don’t want to deal with it.
@ New Yorker
“Love is possible. You can love a woman for the complementary role that she plays in your life. In the way that a man can love a horse or a good employee. She in return will make you the absolute center of her universe. That’s the only healthy male-female relationship.”
Wisest thing ever said.
@ Glenn “@ Rollo Don’t you think porn also raises the bar sexually? What about the guys in the past who didn’t know that there was better sex out there? I mean, many people’s N used to be single digits.” I wonder if this is accurate, in the past mistresses were the norm, as well as prostitution, just look at the founders of our country for example. Certainly we are able to pull up some crazy-ass fetish porn that was never previously accessible to the common man , but there really is a limited percentage of the population who would… Read more »
Don’t you think porn also raises the bar sexually? It also raises the bar for women sexually. Women, especially ones below, say, 35, have been watching more porn than anyone really thinks, Much less than men, but more than ever before. And the kinds of things they are looking at is interesting. There was some data on that someone posted a few months ago. Apparently the two main areas which draw most female eyes are lesbian scenes (which is very unsurprising — I think we all know that most straight women are at least curious about being with another woman,… Read more »
“Women are programmed in every cell in their body to lie, right down to the little hidden ovulation trick that their bodies throw out ” Yes. So many men, raised by women, are blind to this. Like walking through a minefield blindfolded. Take the RP and take off the blindfold. It’s still a minefield, but at least you have a better chance of not getting your ass blown off. “Civilization doesn’t work if *either* sexual strategy is permitted to exercise itself without being checked” Human pair bonding is supposed to be a mutually beneficial, symbiotic relationship. What we have now… Read more »
@ David W – I have no idea how one would quantify it. I just think if the raciest thing most guys saw 50 years ago (not all guys) was Playboy, which I think was most guys, that spending an hour or two on YouPorn might change their POV. But I’m just speculating.
@Glenn, I’ve unfortunately been in a place of desperately wanting to know details of a girl’s sexual past and experience. Even a few months back, during assimilation of the RP. It was a powerful, wretched anxiety I couldn’t seem to shake, as much as I conciously realized learning would be pointless. As I developed and began to care less I realized it was a mate-guarding instinct – an extension of the ruminating and worrying that would posess me about what she was doing, why wasn’t she answering my texts, and so on – when I subconsciously realized she wasn’t treating… Read more »
New Yorker – “You can love a woman for the complementary role that she plays in your life. In the way that a man can love a horse or a good employee.”
Layoffs, and the glue factory when the time comes. Which why what I have experienced as “being in love” I never want to feel that way again.
Women adopt pet names for their boyfriends and husbands for the same reason ranchers never name their livestock.
It hurts less when they go to slaughter.
@forgethesky And my response was due entirely to your phrasing. So I apologize for being a presumptuous ass. I do get your point. But the amount of fault attributed to men is so egregious when I see/hear it stated that way I automatically resist and reject. In fact, and to your point, that has vastly improved my frame. I now realize there few things less consequential and less substantial than a woman’s feelings. If you don’t like ’em wait five minutes, sort of like they say about the weather around here. Worrying about a women’s feels is a beta pathology.… Read more »
Rollo – “It hurts less when they go to slaughter.”
Are you implying something here about a woman’s deeper understanding of her actions?
I won’t say it’s a conscious tendency.
rollo, you are much older than me and have much more experience with life than i do, and i know the purpose of the rational male has always been rationally laying out facts and uncovering basic principles. however one thing i’d like to bring into the conversation is the difference between solid knowledge and good teaching. the fact that you have understood a lot more than most men, especially the ones new to the sphere, automatically leads to them looking to you for guidance and my experience (i do one on one coaching and teaching of mostly young men in… Read more »
@dr seal, one of the inherent weaknesses of having a popular blog is that you’re only as relevant to your readers as your last two posts and their personal investment in your ideas. All of the concerns you’ve expressed in your comment I’ve dealt with in the past. Anger, bitterness, hope, you name it. For the first year and a half of the blog all I blogged about was “constructive” Game technique and the underlying reasons for why they work. In the coming year I’ll get into some Game posts and catch hell for promoting “that PUA shit, c’mon you’re… Read more »
Even Paypal seems to acknowledge (and promote) open hypergamy:
http://img1.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/20396/20396221df0fba265609afcd6b9680f6e8cd9762.png
dr. seal – “i don’t understand for the life of me how people here can actually pine for socio-sexual restraint of women and good old days of social orders where the men were made heads of their household and women would just magically submit.” I am all for people doing whatever the hell they want just so long as they don’t expect me to: 1. Cleanup the mess 2. Pay for damages I didn’t cause 3. Expect me to be empathetic, sympathetic, or non-judgemental So let women be what they are, but let’s stop taxing the men, men they hate… Read more »
@lurker
“Mario is a hurt beta. He reads manosphere blogs and finds Vera was just being a hypergamous cunt. Mario forgets about Vera. Good work, Mario”
Glenn December 19th, 2014 at 11:31 am “I was asking how they account for the power of sexual selection in their feminist ideology? How do they account for the fact that women prefer to breed with men who exude the exact masculine traits they say are problematic?” Glenn, you’re onto something here that ties into rape hysteria. They account for it by denying it. That’s why a lot of these “hypergamous frustration” based false rape accusations are leveled at alpha types. Since they aren’t (in their ideology) attracted to the alphas, then if they had sex with one it must… Read more »
I’m late to this party, but just want add…
Briffault’s Law. Always Briffault’s Law.
Rollo, any chance you can do an upcoming post on how one sided all platonic and not-yet sexual relationships with women are? The classic, a chick will never loan you money, a chick will never take you to the airport, etc. Exploring this dynamic, and how to handle it in terms of game and working it to your advantage
Glenn: re: wanting to know the details. . I can say now, consciously, what I knew then subconsciously: infidelity breaks the “you have the best genes and you are the best provider” acclamation, albeit implicit, of a wife’s vow. The search for details is a typical male response to failure—how can I fix this? . While I do not think the attempt to fix a problem is a beta behavior, the bitterness of infidelity is the realization that the woman embodied the male’s infidelity to himself. Skirting that realization is, in my mind, a beta behavior–the unwillingness to embrace the… Read more »
I have been lurking around here for a few weeks now and am just amazed at the brilliant insights into intergender dynamics. All of the RP concepts ring true and seem to explain so many of my personal experiences and observations. I have also tested many of them out on my wife with stunning success. Although I had my share of burns due to typical beta behavioral errors with females when I was younger, I think I actually Forrest Gumped my way into a pretty good situation. I ended up marrying a high school girlfriend right after college who was… Read more »
Estrous. How I like you when I’m whitetail deer hunting when it is indispensable. Recently I found it is indispensable with married man game. Too bad it took me 24 years into marriage to discover it. Coming up on 25 year old marriage and 50 year old wife (still a WILF) with 20 and 22 y.o. children. My hobbies for the last 18 months have been being a better father to my son (Thank You Jack Donovan “The Way of Men” #INDISPENSABLE). And the other hobby: #AvoidDivorce. My Myers-Briggs type INTJ (like KrauserPUA) (AND I SUPECT Rollo Tomassi is INTJ).… Read more »
@ BC “I’m late to this party, but just want add… Briffault’s Law. Always Briffault’s Law.” Good point – which only confirms why men should not value themselves (their worth) according to (either) the perception of their worth according to women, or according to the biological drives of women (which are purely biological in terms of procreation – but not logical otherwise) – except if you WANT to be involved in a win-lose situation (in today’s world, due to the unbalanced nature of actual rights and laws and the implementation of them, having empowered woman to the extent that they… Read more »
Tam the Bam December 19th, 2014 at 1:06 pm Women. A LOT of them DO want to get hit. I was in a relationship for a while with one like that. She would goad me until I punched her in the arm. Then she was all peace, love, and good vibes. I got sick of it and told her I was NEVER, EVER going to hit her again. She knew I kept my oaths. Never seen a woman so furious in all my life. She kicked me in my azz as I headed out the door, laughing. I subsequently worked… Read more »
Novaseeker
December 19th, 2014 at 1:09 pm
Very good analysis.
Could you expound on this more?
The American upper middle class has come up with an approach which seems to come closer to satisfying the needs/interests of both sexes in a more durable way….
I am so embarrassed to face him, and I am so ashamed of what I have done to this boy. It is why I couldn’t divorce – even once. I just manned/Alphaed up (again) and soldiered on. And I had game since ’62. So in a sense it doesn’t matter when you learn it. You WILL be tested past your limits. It is their nature. I will say one thing – it has been an interesting life. And that was what I wanted more than anything else. Romance, adventure, excitement. And more than a few interesting engineering projects. I can… Read more »
J.J.
December 19th, 2014 at 2:53 pm
Besides the physical there are the pheromones dominance/arrogance generates.
You saw that in the guy who had it all and couldn’t attract women. He suicided. Definitely not an alpha trait in most circumstances.
And I never discuss mine with a woman anymore, only made that mistake a couple of time – when it’s high it only gets you in trouble. I dunno. It seemed like my high N was an attractant for the first mate. I could see it in her body language when we discussed it. “He has had all these others but I AM GOING TO KEEP HIM. And she puts in what ever effort it takes to just barely do that. She actually likes – to a certain extent – when I have a girlfriend. She just LOVES beating the… Read more »
Lets try that again: And I never discuss mine with a woman anymore, only made that mistake a couple of time – when it’s high it only gets you in trouble. I dunno. It seemed like my high N was an attractant for the first mate. I could see it in her body language when we discussed it. “He has had all these others but I AM GOING TO KEEP HIM. And she puts in what ever effort it takes to just barely do that. She actually likes – to a certain extent – when I have a girlfriend. She… Read more »
@A Woman re: “But I would guess that his satisfaction with his marriage and women was low– though maybe not as low as his modern equivalen”
Hence, the beta’s situation is *worse* now. There should be no attempt at confusion or misunderstanding: it is simply worse.
Glenn
December 19th, 2014 at 4:43 pm
Blue movies and sex shows at county fairs. Never saw blue movies until the rise of video porn (Christy Canyon – yum). The county fair was pretty tame by today’s standards. But I got to see a real live adult female pussy with hair at age 17. From about 3 ft away. I can’t recall her tits. And she was definitely skanky. Of course the midway was nearly closed by then.
And my dad kept a box of Playboys in the basement. Just like “Married with Children” heh.
@Glenn re: “I was asking how they account for the power of sexual selection in their feminist ideology? How do they account for the fact that women prefer to breed with men who exude the exact masculine traits they say are problematic?”
Obviously they do not account for it, and deny it, and suppress evidence that they are wrong. They prefers lies to truth.
Which why what I have experienced as “being in love” I never want to feel that way again.
Oh. Yeah.
re: “over time, nothing is sexier”
Hehe indeed, but I’ll emphasize differently: to women *nothing* is sexier than having to force themselves to have sex with these long-term men that they supposedly love in a “better” way than sexually.
Obviously they do not account for it, and deny it, and suppress evidence that they are wrong. They prefers lies to truth.
I nave Red Pilled the OL the last few years and she freely admits that she wants me. Badly. I found out that part of her early in the relationship and cultivated it. To the point where I encouraged her to date if she wanted. Just so she had no “could I have done better” lurking in the back of her mind.
Smooth sailing? Hell no. But that determined attraction on her part has helped.
Trugingstar’s despair at Christian redpill may be appropriate here albeit misplaced in its direction. The heavy lifting that DS and Donal and others are trying to do cannot work, in my unhumble opinion. Women prefer bad boys, and bad is incompatible with Christianity, full stop.
Rollo Tomassi
December 19th, 2014 at 6:22 pm
The OL never had a pet name for me. It was always “Simon”. Sometimes pronounced in Spanish. Seemon. Which means yes in Spanish slang. She is Italian and Finnish.
The heavy lifting that DS and Donal and others are trying to do cannot work, in my unhumble opinion. Women prefer bad boys, and bad is incompatible with Christianity, full stop.
It is painful to watch.
dr seal
December 19th, 2014 at 6:50 pm
So there should be a big sign at the top? Master Your Anger Before Entering I’d say that is the rule before dealing with women period.
If you haven’t doe even the rudiments of that women will use it against you.
@Glenn, re: “one way to get laid was to make the woman believe you are falling in love with her – that night.” I dunno. I define “in love” as obsessively limerent. I think women wish they could experience falling “in love” as big and hard as men experience it, which is the main reason women like romance novels. It’s the same Freudian envy that makes women wish they could experience having clitorises as big and hard as men’s … But in the same way that women do NOT like or want 80-plus percent of men’s penises, women do not… Read more »
@M Simon, re: “Just so she had no “could I have done better” lurking in the back of her mind.”
Ok, but due to women’s lesser drive, the option of *nothing* (and cats) is always lurking too.
After that I’ll delve into the social implications of Hypergamy and have Marxism explained to me.
Should I apologize or should you thank me? LOL.and ROTFLMAO. Nice touch BTW. But you have to admit that there is a lot of ignorance on the subject.
Ok, but due to women’s lesser drive, the option of *nothing* (and cats) is always lurking too.
Old age brings a LOT of that. But back when the juices were flowing better in both of us it was important. However, we have spent too much time together. And these days when I suggest she get a boyfriend if she isn’t satisfied she recoils.
SJB
December 19th, 2014 at 9:38 pm
I ALWAYS gave the OL more details than she wanted. What we (the other woman and I) did. How good it felt. Made her up her game. She never cared to give me any details. And I never pressed. Too much.
I should ask her “Was there anything you tried with others that you would like to try with me?” Just to see her response, if nothing else.
or if you WANT to have to game your woman perpetually
Well yeah. Why not? When you are practiced it is not real hard work. If not her some one else. Or both of them.
As to overpopulation? Malthusian crap. No such thing. Besides as incomes go above about $5K per capita per year breeding goes below replacement. Even Islam is in trouble.
Glenn, M. Simon – Not dignifying the ridiculous, ahistorical “Islamism is Nazism” Perhaps that should be qualified to “before the 20th Century” but I have given you more than enough historical evidence to make my point. What you want to BELIEVE is up to you. But that does not change the history. And maybe it should be “not all…” But it is not insignificant either. You might want to look up the origins of the Baathists. Interesting history there. And “Mein Kampf” is STILL a best seller in the ME. You can look it up. And personally I don’t care… Read more »
We have no real room to complain about women’s unique dishonesty. The OL will lie like a rug in the hopes it will get her what she wants. I prefer the truth. If you get known for truth it starts to have power. Very handy in engineering. But I can see an engineer and a salesman weighting those things differently. Salesmen who sell to engineers hew pretty close to the truth. They don’t do well otherwise. There was a salesman from Arrow…. BTW if you need some work I may have a sales project up your alley. Would you be… Read more »
As well, humans are rarely capable of pure rationality in the first place, but rather mostly engage in “motivated reasoning”. Engineering is different. Some. Rationality is about 10% vs 1% or less in most of the rest of the world. The biggest disasters in engineering come from not giving rationality enough weight. Such things as, “Well the prototype works.” That one cost the company $3 million. My “but what if…” ignored until too late. Because of motivated reasoning. “We can’t afford a schedule delay.” They never did deliver. Had they considered that an option they would have incorporated my suggestions… Read more »
Some Old-School Red-Pill Reading:
On Women by Arthur Schopenhauer
http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/onwomen.html
Misogyny Alert!!! (For those sensitive alphas out there 😉 )
And the only “change” you can implement through activism is political, not personal, hence why M. Simon is hectoring us about that. You know. I was wondering about that. If I was to make a political suggestion to leftist betas they would be all over it. Criticizing, improving, accepting. What ever. Around here other than Glen who has no interest (fine with me) nothing. I sincerely believe that some of the FI could be rolled back if the men on the right had a vision of improving the world. That seems to be a lefty thing totally absent on the… Read more »
“Man Up!” ahoy!
To the harpoons, lads. Whereaway?
Code Red, Code Yellow and mostly, Code Purple @1850hrs, cap’n.
@mike, have you checked out Dalrock’s blog? He looks at the red pill from a Christian perspective. It’s true, the bible is pretty redpill; but people nowadays do their best to ignore that with things like ‘mutual headship’ and other horseshit.
“A people is not defeated until the hearts of its women are on the ground.”– Cheyenne saying
@ jf12 – You missed the point of how the “falling in love” gambit works. It’s a fantasy – it’s not real. In a bar pickup situation you must get the woman into her fantasy state of mind – that’s how short term pick up works. You can get her there in many ways and this is just one of them. I’m not talking about “love” in the sense of being married for 25 years, I’m talking about the uncontrollable impulse to tell a woman you love her for the first time. It worked every time I did it –… Read more »
@ M. Simon – I know all about the Grand Mufti and the fascist history of Ba’athism, far better than you do M. None of it makes comparing Nazism with Islamism a valid concept. I get it, you are a Zionist and you need to justify the campaign of invasion, occupation, colonization and ethnic cleansing that is ongoing in Palestine somehow, and calling Muslims Nazis provides the moral license to do so. But please, anyone who studies history seriously laughs at what you are saying. It’s just partisan hyperbole and doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously. But you won’t stop… Read more »
M. Simon – “When you are practiced it is not real hard work.”
I’ve decided never to do that sort of “work” again. The process should be immediately and consistently fun, rewarding, and effortless otherwise it’s not worth my time and energy.
Glenn
December 20th, 2014 at 10:10 am
Not impressed.
Badpainter
December 20th, 2014 at 10:29 am
I have children.
See: Mr T.
December 19th, 2014 at 2:14 pm
Badpainter
December 20th, 2014 at 10:29 am
Further – I have other interests. And despite/because of the effort I am having fun. I think of it as mountain climbing. Or a never ending engineering project.
Men’s vs women’s sex drive. I once tried to figure out the difference from the tails of the curve. About 3% of men are into fetishistc sex. For women the number is 1%. From that it is possible to estimated the difference. It is not a lot. About 1/2 standard deviation.
I want to apologize about what I said about FBNF. I have no way of knowing she’s a slut, as well as a bitch. That’s stupid of me. People have probably accused me of… going beyond the side-hug. Just assume that FBNF is who she says she is in that matter. Otherwise, she’s just your ordinary, ass-kiss. Fixed. The guy, though, is a technical virgin. So. Awesome. I had the unfortunate luck of finding-out what “feeling up” meant in a movie, and I had to turn away. He must have hung-out with fat chicks, because there’s no way he could… Read more »
Sorry, no need for everyone to know that about what’s his face’s sexual history, you can fix it. I’m obviously upset.
At least at this point, I’ll feel like if I never marry, it will be by choice. All of the sin that people do in the process to appear “holier” and get married: lying, gossiping, slandering, sex, coveting… it’s just not worth my soul to get married. I’m not doing it. It’s too late. It’s too bad, I wasn’t set-up for marriage by my family. I don’t think anyone really knew it was going to be like this. I’m caught between watching my sexuality slowly die and killing my soul with the competitive, narcissistic shit people do nowadays. I’m so… Read more »
You know, I’ve done some of that stuff in the past, as revenge for seeing it done to other people. I’m just not going to do it at all any more, unless I find myself in a situation wherein I feel uncomfortable and it needs to be mitigated. My new rule is also, if a girl likes a guy and it’s unclear how he feels about her, all bets are off: any of us can date the guy. It may be that he doesn’t feel the same way, and likes someone else in the group. However, if it looks like… Read more »
@Glenn re: “Women who are willing to be consciously submissive in their relationships with men are simply not there in large numbers today.”
Amen. I could not agree more. At least in the past, women were made to feel guilty about not being submissive.
@TruGing, re: issues.
Yeah, trying to do things right is hard. Especially sexually. Keep in mind that the urges you feel once a month are felt MUCH harder by men every single day without letup ever.
@TruGing, re: “I don’t think anyone really knew it was going to be like this. I’m caught between watching my sexuality slowly die and killing my soul” I disagree. I think this was the plan: to kill our souls by dirtying our sexuality. I’ve been hanging out with, off working with actually, but sort of carpooling for an hour a day, a girl about your age, brilliant in her way but usually smolderingly quiet as I drive and ramble. Occasionally she explodes in some rant or other about how hard it is to be a woman and keep urges and… Read more »
One more for TruGing, re: “Within marriage, it’s special (or I hope it can be), but outside of it, I wish Christians would just stick to their guns and stop acting like it’s so cool.”
It’s all up to you. Marry a man and YOU treat him as if he were your alpha king, and it will be right and special.
jf12 – “Marry a man and YOU treat him as if he were your alpha king, and it will be right and special.”
A beta hating Jesus-Alpha-Widow? Seems unlikely as she hates the only men who would tolerate her flaws, and marry her despite those flaws.
How am I a beta-hating Jesus Alpha Widow? You need an alpha for that. It’s not as if every guy I like is an alpha just because I like him. I usually like guys who aren’t very popular.
I never said I didn’t have flaws. I do. I have tons. I know what they are and I’m open about them. I’m probably too open too soon, actually.
Step 1: Get married to someone you like
Step 2: Treat them well
It doesn’t have to be Benedict Cumberbatch. I have to like them, put work into it, treat them well, voila.
Truingstar – “How am I a beta-hating Jesus Alpha Widow?”
You said you hate betas. Jesus is your Alpha, the most important man in your life, that no actual living man has any chance of competing with, or being your highest priority. The man that would have you will always be secondary to Jesus. The catch-22 is that any man that would tolerate that is a beta by default, an impossible situation for a believer. He would be punished by you for his faith.
Yeah, he has to be the same religion…
I hate betas and alphas. I hate all men. I also hate women. Sorry for the confusion.
Welp, it was fun venting, but I can’t give one douchebag too much of my time. I still have a ton more to meet.
Bye, girlss!
I suppose that things could be worse for men. We have semi-covert ovulation. If it were that humans had covert menstruation like some mammalian species. Now that would suck.
@Badpainter re: “The catch-22 is that any man that would tolerate that is a beta by default”
It doesn’t HAVE to be a catch-22, IF the woman chooses to treat a beta as if he were an alpha. It’s entirely up to her. Not him. I certainly believe (indeed it is the central tenet) that a person can choose to behave contrary to her nature.
Unfortunately, I no longer believe women will so choose, but that’s a different story.
@forget, I agree. The Bible is very clear as to which gender God has given the responsibility of headship. “For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church.” – Ephesians 5:23 Also, someone mentioned how being a Christian puts one at an automatic disadvantage with women due to the appeal of the “bad boy” archetype and its presumed mutual exclusivity with the choirboy, beta personality they associate with Christian men. Of course, I cannot entirely deny that there is some truth to that assertion. After all, this world is a bad place… Read more »
No. Wait. Stop. No.
Learned the lessons, I had.
@wanderer Unless a man were to knock a woman unconscious, have an EXTREME size advantage, or drug her, I don’t understand how a man could force a woman to have sex with her. I had to rape away a virginity, and I can assure you that rape is physically impossible. That is not hyperbole. It is physically impossible for ANY man, regardless of size, to fuck a woman against her will if she is struggling against it. All she has to do is put her legs close together. Have you ever forcefully tried to pry open a girls legs? I… Read more »