Open Hypergamy

As I wrote in Controlling Interests, the secrecy previously necessary for hypergamy and women’s pluralistic sexual strategy is rapidly being replaced with not just a new, overt, social openness about it, but a flaunting, triumphalism about how men are expected to embrace this new openness about it.

These would be the boys / men who would be taught to “naturally” defer to the authority of women under the auspices of a desire to be an equal partner.

These are the men raised privately and created socially to be ready for women, “when it comes time to settle down, and find someone who wants an equal partner.”

These would be the men ready to expect and accept a woman’s proactive cuckoldry of him in the name of being a pro-feminine equal.

These are the men raised to accept an open form of hypergamy in place of the selling to an old-order Beta provisioning model.

As in this Red Robin commercial, it’s gotten to the point now that the Feminine Imperative is comfortable in ridiculing men for not already being aware of the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks dynamic of hypergamy, as well as ridiculing them for going along with it anyway.

The expectation that men should already know this dynamic and be ready to accept it, and commit himself to it, engenders genuine shock when a man deviates from that script. As we found with the story of the Spreadsheet Guy a couple weeks ago, the anger female commenters expressed over his logging his wife’s excuses for turning him down sexually was not due to his actions, but rather what those actions represented for the greater whole of men.

Women’s indignation over this was rooted in a Beta man not already being aware of the role he was expected to play. The new order fem-groupthink presumes that any guy who follows the old order socio-sexual contract should already know he’s been cast as a dutiful, providing Beta — he follows the prepared script for the guy who responsibly proves he’s a ‘better man’ for having forgiven her sexual indiscretions with prior Alpha’s and accepting the role of being relegated to being her emotional supporter and hand-holder. And all of this after she’s had her “self-discovery” and know who “she really is.”

Genies and Bottles

This expectation of men being preconditioned to follow a feminine-primary social order is not just limited to women’s expectations. We’ve progressed to the point that blue pill men are becoming vocal advocates for this same acceptance of open hypergamy.

Under the dubious pretense of concern for the general lack of gallant, chivalry and Beta Bucks-side provisioning women are entitled to – in spite of women’s embrace of open hypergamy – these watered down ‘purple pill’ “Dating Coaches” suffer from the same shock and indignation that a woman, somewhere, might not be given her life’s due of having a dutiful Beta awaiting to fulfill the provisioning side of her sexual strategy when her SMV begins to decay in earnest.

In a feminine centric social order, even men must be strong advocates for open hypergamy, and essentially their own proactive cuckoldry. That a woman may be better prepared than most Beta men to provide for her own security is never an afterthought – their sales pitch is the same old-order lie that women will reciprocate intimately for a man’s good nature and virtuous respect for the feminine if he’ll only accept open hypergamy.

But Spreadsheet Guy went off the reservation, “how dare he keep track of his wife’s sexual frequency!” The general anger is rooted in his ‘not getting‘ the social convention that sex (for consummate Beta providers) “tapers off after marriage”, but if he would just Man Up and fall back into his supportive, pre-established role, and learn to be a better, more attentive ‘man’ for his wife, she would (logically) reciprocate with more sex.

For what it’s worth, the men women want to fuck wouldn’t keep track of sexual frequency because the dread of missing out on a sexual opportunity with a desirable Alpha is usually enough to ensure frequency. Alpha Men wouldn’t complain about sexual frequency, they simply move on to a new woman. Beta’s complain about sexual frequency because they are expected to know and accept (now via open hypergamy) that they will never get the type of sex their women had with the Alphas before them, but are led to believe they would get (and better) if they commit to a woman’s provisioning.

Nobody marries their ‘best sex ever’:

According to a recent study by iVillage, less than half of wedded women married the person who was the best sex of their lives (52 percent say that was an ex.) In fact, 66 percent would rather read a book, watch a movie or take a nap than sleep with a spouse.

Amanda Chatel, a 33-year-old writer from the East Village, says, “With the men I’ve loved, the sex has been good, sometimes great, but never ‘best.’ It’s resulted in many orgasms and was fun but, comparatively speaking, it didn’t have that intensity that comes with the ‘best’ sex.

“I knew [my best sex partner] was temporary, and so the great sex was the best because the sex was the relationship,” she adds. “We didn’t have to invest in anything else.”

As you can see here, the incremental problem that advocates of the ‘Man Up and accept your duty to open hypergamy’ meme will find is that reconciling the old-order social contract they need to balance hypergamy will become increasingly more difficult as example after example like this become more evident and more commonplace.

These ‘Dating Coaches’ are hocking advice from the perspective of an old-order social contract for men, in order to reconcile the well earned, well deserved consequences women are now suffering as a result of a new-order, feminine-primary social contract that has embraced unrestrained hypergamy.

Getting the Best of Her

Another link had been making the rounds in the manosphere a few weeks ago, and at the risk of just adding my own voice to the chorus I thought I’d dissect it a bit. You can have a read of the original “advice column” here, but I think the quotes will pretty much tell the story. Emphasis my own:

 Dear Carolyn:

After multiple relationships not working out because both parties were dishonest in one way or another, I decided to use a new approach to my current relationship. I am 23, met my current boyfriend (also 23) online, and decided to be COMPLETELY HONEST.

This was meant to mostly cover my feelings, as I tended to hold things in unhealthily, but I let it fold over to all aspects, including the disclosure of my sexual history. I have now learned this was a mistake.

Not to make any Beta leaning guy even more depressed, but I read this and couldn’t help but see how the Sheryl Sandberg ‘open hypergamy’ model is only going to aggravate more and more unplugged / red pill aware Betas.

Think about how disenfranchised that dutiful Beta is going to be when he is flat out told to his face by a woman, he was conditioned to believe would appreciate his unique old order appeal, that he’ll never be getting the ‘sexual best’ he believed his wife would have waiting for him in marriage. It’s one thing to read article after article detailing the triumphant aspects of a new open hypergamy, and it’s one thing to see it blatantly used in commercial advertising, but it’s quite another to experience it firsthand, viscerally, in your face.

Besides the fact that she’s had multiple “relationships” at age 23, I find it interesting that she’s recognized this ‘openness’ as a mistake. Not a mistake with regards to her own choices, but rather a mistake in feeling comfortable enough to lay bear her sexual strategy for a guy who should expects should already be “accepting of who she is.”

Compare the open hypergamy model with the guy from Saving the Best:

I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.

In feminine-primary society men are constantly and publicly demonized as the ‘manipulator’. The default is to assume men are the one’s to watch out for. Men are the sex with the most dishonest nature with the most to gain sexually by playing games to trick women into believing they’re something they’re not in order to fuck them and leave them.

This presumptions is really a generalized social convention that builds a foundation for more specific social conventions women need in order to exercise feminine-primary control with men and culture on whole. It’s actually a rudimentary convention that’s easy to accept for women since feminine hypergamy has evolved a subconscious ‘vetting’ mechanism into most women’s psyches.

While it’s giggly and entertaining for women to categorize men into Cads and Dads, the irony of their doing so is that this only highlights women’s life-long patterns of deception and the manipulation efforts necessary to effecting their own dualistic sexual strategy.

That sexual selection ‘firmware’, the one which predisposes women on a limbic level to evaluating mating options of short term breeding opportunities (Alpha Fucks) with parental investment opportunities (Beta Bucks), is the same mechanism that made women the more deceptive sex when it comes to sexual strategies. The problem now is that this hypergamous deceptiveness is being replaced with ‘complete honesty’ from a macro-societal level down to an interpersonal one.

And ironically, it will be the most stubborn of blue pill Beta men, advocating for a return to an old-order social contract destroyed by the very women they hope will respond to it, who will be the last to finally accept and respond to the new-order of open hypergamy.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

Ha! will you be grateful when your video-game playing beta friends save your ass, flying drones from a cubicle?

The IS are brainwashing young boys to become jihadists and suicide bombers. It’s an extremely stripped-down version of exactly the dynamic I describe in the above post. I know you meant to knock it down, but you ended up supporting it.

M Simon
7 years ago

Dominate or be dominated. It is human nature. Yeah. “Can’t we all get along?”

No.

And of course there is the old:

You may not be interested in war but war is interested in you.

Trotsky IIRC.

And of course the much older

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Well you are having none of it. Bravo. It will be having you.

M Simon
7 years ago

Cubicle warrior? Too funny. I spent my vacation in ’66 in the South China Sea. On a little tub you never heard of DLG(N)-25. Watched planes fly off CVA(N)-65. When I wasn’t tending the (N) as an RO.

FeminineImperative
FeminineImperative
7 years ago

California debates ‘yes means yes’ sex assault law:
http://news.yahoo.com/california-debates-yes-means-yes-sex-assault-law-144457610.html

“Legislation passed by California’s state Senate in May and coming before the Assembly this month would require all schools that receive public funds for student financial assistance to set a so-called “affirmative consent standard” that could be used in investigating and adjudicating sexual assault allegations. That would be defined as “an affirmative, unambiguous and conscious decision” by each party to engage in sexual activity.

Silence or lack of resistance does not constitute consent. The legislation says it’s also not consent if the person is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep.”

Un-fucking-believable.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@FeminineImperative, re yes means yes.

So if the guy remained silent the whole time, and didn’t bother asking or explaining what he was doing, then he’d have a case?

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

Hearts and minds, man. I control mine. I can tell when people are trying to use fear to hijack them. Not buying it. If thinking selflessly – thinking what you’re told – is beta, this ain’t it. Thinking selfishly and seeking to dominate – what many call alpha traits – leads to many of these problems you bring up. 1939 (poor analogy tho). The IS. Thinking objectively and critically, holding the personal and universal in mind simultaneously? Refusing to be dominated, yet not seeking to dominate? Sigma, perhaps. Doesn’t matter. It’s all symbolism. We MUST evolve past this. Us vs… Read more »

CREAM
CREAM
7 years ago

Nothing in this universe occurs in isolation. Everything is relative, everything is connected. Feminism/manosphere/red pill/bla bla bla is but one data point in the bigger picture to which all the others are blindspots. For example: all this talk of intergender relations without any mention of _______???Fill in the blank. I’ve seen comment after comment going into psychology, sociology, and even some history to back up the evidence. The blank, to put things in perspective in short order, should’ve been filled in with “money.” Why? Duh! CREAM (cash rules everything around me). What role does money play in the intergender/red pill/feminism/etc… Read more »

WetWillie
WetWillie
7 years ago

@CREAM

Amen to that

khan
khan
7 years ago

Rollo, an alpha in every other part of nature breeds and reproduces more than a beta. i believe your definition of ‘alpha’ is flawed because you equate amount of sex with amount of offspring. following natures law an alpha man would father numerous kids with multiple women who themselves go on to do the same in the future. i suspect many who call themselves ‘alpha’ does not fit this definition. and if youre not alpha, then you are beta. as for your ‘smv’ i also disagree. if two women produce healthy offspring thier value is the same regardless. a true… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

Nice girl in bikini and machine gun.

http://imgur.com/zipuu

D-Man
August 11th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

But you are making my point. Some one will dominate. You or IS?

If it is going to be you, then you might as well start practicing domination now. Get ahead of the game.

M Simon
7 years ago

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1138303_Official_Girls_of_the_IDF_thread__many_new_pics_Pg_9__.html

Now what kind of man would you have to be to get one of those girls? If you look at the polls and read some of the comments what we have there is a nation of Alphas.

And funny enough the nation I grew up in (born 1944) was a nation of alphas.

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

“what kind of man would you have to be to get one of those girls?”

Couldn’t have worded a beta, qualifying minset any better.

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

Start practicing domination you say?

——–

Hey Skipper, is your wife’s name Gilligan? She’s the First Mate, right?

Know what? I think you love her. That’s OK! you can admit it.

For some reason you feel the need to come here and tell us stories about how you dominate her and fuck with her head like a big ol SuperAlpha from a generation of Alphas. Oh yeah, and talk about your daughter’s tits too. But that’s OK!

——–

Nah, doesn’t feel right.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

In one of the more amusing twists, it turns out that ONLY alphas get cuckolded in most species that have true alphas. In deer, for example, where the dominant stag is the only one who gets to breed with his harem, the “sneak f-er” strategy gets a hind pregnant by a beta male, and the fawn is raised as if it were the alpha’s.

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

M. Simon – “Now what kind of man would you have to be to get one of those girls?”

Umm…Jewish?

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

Ellebee – “Women crave security; and men crave security AND freedom.” Ummm… No Freedom is security. As a woman you have no knowledge of that because you are not able, or willing to provide your own security. Instead you must trust others to do it for you. Much in the same way y’all need help opening jars. For men to be secure and to provide security to their families friends and communities they must live in a state of not freedom but liberty. Freedom springs from liberty, but freedom without liberty is trite and insubstantial. Most societies that have reduced… Read more »

melmoth
melmoth
7 years ago

Simon,

You say, “Where the men are weak, the women are ugly.”

I argue just the opposite. Where the men are world leaders and innovators, the women will be spoiled. Just look at the USA. Now go to Indonesia, Vietnam, Brazil, Latvia etc where the men make 300$ a month and bed better women than our brain surgeons. You have it totally backwards. Let’s say the men wake up tomorrow and all carry themselves like John Wayne. Between their solipsism and their faces buried in ice cream, American women wouldn’t even notice.

M Simon
7 years ago

melmoth August 11th, 2014 at 9:52 pm You are confusing wealth with strength. Has betaness rotted your brain? Poor men can’t afford weakness they will starve, or get beat, or eaten. Now there is nothing keeping the rich from being strong except lack of desire. The Israelis have proved that. They are well off and yet – they exude strength. I never had the desire to be weak but 3 years in an outlaw MC gang totally cured me of the habit. It is not safe to show ANY sign of weakness with that kind of crowd. Of course I… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

Oh yeah, and talk about your daughter’s tits too. But that’s OK! Actually I never mentioned them. All I said was she was a 9.5 But I suppose it is OK to let your imagination run away with you. It is interesting watching men and some women drool in her presence. The first mate looked almost as good when I met her. Around a 9. The first daughter gained a half point. Not insubstantial at that level. And she has a degree in ChemE – near the top of her class of mostly men. Love discussing thermodynamics with her. Beauty… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

Anyone could do it if they wanted it bad enough.

The Other Jim
The Other Jim
7 years ago

It’s interesting. I find myself agreeing with M.Simon and his critics. Clearly, going full MGTOW is not the answer, neither is acting like society hasn’t changed since the 1960’s. It has-Socially, legally, economically, et al., and the reality is that there are larger risks for men at present compared to then. However, one can manage these risks if one understands oneself, sees things with a clear eye, and has a strategy. The best I can recommend is doing a serious SWOT analysis of oneself & environment. It’s as with everything in life, one must understand the risks, make a calculation… Read more »

George
George
7 years ago

I’ve been reading this site for several weeks now. Some of you have read my comments and responded. I apologize if I have offended anyone, some of my responses to your reactions have been intentionally offensive. At this point, I would like to thank Rollo for articulating the dynamics of gender relationships so well and in more concise logical terms than I can. This site is great. I’m 51 years old, married almost 20, we have a 15 year old daughter. I’ve had my share of women and more than my share of opportunities with them. For me the opportunities… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

August 2nd, 2014 at 10:25 am

When was the last time you saw a hot girl outside of a club?

“Every time I see #1 daughter. In the 9 to 10 range. ”

August 4th, 2014 at 6:47 pm

“The girl is tall, thin, very good looking, very top heavy, and very bright. A 9.5 – minimum.”

————————-

Dude good for you, you’re proud of your progeny. Just kinda stuck out oddly how you chose to express it. Chalk it up to a generational thing.

melmoth
melmoth
7 years ago

Simon,

You’re a boy lost in some Conan novel worldview. Go ahead and call me a beta if you must. An outlaw MC gang? Cool in the movies. A bunch of insecure boys looking for long lost daddy, in reality.

M Simon
7 years ago

Ya got me. But top heavy is not near so crass as tits.

M Simon
7 years ago

An outlaw MC gang? Cool in the movies. A bunch of insecure boys looking for long lost daddy, in reality. Not exactly. Sufferers of child abuse with severe cases of PTSD. Never found one who didn’t match with child abuse if I got to know them well enough so that they started to talk. And I assure you it was no movie. If you know where to look (I’m not going to tell) you can find accounts and reminisces from the gang on the www. Say did I mention the time I spent with a black magician? Or how I… Read more »

Jafyk
Jafyk
7 years ago

@Rollo My response isn’t necessarily to anything specific from this particular blog topic. However, it is motivated by a few things including things I have been reading from this site in general. This is directed at Rollo. The pattern I’ve observed from this site is that the problems are pointed out as with most things (example criticizing the government) Yet no solutions are being offered. It would almost seem that like women we guys like the drama of having to talk about gender related problems. I know you’ve said in the past that you are not here to tell people… Read more »

heyjay
heyjay
7 years ago

There is clearly a difference between fighting for your country, in my eyes being the ultimate expendable drone and not wanting to deal with women. How is being killed supposed to be alpha in any way? The alphas are the generals who are not at all involved directly. The same is true for having a family and marrying. You’re just supporting the FI by being the “best” you can be. You gotta work hard to feed the state and to keep your woman from cheating and when she does it’s your fault? That can’t be true. Women are at fault… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

Jafyk August 12th, 2014 at 4:21 am re: “dominate her, she will love you for it” – that was mine. So let me talk about my failures. Heaven knows you are sick and tired of my success stories. It took me 12 years from my Red Pill to getting reasonably good at Game. The lessons are not learned all at once. And you have the difficulty that unlike bars of steel or bags of flour women are fairly different from each other in their specifics. Now with my success so assured why am I hanging out here discussing all that… Read more »

Jafyk
Jafyk
7 years ago
Reply to  M Simon

@ M. Simon I can see where you are coming from. Anyway, I wasn’t attributing your quote as being Rollo’s. Just using it as an example. All the same your point was duly noted. I was leaving the grocery store tonight and I see this lady going off on this guy right in front of the store. I’m not sure what happened or who’s to blame but from their exchange it seemed to me they were in a relationship. I wanted to go over there and just hand the guy a note with the name of this site. Anyway, that… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

heyjay August 12th, 2014 at 6:09 am How is being killed supposed to be alpha in any way? The alphas are the generals who are not at all involved directly. To become a General you have to start out by sharing the risk of those who will some day be under your command. And the very best generals never stop sharing the risk. You might want to look up Gen. Maurice Rose in that regard. Killed in battle. Revered by those under him. It is sad that the general public doesn’t, as Patton put it, “know any more about war… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

Yeah, men might have let it happen but women took as much from the cake as they could. They are designed to. Just as you are. I see no point in pissing and moaning about it. Learn how it works and take as much advantage as your morality allows. As in business, the fairest exchange empowers both sides of a transaction. But since women generally have no conception of fairness it is up to the male to dominate so both parties can get value. And why should women have any conception of fairness? What are their objectives? 1. Get the… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
7 years ago

Wow. First off, anyone following along should ask themselves how many “alphas” are sitting around posting dozens of comments on a single blog article raving about what alphas they are. I mean it’s just amazing, one conversation with one girl when he’s 18 and voila, he’s sidestepped the entire culture and society that imposes female imperatives. And then stays with with one woman for 40 years, lol. Some alpha. M. Simon – what is your N? But I digress… I think that sometimes people mix up SMV with alpha/betaness in these conversation. All kinds of things go into how a… Read more »

Plagio
Plagio
7 years ago

No one is forcing men to accept the female agenda for fun and mating. If men are trapped, used and discarded by women its because se never mature beyond the age of 17 and we let ourselves be ruled by the vagina. Get used to it. Marriage, relationships, players and puas are coming to an end. Soon enough men will reject society.

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

Glenn- “You see, the beta is someone who internalized the idea that a man’s value in society lies in what he can do for others. Whether it’s work, provisioning, even getting women hot, it’s his responsibility. His fault, his problem. The entire framing of life that beta brings to the table is self-sabotaging and designed to give one an unsatisfying life.” Perfect description of my programming. M. Simon would have us all pursue that course with full focus and regardless of rewards because we are all service animals. H’s just rebranding servitude to the FI and the rotten structure that… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

What’s my N? 0x65C98A That is just to confirm to you that I’m lyin my ass off. I hope in makes you happy. It made me VERY happy.

But I suppose as long as YOU are making things up no harm done.

Some of us are lucky enough and have the determination to lead the life we want. Sorry you weren’t so fortunate. My condolences.

M Simon
7 years ago

Badpainter
August 12th, 2014 at 9:52 am

Well of course you are going to serve the women and children if you have any. The choice you get is: “My terms or hers?” This has always and forever been the case. Men are expendable. And of course if you are a behavioral beta it is even worse. Some one else knocks her up and you get to pay.

If you don’t want a family, there is no point in learning about women. Especially if you are willing to do without.

If you want breeding with minimal involvement get a dog.

Glenn
Glenn
7 years ago

@ M. Simon – My “N” is over 100. Not so hard to answer the question properly. That means I’ve had sex with over 100 different women in my life. That means I’ve navigated this dynamic you prattle on and on about successfully many times while you were placating your wife. By the way you speak, I can tell that you know next to nothing about the current sexual marketplace because you are a spectator in it. And even worse? You sit on the sidelines throwing tomatoes at the guys on the field who are still in the game. As… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
7 years ago

@ M. Simon – “Well of course you are going to serve the women and children if you have any.” Lol. Please, continue on with the lecture, oh mighty AARP Alpha Leader, and tell us how the female imperative doesn’t control you. WebAlphas of the world, unite – we have found your leader, the mighty M. Simon. Hasn’t had a strange piece of ass in 40 years, and serves women and children, but he’s got an Alpha solution for you. Lol. I mean, really, LO-Fucking-L. Like I’ve said on other posts. Consume this kind of bullshit at your own risk… Read more »

MikePhil
MikePhil
7 years ago

The main point of this particular essay – and I’m going back to the Red Robin commercial – is that now, hypergamy is out in the open and it’s penetrated our media. The message as I understand it is,”That’s the way it is now, boys, so go get fitted for your leash and collar and capitulate. Comply, and you might get laid, after I’ve decided if you’ve deserved it this quarter. Otherwise, you’ll end up miserable and alone.” If that is truly where we are now, in light of almost constant TV and movie depictions / reinforcement of feminine entitlement… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Here is George’s message, mostly delivered around the time of Game Changers:

“Nurture trumps nature, so all this ev-psych stuff is crap.
Real men don’t need game.
You’re a real man, aren’t you?
Then don’t bother with game.”

And no George, I don’t personally believe the above. I think it’s bullshit posturing.

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

Cosign MikePhil. Open hypergamy calls for open defiance of the status quo, open trascendence of it. This is how the sphere wins. We are discussing these concepts openly, on the internet. We’re trying to spread the word, and we are largely ridiculed for it. That’s fine. Because if your ego has been trashed already, you’ll be more able to set aside your societally-induced self-righteousness and actually look at things with open eyes. You do the hard work, you get the rewards. Most leaps in understanding are initially ridiculed – even by respected scientists, many of whom stubbornly take their beliefs… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

I think part of the disconnect between the experience of M Simon and some of the younger guys is that women have in fact changed.
Their nature remains the same, but their socialization has changed.

Most women now in their 50s haven’t been exposed to ‘Women’s Studies’ in college. That brainwashing causes serious attitudinal and behavioral problems in women.
Women not directly exposed to it just tend to be better women. They are more likely to appreciate a real man.

M Simon
7 years ago

I wonder what your idea of raising children is? Remote control? Give the job over to some beta? I’m sorry that I wanted to have something to do with my children’s life. I’m sorry I didn’t want them to have father issues. I’m sorry I was unwilling to abandon them to the tender mercies of a step-father. Since I was unwilling to do all that the only other choice was to dominate the first mate. Just got done doing that. Asked her if she liked it. “Yes.” Did it make you feel good? “Yes.” Now if you lot want to… Read more »

Entropy is my god
Entropy is my god
7 years ago

@M Simon

You will die. All of your children will die. Your belongings will decay to nothing. Your country will fall apart and people will forget it ever existed. Your planet will die and your sun will explode.

Vanity, vanity, all is vanity……..

Your god is pride. My god wins.

Jafyk
Jafyk
7 years ago

@ Entropy
Lol, that was so random. Who is your God? If it’s entropy, explain why it’s your God and how that is relevant to the subject of this blog?

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
7 years ago

Hypergamy is the natural state of humankind. Very few men ever got to reproduce, women have always been the female equivalent of the beta orbiter where it concerns high quality men(tall + handsome/rich) men. For the vast majority of Mankind’s existence the elite men had all of the women, and somehow the rest of the men didn’t die from vagina-hunger. Sex is not a human need. Sex is a drug. A heavily sought after drug, which is why its so expensive for the men who were never supposed to get it. You don’t want to pay the price?(beta bucks) Avoid… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
7 years ago

”I wonder what your idea of raising children is? Remote control? Give the job over to some beta? I’m sorry that I wanted to have something to do with my children’s life. I’m sorry I didn’t want them to have father issues. I’m sorry I was unwilling to abandon them to the tender mercies of a step-father.” Meh, Let me tell you, that as a young man, I feel very grateful for never having had any children. I have no college debt(because I delayed college until I could afford it etc) I don’t have ex-girlfriends, I stopped dating and bothering… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
7 years ago

”I think part of the disconnect between the experience of M Simon and some of the younger guys is that women have in fact changed. Their nature remains the same, but their socialization has changed. Most women now in their 50s haven’t been exposed to ‘Women’s Studies’ in college. That brainwashing causes serious attitudinal and behavioral problems in women. Women not directly exposed to it just tend to be better women. They are more likely to appreciate a real man.” Women have always been what they are now. My grandmother is 74 and she still behaves as if she was… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

“Men should stop reproducing and we should pass that role to the state.” Should? Right, I forgot, the State does everything better than the private sector or open market. “With the numerous bank sperms around the world, all women have to do is to select the sperm they want, and then they can raise their own kids and go about returning to the Alpha carousel.” No benefit of even sex or a 50% chance of staying the resident father of your children. You will still end up paying for the baby mammas through your taxes. You live in Germany? What… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
7 years ago

“.. pay your taxes, stay civil .. reward removal. Society has come to expect and feel entitled to the rewards of our overproduction.” D-man. I’d rather maximize my tax-efficiency than pay the leeches a bent penny if I don’t have to. Even if it means taking half the year off (not all at once, of course), sat in a rocker picking my nose and supping ale. Although I generally find something pretty absorbing and different to do instead, even after I’ve fixed as much of the house as I can get at. Usually I don’t have to go to the… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
7 years ago

” For the vast majority of Mankind’s existence the elite men had all of the women, and somehow the rest of the men didn’t die from vagina-hunger.”
Absolute crap. You just made that up. Are you sure you’re not LivingTreeeeeeee?

Tilikum
7 years ago

@Entropy

Astute. When you have nothing you become everything.

Down that road is true value, true power.

Well stated.

stuttie
7 years ago

Williams opened up about his money problems in a Parade magazine interview last year in which he mentioned how hard it was to deal with divorce.

In September last year, Williams admitted he was forced to return to TV acting after three decades and sell his $35 million house because his two costly divorces left him on the verge of bankruptcy.

“Divorce is expensive. I used to joke they were going to call it ‘all the money’, but they changed it to ‘alimony’. It’s ripping your heart out through your wallet,” Williams said.

George
George
7 years ago

To “Jacklabare” In response to your post “jacklabear” August 12th, 2014 at 12:53 pm Here is George’s message, mostly delivered around the time of Game Changers: “Nurture trumps nature, so all this ev-psych stuff is crap. Real men don’t need game. You’re a real man, aren’t you? Then don’t bother with game.” And no George, I don’t personally believe the above. I think it’s bullshit posturing.” You must have me confused with someone else or you didn’t explain yourself sufficiently. Either you were confused or intoxicated when you read whatever and responded. Nevertheless, I have written you off as unredeemable,… Read more »

George
George
7 years ago

MSimon

Kudos to you in reference to Patton and some of your other comments.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you seem to be relating (what I perceive at least). If you haven’t read “Empire of The Summer Moon”, I recommend it and I am curious what your thoughts would be concerning it. It is a great read and an eye opener to the truth of human nature.

Plagio
Plagio
7 years ago

Mgtow is slow suicide? Hm. Mgtow don’t suffer from pussy-addiction. We dont spend decades inside a gym. We don’t venerate roissy. We dont worry about ex boyfriends, stds, false rape reports, alimony, Child-suport etc. I do see the need for blue pillers – and most red pillers are a Shade more blue, but i dont really care. Relationships are deAd. Christianity is dead. Europe is dead.usa is dead. The white man is dead. As one of the last true europeans, i don’t cAre.

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
7 years ago

”Cubicle warrior? Too funny. I spent my vacation in ’66 in the South China Sea. On a little tub you never heard of DLG(N)-25. Watched planes fly off CVA(N)-65. When I wasn’t tending the (N) as an RO.” War? Why would there be war in Europe? Hitler tried to rule Europe with his military, he lost and dozens of millions died,. Now Germany dominates Europe via strict imposed financial discipline, trade, and culture. It won’t take long for Europe to become the USG,. United states of Germany. War is outdated and the middle east is a military threat? What are… Read more »

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[…] Open hypergamy. Related: Women don’t even trying to hide their AF/BB strategy. […]

Theo Ross
Theo Ross
7 years ago

At the end of the day it is up to the man to keep the woman in check. that is the practicality and that is what matters.

M Simon
7 years ago

Theo Ross August 13th, 2014 at 3:09 am At the end of the day it is up to the man to keep the woman in check. that is the practicality and that is what matters. A man after my own heart. George August 12th, 2014 at 11:44 pm Haven’t read it but I just read an excerpt. It is interesting that they went from dominant to submissive in a generation. They followed the old rules – kill your enemies. The better way is to outsmart them. Turn them. Make them submit. Put them in a place where following your dictates… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

The proof that alphaness is the cause of births? The post WW2 baby boom. And betaness – the baby dearth from the 30s. What else does alphaness buy you? Wealth creation. Look at our basement boys. Because they will not be “slaves” to women and children they create no wealth. Women and children require an excess of wealth.

The mistake the basement boys make is in thinking that since the laws are stacked against them they have no other option. But this site and many others are proof that they do. If they can reach their inner alpha.

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
7 years ago

“Genetic engineering will be used to not only defeat the low birth rates, but we will breed an European race with no flaws and no limits.”

That reminds me, I haven’t ever played the Wolfenstein game the kids gave me for my b’day a few years back. One day, when I get the time, maybe.

M Simon
7 years ago

Genetic engineering will be used to not only defeat the low birth rates, but we will breed an European race with no flaws and no limits.

And the resources needed to run this operation? And the manpower to raise the children? Or will they be crated fully grown with their heads filled with the right stuff?

But suppose we can do it in 100 years. Will Europe as we know it exists in sufficient form to carry out the dream?

There is quite a bit we don’t know yet. Quite a bit more than quite a bit.

stuttie
7 years ago

@ Glenn – epic post +1

M Simon
7 years ago

Professor Von Hardwiggs
August 12th, 2014 at 5:16 pm

Stop believing this fairy tale that women of long ago were real women.

Real women are deceptive, greedy, and are only looking out for themselves. Women never cared about men, and they will even destroy the Alpha male after they got from him what they wanted(sex, genetic material, whatever it is).

Oh. Yeah.

M Simon
7 years ago

Glenn August 12th, 2014 at 11:53 am All the endowments in the world won’t do you any good with the wrong attitude. I had a beta attitude until age 18 and by age 30 I had an alpha attitude. It helped. I think I have stated that a change in attitude will not make a 5 into a 10. But it can make a 5 into a 7. And if the 5 is acting 0? Well getting up to 7 is a considerable improvement. All I can tell you is that my SMV at 18 was 0 and by age… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

My great uncle got his tongue shot off in the war. He doesn’t talk about it much.

Blueplillprofessor
Blueplillprofessor
7 years ago

@m Simon: “Anyone can do it” (have a happy marriage and dominate your wife.

This is not correct. You are generalizing from your own experience with your mate. Dominating an openly rebellious woman is almost impossible. God himself couldn’t do it so how can you be so sure?

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

George August 12th, 2014 at 11:38 pm You must have me confused with someone else or you didn’t explain yourself sufficiently. Either you were confused or intoxicated when you read whatever and responded. Nevertheless, I have written you off as unredeemable, maybe your not, yet you seem so to me. What the hell is up with the teddy bear icon anyway? Seems strangely perverted beta.” No, I don’t believe I mistook you for someone else. Your post is in character as I described. But you have mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about you considering me redeemable or… Read more »

GhostOfJefferson
GhostOfJefferson
7 years ago

Lots of talking over each other going on here. May I add another voice to the discussion? First, I’m mid 40’s (Gen X), and smack dab in between the worlds of Simon, and the 20 something men posting here. I think both sides are missing some points, and both sides have some valid points. First off, to the 20 something’s, Simon is right about young guys reeking of basement dwelling loserdom. Christ you can practically smell it like a stench cloud of beta from their flaccid bodies and sallow sad sack faces, and unfortunately, they are basically the new normal… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

Blueplillprofessor
August 13th, 2014 at 12:45 pm

@m Simon: “Anyone can do it” (have a happy marriage and dominate your wife.

Dominating an openly rebellious woman is almost impossible.

They all are openly rebellious. But it can be done. If you intend to do it. The key is your “almost”.

So why put in the effort? Children that grow up in intact families do better.

M Simon
7 years ago

GhostOfJefferson August 13th, 2014 at 1:01 pm These girls are awful, they are nothing like the pool of women he, and to a much lesser degree, I, had access to in our day. Finding one not covered head to toe in ink and piercings is difficult at best. Agree about that. Totally. I just don’t see much of that in my neck of the woods. I live in a town of about 150K and that sort of thing is not very fashionable. And it is not the ink so much – which is bad enough. It is all the metal… Read more »

GhostOfJefferson
GhostOfJefferson
7 years ago

Howdy. There are isolated pockets of 1950’s America still to be found, but they are getting rarer. I would not want to be 20 years old in today’s culture, unless I could be exactly who I am now (e.g. – not a mango a, hipster or metrosexual or pseudo- fag emasculated “guy”).

Yeah, Jeffersonian libertarian myself. Nice to meet you too.

GhostOfJefferson
GhostOfJefferson
7 years ago

Heh, mangina, not “mango A”.

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

Oh M Simon, you incorrigible blowhard you! Your hubris is showing. Did I rile something up when I encouraged guys to look a little higher up the food chain for who’s been shafting them the most? You say we’re headed for an era of unprecedented wealth. Who do you mean by “we”? The Boomers are 40% of the population and the entitlements they authored for themselves are based on two taxpayers for every retiree. And they expect to live another, what, 30 years after retirement? That is, when they finally vacate the jobs the next generations are still locked out… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

@ M Simon

You mentioned that your daughter doesn’t seem to be interested in men.
Did she perchance take any ‘women’s studies’ courses along with her ChemE?
I have a niece who graduated from a private college with a liberal arts degree with women’s study courses. I was shocked at some of the misandrist hate speech she uttered. I don’t see any way she can now have a good relationship with a man.

M Simon
7 years ago

jacklabear August 13th, 2014 at 1:54 pm I think it is the case that she was in the environment. Her current ideal is an equal relationship with a guy. I tried to tell her how that would end in disaster. She was having none of it. Case closed for now. She resents greatly how I dominate her mother. She is not going to allow that – ever. Of course her mother was not going to allow it either. Heh. From what I can tell she dated mostly betas. Maybe only betas. She is headed for the left coast. SF Bay… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

“From what I can tell she dated mostly betas. Maybe only betas.”

Interesting, a 9.5 dating betas.

What about my hypothesis that betas are now actually getting laid more than ever before?

M Simon
7 years ago

D-Man August 13th, 2014 at 1:49 pm Despite being in the Boomer generation, I am not of the Boomer generation – politically. And most of what you ascribe to the Boomers was initiated by FDR. I despise the Progressives of the Left and the Progressives of the Right. And I’m not too fond of betas. There is no need for it. And your prescription is to try and dominate that carrot into being fresh and wholesome again? Better speak with the farmers. You can train the farm animals, dogs, and to a somewhat lesser extent cats. If you want to.… Read more »

GhostOfJefferson
GhostOfJefferson
7 years ago

Dating a beta does not mean having sex with a beta. It means that a beta is allowed to buy her free shit and be seen with her I public on occasion.

M Simon
7 years ago

jacklabear
August 13th, 2014 at 2:19 pm

The betas she was dating didn’t look like they were getting laid. And BTW they weren’t betas in looks or body build. Just attitude. AFCs.

She is not one of the loose women of her generation. I’m not sure how I feel about that. Despite her looks it makes her uncompetitive. OTOH she is holding out for what she wants. Definitely an alpha female. It is going to take a VERY dominant male to tame her.

M Simon
7 years ago

http://news.yahoo.com/could-islamic-militants-iraq-bring-fight-america-221727036.html As the Islamic State gains ground and enlarges its pool of foreign fighter recruits, it is increasingly likely to attack on American soil as well. That has been the warning coming from some lawmakers and defense analysts this week, who argue that the United States has de facto declared war on the Islamic State by launching air strikes against IS positions, and now it must steel itself for foreign militants to bring the fight to the US. I do not think that anything will save the country: unless through war and revolution, when those who wish to survive will… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

GhostOfJefferson August 13th, 2014 at 2:28 pm “Dating a beta does not mean having sex with a beta. It means that a beta is allowed to buy her free shit and be seen with her I public on occasion.” Yes, I know what the stereotype is. What I’m questioning is how true or prevalent it is. Keep in mind that there is a lot of self selection amongst manosphere readers and commenters. So, has anyone been able to find historical male average N count data going back over 70 years? Any other ideas on how to verify the n rate… Read more »

GhostOfJefferson
GhostOfJefferson
7 years ago

I’m not in the school that calls men 70 years ago beta, sorry, so I have no stats. Men 70 years ago controlled their women, controlled their fate, fought in bars, drank like fish, played poker on Friday nights without asking permission from any woman and often had a mistress or two on the side. Even the peaceful highly Christian men did not put up with the shit even the so called dancing clown “alphas” put up with today from women. This labeling business only applies today. 70 years ago these “betas” would have kicked your arse and threw it… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

It’s always easier to fuck something up than it is to build it.

I’d be more worried about the IS getting its hands on what the Los Alamos boys worked out – even just a dirty version of it – and using it on Israel. Iron Dome = efficient radioactive dispersal.

Hell, even in Gaza itself, as a pyrrhic victory, rendering uninhabitable the dirt strip everyone seems to think is so important.

M Simon
7 years ago

I only have one data point. Back in the 60s or 70s I read that Jewish men had on average 12 sex partners before they got married and that was because they married later by about a decade.

So one a year.

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

It’s interesting, GhostofJefferson, how enamored the hipsters are with the iconography of that era though. Dressing like lumberjacks in urban centres, growing long beards, drinking “authentic small batch” whiskeys and strong ales, tatting up like sailors.

Trying, desperately, to reclaim it. Sad.

The greater question is: Who set the gears grinding towards the current state of things?

It has most certainly been engineered.

M Simon, you’re an engineer. Who has been pulling the strings?

GhostOfJefferson
GhostOfJefferson
7 years ago

They have no masculinity and seem to be trying to compensate for it by displaying the regalia of masculine men. End of the day though just because Richard Simmons puts on a green beret, it doesn’t mean he is a member of the 9th Special Forces.

M Simon
7 years ago

D-Man
August 13th, 2014 at 3:32 pm

Dirty bombs are over rated. And nukes are not easy even if you have one already assembled.

Why Arabs Lose Wars
http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_17/articles/deatkine_arabs1.html

Bottom line: culture.

Magent
Magent
7 years ago

“That has been the warning coming from some lawmakers and defense analysts this week, who argue that the United States has de facto declared war on the Islamic State by launching air strikes against IS positions, and now it must steel itself for foreign militants to bring the fight to the US.” I know this is not a political blog, but I gotta respond to this… By definition, radical Islam is at war with the United States, and the Islamic State being part of radical Islam, we are already at war with them. Some people desperately want this to NOT… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

D-Man August 13th, 2014 at 3:39 pm As far as I can tell the big money men have dreams of world domination. Their main sticking point is America. If they can’t disarm the nation, a nation of betas is second best. But that only works if they boil the frogs slowly. If the boiling goes too fast…. They also dream of population reduction. Look at Obama’s Science Adviser Holdren in that respect. The idea of letting ISIS into America would go counter to their plans. OTOH the current economic conditions keep people depressed. So that helps. The only way out… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

Well, there ya go, good job.

The way your basement boys appear to see it, the big money men’s game is hopelessly rigged, and massively corrupt. And so is the marriage one. So, in their eyes, they ARE showing self-respect by not being suckers. They don’t wanna be anyone’s farm animals.

I guess it’s all optics.

Definitely, more entrepreneurship, less big government.

Rest assured many are working on *cough* empirical research of the endocannabinoid system.

M Simon
7 years ago

Just got the daughter to give me the “lecture” and got her to tell me that she hadn’t taken any women’s studies courses.

She has bought into the blank slate theory. There is no genetic determination.

M Simon
7 years ago

D-Man
August 13th, 2014 at 4:32 pm

Of course it is all rigged. And you will not get it unrigged unless you fight.

I favor the Jeffersonian ideal of a nation of small shop keepers and small landholders. We have gone far too far in the European direction of big companies.

The Maker movement is a step in the right direction.

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

M Simon

August 13th, 2014 at 4:37 pm

“She has bought into the blank slate theory. There is no genetic determination.”

That ‘theory’ is easily falsifiable. In one month old babies, boys spend more time looking at mechanical objects and girls at faces. Same with other primates.
What happened to her intelligence?

M Simon
7 years ago

Well, look at what my blog Master wrote in 2003.

http://classicalvalues.com/2003/12/some_thoughts_o/

I’ll stay with the word “emo” because I prefer the simplicity of a three letter word. As opposed to (for example), “lonely-clinically-depressed-young-man-whose-lack-of-self-esteem-is-matched-only-by-a-total-hatred-of-all-conformity-and-a-fuck-you-attitude-toward-the-world-with-resultant-refusal-to-engage-in-social-phoniness-who’ll-therefore-never-score-with-women-and-whose-natural-bisexuality-fuels-his-hatred-of-the-hypocrisy-of-everyone-else-so-he-hangs-out-at-gay-bars-and-gets-loaded-and-maybe-hustles-maybe-meets-interesting-people-and-maybe-falls-in-love.”

M Simon
7 years ago

jacklabear
August 13th, 2014 at 5:11 pm

Her intelligence get overridden by her belief. Humans are like that. Generally.

D-Man
D-Man
7 years ago

Fight who? How?

Otherwise, yeah… along with food production, electricity generation, and bartering, all on smaller, more localized, fractal scales. Essentially, Black Swan robustness.

But the elites need to accept a few things:

corporations are not people,

money is not speech,

people are not property,

perpetual growth is unsustainable,

and the free exchange of ideas is not only unstoppable, it is the only thing that will save us all.

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