Case Study – Low Expectations

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I’ve often been quoted of the following – “Marriage is no insulation from the sexual marketplace” – and at the risk of piling on to what I initially knew would be the click-bait du jour of the blogosphere this week, I was reminded of this quote as I read through the now infamous spreadsheet of sexual excuses as compiled by a 26 year old husband for a 26 year old wife.

You’ll have to excuse my tardiness in posting this week, but I wanted to allow this story some time to develop before I threw my hat in the ring. My expectation was that most takes on this sex denial log would be from a unilaterally feminine-primary perspective and predictably ridicule the husband for his efforts while absolving his wife of any culpability for her ‘reasons’ for not wanting to get after it with him.

Needless to say I wasn’t disappointed, but as an added bonus we got an indignant insight into what a feminine-primary culture expects men not to expect in marriage (spoiler alert, PUAs called this long before Feministing did).

There’s a lot to unpack here, so I’ll begin with the most obvious issues first.

The most glaring omission I’ve read in most of the posts regarding this couple so far is that, in a blatant effort to lessen the negative impact on the wife, very few bloggers have included the entire Reddit post to draw conclusions from:

 

Zreanes

The first thing we have to do is a bit of Red Pill math to understand the context in which this situation takes place. We have a couple that married young by modern standards. Both are 26 and have been married for 2 years (i.e. married at 24).

Furthermore they’d been monogamous for 3 years prior, thus they met and paired up at the age of 21.

This is as much as we know about their history, but in context we’re looking at a guy who in all likelihood married a 24 year old girl for the same feminine conditioned, idealistic reasons he had for pairing up with her at 21.

I don’t have any evidence to support the idea that this guy married his wife due to religious convictions, but I don’t think it’s too far a stretch to presume they had somewhat regular sex in the 3 years prior to marrying.

I also can’t confirm that either party had sex with anyone else prior to their meeting at 21, but if we consider that both likely had average sexual experiences between 18-21 we’re only talking about a window of around 4 years in which either had any opportunity to experience anyone else before they met.

I’m establishing this because if I had to speculate, both are the husband and wife are operating from Adolescent Social Skill Sets, and thus have no real frame of adult reference learned through dating (LTR or STR) with which they can base their expectations in marriage.

However, as we’ll see in a moment, a fem-centric culture is only too willing to fill in the blanks of that lack of social reference for them.

Spreadsheet Guy

A woman’s imagination is the single most useful tool in your Game arsenal.

Every technique, every casual response, every gesture, intimation and subcommunication hinges on stimulating her imagination. Competition anxiety relies on it. DHV (demonstrating higher value) relies on it. Sexual tension (‘gina tingles) relies on it. Call it “Caffeinating the Hamster” if you will, but stimulating a woman’s imaginings is the single most potent talent you can learn in any context of a relationship (LTR, STR, ONS, Plate Spinning.)

Spreadsheet Guy is learning this now no doubt. He’s done what most men do: attempt to litigate with evidence and deductively solve his problem by appealing to his wife’s reason with a token effort to enforce his ‘being in the right’ by exposing her to a marginal amount of dread.

What he fails to account for is that even if she responds with more frequent sex, any sex they do have will be the compromised result of her negotiated obligation, not her genuine, motivated desire.

The frame you enter into monogamy/marriage with sets the tone for your future relationship. Spreadsheet Guy is simply following the male deductive approach to problem solving and making appeals to his wife’s reason by graphically showing her (and now all of the internet) the evidence of his correctness.

Why Women Can’t ‘Just Get It‘

Appealing to women’s logic and relying on deductive reasoning to sort it out is the calling card of a Beta mind. There is nothing more anti-seductive for women than appealing to her reason. Arousal, attraction, sexual tension, subcommunication of desire, all happen indirectly and below the social surface for women.

It’s not that women are incapable of reasoning (hypergamy is one logical bitch) or are crippled by their emotion-based hindbrains, it’s that if you’re asking her how to be more attractive you don’t Get It. It’s in the doing, not the asking.

I can’t fault the guy for his effort; he simply hasn’t learned that women never want full disclosure of anything – and particularly anything that shines an unflattering light on them.

Nothing is more gratifying for a woman than to believe she’s figured out a man using her mythical ‘feminine intuition’. Spreadsheet Guy doesn’t give her the option to use her imagination and solve the puzzle – just like most guys who believe the trope that ‘open communication is the key to a good relationship®’ he spells it out for her in no uncertain terms – and with a marginal amount of above-board Dread he expects (I presume) the problem with her sexual frequency will be solved for him.

From The Desire Dynamic:

From a male perspective, and particularly that of an uninitiated beta male, negotiation of desire seems a rational solution to the problem. Men tend to innately rely on deductive reasoning; otherwise known as an “if then” logic stream.

The code is often something like this: I need sex + women have the sex I want + query women about their conditions for sex + meet prerequisites for sex = the sex I want.

One very important element of Spreadsheet Guy’s actions that needs to be understood is the convenient comparisons being made in regard to the transactional nature of sex, and the expectations men (and to a lesser degree women) place on their conditions for sex.

Of course the first feminist retort is that men should never have any expectation under any circumstance of receiving the gift of a woman’s sexuality for any reason other than that she wants to fuck him.

Naturally this becomes problematic under the auspices of marriage wherein a man’s default presumption is that he is, if not entitled to, then certainly can expect to some extent that his wife will have sex with him.

This situation represents an illustration of the great schism between the old order social contract of marriage, wherein a man had a reasonable expectation of sex with his wife, and the new feminine-primary order wherein a man has absolutely no right, expectation or privilege to his wife’s sexuality.

Unfortunately for men the great deception of this schism serves the Feminine Imperative in that it still conveniently convinces men that they can expect sex while simultaneously shaming them for the expectation that feminine-primacy tells them they should expect.

This double-speak is necessary to insuring the certainty of long-term security needs that women’s dualistic sexual strategy demands.

Consider Choreplay: 5 years ago the same female author encourages men to do more dishes and help a woman out with her domestic chores because “nothing’s sexier” than a man who ‘shares’ the housework.

Translation: Perform these tasks and you will be rewarded with the “unadulterated lust” your wife has been reluctant to deliver – i.e. negotiated desire.

5 years later…“Households with a more traditional gender division of labor report higher sexual frequency than households with less traditional gender divisions of labor,”

So the only conclusion we can really draw from this is that women encourage exactly the transactional mentality about sex that they now complain all men feel they are “owed”.

Spreadsheet Guy was caught in this presumptive trap – prior to marriage he’s sold the idea that he can expect his wife to be sexual with him on a regular basis, but only after he’s taken measures to prove that his wife isn’t upholding her end of the marriage bargain is he told that he in fact has absolutely no privilege to his wife’s sexuality under any circumstance – and furthermore that she holds unilateral control over his own sexual fulfillment under penalty of breach of (marriage) contract.

Spreadsheet Wife

As I began earlier, an entire social support network is more than ready to fill in the blanks left by Spreadsheet Wife’s lack of social reference.

The most obvious form of this comes from the comments and encouragement of women and feminized men affirming her prefabricated understanding of ‘what sex should be after marriage’.

Our sex life HAS tapered in the last few months, but isn’t that allowed?

If you need confirmation of the double-speak about sexual entitlement I outlined above you’ll find it in the words of the same woman before and after she’s married.

This is yet one more ready-made social convention for women to default to after she’s secured the provider-male her hypergamy demands in marriage. A woman’s sexual appetites are expected to “taper” off and she should be “allowed” this tapering and have a man understand and accept this fact.

Once again, The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies:

For one sex’s sexual strategy to become realized, the other sex’s strategy must be compromised or abandoned entirely.

And again, the Roissy / Heartist Prime Directive of Feminism:

The goal of feminism is to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality

After all the back and forth I’ve been reading about this spreadsheet I think it’s time for men to come to terms with how the social contract that used to be marriage has fundamentally changed.

Marriage is no insulation from the sexual marketplace.

The advantages of being single and indefinitely dating non-exclusively (Spinning Plates) or stringing along a series of short term monogamous affairs far outweigh the risks of a lifetime of marriage in which no man should ever expect sex in terms of either genuine desire or even uninspired obligation sex.

In other words, men are entirely powerless to effect any degree of control over their sex lives under the auspices of a now feminine-primary definition of marriage. The only condition under which men have any degree of exercisable control over the their sex life is remaining single and retaining the threat-point of exiting any relationship when that satisfaction declines.

In Appreciation I went into detail about how women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make to facilitate a feminine reality; this situation is a prime example of this.

Women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the risks a man must assume in unilaterally relinquishing any degree of control he might’ve been able to realize over his own sex life – and never to expect he could ever even have that control.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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jf12
jf12
5 years ago

Hey Rollo, I don’t know if you’ve added this study to your pile yet:
http://fusion.net/modern_life/story/nice-girls-finish-study-shows-891658

Men prefer nice girls. Women dis-prefer nice guys.

Gurit E. Birnbaum, Tsachi Ein-Dor, Harry T. Reis, and Noam Segal. 2014.
Why Do Men Prefer Nice Women? Gender Typicality Mediates the Effect of Responsiveness on Perceived Attractiveness in Initial Acquaintanceships. Pers Soc Psychol Bull, 0146167214543879, first published on July 25, 2014 doi:10.1177/0146167214543879.

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/07/11/0146167214543879.abstract

LiveFearless
5 years ago

Rollo Tomassi’s The Desire Dynamic chapter has become famous young and the young at heart !!!

M Simon
5 years ago

LiveFearless
July 28th, 2014 at 12:17 am

Well that was interesting. Could you explain it. In simple language and short sentences? Who was the narrator? Was it bits of sound pieced together? Or some one actually reading?

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

I thought I posted this here but I guess not.
http://www.newsweek.com/study-finds-men-nice-women-not-other-way-around-261269?piano_d=1

Birnbaum et al find that men prefer nice, but women do not prefer nice.

Glenn
Glenn
5 years ago

@ WaterCannonboy – No it did not “miss the joke”, rather I didn’t spend the time to even get what you are talking about. The comment stream is getting interesting again though, particularly the stuff on Dalrock from M Simon and some if12 stuff, but I don’t really invest here beyond getting information and sharing my experiences in a real way. To even figure out what you are talking about is an investment I don’t want to make, yeah? My life is in the real world, not on comment sections of manosphere blogs. One of the huge wake up calls… Read more »

Rol
Rol
5 years ago

Anon2

She misinterpreted your response as a parting insult, which can happen through text. If you said “I’m glad you were honest,” she wouldn’t have lashed out.

Personally, I would’ve just said “OK,” and left it at that.

Glenn
Glenn
5 years ago

Also should have added that YoungGuy is a great contribution. A real life story, a real person struggling with the Red Pill in a real situation. Fantastic stuff, thanks for it. See you guys next article.

Nathan
Nathan
5 years ago

Hi M Simon,
I read your post about political parties existing appropriately within their own ecological niches. I agree.

However, remember that politics is a religion substitute. A creation of the state to make us believe the state is a god substitute.

The sooner we give up this false consciousnesd (like the Amish) the better

M Simon
5 years ago

Mr Ed
July 28, 2014 at 3:26 pm

Humans are “designed” to worship something. I have decided to pick something so stupid that not even I could believe it. To keep the dysfunction to a minimum and the rationality to a maximum.

Hail Ra!

On alternate Thursdays it is plants. I feed them by either burning coal or turning on all the gas burners for 5 minutes. Plants love CO2. Of course in winter around here the worship is automatic. Very convenient.

Kate
Kate
5 years ago

M Simon: Thanks for all the links! Mark doesn’t read comments, but I showed him the pages. re all the tweets: Its absolutely silly for a man who writes all kinds of defamatory articles to cry foul when it happens to him. I brought this up at D & P and it was, of course, deleted. Do you really feel Tucker Max owes Roosh an apology, Rollo? Do you think Roosh owes Mark an apology? He stole Mark’s comments from here and republished them without his knowledge or permission. He then proceeded to write defamatory articles about him encouraging others… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago
Reply to  Kate

Kate,

Thank you? Who is Mark? I’m not familiar with that contretemps.

As to what I’m doing? I have learned a couple of things and being an old man I have an old man’s vices. I hope to pass along a little of what I have learned in the hopes of saving anyone who pays attention a little trouble.

Kate
Kate
5 years ago

Mark is Mark Minter. Oh, well, when we got engaged last year, Roosh, Rollo, etc. all flipped their lids and contributed to pages upon pages of defamatory articles that are now permanent residents in Google. I like to remind them of what they did from time to time to show their readers their hypocrisy in their claim to “help” men. When they in fact had the chance to do so in a real way, they did the exact opposite and gave the stage over to his ex-wife to air her complaints. They completely abandoned him and took her word as… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Kate,

Thanks for that! I’m going to look up Mark and see what I can do to help.

Contact me if I can do something for you. What kind of work are you into? Mark?

My e-mail is on the sidebar of Power and Control. Contact me if you think it would help.

Glenn
Glenn
5 years ago

All – Kate and Mark are exactly the kind of people I was referring to. I wonder, how many here know that for a while, Kate would spout really ugly racist rhetoric on her blog? She hid it behind “racial realism” claptrap, but that’s easy to see through. Consider carefully taking advice from these people. Would you do so in the real world? Or would you steer clear of them or just laugh at them? Me? Such people never even make into the social and business circles I operate in – they are the human detritus good, productive, serious people… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Kate, From what little I know of you – from here and reading a few posts at your blog – there is a fair chance marriage will work for you and Mark. I don’t think I could raise another man’s child (I did have a girlfriend once with 9 children – introduced the first mate to her some years after it was over) so if he (and you) pulls it off more power to you both. Since you both know the “rules” it will be both more difficult and easier. As I said – let me know what I can… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
5 years ago

M Simon,

“Humans are “designed” to worship something.”

What about hyper-rational hard core INTP mechanistic naturalist iconoclast engineers like me?

Ra Ra Ra!

M Simon
5 years ago

Glenn
July 28th, 2014 at 4:14 pm

Well that doesn’t bother me. I have written posts on the Bell Curve. My best friend (a black guy) lives in my house. One of my best friends in high school was a black guy. Reality is not necessarily racism. In fact my black friend and I have often discussed “what is wrong with those people”.

Is it possible I’m taking an unwarranted chance? Wouldn’t be the first time. Can I make it work? Never tell me the odds.

M Simon
5 years ago

jacklabear
July 28th, 2014 at 4:23 pm

There is probably something you take on faith.

Amen-Ra. The origin of Amen.

http://www.touregypt.net/amen.htm

M Simon
5 years ago

Rollo Tomassi
July 28th, 2014 at 4:26 pm

All women are like that. I don’t hold it against them.

Evidently Kate (from what I can tell) knows she is like that. I see that as both a help and a hindrance

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

Re: Tucker. Is his father’s money running out already?

M Simon
5 years ago

Rollo, Rationality is over rated. And I say that as a person who makes his living from extreme rationality. The irrational part of life comprises 90% in my estimation. I can’t tell you how often I’ve embarked on a course based on feeling. It just may be that my neural net is fairly well trained. But I always try to double check to the best of my ability to be sure I’m not being led astray by my “feelings”. FWIW I have a feeling for Kate. Not romantic. Or “hot”. Just that she is interesting. As I may have mentioned… Read more »

Kate
Kate
5 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

A reputation in the “manosphere” is hardly worth protecting, Rollo. You do know that, right?

Kate
Kate
5 years ago

Thank you for your kindness, M Simon 🙂

Giovanny
Giovanny
5 years ago

“It’s a really brilliant marketing strategy that I’m sure Tucker will congratulate himself over; the only problem is that Rick Raw…[has] already been using this ‘false-flag red pill’ revenue model successfully for over 4 years now.”

Wait, how exactly is RIck Raw (therawness) pushing the ‘false-flag red pill’?

I get that the guy comes off as some armchair physiologist but nothing about him strikes me as a phony, aside from his negligence of HBD truths.
If you could, I would appreciate if you could expand further.

Mart
Mart
5 years ago

M Simon, you have a “feeling” for Kate because she complimented you. It is the same kind of feeling any alpha, beta, or omega gets when a passably attractive woman — or in case of the Internet interactions, any woman — pays positive attention to him. She is “interesting” to you for that very reason. Not that there is anything wrong with it. The Minter Affair is a pure sociopathic gold, from every possible angle: the main players, their interactions, the cat-fight fallout complete with collective pearl clutching and laments about the end of manosphere — all a perfect illustration… Read more »

Kate
Kate
5 years ago

Who wants to be associated with the manosphere? It outed itself as a childish joke last summer: little men who hadn’t the experience to understand its more mature members. Nothing but a mob scene of cattle unwilling to think. Look at the alexa ratings and it becomes very clear what kinds of people are involved. Reference what happened to SSM. See how Dalrock’s sick commenters are bringing down his site. Notice the caveat Heartiste has posted about his comment section. The manosphere as it was known (a cooperative salon of intelligent people) is over. Now its some sort of medieval… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Rollo, Ran into this comment at: http://www.returnofkings.com/14846/mark-minter-is-a-phony#comment-979655125 Slowly the reality dawns on us that we’re not just refugees from a system designed to enslave us, that suffers no dissidence but that we’re actually fighting a holy war for our very sense of self. That is one of the most pathetic declarations I have ever read in my life. I have always taken to heart what Krishna said to Arjuna, “Get up and fight.” The meek ain’t going to inherit shite. They are going to be road kill. When I was a small boy I wanted what all boys wanted –… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Mart
July 28th, 2014 at 5:54 pm

Of course. Who wants to waste time with humans where the other humans involved aren’t interested. That is why I played Game the way I did. It insured at least a minimum of interest. I still play that way.

M Simon
5 years ago

And Mart,

That rule is not just for women. It applies to men and women. I’m not interested in followers, groupies, or 100,000 facebook “friends”. I’m interested in people who want to do something and can use my help.

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

Kate – helping to lower expectations …

jacklabear
jacklabear
5 years ago

Hi Kate,

Thank you for the kind note and offer to help a couple weeks ago.
I feel remiss in not having acknowledged that till now.

M Simon
5 years ago

Let us suppose for the sake of argument the “Manosphere” got everything it wanted. An end to no fault divorce and all the rest. What will you have? Almost exactly what you have now because women will still be women. In fact the only cure is for men to be Men. So why bitch? The rules are still the same. Get the best woman you can and dominate her. What should you in fact be looking for? A woman who prefers your method of domination. And it would be good if she likes you. Very good. It gets you over… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
5 years ago

M Simon, I agree with you on both counts. Rationality has limited value. Even W. Edwards Deming said that the most important things can’t be measured. I have gotten a lot more mileage out of intuition (subconscious background processing) than analysis in my engineering career. It allowed me to design an instrument with world record performance (that held for two years with competitors like Tektronix, HP, Siemens, Schlumberger, Anritsu etc) with my humble BSEE from a State University. I only escalate the analysis beyond mental approximations as needed. I must have faith in something. Yes, I realized I do. My… Read more »

kelleher
kelleher
5 years ago

@Mart
your sociopath fetish is hardly a useful utilization of your time is it

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

Well, I did it, I finally visited that Mating Grounds site. You’re right. Every single bit of advice Tucker is now saying is 180° opposite to what he found had worked in real life for a decade (or more, counting his party-hardy ways all through highs school and college). It’s like he’s trying to stifle competition by sending men through the wrong door. And Doktor Miller’s counseling comes from the same rainbow place where Swedish bikini model choose brainy men. What a mess. And they expect people i.e. men will buy it?

M Simon
5 years ago

jacklabear
July 28th, 2014 at 8:02 pm

There is always that inner beta – and it is occasionally useful. When she decides to be your slave you should be kind to her. Not give up dominance. Besides – it is good for the children to see you treating your mate well.

BTW loved reading about your design intuition. I agree.

M Simon
5 years ago

jf12
July 29th, 2014 at 12:22 am

And Doktor Miller’s counseling comes from the same rainbow place where Swedish bikini model choose brainy men.

But they do like brainy men. If the man is dominant. The first mate and I discuss it when she is having one of her rational moments. Brains was one of the things she was looking for.

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

@M Simon, actually, no. The more intelligent the man (and this is NOT limited to geniuses), the fewer women choose him to be a sexual partner, and it’s quite monotonically decreasing. Period. The *highest* number of female sexual partners is when the man has IQ 85-95, NOT e.g. 110-125.

What comes out of women’s mouths has evolved to be part of their sexual deception, btw, which includes but is not limited to concealed ovulation.

M Simon
5 years ago

jf12 July 29th, 2014 at 8:28 am Interesting. And probably correct. Which makes me think back to why I did so well. Probably because I was in so many college towns. Or gravitated to the places the smarter women congregated at. Or just wanted to get laid and temporarily “settled”. Which say that there are always things you can do to improve your chances no matter what the odds. And even doing what I did my odds were reduced because I preferred Cs and Ds. Which is mostly what I got. Sometimes two at a time. “The Bell Curve” goes… Read more »

The Burninator
The Burninator
5 years ago

@Glenn

My life is in the real world, not on comment sections of manosphere blogs.

688 words on a single post, of many, to say that you don’t care about the comment section of the manosphere.

Kind of made my eyeballs do that Looney Toons “pop out of the head” thing.

The Burninator
The Burninator
5 years ago

@jf12 @M Simon, actually, no. The more intelligent the man (and this is NOT limited to geniuses), the fewer women choose him to be a sexual partner, and it’s quite monotonically decreasing. Period. The *highest* number of female sexual partners is when the man has IQ 85-95, NOT e.g. 110-125. What comes out of women’s mouths has evolved to be part of their sexual deception, btw, which includes but is not limited to concealed ovulation. Poppycock. The higher IQ man, if he’s socially aware and adept, can easily obtain highly desirable men. You’re working on what appears to be a… Read more »

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

It ought to be highly amusing to truly intelligent men that Scott Barry Kaufmann and Geoffrey Miller, among other psychologists, are so bent by reality that they are forced to redefine intelligence, in order to try to persuade themselves that “Cute girls really would prefer smart dudes, if only they knew. Sigh.”

The Burninator
The Burninator
5 years ago

I think we’re talking past each other here. A smart man adapts to his mating environs IF he has social awareness. Wouldn’t you agree? Not all smart men wear wire rimmed glasses, sweater vests with pocket protectors on the pocket and are pencil thin. I’m not going to talk myself up too much, but do I strike you as an idiot or drooling retard (no, seriously, do I heh)? Yet in real life you’d wouldn’t be able to tell me from any other tall, scary looking biker type. Does Rollo, a smart man by anybody’s reckoning, strike you as somebody… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

I came across this: “Mating Intelligence Unleashed: The Role of the Mind in Sex, Dating, and Love” and was thoroughly unimpressed.

jf12 – got any links?

jacklabear
jacklabear
5 years ago

Frank Zappa Find Her Finer Find her finer, sneak up behind her, Unwrap like a mummy ’til you finally unwind her. Find her, blind her, see who designed her, Act like a dummy ’til you finally grind her. If you should see a girl on the street, Now maybe you might think she is sweet, But if you wanna tickle her treat, Now really what should you do? Don’t never let her know you are smart. The universe is no place to start. You gotta play it straight from the heart, She gwine renunciate you. That’s why you gotta Find… Read more »

The Burninator
The Burninator
5 years ago

To clarify, if a smart man knows how to play the women, women are attracted to him. They can’t help it, any more than they can for the thug.

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
5 years ago

“We just bought a house 5 months ago. No kids yet.” Translation: “We chose the nest I wanted near my family. My mind is on breeding, children, and my nest. He, however, is boyishly and selfishly concerned with his selfish sexual needs. My biology is primary and universally accepted as superior.” “Our lives have been crazy busy though. We spent all spring renovating our new home.” Translation: “Our lives have been crazy busy with my nest which my husband worked every weekend, all weekend renovating to my specifications. If he’s lucky I will let him have a man-cave in the… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

What I found in my case is that a smart man with game is more attractive than a man with game and not as smart. At least the first mate thought so. She knew and dated at least three first rank gamers. One of them was me. The other two men in question? Friends of mine.

M Simon
5 years ago

http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/guys-will-your-high-iq-get-you-laid/ Young women will openly admit that they want a hulking caveman with a club, a rough and stupid type. It’s sexy. That’s what turns them on. Even high-IQ young women are like this. They often marry big dumb macho guys, and spend years of unhappiness. Finally when they are 40 and their sex drive goes down or their they gain some sense, they marry some brainy nerd for his money. And they are a lot happier. Once they start getting a bit older, women start saying that smart guys are a turn-on. Yet another female self-deception. It’s a lie.… Read more »

The Burninator
The Burninator
5 years ago

@M Simon What I found in my case is that a smart man with game is more attractive than a man with game and not as smart. At least the first mate thought so. She knew and dated at least three first rank gamers. One of them was me. The other two men in question? Friends of mine. Exactly. The football thug can attract, no question, but if an equally masculine and game aware/natural smart gent is nearby, who demonstrates not only social intelligence but also displays some of the fruits of being smart (i.e. – stylish, well groomed, well… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

M Simon
July 29th, 2014 at 1:20 pm

I should add that my two friends were better at game than I was. Their n was probably higher and maybe a lot higher.

Mike
Mike
5 years ago

“After unplugging via your blog, the most powerful red pillism every man needs to understand is “you can’t negotiate genuine desire”. That’s very true for me; I automatically get drawn into negotiating relationship (marriage) wants and needs. Then I’m frustrated when negotiated agreements aren’t fulfilled. Reading this post helped me avoid that trap just in time. Refusing to negotiate any further, I moved my thoughts back to the factors that do drive desire: high relative value, social status, attractiveness to other women. Now I try to keep my mind focused on these. Negotiating relationship wants and needs must be a… Read more »

eon
eon
5 years ago

Men with high IQs need to understand this: your intelligence, in and of itself, will neither help nor hinder you. Women are not directly attracted to intelligence, per se, but they will not reject you because of it, specifically. When intelligent men have difficulties with women, it is usually for reasons such as: 1) A lack of physical attractiveness. In addition to enhancing your appearance, consider that lifting weights (especially as a solitary activity) can facilitate and enhance your thinking processes, as well. And, except perhaps in gyms infested by immature and insecure prima donna males, nobody is going to… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

eon July 29th, 2014 at 2:42 pm Good point about the spankee. Women LOVE being made to feel powerless by a man. It totally excites them. Not all of them want to be dominated by ropes and spankings. But they ALL want to be dominated. It evokes the “my hero” circuit. BTW the Robert Lindsy link up thread? If you read his post he comes to the conclusion that only 20% can be alphas and he does not feel cut out for it. Basically he has decided to got Beta. Or more likely MGTOW. What he fails to get is… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Could some one explain MGTOW to me? They have taken the red pill and then given up. I don’t get it. Is it that if they can’t get the 8, 9, or 10 they want they don’t want anything? That seems so wimpy to me. It seems like declaring – “if I can’t have a mansion with servants, I’d rather live on the street”. Women don’t seem that dangerous to me – and yes I know the dangers – but game nullifies most of them.

Mart
Mart
5 years ago

You’re right about 1 and 2, eon, but sending unattractive and socially clueless men to a spergy site for advice on how not be spergy will not work (board games? seriously? and six kinds of flirting? this is sperginess squared). You cannot have blind leading the blind. Unless you’re ready to walk off the cliff. High intelligence is an asset. Sperginess — emotional and social cluelessness — is not. Unfortunately, many high IQ men are spergs. Instead of acknowledging it and working on it to the extent that’s possible, too many of them flock to manosphere to complain about evil… Read more »

Mart
Mart
5 years ago

Highly intelligent spergs get less sex, jf12, that’s no surprise to anyone other than spergs themselves. The less intelligent men do not have the spergy handicaps, and because of that they are more attractive to women. Another factor is distribution of intelligence and assortative mating. Male spergs may find that female spergs are attracted to them, but since there are fewer female spergs than male, most spergy guys are out of luck. Average women will be more attracted to average men than to highly intelligent ones. And since there are more average women than average men (bell curve), average men… Read more »

Mart
Mart
5 years ago

M Simon: “Women LOVE being made to feel powerless by a man. It totally excites them. Not all of them want to be dominated by ropes and spankings. But they ALL want to be dominated. It evokes the “my hero” circuit.” Only if the man is a hero material (i.e., he inspires her admiration through his physical and/or character attributes: strength, achievement, status, competence, and those need to be relative to her station in life — e.g, he does not have to be a genius, but he has to be smarter, more competent, accomplished, etc. than she is). Women do… Read more »

LiveFearless
5 years ago

Kerri Kasem (Casey’s daughter) says spreadsheet guy’s wife has CANDIDA

http://soundcloud.com/sambotta/kerri-kasem-on-spreadsheet-guy-excuses

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

Almost all clinical Asperger’s patients are normal to subnormal in IQ. Statistics do not lie, nor do people who make proper use of proper statistics and proper correlations.

eon
eon
5 years ago

M Simon, “Women LOVE being made to feel powerless by a man. It totally excites them. Not all of them want to be dominated by ropes and spankings. But they ALL want to be dominated.” This is true, and the most frequent mistake that people make is to assume that domination, and especially “ropes and spankings”, are something static, instead of something that needs to be adapted and calibrated to a particular woman. That type of domination should be applied at a level that is just a little above what she believes to be her upper limit, at that time.… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

jf12 July 29th, 2014 at 3:45 pm My first GF taught me Game (the rudiments anyway). You have heard that before. What I haven’t mentioned is that I was a student at U Chicago at the time. A place noted for selecting their students only on the basis of brains. No legacy admissions. She liked training virgins. I was. #2 Son graduated from there with honors. Very bright boy. He knows Game. We discuss it. He is turned off by the modern woman. And besides being bright he is VERY charismatic. People just love being in his presence. Something I… Read more »

eon
eon
5 years ago

Intelligence is a measure of “what is there”, and having a lot “there” creates a high contrast and thus spotlights “what is missing”. Stupid people often have a lot missing, but no one notices, because there is no contrast. Mart, in addition to his other fixations, is focusing only on those who have stuff missing. If the missing stuff is not structural, it can be developed, and intelligent people are really good at doing that, once they are given the necessary information. Intelligent people who have always been complete, or who have become complete, are instead noticed and lauded for… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

eon
July 29th, 2014 at 4:52 pm

That type of domination should be applied at a level that is just a little above what she believes to be her upper limit, at that time. This level should be just high enough to create a bit of fear as she experiences lack of control, but not so much that she cannot relax into it, but instead shuts down and just waits for it to be over.

So true. You must always exceed what she can handle. But not by too much.

M Simon
5 years ago

eon July 29th, 2014 at 4:52 pm The link is not what I’m looking for. I know the philosophy. What I don’t get is why some men choose that philosophy. OK I started reading the first chapter. I totally agree about the libertarian stuff. I’ve been one since 1988 or so. Maybe it is just monkey politics (MGTOW) Only a few want to compete with the top dog(s). The rest will settle for leftovers if they don’t have to fight. I guess that leaves 80% of the women for 20% of the men. Four wives. Now that is an interesting… Read more »

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

U Chicago is prestigious no doubt, but not less rigorous in admissions than say Duke.

Mart
Mart
5 years ago

jf12: “Almost all clinical Asperger’s patients are normal to subnormal in IQ. Statistics do not lie, nor do people who make proper use of proper statistics and proper correlations.” Does not change the fact that most highly intelligent men exhibit AS-like deficits. If you are as much as a nerd as you sound, you’re likely AS, even if not diagnosed, with all that it entails. eon: The information about dating and flirting on that site is presented in a very spergy fashion, and is not only useless (“You can always look at her, give her a big smile to thank… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

jf12 July 29th, 2014 at 5:42 pm U Chicago is prestigious no doubt, but not less rigorous in admissions than say Duke. I was thinking of places with extensive legacy admissions like Harvard. That was my only point. And if it is any comfort to you I didn’t graduate. I got more interested in girls than studying. A year later I joined the Navy and became a Naval Nuke. Two years out of the Navy I joined a MC gang. By ’76 I was working my way up to aerospace engineer (I didn’t know that when I started). As I… Read more »

Mart
Mart
5 years ago

eon: “Intelligent people who have always been complete, or who have become complete, are instead noticed and lauded for their other qualities.” Well, there are scarcely any intelligent people “who have always been complete” (whatever that means), but I agree with you that intelligent *accomplished* people are noticed and lauded for their qualities, even if they are not complete. That does not always translate into reproductive success, however, but it gives them a boost. I focus on what’s missing because it is painfully obvious that most men of the ‘sphere suffer from emotional and social deficits. This why they are… Read more »

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

re: “most highly intelligent men exhibit AS-like deficits.”

Incorrect. That’s something unintelligent people like to believe because it feels good.

M Simon
5 years ago

The problem with high IQ spergs, however, is their arrogance, which is part and parcel of their emotional blindness, and which makes them believe that they are experts in everything.

I have that. Although I tend to avoid being an expert in everything. In addition arrogance is a job qualification in some industries. That was my experience in aerospace.

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

The moving target of “There must be something wrong with you, because women have great pickers, by definition.” gets a little blurry sometimes. Where is it at now? Oh yeah, *subtle* deficits, unapparent to the casual eye, except to “trained” observers who decide by fiat. “I trained myself to declare any man who had problems with women as being the problem.”

eon
eon
5 years ago

M Simon, “So true. You must always exceed what she can handle. But not by too much.” Another important point is that the “ropes and spankings” variety is 95% psychological, when done correctly, in an intimate (non porn) setting. A lightweight implement that just stings and burns like crazy (but does no actual damage) can be effective forever. There is just one important caveat: after you are done, turn her toward a mirror and say something like “see, this is what happens to naughty girls”. Women really like to admire their butts afterward, and they feel cheated if all of… Read more »

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

General intelligence, emotional intelligence, and social intelligence are not merely correlated but also collocated. The exact same brain regions do the exact same things, for different purposes.
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/07/27/brain.awu207.full.pdf+html

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

Almost all highly intelligent people tend to be highly intelligent in all areas.
http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/reingold/courses/intelligence/cache/1198gottfred.html

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

Tell me when to stop, or is it a safe word?

M Simon
5 years ago

jf12 July 29th, 2014 at 6:28 pm Tell me when to stop, or is it a safe word? If it is some one you connect with you can FEEL when to stop. If it is just an acquaintance you need rules. I say this from the stand point of the (mind) games I play with the first mate. If you are attentive you can feel what she is thinking. Hard to explain. Maybe a certain set and level of pheromones go with certain thoughts. It has gotten to the point that she NEVER tells me I’m wrong when I tell… Read more »

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

@M Simon, you asked for links for the idea that smart men get less sex. Apparently that point was conceded since the discussion shifted to “then smart men must have something wrong with them” which I’m busy with links disproving. I’m asserting that I feel comfortable stopping with the high value I’ve already provided, or I could continue with the beatings until morale improves.

eon
eon
5 years ago

@ Mart “Well, there are scarcely any intelligent people “who have always been complete” (whatever that means)…” Umm, it means those who don’t have much “missing”. My comment has only five sentences. Reading comprehension much? And why am I not surprised that a sperg like you has little contact with intelligent and socially adept people? . “I focus on what’s missing because it is painfully obvious that most men of the ‘sphere suffer from emotional and social deficits. … An overwhelming number of manospherians suffer from one or more of those, which is immediately apparent to anyone who looks at… Read more »

Morpheus
Morpheus
5 years ago
Reply to  Mart

Mart,

Just curious…2 questions

1. How did you come across this blog?
2. Why are you here?

I can’t imagine going to feministing or Jezebel, and posting numerous comments, so I wonder what motivates someone with your obvious perspective to show up and comment here.

M Simon
5 years ago

jf12
July 29th, 2014 at 6:45 pm

Well I have yet to concede the point. I’m still studying. And in any case I couldn’t find anything (in a quick search) on smart men with game. Which is in fact the pertinent question here. Since I did well despite being at least aerospace engineer smart.

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

Could some one explain MGTOW to me? They have taken the red pill and then given up. I don’t get it. Is it that if they can’t get the 8, 9, or 10 they want they don’t want anything? Attraction floors exist. Much higher for women than for men, but for most men they exist. If a man’s attraction floor is, say, a 4, and he can only attract and maintain a 3 or less, his options are (1) become more attractive to attract 4s and 5s or (2) if he doesn’t want to do that (or can’t depending on… Read more »

sure
sure
5 years ago

@ M Simon
http://www.pauljanka.com/about-paul/

Harvard Grad, Physics,

sure
sure
5 years ago

@Mart “most men of the ‘sphere suffer from emotional and social deficits” more sweeping generisations how is it that these inferences came about im intrigued And again “overwhelming number of manospherians suffer from one or more of those,” “ But a lot of it is crap, surrounded by aura of “science,” which is a selective understanding of evolutionary biology and its unclear implications to human life, and which serves as nothing more but a tool of reinforcing one’s biases” Would you think that having a plausible explanation for the behavioural changes of the 25-35 year old female might just prevent… Read more »

Mart
Mart
5 years ago

jf12: See research by Baron-Cohen on the male brain and autism: http://cogsci.bme.hu/~ivady/bscs/read/bc.pdf Being male is a built-in predisposition to autism, for some more so than others. Your link blitzkrieg and your willful obtuseness (“The exact same brain regions do the exact same things, for different purposes” — so what?) suggest sperginess in a dire need of self-defense at the moment. Morpheus: Any responses to your questions would have nothing to do with my arguments, so they are irrelevant. Nice try at deflection, though. eon: Your offended comments indicate that it is both a sore and blind spot for you. sure:… Read more »

Morpheus
Morpheus
5 years ago
Reply to  Mart

and/or have successful relationships with them do not spend time in the ‘sphere.

How would you define a “successful” relationship? What differentiates a successful relationship from an unsuccessful one?

Question for you. From YOUR perspective, would a relationship where the guy has blue balls, asks his wife’s permission for everything, and works half the month to pay his mortgage, but the wife is haappppy….is that a “successful” relationship in your view?

Morpheus
Morpheus
5 years ago

Morpheus:
Any responses to your questions would have nothing to do with my arguments, so they are irrelevant. Nice try at deflection, though

You seem halfway intelligent to me. Assuming that is true, you should be smart enough to know that absolutely no one here takes you or your “arguments” serious or is going to be persuaded by you on anything. Given that, I was just curious what you are getting out of commenting here.

Morpheus
Morpheus
5 years ago

correction: seriously

jacklabear
jacklabear
5 years ago

I said to my ex-wife a couple years ago: “If I had dominated you when we were married, we would probably still be married.” She agreed. That would never have occurred to me before I read the ‘sphere. Besides the usual cultural crap, my blue pill indoctrination was aggravated that much more by feminism in college. Doing a marriage on the basis of ‘equality’ with a Chinese woman with an accent didn’t work very well. I blew a good opportunity with a more traditional woman because of a lack of knowledge. As for “a selective understanding of evolutionary biology and… Read more »

Morpheus
Morpheus
5 years ago
Reply to  jacklabear

As for “a selective understanding of evolutionary biology and its unclear implications to human life”, red pill truths are being confirmed as such by my experimentation in the real world since my eyes have been opened. Well, the thing is, unlike Mart’s claims, most of Red Pill concepts don’t originate from esoteric evolutionary psychology or whatever. Those are the after the fact explanations. The origins come from actually testing in the real world with real women and seeing how they react. It (Mart) reminds me of all the low carb bashing and Taubes refuting in the paleosphere. The fact remains… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
5 years ago

” And keep in mind that men who understand women and/or have successful relationships with them do not spend time in the ‘sphere.”

That’s like saying “successful engineers don’t go to college or participate in professional societies and forums and don’t mentor junior engineers”.

Morpheus
Morpheus
5 years ago
Reply to  jacklabear

Additionally, there is most likely some non-trivial amount of relationships that are “successful” by superficial survey standards or feminine imperative standards, but where for the guy the quote about “quite desperation” applies.

Always important to remember that all “advice” from women is inherently solipsistic.

jf12
jf12
5 years ago

@Mart, re: Baron-Cohen.

What specific number in your link is it that you think I ought to be impressed about? The far less than 1 in 200 children who are high-functioning autistic spectrum including Asperger’s, starting at 70 IQ? Gimme a clue. What is it you want me to think affects your thinking about tiny numbers that makes you think they are big, other than your wishful thinking?

M Simon
5 years ago

the supposedly female tendency to follow the herd

But they do. I ask the first mate every time she sees a chick come on to me if that doesn’t make me more attractive to her. Her reply is invariably, “Yes”.

Another way to put it: one of the best ways to attract women is to already have one.

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