Cashing Out

Photo on 2011-06-24 at 10.51

Well I didn’t think I had one more of these in me, but after having read Morpheus’ most recent debunking of Aunt Giggles’ third plea for manosphere site traffic help with her failed rebrand,..SMV analysis, I thought I’d propose a few other dynamics I’ve observed in all of Susan’s schoolyard rock throwing.

The main reason the Tomassi SMV Graph is in any way contentious with the zealots of the feminine imperative is that it points out the ugly truth that the age range women attempt to cash in their SMV chips (27-30) in marriage is conveniently the time at which most women begin to acknowledge their lessened capacity to compete with the next wave of women entering their SMV peak. They dislike this reminder for a couple of reasons.

The first, is simply the audacity of having a Man be aware of how the dynamic works and explain it to women in stark, unflattering terms that they have a real tough time accepting. Of course, they are aware of this on some level of consciousness, but to have any Man read this awareness back to them in no uncertain terms is a threat to women’s sexual strategy. One theme the manosphere has always pointed out, and the mainstream media is reluctantly beginning to address, is the predisposition of women to enjoy their ‘party years’ (18-26) and then, as Dalrock has noted so well, exit the cock-carousel at or around 30 years of age and ‘settle down’ with the “he’ll have to do” Beta provider who’s been patiently waiting his turn (after the Alpha cads are done with her) to get with her.

As I’ve stated in previous posts, even Susan Walsh concurs that women popularly express a desire to be married between the ages of 28 and 32. In essence, Aunt Sue is agreeing with my cashing out observation, but can’t seem to wrap her head around why this age bracket would predominantly be the time women would want to pair off in the long term security of marriage.

Actually she does know why, but her rebrand audience demands a fantasy she (and every other plugged-in HuffPo gender pundit) is required to deliver. According to her most recent posts, women’s prime sexual market value can, and mostly does, extend well into women’s 50’s (hell, why stop there, when apparently it can go into a gal’s 80’s). She simply picks up the girl-world / equalitarian narrative’s fantasy for female SMV and the Myth of Sexual Peak and feeds it back to the 7 or 8 commenters she approves to post comments on her blog. See Sue? You’ve just rebranded around reheating what other bloggers have already beat you to years ago.

I wouldn’t so much care about this repackaging, but Aunt Giggles further compounds the lie with this assertion:

2. Fertility declines very gradually between the ages of 27 and 35.

In a study of 782 couples:

They found that women between the ages of 19 and 26 with partners of similar age had approximately a 50 percent chance of becoming pregnant during any one menstrual cycle if they had intercourse two days prior to ovulation. For women aged 27 to 34, the chance was 40 percent.

3. Fertility declines more dramatically after 35.

Even then, female fertility hardly goes to zero:

For women over the age of 35, the probability dropped to 30 percent.

Notice how the male sexual value begins its precipitous drop at around 36, after declining gradually for five years. Not much difference.

She knows this is flagrant, potentially damaging, bullshit, but posts it because it makes good copy for her rebrand and her ignorant girl-world readers will eat it up. I say it’s flagrant bullshit because she knows better and has posted about it in the past:

III. Tick Tock Biological Clock

Despite progressive sex ed curricula in most areas of the country, adult women today are seriously misinformed about the state of their ovaries.

During a recent story that aired on NPR one infertile woman in her early 40s couldn’t understand it. She insisted that she works out regularly, does yoga, even has a personal trainer. She eats well and is healthy. She never knew that her ovaries were becoming less productive in spite of those measures.

A recent survey found that women dramatically underestimate how much fertility declines with age. They estimated that a 30 year-old had an 80% chance of getting pregnant in one try. The real likelihood is 30%. They also thought a 40 year-old woman would have a 40% success rate, while those odds are less than 10%.

Women are surprised to learn this information and they’re angry about it.

And that was around the same time I wrote the Myth of the Biological Clock. So whom do you trust HUS readers? The 2011 Susan Walsh, warning against cashing out of the SMP too late (or more difficult) to conceive, or the 2013 rebranded, marketeer Susan Walsh who’s telling you your SMV never drops below that of men’s and you can settle down and easily have it all into your 50’s and 60’s?

The Warning

The Second reason the Tomassi SMV graph is so inflammatory is that it poses a direct threat to the feminine imperative (and all its adherents, male and female) in that it serves as a warning for young men to be well aware of this cashing out dynamic, while encouraging them to invest in themselves and become Game-aware so as to capitalize on it when their time comes. I wrote about this preparation in The Epiphany Phase:

For red pill, Game-aware Men, this is a supremely important stage in women’s maturation to consider. A woman in the Epiphany Phase is looking for a “fresh start” for a much more visceral reason than some newly inspired sense of self. This motivation prompts all kinds of behavioral and social conventions to facilitate a man’s commitment to forgiving her past indiscretions. As Roosh has pointed out more than once, it’s women in this phase of life (or the mothers of women in this phase) who most vocally complain about men’s lack of interest in committing to them. As Hephzibah is painfully aware of, women in their peak SMV years don’t complain about a dearth of marriageable men– “Man Up” is the anthem of women in the Epiphany Phase.

The Epiphany Phase, and all the accompanying psychological, social and conveniently religious self-rationalizing for it, is the signaling of a woman ready to cash out of the SMP casino. Women’s pluralistic sexual strategy hinges upon men’s ignorance of it up to, or far enough past it, to consolidate and optimize Hypergamy. Although I wrote Final Exam – Navigating the SMP as a bit tongue in cheek, the intent was to seriously address a common complaint and request:

“Rollo, I just wanted to say that your stuff has been truly groundbreaking for me. This material should be a graduation requirement for all high school seniors.”

Where the hell was all this info and wisdom when I was single? I so wish I’d discovered the manosphere / red pill before I proposed / had kids / got divorced / got burned by listening to what my girlfriend said / was younger,..etc. etc.”

The primary reason I compiled the Rational Male into a book form (and made it affordable) was to serve exactly this purpose; to educate and warn the upcoming generations of young men of the complexities of women’s sexual strategies being played on them, while also, and regrettably, educating those men with the predisposition to accept the realities they’ve probably fallen prey to. Really this is the mission of the manosphere on whole, but as I stated in The Threat, for the feminine imperative to sustain itself, the FI can’t afford this awareness to become too widespread, otherwise the feminine loses its social primacy.

This maintaining of feminine social primacy is at the heart every social convention perpetuated by the feminine imperative. Every Jezebel gender pundit, every Aunt Giggles, every PZ Meyers or Hugo Schwyzer (until he comes clean) is only interested in perpetuating a feminine social control via a constant repetition and fluid repurposing of feminine social convention. I’ve posted before that on the surface this might seem conspiratorial, but the real truth of the matter is the underlying desire for this control is less about effecting social power and more about maintaining as indefinitely as possible women’s capacity to optimize hypergamy.

Perpetuating the myth that women’s SMV remains a viable constant (and exceeding that of men’s) over the course of a lifetime may seem like arrogance, but the latent purpose of that myth is to extend a woman’s prospects of optimizing hypergamy well past a realistic believability. As women advance socially, economically, educationally and professionally the necessity to extend SMP viability long past a women’s realistic peak SMV becomes increasingly more necessary as the difficulty and effort-investment of measurable success becomes more prolonged. The tl:dr takeaway is, the longer it takes for women to ‘have it all’ the longer it takes for a woman to optimize an acceptable hypergamy, the longer she needs to believe her SMV is still viable.

Thus for a woman to literally ‘have it all’ she, and every man invested in the feminine imperative, must be conditioned to believe that a woman’s SMV can remain competitively intact well into her 50’s. Susan Walsh is only one such profiteer cashing in on convincing women that they shouldn’t feel what they all instinctively feel – that they should be cashing out at or around 30.

For this extension to be realized it becomes increasingly important that men be kept ignorant of the feminine imperative and women’s long term sexual strategy. The outrage isn’t about 38 year old men thinking they can get with 22 year old women (which was never proposed) but rather the real outrage stems from enlightening young men that they will eventually possess more SMV potential than women after 30, to prepare for it, and not submit their lives to women’s imperatives for men. In other words, the Tomassi SMV Graph warns men that it will be within their power not to let women have their hypergamous cake and eat it too.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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redpillsetmefree
Guest

Home run.

Morpheus
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Morpheus

There is more coming 🙂

earl
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earl

My own personal prediction:

Between this awareness becoming more common…and the current trend of women waiting even longer to marry…if the median age for men to marry ever hits 30, the marriage rate will plummet quickly.

Tin Man
Guest

Prediction… Married Men that learn (learning) this for the first time will skyrocket – once they learn how they’ve been duped by their conditioning, and that they are the power (because most Men after about 7 or 8 years of marriage, forget they have any power at all), there will be a bunch of “shape up or ship out” wife-fights going on. I will say this again…IF I had know this 10 years ago, one of two things would have happened….(1) I would have one of the best marriages imaginable and a great relationship with my wife OR (2) I… Read more »

thegreatshebang
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thegreatshebang

This topic never gets old. Thanks for the post!

BC
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BC

All men have to do is stand firm and say “No, thanks.”

Married Men that learn (learning) this for the first time will skyrocket – once they learn how they’ve been duped by their conditioning, and that they are the power (because most Men after about 7 or 8 years of marriage, forget they have any power at all), there will be a bunch of “shape up or ship out” wife-fights going on.

And if there is no shaping up, well, divorce can be expensive because it’s worth it, and it can be a lot less expensive if you prepare for it.

Ace
Guest
Ace

In Ms. Walsh’s defense, as a postmodern feminist who partakes in equalist ideology, she can’t help but see her own femininity from a male perspective. For feminism is merely masculinity envy. Male fertility remains a potent force through a man’s 60s. Thus, obviously, so to should women’s fertility. QED

Tilikum
Guest

as Game serves to swell the ranks of high value males ever so steadily, these beezy’s just gotta know it’s all over.

without all that free poosy, they got nothing. feminism isn’t giving them anything, no strong men, no money, and no status. no value to these no value girls. perhaps we can start male-only clubs and sports once again.

immoralgables
Guest

Nice work Rollo.

If this was The Fountainhead, Susan Walsh reminds me of Ellsworth Toohey.

joe sixpack
Guest
joe sixpack

This all would not be such a big deal if it were not for how men get screwed so badly in divorce court. Who gives a shit how many dicks my wife has had before she married me, if there are no consequences to divorce. Just get divorced and call it a day. But there are huge consequences. Ongoing alimony, outrageous divorce settlements, etc etc. Now that courts take 1/2 my money, I have to care how many dicks my wife has had before me. Marriage is so old fashioned now. It is simply not suitable to today’s legal climate.… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@shebang, I promise it’ll be the last.

What, no comment on the picture? I thought it was a stroke of genius, heheh.

Badger
Guest

The volley of responses has been so disjointed, I think Aunt Giggles is really cracking up.

BC
Guest
BC

SMV hamsterbation is like debt financing. The more the hamster runs, the more speed the wheel builds up, and the faster the hamster has to run to maintain the divorce (heh) from reality, because any slowdown on the hamster’s part quickly ends with it getting chucked unceremoniously out of the wheel and landing flat on its back. This is why women tend to double down when called on something, because when faced with a potentially illusion-destroying reality check, the solution is obviously to spin the wheel faster. The problem is that, like debt financing, they know subconsciously that sooner or… Read more »

Emma the Emo
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Emma the Emo

The one problem I always had with the graph is that the y-axis says “SMV”, while it’s actually supposed to be a measure of how much of the peak potential SMV is reached. It leads to misunderstandings. If it was a real pure raw SMV chart, women’s would always be much higher than men’s, women being gatekeepers of sex and all. Having said that, Susan is disappointing lately, with her “pedo” comments about men who are honest about the SMV of 16 year old girls. A prime example of a woman getting old and attacking men’s sexuality because she’s no… Read more »

HanSolo
Guest

Susan Walsh Endorses Graph Where Female SMV Falls 50% By Age 31

http://www.justfourguys.com/susan-walsh-female-smv-falls-50-by-age-31/

So, the Susan-approved SMV graph has female SMV drop 50% by 31 and the Rollo graph by 30. One year really makes all that much difference? lol

thelastgood14u
Guest

How do you account for the later carousel riders at ages say 35-45? I have seen many more of these lately. They look like like they have been ridden hard and put away wet, but quite a few seem to still get attention. The guys seem more like more beta orbiters they pluck down as needed though.I have seen a couple of lower alphas pump and dump them or walk as soon as their true colors are seen, and the women seem to take it all in stride. Pretty messed up. I had a 45 y/o want to marry me… Read more »

Mr.A is Mr.A
Guest

@thelastgood14u
Long-standing habits are hard to break for any human being; that’s why it’s dangerous to get on and stay on the Carousel for too long.

Another is the fact that some women cannot fathom this:

SMV != MMV

Just because I guy will sleep with you, doesn’t mean he wants anything to do with marrying you.

This is something else that Susan is ignoring: SMV vs MMV.

Vi Nay
Guest

The unfortunate thread of hope many women appear to grasp onto when justifying their SMV goes beyond 25 is because they look at isolated exceptions of friends or acquaintances who score younger men. It’s as if these random moments of living magic make up for the other 99% of true happenings. The problem with this claim, and I do accept their are men with older and uglier women, is 3 fold: 1) Some of these men are simply using these women to clear the pipes on a probable dry spell, or just treating her as a sloppy fresh lay. 2)… Read more »

Latim
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Latim

I’m lucky to have stumbled upon this and being pretty young (23). I’ve been applying game theory since I was a teen but this is most definitely an eye opener for me as the stakes start to get bigger. The more I learn about the red pill the more I can sift through the bullshit. Everytime any blue-pill moments of weakness seep I’ve managed to snap out of it just in time. It’s sad that it is seen so often on social media. Here’s the latest “popular” article being posted on facebook:

http://sethadamsmith.com/2013/11/02/marriage-isnt-for-you/

A sad state of affairs to be honest.

8to12
Guest

Fertility, fertility, fertility. All anyone talks about is fertility, but there is more to being able to bear a healthy child than just fertility. 1) Fertility rate: the ability to get pregnant 2) Miscarriage rate: the ability to carry a pregnancy to term 3) Birth defect rate: the ability to giver birth to a healthy child it’s a 3-legged stool. Without 3 solid legs the stool will fall over. A woman in her 20’s has a 1/10 chance of miscarrying. At 30 it’s 1/5. At 35 it’s 1/4. AT 40 it’s 1/3. AT 45 it’s 1/2. A woman in her… Read more »

8to12
Guest

@Tin Man,

The red pill isn’t sweet, it’s bitter.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

@Emma I think the only way that a woman’s SMV could always be higher than a man’s is if you were talking about things like a woman’s ability to make a living in mass media without ability to actually do or be good at something. And with the current way the entertainment world is now with the plethora of fake reality and Miley types, it’s probably the easiest time ever for a female to make money in entertainment. I wouldn’t even call them the gate keepers of sex. Now how the usual dynamics play out leading to sex of how… Read more »

Elan
Guest
Elan

@Mr.A

I understand that a woman’s SMV != MMV, but I thought that a man’s SMV was at least in-part tied to his MMV.

Were you just saying that women, by and large, don’t differentiate between their SMV and their MMV?

Skipper
Guest
Skipper

How about this for a perfect example of SMV. China’s marriage market has too many women: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/03/world/asia/shanghai-marriage-market/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

Read the other link about too many men saying there will be about 30mill more men than women soon.
Yet there’s a shortage of men to date.
Then there’s the line that said men tend to marry down and “left over women” (made me laugh reading that) having standards too high.
Then I look over to the right column and see a story talking about jilted mistresses coming forward to expose graft.
Funny.

earl
Guest
earl

“So, the Susan-approved SMV graph has female SMV drop 50% by 31 and the Rollo graph by 30. One year really makes all that much difference? lol”

It must be like the Price is Right.

Mr.A is Mr.A
Guest

@Elan Yes. While Rollo’s graph may consider aspects of MMV (are a man’s resources part of the SMV or MMV curves or both?) within his thumbnail sketch of how SMV changes with age, many women seem to think that SMV = MMV for all ages of their lives. Worse, some even seem to think that time on the Carousel can make MMV > SMV for a potential mate. This may be some of what thelastgood14u was highlighting with his story about the 45-year old who was offering her own dowry for marriage to him. If she was good enough for… Read more »

Mr.A is Mr.A
Guest

@8to12
“These numbers were pulled from here: http://www.socalfertility.com/age-and-fertility/

Very useful site; thanks for the links!

ZLX1
Guest
ZLX1

At the end of the day, the main thing is, a woman’s SMV/MMV isn’t what she or her friends think it is, it’s what we say it is. We’re the purchasers of the product being marketed.

The reverse is also true.

If out in the mix looking to buy and sell, it’s good to maximize your offering, and also very good to be aware of what you’re getting in trade. Truth in advertising and all that.

Tin Man
Guest

@8to12 — Yes, you’re right. It is bitter, has little tiny barbs and goes down very, very hard. It hurts like hell – but the pain is worth it.

Tin Man
Guest

And let’s get real here. Women can have sex at anytime – 60 year olds can have sex. 45 year olds can have sex. I read something the other day, that if played right, they can probably find a man, that once he has sex with her, he might want to keep her around – and if he’s blue pill enough, he will marry her. It happens all the time – and places like Match.com and eHarmony are filled with these men. Now, here’s what I’ve been thinking about…in these marriages, where they marry, but they are too old have… Read more »

BlackPoisonSoul
Guest

Fertility and good children are only a factor when you actually want kidlets. When you don’t want them, there is no point to marriage.

This is why the fe bots invented “de-facto relationships” in New Zealand. Basically if you keep a girl around for sex for 2+ years, you are considered de-facto married. Then you can be divorced and she gets half-plus of everything, even if you lived separately (ie she was renting a place and you have your own home).

Coming to a state near you, so don’t bloody slip up.

Mark Minter
Guest

“Is Kanye West the Black Mark Minter” So now I can claim my name and Kayne West’s name are often used in the same sentence. I have this saying that a people receive the government they deserve. It has been measured that while Asians score higher in intellect than North Americans, they score far lower in conscientiousness. And thus where self control is part of the North American character and the desire from North Americans is for “freedom” from their government, Asians have more or less, outsourced control from the self to the culture and their institutions and religions reflect… Read more »

the beat
Guest
the beat

@Latim

As a “red pill aware” man you see the bullshit and beta fantasies in your linked article right away:

>We were friends for ten years until…until we decided no longer wanted to be just friends.

Translated: I was an orbiter for 10 years until -she- decided I was good enough.

>I strongly recommend that best friends fall in love.

Yeah right, as if that was some logical decision…

Elan
Guest
Elan

@Tin Man said:

‘…is there really a “tie” or “bond”? …either one can jump out (although once again, the Man will still bear the cost of it).’

At that age, there’s your bond: fear.

For her, a fear of being alone.

For him, if he’s blue-pill, there’s a fear of being alone. Along, of course, with the ever-present fear of her divorcing him for cash and prizes.

Elan
Guest
Elan

@Mark Minter said:

“And in the end, people get what they deserve.”

Tell that to Thomas Ball.

Kate
Guest
Kate

“And frankly, I own this bitch and I defy her to come into this forum and say that I don’t.” HAHAHAHA And how innocently you replied “fine” to me asking how your night was this morning 😉 This sounds like a challenge if there ever was one, but I don’t plan to defy you. I seem to recall the last time I accepted such a challenge, I ended up engaged…:) Yeah, you own me, but its not such a bad thing to be so owned.

Kate
Guest
Kate

@Elan: Thomas Ball and Mark Minter had a lot more in common than you seem to realize. One is dead; the other is still living. There is a way through, but, the point is, the readership isn’t ready to hear it. Until they are, the content of blogs will remain unchanged.

Just Saying
Guest
Just Saying

“keep a girl around for sex for 2+ years, you are considered de-facto married” So, keep more than 1 around for sex. I have 3 in rotation, they know about each other, and others that I call upon as needed – with several in the pipeline ready to set up as one gets retired. Since I don’t live with any of them, any one of them would be hard-pressed to argue that it was anything more than what it is – a f-buddy set up. Women are becoming more and more open to this type of set up as they… Read more »

LiveFearless on NBC
Guest

(MM) Mark Minter
(KK) Kate Kavanaugh (Anastasia Steele’s bff & roommate in “Fifty Shades of Grey”) from the trilogy that sold 70 million units between April and December of 2012. Fiction.
(KW) Kanye West
(KK) Kim Kardashian
(MM) Mark Minter
(KM) Kate Minter (soon)

How much of KW/KK story is scripted?

Alliteration works when building a global brand of influence.

(DD) David Deangelo
Robert Redford
Danny DeVito
Boris Becker
Malcolm McDowell
Jesse James
Kevin Kline
Lorenzo Lamas
Sylvester Stallone
Ryan Reynolds
Billy Blanks
Aziz Ansari
Billy Burke
Mandy Moore
Lindsay Lohan
Amy Adams
Marisa Miller
Kelly Clarkson
Kristin Kreuk
Lucy Lui
Amy Acker
Leona Lewis
Sarah Silverman
Helen Hunt
Holly Hunter
Courtney Cox

Jack
Guest
Jack

I think that Walsh’s points are closer to the truth than the ‘Sphereans. First, SW advocates that women begin searching *in earnest* for a husband right after college. She argues that the studies indicate that 27-30 is the ideal age for long term marriages that are successful. She also argues that college education correlates highly with lower divorce, lower infidelity and longer marriages. She is telling women to avoid cads, find the betas that will make a good living and make a good man and marry him early. Why on earth is the Manosphere giving her shit for that? Her… Read more »

Morpheus
Guest
Morpheus

“Jack”, That is a fairly reasonable comment. First, SW advocates that women begin searching *in earnest* for a husband right after college. She argues that the studies indicate that 27-30 is the ideal age for long term marriages that are successful. She also argues that college education correlates highly with lower divorce, lower infidelity and longer marriages. She is telling women to avoid cads, find the betas that will make a good living and make a good man and marry him early. Why on earth is the Manosphere giving her shit for that? Her message is essentially a secular version… Read more »

Morpheus
Guest
Morpheus

And let me add this “Jack”, perhaps one of my biggest beefs is that Walsh demonizes all sorts of thoughts, drives, that are basically part of any normal guy, at least the guys I grew up, hung out with. She basically says that “good” guys think X, Y, Z. In her world, the only good guys are some sort of neutered pet.

Tin Man
Guest

@Morpheus To Susan Walsh’s concept of “good guys” — there are not real good guys, at our base selves, we are the horn-dogs we are made out to be. Now, that’s if you only take SEX as the factor to judge Men against. There are few Men, that if presented with “no harm, no foul” sex from someone that they are attractive to, who would turn it down. Even those devoted, bible banging Christian types would “sin in their hearts” if not in real life. (and btw, don’t get too butt hurt, everyone is tested). That being said, another aspect… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist

Minter, you’re nothing compared to Osho, for having a different view. He did it from day to day. One day Christ was King, the next just a stunted Jew that lacked any kind of rational thought.

I think it is called living life.

jimmyhendricks87
Guest
jimmyhendricks87

@Jack I also generally agree with what you’re saying, and what Susan has said on those topics. In fact, I’ve always been on the record as saying I essentially agree with the core aspects of what she’s pushing. The big difference here is that you’re being relatively reasonable and diplomatic, while she’s been relying on ad hominem and straw man attacks as of late… i.e. saying Han excuses & advocates sexual assault, saying that guys around here believe 38 year old guys should be pairing up with 18-21 year old girls when nobody has said anything of the sort, etc.… Read more »

jimmyhendricks87
Guest
jimmyhendricks87

@Morpheus
Throw in the fact that in Susan’s world, not only are men over 30 icky old guys… guys under 25 are all immature idiots.

Comedy pyramid.

Morpheus
Guest
Morpheus

My rule of thumb has always been: girls reach their peak at 18-25, and guys reach their peak at 28-35. Nothing scientific, but safely in the ballpark. And while you’re not likely to see upper 30s guys getting with early 20s girls that often, mid 30s guys with mid to upper 20s girls isn’t unreasonable at all. Jimmy, THIS. EXACTLY! I read this from you and thought of this quote: “Common sense is not so common.” * Voltaire Really, this is common sense to anyone who observes the world. While I am quoting Voltaire, here is another one that I… Read more »

Morpheus
Guest
Morpheus

Jimmy, One thing I noticed, and I’m curious if your take is the same is there is a world of difference between a 21-22 year old and a 24-25 year old. For lack of a better description I think many girls turn into women and get a different perspective. I don’t think may 35-38 year old guys are going to pull 21-22 year olds unless he is flashing a ton of cash and they are party girl types, but I have no doubt 35-38 year old guys can pull 25 year olds, especially in urban settings. I think age difference… Read more »

jimmyhendricks87
Guest
jimmyhendricks87

@Morpheus Yeah, I definitely see a change in attitude from a lot of girls a year or two out of school. While the 35/25 pairings might be pushing the outer region of realistic (while still possible), I do see 32/25 type pairings all the time. I’ve never lived in cities that big, so I really can’t comment on that specific environment. My guess is wider age gaps are probably even more common there. But for a specific example, here’s an episode I witnessed recently: A 31 year old buddy of mine with a few gray hairs pulled a short makeout… Read more »

Mark Minter
Guest

One year ago on this election night in 2012, I posted a long comment into this blog that went viral. And I have another. Tonight I come to you with a different theme and a different vision. The Way Home. In 10 days, I go “home” and I have not been a home in well over 10 years. And it has been a tumultous 10 years. But I have finally found my way “home”. And I throw the gauntlet to the major writers of the manosphere to create an alternative to the present path that we are now on as… Read more »

Tin Man
Guest

I can only speak from experience….I was 34 when I got married, my wife was 27…of course, the problem is that the enlightened 26 year old becomes a disillusioned 44/45 year old (especially if they are a SAHM) that starts seeing their “mommy” world change as the kids start pulling away and growing up. Around here, there is not as much talk about that cycle for woman, Men and the changing dynamics in their marriage/relationship. There are a bunch of Men swimming in a sea of confusion in their late 40’s and early 50’s – wondering how they now have… Read more »

Augustus
Guest
Augustus

A little off-topic, but how you do guys see the phenomenon of Japan’s herbivore men: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men. Don’t you think that all feminist countries are in for the same phenomenon, taking into account the influence of pornography (a byproduct of feminine intrassexual competition and freedom), the very high feminine standards, male shaming, the demise of males and female supremacy, roles inversion, etc.?

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@Jack, oh I have no doubt that Aunt Giggles will eventually come around to accepting my SMV Graph as an honest observation of SMP dynamism and after a few months create a more or less identical graph of her own and tell her readers she conceived and endorsed it all along – just as she’s done with my concepts of hypergamy and feminine solipsism. She railed against those ideas after I wrote about them, waited about 6 months and then wrote posts on how she not only accepted them, but originated them. If you look at the OK Cupid graph… Read more »

Archon
Guest
Archon

I think the core here is a Feminist legal system that punishes the fuck out of men if their wife gets bored one day. Finding happiness as a man is harder than ever: women don’t want to get married when men do, and when they do want to get married it comes with an absurd list of requirements — or the woman is used up. Fight the corporate ladder? Buy a house — in this economy? For what? The chance to be ripped apart by the legal system? Rollo et al have shown us how these systems came to be… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

Interesting discussion between Morpheus, Jimmy and “Jack”. I similarly have been on record as supporting Susan’s core arguments: Stop slutting around; there are good reasons for finding a good man early; find a good beta man and settle down early. Where she’s gone off the rails lately is in suggesting that a woman retains most of her value well into her 30s and will still be able to marry as well in her 30s as she could have in her 20s. The reasons why that’s just not true at all have been explained ad nauseam ad infinitum here and everywhere.… Read more »

jimmyhendricks87
Guest
jimmyhendricks87

Two of my favorites “ethics” lessons from over there:

In order for men to remain “ethical” they have to clearly state their intentions up front… otherwise they’re evil dark triad cads.

Men are also required to divulge any information about prior marriages, children, etc. up front.

But women are in no way obligated to share any information on their sexual history, and men who wish to know about it are creepy losers.

Another one:

Women who are virgins are treated unfairly in today’s world, and don’t get the respect they deserve.

But men who value a woman’s virginity are creepy losers.

deti
Guest
deti

Jimmy: I thought another interesting ethical position was Susan’s exemplar description of, while single and before she met her husband, pity-fucking a guy whom she knew to be engaged to another woman. Susan explained that she had no ethical responsibility to abstain from sex with the engaged man because he, not she, was attached and/or engaged. If there were any ethical breach, it was on the man, not on her. This was because he, not she, was engaged. I can’t agree with that. I can’t agree with Susan’s stated position that an unattached woman had no ethical or moral duty… Read more »

HanSolo
Guest

Much of the advice at HUS for young women is actually pretty good, as far as it goes. But it’s surrounded by a dogmatic and totalitarian hostility to anything deviating from the alpha mare’s dictates (at that moment, though, as we see, that is subject to change whenever circumstance “demands” or she simply wants to). And there is far too much focus on cad shaming and not enough on woman-ing up and taking responsibility. Not enough focus on restraining hypergamy and entitlement and that the main reason for pump and dumps isn’t low female self esteem but, rather, grasping too… Read more »

HanSolo
Guest

deti, I agree it is absurd to say she has no moral or ethical responsibility to not mercy fuck an engaged man. Now, I’d put 95% or 97% of that on him but if she had said no, the mercy fuck wouldn’t have happened and he would have remained merely a “sinner” of intention rather than commission.

A Definite Beta Guy
Guest
A Definite Beta Guy

“But men who value a woman’s virginity are creepy losers.” Real men prefer who women who enjoy relationships of varying lengths, including women who have had several one night stands, but have learned their lessons. It’s maddening. One of their commenters suggested that men change around the age of 26. Yes. I know this because I am 26 and have many male friends that are 26. Back in college they really weren’t interested in virgins and were a little put-off because they didn’t want a “clinger” and were afraid of blood. Basically, they wanted to “burn through” a few women… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist

Minter’s feared future, from the past –

Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
Guest
Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

>> How do you account for the later carousel riders at ages say 35-45? I have seen many more of these lately.

Simple. They are smart enough to notice that they’re not gonna get a ring. So they can play with cats, or they can play with dicks.

strauMan (@strauMan)
Guest

Rollo, You’ve touched upon something I’ve felt for awhile but couldn’t describe–you gave it a name. My own personal dread is how to have a successful relationship with a woman or women in lieu of agendas, Hypergamy, family court, divorce rates, etc. Enter, competition anxiety. As a man, as long as I: stay healthy and fit, minimize bad behaviors such as laziness and losing my shit over petty things, set and accomplish personal goals, command a decent income or better, I can have it all. Here are my options: 1) girls in their 20’s who think most guys their age… Read more »

JQ Public
Guest
JQ Public

@Strauman: Your answer is to not commit to one woman. Always have a backup. If you don’t have a backup, just flirt a lot with other women. I’m a married man so I can’t have other women. What I do is flirt with other women, talk with them a while, get them interested in me and then introduce them to my wife. Trust me, after getting introduced to some of my new female friends, my wife knows that I can pull other women. Hypergamy doesn’t bother me a bit.

korbendallas
Guest
korbendallas

What’s wrong with being 38 and having a 22 year old girlfriend? I’m 23 and date girls my age. My buddy is 38 and his girlfriend is 23. Their a sweet couple. I want to settle down when I’m 35-40 with a 18-23 year old. I live in central europe, so, it is more common. But I think this is natural.

RationalisAsRationalDoes
Guest
RationalisAsRationalDoes

Long time lurker first time commenting. I don’t know if you’ve seen this woman’s blog but she accepts what HUS doesn’t seem to be able to bring themselves to acknowledge with regards to SMV and SMP. The link to the other blog is very enlightening. Enjoy!

http://thebitterbabe.com/2013/10/29/double-whammies-2/

John South
Guest
John South

Minter is such a dork.

He’s all I’m married now haha.

Rational Woman, well now that is funny.

Judgement proof with nowhere else to go so of course you did whuppty friggin doo.

Too much free time so he rewrote John Galt’s farewell speech from Atlas Shrugged.

Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
Guest
Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

>> if the median age for men to marry ever hits 30, the marriage rate will plummet quickly. which, by itself, doesn’t really help our position. The only thing that will help us, is turning around the tax-men-to-support-single-moms fiesta. Realistically speaking, the only way for THAT to take place is invisibly. IE, hyper-inflation, with the men dropping out of the “official” economy. 3/4 of the Cathedral is devoted to anesthetizing MEN into keep slaving away in the coal mines, and NOT “Go Galt”. Miley Cyrus was only ==partially== created to train women how to behave. The rest of the invention… Read more »

Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
Guest
Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

Minter is a Welfare Mom. He got married to get himself out of debt and out of his sister’s spare bedroom. His new father-in-law threw a lot of money at him.

More power to him.

He’s still dull-witted enough to mentally-masturbate on the internet, as opposed to start building a harem.

Chilangringo
Guest
Chilangringo

Getting divorced is not as hard or expensive as you might think. You just have to prepare for it. In a nutshell, this is what I did: I bought a second house together with my ex-wife. I convinced her we should buy it as an investment. I said I’d put in the down payment, but that I was tapped out on my paycheck, so it would help us plan financially if we just had the mortgage deducted from her paycheck. It was a struggle to get her to agree to that, but it was something I had to have to… Read more »

Mark Duplessis
Guest

I love this post a lot, as it really shades light as to why so many women of my age (I am 34 now) suddenly act so nice to me and want my company (after having given away all their chastity to unscrupulous asholes), while in my twenties, the same women wouldn’t see me in their mental radar. I used to be a typical beta for most of my young ages, and passed many golden opportunities that I could have capitalized. But after swallowing my red pill about a few months ago, my eyes are now wide open. My betatude… Read more »

Derp
Guest
Derp

I don’t like that graph. I feel like there are a few ‘knee’ events that are not adequately captured by just superimposing two bell curves around different points on one another. It does not have a ‘knee’ for the wall, or the mini-wall at 30. I think a woman’s SMV is probably pretty stable in between ‘knee’ events, with peaking happening in the 18-23 range, followed by a slight decline, then a knee, then stability, then another knee at 42ish.

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[…] him in a good provider role. She certainly fit the script of the 27-29 year old woman looking to cash out of the SMP before her attractiveness capital (such as it was) expired. But on the other hand, she wasn’t […]

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[…] summed this phase up in Cashing Out, however, it’s here that women, with the foresight to see it, will make their best attempts […]

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[…] a feminine-primary society has undeniably made the cash & prizes incentive for women to Cash Out of their marriage a realizable and socially acceptable […]

Kat
Guest
Kat

I’m a 29 year old woman, very pretty and well educated, and I definitely feel a tiny bit of stress regarding building a family. It must not take many more years for me to find someone, with whom I can have kids and companionship. Kids are more of a bonus and the reason why it should not take too long, but the most important thing is the mental and emotional closeness that comes with a good and healthy relationship. I was never consciously a “party girl”, but for sure I rejected boys down whom I now feel that maybe should… Read more »

Kat
Guest
Kat

I read those articles and they are definitely interesting, in that the physically most attractive periods do differ for men and women, at least for me the most attractive men are generally in their 30’s, approaching 40. Women are ultimately limited by their ability to bear children, and all of us women know this. So, in case we are sure that we want kids, we better start thinking about it before time is up, otherwise not. 🙂 However, these graphs seem exaggerated in a way that kind of bothers me. Maybe it’s the fact that they do not show exactly… Read more »

stormhatt
Guest

To me personally, the stress of building a family rather arises from 2 things: 1. The gradually developed insight that my emotional and relationship strategy needs a change, since it has not generated the type of committed and close relationship I want so far (7+ years). My physical appearance is rather secondary, as long as I take good care of my body. I know that there will always be men who are physically attractive *enough* for me, also of equal “status” as myself, who would want a good night in bed and maybe spend the rest of their lives with… Read more »

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[…] diminished, and as the next generation of SMV peaked women comes into their own, the urgency to cash out of the sexual market place […]

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[…] have women believe will be waiting for them when their looks begin to fade and it’s time to cash out of the SMP. These are the men who believe their hard work and perseverance is finally paying off […]

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[…] in their 20s until they realize a lessened capacity to attract guys and then seek to cash out of the sexual marketplace before or around 30. Usually this ends up with a girl settling for […]

rob ottoman
Guest
rob ottoman

I… AM… A… R-O-B-O-T… I… MUST… QUANTIFY… MY… LIFE… IN… ARBITRARY… CATEGORICAL… TERMS… SO… I… CAN… UNDERSTAND… THINGS…

Learn to be alive you weirdos!

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