SMV – Is it Real?

I’ve never reblogged any post before, but in light of all the attention my SMV graph has been receiving recently this was too good not to. The reason the SMV graph agitates critics so much is because upon first glance (usually the only consideration it’s given) it angers those with strong ego-investments in an equalist / feminized mindset. Because of this, critics jump to the presumption that I’m in someway implying the intrinsic worth of a man or a woman based on where they fall on this graph without any consideration given to the intent of why I created it or its objective purpose. It’s “tl;dr, people are people, he’s a perv who wants to bang 12 year olds, etc. etc. where’s the science?”

I would encourage any critics of this graph to read the entirety of Navigating the SMP, SMV in Girl-World and The Curse of Potential. Until you do you’ll have an incomplete understanding of it.

In Sex, Lies and Statistics I mentioned that the SMV squares very well with existing studies (links provided) but this iconic men post is another excellent example. I have no doubt that every critic will take issue with the source in an attempt to disqualify it, but consider that my graph was drawn as an objective illustration based on an aggregate of male experiences and observations without the aid of the numbers presented here. Again, it reflects these trends with scary accuracy.

 

Late Edit: Also too good not to include Why Women Lose the Dating Game

Iconic Men

I was reading about a post on reddit.com/r/theredpill that talked about a study that confirmed how men tend to get more action later-on than women, and how the numbers were justified. This discussion centers around the concept of the sexual market value (SMV for short) of an individual as they go throughout their life.  Composed of looks, financials, and knowledge, the SMV for an individual depends on their natural biology, as well as active action to improve their own value.  Better descriptions and articles of SMV can be shown here:

https://therationalmale.com/2012/06/04/final-exam-navigating-the-smp/

In general, the hypothesis follows that women tend to gain their highest value as they approach their late teens though their mid twenties. This type of graph was based from well thought out personal experiences of many males, so it could be attacked for its data integrity because of the bias of the individual who created the graph.  In my…

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53 comments

  1. Should be very interesting what argument “Where is all the data” people jump to next.

    “”If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.”

  2. quite honestly I hope that this ignorance to reality (both philosophical and physical) or willful self deception continues unabated.

    i don’t think the patient can be saved, only reborn, and there is great profit in being the doctor/practitioner in either case.

    i don’t WANT people to understand how basic they are, i don’t WANT more competition for the highest quality of women.

    i WANT effeminate personalities with minor fame like Futrelle and PZ and Scalzi doubling down over and over in the feminine imperative while their wives spin their rings around or stuff them in their pockets on a “girls nite out” so black Knights like me can bang em silly. those bitches of men deserve it.

    who wants people around them with a profound lack of judgement like the bitches bitching?

  3. As someone who has had strong disagreements with you on other topics, I must say I simply cannot understand the sudden criticism of your SMV chart. The first time I saw it, I was like, “Yeah, that’s right. Everybody sort of knows that, though, right?” But apparently everyone doesn’t know that, or at least they pretend like they don’t. However, just looking at the average age of marriage for women from 1890-1990 lends support to your idea; the age for women always ranged between 20-22, which exactly corresponds to the peak on your graph.

  4. I am not one at all to say that media drives the bus. Media is a reflection of society, or some portion thereof.

    Thus I say…Look at movies. Harrison Ford, George Clooney, to name a couple. They are rarely cast with women their own age. If this dynamic was so reprehensible, it wouldn’t sell.

  5. @Sunshinemary

    I guess you never had the headrush of being at the peak of your potential.

    This is not a female phenomenon either, most NFL players are broke a few years after their careers.

    It is just people drunk with power, due to fleeting circumstances, unable to envision that it could ever be any other way.

  6. I’m proud to have been cited in that article “Why Women Lose the Dating Game”. That’s true even though my ideas were called “bile”.

  7. This is why women past 34 tend to surround themselves with beta orbiters and “friends”.

    It’s been written somewhere else that for women sex is a means to an end: if they’re already getting attention, then no need to put out. This theory also aligns with why single women in their 30’s tend to be so angry, paranoid and otherwise emotional or more emotional.

    I can only say this anecdotally but since learning game and banging girls below 30…they’re much more chill and easy to hang with than their bitter, resentful angry 30+ counterparts.

    I wished i’d known about this earlier I would have done things very differently.

  8. I wished i’d known about this earlier I would have done things very differently.

    Story of everyone’s life.

    Luckily, as the much-hated chart shows, for most men it is almost never to late to start doing things very differently.

  9. I think of myself as a compassionate man. I think I am equally invested in the well-being of my fellow humans – male and female.

    Yet whenever I hear about those entitled 30-something women crashing hard, it puts a huge smile on my face.

    Why is that? Shadenfreude? Misogyny? I’d really like to find out.

  10. Why is that? Shadenfreude? Misogyny? I’d really like to find out.

    Affirmation of a sense of justice and belief in just rewards.
    It’s a male trait, and one to wear proudly.

  11. In the time of insanity…the truth is often seen as radical.

    Women’s expiration date is 30…men’s peak window opens at that time. It would make sense for both genders to know this, accept it, and take advantage of it.

    Snag a man early ladies and get those wife goggles…you’ll both be set for life.

  12. The basic tenet of “Women are the gatekeepers to sex, Men are the gatekeepers to commitment” keeps running through my head as I read these “news” articles. The first part has been hammered into daughters by fathers for centuries – but it seems the second part is the unknown – the piece of the equation that women get pissed off about.

    I’ve had the (dis)pleasure of seeing this first hand as my (x)wife has attempted to trade up several times over the past couple years. She’s the typical mid-40’s woman – got her body in shape (looks good in clothes and dressed up), is very outgoing and flirty around men, and “dates” lots of them. She’s a great salesperson – and has gotten several men to go on test drives.

    But her problem is that lots of men will share time with her, but they just won’t “buy” – even after using her ultimate weapon – sex – to lure them in. And of course, all these men are assholes – and she had to break it off with them. But I’m pretty sure most of the Men here could probably tell her – they Men will take the sex for as long they want it and as long as she is willing to give it out.

    There’s an old saying…”There’s no need to buy the cow, if you can get the milk for free” … pretty standard saying of Fathers to Daughters.

    The problem is – these again woman just can’t hold out that long – because if they hold out, the men will go someplace else – hard to compete when there are lots of free milk stands.

  13. @ SSM

    “… “Yeah, that’s right. Everybody sort of knows that, though, right?” But apparently everyone doesn’t know that, or at least they pretend like they don’t….”

    I recently shared some stories that demonstrate the reality of Rollo’s SMV graph with a recent graduate of a Women’s Studies program at a major college. She’s obese, boyfriend-less, sex-less, and has no career prospects except as an hourly retail clerk.

    It was all a revelation and mystery to her as to why people behaved according to the SMV Graph. Her only response..

    “I don’t know how I feel about that…”

    It makes me wonder what they teach in Women’s Studies if the curriculum doesn’t include their most powerful asset while they are of the age to use it while taking the class. Heh Heh. SSM, they certainly like to pretend like they don’t know.

  14. Tin Man

    Women in their teens and 20’s are much more the gatekeepers of commitment than the same-aged men, in modern-day life. Once you hit the 30’s then men are more the gatekeepers of commitment and by the 40’s even more so.

    That’s why marriage age has gone up, because young women decided not to marry as young and because they were very picky about whom they would grant their commitment to.

    Sort of a version of the golden rule: whoever has the gold makes the rules.

    Young women clearly have the sexual gold so they make the rules on who gets sex with them.

    They also have so much sexual gold that they also make the rules on who commits to them, if anyone, and when.

  15. “Why is that? Shadenfreude? Misogyny? I’d really like to find out.”

    Justice.

    Finally.

    Pure karmic exctasy….

    And no, I was not treated well, nor am I of the lets all shake hands and be reasonable variety.

    Lets fuck their shit up, shall we?

  16. The Hamster wheel spinning in the “Why Women Lose the Dating Game” comments is hilarious. The war of the sexes is alive and well and ITS HOT!

    Is truly astonishing all the options available to me at 29 with a decent income and an indomitable frame. Freshly legal and bubbly to cask-aged, bitter and kinky. What a great time to be a man.

    Hell, they wanted the dubious honor of freedom and providing. Here it is.

  17. One thing I will caution…just because you have secured your nubile young thing at the wonderful ripe age of 24, and you are at your peak around 34, those same women become at sometime become 45 year old, disenchanted wives, and have spent the last 15 years wondering where all the fun went in their lives.

    It is still the responsibility of the Man to continue to create both attraction and dread – with those two key elements – that wonderful wife of yours will (may) decide she has better options and go back out on the market to seek her better alpha (with of course no guarantee of finding him). Of course, if you keep your frame, and stay in shape, you will always probably be the better option.

  18. Rollo, that addendum is the funniest thing I have ever read! As Mister Slave would say, “Jesus Christ….”

    Had to post it to facebook to bug all of the 50 something babes I know who are so single!

  19. http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/the-difficulty-of-gaming-women-by-age-bracket/

    36 to 38 year olds

    She is at peace with her spinsterhood and her failure in the dating market. She will acquiesce easily and gratefully to sex with very little game, as long as you don’t look like a grandpa. Her expectations are so low, it will be a challenge to disappoint her.

    If you are prone to guilt, you might feel it when you inevitably dump a woman in this age range. Don’t. Remind yourself that her past is littered with her insouciant dumping of many beta men before you. You are merely an alpha agent of righteous karma.

    A Chateau proprietor once dated a European 37 year old for a couple of months. She looked years younger than her age, so the sex was fun and the time together was relaxed, but everything was glazed with a tint of sadness. A vow was made never to go much above 30 again. So far, the vow remains unbroken.

  20. Also missed is that young’uns are socially segregated until after organized educations ends. The quarterback or frat king can be shiny/sexy in the micro-society, then the deck shuffles after graduation.

    Hamstress, why are you dating an insurance intern? He was Sigma Chi!

  21. Did anyone catch the outrageously feminine-imperative phrase from the second article?

    Feast your eyes:

    And, of course, many women eventually do find a mate, often ending up with divorced men. There are complications with that second-marriage market, in which men come complete with former wives and children. That was never part of the plan.

    Ah, you see, it’s ok if women share their sex with other men, but if men share their commitment with other women, that was “never part of the plan”

    LOL.

    Amazing self-centered point of view modern women have. They want to be able to choose how often and to whom they give sex out to, but expect men who are pure and free from commitment to be waiting for them when they’re done bespoiling their major marital asset.

    The mind boggles at the flawed reasoning.

  22. @jeremy

    that’s an interesting observation. Since it’s claimed that Men have a problem with woman and the number of their sex partners – but the fact that woman want us to be commitment virgins – that’s a whole new dynamic to think about.

    Paints quite a pretty little picture doesn’t it!

  23. A man’s luggage from prior commitment is more obvious than a woman’s luggage from prior NSA sex, but both have strong effects.

  24. It is always useful to remind your current of how many you have had before her. Especially after she sees a 20 something gets stupid in your presence. Continually remind her that it takes extra effort to keep you. You have other options.

    Play her like a fish on a line. Let the line go slack and then reel her in. Make sure she constantly has to put in effort. So why let the line go slack? It is useful to have her feel comfortable on occasion. But not for long.

  25. What I wonder about all this post-feminism shaming on top of decades of feminist shaming on men, is whether they (women) will somehow manage to convince (nice) guys to accept that aging single mothers and/or carousel riders as their equivalent in either SMV or MMV.

  26. @Augustus

    I think the short answer is YES. We can talk about the SMV and the late 30’s & 40’s women out there – but the reality is that, there are plenty of NGs and WKs to beg for their attention, to date them, and to (re)marry them. Now, does that mean these woman will be happy? Probably not, they may believe that they love these men – because of some reason, either looks, status, money, etc. – but there will never be enough in those relationships to sustain their need – and these NGs and WKs will start to resemble their (ex)Husbands or (ex)Boyfriends with their neediness and beta-ways.

    Just like all those rides at Disneyland, they exit, and get back in line to ride again. And the whole cycle starts again. How many woman do you know that have been married more than once? Or maybe on third or fourth?

    Now, the numbers of “acceptable” woman starts to dwindle – with every new cycle,, they have to work harder to be at the top of their age bracket – and get compared to a wider “peer” group. It’s hard word to lose the weight, to get in shape (basically to look good with clothes on, because there are no illusions once they are off) maybe a bit of plastic surgery, some liposuction, a tummy tuck, new breasts – and they are ready for the next go round.

    And guess who gets to pay for all those improvements?? Yep, the same NGs and WKs that took them in.

    But I still say, if given an equal choice – ALL Men would select the younger woman. For those that have been married for more than 10 years, would you rather have your wife of today, or the woman you married 10 years ago? And be honest with your answer. (of course, she might want the YOU of 10 years ago also – it can go both ways).

  27. Question:

    I am a 35 year old man who is currently working on my business and is going to school. I would like to start a family in the next 5 years or so with a South American or Mexican woman once my business is settled and I am finished with my degree. Family is from Mexico and I speak Spanish fluently. I lift weights, do yoga, dress fashionably and have a charismatic social personality passed on from a father who was a natural.

    That being said, I am torn between selecting a woman from the US and staying here since family and friends are here or going to Mexico or SA but having to stay there due to all the incipient problems that marrying in CA creates. For guys who are in a similar pickle what is the best course ?

    Finding a Mexican or SA woman in CA is relatively easy but the ones that share my cultural interests all are now Americanized and well I might as well marry an American woman. The educated women from Mexico and SA are still feminine, respect traditional mores and have a certain elegance that appeals to my aesthetic taste. The only problem I have is what happens if I bring her back ? And while I love the idea of spending some time in Mexico or SA I dont want to cut myself off from my ties with family and friends here.

    Any advice ?

  28. Do not marry in Canada. In fact I am quite unfamiliar with how the law applies to people who marry elsewhere and move to Canada, but I suspect I never want to be a married man in Canada.

    My armchair-PUA-instinct says Mexico or SA is your best bet. There are places in SA and even Mexico that are not so bad to live in. However, you may be living in a “failed state”, that could turn on you inside of a year depending on the political winds.

    The best advice is always the most expensive, buy an island and avoid the developed world.

  29. @ Jeremy.

    Thanks. Yes, that’s what I have been leaning towards. I also considered marrying in Mexico or SA and then bringing her here to the US and monitoring her closely. All my family is traditionally Mexican so her immediate influence would be reinforced. However, one cant underestimate the American influence of the media, the general environment and any friends we may make in the process. The good thing is my friends are not SWPL although most of them are educated or self made and their wives are the same. It’s a shame one has to play the role of some international spy just to sire children. The good thing is by the time all this will come to pass I will have some offshore accounts and an exacting process of selecting the mother reinforced by my knowledge of the manosphere prior to meeting her.

  30. Just want to thank you for an excellent blog. I’ve read through a bunch of posts in the past couple of days and I see a lot of similarities with my own personal experiences.

    As for the SMV, there is definitely something to it. I’ll be 34 in a few weeks and I must say, it has never been easier for me to get girls. It’s not just that I’m more experienced and know the “game”, but women are actually approaching ME. And it’s not just 30-somethings either, it’s anything from 18 to high 30’s. So it would seem that my “value” has increased, a LOT.

    That is why I keep telling young guys that 30 is something to look forward to. I think for me, personally, it is a golden era.

  31. Yea, it became obvious to me that your 30s is a high point for SMV provided you have your shit together, are in shape and have game. That being said, using that high point to your advantage is the key. I have many friends in their 30s who are enjoying the easy poon by going out 3-5 nights a week, spending minimal amount of time working out or working on long term financial goals. Big mistake. In fact, its the same mistake those women in their 20s made by partying it up and thinking it was going to be like this forever who are now bawling in the comments section of that article that was linked.

    The key is to start being surgical in your dealings with women and razor like in your calculations. If you have any inclination towards family it would be high hubris to throw away high value women just because you think its going to be easy poon forever. Unless you plan on being an athlete, famous actor or multi millionaire in the next 5 years, maintain surgeon like precision in your movements.

    This is not shaming either this is fact. IMO you do get an extra 5-10 years if you are in incredible shape, already look much younger and travel to a foreign land and are of above average means. If you stay in the USA, are of average means, body and status its best for you to cash in ( provided you want children) by your late 30s.

  32. Hey man, always a pleasure to read credible well-written work. My take on SMV is this — it’s a technical indicator. It’s a relatively easy set of factors that create a line of the likely patterns of a market. It’s not a data point, you don’t reside in a finite or fixed session of trading if you are a white male aged 22 with 9 female prospects, 2 are feminine and one’s looks appear to pass the test of time.

    SMV is the first notion of the position people ASSUME you have because they have to make that guess. The drawback to being a world of such socially diverse and avalanching data is that people make assumptions that the presented truth is the truth.

    In short, SMV is merely something that gives signals to enter certain positions (ONS, LTR’s, Plates, Marriages, Child-Rearing) based upon likely positions. It only has importance in relation to the broadcast depth of your availability and the perceived intent of your actions that reside in your targets mind.

    _It only works because people were looking for something in it’s place to work._

  33. Funny thing is, women and feminized men totally understand the concept of sexual market value when they’re talking about older men, fat men, skinny men, broke men, socially awkward and nerdy men, shy men, or any other group of unattractive men who want the attention of attractive women. They have no problem whatsoever with telling those men that they need to lower their expectations if they want to find girlfriends.

    It’s only when we start talking about unattractive women that, suddenly, sex appeal is entirely subjective and random and not measurable in any meaningful way.

  34. It’s only when we start talking about unattractive women that, suddenly, sex appeal is entirely subjective and random and not measurable in any meaningful way.

    +1

  35. @Tin Man: Even though you’re the Tin Man, you’re definitely not living in the wonder land. 🙂

    And guess who gets to pay for all those improvements?? Yep, the same NGs and WKs that took them in.

    Exactly. It’s really impressive the amount of s**** that Nice Guys and White Knights receive from women. There should be more posts in the manosphere focused at explaining the new generations of boys why feminists want them to be Nice Guys and White Knights in the first place.

    If there is one major, great and I mean really GREAT positive aspect of the manosphere is telling men what it means form them to buy and believe all the feminist BS they’ve been taught and what it means to be a Nice Guy and White Knight. The manosphere literally saves lives in this regard.

  36. that’s an interesting observation. Since it’s claimed that Men have a problem with woman and the number of their sex partners – but the fact that woman want us to be commitment virgins – that’s a whole new dynamic to think about.

    Paints quite a pretty little picture doesn’t it!

    Another double standard! (Of so many…)

  37. Re:goodmanproject article

    She got all that from meeting a random kid on a skateboard for maybe a minute?

  38. dude whats going on really you gotta stop giving replys or whatever they are to that giggles dumb broad man stick to writing new material i loved that before, all this just seems like rants and i am right ur wrong kind of stuff yeah? will deffo buy ur book no worries man but im kinda over that giggles shite

  39. This challenges the widely held manosphere notion that women start losing their appeal once they hit their early 20s.

  40. I have created the 100% accurate SMV graph.

    Check it out. I spent years of my life on this one.

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