Anger Management


If the “postponement” of the ABC 20/20 manosphere “exposé” has taught us anything it’s that the writers seeking to cast light on the manosphere are looking for crazy. They need crazy because it’s the only thing they know how, or have the patience, to confront in as minimal an effort as it takes to type a few paragraphs dismissing it as misogyny.

Writers (vichy male writers) like R. Tod Kelly are also lazy. They see an opportunity for outrage and that sells advertising. They wanted Stormfront and what they got was a global consortium of rational, well reasoned men with jobs, families and intelligence, men from all walks of life, all ethnicities, and socioeconomic backgrounds expressing ideas that don’t fit into an acculturation of feminine primacy.

If you read Matt Forney’s 20/20 interview post you’ll see the desperation for crazy in their producer’s attempts to provoke him to become what they think he should be – a frothing, angry, hate-fueled misogynist. That would make it easy for them, they know how to sell crazy. The copy gets approved, the crazies get marginalized and we move on to the next Mabeline commercial.

But they didn’t get crazy from Matt, or Roosh (OK Paul Elam looks a bit like Charles Manson in a certain light), they got well reasoned, sensibility that was hard to argue against, so they attempted to prompt the crazy by barraging Roosh with questions about rape in the hopes that he’d blow up. He wouldn’t. They wanted it to be easy. They wanted to know all they needed to know about the manosphere by sourcing Manboobz, interviewing 3 manosphere bloggers and then trot out the crazy, show off the carnival freak, demonize and marginalize him and frog march the crazy off the stage. They wanted fringe, the easy kind of fringe that their journalism, communications and women’s studies classes taught them the easy answers to confront it with.

But the manosphere isn’t fringe. For as much as R. Tod Kelly, or the producers at ABC would like it to be, the manosphere is too broad, too comprehensive, too diverse for anyone unfamiliar with it to really understand it, much less deliver an unbiased objective opinion of it. So Kelly follows formula and makes the same lame attempts at simple aspersion and misogynistic dismissal 20/20 had already failed in doing (as evidenced by their show postponement). The Daily Beast wanted its formulaic red meat, but Kelly is just dishing out ABC’s cold left-overs.

Anger is a Gift

One of the more common criticisms lobbed at the manosphere in general is that the men contributing and commenting are just angry.

It’s the easiest reaction for men and women conditioned to feminine-primacy to retort with. If men are just “bitter”, “burned” and “angry” it absolve them of really having to think critically about what those men are proposing. Anger is one of those easy answers for people who don’t want to be exposed to things that either they don’t have a real answer for (such as JBY) or are too comfortable in their ego-investments that they don’t want to be forced into any kind of introspection that might challenge them.

So the manosphere is just a collection of angry men, shaking their virtual fists and venting their frustrations about their loser status, their tough luck or being on the sharp end of the SMP.

“There’s a lot of anger towards women in the manosphere. These misogynists think all women are evil bitches out to take half their money, steal their children and force them into indentured servitude. I pity them, really I do.”

Most appeals to anger read like some variation of this. While being an easy retort, playing the anger card is also a very useful social convention for the feminine in that it’s so culturally embedded that it’s men who display the most anger and therefore more believable. Anger is the perfect disqualifier for the feminine. Accusing a man of misogyny will always be more believable than accusing a woman of misandry because men are always just angrier than women.

Beyond the quick and easy dismissal of anger about anything even marginally critical a man might say about the feminine is an underlying conditioning that prompts people to it. By that I mean, to the majority of blue-pill plugged in people, anything critical of the feminine, by default, is rooted in anger. We can link this to women’s default status of victimhood, but even relating the most objective observation of behaviors, psychology or social constructs pertaining to the feminine in anything less than a flattering light is automatically suspect of a male anger bias.

But are we angry? I can’t say that I haven’t encountered a few guys on some forums and comment threads who I’d characterize as angry judging from their comments or describing their situations. For the greater whole I’d say the manosphere is not angry, but the views we express don’t align with a feminine-primary society. Men expressing a dissatisfaction with feminine-primacy, men coming together to make sense of it, sound angry to people who’s sense of comfort comes from what the feminine imperative has conditioned them to.

Most of the men who’ve expressed a genuine anger with me aren’t angry with women, but rather they’re angry with themselves for having been blind to the Game that they’d been a part of for so long in their blue-pill ignorance. They’re angry that they hadn’t figured it out sooner.

I understand that a lot of what is written in the manosphere can certainly be interpreted as coming from a source for anger. When I (or anyone else) outline the fundaments of hypergamy for instance, there’s a lot to be angry about for a man. Women get pissed because it exposes an ugly truth that the feminine exhausts a lot of resources to keep under the rug, but for men, learning about the feral reasons for feminine (and masculine) behaviors often enough cause a guy to become despondent or angry. That impression should never be the basis for a Man’s Game, nor is it ever really an aspect of internalizing Game that will benefit him personally.

It’s easy for women and blue-pill men to discourage a Man from red-pill self-improvement by convincing him he’ll turn into an angry Jerk who no woman would want to get with, but the truth is that learning Game isn’t the positively life altering revelation it is because it begins from a root anger. It’s successful because Men have a motivation to move past the anger or despondency that comes from a better understanding of the hows and whys of the feminine. They want a better life for themselves and the women they engage with. Whether that means upping a guy’s notch count or finding a woman worthy of his attentions and provisioning for monogamy, Men realize that their betterment with women and themselves doesn’t begin with anger, or hate, or crazy.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

109 comments on “Anger Management

  1. Great post.

    The only thing I have yet to really understand is if women on the whole understand what they do? Are they upset because things are being exposed or are they upset because they don’t even realize that they do this? I mean, is the “hamster” really that strong?

  2. Rollo, I’d love to read your commentary on the below ESPN video of two women discussing masculinity and how masculinity, as it exists, might find a better, more palatable expression.


    In my opinion, it’s nothing short of an assault on masculinity. Watch it and then try to imagine two men discussing ways in which femininity can be better and more properly expressed.

  3. Rollo – you hit it right on the head with where the “source” of this anger is — it’s not about being angry with woman, it’s the absolute annihilation of a belief system – in some cases, the first thing you do if “fight” against it, and that fight gets interpreted at anger. I was angry, not at my (x)wife, but at the shattering of how I believed the world work – at the realization that IF I had known more (probably the better term is being fully aware) – I potentially could have stopped the deterioration of my marriage. It is the time lost – which Men realize is a precious commodity and resource – it’s the thought of putting yourself first, that mission is primacy, that love stems from a different place for Men, than it does for women and ultimately that if you don’t know Game, then you end up being played.

    That may come out as anger at first – but once you get past that – because Men also understand “the journey” – then it becomes just a point in your life, like any other point of your life. If nothing else, we are a pragmatic lot.

  4. What s wrong with Stormfront?

    Btw,stop associating yourself with Roosh- that constantly butthurt looser has become a joke all around manosphere . Full time ” player” who gets laid 2-3 times a year,and only in poor towns of eastern europe where being foreign is still unusual. Pathetic representative of our sex,exactly the man we do not want to be…

    By siding with him-you basically devalue all the manopshere and all what we strive for.You make manosphere a very easy target for any media attack.

  5. @jemantendrai

    1. You neither speak for nor define the manosphere.
    2. Roosh has accomplished, influenced and yes, inspired more than you ever will.
    3. U jelli? U hatin? U sound liek butthurtz WN knowwhatimean?

    p.s. notarooshiepuawhatever, not that that won’t stop you from trying to paint me as one, but knock yourself out. please.

  6. @ BC

    1.Ofcourse I do,it relies on guys like me,the readership of the blogs.
    2. Actually I have accomplished more than him.Both in terms of career,women and flags.I know more about eastern europe,southern europe and latin america than he does.Life experience.Inspired?Well yes I don’t write (in English,I write in my onw language) and not planning to.And than I would not like being responsible for inspiring men that being beta is ok,that self improving is not necessary because you can always escape to a shit hole in romania and get laid.Roosh is anti-game.In a way he is worth than a feminist.
    3.Stop copying da GBFM,you are pathetic.

  7. @ BC
    and btw yes I’m hating.roosh and his team of butthurt betas is the biggest threat to the red pill men movement.He makes us look stupid.
    Given the opportunity I will beat his black middle-eastern ass into submission,because reasoning won’t work neither.He has neither intelligence nor courage to reason.

    This is why I am upset when I see a praise to him in blogs I really like and authors I appreciate (like Rollo).

  8. Contra all of these mainstream hacks, the manosphere has done more to dispel the frustration and anger that I had felt my entire life than any religion, smarmy folk wisdom purveyor, pop psych huckster, or self-help snake oil fraud could ever hope to. Find the angriest commenter in the manosphere and just give him a few months; once he finds his footing in the brand new paradigm that is to be found here, he will be able to discard a lifetime of nameless animus like yesterday’s trash. There is peace of mind available here

  9. slightly OT (or perhaps on topic), you should be pleased to note that your exposure has spread to the mainstream down under here in Australia. You are mentioned in the comments section along with heartiste:

    Of course, the writer, being a feminist for a feminist paper with a feminist agenda, is highly judgemental and either completely oblivious or in denial due to living in her feminist eco bubble (she dismisses the suggestion that any sane women would dare give her number to a man in a bookstore (hello creep alert!)).

    And of course, the comments section is full of personal attacks, distortions, non-sequitirs, essentially feminist 101 arguing tactics. but positively, there is evidence of a growing number of readers of mainstream media who are cottoning on to non-mainstream media, red-pill beliefs. keep up the good work.

  10. Anger is unproductive in the whole scheme of things, but any man starting off reading blogs of this kind can misconstrue in the early stages as it being a case of detesting women and all will be better from there on in. He’d be wrong, as anger is a member of the same family as bitterness, jealousy, hostility and the chip on your shoulder. I bet we all know men and women in this bracket.

    Nevertheless, you can forgive a naive man to use this as his stress relieving punch bag. This is why I believe very few men who read these blogs do not, as yet, use them to a productive level. They either disregard the literature when practical situations, or they go to the other extreme and look to cause arguments with women at any given opportunity. The latter is more prudent than being a lapdog, but in time constrained moments women with damaged egos will dismiss men for being confrontational, anxious and bombarding with philosophy of red pill syndrome. I’m not going to lie, I’ve made these same mistakes in the past.

    The great balance derives from calm, collective and couldn’t give a crap attitude. Throw in an infrequent smile and a frown to compliment the dominated smirk. It never fails to amaze me how much a woman is drawn towards men who ignore her existence but then reel her in once picking up on her attraction. For the average guy trying to attract a woman in preliminary stage, go with 75/25 apathy to interest ratio. If you’re from the good looking male luxury, it will need to be nearer 50/50.

  11. I too felt a combination of anger and sadness from the realization of the lost time and lost opportunities.

    Now I feel peace and contentment bordering on joy, because learning and realizing deep truths about life are essential to a good life.

  12. The issue goes deeper than that…. anger is the only emotion that men are allowed to express strongly in a public forum, at least in this society. Passion in work is also allowed, but only in the face of positive events. Anger is the reaction allowed to men facing major stress.

    So by definition, anger must be the reaction that men are having when they write or comment.

    Accusing men of anger is, again by definition, a mere restatement of a priori knowledge, if you believe that the only emotion allowed to men is anger. It’s not even an argument.

    The irony is that allowing men to feel only anger towards challenging life events involving women is that there is no explanation for how men are supposed to simultaneously be angry but still be motivated to enter into 2nd and 3rd marriages for all these divorced women looking to remarry.

    We know the answer: the FI wants men to feel nothing and just line up again and again to let women do what they want to do.

  13. The funny thing is, women (and male feminists) are actually the ones who tend to be emotionally volatile, angry, and violent. I’ve been slowly putting together a post on that very subject. It’s really odd that they are so angry, given that they control the dominant social framework.

    The men I’ve interacted with in the manosphere are sometimes angry, but almost never in an emotionally-volatile way. It is important to note that there is such a thing as righteous anger:

    God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. – Psalms 7:11 (KJV)

    When someone has behaved in an evil manner, it is moral to be angry about their behavior. If anyone has cause to be righteously angry, it is men in our modern, feministic culture.

  14. “Anger is unproductive in the whole scheme of things”

    You could not be more wrong. Everything has its time and place, including anger. Anger is an excellent motivator. It’s only harmful when it does not find a proper means of expression, or when it drives someone to do something harmful.

  15. Yes on the subject of MY anger… It’s not directed at women, it’s directed at myself. I jumped into this website a couple months ago and have been devouring every manosphere source I can get my hands on since. Fucking mind blowing.

    The truth is that with this new wisdom I’ve looked back on the last 10 years of my marriage absolutely appalled and embarrassed at the way I’ve behaved.

    But my betatude goes much deeper than that… All the way back to high school in fact. While I actually have probably gotten laid way more than the average man in my lifetime, the most success I had was when I couldn’t have cared less about my conquests. These episodes were punctuated with me falling head over heels for some chick, pedestalizing her, and then being shocked and confused when they suddenly grew cold and distant. You would think that I would have put two and two together before now, but I guess I was just that fucking dense.

    I think a huge contributor to how I flaccidly dealt with women was my mom… Raised largely in a single family household, father a typical beta, divorce, mom remarried (my dad’s best friend!), second divorce, and so on… Interestingly, while I’ve always thought of my dad as a loser and a chump, I’ve always had this really deep-seated resentment towards my mother. I never understood why and always felt guilty about it until now…

    Really don’t mean this to sound like a victim puke, so now for the good news.

    The power of game can change your life remarkably fast. In my case, within weeks as soon as I changed my entire frame to DHV (posture, cockiness, aloofness, fake it till you make it, etc.). Married women openly flirting with me… A single woman flat out propositioning me on an airline flight — and she KNEW I was married. Women nervously walking up to OPEN ME in bars!

    Wife picked up on the DHV immediately as soon as I changed my frame. An example from just last week: Leaving for a business trip and wife says “don’t screw some random woman or some prostitute while you’re gone.” In the past my answer would have been “oh no baby, you’re the only one for me”… This time: “Baby, I could screw hundreds of random women and I guarantee you I’d never have to pay for it” — delivered with a shit eating grin. Her: Wraps her arms around me and literally grinds her crotch into me… Visceral and blatant.

    Sex: Piss poor sex life for past several years already turning around dramatically from maybe once a month to several times a week. The reason: I no longer “make love” to her… Now I fuck her… Hard… Pull her hair, spank her ass, make her blow me. Sadly, she was the one who told me years ago that she didn’t want to “make love”, she wanted to get fucked. I was just too stuck in the feminist imperative to get it through my thick skull.

    Bottom line: I’ve finally internalized that there’s this gigantic ocean out there just swimming with pussy and it’s there for the taking. The marriage ultimately may work out or it may not, but if it does it will be because I no longer put the wife on a pedestal… It’s counterintuitive as shit, but the less I give a shit about the outcome, the better the chances are.

    And if it doesn’t? I now know that anytime I want, I can be knee deep in snatch by sundown.

    One final point: If you haven’t watched it, rent the movie Blue Valentine… It’s a gutturally depressing look at how a marriage dissolves when a husband goes beta. It literally made me cringe in embarrassment because I saw so much of my former self in the husband’s character.


  16. I should point out that Anger is the 2nd Stage of unplugging:

    2. Anger – Post-Red Pill: “This is ridiculous! Why should I have to jump through all these hoops for women? I just want to be myself. Why couldn’t I have been a Natural Alpha®? I blame my parents/siblings/teachers/God/liberals/feminists/media/society, maybe George Sodini, Andres Breivik, James Holmes wasn’t so crazy after all.”

  17. There is nothing wrong with anger, especially righteous anger in the face of injustices. Every time I read about the divorce stories, I get angry because injustice in this world angers me.

    When I found out that Obamacare had regulated away my health insurance for me and my family (including my infant son), I got angry and made an angry post on Facebook. All these sensitive people came out of the woodwork asking me if I was okay. I had to explain to them that my anger is a healthy response to being lied to and financially raped by the government.

    It amazes me that nobody in America understands that anger is an emotion and can be used for good purposes. It makes us passionate to fight for what is right. I’d rather this nation be a country of angry people than passive people in the face of evil.

    But no, the manosphere is not an outfit of angry men. Most of the comments from veteran members indicates that they are simply more aware how the real world works when it comes to socio-sexual relations.

    Newcomers will be angry, no question. It is a natural response to having been lied to or the discovery of self-deception. But over time, they get over it and just laugh with the rest of us.

  18. Watching the mainstream try to dissect the manosphere is like when I was in the Peace Corps and would watch liberal arts graduates with 12 weeks of agricultural training try to teach lifetime farmers new farming techniques. The guys who had been doing it for 40+ years looked at them like they were nuts.

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  20. Carlito

    Man, your story is mine, except my wife already left. In the last 18 months I have gone thru the pain of taking the red pill and reevaluating all the bs I was conditioned with. I too hold alot of resentment for my Mon who broke up our family and my dad who is a beta and victim to my moms henpecking. Mom rode the carousel and then married a beta after the divorce. My mom actually encouraged my wife’s leaving me, WTF? I became uber beta in the marriage towards the end of my marriage. Wont do that again.

    Anyways, I am reinventing myself and I look to the future with anticipation. I was banged lots of chicks when i was young and just need to put back on my old good habits. Now i know why I was the way i was and can now focus like a laser.

  21. Women get pissed because it exposes an ugly truth that the feminine exhausts a lot of resources to keep under the rug

    Yes, but it’s much more than this. Sex is our power and explaining our motivations in a way that men understand exactly what those motivations are removes most of that power (if not all of it, depending on the man). Take that from most women and they have no idea how to deal with men next. Women go from being chased to having to do the chasing . . . then what?

  22. “Women go from being chased to having to do the chasing . . . then what?”

    Then things return to normal.

  23. Will,

    Yes, the hamster can be that strong. On the whole, women have a vague understanding of what they do, but they don’t want to admit it even to themselves. So, they rationalize it away. Someone posted a video recently where a video crew interviewed women and asked them about their LJBF’s. The interviewer asked, “If you showed interest, would your LJBF have sex with you?” Each one (that was shown) laughed with embarrassment and said yes or made it very plain by her facial expression what the answer would be.

    It’s amazingly easy to rationalize stuff like this away, especially when encouraged to do so.

  24. Earl,

    Exactly, but women no longer understand how to work normal. They haven’t a clue how to chase and neither do they have any desire to learn.

  25. That’s their problem.

    I had to relearn masculinity…and found it quite benefical. Perhaps women would come to the same conclusion if they relearn the feminine.

    All it takes is some time and hard work. Quick fixes, reading self-help books, weekend seminars…won’t cut it.

  26. Earl,

    Completely agree. I’m merely trying to explain their thoughts and why they respond as they do. It’s driven by fear . . . and laziness.

  27. Liberals believe in “righteous” anger, “righteous” hatred, “righteous” shaming, etc when they do it. Those emotions and tactics are only off limits when they involve things liberals don’t agree with.

    Objectively, anger can be appropriate to your value system under the situations you find might yourself in.

    I’m not angry with myself for being lied to all these years. And I am not angry at evolutionarily induced impulses in either men or women.

    But!!! I also know that both men and women have cognitive facilities that allow them to step beyond their basic instincts when those instincts are no longer life-affirming. For instance, to pick an extreme case, a woman who proposes marriage to an imprisoned serial killer doesn’t get my sympathy, she earns my contempt. She has the brain power to recognize that the tingles don’t justify the follow-on action. I hate her for her choice. Not for her impulse.

  28. Though my circumstances and origin are different from Carlito’s, this describes me as well, to a T:

    The truth is that with this new wisdom I’ve looked back on the last 10 years of my marriage absolutely appalled and embarrassed at the way I’ve behaved.

    But my betatude goes much deeper than that… All the way back to high school in fact.

    Like Earl, I tried for so long to suppress my natural impulses, my masculinity, everything that’s actually attractive, and drove myself deep into betatude. Actually worse than that: per Vox’s way of describing things, I was a sigma trying to be beta… which leads straight to gamma. Now that, friends, is embarrassing. Unlearning all that crap has been a painful and occasionally angering chore. But I knew I was on the right track when I started inadvertently annoying the alphas again. Ah, the sweet outsider’s smell of sigmaland!

    Like the others, I’m occasionally saddened, disappointed, or disgusted by feminine behavior, but outside of actual evil done, which is broadly human and specific to no sex, my anger isn’t directed at them. Just me.

  29. I can relate to everything that Carlito at Nov 7, 9:44 is saying.

    I took the Red Pill a few years ago and feel like I just recently got through the anger phase. (An anger that is a mixture of disappointment in one’s self, and just a generalized feeling of being ripped off.)

    But what I find interesting, at least in my case, is how the Blue Pill/feminine imperative conditioning runs so deep.

    Example-I’m in my late 40s. Lift weights, dress well, good grooming and overall have adopted a more “Alpha” frame. Also, recently joined a rock band to play bass. I was on my way home on transit last night with my bass guitar in a gig bag after a band rehearsal. This very attractive and sexy woman half my age is glancing at me, playing with her hair, removes her coat, subtly opens her body a bit more toward me.– I mean every attraction sign in the book and more. Yet, part of my mind is asking, OK is she drunk?-Nope. Is she high?-Nope. Is she a working girl? -Nope. Is she a tranny? – Nope

    It suprised me that I was filtering because somewere in my brain there is still residual conditioning that says this chick could not or should not be interested because such an age difference is not appropriate. Yet every non-verbal sign was saying that she simply wanted to be plowed by Daddy McBadboy Bass Player®.

    Right now i’m noticing these disconnects between the plugged in world and the real one quite often. It’s been an interesting journey and though I got unplugged late in life, and can maybe never completely jettison my old self completely, I do look forward to the new and better man that I’m becoming.

    But on to more important questions. If my band starts gigging around town, who’s gonna get the most chicks? The singer, the drummer, the guitar player, or the bass player? I’m a little worried that bass is beta. 🙂

  30. I think you’re divorcing yourself from some of the realities of men currently fighting the SMP wars.

    In your situation, you’ve married and reared an offspring and have probably manifest the most ideal form of patriarchy/matrimony/parenthood possible under the present conditions.

    A lot of those with skin in the game are, in fact, angry. The stock of women worth more than Roosh-gaming into a quick pump and dump is next to nil. The ability to carve out a decent living is rapidly eroded for one just exiting university. The expectations of boomer-produced millenial/late X women are insane for the ridiculously r-selected abundance mentality that pervaded their childhood and will not be returning any time soon.

    It isn’t anger directed at women, per se, but more a chaffing at the idea of spinning as the perpetual cog. You want me to bust my ass for far less than the equivalent of what the preceding generation earned in terms of wage and upward mobility? You want me to use ‘Game’ to entertain the feeble vapid minds of the liberated party-grrl class and catch a rape charge if someone posts it on instagram? You want me to ‘Man Up’ and pick up the tab on a 30 y/o woman that spent her most fertile years carouseling and yoloing? I say fuck you, that deal sucks.

    Game isn’t the panacea to the problem. The some of most skilled “players” in the Manosphere seem to be doing little more than endlessly turning the wheels of hamsters for some small measure of power and satisfaction, without realizing their role as prized cog in a fem-centric system.

  31. Good to be angry when first ingesting the red pill. Nothing wrong with that anger whatever society might say about it.
    But … not so good to keep the anger. It will eat you if you let it. Got to set that down in order to get on with your life. In a different direction, hopefully.

    That’s this post in a nutshell.

  32. I swallowed the red pill in my late forties and yes, there was anger at all the lost time and opportunities resulting from the inexorable grinding operation of the Feminine Imperative. Also, anger at not having reached the truth on my own. Most of us have sensed glitches in the matrix at some point in our blue pill days and experienced anger at not having picked up the now seemingly obvious threads. Especially since they seem so glaringly obvious now, with 20/20 red pill hindsight.

    There was a brief period of anger towards the discovery of women’s hypergamous nature, but this quickly passed as I realized that women can control that no more than we can control staring at a nice rack. So, no, the manosphere is not angry, it is salient. And women hate that. The Feminine Imperative bristles at being understood and observed, fomenting hate from its servants. How dare these men peek behind the curtain! Hell hath no fury like the Feminine Imperative scorned!

  33. This is a great post. To position the “manosphere” as angry is a total misrepresentation but it’s also bowing to the feminist imperative.

    What’s interesting is that since learning game I’ve become happier. But I’ve also encounter super angry girls. Being a man and standing your ground brings out either the best or worst qualities in women.

    Girl breaks up with me…i don’t get angry with her, I disappear, she gets angry because not falling to pieces at losing her somehow violates her feminist imperative.

    “positive masculinity” is another term for the “manosphere” and how it could be better communicated to the mainstream.

    Frustrated at times, curious and keen to improve, but angry? No.

  34. The ABC show is the migration from “ignoring them” to “ridiculing them”. Next up will be the “attacking them”. But…. the attack is NOT the most dangerous moment.

    The most dangerous moment will be when they migrate to the FINAL stage: claiming “we invented it, you know!”

    What would a networkTV “manosphere empowerment” sitcom look like?

  35. Rollo,

    Most of the time I spent angry or despondent in the manosphere came from reading many of the things you wrote. Don’t take that the wrong way, I’d been reading game for a while when I bumbled into this place and you helped me temper my new found success with caution.

    While much of the manosphere teaches men how to get women and/or maintain positive outcomes in our relationships with them. You seem to focus more on the cautionary tales, the potential downsides and the awful traps we could fall into. This awareness you provide has probably kept dozens, or even hundreds, of men from becoming yet another divorce horror story or suicidal case of oneitis.

    It’s not too difficult to find anger or even actual hatred within the manosphere but if someone were to take an equally critical look at feminism it’s even less difficult to find there. If the MSM were willing to do an expose on Femtheist, Andrea Dworkin or even the average Jezebel commenter, a higher percentage and degree of hatred could be gathered. Femcentrism being the order of the day , I’m not holding my breath for that to happen anytime soon.

    Still, the message is spreading, more men and women are waking up and sooner or later balance will return.

  36. Apart from the personal anger discovering you have been an unwitting gimp played by social programmers, I think a lot of the anger comes from reading the absolutely horrendous personal stories that get swept under the carpet by the wider community.

    Poor hapless men through little fault of their own being utterly destroyed without an iota of empathy. Take Rollo’s bother in law for example.

  37. ON RIGHT NOW: “On Air with Ryan Seacrest” will be doing a segment live this hour, and you’ll recognize Rollo Tomassi concepts from his book “The Rational Male” including

    “Just on the face of it the assertion is silly, but as I said, for women it’s empowering to think that women are ‘just as sexual’ as men and female-identifiers are all too happy to reinforce that meme because it offers them the hope of getting laid with one of these ‘sexually repressed’ women”

    “Good girls are just bad girls who never got caught”
    “the power of the takeaway”

    You’re not going to like everything you hear because the show is focused, primarily on women, but tune in @iheartradio – it’s KIIS-FM Los Angeles (that’s 102.7 if you’re here in town).

  38. The entire 20/20 hatchet job is a giant attempt at reframing.

    Bear in mind the audience for 20/20 is mainly women over 50 years of age. Aging 2nd stage feminists in large part. Aunt Giggles and her sistahs.

    Best then for men to do is refuse that reframe – deflect, ignore, etc. while stating the truth in simple terms. Things like;

    * Marriage is a very bad deal for men, but a good deal for women. So more and more men see no point in it.

    * Men and women are different. The idea that men and women are the same except women can have babies is simply not based on science.

    * The educational establishment is anti-man. Primary schools work very hard to turn boys into girls. Colleges shame men for being men.

    And so forth.

  39. “You have learned something. That always feels at first as if you had lost something.

    “Adapt or perish, now as ever, is nature’s inexorable imperative.”

    “Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.”

    -H.G. Wells

  40. “There’s a lot of anger towards women in the manosphere. These misogynists think all women are evil bitches out to take half their money, steal their children and force them into indentured servitude. I pity them, really I do.”

    That’s rich coming from the female sex that primarily relies on and uses anger and other strong emotional outbursts to bully and manipulate men, rather than rational argument to convince.

  41. The Modern Feminist movement is nothing BUT anger and emotion. That is why they try to paint the men’s movement as such. They don’t like the competition for attention.

  42. This anti-male “framing” the main stream media constantly indulges – concerning matters of gender – has become so blatant that its bordering on comedy.

    Female Activist – Passionate
    Male Activist – Angry

    Woman fighting discrimination – Brave
    Man fighting discrimination – Bitter

    Woman victim of prejudice – Hurt
    Man victim of prejudice – Buthurt

    Woman speaks out against injustice – Strong
    Man speaks out against injustice – Whiner

    I wonder how this 20/20 interview would read if we stripped away all the fem-centric bias…

  43. Like this perhaps…

    Deep in the *heart* of the Internet is a hidden corner known as the “Manosphere”— a collection of websites, Facebook pages and chat rooms where men *express* their *concerns* and *voice* anti-*Feminist ideas*.

    Protected by the anonymity of the Internet, men feel free to post *passionate* and *heart felt* comments. Posts such as “I really wouldn’t mind shooting a [expletive] dead in the face, they are evil, all of them,” and “Women are the natural enemies of men” *are strictly prohibited* on sites like “A Voice for Men,” a Manosphere blog run by Paul Elam.

    Elam told ABC News’ “20/20” that while he may not agree with some of the comments that are made on his site, he believes men are society’s victims and need a forum to vent.

    “There has been a change in the world, especially in the last 50 years. Women’s roles have changed drastically,” he told “20/20.” “What a lot of us in this area find is that men’s roles have not changed very much. Many find now that they have to react.”
    Elam explained that men leave these comments in the Manosphere to get people to listen.

    “It’s … very much designed to get someone like you to sit down and ask me questions,” he told 20/20’s Elizabeth Vargas. “We are addressing a group of problems that this society ignores.”

    Elam said institutions like marriage and corrupt family courts have become dangerous for men.

    “Marriage has become unsafe ground for men, because we have corrupt family courts that practice bias against men and fathers routinely,” he told 20/20. “And men are waking up to this, that they don’t get a fair deal.”

    While Elam told “20/20” that his site does not promote violence or hate toward women, some of his writing *may appear to some* as otherwise. In a post on his website, Elam wrote that women on welfare are “little more than thinly disguised layabouts.”

    Elam claimed it’s not anger but satire and social commentary. “What I do is reflect and study what the attitude is in the culture,” he told “20/20.” “I am not creating the problem, I am documenting some of it.”

    But *pundits* like Mark Potok, from the *notoriously anti-male* Southern Poverty Law Centre, believe *these opinions* are problematic. “The Manosphere is a *collection* of *male* rights groups and individuals on the Internet, which is *filled* with really *passionate* anti-Feminist views,” Potok told “20/20.” And when a *hard-line man-hater* is on the receiving end of these *opinions* , the Manosphere is unflinching in its *resolve*.

    “*Anti-male activists* who *engage* these sites *naturally* get *views and opinions they find uncomfortable to accept*,” *anti-male activist* Jaclyn Friedman, founder of Women, Action & the Media, told “20/20.”

    *Feminist activist* Anita Sarkeesian, a media critic and blogger, learned this the hard way after campaigning on Kickstarter to raise funds for a web series on the roles of women in video games. The *answer* from the Manosphere was swift.

    “It was … thousands of people “*making fun of* me,” Sarkeesian told “20/20.” “*, sarcasm, Irony and even mock-video-game-parody were all used to ridicule my campaign* she said.

    “*Some pranksters* Photoshoped and manipulated pornographic images and put my face on them,” Sarkeesian said. The mischievous gamers even designed a video game about her named “Beat the [expletive] Up.” “Players were invited to click on the screen, and an image of me would become increasingly battered and bruised,” * *an un-amused* Sarkeesian said.

    Friedman was also the subject of *online criticism* after campaigning on Facebook to remove photos and groups that promoted *ant-feminist opinions.

    “I got emails and tweets and posts on Facebook that say, ‘You are disgusting. You are fat. No one would ever want you. And one *(that many in the Manosphere suspect was sent by a feminist agent provocateur)* – You should be raped,” Friedman *claimed*.

    Friedman said the Manosphere is not satire as Elam claimed, but a space for people to criticise feminist.

    “If you look at what they actually do, it’s all *about pushing back hard-core anti-male feminism,” she told “20/20.” “And it *is starting to have a* real impact in the real world.”

  44. What do you all have against Roosh? Nothing I have read from him stands out as awful. What am I missing?

  45. Great post. But how do we as a whole fight back against people with an existing agenda going in? Obviously you could just say “ignore them” but we want to be taken seriously as well. I suppose continuing to make our arguments rational and somewhat accessible is the only option.

  46. What is “Anger”? I once heard a speaker at a men’s ministries breakfast define it as “unmet expectation..” which is a profound definition. So the question then becomes – “What is the expectation that is unmet? Is it irrational? Is it delusional? Who knows – but you have to ask the follow-up questions. By labeling someone as “angry”, then the labeler is only doing what dismissive others have done in the past – but now it is OK because, well – you know – your group is doing it? hahahahahahaha – WOW! so that is their “moral” argument. Pretty sad really.

  47. the journalists didn’t get the reaction they wanted – ( narrative fail) – their “expectation” was not met – therefore, by definition, they are “Angry…” Wow. See how fun this is……..

  48. Going along the lines of unmet expectation, I believe that comes directly back to the personal – which is why the anger usually gets redirected to “me” rather than to “her” or woman in general.

    I’m still sorting through my anger, although now it is more along the lines of disappointment in myself, because once I (re)learned the underlying context, I was angry at myself for (1) not being aware of it (2) not understanding it better and (3) not doing something, or taking an aggressive action to fix it. Ultimately, “it” is me – not being aware of what it takes to be a Man, Husband, Father. My wife said that the change in me happened the night we were getting ready for bed, and I blurted out “wow, you’re pregnant” – now I knew she was pregnant, but once I “saw” the change in her body – that it became visually evident to me, Before that time, I acted like the Man that married her. After that, I started acting different, and in many cases, it was the first step to becoming the great American beta-husband..

    I think the default place a Man goes when in a LTR or marriage is “this is a partnership, let’s work together to make it work” – and the most human trait is to mirror our thoughts and expectations onto other people. That’s the expectation I had that was not met – at least ultimately. I bought into the whole wedding vow thing – I was committed to the death do us part – regardless of the shit we might have to endure.

  49. Tinman, I remember reading somewhere, that there is a hormonal change that occurs within a lot of men when their partner exhibits signs of pregnancy. The authors, if I remember correctly, postulated this was an evolutionary happening that led to men committing to the welfare of their children, thus giving their genes a far more significant chance of surviving.

    It seems to me to have been a winning strategy, as humankind is the dominant species now residing on this rock.

  50. Well, that makes sense. I remember thinking at the time – well, time to grow up and make this thing work – no more playing around. The suck thing is – at that point, my choices became much more calculated and based more upon risk aversion. Prior to that time, it was just me – taking big risks only affected me – and I knew I could do it.

    After reading Athol – I realized that my decisions in the realm of “getting along” (all those little side steps many married men make) ended up being the same things that made the sexual attraction start to drain. That’s what I didn’t know, and finding that out made me angry – once again, not at anyone other than me.

    But hey, now that I’m divorced, I can go back to making those decision for myself again, with the burden of having a wife – because my kids just tell to me to “go for it” – they think they will live forever anyway.

  51. Whatever the manosphere is, it is best to not conflate game/players with Christianity. They are not the same things although the advocates seem to align them together. That’s my main complaint. Christianity needs its own specific point of view. It is easy to see how they are related and the manosphere is arguing from that point of view without separating out the destructive player aspects. Imagine you have a devil on one shoulder and an angel on other. The whole argument is from the devil’s conscience and not the angel. Well, that’s the manosphere. Nice to see the constant Biblical references. It’s almost comforting if not so misleading.

  52. Masculine anger is very scary for the feminine imperative because the ultimate expression of masculine anger is violence. Revolutions are caused by angry men.If the MSM can find even one Manosphere guy angrily frothing at the mouth, all Red Pill guys will be painted with that broad brush and be marginalized (at least in the MSM).

  53. It is almost impossible for a man not to pass through an anger stage when he firstrealize that he hase been sold a false story about women by society and its media and that he believed that pack of lie for a very long time, missing precious opportunities in the process. When I first came across the manosphere ideas on the internet, and I began to descover the sexual strategies and the hypergamous nature of women (which I was intuitively aware of but was not able to pinpoint or understand how deep it reaches to the female core until then), my initial reaction was shock and disgust toward women in general, thinking that they were deliberately conceiling the truth about their nature from the average man.

    But as I began to understand the evolutionary reason for this and many other ambivalent behaviours of females, I then realized that it was pointless trying to beat myself up over something that is so beyond any control. What I decided to do was to just leave women alone and improve myself as best as I can. I am now approaching life from an ampowered and illusion-free perspective. Right now, I am a confirmed MGTOW, meeting women on a random basis and dealing with them with clarity of mind and without putting myself available for exploitation. Although this may sound like bitterness, I prefer to think of it as pragmatism and self-preservation. I just don’t see any good reason for me to put up with all the endless dramas just to be with a woman or women.

  54. Women in LTRs are far angrier. Every one of them, by month 7, has exploded into an uncontrolled rage as if a demon possessed them, and done things like hit the man or flick him in the ear or throw things. Now ask yourself what would happen if a man did that?

  55. I’m angry at anyone who does the opposite of Christlike, while claiming to be Christlike, male or female, including myself, all the time, and always have been.

    I’m such a black and white personality type. So passionate about things that really matter in the long term but short-sighted on practical everyday matter. So yeah, the political side of things gets overwhelming, the social-economic trends and how that affects all of our lives, the divorce industry, abortion, all of these things drive me absolutely nuts.

    Sure, I resent having not learned a lot of things earlier, like others, but I just try to focus on putting all my energy into filtering everything through the lens of Christ.

    In this perspective, all women are our sisters, in God. We are to love them as such, including fair and equitable treatment, an agreeable minimum of politeness, and to all humans, love (in SOME of the Greek definitions).

    But loving a sister and looking for a woman to have kids with are such different endeavors that I don’t even need to argue further the need to be selective and choosy, with the right priorities in mind.

    I think most of the collective anger is definitely aimed inward for not joining Morpheus and Trinity sooner.

  56. And anger can be good if you put it into learning the good side of the Force and not the Dark side, to use another analogy. Don’t listen to Palpatine, listen to Yoda.

  57. Pingback: The Apologists |
  58. This was a great read, Rollo. I have to admit that I’ve experienced fast dismissals of my viewpoints due to my anger; real or imagined.

    In the short time I’ve been aware of Red Pill wisdom, authors have been quick to illustrate the convenience of being dismissed as “angry”, “bitter”, “unable to get laid”, or being “butt hurt.” – cleverly intended remove any credibility.

    I would like to think that I’m starting to overcome this anger with an idea shared by a RoK commentator: “The first mistake most men make is to take a woman serious on what flows from her mouth.” I follow this advice, but irregularly. When I do, it seems to go a long way towards shifting my focus on something worth it.

  59. “When someone has behaved in an evil manner, it is moral to be angry about their behavior. If anyone has cause to be righteously angry, it is men in our modern, feministic culture.”

    Thank you, Sunshine Mary. Indeed. And nothing is more evil than a woman taking children’s father from them when he has not been violent and is a loving father.

  60. Nicholas, I’ve been asking the same question and trying real hard for 6 years now. Even had a hottie girlfriend who wanted to marry me. Nobody who has not experienced it can relate to divorce and child theft when one is a good father who was never close to violent. I see my kids, but not every day in a loving home with a respectful wife, as was the kids’ right. It is mind boggling. We get only one life, too.

  61. “Most of the men who’ve expressed a genuine anger with me aren’t angry with women, but rather they’re angry with themselves for having been blind to the Game that they’d been a part of for so long in their blue-pill ignorance. They’re angry that they hadn’t figured it out sooner.”

    Brilliantly correct.

  62. Rollo, idealistic Aspie nice guys are especially vulnerable to a mistaken blue pill narrative, chasing and getting exploited by disinterested women. They have good reason to be angry with the injustice of the SMP and “angry that they hadn’t figured it out sooner.”

    Now with the benefit of hindsight, how do you feel about the homophobic, racist, alt-right drift of the manosphere? Do you acknowledge significant overlap with fat, broke losers who feel entitled to gorgeous, slim women? I feel like you are ignoring or condoning the repulsive elements of the manosphere. IMO, the presence of these haters delegitimizes mens’ valid complaints and undermines constructive male dialogue.

    1. KL
      “the presence of these haters delegitimizes mens’ valid complaints and undermines constructive male dialogue.”
      Good point

    2. @KL, the ‘Red Pill’ monicker has been appropriated by so man ‘alt-whatever’ movements and MRAs that I could spend a month writing condonement comments and posts and it still wouldn’t be enough to satisfy the critics who think my silence is complicity.

      I write what I write. I only write about race, politics or religion when the topic is related to intersexual dynamics. There are precious few fat, broke losers in my sphere and none of the men who are feel in any way entitled to beautiful women. In fact, if anything, most of these guys will beat themselves up to improve their lots in order to get to those women.

      I’d agree that the few who are delegitimize men’s dialogue, but more commonly it’s blanket complaints about how angry men are in TRP that’s used to dismiss it.

    1. Oh I know it’s there, but I fail to see how it’s in any way productive to have to constantly address the Purple Pills, MRAs, MGTOWs, Alt-whatevers, and a feminist-but-not-a-feminist, about their appropriating “The Red Pill”as their term of choice. It’s like playing Whack-A-Mole and I’m not the fucking babysitter.

      Yeah, some guys are going to dwell on the anger phase of unplugging and the more social maladjusted they are the likelier that’s going to happen. I have countless posts (including this one) that encourages men to accept Red Pill awareness for what it is and put their new wisdom to more productive uses, but no one likes to have to read and internalize that. It’s all TL;DR and then complain about how angry terpers are. It’s disingenuous because critics of TRP just want to dismiss the uncomfortable RP truths that don’t fit into their conditioned beliefs by poisoning the well and saying it’s all motivated by anger. It’s not. It’s fucking education and it’s hard lessons.

  63. KL
    Rollo, idealistic Aspie nice guys are especially vulnerable to a mistaken blue pill narrative, chasing and getting exploited by disinterested women. They have good reason to be angry with the injustice of the SMP and “angry that they hadn’t figured it out sooner.”

    Do you describe yourself as an “idealistic, Aspie nice guy”? Or are you referring to someone you know? Or are you just tossing in a bit of pretend-concern before trolling with this bait:

    Now with the benefit of hindsight, how do you feel about the homophobic, racist, alt-right drift of the manosphere? Do you acknowledge significant overlap with fat, broke losers who feel entitled to gorgeous, slim women? I feel like you are ignoring or condoning the repulsive elements of the manosphere. IMO, the presence of these haters delegitimizes mens’ valid complaints and undermines constructive male dialogue.

    In your sentence on “fat, broke losers who feel entitled to gorgeous, slim women” you left out “small penis”, “short”, “living in parents basement / living in Mom’s basement”. These extra terms of hate will make your rant even more truthfilled in the future, so make a note.

    KL, have you stopped beating your partner? Or perhaps are you a ‘bot of some sort?
    Just asking.

  64. You left out “literally Hitler.”

    If KL isn’t a bot, I wonder if xie is wearing a pink Pussy Hat in solidarity with yesterday’s Million Vagina March?

  65. The Red Pill imagery is all about accepting a hard truth of which most people are unaware. As soon as it has the remotest legitimacy, any person with a fringe viewpoint is going to appropriate it.

    “Soon you’ll take the REAL red pill and realize that [crazy conspiracy theory]”

    Not really Rollo’s problem.

  66. I appreciate your responses. Rollo says men are just angry about being misled and exploited by hypergamy. This idea is widespread – just google “Red Pill Anger”. Many men have experienced bad behavior by low-quality women. As H.L. Mencken wrote, “A misogynist is a man who hates women as much as women hate one another.”

    Rollo’s exemplar Heartiste has gotten racist, Roosh has gotten Islamophobic, and Matt Forney has fallen out with Richard Spencer (not Hitler). They have become trolls. Their literal status as unemployed living with parents is relevant, because under the “old set of books”, they would not be considered alphas. They had no expectation of success dashed by a change in social order. They are simply angry losers. Feminists dismiss angry men as entitled misogynists. In retrospect, Rollo encouraged this stereotyping by citing guys who revealed themselves to be scapegoating haters.

  67. KL concern trolling
    I appreciate your responses. Rollo says men are just angry about being misled and exploited by hypergamy. This idea is widespread – just google “Red Pill Anger”. Many men have experienced bad behavior by low-quality women. As H.L. Mencken wrote, “A misogynist is a man who hates women as much as women hate one another.”

    Emphasis added. Obviously concern troll KL has never read

    The rest of KL’s troll is the guilt-by-association game in which we see KL hasn’t read this site at all but is merely tossing names around to try to get a reaction.

    KL, have you stopped beating your partner? Why are you afraid to answer?

  68. Scott Alexander has similar thoughts to Rollo about feminists dismissing unhappy men:
    ‘Every article about male nerds calls us “entitled”.’

    ‘feminists … were coming up with reasons to mock and despise men who were sad about not being in relationships years before the manosphere even existed.’
    ‘The worst corners of the manosphere contain … Matt Forney.’

  69. @Rollo, nice articles, no pun intended. “Ladies, stop complaining about the sheep when you’re looking for a wolf.” Exactly – women despise PUA tactics because a sheep in wolf’s clothing bypasses their hypergamic shit tests.

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