The ‘Creep’ – Part 1

What makes a guy “creepy”?

For almost every woman I polled in researching this essay what makes a guy ‘creepy’ is the inability of a guy to ‘take a hint’.

Most seemed to believe that there was some ‘obvious’ (to them) boundary that ‘creepy’ men always crossed that made them into creeps. If that sounds a lot like my principle of ‘Just Get It’ you’re not too far off. Much of this goes back to women’s innate psychological filtering for optimizing Hypergamy and women expect men to ‘just get’ everything about intersexual dynamics, both positive and negative. However, there is a fundamental difference between what men define as creepy (in a general sense) and what women ‘feel’ is creepy with regards to creepy men. I’ll go into both in this essay, but it’s important to make this distinction because for both men and women there is a peripheral awareness about other people’s behavior that sets off psychological triggers which inform us that something isn’t quite right about that person and to beware of danger.

Personally, I believe we have evolved a pretty good instinct about what makes us feel unsafe about other people. For people who have some sort of clinical neurosis sometimes all it takes is to listen to that person’s speech or watch their mannerisms. If you meet someone who is drunk, it’s pretty easy to diagnose that person’s state without having to smell their breath. We instinctively get a feeling that this person is not speaking (slurring) or behaving like a sober person would. Drunkenness is an easy illustration of this instinct, but the same goes for true forms of insanity (schizophrenia, paranoia, bipolar disorder). Unless we’re really naive or just ignoring the indicators we can tell when a person is off.

Dementia and Alzheimers are easy diagnoses too. From there though, by degrees of subtlety, we really have to hone our senses to what’s right or wrong about a person’s behavior. What’s more difficult to wrap our heads around is sussing out people who have a better capacity to hide their disorders. Autism, Asperger’s Syndrome or just acute social awkwardness is sometimes manageable and we either accept it as part of their personality or we understand it as a disorder and we (as “normies”) choose to ignore it. This is where the social conditioning of today does us a disservice to some extent.

In our feminine-primary social order of tolerance and acceptance, this innate, often peripheral or unconscious, sense of understanding that something is off about someone is something we are taught we ought to keep sublimated. We don’t want to appear “judgmental” or we’re shamed for actually heeding the messages our instincts are telling us are red flags about people. Conditions and disorders that we used to consider abnormalities in the past are things we’re expected to progressively have more and more empathy for. That isn’t to say that we ought not be sympathetic to a person’s condition, but it is to say that this expectation of acceptance reduces our capacity to listen to what our instinct is telling us about a person. We get conditioned to tuning out our natural instincts about a person who may want to harm or manipulate us.

I mentioned this hindbrain instinct in Gut Check as being one reason we tend to get jealous or possessive of our mates.

Whenever you feel something isn’t quite right in your gut, what this is is your subconscious awareness alerting you to inconsistencies going on around you. We tend to ignore these signs in the thinking that our rational mind ‘knows better’ and things really aren’t what they seem. It’s not as bad as you’re imagining, and you can even feel shame or guilt with yourself for acknowledging that lack of trust. However, it’s just this internal rationalization that keeps us blind to the obvious that our subconscious is trying to warn us about. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. Some of which can actually effect us physically.

The dynamic of Mate Guarding is also a behavioral adaptation that evolved to ensure our paternity or parental investment with a mate. Our social order today teaches us that men who feel jealousy, suspect infidelity or are prone to mate guard are by definition “insecure”. This redefining is meant to cover for women’s control of Hypergamy, in the hopes that men will self-police these instincts, but in doing so they become sublimated. So we self-convince that it’s wrong for us to heed what our hindbrain is telling us for our own preservation.

However, when it comes to women’s instincts we exaggerate their importance beyond all realistic measure. Since we prioritize women’s hindbrain perception and feeling above all else, we would never downplay their importance without risking a lot of social fallout and shame. Whereas men’s instincts are signs of ‘insecurity’, women’s instincts (feminine intuition) are raised to a metaphysical level. So when a woman says a guy “creeps her out” or is acting “creepy” we tend to misunderstand what exactly it is her hindbrain is telling her and us. There are two aspects of ‘creepy’ to women:

  • The sense of self-preservation and imminent danger that is associated with a man whom her hindbrain is telling her that there’s something not quite right about. The guy is directly communicating or subcommunicating that he may be a potential threat to her wellbeing. Her intuition is something that is exaggerated beyond all reasonable, realistic perception, but her subconscious only knows what it knows and the social conditioning kicks in to be overly cautious. This may or may not be the actual case, but women evolved to err on the side of over-cautiousness – particularly when it comes to men’s behavioral cues and perceptions of anger.
  • The sense of insult to her capacity to optimize Hypergamy with a suboptimal male makes her “creeped out”. In this sense the “creep” offends her hindbrain’s expectation of reproducing with the best genetic partner her ego believes is really her due. As you’ll see in a moment, when a physically arousing man repeats the same behavior as a less-arousing man the feeling of ‘creep’ is diminished. Much of this has a lot to do with that guy’s sense of congruency between his behavior (sub-communications) and her intuition about his authenticity, but largely the initial ‘hotness’ of one man vs. a less hot one can spell the difference between a “creep” and “awkward-but-cute”. Arousal compensates for a lot of behavioral miscues, but the point is that this sense of ‘creepiness’ is fundamentally based in a woman’s ego-sense of losing direct control of Hypergamy and her capacity to optimize it. What ‘creepy’ distills down to is a woman’s Hypergamous-level revulsion of a man believing he may be someone she would eventually have sex with. Creepy is an insult to Hypergamy.

In both these instances it’s important to consider that we’re talking about both an instinctual dynamic and how it’s been modified by our social order. The following are a few of the most common descriptions of ‘creepy’ I was able to collate for this essay:

Getting in my personal space when I don’t know/barely know you. It’s weird and uncomfortable, and if you’re bigger than me then it can feel quite intimidating.

When I worked in a bar one guy told me I was prettier than anyone else there. But he kept going on about how they weren’t attractive and had nothing to offer as far as looks go. Yeah? Some of those are my dearest friends you’re bashing.

When I make it clear I’m not interested and he keeps trying. It makes me feel uncomfortable and it puts me in a bad position cause there are only so many times you can politely turn someone down.

Over Persistence

It’s an unfortunate but totally predictable response to much of our entertainment, where the storyline involves a man “winning” an initially uninterested woman either by wooing her directly or by performing some great feat. We’ve seen this archetypal story for centuries (since the rise of courtly love). Persistence is always rewarded in Disney Blue Pill fantasies Everyone is the hero of their own story. So if you’re raised on stories like that, of course you don’t take an initial “no” as the final answer. It’s all part of the story. You’re the hero and you want her, so you’ll get her in the end.

Persistence is always a sensitive topic in the ‘sphere. Some guys will tell you that even without Indicators of Interest a woman is only a conversation away from being into you if your Game is good enough to convince her. Others will tell you to balance your efforts and play to your strengths; why bother with a dead end if other opportunities are available? In either case a guy can come off as creepy when he takes this persistence to the extreme. It’s one thing to not “take a hint” from a woman, it’s an order of degree worse when a guy persists in not taking that hint because he’s been taught he’ll be rewarded for persistence.

I have had the “attempts-at-polite-rejection” turn scary (thankfully, the worst it ever got was being slammed into a wall) enough times that as soon as someone doesn’t take “no” for an answer once, I start internally freaking out.

Persistence when a woman has rejected a guy is the top complaint of creepiness. Women expect a guy to ‘just get it’. Social retardation (I mean that in a clinical sense) and Blue Pill conditioning teach a guy to never give up, to believe in some kind of predestination or romantic soul-mate date with fate, and all he needs to do is be persistent and a woman will come to the same romantic-but-logical conclusion.

Women make the mistake of believing all guys understand when they are communicating rejection to them – they very often don’t, and for the same reason they’ve been taught to be zealously persistent. The Blue Pill makes them resistant to this. Blue Pill ‘creeps’ usually respond with either anger or self-pity when they finally realize their predestined girl not only rejects him, but she is scared of him or despises him. So the Nice Guy turns mean and vindictive, or he loses faith in his Blue Pill romanticization and gets despondent. Both are potentially volatile for the Beta.

I think a lot of well-meaning Beta “Nice Guys” come off as creepy simply because they follow a Blue Pill old-books script they believe will be reciprocated by women. Much of this creepiness is the result of their inability to do a realistic assessment of their own SMV. This is a tough bit of insight even for Red Pill aware men, but for Blue Pill guys it’s almost impossible because they are struggling against a social conditioning that constantly tells them what they do and who they are is ‘enough’ – or should be enough for any girl who’s of a quality to appreciate their unique-but-commonness.

In a way it’s a lot like today’s women’s egos being overinflated by social media and our present social narrative to the point that they believe their own SMV is, or should be, enough for any man, but especially men who are well above their own SMV. More than enough actually. So too does the ‘creep’ believe his own pathological self-impression. The problem here is that, for men,  we must be the initiators and with that comes the potential to be taken as an aggressor or harasser.

Where’s my hug?

I think one potentially bad outcome for the ‘creep’ is when he comes across something like a PUA program and watches an ‘instructor’ run through a set and then tries his damnedest to repeat the same behaviors and script with a girl he thinks he may have a chance with. When a PUA presumes familiarity with a woman he doesn’t know, and his internal game is congruent with his delivery, it comes off as authentic and it can (potentially) be endearing. But when a Beta ‘creep’, who’s trying his best to solve his creepiness problem, presumes the same behavior will endear him to a girl – and isn’t congruent, or doesn’t “get it” – he gets even more despondent (or frustrated/aggravated) when all it does is reinforce and enhance his perception of creepiness.

A common Game technique is to presume a familiarity with a woman. When PUA with Game and congruency approaches a woman and says “where’s my hug?” the effect is the polar opposite of when an incongruent Beta delivers the same line. Worse still, the guy risks not just overt rejection and creepiness perception, but he also runs the risk of having his approach considered sexual assault by order of degree. I would argue that a lot of what would otherwise be considered witty banter from a skilled PUA is creepy to women when it comes from a struggling Beta who a woman doesn’t find arousing.

This dynamic also extends to over-sexualizing a conversation with women when no context has been established between the creep and the girl.

I get creeped out by guys who immediately start talking about sexual topics in response to everything you say, every single time you are within communicating distance of each other while you two barely know each other to drop a “hint”. I had a guy that found a way (albeit poorly) to turn everything I said sexual. And whenever I called him out on it and told him to knock it off, I was being a “prude”.

Also, asking personal (sexual) questions or sharing stories of the same, especially if you’re not even casual acquaintances. I know a lot of women who want to be polite but are totally creeped out by this.

What’s fascinating about this sex-conversation creep is that, when the reverse is true, there’s no better indicator that a woman is into having sex with a you. In an upcoming essay I’ll outline our social progression towards a unilateral control of every aspect of the intersexual process by women, but for now consider that when a woman immediately presumes a sexual context in conversation it’s a solid confirmation that you’ve passed (or are passing) her Hypergamous filter. And that’s the fundamental nature of this kind of creepy guy; he presumes an acknowledged state of sexual-ness without having passed this Hypergamous determination. I’ve said in the past that women don’t decide in the first five minutes of meeting a guy if she will have sex with him, rather, she knows if she wont have sex with him.

Again, Game sometimes reinforces the idea that a guy needs to establish a sexual context with a woman from the opening, but the creep doesn’t understand the artistry and nuance that goes along with applying this. My friend, Alan Roger Currie, is a big proponent of straight up, “I wanna fuck you, are you down?” style of direct Game. While I have seen this effective with women it does promote the idea that a guy can simply presume a sexual context with any woman from the outset. And really, when a creep tries to drop ‘hints’ about sex or attempts to get personal information in a blunderingly obvious (but he thinks stealthy) way he’s not employing a direct Game – he’s beating around the bush in the hopes that he’ll pass her sex test.

When a less-than-proficient, less-than-arousing Beta adopts this direct-but-not-directness he runs the risk of being perceived as creepy, or worse, as a harasser. For a mature, socially savvy man, the obvious retort is “well, no guy should presume anything, there needs to be some kind of rapport’, but remember, we’re talking about guys who in large part Don’t Get ItThis should make for a good conversation this week. Let me know your thoughts on what you think constitutes ‘creepiness’ in the comments.

As I was researching and writing on this topic It occurred to me how deep this dynamic really is, so I’ve decided to split it into a series. In part two we’ll go into a bit more of what makes for creepiness in a Hypergamous context.  I’ll also delve into how creepiness has been developed into a feminine-operative social convention.

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mersonia
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First

Sentient
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Sentient

Ha. Guys that Don’t Get It not getting it. Yup sounds right.

j
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s u b c o m m u n i c a t i o n s > verbals

George C
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George C

I was in the library today sitting next to comely woman today and a old man came up to her and started talking to her like he knew her looking at the material shew as studying/reading and recycling it at her. Then he came at her with questions. She was polite but he was creepy because the woman was like 40-50+ years his junior. I was going to say something to her to ease the tension but I imagine women deal with uncultured men constantly so they can handle it. I work hard to no directly help women anymore…

George C
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George C

I was in the library today sitting next to comely woman today and a old man came up to her and started talking to her like he knew her looking at the material she was studying/reading and recycling it back at her. Then he came at her with questions. She was polite but he was creepy because the woman was like 40-50+ years his junior. I was going to say something to her to ease the tension but I imagine women deal with uncultured men constantly so they can handle it. I work hard to not directly help women anymore…

aletheia
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aletheia

Google ‘feminist blog friend zone’ etc. and the hamster is on full display. The overturning (I prefer whacking) of feminism will be a sight to behold. An enema need but be applied.

walawala
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walawala

Elements of creepiness: lack of calibration. That’s why the Mystery Method is so critical to understanding game and sparking female attraction.

When a woman is attracted you can get away with a lot more in terms of kino, agreeing and amplifying etc.

Ruben Gonzalez
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Ruben Gonzalez

A lot of what The Red Pill teaches is a continuation of what Christianity advocates and that is to search for the truth, wherever it leads you. Men from all walks of life look to a set of rules they can apply, like a recipe, follow steps 1-5 and you will end up with a sort of baked chicken that you can sleep and have a family with. Unfortunately, many of the same folks who start dabbling with The Red Pill never get past the self-introspection phase and go directly towards approaching women, and getting bogged down for decades with… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus

ohhhh…. I don’t know what to say. Lol.

Good stuff, again, Rollo.

christopherleonid
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christopherleonid

‘Creep’ is a mechanism of sexual zoning: In the ‘Alpha fux’ stage, the creep is the beta in waiting, in the ‘Beta bux’ stage, ‘creep’ is the Alpha she can’t get and must deride to demonstrate (to herself and others), her unwavering desire any man who’ll be a husband. Of course there are socially awkward men – but we must bear in mind that the ‘creep’ convention says as much about the person who uses it as the person to whom it is applied. Is there any such thing as a female creep?

Blaximus
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Blaximus

” Is there any such thing as a female creep?”

Absolutely.

Tom
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Tom

A creep is a Male who treats a female with too much respect. Who assumes her superiority.

This is repulsive as indicates low status.

Logic
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Logic

It saddens me that what Rollo is saying is going to be labeled as “commin sense” by many guys. This is the price that the creator of a theory has to pay once his theory is established and verified by observationand data. If you talk to your average idiot they will immediately disregard as “morons” the people that used to think that the earth was flat or that the sun revolves around the earth. And yet, before Galileo we thought that the sun revolved around the earth. It was our reality. Now, suddenly, it js “obvious”. Right, forget the countless… Read more »

Logic
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Logic

*common sense

kfg
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kfg

” . . .forget the countless hours Galileo spent studying mathematics and developing his theory . . .”

Heliocentrism wasn’t his. He championed it after the fact as obvious. That isn’t to say that your position is without merit, indeed it’s obvious, but you obviously picked a poor example.

theasdgamer
Guest

She was polite but he was creepy because the woman was like 40-50+ years his junior. Thinking that an age disparity makes a guy creepy is very unrealistic. Much younger women (~40 years) approach me frequently. —————————— When a woman is attracted you can get away with a lot more in terms of kino, agreeing and amplifying etc. True. My experience verifies this. And a woman’s words will frequently contradict her actions. For example, I ran kino within 5 min of meeting a woman who was on a date with a friend (he asked me to be there). She told… Read more »

elooie
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elooie

Red pill awaking should naturally reduce the risk of being creepy. While I was never accused of being a creep in the past I definitely realize now why I have never been accused of being a creep. Like people are already posting above, calibration and understanding women is incredibly helpful. What is interesting is while I have zero problems approaching(most of the time) i generally go a route of teasing and ZFG attitude and they end up chasing if they are interested. Thus completely negating the chance of creepiness. You learn early on in a conversation who can be teased… Read more »

Big Boss
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Big Boss

Only creepy if you’re not attractive. Get jacked, ripped, flawless skin/teeth, clean haircut, groom yourself, get nice style, maximize your height —> hit on a 2-3 girls during the day + go out 2-3 nights a week—> and now you’re banging AT LEAST 1 new hot girl/week

j
Guest

“Learning game isn’t creepy. You know what’s creepy? NOT learning game. Because you think guys without game will just NOT approach? No, they’ll still approach, but it’ll be in this creepy lame awkward uncultivated weird way.” – Tyler

rugby11
Guest

“The guy is directly communicating or subcommunicating that he may be a potential threat to her wellbeing. Her intuition is something that is exaggerated beyond all reasonable, realistic perception, but her subconscious only knows what it knows and the social conditioning kicks in to be overly cautious. This may or may not be the actual case, but women evolved to err on the side of over-cautiousness – particularly when it comes to men’s behavioral cues and perceptions of anger.” Well this is a somewhat dangerous place to be… I’ve been on both side’s of this recently. “The problem here is… Read more »

Keith
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Keith

Everything that has a beginning has a end.

rugby11
Guest

What makes a guy “creepy”? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxWTjX61_Z4 “In our feminine-primary social order of tolerance and acceptance, this innate, often peripheral or unconscious, sense of understanding that something is off about someone is something we are taught we ought to keep sublimated. We don’t want to appear “judgmental” or we’re shamed for actually heeding the messages our instincts are telling us are red flags about people. Conditions and disorders that we used to consider abnormalities in the past are things we’re expected to progressively have more and more empathy for. That isn’t to say that we ought not be sympathetic to a… Read more »

RFish
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RFish

This is something I was always watching myself for. I’ll fully admit I was awkward when I was young but changed deastically when I was in high school and learned being cool is about two things: mystery, and perceived status. It paid off in college because a ZFG attitude provided both of those things and I had girls approaching me regularly to ask about whatever thing I was peacocking (usually a huge irish cableknit sweater), but I digress. I feel that a creep doesn’t really have anything different than a game-aware male besides a severe deficit of mystery and perceived… Read more »

rugby11
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mystery, and perceived status “The creep is hungry, starving even, for validation, and thus lays his cards on the table in an attempt to impress. This has the opposite effect in the female psyche as she’s repulsed that he 1) assumed intimate interest keyword(not attraction)) and 2) approached her with such a gross display of low status. Assuming attraction boosts your perceived SMV (other’s perception) through confidence and the like, but attraction isn’t the whole picture for women. ” Loving her for who she is and not who you want her to be… https://archive.org/details/pdfy-vXiSrVKID8X2y4pD “Assuming THAT too early on usually… Read more »

O.B.I.T.
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O.B.I.T.

Persistence is the crucial issue here — even in normal interpersonal relations — and will continue to grow more so as the current harassment hysteria spreads. Remember how one of the items on Nicole’s List was basically “If she says no just go away.” And yet many initial rejections are just a test or a tease — many of us would not be here if our dads had taken that first no for an answer. So “creepy” now pretty much means she wants to tune you out but you won’t go away. She has decided in those five seconds that… Read more »

aletheia
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aletheia

No, there aren’t female creeps. There are females who don’t understand boundaries in the analogous situations but men do not regard this as burdensome or unsettling. Generosity/magnanimity (in particular of the profound and elevated kind) are much more male traits. You could say there are female creeps, sure, but there’s no analogous male conception of the matter to that of the females. We’re not wired that way.

IRL
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IRL

Oh…

Blaximus
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Blaximus

” No, there aren’t female creeps. There are females who don’t understand boundaries in the analogous situations but men do not regard this as burdensome or unsettling. Generosity/magnanimity (in particular of the profound and elevated kind) are much more male traits. You could say there are female creeps, sure, but there’s no analogous male conception of the matter to that of the females. We’re not wired that way.”

100% disagree.

stuffinbox
Guest

“No, there aren’t female creeps. There are females who don’t understand boundaries in the analogous situations but men do not regard this as burdensome or unsettling. Generosity/magnanimity (in particular of the profound and elevated kind) are much more male traits. You could say there are female creeps, sure, but there’s no analogous male conception of the matter to that of the females. We’re not wired that way.” Shure there are,with the advent of open hypergamy, feminine primary social order and a high percentage of blue pill males. If a man is a good looking alpha, he will be socialy isolated… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

It’s not so much about women’s wiring wrt creep female behavior, nor is it about what men ” regard “.

There’s lots of stuff guys can’t conceive of. Doesn’t mean things aren’t real because a guy can’t conceive of it.

Thanks.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

@ stuff

This is why I bristle at the very common notion that no man will deny himself a shot at random pussy. That shit’s stupid and insulting.

Women are very fond of saying these type of things. Many times it comes from a woman that you wouldn’t fuck with a stolen dick.

stuffinbox
Guest

“No, there aren’t female creeps”

I was up on a ladder cleaning windows when the bosses lesbian friend walked in and grabbed my cock and balls griped them firmly and said I guess you do have a pair. She held on to long waiting to see what would happen I guess. Fn ugly bitch.

stuffinbox
Guest

@Blax

Random pussy was fun till it wasn’t, “Insulting” like as if that bleeding puss rip thats too close to a shithole to be clean without extra effort, but I digress.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

The core of creepiness is not your subcommunication as much as it is your inability to read HER subcommunications. This is why a PUA can calibrate and you cannot. Or a Natural.

This is why you can copy RSDs content and manner and still fail where they succeed. They can read her subcomms in real time and adjust. Adjustment is microGame…

Game is a verbal amd physical language.

stuffinbox
Guest

Just sayin there has to be something else there to make it desirable.

Tom Murray
Guest

Neediness is at the core of creepiness.

O.B.I.T.
Guest
O.B.I.T.

By the way, by “normal interpersonal relations” I mean actions that can occur naturally and organically between two people without being twisted by wider social pressures — many of them generated by the FI’s grip on today’s culture.

stuffinbox
Guest

“Neediness is at the core of creepiness.”

Good call,lets not disregard entitlement.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

You can be considered creepy if she just gets nervous for some reason by you being around her. If for whatever reason you are approaching to where she is, and you have no intent of engaging with her (such as leaving a sweatshirt somewhere, and you’re coming over to get it and she happens to have sat down at the same spot), her ego will make her assume you’re coming over because she’s there. So whether it’s due to being unattractive, different race, if she feels like “I hope none of these guys try and talk to me” you can… Read more »

J.R.
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J.R.

I’m fascinated by the argument Rollo makes in this essay. I’ve been thinking about the 80/20 rule applied to SMV a lot in this age of social media; especially the Instagram/Tinder platform. Based on gauging the dating market in the USA closing out 2017, I would argue that if things continue down this path of women ‘gaining unilateral control of every aspect of the intersexual process’, the next phase will be legalized polygamy. If the majority of the women are LITERALLY competing for only 20% of the male population today, one can speculate that with AI automation moving rapidly, this… Read more »

rugby11
Guest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsxaoXHe9Xc
“By the way, by “normal interpersonal relations” I mean actions that can occur naturally and organically between two people without being twisted by wider social pressures — many of them generated by the FI’s grip on today’s culture.”

“It will be women that sexually disenfranchise the majority of men moving forward and lock them out of any long term ability to procreate within the USA. Ironically, this is a reversion to a more ‘primitive’ time because in the past, only a small population of men have successfully procreated; why else can 1 healthy male re-generate a nation with millions of women?”

Tarl
Guest

I was in the library today sitting next to comely woman today and a old man came up to her and started talking to her like he knew her looking at the material she was studying/reading and recycling it back at her. Then he came at her with questions.

Heh, I think he must have read Day Bang.

Tarl
Guest

Is there any such thing as a female creep?

If you’ve ever had a fatty come on to you, and ignore your displays of indifference, that’s pretty damn creepy.

TheGhostOfSteveMcQueen
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TheGhostOfSteveMcQueen

Really looking forward to part two.

daysofgame.com
Guest

>> The sense of insult to her capacity to optimize Hypergamy with a suboptimal male makes her “creeped out”. In this sense the “creep” offends her hindbrain’s expectation of reproducing with the best genetic partner her ego believes is really her due. This ^ is good definition of creepy… but could also be “pathetic.” The best definition I’ve seen is “wanting something and not doing anything about it.” This is the guy that “gets tight” and then “projects” his want about a girl he’s into. That’s the no-agency, needy-creepy. The “lurker” creep. The “tight jawed stare.” I get a lot… Read more »

rugby11
Guest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WDXStamk9A&feature=push-u&attr_tag=gWSZuUzOt7amTuPD-6

“The best definition I’ve seen is “wanting something and not doing anything about it.” This is the guy that “gets tight” and then “projects” his want about a girl he’s into. That’s the no-agency, needy-creepy. The “lurker” creep. The “tight jawed stare.””

daysofgame.com
Guest

>> My friend, Alan Roger Currie, is a big proponent of straight up, “I wanna fuck you, are you down?” style of direct Game. While I have seen this effective with women it does promote the idea that a guy can simply presume a sexual context with any woman from the outset Good reference to Currie. Mooooooode onnne. Currie is different as he is direct, bold, full agency. It’s not a hint. That’s a lot of his power. He is “doing something,” not lurking in desire. That game mostly doesn’t work well, as it’s too much. Currie is awesome (I… Read more »

O.B.I.T.
Guest
O.B.I.T.

Creepy, adj. Your stubborn reluctance to remove your bottom-80 percent existence from my otherwise pristine field of vision

“Creepy” used to be reserved for the hint of truly skeevy behavior like subway frottage or teachers messing with underage students. For women it’s now become more of a thousand-and-one-uses Swiss Army Knife term like “harassment.” And they don’t even have to say it, just think it.

Ironsides
Guest
Ironsides

It’s rather surprising that our species manages to reproduce itself. Women are programmed to be coy and elusive at first; but failing to immediately depart when they don’t respond with immediate enthusiasm is creepy?

That’s an insoluble contradiction. Pretty much the only women who will say “yes” right away are literal hookers.

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

If you guys want a good celebrity example of what a female creep looks and acts like, check out this woman called Kristen Schaal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvTqBkX7K90

“Wow you remember everything!” is a great neg btw.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

aletheia No, there aren’t female creeps. Disagree based on personal experience. There are females who don’t understand boundaries in the analogous situations but men do not regard this as burdensome or unsettling. Cluster B’s are odd, and NPD’s can be very creepy. Just picking an example, there are others. Generosity/magnanimity (in particular of the profound and elevated kind) are much more male traits. Well, ok, so what? You could say there are female creeps, sure, but there’s no analogous male conception of the matter to that of the females. We’re not wired that way. Yeah, well, ok no. Men don’t… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Back to the OP: lack of calibration, lack of situational awareness, lack of social skills [*], lack of ability to read people all can lead to a man being assesed as “creepy”. Never mind that the term properly applies to the sort of damaged man who tries to cop feels on public transit / at the SRO concert / in a class room. Doesn’t matter, as “creepy” is subjective. The problem is that young men are on the one hand beaten over the head with their inherent “badness” due to testosterone poisoning and on the other hand trained to treat… Read more »

J.R.
Guest
J.R.

Alan Roger Currie has offered some great red pill game via the Mode One method. However, I would argue that Mode One for the Beta male could lead to sexual misconduct charges in this day an age. ARC is a baby boomer/Generation X cusper; I believe mode One was written in the mid-90s; the Golden Age of Day and Night game pre-ubiquitous Internet Age (the original PUAs). In 2017, it can be fairly dangerous for the non-select man to step to women saying “I want to fuck you” without building rapport and reading a woman’s body language; a skill set… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Women who are creepy…

…ugly women who come onto you

…women who stalk/follow you

…women (even attractive ones) you don’t know who violate your boundaries

Men who have no boundaries are just too thirsty for sex. Recently, a strange woman did a grabass on me. When I discussed this with bouncers at a another bar, they said that they wouldn’t take action but would high five me. However, they would kick a man out who did this to a woman. This strikes me as thirsty and lacking boundaries.

freebird
Guest
freebird

The difference is the enforcement by white knights for women.
It’s just too easy to cry wolf and get a nuclear response.
During the Stalin purges people learned not to speak to each other at all.
Thanks friend of the cunt court system.
Making society less civil by the second.
I sure am.

Kingdom
Guest
Kingdom

Communicating in any form to the woman that you are ashamed of your sexuality is creepyness.
The person doing is this act is creepy.

SJB
Guest
SJB

@Rollo: again the excellent header art: “male chauvinist pigs” with a hint of Animal Farm. A dark image to start a dark subject.

Regarding:

I would argue that a lot of what would otherwise be considered witty banter from a skilled PUA is creepy to women when it comes from a struggling Beta who a woman doesn’t find arousing.

Well put; words and posture are easy via mimicry. What the Beta misses is the flow assessment of IOIs and IODs which guide the PUA’s words and posture. In a word, as another commenter noted, calibration.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“It’s rather surprising that our species manages to reproduce itself.”

Large apex predators require large territories to support even a small clan. The mating structures and reproductive systems of apex predators are all tuned for producing small numbers of apex offspring.

We’re not supposed to fuck like rabbits. It’s supposed to be hard and highly competitive to prevent overpopulation from leading to a catastrophic collapse, or offspring being too pathetic to survive.

rugby11
Guest

J.R.
“So Mode One is really most helpful to the Sigma or potential Alpha who operates in Mode 2, because the True Alpha is already in Mode One naturally or from life experiences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03bDIB_xf0I

The true Alpha or even the introverted Sigma/Alpha is pretty much exempt from the creep designation; it is the lower hierarchy of males that are in the tank.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-oHt-h-Ztg

Id see myself here

freebird
“The difference is the enforcement by white knights for women.
It’s just too easy to cry wolf and get a nuclear response.”

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Debbie Wesson Gibson says that she was 17 in the spring of 1981 when Moore spoke to her Etowah High School civics class about serving as the assistant district attorney. She says that when he asked her out, she asked her mother what she would say if she wanted to date a 34-year-old man. Gibson says her mother asked her who the man was, and when Gibson said “Roy Moore,” her mother said, “I’d say you were the luckiest girl in the world.””

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

kfg Lot of red pill gold in that Moore article… https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.1e725db62047 which of course is not behind their paywall… Aside from Corfman, three other women interviewed by The Washington Post in recent weeks say Moore pursued them when they were between the ages of 16 and 18 and he was in his early 30s, episodes they say they found flattering at the time, but troubling as they got older. And he often walked, usually alone, around the newly opened Gadsden Mall — 6 feet tall and well-dressed in slacks and a button-down shirt, say several women who worked there at… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient

I get creeped out by guys who immediately start talking about sexual topics in response to everything you say, every single time you are within communicating distance of each other while you two barely know each other… I had a guy that found a way to turn everything I said sexual. Common features of FR’s. “Oh my god!!! You turn everything I say sexual… I’m afraid to open my mouth”… giggle giggle giggle…” The other day a woman to two others “you see what I mean!!!! You see what he does!!! giggle giggle giggle”… Balazs – https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/style/andre-balazs-accused-of-groping-standard-chateau-marmont.html Sarah said they… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw-TUJTlTmo

“You can’t even rape well!”

Ruben Gonzalez
Guest
Ruben Gonzalez

For those seeking examples on what creep looks like, look no further than the following video:

https://youtu.be/FMaFDyyYfng

scribblerg
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scribblerg

Being called a “creep” is just a shit test. It’s become a meme because so many men fail them. It’s even harder as you get older cuz some guys internalize thinking they are being creepy. Lol. I just demonstrated flirtiness to a millennial guy who works for me while at a Starbucks. Noticed a group of three girls dressed in hospital looking outfits, made some comment, smiled my smirk, had the right posture and even though I was wrong – they were “aestheticians” in some retail store, they all giggled and smiled. But initially there was a second of that… Read more »

TuffLuv
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TuffLuv

German engineering = beta .. Ford pickup ftw 😉

TuffLuv
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TuffLuv

There’s a difference imo in a guy who repetitively finds himself as an accused creep (the guy who needs to reassess), and an ambitious approacher who finds himself cast that way at times, and it’s usually in the delivery. Just like any rejection, taking it in stride and how you react can at least save face. I can always see it right there in her expression when I’ve botched it.. at that point I usually shift to a brotherly approach, or make a slight self-deprecation with a laugh (a little agree and amplify) and a comment about how I’m gonna… Read more »

SJB
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SJB

Paglia is a trip. Good find on your part, rugby11, as she references the link between male sexuality and hunting. Precisely the connection I made while reading Rollo’s paragraph on persistence. It is easy to let urgency overcome prudence and thus spook (creep out) the field. Persistent patience, reading sign, and blending makes for a good field day.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Gangster? Really?

Never.

Lol. A simp with a good job is still just a simp.

mersonia
Guest

comment image

theasdgamer
Guest

How not to be a creep…

1. go out to have fun and entertain yourself and bring the party to others…flirt a lot

2. calibrate the girl’s reactions and back off as needed, while maintaining your frame

3. calibrate the reactions of the girls friends

4. game the girl’s friends

redlight
Guest
redlight

with the current environment this SNL skit is disappearing from the net:

https://www.snotr.com/video/3896/It_pays_to_look_good

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

“YES! He’s tried approaching me like four times, twice in Thompson. The first time he approached me, he just came straight up to me, kissed me on my hand (he kind of just yanked my hand up, because he took me by surprise), and tried to stroke my hair. I was like WTF?! Second time he tried to approach me in Thompson like we were supposed to be friends or something and I’m like nope Nope NOPE! I had to literally push past him, as I was leaving the downstairs bathroom and he confronted me in the hallway. I was… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient

“Holy shit, I can’t believe what I am reading. I am a freshman at OSU and my encounter with this guy was the first humiliating thing that has happened to me and actually made me fear for my life a little bit. I have no experience with being picked up or flirted with. I was walking back to my dorm in the middle of the day the first week of school, when he comes up and asks where BDubs is, says he transferred from UCLA, and that I look like an “LA girl” with my hair. He pulls out his… Read more »

ECM
Guest

As you pointed out, Rollo, women tend to view SMV values of males as lower than they objectively are. Like… a 5 (average male) would be viewed as a 3, and then her sensibilities will be insulted because ‘why is a 3 trying to hit on me?’ It makes her feel insecure because it makes her question her own SMV. ‘Am I not totally out of his league?’ And she’s offended that he doesn’t think so. Calling him a creep is really her lashing out against that. Not to mention, when these average to below average males flirt, it’s usually… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Sentient (Roy Moore 1970’s story) Ex post facto backward rationalization of the crone… Not even sure it is rationalization. Women tend to rewrite their own personal history. If this woman in her 50’s is a mother, what was exciting at age 16 now looks “troubling” because while it was OK when she did it, it’s not OK for her daughter. Have seen this in my own family / social circle. Always entertaining when some aging hippie with an N north of 30 decides to lay down the law to a younger female relation. Not to mention that the 1970’s were… Read more »

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)
Guest
Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)

I am embarking on a mini-crusade to push back where I can on the correct meanings of the overheated and overused words “chauvinism” and “misogyny”. Oddly, all this panty-twisting about endemic Beta creepiness presents a unique opportunity to reclaim the correct definitions of these terms. “Chauvinism” – named after a loyal-suckup-toady officer in Napoleon’s army – is blind obedience and super-allegiance to a superior or to a state. Deep-fried patriotism, if you like. Nothing the superior does is wrong, and there is just obedience uber Alles. So-called male chauvinists as that term is used in modern parlance do not fit… Read more »

Playdontpay
Guest
Playdontpay

Calibration to avoid being labelled as “creepy” is only possible after your approach. It’s impossible to calibrate your SMV in relation to your target as it’s not possible to be sure of her TYPE. I do very badly with women who’s type is the metrosexual pretty boy hipster look, if she’s looking for a ken doll to dress and accessorise to show off to her friends I’m just not going to appeal to her. I do very well with women who like big rugged masculine looking men and can date above my Generalised SMV with this group as I’m their… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

The subject of creepiness came up when I was getting to know my now-20yo live-in gf. She was 19 at the time. My response? ‘I’m not a creep I’m a pervert!”. Got a big laugh out of that. Once I showed her just how perverted I was then everything was fine.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“All I’ll say about Roy Moore is the story wouldn’t be so galling if he wasn’t so sanctimoniously galling himself . . .”

I don’t like Roy Moore, and he wouldn’t like me, but I can separate my dislike from the logical situation.

And the clip I posted was about the mother, not Moore.

“Is a 34 year old guy hitting on my 17 year old daughter creepy? How the hell should I know? You haven’t told me who he is yet.”

Sentient
Guest
Sentient
kfg
Guest
kfg

“My response? ‘I’m not a creep I’m a pervert!””

No sugar britches, you’ve got it all wrong. I’d be a pervert if I didn’t hit on you.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU0CRs4j7Nw

Same campus (OSU) even smaller microcosm… local grocery store (that people go to over and over and over). Very different approach and outcome. No mobs with torches… No upside down glasses… lol

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxiWVD287tI

Another day, same store… Basic, normal bro who understands some game. Socially calibrated… looks boring, but works.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Social miscalibration…

I want to address the stories told to The New York Times by five women named Abby, Rebecca, Dana, Julia who felt able to name themselves and one who did not.

These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was O.K. because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. – Louis C.K.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/louis-ck-statement.html

Jynxi
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Jynxi

I think women use the term “creepy” way to liberally today. In my experience it’s often the projection of their own insecurities and short comings on to the men they deem as easy targets. That’s not to say that there are no creepsters out there, but I do believe the majority of these accusations are grossly exaggerated. There was a time I had a party where I invited some friends from work along with other friendly acquaintances. There was one over-weight shrewish loudmouth woman who proceeded to badmouth one of my work-friends to the other guest. The guy, she was… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Fred Flange I am embarking on a mini-crusade to push back where I can on the correct meanings of the overheated and overused words “chauvinism” and “misogyny”. Good luck on that. You’ll need a sidekick named “Sancho” to do this the right way. Might be a good idea to learn some Spanish, too. All I’ll say about Roy Moore … Followed by multiple paragraphs of stuff. Ok. Let’s call rewrite: “Dear Penthouse Forum: I am a conservative Christian Republican woman of 53 years living in North Carolina, but when I was 14 I had a wild side…” Yeah, that’s credible.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Say, maybe this “Sean Larson” at OSU is really a fugitive: Haven Monahan, on the run in disguse. Rolling Stone should send some intrepid girl reporters to OSU right away.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqktShf-K2Q

James on “hyper self awareness”

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

The dude Sean Larson… I don’t think I’d classify him as a ” creep “, but he is strange imo. Oddly uncalibrated and fake. Plus he looks like he needs a nap or something. But knowing what I know about younger women, I can definitely see why some of them would be creeped out by his mannerisms. He’s tryng to be cool, relaxed and nonchalant, but he comes off as ” try hard ” while trying not to look that way. Plus, he doesn’t get how kino with girls you don’t know is supposed to work. But many women like… Read more »

Cycle
Guest
Cycle

Daily beach runner here who regularly ignores IOI’s from low-SMV female creeps and hypergamous wives/GF’s shit testing their companions. Of course, I also ignore the RBF majority. But I do respond with a ‘good morning’, ‘hi’, or just a wave to the rarer – a couple times a week – solo HMV’s IOI. I never stop to talk, but if I see them again and they indicate they recognize me I ask their name and use it when greeting them in the future. Works for confidence and soft dread. Despite being married for 40 years I have zero interest in… Read more »

J.R.
Guest
J.R.

@Rollo I love the fact that Alan Currie is honest about the status of gammas and omega types being stuck in a Mode 4 behavior pattern; which is their right, but until prostitution is legalized in America I don’t see any positive benefits of Mode 4 behavior, but that’s me. Still, I disagree about the ‘indirect game’ being a waste of time in general dating, pursuit of LTR exempted. I’ve read the Art of Seduction by Robert Greene; and seduction literally means ‘to lead astray’. I’m of the frame of mind that many women want to be seduced; and enjoy… Read more »

constrainedlocus
Guest

“Autism, Asperger’s Syndrome or just acute social awkwardness is sometimes manageable and we either accept it as part of their personality or we understand it as a disorder and we (as “normies”) choose to ignore it. This is where the social conditioning of today does us a disservice to some extent. In our feminine-primary social order of tolerance and acceptance, this innate, often peripheral or unconscious, sense of understanding that something is off about someone is something we are taught we ought to keep sublimated. We don’t want to appear “judgmental” or we’re shamed for actually heeding the messages our… Read more »

cheupez
Guest

On the manosphere I see a lot of situations where we have to look at one or other negative highlight of some aspect of femaleness. But on being creeped out, I think us men carry the trophy home; and solipsistically shamelessly too, for that matter. So as creepiness is a function of SMV (the less the SMV, the creepier)…I mean just look at those pigs up there, can you imagine anyone getting sexual with it…in all honesty?, thanks Rollo your images are great!; we as men must admit we are guilty of this just as much as women are. There… Read more »

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