What I’m about to detail here will be a revolutionary act; I’m going to give men some prescriptive advice on how I believe they should go about raising their children from a Red Pill perspective. As most of my readers know I do my best to provide observations and connect dots, from there I expect men (and women) to form their own takes on what I’m seeing and either challenge those observations or develop some actionable practice that best suits their own circumstances.
I’ll be breaking that protocol here, but the premise still applies; what I think might be universally applicable to raising and mentoring the next generation may need to be modified for what your experience and circumstances dictate.
That said, the very idea that I would inform or instruct men (and by association women) on how I think a healthier, more durable generation of men might be developed in a Red Pill awareness is tantamount to being a hate crime today. My suggesting that boys and girls would benefit greatly from a Red Pill aware father is a frightening, seditionary act in a feminine-primary social order.
As things stand on a societal level now, just the mention of Red Pill truths in casual conversation will engender either ridicule or hostility. As Red Pill awareness spreads it will be considered subversive, particularly in a social order founded on the Feminine Imperative and feminine-primary social prioritization.
I don’t have too much positive to say about Roosh these days, but one thing I had to agree with was his recent assessment of how it’s necessary for men to meet in secret gatherings and maintain (as best as possible) a state of constant anonymity if they wish to discuss anything counter to feminine-primary social doctrine. Main stream media in feminine-primary society will characterize this need for anonymity as indicative of cowardice or a lack of conviction; bitter men just contenting themselves in their private anger and poisoning the minds of whomever will listen to them.
They need this characterization for now because men have something to lose. They fear having their bread taken away from them – the same bread that feminine-primary society expects men to provide the very women who would use it to extort a desired complacency from men. Cowardice is rooted in the fear of having something to lose. Once men become largely indifferent to that bread being forthcoming, that’s either when they snap, or that’s when they start a revolution.
ScribblerG (a.k.a. Glenn) had a good reminder for men in the last thread:
Being a dad isn’t all that great in many ways these days. At best it’s mostly thankless, but for most men they are fathering into a culture that denigrates them, laughs at them and is hagiographic of motherhood. If you think this won’t effect how your children see you as a father, you are fucking kidding yourself.
I used to ride the train back and forth to the city – leaving my home at 6:30 in the morning and returning at 7:30 or later, wondering if my daughter would ever realize all I sacrificed to provide for her and her mom? I’d wonder if she’d ever get that I sacrificed being as close to her as her mother is to her for her wellbeing? That her closeness with her mom as a result of having a stay at home mom until she was 5 was a consequence of my efforts, not her Mom’s?
Guess what – nobody wants to hear it. Nobody gives a shit what sacrifices you make to be a good father and provider – it’s all about Mom. It’s all about the kids. Dad’s are at best seen as second best Moms most of the time. And even when we are “in charge”, we can be dismissed as superfluous in myriad ways.
Many men adapt by becoming second mothers and wives in the household – and the entire culture encourages this. Try being a traditional male at parent teacher night or at the pre-school or even the Boy Scout troop…Fatherhood and a family is not what it once was either. Trust me, learn from my experience. Your kids will very likely not appreciate all you’ve done for them.
Of course, I excuse all the fundo-christian-demi-god-uber-alpha-ripped-11 inch cock-men of steel™ here from this commentary. For you guys, it’s 1956 and your life is like Wally and the Beav…
Just like men subscribe to two sets of books – old and new social rule sets that contradict the other – I think our ideas of marriage fall into this same contradiction. When marriage was a social contract and not so much a legal one involving the state, the old set of books applied well to that institution. This old set of rules about marriage and what men could expect from that largely socially-enforced institution worked well and in a complementary paradigm. From the Little House on the Prairie days up to the post-war era, the first set of books worked well with regard to marriage and fatherhood.
After the sexual revolution, the second set of books took social preeminence. Optimizing Hypergamy and all of the social and legal paradigms that make it the foundation of our present social order took priority. Yet, both men and women still cling to the old order, the first set of rules when it comes to a man’s role as a husband and a father, and simultaneously expect him to adopt and promote the feminine-primary interests of the new feminine-primary order.
Fathers are expected to follow the edicts of conventional masculinity with regards to their provisioning for a family, but are also expected to adopt, embrace and internalize their popularized role of being superfluous, ridiculous or even angry and abusively resistant to the second set of rules.
In other words, the expectation is that he should be happy in his sacrificial role of provider, happy in his lack of appreciation for it or his presence, and happy to have the ‘village’ of society raise his children into the next crop of confused, frustrated adults while he’s doing it. He should be happy in his presence being devalued, but be held responsible for his lack of presence that his sacrifices demands.
Oh, and he should also feel a sense of smug pride when he see another man being pilloried for the same lack of his superfluous presence in his family’s life.
Raising Kids
I’m sure all of this sounds like a bridge too far for most men. Yes, the prospect of becoming a father is depressing, and I can see how these truths would make the average man despondent about becoming a new parent. However, I feel it’s incumbent upon me that I’m honest with men about what they’re up against before I advocate how to be a Red Pill aware father.
You will never be appreciated for your sacrifices, and certainly not while you’re making them. Your presence is only as superfluous as you allow it to be. While you will never be appreciated for it in any measurable sense, you will be liable for it, so my advice is to make the most of it in a Red Pill respect. Your reward, your motivation, for being a Red Pill parent and a positively masculine example in your kids’ lives needs to come from inside yourself because it will never be rewarded by a feminine-primary social order. If you don’t think you will ever find being a parent intrinsically rewarding, get a vasectomy now because it will never be extrinsically rewarding.
Understand now, the Feminine Imperative wants you to be despondent about your role.
Understand this, your presence, your influence, will only be as valuable or as appreciated as you are willing to make it to yourself. Your Red Pill aware influence in your kids’ lives needs to matter to you first, because it will never be appreciated in your time, and in fact will be actively, hostilely, be resisted by a world saturated in feminine-primacy.
Being a mother and birthing a child is a constantly lauded position today. By virtue of being a mother, women are rewarded and respected in society. Men must add fatherhood to their burden of performance just to avoid the societal default of being vilified.
The Feminine Imperative wants you to give up and allow the ‘village’ to raise your sons and daughters to perpetuate the cycle of the second set of rules. It wants you to feel superfluous; the Feminine Imperative’s maintenance relies on you feeling worthless. The reason men commit suicide at four times the rate of women is due exactly to this sense of male-worthlessness cultivated by the Feminine Imperative.
In Preventive Medicine I detail part of our present feminine-primary conditioning and how the imperative raises boys to be Betas and girls to be caricatures of Strong Independent Women®. Part of this was based on the essay Teach Your Children Well and the early ages at which this begins. The first, most primary truth you need to accept as a father is that if you don’t teach your children Red Pill truths there is an entire western(izing) world that is already established to raise them in your absence.
‘The Village’ will raise your kids if you don’t. You will be resisted, you will be ridiculed, you will be accused of every thought-crime to the point of being dragged away to jail in your imparting Red Pill awareness (in the future I expect it to be equated with child abuse). The Village will teach your boys from the most impressionable ages (5 years old) to loath their maleness, to feel shame for being less perfect than girls and to want to remake their gender-identity more like girls.
The Village will raise your daughters to perpetuate the same cycle that devalues conventional masculinity, the same cycle that considers men’s presence as superfluous and their sacrifices as granted expectations. It will raise your daughters to over-inflate their sense of worth with unearned confidence at the expense of boys as their foils. It will teach them to openly embrace Hypergamy as their highest authority and to disrespect anything resembling masculinity as more than some silly anachronism.
The good news is that for all of these efforts in social engineering, the Feminine Imperative is still confounded by basic biology and the psychological firmware evolved into us over millennia. That basic root reality is your greatest advantage as a father.
Raising Boys
I’m often asked when I believe would be the best time to introduce a boy to the Red Pill. A lot of guys with teenage sons want to hand them a copy of The Rational Male before they hit 18, or maybe when they’re 15, some even say 12 is really a good time. While it’s flattering for me to hear men tell me how they gave their teenage sons a copy of my book, I have to think that this is too late.
I’ve been a father to a teenage daughter for a while now and in my 20’s I was a mentor (big brother figure) to a young man I watched grow from a 10 year old boy to a 30’s man today. One thing I’ve learned from dealing with kids as I have is that the Feminine Imperative conditions children from the moment they can understand what’s playing on a TV or in a movie. By the time that kid is 10 they already have the ideological conditioning that came from a decade of meme’s and messaging taught to them by schools, Disney, Nickelodeon, popular music, feminine-primary parenting from their friends parents, even your own extended family members.
By the time that kid is 10 they’ve already internalized the stereotypes and social conditioning of the Blue Pill and they will start parroting these memes and behaving and believing in accordance with that conditioning. By the time they are in their tweens and beginning to socially interact with the opposite sex, the Blue Pill feminine-primary conditioning will be evident to any man with a Red Pill lens to hear and see it. That Blue Pill internalized ideology will seem natural and logical to them even though they couldn’t tell you how they came to their formative beliefs.
The time to start exemplifying Red Pill awareness in a parental capacity is before you even have kids. As I detailed in the first of these posts, an internalized Game that results from strong Red Pill awareness and a positive, dominant Frame control are imperative before you even consider monogamy. That Frame becomes the foundation for your parenting when your children come along.
I realize this isn’t exactly helpful for men who came to Red Pill awareness after their kids were in their teens, but it needs to be addressed for men considering becoming a father. Ideally you want to impart that same Red Pill awareness during a boy’s formative years. Children completely lack the capacity for abstract thought until their brains fully form and they learn to develop it. The age of 5 is the time when kids are most impressionable and learn the most, but they do so by watching behavior. So it’s imperative for a Red Pill father to demonstrate positive, conventional masculinity during these years.
Include your son in male-space, where only men are allowed to participate. Even if all he does is sit and play, it’s important for him to understand male tribalism. Eventually, as he gets older, he’ll feel more a part of that collective. In a feminine-primary world that is bent on his devaluation as a male human it’s important for him to feel valued in male-space and to institute his own male-space as he gets older.
Within this male-space your son needs to learn about his eventual burden of performance.I’d also advise you institute some kind of rite of passage for him from being a boy to being a man. There needs to be a delineation point at which his manhood is marked. This is important because it not only teaches him to value his masculinity, but also to accept the responsibilities of his burden of performance.
Most Beta men are uncomfortable even calling themselves ‘men’, so the earlier a kid understands this the better he is in accepting his manhood. The Feminine Imperative is all too ready to teach him his masculinity is a mask he wears; something he puts on and not the ‘real’ him. He needs to proudly reject this notion that his masculinity is a show.
He needs to learn that men and women are different and only deserving of earned respect, not a default respect granted to the female sex. Eventually he needs to learn to accept his own dominance and mastery in a world that will tell him his sex is a scourge on society.
Your presence in his life is an absolute necessity if you are to thwart the efforts of fem-centrism. I was asked about Red Pill fathering in my last Christian McQueen interview and my first inclination was to say do things with your son. Even if that’s playing chess, being the man, his model for masculinity is vitally important and to impart this to him you need to have a mutual purpose. As I’ve written before, women talk, men do. Men get together socially with a purpose, an action, a hobby, a sport, a creative endeavor, etc. and then they communicate while working towards that purpose.
Your son must learn this from a very early age, particularly when he’s likely to be forced into feminine-primary social structures and conditioned to communicate like girls do in school as well as in popular media. One of the tragedies of our age is a generation of Blue Pill men raising their sons to adopt feminine-primary communication preferences because they themselves had no experience with conventional masculinity. They can’t teach what they don’t understand.
Demonstrate, do not explicate is true of dealing with women, but it is also an imperative of Red Pill parenting. Your son (and daughter) needs to see his mother’s deference to your dominant Frame and beneficent authority. He needs to understand on a rudimentary level that his mother responds to your positively masculine Frame. Again this is imperative since your kids will see a much different narrative being displayed in popular culture and their schooling.
Show him how a man presents himself, how a man reacts to a threat, how a man commands a dog, how a man interacts with, and helps, other men he values. Do not think that you’ll start teaching him Red Pill awareness when he’s old enough to understand it. By then it’s too late, he’s resistant to it and thinks his Beta Game is more appropriate. Your son will follow your lead, but that must start from day one, not age 12. I have a good friend now who’s 16 year old son is literally following the same path his Beta father; he’s moved in with his estranged ex wife because he was closer to his ONEitis girlfriend. Now she’s bailed on him and he’s stuck with his neurotic mother.
The consequences of a Blue Pill conditioned mindset also start early. I’ve seen 10 year old boys despondent over not having a girlfriend. I’ve counseled a girl who’s former teenage boyfriend stabbed and killed her new boyfriend 32 times because she was his ONE. They get ONEitis because they are taught to be predisposed to it.
As your son moves into his teenage years that connection you began in his formative years should strengthen. You can begin to introduce him to Red Pill awareness, but in all likelihood you’ll notice him using his own Red Pill lens when it comes to dealing with girls. His grasping the fundaments of women’s dualistic sexual strategy, Hypergamy and how this will be used against him in the future is something imperative that he learns later.
This is the time to reinforce that Red Pill sensitivity and capitalize on his own awareness by introducing him to Red Pill ideas he wasn’t aware of. Bluntly, overtly declaring Red Pill truths might make sense to you, but plucking out bits of his own Red Pill observations and expanding on them in his teen years will probably be received better and more naturally.
One thing I know about teenage boys and girls is that if you try to tell them something profound they roll their eyes and blow you off, but if you wait for the right moment to let them come to that thing you want them to learn on their own then they’re receptive to it. Your demonstrating Red Pill awareness doesn’t stop when they’re teens.
Raising Girls
Much of what I’ve outlined for raising boys would cross over into raising a daughter, however there are some differences in approach. Exemplifying a Red Pill ideal, and demonstrations of positive, dominantly masculine Frame control are still the highest priority, but more so is the modeled behavior of the girl’s mother toward you and that Frame. If your wife resists, ridicules or mocks your Frame, this is the lesson your daughter will be taught about masculinity. You must model her perceptions of masculinity while your wife models the aspects of femininity – for better or worse.
A lot of how you approach raising a daughter can be based on your Red Pill understanding of how to deal with women, and based on much of the same basic gender-complementary foundations. The same Game principles you would use with women are actually founded on behavior sets that little girls learn and enjoy while they’re growing up. Amused Mastery is a prime example of this.
You will notice that root level Hypergamy manifests itself in girls at a very young age. In Warren Farrell’s book, Why Men Are The Way They Are he notes that girls as young as 7 already have a a definition of the (celebrity) “boys they’d like to kiss and the boys they’d like to marry.” No doubt girls’ acculturation influences their preferences, but the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks archetypes are part of their mental firmware.
As a father, your primary role will be one of modeling the provider security seeking aspect of the Hypergamous equation. While that comfort and control is necessary it tends to be a trap for most Betas. The challenge most Beta fathers fail at is embracing and owning the very necessary Alpha / Dominant role that makes up the other side of that equation.
The challenge is exemplifying Amused Mastery with your daughter, but in such a way that it balances Alpha dominance and control with rapport, security and comfort. In my post Myth of the Good Guy I make the case that adult women don’t really look for this balance in the same man. Alphas are for fucking, Betas are for long term security, and men who think they can embody both are neither sought after nor really believable. The root of this AF/BB mental separation of Hypergamous purpose-specific men can be traced back to the impression of masculinity that woman’s father set for her in her formative years.
Lean too far toward Alpha dominance and you become the asshole abuser who domineered poor mom while she was growing up. Lean too far to the Beta, permissive, passive and feminine side of the spectrum and the future men in her life will be colored by your deferring to the feminine as authority – thus placing her in the role of having to create the security she never expects men to have a real command of.
The challenge of raising a boy is modeling and exemplifying the positive, dominant masculine role you want him to boldly embrace in spite of the same fem-centric world arrayed against yourself. The challenge of raising a girl is embodying the dominant masculine man you will eventually be proud to call your son in law. Your daughter needs to be able to identify that guy by comparing him to the masculine role you set for her.
Most contemporary men (that is to say 80%+ Beta men) are very uncomfortable in asserting dominance with their daughters for fear of being perceived as misogynists according to their feminine-centric acculturation. The zeitgeist of this era’s approach to fathers parenting girls is one of walking on eggshells around their little princesses. The fear is one of avoiding instilling a crushing of their independence or limiting their future opportunities by being more permissive with girls. The gender-correct hope is that in doing so they’ll all go on to be the future doctors and scientists society needs, but that permissiveness and coddling does them no favors in the long run.
If you were uncomfortable experimenting with Red Pill concepts while you were single, you’ll be even more so in raising a daughter. The most important impression you need to leave her with is that men and women are different, but complementary to the other. She needs to know that your masculine dominance is beneficial to both her and her mother, and your personal mastery of you conditions and environment as an aid to her and the family. She needs to understand that girls and women are, sometimes, excluded from male-spaces, particularly if you also have a son. In fact it’s boon if you have a son to teach while you bring up a daughter as she’ll see his upbringing as a model for positive masculinity.
@redlight.
An excellent point. Just how attractive are those Maybelline encrusted, pushup bra girls when the cosmetics come off?
Not to keep flogging a deceased equine, but… SD- ” Bottom line, either a girl wants you or not. If she does, converse normally and bring her back to your place or hers. If not, why bother with the A1-DHV-Build Rapport,escalate crap hard shit test!, freeze out, build kino, extract to secondary location ($20 cover please) , escalate, LMR, cycle. All of that effort to get an uninspiring lay because she only saw you as “relationship material” .We all know what THAT means. ” This statement may in fact be true, initially. I would submit that many women do not… Read more »
Deep down women want fathers for their kids. It’s more precise to say that the average mother prefers the involvement of the father in childrearing as long as it happens on her terms only. She wants any interaction with men in her life to be completely optional. This is the same reason I disagree with Rollo’s assessment here: The Feminine Imperative wants you to give up and allow the ‘village’ to raise your sons and daughters to perpetuate the cycle of the second set of rules. It wants you to feel superfluous; the Feminine Imperative’s maintenance relies on you feeling… Read more »
@hoellenhund2
What it wants are working, talking corpses.
Robots. The same ones men are expecting to give them sex and employers are expecting to replace all the employees.
Everybody wants them, but nobody’s gonna like what everyone else uses them for.
I gave the toast at my father’s retirement party last night. It went well. Everyone laughed at the expected moments. My father loved it. My mother was a bit embarrassed, but didn’t make a scene or anything. I think the red pill shit just went completely unnoticed by everyone except my dad. Just for context he has been talking about getting a camper and driving to Alaska for a few years. My mother doesn’t want to go for some asinine reason. Alright, I’ll did my best to keep this from sounding like an eulogy. Your journey began as you graduated… Read more »
@Andy, son I am proud.
Ya done good, Andy.
Good stuff andy, I hope he took it to heart and listens to your good advice.
hoellenhund2:
I think the FI is fully capable of killing off the pack mules. FI is ultimately a feral thing, about feels. Women don’t know how to lead men. Men need to self discover, learn how to lead themselves, or learn how to work with and follow other men.
“I think the FI is fully capable of killing off the pack mules.”
Always a bigger fish though. ISIS and islam come to mind. Hard to defend against men like that without the pack mules.
Maybe fathers are intended only to be obedient pack mules and wallets summoned at will. But everybody is forgetting again what the children say about it. The question always comes: where’s my dad? Why no dad? For which no mommy blog or feminist trumpeting single moms has any answer. That’s where they kick the dirt and stammer. Or on Fathers Day say the kid can make the teddy bear male and call him Dad or something. Or petition to have the school call it Parenting Day. Though it does suggest a new rule: Hypergamy doesn’t care what the children think.… Read more »
@ Andy
A great speech !!!
Thank you for sharing.
@ Striver:
” Women don’t know how to lead men….”
Men have to lead women, not vice versa !!
The misery we have today is a result that a big part of men don’t lead any longer.
@ Rollo:
Thank you for this Post. It’s really time, that start to act appropriately.
And the first and most important part of that is to raise our sons right.
Great post Rollo, wrote somewhat about this topic back in February… we’ve always been trying to raise our sons a certain way.
http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2015/02/03/dads-sons-leaving-a-legacy-for-your-children/
https://twitter.com/touchingcheeses/status/655438363084779520
Andy, a good job. Well done.
If I could emphasize one lesson to the younger me…if I was parenting me…it would be “pre-selection”. When I was a kid and right up to until learning game 5 years back, I was afraid of having other girls talk to me because i feared losing my girl or my target girl. Not anymore. I see now the power of having other girls talking to you. Sure it can backfire and turn a girl off. But usually it’s a trigger for action of some kind: either walking away or chasing you. I’ve have some married but very hot female friends.… Read more »
@Andy
Great speech. Good vibe. Well done.
It goes without saying, but I’m going to say it anyways, what rollo said about a man needing to find intrinsic value from being a father, and not expecting others to respect or reward that behavior, goes doubly true for the opposite. Meaning, for those like me who don’t plan to become fathers, don’t expect others to see that as a wise, rational, and respectable choice. And don’t try to explain yourself to them either, trying the rouse such a recognition of your rationality. Don’t expect your boss to promote you over the family man because, as you would try… Read more »
@Pyar Aly You bring up an interesting point. I realized in the military that with the FI being the mission statement of modern society, a man -insofar as open society is concerned-is judged by his usefulness to women. If he is young and going to college, its celebrated socially . Why? Because he’s now able to earn more money for a woman. If a man joins the military, he’s also socially celebrated. Why?Because he is Guarding The Female Nest, albeit on very macro scale . Next we come to marriage. Men are held up in high public esteem for getting… Read more »
@SD Thanks for sharing your experiences and views, this is one area of masculine development that really interests me, but also presents some issues. Imagining the possibilities for a childless, unmarried Man who can pour all the time, money, and resources He would otherwise spend on the children, wife, house, etc. into self-fulfillment and finding His own joy seems outstandingly amazing to me. OTH, I’ve heard it cited that the two times that a man’s income and productivity shoot up is after he’s married and after he has children. It has also been shown that, on the average, married men… Read more »
@Pyar Aly Numbers can be deceptive. Yes married men earn more money then unmarried bachelors. The context missing from the stats is why. If the married men surveyed are earning more as a matter of personal motivation to improve as employees/entrepreneurs, that’s one thing. While I’d like to believe this is the case and the family/kids are simply externalities, it is my observed reality that the married men aren’t offered a practical choice. Whatever the heady emotions were going into the marriage ceremony, eventually the wife makes it clear under modern FI rules that his continued participation in the family… Read more »
@ SD I fully agree. That is one of the many reason i will not marry. If you look at that kind of contract ( Marriage = Contract) with business knowledge, people would call you insane, crazy or worse than if you sign up such a contract. I want haaaaaalf…that’s what they always saying, LOL. IMO these topic is one of the most important topics Rollo has written about. We, as men, need to start acting right. Yes, a father has to start very early to raise his son(s) in a Red Pill way. The women have started the war…..… Read more »
Thx guys. I hope he follows through.
Married men vs single men income… I’m an employer. My ideal employees are married confident betas. I usually end up with married delta’s though. (Using vox days terms) I won’t hire unmarried alphas as they are usually exceptionally lazy. I won’t hire less than a delta either, because they are usually incompetent. Less than delta’s are typically unmarried too. (My right hand guy is a married alpha though) So from what I see apply with me, never married men are usually a poor bet as employees. Divorced men are different though. Same categories as married men. I wonder if single… Read more »
@ CaveClown
The biggest enemy of a man is not a woman…it’s another man…..lol
My father used to say this. He was damn right.
@SD “This is a classic example of why I state game in the PUA form is very flawed.” You don’t really even know what game in the PUA from IS. And I see you still haven’t educated yourself so here I am again so people know not to take you seriously lol “You entertained a woman for a brief period of time, but didn’t get a damn thing back from her in return besides a basic social interaction.” 1) He didn’t lead it anywhere, he probably could have but that was his decision not to attempt it. 2) Guys who… Read more »
Meaning, for those like me who don’t plan to become fathers, don’t expect others to see that as a wise, rational, and respectable choice. And don’t try to explain yourself to them either, trying the rouse such a recognition of your rationality. Don’t expect your boss to promote you over the family man because, as you would try to reason, you have more time and energy to devote to the job. Well, duh. The reasoning is flawed to begin with. Married men have to work like oxes. Unlike single men, they have no choice in that matter. Their bosses know… Read more »
@SD “You cannot negotiate attraction, not even using game. Either she finds you hawt, or she doesn’t.” lol this isn’t how it works at all. Women are attracted to high-value, high-value is demonstrated. This is biological wiring. If all they responded to were “hawt lookz” then nobody who isn’t in the top 1% of looks would be getting laid and shit like the Forever Alone club on the MISC bodybuilding forums wouldn’t exist. You’re just spouting social conditioned nonsense. The reason it actually DOES play out this way for you is because girls can pick up on how shitty your… Read more »
@CaveClown “Now you would think that any sensible woman (especially a potential mother to your children) would excuse herself and run away. But her boring pedestrian life has now become exciting. She’s in a movie.” Oh man, all you guys are freakin’ awesome. Seriously. And then I speak and I think too much and get too rational and logical. Like I’m talking to a man and not a chick.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo0d10Tl_Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tmu_R2xeGo Hope those help. It’s a common sticking point, most of us guys are logical and used to communicating with other logical men. So when we go interact with women… Read more »
Likely it’s both, but the real issue for me is, what can a Man do to make sure His productivity does not dwindle simply because He does not have a family to support?
Why does productivity concern you so much?
And if it does concern you, why don’t you simply produce stuff?
Men should talk to women because it’s fun and interesting
Are you saying it should be interesting, or that it is, by nature, always fun and interesting?
@hoellenhund2 “Are you saying it should be interesting, or that it is, by nature, always fun and interesting?” If it’s not fun and interesting, usually that means the guy isn’t pushing himself and is spending the interaction trying to think of stuff to talk about that’s interesting to the girl or looking to just leech value from their interactions. Like Julien says “half the time I don’t even NEED the girl to be there for me to be having fun, she can just silently stand there and I’m having a blast because I’m making myself laugh by expressing myself and… Read more »
YaReally, Thanks for the response to SD. I feel sorry for him with that attitude. You are an inspiration. Not a FR, but to confirm the fact that one can have fun w/o outcome dependence…Went to my homecoming yesterday and made a point of practicing daygame approach with undergrad and recent grad coeds….relaxed – no amogging to distract me, really had fun and learned to listen to them more. Opened my first two-set, tried engaging the fatty primarily to build the interest of her 6+ friend, (it works) concentrated on just conversing and remembering their names, what they were up… Read more »
@yareally ‘You don’t really even know what game in the PUA from IS. And I see you still haven’t educated yourself so here I am again so people know not to take you seriously lol” You don’t know my headspace, or my game experience. Do not presume you do. You’ve written a small dissertation complete with video content on how I must be some uneducated , desperate rube . But what I havent seen-and point it out if you have posted it-are verifiable figures.I’ve seen boasts, ad hominems and videos. Where’s the stats?Where’s the approaches vs lays comparison? Heck, where’s… Read more »
“Where’s the stats?” In the field. “Where’s the approaches vs lays comparison?” In the heads of guys who view social interactions as work. “Heck, where’s the women? All I see are videos of guys blathering about social dynamics. Where’s the payoff?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR8LTd-SfBs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXYABu7KFls&t=10s “Yet the notion any out of shape scrub dudes with routines can just close an HB10 in the modern, FI society IS bull.” Well you certainly seem like the expert lol “If you look hawt, you don’t need hokey games , props, or peacocking.” Ok, explain the Forever Alone crew on the MISC bodybuilding forums. Or the… Read more »
@SD
Before the inevitable Ad Hominem about my being a cave dwelling fat neckbeard comes …
actually it was that you are a “walking ball of negativity”, or, to update that after your latest wall of negativity text, a well-dressed and fit walking ball of negativity
@SD Put it this way: If you’ve been doing this stuff since 2004, and after *10 YEARS* of going out and talking to girls you still have fucked up negative mindsets like this and still view social interactions as “well what do *I* get out of interacting with other human beings?? You TALKED to that girl?? What a WASTE OF TIME if she didn’t SUCK YOUR DICK!! Why would you even TALK TO HER!! UGH!!!”, then it’s you that fucked up, not what PUA teaches, because there are guys on this very blog who’ve been learning game for a lot… Read more »
@yareally “Here you go man, here’s Tyler’s vid on “How to minimize annoying socializing and just get laid (100% fool-proof method)”, he made it just for you:” 100% fool proof you say? Sheeeeeit(Clay Davis Voice), I’m resigning my gym membership. Who needs proper style, a haircut, or a good masculine mindset and frame when you have a 100% foolproof method? Pay attention folks: dare question PUA and claims of 100% foolproof success, and youll be labeled a misanthrope with mental frame issues.Reminds me of how a certain church treated Galileo back in day. Forgive me if I don’t lend credence… Read more »
@SD
Thank-you for proving you aren’t actually watching any of the videos I’m linking because you don’t actually want your world view shattered. You’re like a rabid dog I can just dangle a stick in front of and you’ll bite at it lol If you actually watched the video it’s Tyler making fun of the idea that there’s a 100% foolproof method.
This’ll be my last reply to you for today because you’re clearly trolling, but thanks for the opportunity to link some useful vids for the lurkers and regulars who’ll get value out of them! 🙂 <3
@ Cave I felt like I was overwhelming her. She was really really shy. So she didn’t say much, even her car story was only a few words and I thought she was going to have a panic attack. @ Forge One good tactic from Mystery is to, after she qualifies to you, be like “Holy crap you’re into X?! I LOVE X…this is crazy, I can’t even talk to you right now…” then turn your back. She’ll chase you, you let her pull your attention back. After that, you start with compliance tests. Excellent analysis! YaReally couldn’t have done… Read more »
[genuflects] to @YaReally: you at least have one other neckbeard virginal reader out here. (keeping that fucker in tune is a beeyotch)
Now then: methought this was to be a post/thread about the care and feeding of sprogsters and sproglets?
Someone tried to pickup my wife at a playground yesterday. So if it’s one of you let me know. haha.
[Grins sheepishly] Merry-Go-Round Game.
YaReally wrote: If it’s not fun and interesting, usually that means the guy isn’t pushing himself and is spending the interaction trying to think of stuff to talk about that’s interesting to the girl or looking to just leech value from their interactions. Like Julien says “half the time I don’t even NEED the girl to be there for me to be having fun, she can just silently stand there and I’m having a blast because I’m making myself laugh by expressing myself and saying shit that *I* think is funny, I don’t care if SHE thinks it’s funny. I… Read more »
SD
Using game in the PUA context however is like a fat girl wearing yoga pants to a red carpet premiere hoping Brad Pitt is gonna tap that.
This is just so wrong in so many ways. If a man weren’t to use Game, then he would be like a fat girl wearing yoga pants who has bathed in weeks and doesn’t wear makeup or act feminine. SD has it totally bass-ackwards.
@ Blaximus
Their main program runs on feels and emotion.
Great point! We call that In the Moment ™. I recently wrote a post about this entitled, “Fear is the lock and laughter the key to her heart.”
https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2015/10/17/fear-is-the-lock-and-laughter-the-key-to-her-heart/
Yeah, social time is not fun time if you’re looking for something the social scene can’t give you. Women aren’t there to fulfill all your emotional and social needs: that’s Disney-produced excrement. That’s why you need to put your mission first, that’s why you need good guy friends, that’s why you need some sense of spiritual fulfillment, you know all the normal crap a whole community provides. Seems that men coming to the Mansophere come from two angles: the first is the stereotypical post-divorced man served papers. The second is the guy with virtually no experience and no success with… Read more »
Seems that men coming to the Mansophere come from two angles: the first is the stereotypical post-divorced man served papers. The second is the guy with virtually no experience and no success with women.
neither of these types are me
It’s true, nobody will every by grateful fort he sacrifices you make for others. It’s a passive-aggressive postion, after all, if you remind others of what you did for them and that they owe you something therefore. Humans hate it if they “owe” something to others out of gratefulness. If you want something from others offer something in return – that’s the only way for a good deal.
From http://freedompowerandwealth.com
RE: yaReally, SD Taking enjoyment in socializing with women has been one of the greatest realizations of game for me. Making them giggle a bit is strangely satisfying. Simply having the mindset that you enjoy talking with them really opens them up. The neighborhood moms all light up and wave at me and smile and shit when they see me now. (I live in an oasis of sanity with lots of little kids and SAHM’s) Another strange thing is that women have started to approach me and start conversations. Which very rarely happened before. On the LTR game front, I’m… Read more »
Imagine the following chat between two women: – You should talk to men because it’s fun and interesting. – Really? Always? – It should always be. – But what if it isn’t? – Then it’s your fault. Seriously, who would take that smartass woman seriously? I have to say it has been fun to read YaReally’s comments. The way he puts all blame on men for all social interactions they find unfulfilling is hilarious and predictable at the same time. It’s comical how promoters of pick-up, run-of-the-mill social conservatives and feminists share the same mentality of gynocentrism and male disposability.… Read more »
@hollen, this was the primary reason I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper
http://therationalmale.com/2015/07/14/our-sisters-keeper/
Yareally, as always thanks for the advice. And for schooling the haters. Field Report At a family-friendly function. The only approachable chick without a ring is an HB6-7, 25 yr old. She is making herself busy helping the hostess, along with about 6 other chicks. I walk over to the group, “You gals need any help? [long pause] ’cause I’m sure I could find someone” All giggles. Then I worked the room so to speak. I talked to men, women, played with the kids. Lots of laughs, lots of jokes. Still, no chance to open the helper chick. I see… Read more »
Yeah, social time is not fun time if you’re looking for something the social scene can’t give you.
What can it give you then?
Women aren’t there to fulfill all your emotional and social needs: that’s Disney-produced excrement.
What are they there for then?
People get involved in the social scene because it’s mutually beneficial, an emotional and social benefit to all participants. That’s the whole point. That’s why it’s voluntary. If the women you’re interacting with don’t add to your emotional and social well-being, what’s in it for you, really?
“You interacted with a woman and it wasn’t fun and interesting for you? It’s your fault, you shithead, never hers.”
I think you’re missing the point. It’s not that every woman is necessarily interesting or fun. It’s that you create your own fun by saying/doing crazy shit. Self amusement. There absolutely are boring women out there though. Watch the videos.
“The second is the guy with virtually no experience and no success with women.”
This is me for sure.
It’s great that you pointed that obvious fact out, Andy, but I’m pretty sure I didn’t miss the point. Again, YaReally’s exact words: If it’s not fun and interesting, usually that means the guy isn’t pushing himself and is spending the interaction trying to think of stuff to talk about that’s interesting to the girl or looking to just leech value from their interactions. In other words, it’s his fault. I’m sorry, but that’s pretty straight talk. The possibility that women can be boring isn’t even mentioned, By the way, you just have to love the kind of language he’s… Read more »
“Hell, you may as well do all that in your own bedroom, don’t you? You won’t even have to get dressed and leave your flat. Right? Who needs an audience, after all? It’s all about self-amusement.”
haha. Sometimes though when they are interested in your story or laughing at your jokes and they are hanging off every word it’s a good feeling. You must know what I mean. The look in their eyes. I think this happens to everyone once in a while. Even if it’s an accident.
“…you should always do it for yourself and nobody else…”
Great advice right here.
“In other words, it’s his fault. I’m sorry, but that’s pretty straight talk. The possibility that women can be boring isn’t even mentioned,”
Well, last i checked women were free agents that can react to a man however they want, which only gives me 50% control of the conversation. You know…my half.
Should I shove my hand up her ass and work her mouth like a puppet?
(I save that for the second meet usually)
“– You should talk to men because it’s fun and interesting.
– Really? Always?”
You do not see where you moved the goalpost?
HH: “Imagine the following chat between two women:
– You should talk to men because it’s fun and interesting.
– Really? Always?
– It should always be.
– But what if it isn’t?
– Then it’s your fault.
Seriously, who would take that smartass woman seriously?”
Lol HH.
Thanks for that. Now I know why I have so few female friends.
😛
Hoellenhund2: “I’m drowning here, and you’re describing the water!”
It’s comical how PUAs always insist that if you decide to take their advice and do what they promote, you should always do it for yourself and nobody else, but interestingly enough, they always promote the kind of behaviors that women supposedly just happen to find arousing, desirable or beneficial to their own social life. Yeah, it must be a pure coincidence. It’s method actually. If it were about the women, you would put her on a pedestal and try to qualify to her. But if you do it all for yourself and don’t care for her, it’s about you,… Read more »
@SD @hoellenhund2 Put it this way: If you met me in person, you would come on here saying “YaReally is boring and uninteresting.” I’m not, but you would think I am, because when you come at me in a social interaction with the vibe you give off here I wouldn’t be bringing anything to the table for you because I would be looking for a way out of the conversation ASAP. This is why I say you can’t even tell how fucked up your mindsets are. Like you don’t realize how little you ACTUALLY bring to the table to people… Read more »
The problem is that men let the values of FI to be the norm. If men stood togehther, women would have no options but to embrace male values and live with it. Women as ultimate survivors will do anything which helps them survive. It is ultimately up to us to decide the fate of civilisation. This is our responsibility – to define and bring values to society. Masculine dominance etc…….is just one part of the equation. It can be found in animal kingdom, the biggest lion takes it all. FI to the core. We should keep also to our values… Read more »
Gregg
http://millercenter.org/president/biography/washington-life-in-brief
I find being alone outside to calm me on being aware of the last part.
“I think that Plato, Socrates and Aristotle will be ridiculed in today´s society.”
They have been ridiculed for a century. It’s the foundation of post-modern philosophy. We have “progressed” to ridiculing maths and physics.
The speed of light was accorded privileged status by a dead, white cisgendered shitlord.
@gregg Good. Inter-male competition hurts society in the long run. As you point out, men who are productive and important – but not apex-dominant – will only continue helping society if they receive some degree of respect and honor from apex-dominant men. That includes the mutual enforcement of their rights, whatever they may be, with women. Women are setting the frame currently. That means the dynamics at work are covert – put of a facade of (relative) chastity, claim to be aroused by BB, screw the hot guy who ‘just gets it’ on the side, lie with a poker face… Read more »
@Forge the sky “Women are setting the frame currently. That means the dynamics at work are covert – put of a facade of (relative) chastity, claim to be aroused by BB, screw the hot guy who ‘just gets it’ on the side, lie with a poker face about it. I don’t even really have a problem with that in a way – if it were just not lied about.” Man if I grew up with that being open I would have not of. Experienced much expressed but useless violence. Wanna send you a beverage over your screen for pointing that… Read more »
@SJF
“Hoellenhund2: “I’m drowning here, and you’re describing the water!””
Hah, I was gonna try and explicate the dynamic here, and you nail it in under ten words.
I dont’ disagree with Hollenhund that male-blaming is an issue. But he has a serious stick up his ass about it. At some point action has to supplant complaint.
YaReally is describing the water. Hollenhund is drowning in it. I’m drinking it. It’s just water, it can do either.
@CaveClown Good set, man. You and dwellerman both seem to have run into the same issue – when you get a cute girl talking, laughing, being feminine, maybe throwing off a few IOI’s – it looks like an oasis in a desert to any beta schlub that’s not used to seeing that. They’re drawn like moths to the flame. “Finally, a girl that acts attractive and flirty! This is my chance!” Like, they don’t get that it’s not the girl, it’s the guy that brings it out in her. Heck, in my BP days I did that shit myself a… Read more »
@Rugby
Try smashing a kombucha against your screen, we’ll see what happens.
@Forge
http://livesodakombucha.com/
A buddy made this for his dad to decrease sugar in the sodas his dad was drinking. Also to help his sister who passed away.
Forge,
Thanks. I did well I think. I was in a good flow state. No AA at all.
Problem with the schlub that came over is that I know him well too. Such a friendly guy he is! I wanted to punch him in the face.
Now that I think about it, since he knows my wife it might have been on purpose.
He’s assumed a low orbit around her.
Now I really am gonna punch him in his stupid face.
Honestly I understand where Hoellenhund is coming from. It’s very galling to have men place fault a guy for things he knows are out of his control. I fully understand the angst and frustration that leads to things like Beta Uprising and AFCs taking it out on the whole of society before they swallow a bullet themselves. It essentially amounts to victim blaming; Betas are hapless and hopeless mules brainwashed and indentured to serve not just the Feminine Imperative (which would be galling enough), but also to have their pains and strivings that society demands be rewarded with women’s genuine… Read more »
@hoellenhund2 Imagine the following chat between two women: – You should talk to men because it’s fun and interesting. – Really? Always? – It should always be. – But what if it isn’t? – Then it’s your fault. Seriously, who would take that smartass woman seriously? I have to say it has been fun to read YaReally’s comments. The way he puts all blame on men for all social interactions they find unfulfilling is hilarious and predictable at the same time… While I give you credit for an amusing internet comment, you’re committing a logical fallacy in attacking YaReally’s comments… Read more »
@Rollo Tommasi “but they also hate women and the social/biological mechanics of the position they’re placed in.” https://public.rcas.org/hs/rchs/calendars/homework/Lists/Andrea%20BartonWarren/Attachments/357/columbine-studyguide.pdf “Whether it’s fair or not, by virtue of being a man, you’re going to have to accept your burden of performance.” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C1PYRNXiywE “but it is your fault for investing yourself in something you’re not enjoying or profiting by.” “Even the most ardent MGTOW still wants women, he simply wants her in his context and his frame on his terms – and to genuinely want to be a part of all that.” Holy hell that’s the blue pill me. Now I see what… Read more »
“I enjoy what I do and it helps me help other guys. I put myself out in the wild because it’s part of my job(s), but I honestly enjoy interacting with even the dullards and the drunks.”
@Rollo
Do you have any posts that cover that? Not that you are/were an awkward introvert, but is there anyone outside of the pickup community saying “Hey guys social interactions can be rewarding even for awkward introverts.”
To continue this subject… Think of modern male introverts like you would a fat girl who has never in her life lifted weights. If you’ve never seen a fat girl in a gym on her first day, trying to reclaim her looks, you’ve missed out on a key viewpoint in the human experience. Fat girls are fat because they choose to be. Society tries to convince them it’s not their fault, but society is a great hot tub of lies. They may not realize they’re choosing to be fat, but they are. When you see these women finally “decide” to… Read more »
@Jeremy
“blaming the world for their condition.”
Men take responsibility for are Actions.
I wouldn’t blame anyone for anything I’ve done or have experienced. But overall without the guidance of someone at Rollo Tommassi’s caliber I would have given up on myself awhile ago.
Being uncomfortable is what makes life interesting in engaging new ways of handling what it Is as opposed to what you Want it to be.
At 27 I’m heavily socially retarded.
Going to a new dance this evening
The fat girl = beta man comparison looks good at first glance. But the fat girl is encouraged to blame society for her condition, where as an introverted socially unskilled man is not. The fat girl will be encouraged if she decides to lose weight. The fat girl will be told that we should all accept her for “who she is” if she decides to not lose weight. Her sexual options are lesser than a hotter chick, but she still has options. The socially unskilled beta does not really have sexual options. A few “right place right time” circumstances, or… Read more »
Ever hear the “fat chicks give good head” trope?
Ever hear anything like that attempting to boost the sex appeal of introverted men?
@Rugby I know a guy who is 40 who can connect and relate to ever human demographic imaginable. That’s cool. I’ve had friends like that, and yep, they’re worth simply watching up close. Most of them are married/moved at this point. I’ve also had “moments” where I forced myself to make lots of eye-contact and lead interactions for hours at a time at a gathering. Unfortunately since I was also conditioned to self-restrict-sexually a lot of the positive social success that I had in that area when I was younger was simply stopped cold by implanted dogma. In effect, I… Read more »
@Jeremy “Unfortunately since I was also conditioned to self-restrict-sexually a lot of the positive social success that I had in that area when I was younger was simply stopped cold by implanted dogma. In effect, I was trained not to “close”, and this led me to train myself to simply avoid those situations.” Me to I’ve found myself changing slowly. Very slowly and it’s amazing to see yet it’s also dangerous. Slipping bam into a bluepill mindset isn’t that difficult. Playing rugby is what I use as my checks and balances. It’s what I use to express brute violence and… Read more »
@CaveClown So I agree with what you said, but I’ve got to point out that women do NOT have the same level of burden as men, even in that example. I wasn’t trying to say that. I was actually just trying to illustrate that you can’t cure a fat girl by letting her tell herself that she’s fat because of “other people”. Rather, you have to reinforce in her head that she’s actually fat because she fails to show an ounce of drive when working to get what she wants becomes difficult. The same works for introverted beta males. You… Read more »
@jeremy
I knew what you meant, that’s why I agreed with you. Just pointing out that the fat chick receives external validation no matter what route she chooses. Beta does not.
Men have to find that self mental point of origin and internal validation. Seeking external validation of anything just leads to a life of misery.
Female friend of mine is a good 350lbs. She has 3 fuck buddies.
“Me to I’ve found myself changing slowly. Very slowly and it’s amazing to see yet it’s also dangerous.”
Socially I’m changing really fast. It’s kind of crazy. For me it was just coming from a place where there’s a chance I might have an interesting conversation with this person. I have spent most of my life feeling like I’m surrounded by idiots. I still get that feeling a lot. But there are interesting people out there and you can’t tell by looking at them.
“Hey, you’re a really big, fat chick. I’ll bet you give great head!”
Is that really validating?
Seems kind of along the lines of, “Hey, you must not get sex very often, dude. Since you’re so pent up you must have a really manly sized load in that scrotum.”
@Liz
Dirty water often looks like the worst you could possibly get to someone who has never been stuck in the desert with no water.
@CaveClown
Right, and it’s actually destructive to both men and women that modern-life works this way.
Gross.. looks like I’m saving money on lunch today.
In their defense, the only fat chick I’ve ever been with (damn you budweiser!) gave really good head. lol
The only fat chick, she wasn’t even so much fat as she was thick, that I ever fucked, her line to me once in bed was, “You can do anything you want to me!”. For good measure she was my boss and I heard that if I banged her, she would stop sexually harassing me. So I fucked the shit out of her as dirty as I could and sure enough she left me alone after that. Also, true to her word, there was no ASD or dirty threshold to be broken. Had I not been so drunk I would… Read more »
@rugby, Heh, I just remembered this one time, I swear this is probably the most in-the-moment confusing and humiliating beta experience of my life. Though I laugh at it now for the inhumanly bizarre thinking in my head at the time… if I had any PUA friends back then they would have never let me live it down. I was in college. A group of casual dance friends of mine wanted to go out to dinner. We also went dancing afterwards. This turned out to be a fairly pleasant evening, and this HB 5-6 blonde girl and I split off… Read more »
@SD @hoellenhund2 I feel bad for making that comment earlier. As far as I’m concerned we’re on the same team talking guy to guy here. I care about your frustrations. ….And I have other forums I can be a judgmental asshole on. So I will offer a personal take on game and PUA to help you see a small point of why you should listen to other guys takes on the matter. Rollo: “……or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.” A couple years ago I embarked on a pursuit/passion to… Read more »
If you want to criticize PUA, ok. But at least understand how it works first.
You know, I’m not exactly a fan of Roosh, but at least he gives a clear assessment of pick-up. He observed that Western women typically view their (potential) male companions as circus clowns, optional life accessories for amusement. In another article, he called Game an “obligatory pursuit” for men. Those were his exact words. Again, that’s straight talk, no bullshit.
It’s not that every girl is a fascinating genius. It’s that you shouldn’t be looking for women to provide you with deep intellectual conversations
If that’s what you took away from my comments, you clearly weren’t paying any attention.
Women are good for fun feminine energy, bubbly happy emotions, and sex.
Many women can be good for them, for certain men.
@hoellenhund2 He observed that Western women typically view their (potential) male companions as circus clowns, optional life accessories for amusement. In another article, he called Game an “obligatory pursuit” for men. Those were his exact words. Again, that’s straight talk, no bullshit. Actually, I directly challenge that assessment of Roosh’s words. The words I’ve ready from Roosh to that end were his assessment of *himself*… he felt that he was the clown, and felt forced into that role in order to game western women. He was not, to any of my recollection, referring to the women’s assessment of him. In… Read more »
He observed that Western women typically view their (potential) male companions as circus clowns, optional life accessories for amusement
yet 50 Shades had no circus clown, they wanted the ring leader. In the trillion of romance “novels” the male is never a circus clown type or even an accountant. It’s like evopsych is right
If you want to interpret that in a negative “YAREALLY SAYS DEADBEDROOMS ARE MENS FAULT” way, you can, but it’s just logic. The reason I’m interpreting it that way isn’t that I’m predisposed to interpreting that in a negative way, I’m interpreting it that way because that’s exactly what you said. Again, your words: Deadbedrooms are generally the result of the guy letting himself go or not understanding Hypergamy. That’s why stuff like MMSL or dread game Red Pill shit can often start fixing up those Deadbedrooms…the woman hasn’t changed, the man has changed his understanding of his wife/GF and… Read more »
@Jeremy “I wish I had a video of the entire evening, right up until I got in my truck. I’d use it whenever some feminist tried to convince me that men must be trained not to rape.” … It’s not bit we both know that now. Making sure she says she’s into it before you start helps avoid being called rape. (If she ever moans NO even once it counts as rape after that) Here’s a funny story. Inspired by your read. When I was a lifeguard I would accommodate the needs of the patrons coming to the pool. One… Read more »
@hoellenhund2 “You know, I’m not exactly a fan of Roosh, but at least he gives a clear assessment of pick-up. He observed that Western women typically view their (potential) male companions as circus clowns, optional life accessories for amusement. In another article, he called Game an “obligatory pursuit” for men. Those were his exact words. Again, that’s straight talk, no bullshit.” I read the post by Roosh that you refer to. At first I agreed with his point, but then I remembered that it doesn’t truly matter how someone views you initially. You have the means to shape that viewpoint… Read more »
@hollenhund2
if you replace “fault” with “ignorance” in the above paragraph you just wrote, it might make a lot more sense.
It might me a man’s “fault” if he knows something will work, but then chooses a course of action that is other that the one known to work.
Ignorance is not a defence in law, but it’s a reasonable moral defence in a situation where someone genuinely does not know what the right thing is to do.
Roosh is an illustration of domain dependence and how it affects one’s outlook.
Holehound,
Everybody here’s been more than understanding of yours and SD’s negativity, but it’s really just getting boring so piss up a rope. Your parsing and quibbling with YaReally’s efforts on our (meaning yours too) behalf isn’t winning you any respect. Yah everybody knows you’re a sophisticated nihilist, but how far will that take you? Take a break, walk outside, fart there and come back when you get it out of your system.
@Forge the Sky “men who are productive and important – but not apex-dominant – will only continue helping society if they receive some degree of respect and honor from apex-dominant men” FWIW I make an effort to let those guys know I appreciate the shit they do (I’ve hung in blue collar, nerd, etc social circles). And I’ve hung in crowds who look down on blue-collar guys or nerds etc and it’s like do you guys even understand how much you sitting in this bar with your overpriced drink checking your texts on your smartphone is only happening because of… Read more »
Actually, I directly challenge that assessment of Roosh’s words
As you wish:
http://www.rooshv.com/men-are-nothing-more-than-clowns-to-the-modern-woman
@hoellenhund,
You know who is the master of game ?
WOMEN.
Ugly women, beautiful women, fat women, they all game you, 95% of words that comes out of their mouths are games, shit tests, and manipulation.
Men need to learn game to combat women’s natural game ability .
Nothing makes me laugh but when hearing women saying ; men play games.
@hoellenhund2 We are not men in the traditional sense—we are clowns. With our tight game we have to be entertainers who create drama and excitement in a girl’s life, just long enough so that she spreads her legs and makes sexy noises, and even though she did commit such an intimate act with us, she will soon lose interest or simply get bored, and then move on to the next shiny cock that catches her eye. As that is the only paragraph in that link that refers to men as clowns, I repeat my claim that that is Roosh’s assessment… Read more »