I actually had another post warming up for this week, but I received the following correspondence from a reader whom I’ve promised to keep anonymous. I don’t do ‘guest posts’ on Rational Male, however I do repost some comments and email I receive on occasion, and in light of the recent discussions on the male concept of love and shit tests I thought I’d let this stand on its own today:
Rollo,
I know it’s been a long time since you posted your piece, “Soldiers”, but it struck a nerve with me. I’m not sure what kind of new insight (if any) you can get from my experiences, but I left the Air Force 6 years ago and have found the transition to civilian life much more difficult than I had expected. After reading your post and reflecting, I also realized that the values the military instilled into me set me up for a lot of difficulty with women down the road. I only wish I had something like your blog as a resource when I was 21.
I went to one of this country’s military academies at the age of 17. I am 31 now and am still friends with some of the guys I went through basic training with. The basic training experience was 6 weeks long, and physically and mentally very tough. At the academies this environment gets drawn out (in modified form) through the entire first year, where we are plebes and function as sort of second-class citizens beneath all upper classmen. There is a lot of adversity, a lot of animosity directed at you in such a system, but you come to realize later on it’s a kind of “tough love”. These experiences forced us all to bond with each other, and help each other out through some very rough times.
I spent too many years of my life hoping that I could find a relationship with a woman that would be on par with the relationship I had with my male military friends in terms of honesty, loyalty, trust, forthrightness. I ended and/or sabatoged a number of relationships with women because I was looking for this kind of “love” I had for my brothers and could never find it. I had always assumed that I would find a form of “love” that rivaled all other relationships I’d had previously. Loyalty was (and is) a major virtue for me, and I never felt like I was finding that with the women I dated. In the military I developed a pretty keen eye for bullshit, and every relationship I had with women, even the best ones, I found my bullshit alarms going off at some point. Now I realize what was tripping my bullshit alarm—hypergamy. Hypergamy is directly opposed to the concept of loyalty. I could tell when women were being shifty.
Part of the reason I could tell is because I had actually swallowed a version of the red pill as a cadet, though I’d never actually heard the term before. A few of my friends are what they call “naturals”. They helped to undo a lot of the extreme blue pill notions that I had been raised with.
Years of movies and TV and guidance from authority figures had trained me to look for “that special girl”. One of my friends in particular introduced the idea of being “kind of an ass” to girls, and only showing the nice side later (because I really was a nice kid). Never lead with your nice side, he advised me.
We also fucked a lot of girls with boyfriends. I saw some of the most disloyal and underhanded behavior out of women during that time. I remember when my friend was urging me to make a move on a girl we’d been talking to in a bar for some time. I said, “oh she has a boyfriend”. He asked, “well did she bring him up in conversation? Unless she brings it up it’s fair game. And you don’t address it either. Don’t say anything about the boyfriend, just keep the conversation elsewhere for the entire night.” It worked. Tactics like these worked over and over again, and while I enjoyed the hell out of this new found power, I was becoming more uncomfortable about the nature of women. It’s only due to my sense of morality and loyalty to other men in arms that I didn’t fuck the wife of an army guy who was deployed. I felt too disgusted with myself to go through with it… she, however, didn’t seem the least bit troubled by her marriage.
Fast forward to my adult life, I decided that I should be looking for a good woman to settle down with. See, I had never swallowed the Red Pill completely—I resisted the harsher implications of it. I told myself, NAWALT, and that I just needed to look for a good girl. The One. I understood so much that so many other guys don’t get, but I was still holding out hope for The One. I figured I would find this One at some point in grad school. After all, this is where all the smart, motivated, good girls are, right?
In two relationships the girls wanted to be exclusive with me. I said yes quickly, because exclusivity was what I wanted too. It wasn’t too long after that that my bullshit alarms got set off. One girl, leading into Christmas break, said she was going to a techno show in a city about an hour away from our school. I was planning on studying for a final, so I didn’t bother trying to go. As the date neared I realized I felt comfortable about the final and I wanted to go out that night. I asked to go with her—she said no. And this is where I could see the hamster frantically spinning its wheel.
All her reasons were obvious bullshit. I know when a girl is seeing another guy, because I’ve been the other guy. I know what the stories are like. I ended it. I was heartbroken. I wondered constantly whether I had made the right call. I missed her desperately, and I constantly questioned whether my radar had been off. My male friends (now thoroughly blue-pill, as I was attending a liberal civilian grad school) told me I was overreacting and being paranoid and jealous and not respecting her space, blah blah blah… A whole year later a girl I was friends with let slip that my ex actually was meeting another guy in the city, and fucked him the day after I dumped her.
No surprise—but I was quite upset that a few other girls I was “friends” with had known and never told me. They could have saved me a lot of grief. But then again, they were women—I don’t quite get it, but it’s like all the girls were sticking up for each other and covering for each other, even though they weren’t really close friends. It’s almost as if they felt they needed to cover up the tactics that women use, and keep the men from knowing about them—as though there was a driving need they had to keep men in the dark as to the true nature of women.
In fact, I have never been steered in the right direction in relationships by any woman. And this will bring me around to my next point—the feminine dominated civilian environment—especially academia.
The second grad school relationship followed a path that was remarkably similar to my first—in fact, looking back, I have had three major relationships, with girls who wanted to be exclusive, and they have ended because the girls were becoming involved with other men.
University life was especially difficult to adjust to. There was a lot less voicing of opinions and a lot more concern over offending others—that was one of the first things I noticed. I also noticed that many of the men seemed timid compared with my male military friends. See, this grad school was almost an extension of high school.
Approval by the females was very important, you could not anger them. The men were incredibly concerned with their popularity, and with getting to know the right people. I figured out early on that pissing off one of the cuter girls could lead to social death. And even apart from the girls, the men didn’t seem to act like men I had known.
There was a hierarchy in the school, and these young men followed the rules of this hierarchy. They would not challenge any male who was deemed to be “socially superior”. This blew my mind, because my military friends would never have accepted such a thing. We had a group, a crew, and we could always stand our ground, and if push ever came to shove then we might have to fight someone—if it meant protecting our dignity. I also figured out that physically standing my ground wasn’t socially acceptable in this environment.
I realize I may sound like some sort of thuggish asshole with a persecution complex, but I was responding to some blatant disrespect that shocked me. In the military, the men I knew wouldn’t openly disrespect or ridicule a man—unless they were looking for a fight. Actually, in the military I recall a lot more general respect between the men than I found in grad school. The grad school men felt like women to me—gossipy, petty. Overall, the male virtues that I had learned in the military became unimportant in the culture I found myself in.
Other values took priority, and I think this may be the Feminine Imperative you spoke of. Conflict was always to be avoided. Drastic effort must be taken to avoid offending others. Most of the men were willing to undercut each other for just a chance to be with one of the prettier girls. And the pretty girls—they walked on water, constantly had a harem of beta males tending to them. Actually, I watched several of these girls cheat on one boyfriend only to begin dating his friend. The social power of the prettier women cannot be overstated. I dated and dumped two pretty girls in a row (for the reasons I stated above) and quickly found myself on the outside of most social events.
I saw a lot of truth in your thoughts about military men. Some military men are some of the most Alpha dudes I’ve ever met. My military friends changed me from a dyed-in-the-wool beta to an Alpha that could fuck other dudes girlfriends with far too much ease, and stand up for himself (a modified pseudo-alpha, obviously I wouldn’t need to write this letter if I was a true natural alpha). But a lot of military men, Alpha though they are, have not actually swallowed the red pill completely. Somehow, I’d like to be able to get that message across, because there’s still a lot of NAWALT and One-itis in the military culture, even though it is a predominantly alpha culture. I am just grateful that I came across your blog.
After two failed relationships I was feeling like shit. I had tried looking for The One, and tried to have an Open and Honest relationship with lots of Communication and it failed dramatically. Now that I’ve found your blog I’ve come to terms with a lot of what had been plaguing me about women. I’m back to spinning plates, and I really do think it’s the best option for any male in today’s society. I’m still a little bitter about these red pill truths, but I’m no longer trying to fight against them.
I have a good correspondence with men in the military and it’s one of the more humbling aspects of writing what I do. I’ve had men on deployment send me pictures of their worn copy of The Rational Male on the barracks bed and I get chills. I’m glad I can help these guys transition from the idealism they have in the military to the often tragic Red Pill realities they encounter when they’re discharged.
This reader makes an interesting point I hadn’t considered in the Soldiers posts; there is a modicum of loyalty and respect men develop amongst themselves (even between different branches of the military) while enlisted that they believe will be relatable and respected by the women they encounter after their time in the military. They believe that the idealistic male concept of love (and in this case love for their military brothers) is the same concept women will share when they enter civilian life.
Young men entering into military life out of high school have (in most cases) 4 years to learn an idealism based on the Old Set of Books, is it any wonder they become suicidal after they are forced to come to terms with the disillusionment of that idealism in the face of the feminine-primary reality they enter when they’re discharged?
22 Veterans per day take their own lives.
@Random Angeleno Yeah, no. Church I was in as a teenager, the chicks were all partying hard, jumping from hawt guy to hawt guy, drinking, and smoking as soon as they could. Come Sunday they were pointed at as the examples of how I should behave, but I knew what was really going on. I was turned down by all of the ones in my peer group (for more alpha guys, naturally) who were all unwed and pregnant by their first year of college at the latest. No shit. Blew my mind when it happened. My sister was the only… Read more »
No, I’m not white knighting or blue pilling here. ” A man’s only option nowadays is to be a ruthless player or go celibate.” Not. I’m neither. Even though AWALT, some women are much better at controlling their hypergamy than others. The urge often passes. I coined the term microcephaly (thinking with your little head) as the male equivalent of hypergamy. Microcephaly doesn’t care if she is with another man, or if doing her violates various ethical principles like golden and platinum rules. What triggers this microcephaly? High HB (SMV). Same as with hypergamy. Regardless of ethical or hypocrisy considerations… Read more »
@Rollo … “Deti’s right…”
When is Deti ever not right? If anyone is new to these blogs in the manosphere, whenever you see a posting from the deti, you know its going to be accurate, useful, and full of real wisdom.
Something I’ve decided is indisputable fact after paying attention for about a year. Thank you for your comments Deti, whoever you are.
He’s just a dude dreaming of the Sand Hills.
@BuenaVista… No…. there is something different & deeply profound about whatever Deti says – mere statements that ring with so much truth and beauty that do not come from us mere commoners (oops – commenters lol). In our generation, where almost everyone has a blog and things to say, Deti (not from our generation I’m almost certain) has had a blog created FOR him – just to capture the comments and wisdom he’s given as gifts for those who pay attention. Check this out… https://detination.wordpress.com/who-is-deti/ This is not a normal commenter, this is someone who is a gift, a gem… Read more »
@Rollo – “And Brad Pitt has become the poster boy for the progression of a former Alpha becoming a supplicating Beta as a result.
He went from being People Magazine’s sexiest man alive to being a dancing monkey chump of the feminine imperative.”
Couldn’t have been said better!!!
When I was a kid, I thought that all cats were female and all dogs were male. This was an early intuition of the nature of men and women and how they love. But as I got older the social brainwashing hosed that. Around the same time I saw a big smokestack belching into the sky and told my father that I was worried about that messing the air up. He said no, it just disappears. It’s interesting and disturbing how basic and obvious truths to even a child get completely obfuscated by cultural conditioning. And we come to deny… Read more »
The aging spinster cat lady former CC rider – is this a sign of some kind of latent lesbian tendency that prevented her from ever being able to properly bond with a man?
Does it say something about a woman’s ability to bond and appreciate and reciprocate loyalty if she prefers dogs?
It appears our man Changis has some competition!
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/least-ten-other-men-are-fruitful-genghis-khan
On the notion that women have sole ownership of the decision to have sex: I see this changing. Women are getting more aggressive, and have been for some time. If you are asked ‘how much would you charge me to rent you for an hour?’, and you decline, you have ownership of that decision, yes? Or if girls approach you, are flirtatious, reveal themselves to be DTF – and you redirect them to some other guy(s) and then bail from that location – you’ve really proven to be the one who’s made the decision there as well, yes? There are… Read more »
@Steve H, don’t get ahead of yourself,…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11375667/Men-must-prove-a-woman-said-Yes-under-tough-new-rape-rules.html
@ “respnsibility”/”women chooses” / etc.: There is a very simple and distict formula to decide these questions without leaving the RP-mindset: The party that has the *critical mass of power* in a any process bears the responsibility. This true at work (The boss rules the workers, but the mistakes and successes are his…), in private life (cf. –> driving a car) and all other areas. The same litmus test works with women fucking other men: 1) The sole critical mass of power in the decision of wether or not to accept a man’s sexual advances lies in the hands of… Read more »
@”If you are asked ‘how much would you charge me to rent you for an hour?’, and you decline, you have ownership of that decision, yes? Or if girls approach you, are flirtatious, reveal themselves to be DTF – and you redirect them to some other guy(s) and then bail from that location – you’ve really proven to be the one who’s made the decision there as well, yes?” Your responsibility and above all *social power* in these examples is just a token one – a) because one party (the female) can at any time for any reason change the… Read more »
@sudden This issue about Islam and feminism is to be covered in Michel Houellebecq’s new novel Submission. See my ROK article about it here:
http://www.returnofkings.com/53588/why-michel-houellebecqs-submission-is-the-most-important-novel-of-2015
@447 – your rebuttal makes perfect logical sense. However: a) so also can the other party (the male) change the outcome at any time, and for any reason b) this all depends on the relative value of the male as well as that of the female in question. if the male’s value is high enough, so also could he move along to ostensible ‘hundreds’ of females who would be DTF with *him*. Also – if the female’s value is not high enough (simply put, let’s say she’s chubby) – there are a world of social dynamics that negate the amount… Read more »
“if you simply retain the humility to dial a call-girl at the end of any night you don’t land a ONS and want sex, then that further puts you in the position of a single man who maintains the power to have sex at any time of his choosing.” OK, but at what cost? 1. Soliciting a prostitute is illegal in most states. When you’re caught, you’ll be publicly humiliated, suffer criminal penalties and social ostracism, and probably lose your job. High risk. 2. Sex with a prostitute is PURELY transactional. The only validation a john gets is confirmation of… Read more »
Deti, I think you are looking at the Whore Paradigm from the point that sex is of value. To more and more men now, sex is just pleasure, whether wanking, ONS, P&D, or paying a whore to leave. It is about the pleasure of coming and has nothing to do with value, tenderness, emotions. Pure physicality. As one wag stated, he finds jerking off using a pussy more pleasurable then using either of his hands. Also I think that porn has transformed a lot of men from viewing sex as an act of love to an act of gymnastics/depravity. So… Read more »
IMO hookers are a reasonable pressure relief. In certain countries like mine it’s perfectly legal and inexpensive, hell it’s way cheaper than a traditional date.
And I wouldn’t say it’s a confirmation of low value, rather it can be used if you can’t close the deal that night. Steve H is right in stating that escorts can be used to induce a form of outcome independence and therefore serves to reduce the scarcity mindset.
And one last thing: sex is very often transactional, but with hookers it’s at least honest.
@ deNihilist: you live up to your name 😉
@Steve H …so also can the other party (the male) change the outcome at any time, and for any reason. This is only half the story. The male has only one option, continue with seduction/escalation (sales pitch) to proceed according to her open gate, or abort the operation. He does not have positive control over the outcome, only negative control. He can abort, but he cannot directly choose success. The female has both positive AND negative control over the outcome. She can abort, and she can also throw herself at a man such that no man would refuse. Restated, would… Read more »
Rollo, I’m sure you do this on purpose because, compared to Heartiste, your blog is more about your posts than the comments (and that is your right), but I wish you had a function that showed the 10 most recent comments. As you might agree, many of the commenters here are good and provide good input. I would like to be able to come here and see the latest comments (regardless of which post it’s under) to be able to follow the conversation. Just a thought. I still say “thank you” for your work. Your writing is awesome and spot… Read more »
@Jeremy
You know I thought there might be an exception to that dynamic in situations where a man drops below his normal SMV floor (i.e. he’s thirsty), but then I realizde that all he’s doing there is increasing just increasing the SMV gap (optimizing hypergamy for a low SMV woman), and increasing the size of the pool he’s fishing in. The dynamic remains the same, he’s just offered a woman a hypergamously good deal as an incentive.
“wish you had a function that showed the 10 most recent comments”
if comments were sorted (or could be sorted) by recent first it would be perfect
What I wouldn’t give for an “edit comment” button to fix typos. I suppose I need to just proofread a bit better.
^^^
It keeps you honest.
@Rollo
Fair enough. Personally I just want to not look like an idiot, but I can see your point with some of the folks you get here. Almost seems like it would be nice to engineer a comments system that can tell the difference between an edit for typos and an edit because someone called your bullshit.
Of course one option would be to have a system that lets you see each revision of the comment. Hmmm…
deti: ” The only benefit a man gets is sexual release. It’s two steps above porn and one step above frequenting strip clubs. There are other alternatives like simply using online porn.” The fact that men will pay $100-200 suggests that they get more than mere sexual release or a slightly better feel on their dick. Myself, I often have more intense orgasms masturbating than with PVI. Sex with the pro pushes the buttons in the brain driving mating behavior in a number of subtle ways. As confirmed by prostitutes, often the men are looking to talk more than actually… Read more »
It’s perfectly reasonable to expect that your friends/family don’t poach your woman, just like you expect them not to poach your job. The whole point of having friends is that they are allies and you agree to a relationship of reciprocal cooperation and aid rather than competition. But for anyone else, poaching is acceptable and Sun’s approach is eminently rational. It’s just free market mechanics. If someone is poachable, it means that they are not with the best possible partner they could get. Someone’s attempts to prevent their mate from being poached are, in effect, trying to use sentimental or… Read more »
You had me up to here: But the male imperative taken to its extreme is much worse (IMO), as it requires regularly killing off large amounts of men… Male imperative sexual strategies are evolved contingencies to female imperative sexual strategies (Hypergamy). I do agree, and have stated before, that unilaterally unrestricting one imperative while maximally restricting the other is a recipe for personal and social disaster – the genders evolved for complementarity, not to be adversarial. However, each strategy is not mutually exclusive of the other. If men are hoarding resources and women it’s in response and preparation for countering… Read more »
@ kryptokate
Monogamy didn’t magically appear in the fall of 1945. It had been the primary arrangement of western civilization for a couple of thousand years prior. While not perfect it did a decent job of mitigating the evils you speak to.
What isn’t given full consideration is that the current system is causing men to quit. See Japan as the leader. Now that may not matter much to you. But where is the money going to come from to continue to subsidize open hypergamy?
re: “the only benefit a man gets is sexual release” +1 to jacklabear’s comment. If it was that simple, this blog wouldn’t exist. Guys would be completely fine with just masturbating and there would be no negative consequences to completely avoiding sex. Is sex a need? That question has never been answered competently by anyone in the entire world. Rollo’s focus is on intergender dynamics; my focus is intrapersonal dynamics that result from intergender dynamics, including the lack thereof. e.g., the incel brain in particular. I also wonder in particular about sexuality in relation to adolescent brain development. “Windows” of… Read more »
@kryptokate This is the type of feminist argument that assumes that “Men vs. Women” is the big battle, and that either men OR women will be the winners. In evolutionary biology… maybe. One of the larger points of recognition in the manosphere is that Civilization was created by and for Beta males: those males who would other wise have no access to pussy. All those men you’re arguing will just be rounded up and killed? They’re Betas, and there are a hell of a lot more of them than there are Alphas. Betas are the ones benefiting from Civilization, as… Read more »
@ BP You’re right, monogamous marriage has existed for a while. I should clarify, when I referred to the post-WWII period, I was referring specifically to a society where virtually EVERYONE was monogamously married. While marriage did exist pre-19th century, it was mostly for the well to do. The upper class and landowners married, but lots of people never did, they just worked as servants/farmhands for the landowners and lived on their property. And also, there used to be WAY more prostitutes, as a proportion of women. I forget the exact numbers but if you look at the number of… Read more »
The situation you’re in as a man is somewhat unique, and likely a direct explanation to why humans are the most successful species on the planet. Just think about it a bit. If we accept (not everyone does) that humans evolved from lesser lifeforms, then we have to accept that reproduction and the results of reproductive choices made us what we are. Well, natural selection requires a cross-section of reproductive choices to pick from when it’s picking winners and losers. The larger the cross section, the more adaptations are tried. It would then stand to reason that the most successful… Read more »
@ greginaurora I’m not seeing where you think we disagree. Well, I guess you didn’t like my allusion to post-WWII nostalgia, but other than that, what you just said is completely consistent with what I said.
I think you believe us to be in disagreement merely because of my screenname and your assumption that I’m a “feminist” (a term so amorphous and stretched to mean so many things as to be meaningless). But actually you and I are not disagreeing (though your emotions about it may be different from mine).
@ Jeremy That’s an interesting idea and while I’ll have to think a little more on it, it seems like it might be right. But, just one little tweak: the reason that humans are fucking machines is not because human males are so much more ready to mate than males of other species, but because human females are receptive to mating all the time. The male of any species will mate with any female who is receptive, i.e. in heat. It’s just that in most species the females are only in heat a few days a year. So actually it… Read more »
@Kate, Women increasingly are provisioning for themselves, and tax-funded government services like the police/military/firefighters etc obviously do play most of the traditional male protector roles. This is financial nonsense. Here’s some facts for you… Even after the significant loss of male jobs (much greater traditional male jobs lost than female jobs) in the last two recessions, men still pay more in taxes than women do. Most of those tax dollars (~60%) and a significant portion stolen from the unborn are spent on social programs. Social programs are state-run organizations that take the place of women’s traditional role, that is of… Read more »
“I feel that our position as top species on the planet says something about the male drive to fuck anytime and anywhere being of primary importance in making us a successful species.”
Dogs fuck anytime and anywhere they come across a female in heat.
Maybe human reproductive success has more to do with women being in heat most of the time, and seeming to be in heat even when they’re not.
@kryptokate Fair enough. Mine was a more emotional response than yours. I disagree with you specifically on the “Male Imperative” vs. “Female Imperative” and how those two different dynamics affect the greater civilization of which they are a part. A split of that type does not truly represent the world as it is. A truly “Male imperative” society could arguable be recognized as a Polygamous society. But, a truly “Female imperative” society is also a Polygamous society. The only real difference is whether or not “Marriage” exists in the society. “Marriage” = one Alpha owns a whole lot of women.… Read more »
Apparently KK beat me to it while I was writing. Kryptokate January 30th, 2015 at 6:04 pm @ greginaurora I’m not seeing where you think we disagree. … what you just said is completely consistent with what I said. Rollo, BP and greginaurora were pointing out that your argument is based on a false dichotomy. Regardless of whether you call yourself a feminist or not, most of your argumentation is based on the leftist belief in the blank slate – that all people are basically the same and have no hardwired instincts, and that all human behavior is driven by… Read more »
@KryptoKate
Human nature is why very few women would sign the marriage contract that you propose – it holds them accountable for their mating choices.
@jacklabear
Heh. I’ve had that same thought before.
“Let’s not get married. Let’s instead sign a legally-binding contract stipulating what we will share and what the monetary penalties are for breaking the contract.”
“What?!? Why the fuck would I agree to that!”
“Exactly.”
“No, I’m not white knighting or blue pilling here.” But you did, Jacklabear.
That whole fucking word salad you spewed forth was nothing but white knighting blue pillery. RMV? You’re a real clever guy… lolzozlz
@ greginaurora Well put. I agree with everything you said. You’re right that in both systems, effective polygamy is the result. I’m not specifically trying to argue men vs women anything, the only reason I mentioned the “female imperative” and “male imperative” is because it’s a foundational principle of this blog, i.e. Rollo’s iron rule # I’m-not-sure that one gender’s sexual imperative necessarily impinges on the other’s. But in any event, I agree that either gender’s sexual strategy is ultimately linked to a pre-civilization primitive, animalistic scenario in any event, and they both end up in effective polygamy. And that… Read more »
Allen
January 30th, 2015 at 7:20 pm
“No, I’m not white knighting or blue pilling here.” But you did, Jacklabear.
That whole fucking word salad you spewed forth was nothing but white knighting blue pillery. RMV? You’re a real clever guy… lolzozlz
I’m an engineer. My goal is to make things work well in the real world, especially for me and those I care about..
I don’t really give a shit about dogma
@ Jeremy Sure, I guess that’s sort of true, but only at a very, very macro level. At an individual level, MOST women haul their asses out of bed every day and go to work and earn a paycheck and pay taxes just like men, and all of us benefit from police and firefighters, and all of us get social security and Medicare. The biggest transfer of wealth is not directly to women but to elderly people. You’re not arguing for abolishing national defense, police, and firemen, are you? As for divorce rape, you don’t have to convince me on… Read more »
@ Kryptokate
You speak of prostitutes with cloaked disdain. At they’re making an honest living by contributing to a genuine need. The last thing we need is another communications major or advanced degree ******studies major in our workforce to contribute rehashed outrage and well spoken nonsense.
If women collectively believe they are contributing to the maintenance of civilization by working then why do they so often only choose to work in fields that are best described as luxuries?
@ jacklabear I’m not sure what you think I’m “proposing”. I’m not proposing anything. I don’t think any system is that great. Monogamy isn’t great, polygamy is definitely not great for anyone but the alpha males, polyamory doesn’t work for the reasons you posited. We’re a bundle of contradictions and competing impulses from primitive times, living in a technologically advanced world, and we’re an impossible hybrid of being animals with animal impulses who have an analytical cortex layered on top that chatters to us with articulate rationalizations for our animal drives. The only perfect “proposal” I could see would be… Read more »
@ BP I have no disdain for prostitutes at all. I’m surprised more men don’t use them, I would if I was a man. Prostitution should absolutely be legal. I actually hold much more disdain for Pilates-Princess PTA stay at home moms living in fancy houses who are just high-priced prostitutes but act as if they’re holier than thou. As you said, at least a straight-up prostitute is engaging in an honest transaction rather than trying to dress it up as something else. I can’t speak for why most women choose to work in easy/fluffy/lower-paying fields, but I imagine it’s… Read more »
“But, I expect that alimony laws WILL be abolished shortly, as more women are having to pay it now.”
Yes, and child support will be abolished when women stop getting 90% of custody.
“Kryptokate
January 30th, 2015 at 8:02 pm
@ jacklabear I’m not sure what you think I’m “proposing”. I’m not proposing anything.”
“Personally, I think that all marriages should be actual contracts, with clear terms set at the outset and specified damages for breaching the terms.”
I stand corrected. You didn’t actually propose it, you just ‘personally thought’ it.
Kryptokate – “The only perfect “proposal” I could see would be something akin to Brave New World, but we’re not there yet and most people seem averse to the idea anyway.” I thought the same when I was 16. Now I understand that model is just benevolent, soft, soulless slavery. Any society tat requires, REQUIRES mind altering drugs to keep te peope happy is Not worth living in no matter how easy it s to get laid. I can’t imagine anything more awful. On the the othe hand aren’t we living in Brave New World? Given the rampent promiscuity, social… Read more »
Badpainter,
I guess “The Hedonistic Imperative” wouldn’t appeal to you then.
http://www.hedweb.com/
The problem with this idea is that humans would implement it, and the implementers would abuse the power.
@ BP Yep, we are definitely moving in the BNW direction, though we’re not there yet. And yes, it’s benevolent slavery, but aren’t we all arguably slaves already, to our biological imperatives, our families, the culture we were born in to, etc? It’s probably not useful to get so philosophical, but in a certain sense there is no such thing as being “free”, so maybe the best we can do is pick our master. A genetically engineered utopia designed by humans is only problematic because we’re not smart enough to make it happen, no? Right now we’re genetically engineered by… Read more »
KryptoKate, I’m glad you found it interesting. 35 years ago I figured that we humans are having problems because through technology our power to meet our instinctual drives have been greatly amplified (pushing the Button instead of throwing a rock, population explosion), but the strength of those drives have not diminished accordingly. We’re up shit’s creek because we ate from the tree of knowledge. Like the HI, the solution is to adjust our brain wiring so that the drives are in line with our power to implement them. But of course humans doing that would abuse the power. So the… Read more »
Kryptokate – “It’s probably not useful to get so philosophical, but in a certain sense there is no such thing as being ‘free’…”
I am now absolutely convinced you’re a woman.
@bp
On the the othe hand aren’t we living in Brave New World?
We are. Orwell got it wrong, Huxley got it right. We’re entertaining and consuming ourselves to death. The “powers that be” don’t even have to keep us in line. We do it to ourselves.
Huxley was ranting against the oncoming train of rampant, out of control consumerism and all it brings with it. He was dead on about what would happen.
Badpainter,
“Beyond Freedom and Dignity” was written by BF Skinner.
The neuroscientist David Eagleton argues that free will is largely an illusion.
“I am now absolutely convinced you’re a woman.”
I’ve noticed that you’re a wise man. I’m hoping to learn something from you. Could you elaborate on that?
Actually I just realized what you meant. She wants to submit to a dominant something. But like most modern women, it must be anything but a man.
Bingo
@ Sun Wukong
The four great dystopian novels in my opinion are:
Player Piano – Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Brave New World – Aldus Huxley
1984 – George Orwell
Atlas Shrugged – Ayn Rand
They are all coming true in some form or another which only speaks to the limits of human imagination, and literature that no one writer has combined those themes into one single work. Also, I find the psycho-sexual subtext of those works to be very illustrative of Redpill truths generally although limited by the authors narrative.
@bp
I was rather underwhelmed by Atlas Shrugged, but I’ll have to read Player Piano as I haven’t yet. Thanks for the recommendation.
@ jacklabear I don’t want to derail the subject/content of this blog, and I think this thread is done anyway, but I have some questions about AI along the lines of what you wrote that I would like to pose to an actual computer engineer. Because I don’t know anything about computer programming, but my instinct fits with what you said — that an artificial intelligence that was purposefully designed as opposed to “designed” through selective biological pressures/competition for resources would have no reason to oppose human interests. But my question is whether it would/could have any interests of its… Read more »
Kate, “But my question is whether it would/could have any interests of its own or any motivation to do anything at all.” That’s the issue with the hedonistic imperative too. With no ‘hedonic treadmill’ – that is always only being able to relieve suffering temporarily – would we want to do anything? As far as computers go, the method I proposed has it built in that it’s mission is to keep improving itself. Jack LaBear is a pseudonym too. I have only been able to say since a few years ago that I’m a Man with full self acceptance. Toxic… Read more »
“@447 – your rebuttal makes perfect logical sense. However: a) so also can the other party (the male) change the outcome at any time, and for any reason” The male can only eject, thus gaining no mating. His ejection also is no real (social) threat and can be redefined via the FI-tools of “was gay”/”afraid of a strong woman”/”full of fear”….so even the only male option can still be punsihed severly (for normal men), just because the ego of an (objective) HB5 was hurt. “b) this all depends on the relative value of the male as well as that of… Read more »
@447 “Damaged guys / extremy unattractive guys (e.g. have money/good job, but really obese/smelly/extremly unattractive face)” How would your average beta (most likely 80‰+ of men) not fall in the not having money/not having good job/really obese/extremely unattractive demographic of men? Better yet, what if they’re compared to the Hollywoodized version of men? Because these days we all are, whether the chicks mean to or not. Face it: the vast majority of men will never bang a 7/10 or greater without cash up front these days. If you think that isn’t the case, time to pay better attention to a… Read more »
@447 I live in Germany as well but I beg to differ concerning the typical john. I don’t think one is like the other. I myself don’t frequent brothels nor do I use escorts but I know some guys personally who do. These guys aren’t betas at all, they’re rather high drive alpha guys who use escorts only to relieve pressure when hey’re not in the mood to hook up. Some of them are exteremely dominant, so they might pay but they clearly control the interaction if only after a couple of call-ins. Sometimes the women even give it up… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong: “[…] How would your average beta (most likely 80‰+ of men) not fall in the not having money/not having good job/really obese/extremely unattractive demographic of men? Better yet, what if they’re compared to the Hollywoodized version of men? Because these days we all are, whether the chicks mean to or not. Face it: the vast majority of men will never bang a 7/10 or greater without cash up front these days. If you think that isn’t the case, time to pay better attention to a big part of why men learn Game.” Your statement depends on the… Read more »
@heyjay: “@447 I live in Germany as well but I beg to differ concerning the typical john. I don’t think one is like the other. I myself don’t frequent brothels nor do I use escorts but I know some guys personally who do. These guys aren’t betas at all, they’re rather high drive alpha guys who use escorts only to relieve pressure when hey’re not in the mood to hook up. Some of them are exteremely dominant, so they might pay but they clearly control the interaction if only after a couple of call-ins. Sometimes the women even give it… Read more »
Did anyone else laugh at air force basic training being called tough?
[…] post Loyalty & Hypergamy is an article that I think some of my male readers would find illuminating (I guess women might […]
[…] noreply@blogger.com (Vox) This email Rollo shared from a soldier describes the experience of many a beta or delta concerning female disloyalty:One girl, leading into Christmas break, said […]
” I have never been steered in the right direction in relationships by any woman” That put a genuine smile on my face because it’s such a pure form of truth. It’s something all men should realize on their own during their lifetime
WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND. I find it rather odd that men (let me focus this topic on white men, just as an example) who are constantly trying to seduce women and get them into bed, before and outside of marriage, are then complaining that THEIR woman is now screwing around with other men. What do you expect? You guys are turning women into sluts (using pickup, game, manipulation, telling her premarital sex is okay, etc.) and then when you find the one you love, you suddenly expect her to behave like a nun? It is like people spitting in… Read more »
@Arnold
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/06/the-slut-paradox/
http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/12/madonnas-and-whores/
Loyalty
http://edlatimore.us8.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=ef1962eb46697805d9fa2476a&id=478139338b&e=920ba0a911