There are times I’m typing away on a particular topic and I get scooped by my own comentariat.
Quote from BadPainter (emphasis mine):
George – “She prefers a dual pluralistic feminine sexuality where she can express and enjoy greater sexual freedom and an artificial feeling of control and dominance.”
Because giving herself sexually to a man who is a provider either makes her a whore (trading sex for material goods), or a slave (giving up power to submit to a dominant man). By chasing Alpha Fux she can submit in that moment and maintain the illusion of independence. By accepting commitment from Beta Bux she gets the very highest price for her sex and can aintain the illusion that’s she is not a whore. Combining the two, Alpha Fux and Beta Bux means accepting a submissive position to a man who provides with an expectation of sex.
This is antithetical to entire feminist paradigm of equality with, and independence from, men. To achieve this ultimate feminist goal women achieve equality, and equality of outcome by political policy, and they achieve independence by becoming lesbians.
George’s response:
Well put, agreed. I wonder how many women really are successful with this plural hypergamy and how many really aren’t. We are seeing many media examples of this and examples of young girls in traditionally masculine leadership fantasy roles (hunger games, etc.). However, I personally know very few real females who are successful with “open hypergamy” and none who characterize real leadership traits. The ones attempting to practice this plural hypergamy expose themselves as the untrustworthy sluts they are, divorced, etc and no man worth a shit wants anything to do with them. They end up extremely insecure bitter hags in short order.
Again BadPainter:
George – “They end up extremely insecure bitter hags in short order.”
This seems to be the case amongst all women who hold to the feminist notion of equalitarian relationships. And I think generates similar results amongst women who don’t actively subscribe to feminism but willingly accept the benefits of feminism. And I think it’s the career track reality that does it.
A woman working outside the home must submit to the hierarchy of the work place. The workplace is the Alpha of her existance because it can and will dispose of her as soon as she is unwanted/not needed. The workplace is dread writ large. When she goes home she can’t as easily submit to her beta husband because she knows he can’t and won’t dispose of her so easily, especially if there are children involved. This is a source of disrespect, she gets away with it because she can. She resists because she has been playing that submision game all day and refuses to simply give in at home.
Likewise a man having to walk the tightrope of workplace politics being both a good follower and showing initiative, and leadership irrespective of rank and position, has little desire to fight those same battles at home. So he gives in out of exhaustion what he wants is a moments peace where his way is the only way because he’s the king of his own castle at least in his own mind.
Both man and woman are ultimately played against each other in this situation. The woman is more resistant to submit, the man more reluctant to dominate because he now has to be more dominant than the woman’s work place without the benefit hard dread sans consequences. In the past the practiced amount of domestic dominance required would be reduced or mitigated by the economic reality of the woman’s dependence on the man for her material standard of living. Not so today when divorce law favors the woman, and domestic violence laws, and standards for defining abuse only apply to men. Today those influences plus the nuttiness of feminism makes a challenging situation worse as the the gender roles are now competitive instead of complimentary and collaborative
I realize I may raise a few hackles with today’s post. And while I wont apologize for what I’m going to propose here, just know that my intent isn’t to offend or injure, but rather to strip away a degree of what I think is a very pleasant, but sugar coated fiction.
Whenever I read or hear a man consistently refer to his wife as his “bride” it alerts me to his Blue Pill state of mind as well as his conditioning. This is a relatively new colloquialism for the Christian set (“christianese”). Generally I hear and read this from Evangelical Christian men because their context (or domain) is one of a self-enforced reverence for their wives. Usually it’s meant to be a not-so-veiled attempt at pedestalizing their wives in casual conversation with people they think will appreciate it (and hopefully earn cookie points with the wife), but what it reveals in my Red Pill lens is a guy who believes his “voluntary” deference to her makes him more respectable to her.
Before you think I’m unfairly highlighting “Christian Beta Game” there is a similar, but more pervasive dynamic in the married-man set of the manosphere. Whenever I read a man (I’ve never heard a guy verbalize this) refer to his wife as the “First Mate” or “First Officer” it similarly sets off the same sensitivity I get with the “brides” men – and for much of the same reasons.
Any man with a cursory experience in the manosphere recognizes this buzz-term from Athol Kay’s Married Man Sex Life. The principle of the term stems from the idea that a husband needs to be the ‘captain’ of his marriage, his family and the director and decision maker of where that unit will go, what their goals are, etc. On the face of it, this male headship positioning stresses what men (and wives) interpret as an old-order conventional complementarity between the sexes.
A strong male leadership role is very appealing to both men and women, and I’ll be the first to cosign the need for a man’s ‘captaincy’ as it were in his marriage and his life in general. This ‘Manning Up’ into a headship of his relationship hits the right buttons for a man predisposed to Beta complacency (not to mention it gives him a faint hope for resolving a sexless marriage), but also for women who are encouraged by the ‘new’ Alpha-ish husband they hope will take the lead (usually from her) and potentially generate the tingles he’s never quite been able to do for her.
Unfortunately, this push for ‘captaincy’ is self-defeated by the equalist-mindset compromise of allaying a woman’s inherent insecurities by giving her assurances that she will be the “first mate” in this new arrangement. Even in a position of instated headship (relinquished or otherwise), men predisposed to an egalitarian equalism still want to ‘play fair’ and offer an appeasement for being allowed to be the head of the home.
Her voice will be heard, her input will be considered, because he just “loves her that much”; this is the self-satisfying rationale for being allowed to direct the course of his marriage and family. The problems inherent in this are rooted in the compromise of his assuming all accountability for the failures of that arrangement while still granting her his magnanimous assurances that he’ll always have her best interests in mind.
Father Knows Best
I overheard a young woman explain what amounted to open Hypergamy to a Beta kid I know over the holiday. At one point she said, “It’s women’s job to get away with everything they can in life.”
Then the kid asks, “So what is men’s job to do in life?”, “Not to let ’em” was her reply.
I’ve always stressed that the Frame in which you begin a relationship will set the overall tone of that relationship. That’s not to say the predominant Frame can’t be altered (indeed many men fall victim to their own Beta backsliding in marriage), but that tone, that predominant directorship of who’s Frame will set the course for where it goes and how it develops is set before you sign on to monogamy in its various forms. It is either your reality into which a woman must enter, or hers that you must enter. Their may be compromises, but these will be colored and characterized by whose Frame is the dominant one in the relationship.
Know this now, your wife, your LTR girlfriend, doesn’t want to be your “First Mate”.
While you may think you’re flattering her with your self-styled magnanimity, this compromise only reflects your Blue Pill equalist hope that she will genuinely appreciate the sacrifices you make in considering her Frame. The dominant Frame (hopefully yours) is what matters. While a wife’s input may present you with insight you may have overlooked, she must ultimately acquiesce to your Frame’s primacy.
When you consider her a co-equal actor in what you believe is a mutual Frame (or what you’ve convinced yourself is really your Frame to maintain that relationship) you will own your mistakes and failures, but she will share in, and at times take an equal credit for, your successes.
There’s a reason that the cliché is “Behind every great man is a woman” and not the other way around. Any man claiming a supportive responsibility for a woman’s success – or even being graciously acknowledged by her for it – is perceived as a coattail rider. When it comes to a comparison between Sensitive New Age Guy® and Strong Independent Woman®, a woman is always a support system for a man’s success. Men’s genuine support is emasculating because ‘support’ is a feminine role in either an egalitarian or a complementarian relationship.
Down with the Ship
While it may be comforting for a woman to believe her opinion is valued, or that what passes for her newfound submission to his direction is guaranteed by his considerateness, very few ‘first mates’ are willing to go down with the ship once it starts taking on enough water. The ‘first mate’ notion is really a win-win situation for women who are already virtually guaranteed of long term support whether her ‘captain’ sinks the ship or not. With so many reassurances of social, emotional and financial support women can always reserve the right to jump ship should her husband’s fates and fortunes not live up to his headship.
When she goes home she can’t as easily submit to her beta husband because she knows he can’t and won’t dispose of her so easily, especially if there are children involved. This is a source of disrespect, she gets away with it because she can. She resists because she has been playing that submision game all day and refuses to simply give in at home.
In other words, the ‘captain’ is really on his own regardless of his ‘first mate’s’ input.
She’s absolved of his failures and shares in his successes – which are made all the better when he convinces himself that the directives of her Frame are really his own. Any consideration for real mutual input will always be mitigated by this foreknowledge of a relatively ensured support should he not live up to the performance demanded of a ‘captain’.
Forgetthesky from last week’s comment thread:
I think George and Badpainter bring forward an interesting hypothesis above: the idea that women are pursuing an AF/BB strategy so relentlessly not only because a man to exemplify both sides are so rare (though they are unusual), but because women would generally avoid such a man – because she would have no power over him, he would command all spheres. And modern women fear submission greatly, they’ve been trained to. And they’ve often enough never experienced it positively, with so many absent and beta father’s around.
A Man needs to command all spheres to genuinely be the ‘captain’, and ultimately this disqualifies any validity of his woman’s considered influence on him.
The idea of a needed balance of including a wife or LTR in a man’s decision making process is not just the result of an equalitarian mindset, it also serves the Feminine Imperative. While equalism is the root belief, the notion of a mutual (though nominally lesser) inclusiveness works on much the same level as Choreplay. If a man “plays more fairly and evenly” the expected reciprocation should be a reward of more of a woman’s love, respect and pussy. In fact this is the sell for both equalist Purple Pill inclusivity and doing a feminine defined set of equalized chores.
The problem then becomes one of the observer effect when a woman is constantly aware of the inclusivity, captain-first mate Game that she and her husband are both overtly playing. Observing the process will change it, so any assuming of ‘captaincy’ and any presumption of a roleplaying legitimacy on his part become suspect of both he and his wife’s genuineness. Truly submissive women want a decisive, unapologetic man with masculine determination and ambition for his life, who doesn’t need to be told he needs to be so. He ‘Just Gets It‘, and so much so that his Frame is the dominant one from the outset of the relationship without any back and forth about captains or first mates. She enters his reality, or she doesn’t associate with him.
Women don’t want to be overtly reminded that they’re “being included”. This is pandering to women who already know they have the blameless option of abandoning or jumping the ship. This overtness then inevitably script-flips to male ridicule.
“I’m the king of the castle. My wife told me I could be” is how the joke that men tell themselves goes, but the self-observation is really one of abdication to a woman’s Frame while he lamely grasps at an authority he doesn’t believe he’s ever earned.
No one laughs at his joke.
@ctt2 Bullshit. Throw her ass out and find a roommate. The reason she reverts back to form is because she knows you’ll take it. If you absolutely can’t do that because she’s on the deed and mortgage (the only valid reason), tell her the relationship is over and that you will treat her like a roommate from now on. If she makes a pain in the ass of herself, invite all your male friends over and behave badly. Get drunk, make a lot of noise and simply make it miserable for her to be around nonstop. Come and go as… Read more »
That post should have read: Nuclear Dread Fallout: “STD testing before sex”.
M Simon, Thanks, my biggest regret in life is listening to my family and getting out instead of going for 20. Been trying to reenlist through the reserve for two years now but they just aren’t opening quotas for prior service. I know her well enough, and have seen from her reactions to the way other girls act around me, to be pretty confident that moving beyond having options to actually exercising those options would blow things up. Her leaving wouldn’t be the problem, it is the vindictive/destructive behavior that I think would happen on her way out that concerns… Read more »
@ctt2 Hypergamy only knows that it wants, that’s all it knows. Any and all behaviors that could potentially satisfy want are therefore allowed. Any and all behaviors that may require delayed gratification for success are discouraged and must be learned through experience if at all. But, Hypergamy is just the motherboard/bios of the system. The base operating system software package also includes whatever her parents gave to her. Sounds your SO’s mom gave her an example of a dominant female to learn from, which means she’s never experienced accepting a male frame. She probably doesn’t realize in the slightest how… Read more »
@jf12 “Aha! The explanation is found in yet another empirically-testable hypothesis: the hysteresis of love. Men who have pair-bonded sufficiently to stick around for a couple of years (or so) will require a lot more anti-mating behavior to drive them off.” The above makes sense but how does this relate to shit testing? I see a relationship between shit testing and hypergamy (leading to it). What really is anti mating and why is it triggered? Comes back to the man showing weakness and the female testing to see if he is still strong enough or turned weak and now needs… Read more »
Glenn, She is on the lease, so simply throwing her ass out is not an option. Otherwise, I already do what you suggest short of bringing home other girls. I come and go as I please, I have hobbies that she doesn’t approve of and continue with them despite her objections. She has a much higher tolerance than I do for living in squalor so I do end up cleaning more than I should but I am not going to trip over shit and step in cat puke in my own damn house trying to make a point that would… Read more »
Ugh,…here me now, believe me later…
http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/06/shacking-up/
Absolutely Rollo, that wisdom came too late for me but I will never make the same mistake again.
Not a cut on you ctt2, just a warning for others.
I didn’t take it as a cut, no worries. I’ve been reading for about three years now and finally got around to registering and sharing so that others can see a real world example of the principles you write about. My situation came about exactly as you describe, she needed a roommate, I mistakenly thought I could save some money on living expenses and once she got comfortable everything changed for the worse.
Badpainter December 31st, 2014 at 12:48 pm Well yeah. OTOH I have children. And I have a LOT of determination. I have been training her for 40 years to be “naturally” (LOL) submissive. It is just starting to catch. I just gave her tingles with “I want you to bring me a beautiful young woman with big tits. You can play with her too. Then you can win me back by wanting me more than she does.” We have discussed RP many times. She admits she wouldn’t be interested in a man that other women didn’t want. I have been… Read more »
@ctt2 – What I’m really getting from you is that you haven’t digested the Red Pill yet, which is okay – we have all been there. And it’s an ongoing process. I guess the only advice I have then is to keep talking about it here and to keep diving into the Red Pill world. I think that at a certain point you will look at the situation and realize that it’s ridiculous for you tolerate the BS you and will do something about it. Until then, keep choking down the Red Pill, it’s quite bitter.
embrace the suck
LOL. I know that place.
Glenn, You may be right. In the time I have been reading RM you have stood out as one of my favorite commenters and I do appreciate you taking the time to advise me here. I’m not so arrogant as to think I have it all figured out, there is always room to learn and grow but one thing I can say for sure is that my decision making is finally centered around my own interests and long-term success. If I do come to find a faster and better path out of my current situation I will be happy to… Read more »
@ctt2 – My one fan, lol. And like you said you are making real progress spinning plates and you know your situation is fucked. Only you can make the right decisions, so good luck. And me? I’m a fucking maniac and more than a couple of times wished I was more thoughtful about moves like you are trying to make. So, good luck! And no need for “crow eating” – I just want you to be happy and powerful in your life. I’ve been stuck with a cunt who’s treating my awfully and it sucks. It also sucks to not… Read more »
re: “What really is anti mating and why is it triggered?”
Maybe it simply promotes women’s scheme of serial hypergamy at the expense of men’s scheme of polygyny. It’s hard to think about.
@jf12
“Maybe it simply promotes women’s scheme of serial hypergamy at the expense of men’s scheme of polygyny. It’s hard to think about.”
Yea it is, but in the end whatever their reason is I personally done really care to a certain extent, I know what I need to do as a man to always be above them and several steps ahead.
Well I’m about to head out for NYE and smash some plates 🙂 Happy NYE everyone! Will leave you with this great line from a song:
“All my bitches love me and I love all my bitches,
But it’s like as soon as I cum, I come to my senses” – Lil Wayne
An 8 year old lost in the wilderness will out live a SEAL? catholic’s are the true faith? A magic oil will cure cancer?
Next stop, the fucking twlight zone?
re: antimating behaviors. Never having been alpha, I have complained too many times that women don’t shit-test alphas as much as betas, while self-professed alphas laugh and say they get shit-tested by their women all the time. I will suspend disbelief, and assume the alphas are correct. In what way would it evolutionarily profit a woman to *partially* drive her alpha male into the arms of another woman via antimating behaviors, i.e. for *her* to promote his polygyny? 1) She doesn’t get burdened by bearing too many children from having to supply all the sex. A handful of children, maybe,… Read more »
Why wouldn’t women shit test their alphas? Hypergamy doesn’t stop just because she landed one, it is the perpetual search for something even better.
@ Rollo
E.M.K.’s marketeering is little more than Purple Pill pablum
Ah….. I hadn’t heard of Evan Mark Katz. I just looked at his site and I didn’t know women needed dating coaches! If a women needs a dating coach she…
A) Is mildly retarded
B) can’t stop talking
C) is heinous
D) All of the above
Basically stop being stupid, jabbering and lose some weight. Problem solved. Done.
Brilliant post!!! Great way to start 2015!!
By the Rollo, just watched this recent animation called ‘The Book of Life’, don’t know if you or other brothers in the manosphere have watched it but…fuck me!! reeking of FI indoctrination – Open hypergamy, equalism, male apologetics, purple-pill centrism, defining manhood through FI, etc – absolutely reeking of it.
With Red pill lens now fully adopted, I will make sure I filter things my future children will watch.
@ Glenn “Or better said, any time she didn’t just give me all the love and sex I thought i deserved because I married her, I acted like she broke a promise she made to me..” Same here. I ruined my marriage with my equalist mindset. A few years after the divorce I said to my ex “If I had dominated you physically when we were married, we would probably still be married.” She agreed. Actually, I might have just had to pin her to the floor a couple of times near the beginning to make a point. But I… Read more »
ctt2, “The strangest part is that while exhibiting bad behavior her shit tests have started to center around marriage.” It would be a good idea for you to get accurate information, preferably from a lawyer, about what actions and durations constitute entry into official marriage, in your jurisdiction, before you take any more seemingly innocuous actions, your status changes in some relevant way, or deadlines pass. And don’t mention this to her, since … In some places, it takes little more than having something jointly, like a bank account, or a lease, and presenting yourselves as husband and wife (while… Read more »
I’m looking forward to when scientists invent the artificial womb and sex robots. Men won’t have to deal with female idiocy and irrationality anymore:
“Most women don’t dream of dating nice guys.
… 40% of women’s “fantasy TV boyfriends” are cold blooded murderers!
21% are vampires…
And only 14% are nice guys!”
(female preferences in a boo: 86% bad boys vs. 14% nice guys).
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/women-dont-dream-dating-nice-guys/
Softek December 30th, 2014 at 11:16 am “I get pissed because I’m not getting laid,” “This is the same girl I was talking about sex with, we even started trading some stories, she would be really open about telling me how turned on she was, how horny she was, etc., “I need dick so bad right now,” etc.” So, did you offer her yours? I noticed excuses why you ‘wouldn’t’. Is the real issue fear of women on your part? Do you know why men are afraid of women? Because men’s first experience with women is with their mothers and… Read more »
Ok, going back to that outburst above to some Islamic(?) newbie. Emote much? Heh – someone lost the reins on their Amused Mastery (r)(c)(tm)(sm)(&tc). Note to all – that bullying does not speak for me. I hope we continue to hear from a broader and broader range of the men on this planet on the subject of managing the female half of our species. Regardless of whatever personal trigger about Islam someone needs to learn to manage better, I’m pretty sure we all want to see more men unplugged and shutting down unfamiliar perspectives will get in the way of… Read more »
sfcton
December 31st, 2014 at 6:32 pm
Yes. A magic oil will cure cancer. You might want to give some study to the body’s endocannabinoid system, Which regulates the immune system among other things.
The National Cancer Institute has this:
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4
ctt2
December 31st, 2014 at 6:58 pm
Why wouldn’t women shit test their alphas? Hypergamy doesn’t stop just because she landed one, it is the perpetual search for something even better.
Even if she has decided you are the best she can possibly get the shit tests don’t stop. So far the best I can do is to keep them infrequent and short.
And sfcton,
You might want to watch the video posted here to see the magic oil in action. The first minute should be sufficient. The whole thing is 9 minutes :
http://therationalmale.com/2014/12/30/mutiny/comment-page-2/#comment-77610
It is 2015 and I’m half drunk. Happy New Year.
The bad thing about having your wife as “first mate” and getting her advice is that when you don’t take her advice and you end up being wrong, she’s going to think she might do a better job than you as captain. My husband has probably never heard of the captain/first mate model, but at times he acts in that way. When he doesn’t take my advice and it turns out I was right, that weakens his position in my eyes. It’s very hard for me to follow his lead after that. It works a lot better when he looks… Read more »
@M Simon Half drunk? Amateur. A happy one to you too, sir. @jf12 In what way would it evolutionarily profit a woman to *partially* drive her alpha male into the arms of another woman via antimating behaviors, i.e. for *her* to promote his polygyny? Easy. Rollo is fond of saying “alpha is a mindset, not a demographic.” Assuming he’s correct, then continued shit testing of an alpha is to ensure that his mindset hasn’t changed. If it ever does, she’s out the door. This, in a nutshell, would be the root of the burden of performance. Enjoy the new year… Read more »
@ Glenn Holy shit, man. I don’t know what the fuck happened. Long story short, obese girl with pretty face was giving me IOI’s at the last party I was at (indication of interest, I’m assuming is what that acronym means)…. …I didn’t even get drunk, but somehow I just went along with it, and going from playfully putting my arm around her to casually putting them all the way around her in full contact with her tits. Flirting like crazy and it all just came completely natural. So at New Year’s she tries to kiss me and I freak… Read more »
Been thinking awhile of this. Seems to me, one of the problems in our modern western society is that war is more machinery then men now. Where as war was a constant in human evolution, and very human dependent, laying waste to a good percentage of youngish, able bodied men. The times of peace, being rare, there would tend to be less free men available for marriage. This instantly would move even a bare bone beta 5 up at least 2-3 points on the MMV. Also the more capable warriors would be kept in service and be given the rights… Read more »
Oh yeah, meant to also add, that with the more capable warriors impregnating more then their share of woman, then leaving, it would naturally lead to a substantial amount of lower caste men, betas and omegas, to take up the burden of raising these Alpha children with their own, by marrying these once virgins. Remembering that for most, it was an agrarian life, and the more hands available to do the work, the higher chance of successfully living beyond 50. I think these men would have had no problems marrying women with Alpha bastards. One extra hand already available, and… Read more »
Just caught a clip of a movie about a Swedish family on vacation in the Alps who, while eating in a restaurant next to the mountains, see a controlled avalanche happening. It’s a routine thing and harmless as those who’ve been there before know but the father gets scared by it.
Movie is about the changing dynamic in the family after they witness that.
Title is Force Majeure. Sounds like it might be good.
This is the clip I saw:
http://www.details.com/blogs/daily-details/2014/12/the-best-films-of-2014.html?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_341819&mbid=synd_zergnet
On a completely unrelated note I thought this snippet of Feminist Ana Kasparin was interesting. When a superstar athlete spikes a ball it turns her on.
^^^^^
If it doesn’t queue up properly it is supposed to be at 17 minutes 32 seconds.
“The bad thing about having your wife as “first mate” and getting her advice is that when you don’t take her advice and you end up being wrong, she’s going to think she might do a better job than you as captain. But that would mean giving up the freedom and protection being able to wait on the outcome, and if it turns out okay then you give great advice. If it doesn’t turn out okay, then it wasn’t you that made the decision. How many women want to go from first mate to captain and want to take that… Read more »
“How many women want to go from first mate to captain and want to take that responsibility and risk?”
Zero?
This is the paradox. Women want to heard, have input, even hold a veto against decisions they don’t like but never ever want or seek the responsibility that comes with authority. In light of that how valuable is a woman’s input when she risks nothing, or like My Lanta can’t admit when she’s wrong?
Maybe is off topic but today I swallowed the red pill. I thought I had taken the red pill years ago but the bitterness was just the red pill melting on my mouth. Today I really swollowed it. And it is the worst feeling I ever had. I was walking around like a zombie for 20km this afternoon, I had to. Today I met a close friend, for a walk, conversation is like cherries, you can’t eat just one, and my friend told me something about my ex girlfriend that I didn’t know, he just told me now because 2… Read more »
This guy is great making analysis and I could say that is Red vaccinated. Likes he says: “I grew up with my sisters and female cousins. I know what they can do.” Maybe knowing that his mum betryed his father for 17 years helped a lot..
He is Red Pill but is not an alpha. That makes him to play the game very rarely. The rewards are not worthy, He says. Most people see him as a looser.
(sorry about my english, I’m not a native and I can’t edit posts also)
@softek – Dude, what a great story. Particularly the bit about seeing how little your concerns matter to her. And getting pissed at some wildebeast obese bitch telling you to grow a pair. Very nice that you realize how unnecessary the whole story is.
@Roby – I get it. But after that disillusionment comes great clarity. The sting of it will wear off and in the absence of women and their fucking pedestals, you will have room for yourself. And your English is fine. Thanks for your brutal honesty.
@Glenn But after that disillusionment comes great clarity. It’s true Glenn, today I finished my mourning. It took 2 years, I couldn’t make it shorter,meanwhile I knew some women but they were not good enough to make me forget about her. I think it took so long because we didn’t have a traumatic finish: our LTR (living togeter for 4 years) slowly converted into a LDR. I was living in East Europe but to be able to be a MGTOW and escape a beta sliding I had to come back to the West. I didn’t get a payoff from that… Read more »
@ Glenn Thanks again for the advice. I still have a lot to learn but some major things have been clicking — I actually thought of you when I was about to give up that night. My friend saw me eying her and when I was falling asleep by myself on the couch he came over and slapped me in the face about 10 times and said “When that clock strikes midnight you get on that mattress with that girl and you make out with her.” Then he called his other friend over and he slapped me in the face… Read more »
Hey @softek , fat girls can be sexy when they are confident and work their “ass-ettes”
Here’s Andressa Soares showing the skinny girls how it’s done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkjG02aYCu8
I love a baby whose got back!
Not as off topic as you may think on first glance, but Dalrock has a great post on marriage / earning rates and the institutions that contribute to the increase and decline: https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/how-to-close-the-gender-pay-gap-once-and-for-all/ No Fault Divorce is a potent tool not only to convert husbands into child support payers, but to weaken the status of husbands within marriage. By continuing our national policy of No Fault Divorce those young men who don’t witness their fathers being evicted from the home will see that their father can only remain in the household so long as he caters to their mother. By… Read more »
That’s not a fat girl.
Rollo – “Still think she’s the First Officer?”
Only if her name is Fletcher Christian.
Look, I’m going to say it how it is and everyone will hate me for it but the cold hard reality is kinda bitter : I’ve been reading manosphere blogs for 2 years now and much of the information is solid but when it comes to LTRs it’s simply a lose / lose situation for the man. There are so many writers bending over backwards to lick their own asshole (and her’s as well it seems), dancing around the question of how to run an LTR, how to have kids, how to hold down a wife and none of them… Read more »
Excellent comment Richard. I know it’s a typo, but “marred” men (beginning of Paragraph 7) is sooooo fitting.
@ Richard – You’re not saying anything new here. The faithful readers of RM usually self-police the trolls, SJW’s, white knights and religious nuts; so any POV related to inter-gender relationships is open for debate. Not sure what ‘sphere’ blogs you’ve been reading, but here at RM, Rollo virtually owns “”biting down into the hard meat of truth”, and the great comments here will pick at the bones and suck out the marrow. If you haven’t already, read the best of years 1-3 and all the posts back when RM started. There will be many others, but here’s a good… Read more »
@ Richard I can’t really argue with anything you said. Men have been devalued by a variety of forces including globalization, mass immigration, welfare, etc. etc. All of these things reduced the value of a man’s labor and therefore the value a man has to a woman. And I have no doubt you are correct that upper class men have it much easier attracting and keeping high SMV women. However I still think it is possible to have a good LTR if you are at least middle class. Below that it’s probably tough because your woman will know she has… Read more »
^^^^^
I should add that my in-laws got married at age 18 after they found out my mother-in-law was pregnant with my future wife. People had more traditional thought processes back then which probably helped. A lot.
The more red pill stuff I read, the more depressed I get.
My Lanta
January 1st, 2015 at 2:44 am
Free of error? Never. Correct my errors? Always. But first I must be convinced I’m in error. Not an easy task.
Mentats – as Rollo mentioned before to you, you’re in that early stage of becoming RP aware that makes you feel ill. It will pass and hopefully you will soon feel giddy with a sense of hope and excitement that you can now live life with a new outlook and understanding of Hypergamy & the female imperative. There are elements of MGTOW that I agree with (self improvement and selflessness) but it’s better to understand and embrace your RP knowledge rather than be defeated by the FI. Be thankful you’ve found this fantastic life-changing resource, and I’ll quote Rollo here… Read more »
“don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better”
Richard
January 1st, 2015 at 7:55 pm
I’m still glad I helped make a family. YMMV. OTOH I was RP since ’62.
Today the first mate asked me in essence, “Why do you always treat me with disrespect?” My answer in essence. ” I’m shit testing you to see if you can remain submissive no matter what.” How is that for turning the tables some?
@ Johnycomelately One thing I’ve noticed about the married alpha types is that they often didn’t enter the relationships as alphas but that their wives helped build them into alphas. pfff.. are you kidding me? I see, and have experienced, exactly the opposite. The manosphere tends to equate Alpha with Bad boy. Well, ok, a lot of ‘young’ boys are rowdy hell-raiser rebel types. I was.. It got me laid by higher SMV type chicks, but that wasn’t my reason for behaving that way. I was just young and restless. So that young, dumb, and full o’ cum waitress started… Read more »
@ TuffLuv
I get your point but don’t forget that most men are not beta because they made that choice. Life made that choice for them. Not everybody was lucky to be Red Pill vaccinated when they should (during childhood) and only got a pill when the virus was already inside the brain, or worse, they didn’t get it yet.
re: untitlement. A fine new word to start the new year.
“When you tell a highly-untitled, high-scrupulosity person that they are entitled, it goes about as well as telling an anorexic person that they are fat.”
http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/
Women’s suggestions to highly-entitled women: “Eat moar! Moar! Act like you’re starving!”
Women’s suggestions to highly-untitled men: “Eat less! Die already, wouldja?”
The hypothesis of Low Beta Tolerance has legs, I tell you.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/#comment-170038
@Roby
Very true.. which is why Beta men with sons better get their shit together right now.
@ Chillax – Just because you don’t know anything about Islam doesn’t mean criticism and rejection of it is wrong. Perhaps you should go here thereligionofpeace.com and see the death toll from Jihadis blowing up innocents, 24/7, around the globe – non-fucking stop. But hey, I guess you are too cool to get upset about that. Not me. And I will burn this fucking site down if Muslims start preaching here. Period. I can barely deal with the fucking Christians, Muslim preaching is too much. I’m under no obligation to tolerate the promotion of such barbarism. And then you misuse… Read more »
I’ve never heard a man refer to his wife as “my bride.” That would sound quite weird to me.
The only time I ever called my wife a “bride” was during our wedding. That’s really the only time that term is appropriate. Bride and groom are very context-specific terms.
@ Tuffluv – Alpha hating is just jealousy. The “why do girls only like assholes” thing is more of the same. I mean, if a guy surrenders his power in an interaction, framing it from the outset as begging the woman to like them, I’m supposed to feel bad for for that guy? Nah. It’s also true that my ability to approach women was hard won. It used to be nervous – and I still get pangs of it sometimes. I used to qualify. I was scared but I manned the fuck up and pressed through and found out that… Read more »
@Glenn Yeah, I’d say the most fulfilling part of getting back on my feet in the SMV to this point, is conquering my fear of rejection (Rollo your articles on rejection avoidance are priceless, and sped that shit up dramatically). I find myself practically seeking it out for the learning experience, and to harden myself. I aim high, like you with the 22 year old. Why the fuck not? It’s really, really, fuckin’ fun.. reject me bitch! I love it! Wait, if I never approach her, she can’t reject me. Fuck that. I’d rather be rejected by her than by… Read more »
@Water Cannon Boy and Badpainter A lot of women think they want to be “captain”, but they don’t. A woman who is in charge in her marriage will usually tell her girlfriends and female coworkers, “God, I feel like I have three kids!”, when she only has two and a husband. She will always see him as an immature burden and will feel contempt for him. I personally don’t want to be head of our marriage and family. I also don’t really want to be his advisor. The times when I’ve thought I could do a better job of it… Read more »
My Lanta – “…might ask his wife’s advice to try to show that he values and cares about her, but that’s not how it comes across…”
I know that now. As such I view women’s opinions as like wallpaper; decorative, and ultimately structurally unimportant.
As for being wrong I enjoy and derive happiness from being right, so and admission of wrongness is not necessary so long as there is a public admission of my rightness.
Great post, Rollo
Abysmal lack of vision if she imagines her role in life to be not merely a kid but a shitty kid. Being enabled in this at every step by society doesn’t help, of course.
Women are inveterate backseat drivers, if you let them.
[…] Mutiny in the marriage. Related: Language matters. Related: Attitude matters more. […]
[…] Mutiny in the marriage. Related: Language matters. Related: Attitude matters more. […]
Ok I read this. All of it.
You don’t even believe that women can be trusted to be the “First Mate” to your captaincy. Or rather, that they are not capable of and don’t want to be consulted by you. I mean what is the point of being a woman in your eyes? Is there an objective to life other than providing sex, cooking, cleaning, and raising babies and little girls? What a meaningless existence you contrive for women.
[…] Mutiny […]
[…] She's most likely an alpha widow… Mutiny | […]
Rollo,
The First Mate (FM) is Second in command. He can advise. He is in charge of the day to day running of the ship, but the Captain has the first and final say.
FM is submissive to the Captain. Unless – as you point out – there is a mutiny.
As you know I’m using LTR these days. 😉
[…] any credit for anything going right — pretty much as discussed in Rollo’s post “Mutiny.” Your wife isn’t a First Officer, she’s just a passenger — and a very […]