The Medium is the Message

I hate the term ‘Mixed Signals’ or ‘Mixed Messages’. “I dunno man, she sending me mixed messages” is a common refrain among many a Blue Pill man.

More often than not there’s nothing ‘Mixed’ being communicated, rather it’s a failure (willful or not) to read what a woman is communicating to a man. The average guy tends to ‘get’ exactly what a woman has implied with her words, but it takes practice to read her behavior and then more practice in self-control to apply it to his own interpretation.

When a woman goes from hot to cold and back again, THIS IS the message — she’s got buyers remorse, you’re not her first priority, she’s deliberating between you and what she perceives is a better Hypergamous prospect, you were better looking when she was drunk, etc. — the message isn’t the ‘what ifs’, the message IS her own hesitation and how her behavior manifests it. 10 dates before sex? This IS the message. Canceling dates? Flaking? strong interest to weak interest? This IS the message.

Women with high interest level (IL) wont confuse you. When a woman wants to fuck you she’ll find a way to fuck you. If she’s fluctuating between being into you and then not, put her away for a while and spin other plates. If she sorts it out for herself and pursues you, then you are still playing in your frame and you maintain the value of your attention to her. It’s when you patiently while away your time wondering what the magic formula is that’ll bring her around, that’s when you lean over into her frame. You need her more than she needs you and she will dictate the terms of her attentions.

What most guys think are ‘mixed messages’ or confusing behavior coming from a woman is simply due to their inability (or refusal) to make an accurate interpretation of why she’s behaving in such a manner. Usually this boils down to a guy getting so wrapped up in a girl that he’d rather make concessions for her behavior than see it for what it really is. In other words, it’s far easier to call it ‘mixed messages’ or fall back on the old chestnut of how fickle and random women are, when in fact it’s simply a rationale to keep themselves on the hook, so to speak, because they lack any real, viable, options with other women in their lives. A woman that has a high IL in a guy has no need (and less motivation) to engage in behaviors that would compromise her status with him. Women of all ILs will test a man’s fitness (i.e. shit test), and men will pass or fail accordingly, but a test is more easily recognizable when you consider the context in which they’re delivered.

More often than not women tell the complete truth with their mannerisms and behaviors, they just communicate it in a fashion that men can’t or wont understand. As a behaviorist, I’m a firm believer in the psychological principal that the only way to determine genuine motivation and/or intent is to observe the behavior of an individual. All one need do is compare behavior and the results of it to correlate intent.

A woman will communicate vast wealths of information and truths to a man if he’s only willing to accept her behavior, not exclusively her words, as the benchmark. He must also understand that the truth she betrays in her behavior is often not what he wants to accept.

We get frustrated because women communicate differently than we do. Women communicate covertly, men communicate overtly. Men convey information, women convey feeling. Men prioritize content and information, women prioritize context and feeling when they communicate. One of the great obfuscations fostered by feminization in the last quarter-century is this expectation that women are every bit as rational and inclined to analytical problem solving as men. It’s the result of an equalist mentality that misguides men into believing that women communicate no differently than men. That’s not to discount women learning to be problem solvers in their own right, but it flies in the face how women set about a specifically feminine form of communication. Scientific study after study illustrating the natural capacity women have for exceptionally complex forms of communication (to the point of proving their neural pathways are wired differently) are proudly waved in by a feminized media as proof of women’s innate merits. Yet as men, we’re expected to accept that she “means what she says, and she says what she means.”

More than a few women like to wear this as a badge of some kind of superiority, however it doesn’t necessarily mean that what they communicate is more important, or how they communicate it is more efficient, just that they have a greater capacity to understand nuances of communication better than do men. One of the easiest illustrations of this generational gender switch is to observe the communication methods of the “strong” women the media portray in popular fiction today. How do we know she’s a strong woman? The first cue is she communicates in an overt, information centered, masculine manner.

You don’t need to be psychic to understand women’s covert communication, you need to be observant. This often requires a patience that most men simply don’t have, so they write women off as duplicitous, fickle or conniving if the name fits. Even to the Men that are observant enough, and take the needed mental notes to really see it going on around them, it seems very inefficient and irrational. And why wouldn’t it? We’re Men. Our communications are (generally) information based, deductive and rational, that’s Men’s overt communication. Blunt, to the point, solve the problem and move on to the next. Feminine communication seems insane, it is a highly dysfunctional form of communication….,to be more specific, it’s a childish form of communication. This is what children do! They say one thing and do another. they throw temper tantrums. They react emotionally to everything. Yes, they do. And more often than not, they get what they’re really after — attention. Women are crazy, but it’s a calculated crazy.

Covert communication frustrates us every bit as much as overt communication frustrates women. Our language has no art to it for them, that’s why we seem dumb or simple at best to women. We filter for information to work from, not the subtle details that make communication enjoyable for women. This is the same reason we think of feminine communication as being obfuscating, confusing, even random. The difference is that our confusion and frustration is put to their ultimate use. So long as women remain unknowable, random, irrational creatures that men can’t hope to understand (but can always excuse), they can operate unhindered towards their goals. “Silly boy, you’ll never understand women, just give up” is exactly the M.O. Once you accept this, she’s earned a lifetime of get-out-of-jail-free cards. The myth of the ‘Feminine Mystique’ and a woman’s prerogative (to change her mind) is entirely dependent upon this covert communication.

Now as Men we’ll say, “Evil, immoral, manipulative woman! Shape up and do the right thing, saying one thing then doing another makes you a hypocrite!” and of course this is our rational nature overtly making itself heard and exposing a woman’s covert communication. An appeal to morality, that’ll get her, but,..it doesn’t.

This is because women instinctively know that their sexuality is their first, best agency, and covert communication is the best method to utilize it. Appeals to morality only work in her favor, because all she need do is agree with a Man’s overt assessment of her and suddenly he thinks he’s ‘getting through to her’. As Men, we have become so conditioned by the Feminine Mystique to expect a woman to be duplicitous with us that when she suddenly leans into masculine communication forms and resorts to our own, overt communication method and agrees with us, it seems she’s had an epiphany, or a moment of clarity. “Wow, this one’s really special, ‘high quality’, and seems to get it.” That is, so long as it suits her conditions to do so. When it doesn’t, the Feminine Mystique is there to explain it all away.

Have you ever been in a social setting, maybe a party or something, with a girlfriend or even a woman you may be dating and seemingly out of the blue she says to you privately, “ooh, did you see the dirty look that bitch just gave me?!” You were right there in her physical presence, saw the girl she was talking about, yet didn’t register a thing. Women’s natural preference for covert communication is recognizable by as early as five years old. They prefer to fight in the psychological, whereas boys fight in the physical.

Within their own peer group, little girls fight for dominance with the threat of ostracization from the group. “I wont be your friend anymore if,..” is just as much a threat to a girl as “I’m gonna punch you in the face if,..” is to a boy. This dynamic becomes much more complex as girls enter puberty, adolescence and adulthood, yet they still use the same psychological mode of combat as adults. Their covert way of communicating this using innuendo, body language, appearance, sub-communications, gestures, etc. conveys far more information than our overt, all on the table, way of communicating does. It may seem more efficient to us as Men, but our method doesn’t satisfy the same purpose.

Women enjoy the communication more than the information being transferred. It’s not a problem to be solved, it’s the communication that’s primary. When a chump supplies her with everything all at once we think, yeah, the mystery is gone, he’s not a challenge anymore, why would she be interested? This is true, but the reason that intrigue is gone is because there’s no more potential for stimulating that need for communication or her imagination. Too many men buy into the lie that ‘open communication’ is the key to a good relationship and do an ‘information dump’ believing their wives or girlfriends will appreciate it. In doing so a man denies his woman the satisfaction of communicating in teasing out the information.

Nothing is more self-satisfying for a woman than for her to believe she’s figured a man out by using her mythical ‘feminine intuition’. This intuition is really just a name given to her preferred form of communication.

Lastly, I should add that women are not above using overt communication when it serves their purposes. When a woman comes out and says something in such a fashion so as to leave no margin for misinterpretation, you can bet she’s been pushed to that point out of either fear or sheer exasperation when her covert methods wont work.

“Can’t we just be friends?” is a covert rejection, “Get away from me you creep!!” is an overt rejection. When a woman opts for the overt, rest assured, she’s out of covert ideas and knows she must use men’s form of communication. This is an easy example of this, but when a woman cries on you, screams at you, or issues an ultimatum to you she is self-acknowledging that she is powerless to the point of having to come over to your way of communicating.

Likewise, men can and do master the art of covert communications as well. Great politicians, military generals, businessmen, salesmen to be sure, and of course master pickup artists all use covert communications to achieve their goals. It’s incorrect to think of covert communication as inherently dishonest or amoral, or even in a moral context. It’s a means to an end, just as overt communication is a means to an end, and that end whether decided by men or women is what’s ethical or unethical. The medium is the message.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

331 comments on “The Medium is the Message

  1. https://therationalmale.com/2017/01/25/the-reconstruction-iii/comment-page-3/#comment-187640

    What exactly were the qualities that people most wanted in their intimate partners?

    WHAT DO MEN AND WOMEN REALLY WANT? A SURVEY

    Virtually every woman agreed that foremost among the qualities they wanted in their man were:

    1. Presence
    2. Intelligence
    3. Strength
    4. Passion
    5. Direction
    6. Humor

    Did the men want the same qualities in their women?

    No. In fact, in two different cities, the men made lists that began like this:

    1. Great in bed
    2. Great in bed
    3. Great in bed

    After I reminded them that they had to choose six different qualities, they laughed and rewrote their list.

    The qualities that men across the country wanted most in their women were:

    1. Beauty
    2. Sexual openness
    3. Trust of their (man’s) direction
    4. Support for their (man’s) vision
    5. Intelligence
    6. Healthy radiance

  2. 1. Presence

    The number one thing women want from their man is “Communication”. It doesn’t have to be overt communication. Only manipulative women think that. (Show me your cards little Beta….)

    Once a woman has tested the male, and is relatively sure that he is strong enough to serve her purposes, her concern begins to revolve around making the man serve her exclusively. Many men who are relatively strong and pass the tests of the first stage, fail to understand the meaning of this second stage. This stage is extremely difficult for the average man to detect. It is instinctually and often unconsciously masked by the woman as a purely innocent attempt to “communicate” with the male.

    It is a feature of the feminine psyche to appreciate communication above all else, but from an evolutionary point of view what the female of our species is really doing at this stage is using language to befuddle her partner, which will hopefully cause him to serve her and her purposes.
    This stage is extremely important to the success or failure of couple relationships. Couple therapy fails so frequently because it tends to disregard the real, evolutionary meaning of this stage. A very common pitfall for couples is when the woman starts to feel that the man is displaying an inability or unwillingness to “communicate properly” with the woman. Modem couples therapy almost invariably places the blame for this supposed lack of communication squarely on the man’s shoulders.

    In the first stage, the woman has screened out the weaker males; the man was specifically chosen by the woman for a relationship. In this second stage, the woman acts as if she is seeking deeper communication with the man. A strong man will start to sense that an attempt is being made to weaken him, and he will then usually react with certain predictable behavior patterns. He may get angry or he may withdraw. Arguments that seem to the man to be based on nothing logical at all will often occur at this stage. –from Female Stages of Manipulation in the book Practical Female Psychology.

    Non-manipulating women that admire and respect their man can trust him to communicate with sub-communication. Otherwise know in essence as his Presence. He can sub-communicate his Presence without overtly communicating. Demonstrate, do not explicate

    A woman asking for overt communication is Beta bait. A man demonstrating his Presence via his sub-coms is still communicating efficiently. Beta’s Don’t Just Get that.

  3. Stoic is rolling up his sleeves.

    Tao Te Ching – Lao Tzu – chapter 38

    “A truly good man is not aware of his goodness,
    And is therefore good.
    A foolish man tries to be good,
    And is therefore not good.

    A truly good man does nothing,
    Yet nothing is left undone.
    A foolish man is always doing,
    Yet much remains to be done

    When a truly kind man does something, he leaves nothing undone.
    When a just man does something, he leaves a great deal to be done.
    When a disciplinarian does something and no one responds,
    He rolls up his sleeves in an attempt to enforce order

    Therefore when Tao is lost, there is goodness.
    When goodness is lost, there is kindness.
    When kindness is lost, there is justice.
    When justice is lost, there is ritual.
    Now ritual is the husk of faith and loyalty, the beginning of confusion.
    Knowledge of the future is only a flowery trapping of the Tao.
    It is the beginning of folly.

    Therefore the truly great man dwells on what is real
    and not what is on the surface,
    On the fruit and not the flower,
    Therefore accept the one and reject the other.”

  4. Tao, hmm, right…7 billion people on earth and these guys getting bent out of shape cuse one guy doesn’t agree with them.

    @ Max: You ready to take that red pill sounds like?

    @ SJF: think about it, why is the guy the one resorting to her communication style via game? Its staring you in the face and you don’t want to accept it. Your the one learning game, NOT her. Do you see girls giving a shit and writing books and wasting their lives away trying to figure out how to GAME guys? Lawl

    And you guys missed the main point and the train left the station a while ago. Your game is an illusion, she already has her mind made up about you, go ahead and parrot for her, I’ll have no part of it.

  5. “You guys are in an echo-chamber hug box here on TRM” – yes

    “…because he thinks we are adhering to ideology” – yes

    “…when in actuality we are using praxeology–“what works”–and why the heck would we give up what’s working in real life? What’s the alternative to that? To do what isn’t working for us?” – sure, it works, no denying that – acknowledged the useful of game several times – but it works in the same way that giving a kid a cookie works – he likes you in the moment, who knows what the kid will think about you the next day, only he knows

  6. “…why the heck would we give up what’s working in real life? What’s the alternative to that? To do what isn’t working for us?”

    -yes, never raised kids before huh? You gunna give them everything they want all the time and always enter the kids frame and to make him happy and feel good…? Works quite well if your babysitting, long term your asking for a nightmare.

    The solutions your using are band-aids. You game girls short-term and don’t have any conception of the lifetime investment that the girl requires.

  7. Praxeology is an ideology – just like being a non-conformist is still a person conforming to an idea of not conforming, same thing.

    And as far as praxology goes, I’m not referring to a priori knowledge – referring more to A posteriori knowledge.

  8. @ kfg:

    “Frame can be sub-communicated,this doesn’t make it the same thing as sub-communication.”

    Nor is indirect communication the same thing as sub-cummunication.”

    –Why are you trying to separate them? Trying to come up with neat little boxes of ideas? To the girl they are all the same.

  9. “Do you see girls giving a shit and writing books and wasting their lives away trying to figure out how to GAME guys?”

    https://www.harlequin.com/shop/index.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=-e35HdNq7UY

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/158/158-h/158-h.htm

    http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/celebs/g13451427/hot-guys-2018/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WlqBjKC0C8

    “Why are you trying to separate them?”

    Because they are not the same thing.

    “To the girl they are all the same.”

    No. To girl they are, in fact, more distinct than they are to a man. That is why a man can directly and honestly approach a woman with, “I think you’re hot. Are you DTF?” and she hears, “OMG I think you’re scary. Please don’t hurt me.”

    You keep using words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean. It is no wonder that if you cannot manage direct verbal language you are uncomfortable with indirect language and cannot properly understand non-verbal language.

  10. @ kfg

    Of course you would misrepresent what I’m saying, because my main point has been passed over numerous times.

    A girl ‘gaming’ a guy is a girl being direct and honest with self, leave it to a guy to think it’s the same style of ‘gaming’ that men do with women.

    She lives in her own frame – when your sub-communicating to her, to YOU its a different experience, but she’s been subcomming the whole time consciously. I manage just fine, you’re simply attached hip and leg this idea that ‘frame’ could never possibly mean indirect or subcom.

  11. “When a disciplinarian does something and no one responds,
    He rolls up his sleeves in an attempt to enforce order”

    “Tao, hmm, right…7 billion people on earth and these guys getting bent out of shape cuse one guy doesn’t agree with them.”

    “Wouldn’t ‘covert talk’ just be talking like a girl and becoming more womanly. Why the fuck are we conforming to women’s speak?? To game them? Fuck that shit man. Men should be making women be more direct, fuck this covert gay ass bullshit man. “It’s the only way! Women are DIFFERENT! We have to talk like this to ‘GAME’ them?” – fuck this shit man. This is why men are in the trenches. Because were ALL conforming to womens covert bullshit. I realize its HOW THEY TALK, and I very much like that women are different. But the conversation should be that we should be getting women to be more direct. You hit the nail on the head, when women are direct it seems ‘so profound’ and like ‘shes high quality’ and ‘understand everything’ or whatever, but the fact remains that speaking covert is to already enter her frame. The reason cunts call the police on men is cuse men are TOO direct and open and forcing her to be, sure it’ll get your ass arrested, but at least you won’t be acting like a fucking woman.”

    Not bent out of shape,just trying to help.

  12. @ boulderhead: yeah for the most part but not always, just like when a kid has to confess to stealing a cookie from the cookie jar – at first he’s gunna lie about it, but if you pressure him he’ll confess

  13. @ stoic

    Nobody’s getting bent out of shape because you disagree. It’s the manner in which you communicate your thoughts, and then fact that much of what you are saying is demonstrably false, or you’ve misunderstood many things….but are convinced of the opposite.

    Game, is a very real thing. Game, is not solely about women in any manner. Game works on women because biology and culture. Game that is not internalized is not true game. No serious man ” uses ” game ” on ” women as some kind of lifetime commitment to dwell in a female’s frame. Quite the contrary is true.

    Your mindset influences your sub-comms heavily. If game influences your mindset, this will be sub-communicated. A strong frame is internal as well. It may or may not be sub-commumicated. None of this is done directly for the benefit of women per se, yet women can benefit via association. And they will choose to associate 90% of the time. Because nature/biology.

    Long story short, it’s not about them as much as it is about your particular level of understanding of them. If you understand them, you won’t helplessly enter their frame for any logical reason.

    The tools you don’t understand, are the very things that will prevent all of the horrors of women that you seem to be concerned about from coming to negative fruition.

  14. Children wanna be adults, women want to be men, and men want to be God.

    Why you think women obsessed with children, and they ‘love’ kids so much yada yada yada…sure, it’s cuse girls are nurturing, but the subconscious reason is because they actually learn from children’s behavior. For example take men, breaking down ALL of the psychology behind women, in order to do what? To control them, to fuck them, to be better mates, etc.

    The real truth of the matter is girls want to be like men (not literally, but almost), they want that power men have, they want to do the things men do, act the way men act.

    Similar to how men want to be like little ‘gods’ of men; men want to ‘know’ everything, do everything, they have ‘great’ ideas and want to change the world, blah blah blah. But men subconsciously can’t do that unless they understand women also, but learning and discovering how to best deal with women, men learn about themselves in the process.

    The same thing is true with women, they learn about themselves via children and to ‘act’ and manage. Unfortunately there’s not ‘alot’ of learning going on, but most would like to think so, but subconsciously they learn a lot from children and they desire to learn from children.

    Ultimately girls envy men the same way men envy ‘God’ – they want the power which the other possesses.

    Its simply a hierarchy – children want to be like their older siblings, teenagers want to be like the older cool kids, older kids want to be adults, women want to be like men, men want to be like ‘gods’.

    It’s not difficult to see that girls want to be like men, just look at feminism, look at ‘penis-envy’ – why you think girls are so damn attracted to ‘fake alpha’ traits? It’s because they desperately need Yang energy. But girls learn about their solipsism via way of children – children (babies) are indeed the most solipsistic little creatures around. Ultimately though women envy men, they subconsciously wish they had the same luxury’s which men flaunt on a daily basis. Does that mean we make girls like men? Fuck no, feminism has tried that shit and it has failed miserably. No, by direct I’m referring more to the notion of appealing to women’s subjectivity and making her less subjective.

    Women = solipsistic ok, solipsism = subjectivity.

    For ‘women to be like women” – would simply mean for women to allow women to stay in their subjective lala-land – neither women nor men really desire this.

    Men = objective (but not 100%) – but really men’s goal should be making the subjective woman see the error of her ways. For men to enter her frame (which honestly is basically every interaction with a girl) is for men to submit to her relative world – most men don’t know how to do that – they think like your average PUA does, that playing aorund with her and living in her subjective frame IS what you are SUPPOSE to do – when they miss the point altogether which is you ONLY enter that frame in order to bring her out of it.

    What you guys are agreeing to with gaming her is in effect keeping her in her subjective little world. There is no balance to be had their, she hasn’t submitted to your authority – you think she has, but that one night stand is an actual submission.

    A girls subjectivity is like a fish in water – bring her out of the water to see dry land – your never going to ever make her 100% objective. Even men aren’t 100% objective – but guess what, men want to be 100% objective, which is why they strive after a God. But men don’t need to go into the water with the fish – he’ll drown, there’s no point for him to be down their, he needs only to bring her out and see what she’s missing. But you won’t ever make girls 100% objective – just like men won’t ever become god(s). But to game a girl is only useful to pull her out of the water – you keep going down into her reality bubble you’ll drown yourself and end the relationship.

    Same thing with girls and children, if she’s CONSTANTLY playing with the child she’s gunna end up locked in child mindset – she needs child interaction, but not constantly.

    So when I say guys need to make girls be direct, I’m implying that she honestly acknowledges her feeling’s instead of resorting to indirect behavior. Instead of makeup, and Facebook, and lying, and even beautification to some degree – she needs to acknowledge with her guy what she’s actually feeling and not to cover it up basically, but there’s obviously more to it than that.

  15. “A girl ‘gaming’ a guy is a girl being direct and honest with self . . .”

    You have divorced yourself from empirical reality by wish fulfillment definition and appear to be about a blink and a half away from going full Elliot Rodger.

    NEVER go full Elliot Rodger.

    ” . . . leave it to a guy to think it’s the same style of ‘gaming’ that men do with women.””

    And also appear to be experiencing a divorce from reality by rectal cranial inversion.

    I commend you, dear Brother, and entrust you to your Creator.

  16. ‘…that one night stand ISNT an actual submission.”* – mis-type – point is that it USE to be a form of actual submission – after all having sex is about as DIRECT as it gets, but if neither person verbalizes and acknowledges the actual interest, you end up leaving the girl in her subjective lala-land for her to decide how she ‘feels’ about it. That’s not what mena re suppose to be doing. They are suppose to be getting women to verbalize what they are actually doing and how they are actually acting. It’s not JUST verbalization though, it’s a culmination of things. Game sort of teaches this, but not entirely. Game gets locked in her frame.

  17. The real truth of the matter is girls want to be like men (not literally, but almost), they want that power men have, they want to do the things men do, act the way men act.

    Girls want to be claimed, possessed, cared for, made tingly. You’ve mistaken a fitness test for the desire; that mistake percolates out in the rest of your text.

  18. @ Blaximus

    “Long story short, it’s not about them as much as it is about your particular level of understanding of them. If you understand them, you won’t helplessly enter their frame for any logical reason.”

    Well said, agreed. Generally speaking though any interaction is entering her frame, she knows no other reality – she may perceive YOUR frame to be one thing , but she won’t ever see it as anything other than what she perceives it to be on a relative basis.

  19. @ SJB

    “Girls want to be claimed, possessed, cared for, made tingly.”

    – so do children, EVRRYONE just wants to FEEL GOOD riiiiight? Again, go and raise kids and see if that strategy works with them. If your just nice to your kid all the time he’s gunna turn out fucked up, almost guaranteed.

  20. I’m not saying you can’t make a girl feel good, but you can’t think you can do it ALL of the time. And in THIS CURRENT society, she DOESNT need to be made to FEEL any better. She already has enough GOOD fuckin feelings to last 10 lifetimes over. Your missing the point altogether. She doesn’t need your good fuckin feelings, why you think girls are soooo fuckin slutty and drawn to ‘fake alphas’ and badboys. She WANTS to be fuckin told what to do. You entering her frame (even as an act of a badboy) isn’t telling her real true reality, it’s playing along to make her FEEL GOOD for a one night lay. Thats a flawed premise to live off of and use on girls.

  21. You wanna know what she needs to hear? Most girls need to be slut shamed more, told they are a uckin whore, told the truth. And clearly most of you ‘pua’s’ and ‘badboys’ and ‘fake alpha’s need to hear the same thing to get it through youre egotism. If you fuck a girl you’ve made a slut out of her, if she whores around, if she tells me who many dicks shes sucked the truth is she’s a slut, plain and simple, and I have no problem telling her that. But, no, ALL of you PUA’s and fake alphas out there want to find more ways to make her ‘feel good’ and how best to get laid to get your little dicks wet. Flawed premise. Again, for the record, GAME is ‘good’ generally speaking, BUT too much game and constantly trying to enter her frame is superfluous. Better to learn about your own morality and virtue before ever bothering to fuck around with a wlaking std waste of time. Again, I love girls ok, but you do them ALL a dis-service if you don’t make them be open and honest with themselves. Just like you do your kids a dis-service if you don’t discipline them.

  22. so do children, EVRRYONE just wants to FEEL GOOD riiiiight? Again, go and raise kids and see if that strategy works with them. If your just nice to your kid all the time he’s gunna turn out fucked up, almost guaranteed.

    The generalization does not really work: feeling good is a sloppy term stemming from self-esteem propaganda. Having a female almost begging you to possess her is not because she wants to “feel good.” It is her bodily articulation of her limbic response to strength.

  23. Praxeology is an ideology

    Categorically false.

    Praxeology (/ˌpræksiˈɒlədʒi/; from Ancient Greek πρᾶξις (praxis), meaning ‘deed, action’, and -λογία (-logia), meaning ‘study of’) is the deductive study of human action, based on the notion that humans engage in purposeful behavior, as opposed to reflexive behavior like sneezing and inanimate behavior.[1] According to its theorists, with the action axiom as the starting point, it is possible to draw conclusions about human behavior that are both objective and universal. For example, the notion that humans engage in acts of choice implies that they have preferences, and this must be true for anyone who exhibits intentional behavior.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology

  24. @Stoic

    You have already run the PUA’s out of the discussion. The guys that are still responding to your rant consist of one that is old enough to be your grandpa,Two Alpha family men with children ,one with grandchildren, Two lesser alpha men that are married and successfully raised children.

    No big deal but you are shooting your mouth off to more experienced men.

  25. Stoic101
    Why you think women obsessed with children, and they ‘love’ kids so much yada yada yada…sure, it’s cuse girls are nurturing, but the subconscious reason is because they actually learn from children’s behavior.

    Women are designed [*] to bear children and care for them. They don’t learn from children’s behavior. Even the dumbest blank-slate drooler wouldn’t be so stupid as to write that.

    [*] Not gonna play the “origins” game. Don’t care how we humans got here, it is obvious that women’s bodies and brains are tuned tightly to the childbearing / caring function.

  26. Women have the capacity to be more nurturing Wrt to children. Even though that capacity is driven biologically, as we’ve all witnessed of late, society/environment can change that capacity by degrees, in some cases rendering it practically undetectable. ” nurturing ” is slowly being stamped out in our culture.

    To the point of women being whores because they’ve engaged in sexual activity, I object your honor. Hostile witness.

  27. @ boulderhead

    As if age really matters, the guy whose an asshole idiot when he was young won’t change much in 20-30 yrs, so your ‘experience’ is a non-sequitur – any idiot can get a girl pregnant and have kids, I can only imagine what your kids turned out to be like if your an old ass man sitting on this website; i.e. nothing better to do. Clearly no one here except the host has any new ideas to bring to the table, one big ego jerk-off-fest.

  28. @ Rollo

    Lawl wtf? One of these guys who has to ALWAYS be “definitionally sound” in everything he does? Do you ever think abstractly or do you feel the need to put everything in neat little boxes all of the time?

    For the record praxeology is in fact an ideology – anything can be considered an ideology.

    From your beloved Wiki: “Ideology is a comprehensive set of normative beliefs, conscious and unconscious ideas, that an individual, group or society has.”

    “[Praxeology]…is the deductive study of human action, based on the notion that humans engage in purposeful behavior, as opposed to reflexive behavior like sneezing and inanimate behavior.”

    How blind do you have to be to not see that both of those are one in the same and related?

    IDEOLOGY is a set of BELIEFS, CONSCIOUS or UNCONSCIOUS IDEAS, THAT AN INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP HAS….Praxeology is the STUDY of human action…Praxeology IS A BELIEF, you guys, Rollo especially, is fuckin consumed his reality with useless semantics. You could NEVER STUDY human action if you didn’t BELIEVE it, thus an ideology, so not categorically false in the slightest, you might want to start rethinking your obsession with definitions. No wonder pc culture is owning men, you probably think a ‘Progressive” liberal is really creating actual “Progress” in society also don’t you?

  29. @Stoic

    Age doesn’t matter, it is experience that counts, being able to maintain an LTR in this day and age, while raising children to be responsible adults, takes some effort. A negative disrespectfull attitude is exclusive.

    Personally I like to check in between tasks that I have set for myself mainly for the shared wisdom and the entertainment value such as you provide..

    You are talking out your ass, because in person your mouth would know better.

  30. @ Rollo

    Just read the words in caps and it will all make sense for you.

    “IDEOLOGY IS A comprehensive SET OF normative beliefs, conscious and unconscious IDEAS, THAT AN INDIVIDUAL, group or society HAS.” – Ideology is a set of ideas that an individual has…there you have it, a definition I didn’t make up, it came straight from Wiki so we all know its 100% truth right? An ideology is an idea, how much more black and white do you need it spelled out?

    If an ideology is simply an idea, than what is a praxeology – Praxeology is the deductive STUDY of human action…how could you ever STUDY something without believing anything? You couldn’t. Sure some guy on here will say…but but but YES YOU CAN! – “I don’t have to believe in what I’m studying!” someone will cry out…zzz….thats not the implication. The implication is that an ideology is simply an idea, to use praxeology is to use an ideology. Anything can be considered an ideology. It’s not even worth debating it’s so obvious.

    I suggest you abandon deductive logic and use more inductive logic, clearly reading between the lines is frightening to you, and most men for that matter. No wonder men feel they ‘need’ game; can’t read between the lines.

  31. @ boulderhead

    Agreed LTR tough to maintain in this day and age, but if you started 30 years ago you have it easy as pie as compared to the generation of today.

  32. @ Anonymous Reader

    “Women are designed [*] to bear children and care for them. They don’t learn from children’s behavior. Even the dumbest blank-slate drooler wouldn’t be so stupid as to write that.”

    Apparently you see what you only want to see.The metaphor (which you didn’t catch it by the way) was that: children want to be like adults, women want to be like men, and men want to be like God.

    And again as a side note, this whole group here suffers from an impairment of inductive logic, no one seems to know how to extrapolate a meaning form symbolism, allegory, metaphor, you’r all so thick skulled no wonder you need a website how to tell you exactly what to do with girls. But thats besides the point.

    The point is the allegory which Anonymous missed; children want to be like adults, women want to be like men, and men want to be like God – all on a subconscious level of course. BUT wait there’s more, essentially what I was saying was men learn about women to learn about thmselves…OBVIOUSLY we do right?? DUH, were all on here learning from Rollo’s life experience on how to be better men to interact with girls, obviously. So, my point was, if we know THAT much is true, than using that line of logic we can apply the same thing to women and the next step down in the food chain; children. If we know men study women to be better men, than why do you lthik women love to be around kids? – It’s to study them subconsciously, but also somewhat conscious I believe. They want to be better women, they believe they need to interact with children to do so, for the same reason that men believe they need to interact with girls to be ‘better’ men and learn about themselves. So Anyonymous, yes, women learn from kids, girls are in fact that fuckin retarded, sorry to disappoint you bro, red pill hurts.

  33. Stoic101
    @ Rollo

    Lawl wtf? One of these guys who has to ALWAYS be “definitionally sound” in everything he does?

    Strawman.

    Do you ever think abstractly or do you feel the need to put everything in neat little boxes all of the time?

    Strawman.

    For the record praxeology is in fact an ideology – anything can be considered an ideology.

    Redefining common words to suit current claim.

    From your beloved Wiki:

    Passive-aggressive. Slightly girlish.

    “Ideology is a comprehensive set of normative beliefs, conscious and unconscious ideas, that an individual, group or society has.”

    “[Praxeology]…is the deductive study of human action, based on the notion that humans engage in purposeful behavior, as opposed to reflexive behavior like sneezing and inanimate behavior.”

    How blind do you have to be to not see that both of those are one in the same and related?

    Redefining common words. Uses RANDOM capitalization to MAKE a POINT.
    Also ignores most replies, refuses to actually debate, low level namecalling.

    Conclusion:
    Timewasting attention-whore troll.
    Purpose: to jam up the site with pointless bullshit while basking in attention.

    Just pointing out the obvious.

  34. @ SJB

    “so do children, EVRRYONE just wants to FEEL GOOD riiiiight? Again, go and raise kids and see if that strategy works with them. If your just nice to your kid all the time he’s gunna turn out fucked up, almost guaranteed.

    The generalization does not really work: feeling good is a sloppy term stemming from self-esteem propaganda. Having a female almost begging you to possess her is not because she wants to “feel good.” It is her bodily articulation of her limbic response to strength.”

    You missed the sarcasm:

    “EVRRYONE just wants to FEEL GOOD riiiiight?” – not being serious, sacastic, I’m completly opposed to hedonism

    I’ll just be as literal as possible from now on cuse this group doesn’t know how to use inductive logic in the slightest. I think most the guys here actually could benefit from teaching a little classroom full of children for a few years. Every guy here is so oblivious to implications i’t embarrassing. Want everything spelled out as literal as possible. Actually forget teaching kids, you guys wouldn’t grasp how large groups of kids interact on a daily and then realize how girls are similar. Maybe oyu would, but doesn’t osund like most of you would do that shit. Instead go read some Ludwig Wittgenstein – maybe read his Tractatus. This group is incredibly frustrating. “I need A, B, and C spelled out for me literally or I won’t understand shit that your saying and I’ll just mock you cuse I’m too retarded to use inductive reasoning and draw basic conclusions together.” Painful. Burden of proofs on me but no one seems to no be able to logically defend themselves, they’de rather attack, so whatever.

  35. @ Anonymous Reader

    That’d be you, I see you post on every fuckin page suckin every readers dick. You gunna present any ideas on frame or you just gunna sit there and bitch all day? I think your just gunna bitch all day.

  36. Stoic101
    That’d be you, I see you post on every fuckin page suckin every readers dick. You gunna present any ideas on frame or you just gunna sit there and bitch all day? I think your just gunna bitch all day.

    Q.E.D.

  37. Re: Old ass man sitting on this website. * raises hand * Guilty as charged.

    Father of 2. 32 and 17 respectively. Stepdad to 1 29 year old, Godfather to an even dozen, 12-29. All female. I qualify for AARP, so I’m officially ” old “.

    Personally I come to this sight to learn and think.

    Kids turned out just fine. I raised them as a red pilled Dad before realizing that was what I was doing.

    Never observed my girl’s mothers learning from them as children. In fact, I observed the exact opposite.

  38. @ Anonymous Reader

    So fuckin butthurt, come up with some pov of your own instead of differing to Rollo, fuckin zealot. If you feel the need to defend your master go right ahead, “Oh, strawman, strawman” – lawl. Come up with some ideas or stfu, annoying ass cunt.

  39. children want to be like adults, women want to be like men, and men want to be like God

    That’s still pretty mushy; try: children want to be autonomous as they observe adults to be; women want to feel confident like the men to whom they are attracted; men want to create ex nihilo–ideation free of the burden of performance.

  40. @Stoic wanabee 1or1

    I always first look at anger as the manifestation of unmet expectations, in fact it can become an addiction the person that harbors anger gets a certain feeling of power a sense of superiority. This releases chemicals in the brain causing a physiological addiction to go along with the psychological addiction that causes the deviation from normal in the first place.

    What this does is sets one up for victim status, everything in their life becomes someone else fault. At this point of stifled growth, they get stuck in a cycle between self loathing and anger at the world.. i like what JP said “sure your brothers an idiot, he is just as stupid as you are.”

    The question is do you want to be right all the time or be happy. 7 billion people in the world and they all need to change to fit your perspective, if that was even possible we would all be fucked. A bottoms up approach is the only way out of the maelstrom, first clean up your messes, let every other person worry about their own. Do something for someone anonymously with no thought of reciprocation. You will begin to feel better. Learn a trade master a skill get out of your head.

  41. @ SJB

    Yeah, but are’nt we still observing and learning from the said ‘superior’? How is it a kid wants to be autonomous? From whats I can tell kid’s want to act like their older brother or sister or even their parents. Point being I don’t know why you think kids wanna do their own thing? Not only are they reliant upon their family but their entire persona’s are crafted and molded by the family.

  42. Observation is just observation. You have hit the right note in being up “act”: action conforming to the imperative of survival may be an indication of learning — operant conditioning at the least.

  43. “Conclusion:
    Time-wasting attention-whore troll.”

    Pretty, pretty close to spam.

    I can’t imaging walking into a group of guys in real life, guys that have been hanging out as a tribe for a long, long time and share a common interest, with a host that has a brand of the Red Pill, developed over 15 years– and then, talking like that. Trying to redefine how that tribe thinks in the space of a week. Without having done any background study on what the beliefs of the tribe are. I find that unfathomable as to what the end goal is, except to whine and cry and bitch and buffer and seek retribution for past wrongs.

    And then complaining about being talked about with ad hominems, while slinging them left and right.

    Who are all these ‘pua’s’ and ‘badboys’ and ‘fake alpha’s that Stoic is referring to? They are just figments of his shitty strawman logic? A couple more weak swings of the bat and I’d strike him out as using incorrigible Spamming.

    I thought it might be worth debating with him, as I was figuring he was a man, but he’s worse that a girl. Refuses to investigate what we are actually discussing, makes shit up and is indignant when making no intellectual traction at all when speaking to the group. (Well maybe a pinch from a confused and unsure-of-himself commenter.)

    BTW, what is your Frame of Reference Stoic? Who are you, what have you done. Why are you so bitter. What do you want to accomplish besides changing the World and the Reality that you live in. How you going to do that? If you can’t do that, what is your Plan B?

    How old are you? Do you have children? How was your childhood? How was your adulthood? How is your current relationship with women? You obviously hate women. Most of us don’t. How’s that working out now and in the future for you? What are your plans for and with woman? To avoid them because they are all whores? To go in search of a madonna/unicorn as long as it takes?

    If you are not happy with this television station, you can turn it off, rather than weakly attempt to control the flow of ideas. It sure seems you are on the outside looking in. And you have some weird to us ideas. Good luck with those, but don’t try to convince us otherwise.

    The worse offense at all: He has no comprehension or resonance with the original post–The Medium is the Message. Which is based on an age old adage. (the older some thought is, the more validity it carries…)

  44. @ SJB

    Right, ok, maybe, so what are you implying then? How does what you said make them want to be autonomous, sounds like an argument against such.

  45. “So fuckin butthurt, come up with some pov of your own instead of differing to Rollo, fuckin zealot. If you feel the need to defend your master go right ahead, “Oh, strawman, strawman” – lawl. Come up with some ideas or stfu, annoying ass cunt.”

    You spelled deferring wrong. And you for got to capitalize STFU. And you actually did use a Strawman fallacy in the first three words (wait, or was that an ad hominem?).

  46. @ boulderhead

    Stoicism doesn’t equal passionless, just one example to get you off my back is Musonius Rufus – said to be incredibly happy most of the time. A stoic is just indifferent and treats things as they should be treated. If you’re being an idiot I’ll treat you accordingly, if youre being nice I’ll do the same – everything has it’s worth and due.

  47. Right, ok, maybe, so what are you implying then?

    As I pointed out prior, you’d confused the desire (“I want to be autonomous”) with the fitness test (“Are you ready for me to be autonomous? Am I ready to be autonomous?”)

  48. Stoic not

    So you are claiming to be incredibly happy? Get real! You can fool some of the people some of the time, your bullshit bucket holds no water here.

    You are a miserable fuck,that thinks making other people miserable gives you power. A lazy weakling,with not enough power to move his own ass and needs to ride piggy back all the time.

  49. “your not even worth replying to anymore – /squelched”

    Thank you. I was hoping you would say that.

    And you spelled ‘you’re’ wrong Mr. Spam Master.

  50. @ boulderhead

    Right back at your bitch, what have you contributed to the discussion? I’m the one putting people down? Go to hell motherfucker, go reread my shit before you shoot your mouth off –
    I’ve become defensive and profane cuse you all are fuckin assholes who don’t contribute fuck to a discussion and would rather insult and mock instead of asking questions – so shut the fuck up

    @ boulderhead

    waste of life – /squelched

  51. “That’s quite a stare on that pussy cat.”

    Canadian county OK, I’ve seen guys imitate that stare to look innocent,hard to tell what is rolling in her squirrel cage.

  52. “Actually fuck this website – dick-suck-a-thon – gl out there ladies.”

    OK Goodbye!

    Stoic’s suggested solutions to women behaving badly (and women telegraphing it with The Medium is the Message) is to re-frame the body of work of Rollo’s TRM into a guys-should-have-it-easier with girls issue using a logic so preposterously adolescent that if you laid this on your Dad when you were 16 he’d backhand slap you right out of the Glee Club.

    (Hey, I stole/adapted that from a The Last Psychiatrist’s blog statement in his essay Who Bullies the Bullies?)

  53. I had to come back for one more lawl

    Here you go SJF – I’m gunna do to you what you did to me the WHOLE time – because as far as I can tell you simply attack – and then you get butthurt – and then you attack more – and then you get even more butthurt – ouch – poor baby – at any point did you actually try to discuss any of the questions I poised? Maybe you tried, but it hurt your ego and brain and so you shut down – like a girl – and you resorted to attacks – go back and reread my friends – -look at SFJ being butthurt – he’s in constant rage mode – he can’t comprehend anything so he has to resort to attacks – all I did was provide you assholes with some insights and you all got butthurt – what a shame. This was such a funny laugh – cuse you guys act just like some of the girls I know – they can’t comprehend what’s being said so they shut down and resort to attacks – want proof of your echo chamber, here it is ladies, just for you: SMILES 😀

    SJF:

    “I can’t imaging walking into a group of guys in real life, guys that have been hanging out as a tribe for a long, long time and share a common interest, with a host that has a brand of the Red Pill, developed over 15 years– and then, talking like that.”

    – You don’t speak your mind to people? Hmm…you must be a bitch, no surprise there.

    “…Trying to redefine how that tribe thinks in the space of a week….”

    -Awww, poor baby doesn’t want to change her mind, how adorable. So cute.

    “…Without having done any background study on what the beliefs of the tribe are…”

    -Lawl, all I can say is lawl, it’s almost too funny I wouldn’t even know where to begin. Been readin this shit for years bitch, what? You gunna tell me what I ate for breakfast too? Dumbass argument to make, shows your intelligence right off the bat…assuming what I have and haven’t done in my life…in the MATTER OF A WEEK NO LESS! LAWL

    “…I find that unfathomable as to what the end goal is, except to whine and cry and bitch and buffer and seek retribution for past wrongs….”

    -End game is to educate, to learn, to grow, something you don’t have a fucking clue about, again, you made no suggestions at all, simply bitched the whole time. I’ve odne more in a week than you’ve done in your 15 yrs here. How many bj’s you give Rollo? And you use the liberal fallacy really well too btw – way to deflect your own pain at me as if I’m the one doing it: “He’s bitching and crying” – uhhh, no, thats what your doing, lawl – -fuckin laughable as a motherfucker.

    “…And then complaining about being talked about with ad hominems, while slinging them left and right….”

    -You’ll notice I didn’t ad hominem anyone messaging until they did it first, go back and reread cunt.

    “…Who are all these ‘pua’s’ and ‘badboys’ and ‘fake alpha’s that Stoic is referring to?…”

    -Uhhh, isn’t it fuckin obvious? Anyone reading this blog, again, another dumbshit question.

    “…They are just figments of his shitty strawman logic? A couple more weak swings of the bat and I’d strike him out as using incorrigible Spamming….”

    -lawl

    “…I thought it might be worth debating with him, as I was figuring he was a man, but he’s worse that a girl. Refuses to investigate what we are actually discussing, makes shit up and is indignant when making no intellectual traction at all when speaking to the group. (Well maybe a pinch from a confused and unsure-of-himself commenter.)…”

    -Lawl lawl lawl – you couldn’t debate me, fuck you can’t even debate a girl – again you use the liberal fallacy well, just flip everything your doing onto me with no proof otherwise – lawl – Refuses to investigate??? Again are you a mind reader? How do you know what I have and have not read??? LAWL

    “…BTW, what is your Frame of Reference Stoic? Who are you, what have you done. Why are you so bitter. What do you want to accomplish besides changing the World and the Reality that you live in. How you going to do that? If you can’t do that, what is your Plan B? How old are you? Do you have children? How was your childhood? How was your adulthood? How is your current relationship with women? You obviously hate women. Most of us don’t. How’s that working out now and in the future for you? What are your plans for and with woman? To avoid them because they are all whores? To go in search of a madonna/unicorn as long as it takes?…”

    -Why the fuck would I tell you???? So you can simply insult and attack more? OHHH NOW you want a frame of reference ABOUT me! Oh HOW NICE OF YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ASKING!? psshhh…dumb bitch, go to hell.

    “…If you are not happy with this television station, you can turn it off, rather than weakly attempt to control the flow of ideas. It sure seems you are on the outside looking in. And you have some weird to us ideas. Good luck with those, but don’t try to convince us otherwise…”

    -Oh don’t worry, I won’t bother. I’m sorry, are you Rollo? Rollo made this website right? Are you his dick suck servant bitch? I think you are. Or…….here’s an idea – AHH you’re gunna like this – I think some of these ‘people’ are actually ROLLO – lawl – how many accounts you got goin Rollo? Gotta keep the message boards active right my man? Can’t afford to give your op ion for everything I say, but you’ll have your little faggots do it for you, or maybe your SFJ – who knows, who gives a shit, Rollo think’s he already understands everything anyways.

    “…The worse offense at all: He has no comprehension or resonance with the original post–The Medium is the Message. Which is based on an age old adage. (the older some thought is, the more validity it carries…)”

    LALWLWL – Go back and reread again faggot – mentioned several times how everyone was getting off track – but you already know that – YOU being the MAIN deflector of actual thoughts on here – ha, oh man – what a faggot ‘tribe’ you’ve made Rollo – they would’ve been legit, except they couldnt take your dick out of their assholes. You guys have gay cyber sex together?

    “And you have some weird to us ideas. Good luck with those, but don’t try to convince us otherwise…”

    – DONT TRY TO CONVINCE YOU? Uhhh O-KAY? Lmfao – so you don’t want discussion? – you only want your echo chamber dick suck gay buttsex messages – well, have fun with that faggot.

    @ Rollo:

    You need to rename your blog The Irrational Males – godspeed homo fucks.

  54. Man – I LOVE SJF’s last reply:

    “Actually fuck this website – dick-suck-a-thon – gl out there ladies.”

    and HE GOES

    “OK Goodbye!”

    LAWL OMFG man I’m laughing so fuckin hard – you know how many girls txt that exact same shit when I say goodbye!? Like 9 our of 10 girls txt literally the EXACT same thing. “OK GOODBYE” – LAWALWALWALWAL – code for I LOVE YOU

    ahaha – oh my fucking god man – it shows your true beta nature – I say goodbye as a means of drawing you into the drama – and you eat it up hook, line, and sinker. And you end the convo the EXACT same way as a girl whose fuckin horny and can’t wait for my next message…

    “OK GOODBYE!” – lawal holy fuck man – its too funny – I don’t even have words for it – this shit has been fuckin hilarious – to think I was gunna actually get some intellectual convo on here- ahaha, holy fuck – i

    “OK GOODBYE!”

    LAWAL

  55. @stoic you know I wonder what is really wrong with hating someone when that’s a normal human emotion. Why is it that we can’t hate what women have done to society and the men that let it happen? For some reason people thing hate automatically means evil or bad. Why can’t we get mad when we hear stories of women putting men in jail because of child support. Or women divorcing men and taking the majority of their money or even end up killing their boyfriend because he left her. People on this site and also on the reddit redpill subreddit are no different than the beta makes they talk about. If we tell her what she’s doing is wrong and we call her out on it such as flaking out on a date, people will say it is needy and we’re being to emotionally invested and they end up calling you beta, they are giving the girl a pass on everything wrong she has done and say it is your fault. People on that site look at rollo as god too.

  56. I think I see what the issue is (was?) here.

    Stoic isn’t saying Game doesn’t work. He’s saying that he wishes men didn’t use Game because on a society-wide level it would be better, in his mind, if men were the solipsistic ones and “forced women out of their frame” om a wide scale by all guys behaving like Corey.

    OK. Well that’s an interesting perspective I guess but a couple of points.

    First, all men will never be like Corey. It’s axiomatic that most men are beta follower types and not DGAF alpha types (similarly, most men will never learn Game, either, for the same reason). So it will never happen than all men are like Corey. That, in itself, makes the discussion more or less entirely theoretical, because the endgame isn’t possible in the actual real world. You know, based on “objective reality”, and all that.

    Second, and following from point 1, there is therefore no leverage for men to “force women out of their frame” en masse, meaning that men are more or less stuck with things as they are and need to adapt to things as they are rather than trying to recast the entire world.

    Finally, on the individual level, if an individual man isn’t actually Corey, he can’t become Corey without either (1) pretending that he is Corey when he in fact is not — in which case he would be not in “objective reality” frame any longer, but in the same place you describe as for regular Game or (2) actually be Corey, in which case the discussion is academic because as Rollo points out, Corey is just being Corey, so yes, if you are a natural like Corey you can be like him without any Game in the conscious fashion — and I would think everyone would agree with that, but it is irrelevant anyway because either you are a natural or you are not, and if you are not, you’re back at (1).

  57. @marsocdevildog1379

    “I wonder what is really wrong with hating someone when that’s a normal human emotion. Why is it that we can’t hate what women have done to society and the men that let it happen?”

    1; What is really wrong with hating someone is, that negative “emotion” is hurting you more than them. To the exact extent that we allow this hate to permeate our thoughts we give our lives to the things we hate. We are actually giving them rent free space in our minds. This is a waste of time and energy that could be better spent improving our own situ.

    2; What women have done to society,is basic human nature, simply trying to get the best deal they can, make their life as easy as possible.

    3; Where are the “men that let it happen”? Who are the men that let it happen? Are they the guys that allowed women to vote or invented hormonal birth control, probably all dead. Are they the hard working men that were to busy making ends meet to pay attention. Can you hate a man for believing a lie,that he got fucked by?

    The world is full of examples of me and women insanely believing things that aren’t truth, they are still promoting lies. Can we change their minds by showing them hate? The change that is remotely possible is from the ground up, changing ourselves, fact finding and sharing in a close knit circle of trusted red pill men. Use your power be it financial or raw talent to boycott the bullshit , turn of the feminised media, don’t buy what they are selling in the ads, refuse feminised movies and cartoons. Men with skill and tallent have the power to do this. We are witnessing them cut their own throats on a daily basis.

  58. Thanks for the interpretation NovaSeeker.

    Truth be told, I felt like feeding that last bolus to the troll because I figured he would get sick and puke it up on the stage. Thanks for doing that Stoic. Yes, I didn’t (past tense) like Stoic for what he was saying because he lacks a fundamental understanding of red pill concepts (he’s very ignorant of them) and he basing his feelings off an anger stage of grief. So some of the arguments that he makes are based on false premises. Even his reasoning based on what women’s hierarchy of love looks like, and how that motivates them.

    Sure Rollo has an exhaustive Red Pill inductive reasoned body of work.

    Here are a couple relatively concise concepts that Stoic was trying to mold into an argument taken from Illimitable Man:

    https://illimitablemen.com/2015/06/01/the-hierarchy-of-love/

    Quote:

    “Women are what they are; your perception of women no matter what that might be is powerless to change their fundamental nature. You can, with the knowledge you have acquired, learn to accept them, or you may, reject them out of unappeasable disappointment predicated on the idea that “woman’s love just isn’t worth it.” We can argue about what is right for society, what is right for your personal situation and all the rest, as many of you like to do, but ultimately this is a personal choice. It is your choice to make, not mine, not anybody else’s. Once you have this information, that choice cannot be taken from you. The answer will be different for every man depending on where he is at in his life’s journey.

    Learning red pill truths exerts incredible impetus on a man to mentally mature and decide what he wants out of women, as well as life. What you want will change with age. A 20-year-old is prone to naively think he’s going to be a bachelor forever. An old divorced man may have resigned himself from what he deems folly. A guy that’s been slaying in bars for the past decade might be worn out and want something with more depth. Thus, as men are prone to do, he returns to the question of how women love, and how he can act on his need to love without effectively destroying himself. The men who do not see a way to love without losing who they are, and what they have gained materially, are the men who reject love.”

    https://illimitablemen.com/understanding-the-red-pill/red-pill-constitution/

    Quote:

    “3.) Women, Logic & Emotional Reasoning:

    Women are irrational and inconsistent, they have a capacity for logic but they are not typically inclined to utilise it. Women must exert concentrated effort to be logical for it is not their factory setting, men on the other hand although imperfect have a far more pronounced affinity for logic. As such by matter of preference if not biology, men are near universally superior logicians and decision makers.

    A logical woman is easily baited into becoming emotional; regardless of intellect, women are more likely to lose lucidity due to a stronger preference for emotive reasoning. It is by extension of this that we observe women to be more easily compromised in a line of reasoning than men. A woman’s decisions are based on her current emotional state, not logic. Once overwhelmed by the feeling of the moment and riding on a tidal wave of emotion, even if an awareness of what is fair and rational remains intact in a woman, she shall opt to ignore it in favour of indulging “what feels right.”

    Ever witness a woman hear something reasonable, and in the indignation of her emotion declare “I don’t care!” before muttering something that makes no sense to anybody but her? This is a prime example of solipsism, the female propensity to “reason” with an inner emotional narrative that is all but impervious to outside influence. As such, women often behave erratically and in contradiction. Women are fickle, so a wise man watches how they behave and disregards what they say.”

  59. As Mersonia just stated in Field Reports: “My life is so much better with women in it….than without”

    Me too. So in the spirit of The Medium is the Message, it is utility to understand what women are like and how they operate. I don’t believe in being angry about how things ought to be. I accept how things are and prefer agency with women and like relationships with them. I even like having interesting woman as friends (as well as: I like having sex with my wife, she’s attractive and interesting). I don’t even take the following passage as being negative about women. I just Accept it as descriptive and it applies to the Medium is the Message.

    https://illimitablemen.com/understanding-the-red-pill/red-pill-constitution/

    25.) Why Women Covet Male Friendship:

    Women want male friends because they’re better company. More interesting, more entertaining, less crazy, less annoying – all of that good stuff. Likewise, they know if they’re pretty they can leverage that into favour whilst giving you nothing, so this is the scam most even moderately pretty women are working.

    Men want to be friends with women because they are stupid and think friendship is the first stepping stone to sex. Women profit from this false belief because men waste time, passion and energy on an endeavour which yields nothing but hassle in return. As such when a man figures out friendship is not the path to getting laid, he ceases to see the point in having female friends.

    Even though a man’s friendship is worth more than a woman’s, women won’t trade sex for it because being likeable doesn’t make you fuckable. Women have the opposite problem, they are fuckable rather than likeable. Men have to work to be fuckable, women have to work to be likeable.

    But a woman is only concerned with her own needs, not yours. Just like men will gladly use up a woman sexually, women will gladly use up men emotionally and financially. A woman is all too happy to devour your time, using you as a source of entertainment and conduit for complaint all whilst giving you nothing in return. This is a bad deal for a man because his company is infinitely higher quality, and thus more valuable than hers. In 99% of cases this means if you’re hanging out with a woman you’re not fucking, you’re getting a bad deal.

    Legitimate female friends, women you find unattractive and are interesting are rare, because most women have no personality. Their personality basic, based on gossip. This is most women; the epitome of boring. Most women never become more than their sexuality because they don’t need to evolve beyond that to be successful. This is why the vast majority of women make no effort to be funny or interesting, and so if you want quality friendship, you look for it among men.

    If you are ever in a situation where you’re stuck with women and bored out of your mind (you will be) the best way to make things interesting is to mock them. The only way women become interesting is if you tease them, call them out and be generally combative. Otherwise you’ll be bored, asking yourself why you’re with a gaggle of women when you’d have more fun reading the world’s least interesting book.

  60. “Stoic isn’t saying Game doesn’t work.”

    I don’t know that anybody thought he was.

    “He’s saying that he wishes men didn’t use Game . . .”

    Because he doesn’t know what game is. He thinks game is what PUAs teach. He doesn’t know that what he is suggesting to do is . . . game. And it would help if he knew what PUAs teach, what Rollo teaches and the differences between them.

    And why.

    “He’s saying that he wishes . . .”

    THAT is the issue here. If wishes were horses then beggars would ride. And he wishes so much that he can’t see around them. They block his view so that his wishes are all that he can see.

    And that’s where the Elliot Rodger vibe comes from. He doesn’t understand that we are not failing to see and understand what he’s talking about. We’ve seen it before and understand it just fine.

    And he also doesn’t understand Wittgenstein.

  61. @boulderhead that’s the problem you think just because I hate some one I have them on my mind and letting them get the best of me. I can dove my own live problems perfectly fine but when the person I hate happens to pop up on tv or around my walking stance I am able to turn the channel or walk away. Hate is actually a useful energy to change things especially yourself for the better. Also just because what women is doing is apart of their nature dosent make it right and acceptable. I will always shame them for what they are doing wrong they call me insecure all they want and if that makes me unattractive to them,well that’s why we have plates right? She’s just one of many. And I doubt the men that allowed this to happen are all hard working and noble did it ever occur to you that they just wanted publicity or they thought it would make women in public or in their personal lives want them more. Most men do dumb shit to get the attention of women right? Well voting was one of those things and feminism was another. Birth control was the only good thing that happened and women barely use that shit.

  62. Hate is useless for grown ass men unless it motivates one to change what he hates. The average guy is incapable of doing this on his own. So continuing to hate is useless and keeps you in someone or something’s frame. Yeah, you lose mentally.

    I don’t like hurricanes and blizzards, but I don’t waste my time hating, lol.

    If you don’t care for how women act in your presence, then change that. If you can’t figure out how to influence how they act/are around you and you settle on hating, you are failing as a man. Do me a favor and don’t take to the streets with an AR15 and hundreds of rounds of ammo. Thanks.

  63. @Blaximus Haa nice joke you think just because someone has a feeling of hate they can’t control it out bursts of anger that’s a different story but hate can be controlled and can be used for your advantage

  64. He doesn’t know that what he is suggesting to do is . . . game.

    Yes, that’s correct.

    Plus, there is no global/societal solution. As you say, we’ve been over this many times already, but it still keeps coming up once or twice a year from someone new. I suppose this is because there are a lot of guys who are “systemic” in the way they look at things, where this is something that doesn’t have a viable systemic solution for various reasons. Again, old territory, but does keep coming up.

  65. Hate consumes a lot of energy. It can be a motive (look at the Nazis), but it generally harms you more than helps you in the long run, despite that. The energy you get back when you stop hating is a huge dividend that you can invest in other self-improvement areas with a more positive attitude, which actually in itself makes your life more pleasant, and therefore better.

  66. @Marsocdevildog1379

    good that you have achieved the amount of self control and mastery to control your emotional outward appearance. What I am suggesting is to take that a step further and control your own mind and thoughts.Stop wasting time, hating is just being a tool for the FI.

    The invention of birth control gave women the ultimate power in reproduction thereby giving them choice in hypergamy. While on the surface it seems like a good thing to stop the population explosion. It was a major turning point to a feminine primary social order.

    The men that still promote womens rights are as you say gyno pleasers trying to get their share. Find out who they are and boycott their stuff, this is one less ticket one less hit one less viewer in the rating one less sale or vote for popularity.

  67. “Definition of hate. 1 a :intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury.”

    I’m not afraid of them, not angry at them for being stupid and was going to get injured someway no matter how or by who.

    Time to end the pity party and get on with life.

  68. boulderhead says –

    What women have done to society,is basic human nature, simply trying to get the best deal they can, make their life as easy as possible.

    Acceptance, on the Kübler-Ross model. Once you get here, you are basically home free. But it can take a while to get that far. A longer trip for some than for others as is regularly seen here.

    I feel like I’m getting close to fleshing out the third bullet point I’ve been looking for (for some reason there must be 3 bullet points), yet it remains just out of reach. Once the third point shows up we’ll have this thing licked. For anyone still reading along, the points are:

    – Almost all our problems stem from failure to say “no” to women (concept attributed to kfg).
    – Who, at the end of the day, are all just girls (concept attributed to Blaximus).
    – And so…

  69. @Marsocdevildog1379

    Hehe the FI is far from the best thing that ever happened to this guy. I am definitely doing my part to change things for the better,my immediate environment is living proof. You won’t find me complaining on the past or blaming maybe some finger pointing.

    Do you think I should hate you for believing hormonal birth control is a good thing?

    If you can find the time this is a good read.

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/20/a-womans-prerogative/

  70. @Marsocdevildog1379

    You are the self proclaimed hater of men that support feminism and you think hormonal birth control for women is a good thing. You obviously support her hypergamic prerogative,thereby much of the source of the problem. Meaning that you support feminism unknowingly.

    My guess is you to are lazy and just here for argumentative kicks, some sort of rabble rouser. So you didn’t take time to read the article. Or maybe it is above your reading comprehension level or beyond your span of attention, in which case you could always use a dictionary to look up the big words and take notes so you don’t miss the point entirely.

  71. @Marsocdevildog1379

    “Birth control was the only good thing that happened and women barely use that shit.”

    First blood

    “@boulderhead It sounds like the feminist imperative was the best this that happened to you guys good for you but other men are trying to change that.”

    I have no control over you,what I think about you is of no consequence, if you feel that was an attack you are to touchy.

    If you boys want to be on the front line in the battle you will toughen up soon enough.

  72. @ boulderhead
    Wow, why does Rollo put up with you, your ruining this comment section major.

    [Sockpuppet. This is Stoic’s IP. Spam confirmed. Say hi to the Sperg for me.]

  73. I was looking at it sexual benefits for men who are mgtow or red pill and don’t want kids since society is already screwed and they don’t want to bring a child in the world to witness this horror. I understand that during sex guys don’t want to pull out to cum during sex and condoms can always pop or they are defected when they are made so if the condom fails on me at least the birth control she took would stop the unwanted pregnancy from taking place but I also pears the pills make women less arroused and less horny for sex so I don’t know if that plan works. Trust me I understand the destruction this pill caused but in the society we live in now men (esp who are red pill or mgtow) aren’t trying to have kids And if the women ends up pregnant she would actually want to have the kid to get child support funds from the man so it’s a clusterfuck everywhere.

  74. @Paradise Found

    I know what you mean,I am amazed every time I key the post comment and something happens. Someday he will probably take all of my hoodoo offensive comments and sponge them from the record. We can only hope it is soon.

  75. @Marsocdevildog1379

    I know what you mean. First men who are MGTOW don’t have any sexual benefits. Men, I believe start out from the sexual benefits stance of not wanting kids. The world isn’t that horrible, when we consider the numbers of people on the planet, things could be worse.

    I used to hate having to pull out right at the moment when a deeper thrust was called for. And who wants to take a shower while wearing a raincoat? Never really had the problem of her being less aroused or horny from the pill, could be a factor though. Again men that are MGTOW don’t worry about having kids. I think there are so few young men that are actually red pill, we could never get a statistic but they would be more likely to feel confident on raising children than the blue pillers.

    From experience when women “end up pregnant”( how did that happen? ) they don’t really consider funding ( at least not the first time around ) What they are thinking is there is life inside me, do I want to kill it?

    On the bright side, the world isn’t such a bad place as the media ( news,intrawebz,social network,etc,) shockfest would have us believe. Even with all the social conditioning, drugs and rules put in place to hinder it biology together with evo psych prevail in most cases, especially where women are concerned. We mainly get back from the environment what we put into it.

  76. What I ment by MGTOW men having sexual benefits is that MGTOW men still do have sex with women but they don’t want kids like you said so that’s where I thought the pill could help but I guess you mind as well go pornstar mode and pull out and let her have it. But at least we agree on the other stuff

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