The Medium is the Message

I hate the term ‘Mixed Signals’ or ‘Mixed Messages’. “I dunno man, she sending me mixed messages” is a common refrain among many a Blue Pill man.

More often than not there’s nothing ‘Mixed’ being communicated, rather it’s a failure (willful or not) to read what a woman is communicating to a man. The average guy tends to ‘get’ exactly what a woman has implied with her words, but it takes practice to read her behavior and then more practice in self-control to apply it to his own interpretation.

When a woman goes from hot to cold and back again, THIS IS the message — she’s got buyers remorse, you’re not her first priority, she’s deliberating between you and what she perceives is a better Hypergamous prospect, you were better looking when she was drunk, etc. — the message isn’t the ‘what ifs’, the message IS her own hesitation and how her behavior manifests it. 10 dates before sex? This IS the message. Canceling dates? Flaking? strong interest to weak interest? This IS the message.

Women with high interest level (IL) wont confuse you. When a woman wants to fuck you she’ll find a way to fuck you. If she’s fluctuating between being into you and then not, put her away for a while and spin other plates. If she sorts it out for herself and pursues you, then you are still playing in your frame and you maintain the value of your attention to her. It’s when you patiently while away your time wondering what the magic formula is that’ll bring her around, that’s when you lean over into her frame. You need her more than she needs you and she will dictate the terms of her attentions.

What most guys think are ‘mixed messages’ or confusing behavior coming from a woman is simply due to their inability (or refusal) to make an accurate interpretation of why she’s behaving in such a manner. Usually this boils down to a guy getting so wrapped up in a girl that he’d rather make concessions for her behavior than see it for what it really is. In other words, it’s far easier to call it ‘mixed messages’ or fall back on the old chestnut of how fickle and random women are, when in fact it’s simply a rationale to keep themselves on the hook, so to speak, because they lack any real, viable, options with other women in their lives. A woman that has a high IL in a guy has no need (and less motivation) to engage in behaviors that would compromise her status with him. Women of all ILs will test a man’s fitness (i.e. shit test), and men will pass or fail accordingly, but a test is more easily recognizable when you consider the context in which they’re delivered.

More often than not women tell the complete truth with their mannerisms and behaviors, they just communicate it in a fashion that men can’t or wont understand. As a behaviorist, I’m a firm believer in the psychological principal that the only way to determine genuine motivation and/or intent is to observe the behavior of an individual. All one need do is compare behavior and the results of it to correlate intent.

A woman will communicate vast wealths of information and truths to a man if he’s only willing to accept her behavior, not exclusively her words, as the benchmark. He must also understand that the truth she betrays in her behavior is often not what he wants to accept.

We get frustrated because women communicate differently than we do. Women communicate covertly, men communicate overtly. Men convey information, women convey feeling. Men prioritize content and information, women prioritize context and feeling when they communicate. One of the great obfuscations fostered by feminization in the last quarter-century is this expectation that women are every bit as rational and inclined to analytical problem solving as men. It’s the result of an equalist mentality that misguides men into believing that women communicate no differently than men. That’s not to discount women learning to be problem solvers in their own right, but it flies in the face how women set about a specifically feminine form of communication. Scientific study after study illustrating the natural capacity women have for exceptionally complex forms of communication (to the point of proving their neural pathways are wired differently) are proudly waved in by a feminized media as proof of women’s innate merits. Yet as men, we’re expected to accept that she “means what she says, and she says what she means.”

More than a few women like to wear this as a badge of some kind of superiority, however it doesn’t necessarily mean that what they communicate is more important, or how they communicate it is more efficient, just that they have a greater capacity to understand nuances of communication better than do men. One of the easiest illustrations of this generational gender switch is to observe the communication methods of the “strong” women the media portray in popular fiction today. How do we know she’s a strong woman? The first cue is she communicates in an overt, information centered, masculine manner.

You don’t need to be psychic to understand women’s covert communication, you need to be observant. This often requires a patience that most men simply don’t have, so they write women off as duplicitous, fickle or conniving if the name fits. Even to the Men that are observant enough, and take the needed mental notes to really see it going on around them, it seems very inefficient and irrational. And why wouldn’t it? We’re Men. Our communications are (generally) information based, deductive and rational, that’s Men’s overt communication. Blunt, to the point, solve the problem and move on to the next. Feminine communication seems insane, it is a highly dysfunctional form of communication….,to be more specific, it’s a childish form of communication. This is what children do! They say one thing and do another. they throw temper tantrums. They react emotionally to everything. Yes, they do. And more often than not, they get what they’re really after — attention. Women are crazy, but it’s a calculated crazy.

Covert communication frustrates us every bit as much as overt communication frustrates women. Our language has no art to it for them, that’s why we seem dumb or simple at best to women. We filter for information to work from, not the subtle details that make communication enjoyable for women. This is the same reason we think of feminine communication as being obfuscating, confusing, even random. The difference is that our confusion and frustration is put to their ultimate use. So long as women remain unknowable, random, irrational creatures that men can’t hope to understand (but can always excuse), they can operate unhindered towards their goals. “Silly boy, you’ll never understand women, just give up” is exactly the M.O. Once you accept this, she’s earned a lifetime of get-out-of-jail-free cards. The myth of the ‘Feminine Mystique’ and a woman’s prerogative (to change her mind) is entirely dependent upon this covert communication.

Now as Men we’ll say, “Evil, immoral, manipulative woman! Shape up and do the right thing, saying one thing then doing another makes you a hypocrite!” and of course this is our rational nature overtly making itself heard and exposing a woman’s covert communication. An appeal to morality, that’ll get her, but,..it doesn’t.

This is because women instinctively know that their sexuality is their first, best agency, and covert communication is the best method to utilize it. Appeals to morality only work in her favor, because all she need do is agree with a Man’s overt assessment of her and suddenly he thinks he’s ‘getting through to her’. As Men, we have become so conditioned by the Feminine Mystique to expect a woman to be duplicitous with us that when she suddenly leans into masculine communication forms and resorts to our own, overt communication method and agrees with us, it seems she’s had an epiphany, or a moment of clarity. “Wow, this one’s really special, ‘high quality’, and seems to get it.” That is, so long as it suits her conditions to do so. When it doesn’t, the Feminine Mystique is there to explain it all away.

Have you ever been in a social setting, maybe a party or something, with a girlfriend or even a woman you may be dating and seemingly out of the blue she says to you privately, “ooh, did you see the dirty look that bitch just gave me?!” You were right there in her physical presence, saw the girl she was talking about, yet didn’t register a thing. Women’s natural preference for covert communication is recognizable by as early as five years old. They prefer to fight in the psychological, whereas boys fight in the physical.

Within their own peer group, little girls fight for dominance with the threat of ostracization from the group. “I wont be your friend anymore if,..” is just as much a threat to a girl as “I’m gonna punch you in the face if,..” is to a boy. This dynamic becomes much more complex as girls enter puberty, adolescence and adulthood, yet they still use the same psychological mode of combat as adults. Their covert way of communicating this using innuendo, body language, appearance, sub-communications, gestures, etc. conveys far more information than our overt, all on the table, way of communicating does. It may seem more efficient to us as Men, but our method doesn’t satisfy the same purpose.

Women enjoy the communication more than the information being transferred. It’s not a problem to be solved, it’s the communication that’s primary. When a chump supplies her with everything all at once we think, yeah, the mystery is gone, he’s not a challenge anymore, why would she be interested? This is true, but the reason that intrigue is gone is because there’s no more potential for stimulating that need for communication or her imagination. Too many men buy into the lie that ‘open communication’ is the key to a good relationship and do an ‘information dump’ believing their wives or girlfriends will appreciate it. In doing so a man denies his woman the satisfaction of communicating in teasing out the information.

Nothing is more self-satisfying for a woman than for her to believe she’s figured a man out by using her mythical ‘feminine intuition’. This intuition is really just a name given to her preferred form of communication.

Lastly, I should add that women are not above using overt communication when it serves their purposes. When a woman comes out and says something in such a fashion so as to leave no margin for misinterpretation, you can bet she’s been pushed to that point out of either fear or sheer exasperation when her covert methods wont work.

“Can’t we just be friends?” is a covert rejection, “Get away from me you creep!!” is an overt rejection. When a woman opts for the overt, rest assured, she’s out of covert ideas and knows she must use men’s form of communication. This is an easy example of this, but when a woman cries on you, screams at you, or issues an ultimatum to you she is self-acknowledging that she is powerless to the point of having to come over to your way of communicating.

Likewise, men can and do master the art of covert communications as well. Great politicians, military generals, businessmen, salesmen to be sure, and of course master pickup artists all use covert communications to achieve their goals. It’s incorrect to think of covert communication as inherently dishonest or amoral, or even in a moral context. It’s a means to an end, just as overt communication is a means to an end, and that end whether decided by men or women is what’s ethical or unethical. The medium is the message.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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the point is women are solipsistic, so anytime you play the game (even if its on what you think are your terms) you will still be submitting to her because your entering her frame of reality. No. You play your game via Game and she fits herself into your frame. Her frame of reality will bend to fit yours. What is the shape of water? It takes the shape of what it is in. What is the shape of woman’s frame? Ask any of several men here, starting with Rollo. You are using far too many words because your thinking… Read more »

Stoic101
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Point is simply whenever you try to game her your entering her frame – and whenever you enter her frame she believes your subconsciously agreeing with own subjective reality – i.e. she thiks, “oh this guy LOVES to play around with me in my fantasy roleplay frame reality, so he won’t care if I do the same with other guys by doing the same thing” – she abuses the seduction process man. The probem is her frame is biasand always will be – unless you explicictly tell her her frame is wrong (which she will hate you for) she will… Read more »

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@ Anonymous Reader – my words ARE clear – my thoughts are simply more abstract than most normal readers- I’ve thought about this shit for nearly a decade man – I agree girls are like water IN SOCIETY, but they still live in their OWN solipsistic reality bro – THATS what solipsism means man – solipsism is thinking ONLY your reality exists dude – the ONLY reason girls CONFORM LIKE WATER to society is because they are solipsistic – maybe you don’t understand the existential nature of girls man – yeah, maybe I haven’t been CRYSTAL FUCKING CLEAR, but it’s… Read more »

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@ Anonymous Reader – -think about it for a second man – why do girls so willing enter into porn? Why are girls ‘better’ at your job than you arE? You ever thought about why girls are ‘so much better’ at your job than you? I have – this will create a bit of controversy – but girls (being like water) excel at mundane tasks – EXCEEDINGLY excel – I’m not talking about some rocket scientist jobs here ok, but your customer service jobs girls are insanly proficient at those – its insane man, watch a girl for 40 hrs… Read more »

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Girls frame = subjective dreams – similar to a man’s oneistis – if you don’t understand what subjectivism and relatavism is in philosophy than you will never understand what solisipsim is – a girls reality is almsot completly subjective – but where is she getting her subjective ideas? From society – so we know her ideas are based in society – her ideas a re subjective impressions of how she ‘feels’ in the moment, theres no real logic invlved – it’s like awatching a movie – how do you feel at the end of THIS scene? – “Oh, I feel… Read more »

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I agree – girls are like water – so mold them to objective reality, not subjective fantasies – anytime you enter a covert frame with a girl your telling her its ok to believe whatever subjective bullshit she wants to believe – which is false – and its the same thing for men, any guy believing in some oneitis fantasy I’m sorry to tell you that’s just subjective nonsense – I’m not a hard materialist here, but the fact remains that subjective fantasies and relativism (in both men and women) have corrupted society – nearly beyond repair. What is ‘game’… Read more »

Idris
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Stoic 101 so how do you know you are entering her frame?and how do you stay out of it? I’m new to this so I wanted to get a good understanding of it.

marsocdevildog1379
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Stoic 101 so how do you know you are entering her frame? and how do you stay out of it? I’m new to this so I want to get a full understanding

marsocdevildog1379
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Stoic 101 so how do you know you are entering her frame? And how do you stay out of it? I’m new to this so I want to get a good understanding of this.

SJF
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Stoic101 Nice rant. Some observations: I agree – girls are like water – so mold them to objective reality, not subjective fantasies – anytime you enter a covert frame with a girl your telling her its ok to believe whatever subjective bullshit she wants to believe – which is false – and its the same thing for men, any guy believing in some oneitis fantasy I’m sorry to tell you that’s just subjective nonsense – I’m not a hard materialist here, but the fact remains that subjective fantasies and relativism (in both men and women) have corrupted society – nearly… Read more »

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@ SJF: “Were you drunk when you wrote that or just feel the need to have a run-on sentence?” -Just how I write What I mean when I said ‘you don’t have to game girls’ isn’t the typical meaning you think I’m suggesting. What I mean when I say you don’t have to game them is because exactly what you said; it’s unconscious predominately. Yes, men learn game because it’s fun and useful, but the point I’m making when saying YOU DONT HAVE TO GAME THEM is because she ignorantly believes (one way or another) that she’s the chooser –… Read more »

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You can’t care what a girl is thinking, it’s like caring what a child is fuckin thinking, it fuckin changes moment to moment, it’s pointless to give a shit about what’s going on in her head, because it’s entirely subjective. All you’ll get is useless information if your basing ‘game’ off of what she say’s, her words almost never line up correctly. She’s entirely subjective, so there’s no point trying to ‘decode’ her. You already have the code; she’s subjective and relativistic and solipsistic, there you go, thats ALL you need to know about what’s going on in her head.… Read more »

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“Make sense? Good.” No. Not at all. It’s all just your subjective feelings. I’ve found Married Red Pill Game invaluable. Game is good. Game is fun. Game gives agency. I find it fine to have my Frame. I’m OK with my wife having her own Frame. We’re not equal. She’s feminine and I’m masculine. We females and males are very different. And that is the good thing. I’d hat to have a masculine woman to be with. I’d hate to be feminine. I’m a big, big fan of using MBTI to facilitate relationships. My wife and I are complementary and… Read more »

boulderhead
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@Stoic

You sure use alot of words, the trouble with overthinking is when we get negative it goes to deep.
This stuff is real simple, she has been taught to have frame,her biology forces her to look for a man with stronger frame she can fall into and relax. We are looking for complemenarity,not to change women. They are not changeable,men however are and they need to stop listening to women,trying to fit their frame… Rather pay attention to other men like Rollo and many of the commenters on this blog in order to get the real skinny.

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The mindset of current PUA’s and ‘alpha’s badboys’ or whatever is that you WONT GET A SECOND CHANCE, that you HAVE to fuck her immediatly so she knows your serious and so you lock her down at least on an emotional level. While there’s some definite truth there in a roundabout sort of way, the intent should still be to NOT go out looking to fuck a bitch unless you INTEND to lock her down also. The reason guys need so desperately to learn game is every motherfucker isn’t bothering with locking that bitch down, they just fuck her and… Read more »

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@boulderhead Are you kidding me? I want to change women, I have no problem wanting to change them, bunch of sluts running around all over the place – first change is just to tell her to get the fuck off her phone and social media. There’s one quick fix. Fuck ya I want to change women, they are super fucked up these days men. Lose weight, grow your hair out, don’t get anymore fucked up tattoos, stop dying your hair, stop swearing – there’s all kinds of shit women need to change. @SJF ya, game is ‘alright’ ok, I’m not… Read more »

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Stoic101
Point is simply whenever you try to game her your entering her frame

No. This is false. You cannot build any logic on an obvious false statement like this.

You’re emotion is all over your words, like a drunk telling a long, meandering story that has no point. Stop emoting. Start thinking.

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Stoic 101 Are you a sockpuppet for The Artful Man or for Pat Stedman? or one of their acolytes? You obviously demonstrate that you haven’t read any Rollo, or you would realize your rants are baseless in regards to his body of work. https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/28/humanism-behaviorism-and-the-amorality-of-game/ “Any motherfucker who thinks he’s just going to go around fucking to fuck and has no intent to lockdown isn’t ‘alpha’ – he’s a little fuckin boy who is scared of making a family and passing on his genes. Any actual man will tell you creating a family is the most alpha shit you can do.… Read more »

kfg
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Stoic 101:

Understanding the strategies of your opponents and using that knowledge to your own tactical advantage is not falling into their trap.

Stoic101
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Never heard of The Artful Man or Pat Stedman before, but they must be legit if they preaching what I’m saying. I’m not trolling, I’m educating, there’s a difference. You think you have it all figured out, clearly. And yeah, I get that Rollo’s ‘body of worked’ is based on one thing, just because I’m suggesting something else doesn’t mean I disagree with his work, the stuff on this website is legit, I have no problem with most of it. I’m simply giving my own pov on the matter. Are YOU sure that YOUR not the troll or acolyte? I’m… Read more »

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Women being more objective DOES make them more feminine – again I don’t have 2 hours to sit here and explain everything to you. Being objective DOES mean acknowledging your gender, but when you have women who are so insanely subjective than yes, they need to be more honest with WHO THEY ARE – I’m not saying for women to be like men, I’m saying for them to have an objective honest assessment of self – by doing so makes her more womanly and caring and nurturing and all the other traits men love in women – just because women… Read more »

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@kfg “Understanding the strategies of your opponents and using that knowledge to your own tactical advantage is not falling into their trap.” Her frame is locked in place, all you can do is try to persuade her one way or another, but ultimately she’s the one deciding whether she’s going to fuck you, you aren’t really the chooser, it’s unfortunate but girl’s don’t see past their solipsism, and so she’s going to ALWAYS 100% think it was her idea, and if she ever thinks its not, that’s when she cries ‘rape’ and ‘harassment’ on you. Game is a means to… Read more »

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I’m not young, and I’m not angry, your writing simply lacks any sort of actual caring in it, that’s why you think I’m coming off aggressive, cuse you read stuff in your own Ti echo chamber and don’t want to acknowledge maybe you could be wrong. I don’t give a fuck if how angry I come across, most guys are such little fuckin bitches they need to be more angry. I’m as calmn and cool as a motherfucker, I simply write aggressive because I actually am passionate, not a robot like you my INTJ friend. “I am robot. I submit… Read more »

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“I have’n’t read EVERYTHING on this site so I don’t know EVERYTHING Rollo thinks or doesn’t think… ….. I don’t think I’ve said anything which is entirely inaccurate either.” At least you might want to re-read the original essay you are posting comments under. What don’t you understand about the language (including subcommunication) that women speak actually is direct. You just can’t interpret it properly and that makes you say that if only it was direct, it would be easier for you. I wish the German language was in English. Your subjective feelings about the matter don’t make you or… Read more »

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@Stoic101

1:02:17 – 1:03:28

marsocdevildog1379
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@stoic101 yes I know exactly what your talking about. A lot on men in the red pill and MGTOW have a “live in the decline mindset. Theve believe they already lost and society is already destroyed so there’s no point in changing anything. But they will keep complaining how women are this that and the third and won’t change and thing, I see it all on YouTube. It becomes annoying actually. YouTube’s talk about the same things all of the time but won’t come up with a solution to stop it. It’s no different than what females do they bitch… Read more »

Stoic101
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@SFJ What’s your point? There nature does change, all of the time, they be like water, they change to their environment constantly. I’m on like a whole different wavelength than you are man. It’s like talking to a brickwall, your only hearing what you wanna hear, do you not have any way to think abstractly at all? ZZZ….Girls change based on their environment all of the time – what’s difficult to understand about that? Girls nature is based on their environment, change the environment, change the girl. Your ad hominem’s are fucking pointless man, you simply don’t understand the shit… Read more »

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“I’m not young,…” You know I was going to add a statement in parentheses: “But if your not young you might really be Fucked in the head.” …and I’m not angry, your writing simply lacks any sort of actual caring in it” Want to guess what my Big Five Agreeableness score is? Question for you: Do you spend any time in all male spaces on a regular basis over the decades? One where there is not more than one female in a group? And said female is a hostess at that? And are you going to now lecture me on… Read more »

Stoic101
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@j Again, another ad hominem, you know nothing about myy personal life or me. You simply think I’m some angry guy that can’t get laid. Ad hominems are fucking pointless. For the record, I’ve already said this, I’ve had “wild success” with girls. asked out hundreds of girls, literally. Been gaming for a really long fuckin time. And Tyler has some okay things to say, but the dude is ultimately just a weasel faggot, listen to him talk about masturbating, he’s like a fuckin monkey, has no moral proclivities in the slightest, everyman nowadays a fuckin materialist loser with no… Read more »

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“I’m on like a whole different wavelength than you are man.” Heard that one before. In the Pat Stedman podcast with TheArtfulMan. “There nature does change, all of the time, they be like water, they change to their environment constantly” Frame is not power. You are arguing for molding women’s frame with the metaphor of them being like water. They are like water. A big old ocean of water in a storm. They are never directly linear in the logic of their thinking. Not even those STEM girls. “It’s like talking to a brickwall, your only hearing what you wanna… Read more »

Stoic101
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@SFJ You do realize it’s easier to berate somehow who actually is putting forth ideas and generating a discussion right. You haven’t put anything on the table which even constitutes being a part of the discussion. Your simply a talking head nodding in approval to Rollo. If you got a brain maybe use it and add to the discussion. Instead you just want to sit there and ad hominem me left and right. Here’s an ad hominnem for you: your right, you don’t have a dick and your a fuckin passionless INTJ robot. Never took the Big 5 and don’t… Read more »

Stoic101
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I can quote you all day long and attack it all day long too, put forth some ideas.

Stoic101
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If frames not power why bother using it?

kfg
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@Stoic 101: “ultimately she’s the one deciding whether she’s going to fuck you”

You were expecting that maybe the central committee was going to assign her to you?

SJF
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I’ve contributed to the discussion by pointing out to you as a neophyte that your misperceptions of The Red Pill and Game are just that. You just don’t see it as that though because you are ignorant of most of what that is and what it represents.

And don’t be ignorant so as to think Rollo’s brand of Red Pill is the same as Game. Or that all Game is PUA game.

Consider this:

https://therationalmale.com/2017/08/17/misperceptions-of-the-red-pill/

Stoic101
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@kfg

I wish man. That’s ideal society probably. I’m all for arranged marriages. Dating is bullshit and doesn’t work typically, especially nowadays. Cut threw all the bullshit and just arrange a marriage, lot easier. What makes picking and choosing great though is the power structure involved. You know how much she actually gives a shit, in an arranged marriage it becomes formality and the seduction process dies.

j
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@Stoic101

“I’ve had “wild success” with girls. asked out hundreds of girls, literally.”

So you didn’t fuck them? Ah I see. So the problem is in actually getting them to text you back huh? Well my friend texting is a whole different animal in 2017. I can share some links on how to go about getting them to meet you and fucking them. Feel free to share your progress on The Field Reports section and we’ll do our best to break it down for you wink

good luck

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“If frames not power why bother using it?” Now that is a real interesting question. Because it explains the premise on which you have been Rambling ON! about. https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/ ….understand that frame is NOT power. The act of controlling the frame may be an exercise in power for some, but let me be clear from the start that the concept of frame is who’s ‘reality’ in which you choose to operate in relation to a woman. Both gender’s internalized concept of frame is influenced by our individual acculturation, socialization, psychological conditioning, upbringing, education, etc., but be clear on this, you… Read more »

Stoic101
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@SFJ And your proving YOUR not a neophyte by agreeing with Rollo? Lawl. I am robot. I submit to Rollo. I use my brain not. zzz. Dude, you clearly are obsessed with whoever has ‘authority’ of a topic. Rollo, Art of man, Pat whoever the fuck, me…do YOU have any of you OWN ideas? Just because YOU PERCEIVE me as a neophyte because you don’t think I’m correct, fine with me, think what you want about me, doesn’t change what I actually know. The problem is YOU have none of your own ideas and it’s pretty obvious your one of… Read more »

Stoic101
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@j Oh my bad, shoulda said I fucked literally 100’s of girls. Again, another guy who ONLY appeals to authority’s on a topic and doesn’t think for himself on anything. Would it really matter if I fucked 1, 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 girls? Why is number even relevant? Oh, it’s becase your NOT A MAN if you havent fucked a 100 girls right? Zzzz….You guys are obsessed with appeals to authority. If I could actually show and prove to you I fucked 300 girls would you give a fuck? Would it even matter? Does that make me an authority… Read more »

Stoic101
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[Gentlemen, you will establish frame in any monogamous relationship you have. You will enter her reality or she will enter yours.]

She never truly enters a man’s frame though. That’s the problem. She’s entirely solipsistic. And if you enter her frame your setting yourself up for defeat.

j
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No I baited you into admitting you’re a hypocrite. Checkmate

boulderhead
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“She never truly enters a man’s frame though. That’s the problem.”

Where is the problem with this?

If you want her in your frame start your own quilting bee.

Stoic101
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Checkmate? What are you a fuckin girl? Again, with teh ad hominem’s. So what do you want? You want an actual number of girls I’ve slept with? I have had ‘wild success’ – you posted that stupid RSD video trying make the shit seem like I’m some AFC or something, “if you HAVENT had WILD SUCCESS with girls you MUST not know what your talking about” – again another appeal to authority. I mean go right on thinking what you want man, I don’t give a shit, the point here is to actually figure some shit out. Your concerned about… Read more »

Stoic101
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@boulderhead

The problem is your her play thing if you don’t force her out of her head and make her directly acknowledge herself and objective reality.

Stoic101
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Game = entering her frame – which means game is an illusion of control

boulderhead
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“The problem is your her play thing if you don’t force her out of her head and make her directly acknowledge herself and objective reality.” What I learned to do was force her out of my head, this way I can get more done, the things I need to do and like. She may never directly acknowledge anything, oh wucking fell. She lives in my home eats my food and shares my bed, she has her life and I have mine. I used to think on an egalitarian base, she must be stoned or something, in reality all women are… Read more »

Stoic101
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@boulderhead Me: “She never truly enters a man’s frame though. That’s the problem.” boulder: “Where is the problem with this?” You DON’T want to be in her frame if ever – the only time I would ever advocate being in her frame is to fuck her and then to later neg her frame altogether after she’s emotionally invested. Your not doing yourself any favors by playing around in her frame. Men are meant to PULL women OUT of her head and into objective reality. That’s what were made to do and what she expects us to do. She ‘likes’ when… Read more »

Stoic101
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I’m not trolling man, I’m extrapolating my opinion. I like your posts. If you don’t like other pov’s don’t have a discussion thread. At least you’ve lasted longer than Roosh. I post on his website couple times and he deletes everything I post. Lawl. you either want insightful discussion or you want an echo chamber man.

Stoic101
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You being the Secret King of course. you do know everything right? Or are you willing to change your opinion on certain things? I’m just a student of life, you either want to learn or you can sit on your high horse all day long.

boulderhead
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“She ‘likes’ when a man enters her frame because it gives her power over you that she normally would never have.” What you are describing here is a sick relationship, She has power in my kitchen, she uses my buying power at the store, she doesn’t want me to enter her frame and be her bitch she wants a real man, and I give her that. The primary goal of game is highly variable depending on a mans position at the time, taking into consideration all the possible variables it becomes a lifelong study. It really isn’t that women invented… Read more »

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I get it man, just like I told you Roosh. You guys have a website and books and making money off of this. No one wants there website spammed by someone preaching a different pov. But you can’t have it both ways man. You either want discussion which will open you up to people who disagree or you don’t. Don’t think you can have comment section and not get guys saying they disagree. If thats a problem for you then just shut down the comment section altogether. I’m not spamming or trolling. I enjoy the discussion cuse its intellectual. Until… Read more »

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Women are already broken. You can’t break her anymore than she already is. Your fixing her. Sure, you can give her a bit of frame control every once and a while, maybe early on, but that’s not what men are meant to be supplying to women. She doesn’t want frame control but she’s at the mercy of her existential crisis. it sounds like my ideas aren’t of value here so I guess I’ll go elsewhere. Have fun in your echo chamber boys.

Stoic101
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Oh my god man, its not about NOT running game. Running game is ‘good’ as a seduction tool. The WHOLE point your missing is that any game you run is submission to her reality frame.

Stoic101
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When I say direct I don’t men ‘direct’ like men; i.e. like DIRECT forward speek and saying EXACTLY what is happening. Imean direct and open and honest openness with OBJECTIVE nature and reality dude. When I say she needs to be direct I mean she needs to be hoest with herself. Unlike say the opposite; like a feminist who isn’t honest with women and how a girl can still be 300lbs and be ‘beautiful’. I’m not frustrated at womens communication style dude. it has nothing to do with being frustrated at how women emotae feelings, it has everything to do… Read more »

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Stoic101
Game = entering her frame – which means game is an illusion of control

False. Repeating falsehood doesn’t make it true.

boulderhead
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Stoic A pole vault isn’t required to get over a mouse turd.

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Stoic101
Roosh. I post on his website couple times and he deletes everything I post

Gee, I wonder why? Troll for flames much?

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Stoic101
The WHOLE point your missing is that any game you run is submission to her reality frame.

Wrong. Again.

Stoic101
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As far as dancing monkeys go, I have no problem with someone switching gears and gaming girls, it works right, chicks dig it right? ZZZ…. That’s not a problem here man, the problem is creating a society of clowns believing that its acceptable. Her reality frame will never change. You have some post on here about the Alpha dbag kid who threw the party and the kid is a total clown etc etc. Yes, thats alpha, I totally agree with you. Now why is it alpha? Do you think that guy gives two fucks about trying to seduce a girl?… Read more »

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How am I wrong? you fuckin guys provide no arguments except Rollo. Simply dismissing something as wrong doesnt make it wrong. Provide something of substance, jesus. Shes solipsistic man, EVERYTHING you do with her – ANY interaction – is a submission to her reality frame – she does not give two fucks about what YOU think – EVERY girl is essentially just like that dbag alpha in Rollo’s post: https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/20/alpha/ They don’t give two shits, any ‘game’ your doing is simply being that dancing monkey. Her entire reality frame revolves around herself 24/7, she lives it, breathes it, etc. Game… Read more »

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Stoic101
Her reality frame will never change.

False.

boulderhead
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Stoic101 ,So what you are saying is we could all think like you if we tried harder?

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Stoic101
I enjoy the discussion cuse its intellectual.

You’re babbling. Not discussing anything.

boulderhead
So what you are saying is we could all think like you if we tried trolled harder?

FIFY>

Blaximus
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All I know is that lemonade is a cool, refreshing drink.

Aaahhhhh……

boulderhead
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Blaximus
All I know is that lemonade is a cool, refreshing drink.

Not hot enough for that out here in nowhere, but a cup of coffee and glass of water hits the spot.

Stoic101
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@ Rollo Sub-communication ultimately (as an end game) makes for weak men, yes. It’s because if your gaming her (with subcom) you’ve entered a reality which is meant to change based on her emotional state; i.e. your reacting to her. Yes, I agree as I’ve already said, using game and frame as a seduction tool works, its obvious it works, but at the end of the day the girl EXPECTS you to continue entering her sub-communication reality frame. If you covert game all of the time with the girl she begins to expect it all of the time. What ends… Read more »

boulderhead
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Stoic you are reacting to subcommunication’s now. Just like she does when she reads me, I am not even trying to sucommunicate,it is something she picks up on and reacts to.

boulderhead
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Stoic just the other day,I turned down the advances of seven different women in bathing suits,not directly but with subcommunication. I had to be somewhere at five. The air of confidence that I carried the next day was picked up on by my spouse and she banged me like there was no tomorrow. That is how it’s supposed to work.

kfg
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“Sub-communication is not an honest approach to reality, it’s built on the emotional state of a person, not on the literal environment in front of you.” You are exchanging fundamental particles and cells with the environment, right now. Should that cease, so will your life. I know of no way to define a boundary between you and the environment (some of which is actually inside of you, while you recursively form its environment). Every person, exactly as they are, including their emotional states, is part of your literal environment. Inferring that they are being dishonest for being as they are… Read more »

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@ Rollo I suppose the burden of proofs on me – when I say gaming isn’t alpha – just think about your own post about the alpha Corey – the natural doesn’t game – so how could gaming = alpha? Gaming can give the girl the impression of alpha but it’s ultimately an inaccurate impression. I mean were probably going to have to agree to disagree on this, but to me what is alpha is taking a girl out of her solipsistic reality, even if she doesn’t like you for doing so. Most girls , just like most children don’t… Read more »

boulderhead
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“I suggest you read more into it. Or are you too much of a hard materialist? Anyways I’m done, enjoy your echo chamber.”

“it sounds like my ideas aren’t of value here so I guess I’ll go elsewhere. Have fun in your echo chamber boys.”

” Anyways I’m done, forget it.”

“Anyways I think I’ve exhausted this thread and most peoples patience.”

Such a long goodbye.

Stoic101
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@ kfg Pretty much. Sub-communication is entirely based on the subjective, entering into it with a girl is to simply accept her subjective emotional state. It’s still not an honest approach though, especially not to a relationship. Why is it not your thinking. It’s because its like role-playing and living a fake roleplay reality, its not objective and natural, it s a’stage’ which has been fabricated between you and the girl, and you two are both on the stage. Men’s goal is to get women off of the stage and to be in touch with the natural truths of reality,… Read more »

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@boulderhead

Try it sometime with girls, keeps um coming back.

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Stoic101
Sub-communication is entirely based on the subjective, entering into it with a girl is to simply accept her subjective emotional state.

LOL, no! Not even close. Got more black pills with you?

Have you ever heard of MGTOW? I’m thinking you have…

kfg
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@Stoic 101:

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I wouldn’t worry about it. She’s just subcommunicating her subjective reality. Very dishonest really, having nothing to do with the real environment literally in front of her (that would be you). Go about your business.

boulderhead
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“Try it sometime with girls, keeps um coming back.”

Under the assumption you are referring to the long goodbye. You could always move that suggestion to the ‘Creep’ thread.

Stoic101
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Sub-communication isn’t just body language, it’s innuendo, its words, stories, it’s basically anything saying something indirectly. Which makes you wonder what is being direct then right? If you say to a girl “I want to have sex with you” – thats obviously direct, no disagreements there right? When you put your arm around a girl and make out and then pull off her pants is that direct or indirect? To me that’s pretty direct, but I could see an argument made for indirect. So what’s indirect then? Indirect is innuendo, it can even be words (which don’t explicitly say whats… Read more »

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@boulderhead

LAWL – I think me spamming one thread is enough for Rollo at this point.

Stoic101
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I love tigers sub-communication styles

kfg
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“So, what is sub-communication”

https://infogalactic.com/info/Nonverbal_communication

“Why won’t this guy just stfu already right?”

Because he’s dishonest. Don’t worry, you didn’t surprise us. You subcommed that in flashing neon.

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The pc libs and feminists and girls all cry foul over ‘rape’ – why? Well, I think it’s partially got to do with them subconsciously wanting men to explicitly make them (the girls) state these DIRECT objective truths. Feminists cry out “No means NO!” – or whatever the fuck. When your about to fuck a girl and she say’s NO, to a feminists NO MEANS NO! It’s fuckin retarded. But what feminists are subconsciously trying to get men to do is to get women to acknowledge objective reality. What women really want is to speak direct, but they feel censored… Read more »

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@kfg

How am I dishonest? Whatever man, bring something to the table instead of just attacking all the time. Child.

kfg
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“How am I dishonest?”

Boulderhead counted the ways. Every time you have bid us farewell we started counting 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . aaaaaaaaand there’s his next comment – because we knew your overt declaration was false.

boulderhead
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“What is the problem with this your wondering Why won’t this guy just stfu already right? The fucking problem is GAME, PUA, Framing, is all based on subcom, it’s all based on sub-emoting, its basing a relationship on the subjective value of two individuals, and not directly acknowledging the value.” You may be right,I don’t think so. Every guy has to start somewhere. We are all not born intuitively knowing how to act around the opposite sex. females mature at a younger age and by nature start studying boys at least two years before the boys are interested. This gives… Read more »

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@ Rollo

Agree for the most part and noted.

I would simply say the girl still must be first open to that man’s said game – which means the man still has to enter her framework. I don’t necessarily even care about Alpha or Beta, cuse like you said, it’s all dependent on context normally. For the record all I’m saying game is = to seduction, but to seduce is to enter her world. I’d much rather drag her out into mine.

I like Roosh, learned a lot from him, too bad he didn’t want to have conversation. Oh well.

Stoic101
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@kfg You keep asking questions man. So I keep replying. Simple. @boulderhead Not sure what you mean by the original idea thing, I already acknowledge most of the stuff on this website is correct. I simply have my own lens I’m looking through and basing it off of. I do think there is an absolute way to approach girls which is the correct way. We aren’t robots ok man, but the whole point of the gaming community originally was to establish a consensus as to what works and what doesnt work with girls. And so I’m bringing my idea to… Read more »

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Stoic101
I would simply say the girl still must be first open to that man’s said game

In some sense. Maybe.

– which means the man still has to enter her framework.

LOL! No! Not even!

Do you know what MGTOW is? I think you do….

kfg
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“You keep asking questions man. So I keep replying.”

Q.E.D., but at least I didn’t predict that one.

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