There’s nothing more refreshing for me than to read the insights of new Rational Readers. Generally it’s not that most offer anything terribly novel (some do), but it’s the predictable, persistent, feminized societal interpretations that keep reusing the same tired rationales which gives me hope that positive masculinity is cracking that shell. In other words, girl-world isn’t really coming up with anything new; it’s just retreads of old tropes.
One new Rational Reader, ‘S’ (maybe for Susan?) decided to take me to task for my graphically detailed essay on Navigating the SMP. Have Hamster, will spin.
While S suffers from the common female malady of reverse rationalizing her ‘circumstances’, she does provide a perspective on a topic I have yet to cover here in her followup response:
Fine, I read that. I just don’t agree with you philosophy that women somehow have no purpose after the age of 30. What if say there were circumstances outside of her control that prevented her from getting married at what a simpleton might deem as an acceptable time…what if she never partied and slept around? There is more to a woman than physicality and it pisses me off that there are men like many of the above (bitter much?) who don’t appear to see worth in a women once her..what’s it called..sexual market value declines…it just strikes me a scarily misogynistic..like some creeped up from of American Psycho shit and it makes me scared for our society.
There is a lot to be said for developing true companionship with someone, having a kind of partner in crime relationship that endures…A woman of any age is appropriate for this.
To paraphrase Roissy’s inimitable words, the closer you get to the truth the louder the feminine will screech. As odd as this is going to sound I actually agree with most of S’s point here. You see, when I was detailing the timeline of men and women’s respective sexual market values, my intent was to provide a raw and unvarnished view of how, in contemporary social dynamics, men and women’s sexual market values differ over the course of time. I made the efforts (loose as they were) to reveal the slow-burn valuation of men’s SMV in contrast with women’s quick-burn SMV.
Emotional Response
Exposing uncomfortable truths is kind of a mixed bag when it comes to the emotional response to those truths. For instance when I read articles about feminist triumphalism regarding how much more ‘advanced’ women are over men today, or I read reviews like ‘The End of Men‘, the analytical portion of my brain gives way to the more emotive response. Why try right? If I’m obsolete, if the cards are stacked in women’s favor before I even get dealt a hand, why not go my own way? There’s a certain hopelessness to that initial emotional response, especially when there’s no hint of sympathy or contrition forthcoming from ‘powerful’ women and all the women aspiring to that empowerment. This is just how the game has shaken out, too bad for you men, you’re fucked now.
I imagine S probably feels the same way when she sees the landscape of the sexual marketplace on display in such Darwinian, graphic terms. Once you’ve hit the Wall ladies, your value begins its decline in earnest, so The Threat then becomes men becoming self-aware enough of their increasing SMV to capitalize upon his increase and your decrease accordingly. This is the nasty part of hypergamy; the countdown to the Wall is ever-present, but so is the subconsciousness-level doubt about having made the optimal hypergamic mating choice before the clock reaches zero. Every SMP opportunity after that point will always be colored by what opportunities she could’ve consolidated upon before it.
I often get called a cynic or uncaring in the delivery of my observations, but try to understand my approach is always about pragmatism. Should women’s overall value mean more than just her physicality and sexual availability? Yes, of course, just as Men’s intrinsic value ought to be more broadly appreciated for the qualities of his character and the sacrifices he makes to facilitate a woman’s reality. I would love nothing better than to think that the human spirit combined with mutual good-will and understanding could lift us above our base, innate drives. I would love to live in a world where men could get a hard-on based solely upon his estimation of a woman’s respective “worth”, and where women swoon for a humble, noble, loyal and devoted overweight and underemployed man with a negative balance in his bank account.
In the manosphere, every day I read about the conflict between what our higher selves should want in a woman. There’s no lack for articles and blog/forum responses making impassioned pleas for women’s fidelity, loyalty, intelligence, grace, femininity, appreciation, and a long list of other ephemeral qualities as being ideal for an LTR prospect. In fact I’d argue that the majority of men’s misreading women comes more from seeing past the red flags and attributing more importance to these qualities than a woman actually merits. For every divorced man who uttered the words “I never thought she was capable of this” I’ll show you a guy who rationalized his attraction to his ex based on what he thought were her ‘value added’ qualities.
Relationships – Nature and Nurture
I would never argue that a man or woman NOT aspire to be better than they are as human beings. There are always going to be human elements to any relationship that transcend what we’d expect the nature of the Game to dictate to us, but underneath that compassionate understanding, behind the flowery sentimentalism, is still the base drives, the feral hypergamy, the cruel reality of the Wall, etc. that we will never be exempt from. On Friday I’ll have been married for 16 years to a beautiful, loyal, feminine, woman. Mrs. Tomassi embodies a great many of the ideal qualities that most men would put on their LTR vetting list – she’s a great partner in crime for me, but my initial attraction to her had far less to do with those qualities and far more to do with how much she turned me on. However, as comfortable as I am with her, as intimate as we are with each other’s identities, warts and all, I still understand the base framework necessary for all of this to take place within.
A relationship based solely upon physicality and sexuality is every bit as weak as one based solely upon esoteric appreciations of ‘higher‘ value-added qualities.
The strongest, healthiest relationships are those in which both parties have a mature, mutual understanding and embrace of both the natural aspect and the nurturing aspect of the SMP. Women will never come to appreciate men’s intrinsic sacrifices made for them without coming to terms with naturalistic side of Game and the SMP. Likewise men need to come to terms with the reality of their conditioning and the fem-centric Matrix in order to appreciate the gravity of their decision to commit to a formalized monogamy / marriage. They need to appreciate the risk of the situation they find themselves in, but have hitherto ben unaware of. For both genders, coming to this understanding is often an ugly prospect.
Likewise it’s important to develop an appreciation for, and an embrace of those value-added qualities which move beyond the naturalistic side of the SMP. While being of primary importance, sex and the feral aspects of the SMP aren’t the only aspects of a healthy LTR. When it comes time to make the transition from spinning plates to informed, committed monogamy, you still have to live with that person and this is when those value-added attributes make or break the LTR.
I understand S’s and so many other women’s frustrations with the Game as it applies to women’s deficiencies. I’ve written at length about how women would rather have the Game changed to better suit their capacities to play it. In this instance S repeats a common moan in that she expects men to appreciate the ‘value added’ elements of a woman’s persona in priority to her base attractiveness. Her fears that men might adopt some policy of neglecting “quality” women in favor of “arousing” women, while understandable in terms of feminine competition anxiety, are really unfounded. If anything it’s the majority of beta men conditioned to believe that “it’s what on the inside that matters” who’ve borne the brunt of women’s social dissatisfaction for the past 40 years.
Guys don’t seek out the community because they’re getting too much pussy from being ‘Nice’ and appreciative of women’s ‘deeper’ qualities and they don’t know how to let down all these women easy. If anything compromises self-respect (assuming an AFC even has a concept of that) it’s a Scarcity/Sniper mentality. Worry less about the guys tapping their “harems” and more about the chump crucifying himself to be the martyr for his singular “dream girl”. He’s far more common.
July 18th, 2012 at 10:58 am
I see what you are saying. I’ll rephase: I hope to be back in a LTR years before that point.
July 18th, 2012 at 11:23 am
My comment was eaten up. Reposting…
——————–
I’m always late to the gangbang.
S, the best thing you can take away from your random encounter with this community is to preserve the curiosity that caused you to post (and reply) in such open-minded detail. You will be savaged in other forums, but Rollo runs a classy establishment here. Maintain that curiosity, even when it leads you down dark alleys, because up to this moment, you have been instinctively avoiding the scary places where the truth is found. We all live in a fluffy unicorn cloud, and that’s by nefarious design.
The Red Pill/Blue Pill metaphor from The Matrix has purchase here because the the journey requires courage, and the truth is concomitant with pain. Men are eager for this kind of journey. Women are disposed to avoiding it. You have already demonstrated the courage to engage. Follow GeishaKate as one of the few women who has successfully navigated these shoals, and frequent Stingray’s new site.
Without women as a leavening agent, these man-groups trend toward the insular, the stunted, the bisexual, and the hyperactive. Have the courage to keep posting, and you will be surprised how many of us here will have your back.
The decisions you make in the next year or two will determine the trajectory of the rest of your life in ways the culture does not allow you to appreciate. You have limited resources with which to make smart decisions. But you are lucky enough to have discovered here what you need “just browsing Google Search.”
Everything else online — and I do mean everything — is virtually worthless in terms of “information on dating.” At this moment our community is heavily geared toward men in tone and content. But earnest women like you can help shape it into something very useful for yourself and your sisters. Ignore the bitter comments and resentment that are thrown at you — we are an ornery bunch frustrated by a generation of lies, and many will try to take it out on the nearest girl they see.
It takes until menopause for most women to suffer into the wisdom available to you here and now, in your late 20s, if you will have it. Life is about to get much more rocky for you than it has been your entire adult life. Jump in the boat, grab a paddle, we’ll help you steer through it.
Matt
July 18th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
For S –
There is a little calculation device. It is attributed to the French. A man should target women half his age, plus seven. For women, that works at subtracting seven years from your age, then doubling it. When you’re sixteen, it makes good sense to target boys who are eighteen. Its a good match.
By the time you’re twenty-seven, you won’t arouse the same level of enthusiasm that a girl of sixteen arouses in a boy of eighteen in men younger than forty.
That’s assuming equivalent sexual market value. You could probably excite any number of bottom-feeders and be married by next Tuesday. It reminds me of when I was recently married and a single friend of my wife asked me where she could find an available man.
I mentioned that I saw a lot of guys down at the comic book store playing Dungeons and Dragons. She wasn’t interested.
July 18th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
I’m at the other end of the twenties and the majority of offers that do come my way come from the 22-33 age bracket. Where I live however it would be the norm to not veer too far from your own age.
July 18th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
S, think of “The Wall” as a rough metaphor for the approximate timing when female fertility starts to take a dive. Like all living organisms, we are biologically programmed for 1) survival and 2) propagation. As such, many of the traits that we find attractive are proxies – markers – for those biological imperatives. This is why youth and health (i.e., beauty) are attractive. Now, a woman can take care of herself as best she can, and it is highly laudable of her to do so, but the fact remains that the clock ticks inexorably toward the expiration date. This is why the graph shows women’s SMV falling faster and lower than men’s SMV. Simply put, it all comes down to mate value in terms of ability to bear, or sire, healthy young to carry on the genes.
July 19th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
Wow. That Bible verse tat was part of our wedding vows. A strange chick.
July 19th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
That picture was interesting because of its location. My deceased Father spoke those words as my Best Man when I married. Truer words were never spoken. But a girl has to Wife up if she is serious.
July 21st, 2012 at 8:02 am
“In this instance S repeats a common moan in that she expects men to appreciate the ‘value added’ elements of a woman’s persona in priority to her base attractiveness.”
Awkwardly enough for such hopes, women’s personas are more of a value subtract. Imagine someone sexually unattractive to you, a 50yo male say, behaving like a woman or perhaps like your wife. It’s just not that great.
July 22nd, 2012 at 12:04 am
[…] Male – Value Added, The Wall, White Knight […]
July 23rd, 2012 at 4:03 am
” Women will never come to appreciate men’s intrinsic sacrifices made for them without coming to terms with naturalistic side of Game and the SMP. Likewise men need to come to terms with the reality of their conditioning and the fem-centric Matrix in order to appreciate the gravity of their decision to commit to a formalized monogamy / marriage.”
Am I right to understand that I will never fully appreciate how difficult it is for a guy to choose me over women with high SMV/at their SMV peak unless I fully embrace the rules of the game?
Gravity of decision like that, and the way men are conditioned… Wouldn’t a 26-28 year old woman, somewhat established in life be less risky, and more attractive provided she has the looks than a 23 year old college student grasping adulthood and life in general? Having children with the former would seem a lot safer and reasonable.
July 25th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
I am so far down in the comments no one will ever read this. I have a new spin on the “Love is Blind” saying. Most people interpret it as “When you are in love your normal critical thinking about your mate diminishes. You overlook bodily scents, some physical imperfections, behavior issues, social issues. Later when the heat of passion ebbs then critical thinking returns.”
My new spin now is “Now that you know all that you know about the motivations of women, what the probable and possible outcomes of relationships are with her, after many men have compared notes, after all of this new academic work has come out in Evolutionary Psychology, new statistics are emerging, how the law favors her and steps on you, how dishonest, unfaithful, cruel, and wicked she is, how duplicitous and calculating that she is in her pursuit of hypergamy, then how could any man be so stupid as fall in love with her? You would have to be blind to reality. How can you even begin to trust her love? How could even sleep at night with her in the fucking house with you without one eye open? How could consider any other option other than MGTOW or GAME?”
I just finished Niel Strauss’ book “The Game”. At the end of it, he sort of disses on PUA as hollow, pointless and he goes off into a relationship with that guitar playing woman from Courtney Love’s band, Lisa. So then I google for “Lisa” and hey, she dumped him in 2006. So I wonder how he’s feeling about the superiority of LTR over Game? Wonder how Tom Cruise feels about it?
So given that you cannot trust her in almost any way, (at minimum, you are a fool if you do not respect the possibilities and the odds), then how could possibly trust any of these “higher values” that you refer? What good is she to you other than as a sexual being. In some blog it spoke of the Hierarchy of Love, maybe here. Men love women, women love children, children love kitties. She cannot return the same love that you give to her in the same manner a child cannot return love to his parents in the same way that they love him. You have to assume that your wife is going fuck you in court. You almost are a fool to sign a contract with her. You are fool to marry her, to mix finances with her, to even make plans for your old age with her. You wrote of War Brides and how they are adapted through evolution to switch allegiance on a dime when it fits her purpose. You are fool to have children with her. The act of having children increases your legal jeopardy so much that it is practically suicide financially. The list of reasons to not trust anything she does or says is getting so long that you don’t have enough characters possible in this comment block. What is a legitimate question and what is shit test? What is legitimate request for help from her and what is a domination to place you the role of kitchen bitch? Coco Chanel said “Women are the strong ones. Men use woman as a little pillow that they can lay their heads on. They seek the mother that held them as infants.” Fuck, I’m grown ass man. So you bet your ass I won’t lay my head on another woman again in that manner as long I live. I won’t seek that same intimacy I used to look for when I was 20. Fuck that. She’ll be thinking I’m an infant. So that’s all over. I can go on and on.
So if she isn’t your friend or you can’t really be truly intimate with her or she isn’t your trusted financial partner or the trusted mother of your children or any way, the person that you think has your back, then what is her value to you other than something to fuck? Then why shouldn’t men only measure her by SMV? What good is she when it drops off the graph? She don’t mean a thing if she ain’t got that zing.
Sorry Rollo, you may have your great LTR and everything but when is it gonna blow up in your face? My sister and I are having knock down fights. My nephew is getting married in October and every one wants me to stay away from him and I am like “you fools. You are going to ruin his life. She will divorce him”. The women in my family all have a lot of “well if this and if that, if he does this, and they are both college educated and we look to at the half of marriages that work and yada yada” and a whole lot of contingent reasoning. My way, Plate theory, Game etc is 100% sure. He may not be happy but I can guarantee he won’t be as unhappy as he will be when this marriage comes crashing down.
So if women have ruined everything about them and the only thing they are good for is sex, then why shouldn’t we judge them only, and I mean only, as potential sexual partners?
I ain’t fucking bitter. My ass is educated and aware. This is legitimate intellectual question.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
@ John Galt
Your an idiot for tapping it in the first place let alone as many times as you claim which is not humanly possible. If it is you can rest assured you have every STD microism and disease, known, unknown and those still evolving she picked up during her 10 YEARS of drugs and partying. ANY girl who is into drugs and partying is EASY and has a very high number count! Let alone 10 full years!
That is absolutely disgusting.
You just licked shit off a very dirty stick pal. Suggest you get and STD test. If you escape with anything less than HPV – it was only by sheer dumb luck.
May 25th, 2013 at 9:09 pm
[…] Value-Added – He’s SpecialFree Northerner responded to my response. I really don’t have […]
May 18th, 2014 at 4:35 pm
[…] genuine appreciation of women. They certainly appreciate them on a by-need basis, and as a ‘value added‘ benefit, but the esoteric, self-actualizing concerns men believe women should prioritize as […]