The Anger Bias

I don’t think it will come as a shock to my readers, or anyone who follows me on Twitter or on the Red Pill Reddit forum, that I’ve gone to bat in recent months to combat the (often deliberate) misperception that self-described ‘Red Pill’ men are inherently angry men. As such, we’re also meant to presume these ‘angry men’ have a potential for violence or at best self-loathing.

The idea, of course, is proposed that “the guys in TRP are just embittered, deeply hurt men who’ve taken the truths that Red Pill awareness has presented to them and converted it to a real, genuine misogyny”. Furthermore, the convention is proposed that these guys cannot come to terms with their own failures and want to blame them all on women, or at the very least an unkind, unforgiving, pro-female world in which they’ve always struggled (i.e. “losers want to blame their losing on women”). Thus, these ‘bitter terpers’ (TRPers) promote either hostility towards women, or they attempt to check themselves out of the sexual marketplace entirely by “going their own way”. In either case, it’s proposed that it’s men’s inherent anger that motivates them to an anti-woman mindset.

I addressed much of this misguided argument in my essay Anger Management:

But are we angry? I can’t say that I haven’t encountered a few guys on some forums and comment threads who I’d characterize as angry judging from their comments or describing their situations. For the greater whole I’d say the manosphere is not angry, but the views we express don’t align with a feminine-primary society. Men expressing a dissatisfaction with feminine-primacy, men coming together to make sense of it, sound angry to people who’s sense of comfort comes from what the feminine imperative has conditioned them to.

Most of the men who’ve expressed a genuine anger with me aren’t angry with women, but rather they’re angry with themselves for having been blind to the Game that they’d been a part of for so long in their blue-pill ignorance. They’re angry that they hadn’t figured it out sooner.

I understand that a lot of what is written in the manosphere can certainly be interpreted as coming from a source for anger. When I (or anyone else) outline the fundaments of hypergamy for instance, there’s a lot to be angry about for a man. Women get pissed because it exposes an ugly truth that the feminine exhausts a lot of resources to keep under the rug, but for men, learning about the feral reasons for feminine (and masculine) behaviors often enough cause a guy to become despondent or angry. That impression should never be the basis for a Man’s Game, nor is it ever really an aspect of internalizing Game that will benefit him personally.

Anger bias and attribution to men is an easy follow for a social order predicated on empowering and protecting the feminine. From an egalitarian mindset that insists on socially constructed equalism between the sexes it’s ironic that the attribution of a default anger to men, and the conventionally masculine, is something entirely unique to the male sex. To the feminine-primary mindset, all-is-one until a negative trait unique to the male biology serves a purpose, and a positive trait unique to women is flattering for them. Then the ideals of social constructionism are suspended insofar as biology agrees with a feminine-primary social order.

I would also argue that predisposed anger is just one attribute the Feminine Imperative finds useful in men to create operative social conventions. The default presumption of mens predisposition to anger is the basis of most domestic legislation (paternity, domestic violence, child custody, etc.) between men and women.

This is a convenient social constructivism based (ostensibly) on egalitarian equality until a particular emotion or personal quality is predominantly attributable to one sex in the positive or negative; then it’s the ‘differences’, not the similarities, between the sexes that make for social control. It’s funny how we’re all equal, blank-slates until anger is better attributed to “toxic” masculinity and some preternatural capacity for empathy in women are beliefs the Feminine Imperative reinforces in its cultural context.

Anger is a useful emotion for fem-centrism. It’s all too easy to classify men’s propensity for anger (and associated violence) as ‘toxic’ yet women’s anger is something transformative and empowering. This connects back to the social efforts of the past five generations designed to feminize men and masculinize women; the inverse traits that would be conventional to one gender are encouraged as positive traits in the opposite gender.

This may be somewhat remedial for my regular readers, but I’m reviewing this because it illustrates a dichotomy that a Blue Pill mindset is all too ready to accept. To the equalist ideology, biological gender-specific truths are only a minor factor in the human condition – unless the truth of that gender-specific biological fact is something advantageous to the feminine and disadvantageous to the masculine.

For instance, to suggest that women’s evolved neurological capacity for communication makes them more intuitive and sensitive to verbal and nonverbal sub-communication we’re supposed to embrace this biological fact as something that sets women apart as ‘special’ or evidence of women being “more evolved”. But when we suggest that men outclass women in cognitive spatial ability, or neurological gender differences in rational abstract thinking gives men a biological advantage in areas like mathematics, then male professors lose their tenured jobs for expressing these facts publicly. If a biological difference is flattering to women it’s an exception to the blank-slate ideology; if a difference is unflattering to women it’s considered evidence of an institutionalized sexism on the part of men.

For all purposes, a social order founded on the blank-slate ideology of egalitarian equalism (serving the Feminine Imperative) regularly, and ruthlessly, quashes any discourse of biological gender differences – unless those factual differences are flattering to the feminine and/or damning of the masculine.

Anger Bias

One biological difference equalism is happy to promote is the notion that men are biologically predisposed to anger, aggression and violence. The motivating impetus behind this anger is rarely something the equalist mind will consider, but that men are predominantly, naturally, more ‘angry’ than women is a meme that is actively encouraged. If anything, this biological fact is a root basis for the cultural concept of “toxic” masculinity.

However, the fact does remain, healthy men possess 12 to 17 times the biogenous serum testosterone that women do. This naturally predisposes men to be more muscular, hairy, lower voices, libidinous and yes, aggressive. It’s no secret that statistically men are biologically more prone to anger, aggression and potentially violence. In a feminine-correct social context this natural predilection is the basis of all masculine attributes being ‘toxic’, if for no other reason than it presents a threat to women’s social control.

For all this, the male gender-bias towards presumption of anger has a foundation in evolutionary psychology. Men will always be considered more angry than women because of an evolutionary adaptation known as Error Management. And in men’s case, this anger attribution is a species-survival adaptation. The following quotes originate from a study called, Seeing storms behind the clouds: Biases in the attribution of anger. This experimental study, and another similar study (If looks could kill), come to us courtesy of Dr. Martie Haselton and her colleagues in the evo-psych department at UCLA. These studies outline the inherent biases towards anger all humans theoretically harbor subconsciously.

Anger-prone individuals are volatile and frequently dangerous. Accordingly, inferring the presence of this personality trait in others was important in ancestral human populations. This inference, made under uncertainty, can result in two types of errors: underestimation or overestimation of trait anger. Averaged over evolutionary time, underestimation will have been the more costly error, as the fitness decrements resulting from physical harm or death due to insufficient vigilance are greater than those resulting from lost social opportunities due to excessive caution. We therefore hypothesized that selection has favored an upwards bias in the estimation of others’ trait anger relative to estimations of other traits not characterized by such an error asymmetry.

Anger attribution to physical and gender cues is an “adaptive rationality”. In other words, it’s probably better to err on the side of caution and misattribute anger to an individual displaying even marginal cues of a potential for aggression (for instance, they hold implements or tools that could cause physical harm) than to miss that cue and wind up dead or injured.

Moreover, we hypothesized that additional attributes that 1) make the actor more dangerous, or 2) make the observer more vulnerable increase the error asymmetry with regard to inferring anger-proneness, and should therefore correspondingly increase this overestimation bias.

This is an important distinction to make when we extrapolate this theory to a larger social scope. When the actors (men in our case) are made to appear more dangerous, or the observers (women & feminized men) are made to feel more vulnerable there is an increase in the perception that the actors are in fact more prone to anger (asymmetrical error attribution).

Adaptive rationality and error management

The “adaptive rationality” approach contends that the mind was shaped by selection to enhance fitness in ancestral environments rather than to yield accurate judgments. Therefore, human cognition can manifest seemingly irrational biases that are, in fact, “adaptively rational.”

I explored this topic in my essay, Vestiges.

Anger attribution is one domain in which this might occur. Perceivers can commit one of two errors: underestimate an individual’s trait anger (false negative) or overestimate it (false positive). On average, underestimations will have been costlier than overestimations in ancestral populations: assuming that an anger-prone individual was temperate placed the perceiver at risk of assault, whereas assuming that a temperate individual was anger-prone merely led to foregoing potentially profitable interactions. Thus, overall accuracy (i.e., committing false negative and false positive errors with equal frequency) did not maximize fitness over evolutionary time. Rather, in line with error management theory, we hypothesize that selection favored a biased tendency to commit the less costly false positive — overestimating trait anger. Although the same logic applies to the estimations of state anger, our predictions focus squarely on trait anger because traits predict future behavior, and it is costly to underestimate an individual’s anger not only in the moment, but also in future interactions.

For the Red Pill aware, what I’m suggesting is that there is an evolved predisposition to perceive men as generally more prone to anger, and thereby more susceptible to aggression/violence, than may in fact be the actual case with men individually. Largely, as a man, you will always be perceived as potentially angrier than a woman.

Contextual factors can influence this asymmetry, resulting in a concomitant increase in biases in the perception of a given emotion. Anger motivates aggression, hence an important contextual factor in anger perception is the capacity of the perceived individual to inflict harm. The greater the capacity to harm, the more costly it is to underestimate the extent to which the target is angry, and therefore the more that perception should be biased in favor of overestimation.

I would argue here that men’s state in western(izing) cultures is one that grossly exaggerates men’s overall potential for anger, and by extension violence. Presuming that Red Pill men are “a bunch of angry misogynists” is one such error, but it is also a useful one in that it plays upon this overestimation of anger in men on whole. This anger attribution in men will always be an easy method of poisoning the well or creating straw men arguments from which opponents of Red Pill awareness will dismiss valid, factual arguments.

As you might guess, this male anger bias is a simple tool to use – and one I unfortunately see being employed by many Purple Pill dating coaches who’d like to dissuade their clientele from the less marketable aspects of Red Pill awareness. Anything Red Pill that disagrees with their feminine-sanitized advice is conveniently dismissed as “negative” or the rantings of angry, bitter, burned men. It becomes “Truthful Anger”, but their emphasis is always on the anger part rather than the truth that would kick a leg out from under their positivity marketing scheme.

The default state of women and feminized men is one of a presumed vulnerability due to a persistent social characterization of a default female victimhood in popular culture and media. Likewise, men are portrayed as quick to anger – all in spite of generations of effort spent in Blue Pill conditioning of men to be ideally passive, supportive, non-assertive and entirely less masculinized. Despite all that sensitivity conditioning, from the earliest ages, the default presumption that’s still popularly reinforced is that men are always the angry/violent ones. Domestic violence laws presume a man is always the attacker and always the party to be removed from the home because of this preconception.

Both the Feminine Imperative and even well meaning Red Pill men default to this overestimation. I get that this is largely merited on whole as a characteristic of men. This error management is a useful and pragmatic adaptation, but it is also a useful foil for dismissing men on whole. It’s interesting that I’d be pilloried for expressing that the realities of women’s menstrual cycle predispose them to ovulatory shift, as well as anti-social, behaviors, yet were I to explain that testosterone predisposes men to aggression we largely accept this as a given.

My intent in this essay isn’t to say men aren’t as angry as their evolutionary nature makes them. The point is that a feminine-primary social order readily makes this nature a useful tool in dismissing what would otherwise be valid, but uncomfortable Red Pill truth. This anger bias mechanism is a tool for message control.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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cheupez
4 years ago

Except in this case the female craves what will likely hurt her. Almost like the moth and the flame or the deer running towards the worst of the wolves.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Law and society
http://wp.me/p10w4n-4XO

ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

Righteous anger.

http://www.jesus-story.net/images/800px-Valentin_de_Boulogne_Expulsion_of_the_Money-Changers_from_the_Temple.jpg

Jesus’ expulsion of the money changers in the temple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Rd9XcHRik

When anger is unencumbered by the rules of engagement.
And a president addressing a nation’s anger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziV5wpZIZI4

Boys will be boys.

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
4 years ago

There are still some tribal cultures in this world today where if your wife burns the food you can divorce her pretty much on the spot and your anger at her laziness in destroying a valuable scarce resource (food) will be seen as entirely justified. Meanwhile in the good old USA and other parts of the west we have bitches using tinder and other social media to get betas to send them pizzas etc just for a chance to chat with them!! Something is wrong, very wrong. But I ain’t mad atcha! Got nothing but love for ya, do your… Read more »

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
4 years ago

It’s all too easy to classify men’s propensity for anger (and associated violence) as ‘toxic’ yet women’s anger is something transformative and empowering.

No sooner published than proven –

https://ovarianpsycos.com/

“Ovaries so big we don’t need no fuckin’ balls!”

Walawala
Walawala
4 years ago

@Playdont… The existence of beta orbiters who are all too ready to validate any emotion of a girl they’re trying to bang makes spinning plates mandatory. Women lap up attention from orbiters because they don’t have to work for it. Attention from orbiters is like sex on demand from a girl by alphas…. But the competitive nature of women makes the orbiter a mere pivot for something better. A few years back a girl who broke up with me rather cruelly tried seducing me back after I ignored her and hung out with other girls. When she came back she… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Better version of self
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7B0Fzcl2w

KL
KL
4 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman This blog fairly teaches men to make “rational” choices in response to feminine manipulation and the Feminine Imperative. But denying the existence of anger in the Manosphere is as silly as denying the existence of batshit crazy feminists. WeHuntedtheMammoth documents this extensively. Elam’s “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” and Roosh’s “Legalize Rape” are bad satire that thinly veils their hostility. Frustration and dissatisfaction galvanize the Manosphere. This sometimes spurs self-improvement or helping your fellow man (like this blog). But it often leads to toxic misogyny. Notwithstanding this, Mencken had a point: A misogynist is a man who hates women… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago
Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

KL
But denying the existence of anger in the Manosphere

Is an example of a common logical fallacy: https://infogalactic.com/info/Straw_man

WeHuntedtheMammoth

Manbooby David Futrelle is a male feminist. Feminists deny science routinely on the topic of women and men. Therefore feminists are not reliable on such topics, because they prefer their quasi-religious beliefs to reality.

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
4 years ago

But denying the existence of anger in the Manosphere is as silly as denying the existence of batshit crazy feminists. Sure, there’s anger — I don’t think anyone is denying that, not least of all Rollo in this post. However, much of the anger is either (1) anger phase (with some people never leaving that phase, but most moving on after a point), which typically passes with time or (2) anger against feminism/feminists, which persists after the anger phase, and is very well justified socio-political anger, as opposed to anger at all women, which leads to misogyny. It’s quite possible… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_qyqRARqp/?tagged=imbeckb&hl=en

“they’re just children”

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“they’re just children” Yes, but for some men that is recursive to anger in a LTR. This came up recently for a buddy in real life. And it came up 12 years ago for me when I read Deida for the first time. Also why Deida, who I’ll admit is latent Blue or Purple, can’t be read by some men via a Red Pill lens. It’s because it’s rare that your feminine partner can have value rise above just being a child-like woman. What most red pill men can’t admit to themselves in that situation is that SHE is a… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago
SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“Girly anger…”

Beats out girly indifference….

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@Rollo: Off-topic:
1) Belated birthday greetings. Many happy returns.
2) The film Evolution may interest you. My take: it is a film about the FI but is disguised as a “sci-fi thriller” to appease females. Regardless of the interpretation, the film is visually stunning and sparse in dialogue – almost Hemingwayesque. There are a couple of displays of “anger” probably falling in line with your article: females will see aggression while males will see motivation.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Shit test
http://wp.me/p3aTD-aTM
Happy birthday Rollo as time passes each day is lived and focused on self. Ego is put back in it’s place. I’ve grown a lot with your help.

Black Pill
Black Pill
4 years ago

The main effect the red pill is having on me isn’t anger. Rather it’s making me feel like I absolutely cannot trust women in a romantic context. I don’t think I will ever really trust one again. I also know that although I have learned to fake it well, that even though I have many skills, am big and strong, that I am not, cannot be, the alpha they need me to be. I can hold the mask on for as long as it takes to get some, but afterwards, I am who I am, and I’m not Chadzan, Roided… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

I also know that although I have learned to fake it well, that even though I have many skills, am big and strong, that I am not, cannot be, the alpha they need me to be.

Bang, the answer to your FR. Mask slipped.

Black Pill
Black Pill
4 years ago

@Sentient it’s the truth. Not knocking myself, just know who I am. I’m plenty tough and brave, but not at the level that women need to subconsciously need.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

black pill The main effect the red pill is having on me isn’t anger. Rather it’s making me feel like I absolutely cannot trust women in a romantic context. I don’t think I will ever really trust one again. This is part of the anger phase. You can deal with it, or get stuck in it. Being stuck won’t help you live better, won’t help you reach goals, is actually detrimental to your mission – whatever that may be. So deal with it. Maybe write down something like “trust levels”. How much do you trust a barrista? How much do… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

What is love?
http://wp.me/pXWyH-bpB

ksoto
ksoto
4 years ago

my anger stems from blown expectations, so its all on me, building up a fantasy of married life as never ending porno-shoots starring the same two actors. Initially upon finding red pill data, I concluded “just not with my wife”, but soon it starts to dawn on me that the menu item we I want to order isn’t available on any menu. I wanted filet mignon, and the only thing on the menu is Balogna. Reassessing life desires from there, since a future of porno-sex and endless daily pleasure means picking from the few other pleasures life has to offer,… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Culture
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jvv

ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

@SJF From the link you provided on building frame. Strengthening Frame “Remember, “positive” frames are entirely defined by their ability to help us in the pursuit of our goals. That means that, in order to set positive frames, we need to know what our goals are. This can be surprisingly difficult. For many of us – myself included – we’ve been so bombarded by instructions on what we should want, from our wives, from our families, from society at large, that we’re profoundly out of touch with what we actually want.” I’ve been thinking about this a lot. The mental… Read more »

Black Pill
Black Pill
4 years ago

@anonymous reader yeah it is the FI driving this feeling, which in turn comes from observations in the field. Part of my thing these days is to go out and just watch the dynamics between the sexes at bars and pubs, see it for what it is. Lately what I am noticing is hypergamy has been turned to maximum for any girl over a 6. That in turn broadcasts immediately ‘you’re not good enough’, not just to me, but to the male gender at large. You might feel like you are good enough, but the fact is these broads, many… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

@SJF If you subscribe to the notion, the criteria for SMV contains several factors and requires an overall threshold to achieve an SMV rating. Then I would describe a man I knew. He was a 10 in looks, a 10 in social awareness\cues and had natural game (8 or 9). Where he fell short was his academic credentials. He had trouble doing the basics. Reading and writing properly. Intellectual conversations were not his thing. This is a man, who you could take to a lesbian bar and find him an hour later french kissing a girl, while fingering her. He… Read more »

Black Pill
Black Pill
4 years ago

@ollieoxenfree1 what do you mean ‘the act of sex hurts a woman?’ Just an anecdote I have that’s worth sharing. A friend of mine did a massage therapy course to earn an extra income. While he’s doing the source the trainer tells him this story: When he first started as a massage therapist he noticed that most of his clients were men. He then had a few experiences where men would get up after a massage and give him a hug. After this happened a few times one of the guys tells him ‘thanks, it has been years since someone… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
4 years ago

@Black Pill Lately what I am noticing is hypergamy has been turned to maximum for any girl over a 6. That in turn broadcasts immediately ‘you’re not good enough’, not just to me, but to the male gender at large. You might feel like you are good enough, but the fact is these broads, many of whom have nothing to offer, True dat, but it looks more to me even 3s and 4s approaching 50 are turning on hypergamy full blast. They might be banging guys in succession and discarding them for frivolous reasons or like one recent 48yo last… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
4 years ago

How’s that for a glimpse into the living hell of the married incel beta

Hehe, been there done that. Sometimes I want to go back and bang sugar babies on the side. At least then with two incomes I could afford it.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

http://www.metronews.ca/content/dam/thestar/uploads/2016/2/15/02-16-hal2-halifaxheroesjh.jpg

I agree women seem content to be single for long periods of time without getting any action.

Meanwhile at the corner of Rationalization and Reality Streets, de Catz, de be multahplyin’…

comment image

enter the dildo… again…

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

OT – Rollo this might be an interesting image for a post… because the “Alpha” bro looks scared… Performance anxiety? Burden?

comment image

Agent P
Agent P
4 years ago

@sentient,
yep, I have one of those living a few doors down, single mom. to be fair, she is a widow, she just never got perma-hooked up again.
Anyhow, three cats in the house and a dildo in the night drawer and a copy of fifty shades at the bedside. Not a bad looking woman, for 45 but she smokes so she’s aging out faster than she has to. Not bitchy empowered woman or anything, actually seems pretty feminine but she never pings that she is looking to hook up with any man in general.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

“she never pings that she is looking to hook up with any man in general.”

Yeah she’s taken herself off the market. These kinds are ripe for being swept off their feet… just like in the novels…

comment image

having a bad day
having a bad day
4 years ago

@Black Pill @anonymous reader yeah it is the FI driving this feeling, which in turn comes from observations in the field. Part of my thing these days is to go out and just watch the dynamics between the sexes at bars and pubs, see it for what it is. that’s THE goal of the RP… you are getting there, but i think you need to expand your focus… the FI is cunning and PERVASIVE… Lately what I am noticing is hypergamy has been turned to maximum for any girl over a 6. That in turn broadcasts immediately ‘you’re not good… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@ollieoxenfree1 April 4, 2017 at 3:24 am Cool story Bro. But the J factor in my INTJ personality would call your protagonist a fucking idiot. No, he was was not in an optimal scenario for a man: ….Where he fell short was his academic credentials. He had trouble doing the basics. Reading and writing properly. Intellectual conversations were not his thing. He grew tired of this and settled down with a woman 7 years older than him. She was a 5 on the SMV scale…… That’s just Stupid is as Stupid Does. I’m not sure about the thesis of your… Read more »

Agent P
Agent P
4 years ago

“Yeah she’s taken herself off the market. These kinds are ripe for being swept off their feet… just like in the novels…”

True that is, but she ain’t gonna get THAT guy in the picture is she?

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

“True that is, but she ain’t gonna get THAT guy in the picture is she?”

No, but the guy who makes her feel that way will have the same effect on her…

Consider it an act of kindness on your part, bringing light into the darkness, helping widows… LOL

having a bad day
having a bad day
4 years ago

@ollieoxenfree1 This is a man, who you could take to a lesbian bar and find him an hour later french kissing a girl, while fingering her. He was that good. He grew tired of this and settled down with a woman 7 years older than him. She was a 5 on the SMV scale. this guy was BP… but good at game (which he saw as only something single guys did until they ‘grew up’… = FI in play)… just like Mystery or those guys at RSD, etc… he wasn’t RP at all… But this girl was very manly in… Read more »

Agent P
Agent P
4 years ago

“Every year, countless young men find themselves trapped in the Friend Zone, a prison where women place any man they deem worthy of their time but not their hearts, men they’d love to have dinner with but, for whatever reason, don’t want to kiss goodnight.”

http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/04/men-women-can-never-just-friends/#disqus_thread

Well the hypergamy is coming into focus, but with it so is the denial of this by conservatives, again.

j
j
4 years ago

@DisgruntledEarthling

“Either they’re holier-than-thou Puritans or discreetly getting banged on the side and not acknowledging it fully. With my newly-RPed eyes, I’m betting on the latter”

Ya secret society brah

Fred Flange, mostly deaf
Fred Flange, mostly deaf
4 years ago

@habd Co-sign your take on Ollie’s bad beta good Game friend. Indeed he gamed enough to find a woman who he thought would mother and supervise him, be the fartsmeller in the house. Now that Ollie’s friend’s HB5 wife is in charge she holds only contempt for him. (Kind of like how Beach Boy Brian Wilson operates, he needs his wife or someone to kick him in the head and keep him focused and working, while she manages the money because he honestly can’t be bothered. This deal works for him apparently, not so much for anyone else, ‘cos you’re… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“It takes time and an intense level of introspection to know what we really want.”

And so I pose the question to men, what did you want when you were 12-16 years old? Sometimes that is enough to provide answers. Often it isn’t, abut it’s almost always at least a start.

OK, so at 48 the professional football player dream is long gone, but what is it about football that attracts you and what else has those attributes?

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago
Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Fred Flange, the deaf leopard to AgentP

You see this Federalist columnist guy is a Churchian. So of course he Just Don’t Get It.

Yes.
Blue pill men especially BP Churchians are all about negotiation of desire. Because they believe in the blank slate. The best thing they have is “Love Languages” which can be useful but is no substitute for The Glasses / Red Pill.

walawala
walawala
4 years ago

I live in a city of like 5 million people…I’m on the train today, I turn around and staring at me is the crazy ex I hard nexted 3 months ago after she had a melt-down calling me all sorts of names and then later throwing herself at one of my friends. I was pissed at the way she acted but have been totally no contact for 3 months. She was staring at me. Our eyes locked. I realized who it was in that momentary lapse where you haven’t seen someone up close for such a long time. I walked… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
4 years ago

“what did you want when you were 12-16 years old?” I wanted to be a garbageman, drive an el camino and finger every pretty girl I saw. garbagemen work outside, don’t have a boss hovering over them and drive a monster truck that can crush a man inside it. an el camino is a car and a bed. I thought this was awesome. I had no idea how important ground clearance was so I’d probably swap it out for a late 90s tacoma or something like it. same idea though. fingering is a funny thing. I think it’s a sign… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

” . . . work outside, don’t have a boss hovering over them and drive a monster truck that can crush a man inside it.” There ya go. “I had no idea how important ground clearance was . . .” I don’t need the ground clearance these days (I’m not up a dirt road in Vermont in mud season), so if I could by a new ’72 Datsun 620 I’d be sorely tempted. They can be tweaked to give the performance of a ten years older basic sports car, but instead of a trunk barely big enough to hold an… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

One of the autocompletes that showed up on my search “Datsun 620”:

datsun 620 V8 swap

Not quite the same as filling the back seat of a VW Beetle with a V8, but close.

Agent P
Agent P
4 years ago

“what did you want when you were 12-16 years old?” I wanted a Ford Bronco with a lift kit that I used to drive by every weekend on the way to the ski hill. I ended up getting a Chevy Panel van which my brother and I fitted out with a bed for travelling to our various remote sports events we competed in, also had all our tools etc in it. Turns out the clearance that matters is not ground clearance so much as the space between the bed and the roof of the car. It seems there was enough… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“Of course I wanted to bang every female I possibly could.” That’s why I start with 12, to take that as much as possible out of the equation. Younger and the results can be a bit too childish. Older and it always turns into fucking, and the point is to focus on mission. Somewhere in your youthful past you had an obsession or three that had nothing to do with women or fucking. That is what you want, in some form, now, irrespective of the societal expectation and the pushing of the FI. Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Sailor, Rich Man, Poor… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

As expanded by A. A. Milne: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, rich man, poor man, beggar man, thief, Or what about a cowboy, policeman, jailer, engine driver, or a pirate chief? Or what about a ploughman or a keeper at the zoo, Or what about a circus man who lets the people through? Or the man who takes the pennies on the roundabouts and swings, Or the man who plays the organ or the other man who sings? Or what about the rabbit man with rabbits in his pockets And what about a rocket man who’s always making rockets? Oh it’s… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

I’m a little bit constrained right now, but I want to play this game. “It takes time and an intense level of introspection to know what we really want.” “…what did you want when you were 12-16 years old?” I wanted freedom from parental constraint, while meanwhile retaining the benefits of parental provisioning. “…but what is it about football that attracts you and what else has those attributes? Your basic motivation is to be released from constraint and experience the freedom on the other side. What are some of the most common forms of masculine ecstasy? Orgasm is one. The… Read more »

Agent P
Agent P
4 years ago

OK well if chicks were off the table then, I was very lucky when I was a kid because I knew what I wanted to do. Either design fast boats or design buildings. OK, both missions accomplished, can I just fuck chicks now? Not kidding, I am very lucky to have known what I wanted to do and managed to continue to be into that from early adolescence until current day. I pretty much always knew that I wanted that, I was lucky because I never had to wander in the wilderness wondering what the fuck I was going to… Read more »

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

. . . what did you want when you were 12-16 years old?

A gold medal in the biathlon. 100 acres mixed field and woodland to train. Build a log cabin. A forge to hammer out pointy things.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“I pretty much always knew that I wanted that, I was lucky because I never had to wander in the wilderness wondering what the fuck I was going to do with my life like so many others . . .” Right, the exercise is for those others who begin to awaken from their Blue Pill haze, only to discover that they have been defined by the motivations of others and don’t know where to look for their own, because it has been so long since they felt free to do so. At the top of the list of most men… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@SJB:

Q.E.D. (that if civilization were left in the hands of men we’d all be living in deer camps)

ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

@Black Pill Apr 4 01:51am If you saw the SJF link on ‘how to build frame’. It mentions social proof and belief as prime requisites to creating frame for yourself. A woman gets her social proof from men’s attention. But in a FI culture where men are taught, anything conveying sexual interest is sexual harassment. You now get a generation of men who learn to avoid overt signs of interests. This leaves women in the predicament of having to generate social proof for themselves. A woman’s currency is her looks and women soon learn to apply make up like the… Read more »

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@kfg: Without a doubt: Paradise. Yet Paradise Lost.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

” A woman’s currency is her looks and women soon learn to apply make up like the Kim Kardashians and Amber Heards of this world and believe to some extent they are them. In the sense that now, they look like them, they can be considered desirable.
The media informs them these women are the height of beauty and attractiveness.”

http://cdn-01.independent.ie/incoming/article34754260.ece/1ce5e/AUTOCROP/w620/kim%201.jpg

http://stylesatlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Amber-Heard-without-makeup6.jpg

…. technically the women that believe they are them , kinda are in some respects – because they are all just…. girls.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“Play must continue if the game is to continue.” Damn. I was thinking that one day it will be done. If I can work enough, then one day I can rest indefinitely. And that one day my woman will understand something and she will stop complaining. Or that I’m only doing this now so that one day I can do what I really want with my life. I didn’t know it was a masculine error to think that eventually things will be different in some fundamental way. I was hoping for a completion in life. BTW, KFG, thanks for clarifying… Read more »

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@kfg, : It’s good to remember that age just prior to hormone loading; neuroplasticity gives, neuroplasticity takes away.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Conservative
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jwQ

Agent P
Agent P
4 years ago

Can’t get no love…..or the flak is usually heaviest over the best targets
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/protests-prompt-calgary-theatre-to-cancel-mens-rights-films-and-become-target-of-a-backlash-against-protest

or, can’t get no love, what, chemicals don’t effect desire in women!
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/0405-na-testosterone

Long story short, if you don;t have the RP, you’re fucked.

cheupez
4 years ago

Red pill movie is of course misogynistic. Misogyny being: When a beta dares do what only an alpha should do.

A woman will be riding some drunk guy and be like, “Spread my ass. Yes! Hard! Harder! Harder!!!” Then she cums all over the place and collapses into a pathetic somnolent heap. What would be horribly humiliating to her when done by a beta is wildly erotic in the hands of a percieved alpha.

Sigh.

Fred Flange, mostly deaf
Fred Flange, mostly deaf
4 years ago

@Agent P

Which proves my earlier point that The Red Pill movie, whatever you gents may think of it, still “fills a useful void.” Sure it’s a cute easy-on-the-eyes feminist’s impressions of what MRA’s are like, and they are all on their best behavior so they appear nice enough (why not?). But it seems even this way-watered down peek through the peephole is too much for the Death-eaters to tolerate above-ground in any form.

Though from the story it looks like some showing is back on again, they’re just not sure at what venue.

Agent P
Agent P
4 years ago

I personally find it interesting how the RP movie plays out. From our perspective its watered down, narrow, ill informed even. But let loose in the main stream and it’s lethally toxic stuff, OMG, must be banned immediately. The hysterics by the women’s studies departments is telling. I think they’ve been running their own show for so long in such well insulated bubbles that anything that crosses their view of the world is lethally dangerous and must be stamped out. I say let them freak out. If a few more men find the red pill because of the smoke and… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

Hey guys, is Woody Allen beta?

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

@Rollo

How can you humanize the Red Pill? The winners get to fuck whoever they want and get offers from women they don’t. The Rest eat shit and die.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Yollo

” How can you humanize the Red Pill? The winners get to fuck whoever they want and get offers from women they don’t. The Rest eat shit and die.”

Red Pill is already humanized. It’s Blue Pill/betahood that’s inhumane.

Winners gonna win. Hence the descriptor.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

See this is why the gun was invented.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

And hormonal birth control for that matter.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

Tch Paul Elam has been trying to make a cash cow out of the MRM for most of his adult life.

According to the Rules, he’s being a winner here.

It doesn’t contain any stipulations for reserving your perspective on human relations.

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)
Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)
4 years ago

For the record, I don’t care if the Red Pill fem-doc sells anything, even Jenner flavored Pepsi. I don’t think the controversy will sell any red pill type message as such. As a free speech absolutist I defend its right to be shown. Were it to play locally I would most likely give it a miss unless an outcry arose. Then I might buy a ticket and some popcorn just to piss off Ms. Trans Europe Express screaming in protest and pulling the fire alarm.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Rollo
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jwT

cheupez
4 years ago

Well, there goes the red pill movie. Might as well just go south. Some things are hard to publicize that directly anyway. Is why you dont want to be caught reading the TRM. As far as you are concerned you have no idea what tbp/trp is. If a girl asks you what tbp is you should probably just say, ” I think it is viagra.” A woman does not like being watched putting on make up or getting a breast implant. (They secretly wish their boobs were real and they didnt need it.) Game is covert. Where I come from… Read more »

If-I-Fell
If-I-Fell(@if-i-fell)
4 years ago

I HAVE AN ANGER PROBLEM (OFF-TOPIC RANT) I know it’s beta behavior and still, why do I have such difficulty in staying angry when it’s appropriate, or more accurately harnessing this anger into purposeful action? I have always had trouble staying angry. I used to have the habit of whacking my leg with the tennis racket to motivate myself through anger. Whenever, I see my old partner, he never fails to mention this. I, of course, remind him that I used to thrash him regularly. The question remains why can’t I stay mad without pain or insults? THESE HAPPENED IN… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
4 years ago

Absolutely. It IS all bullshit. This is the worst kind of faux documentary “The audience is intelligent enough to decide for itself while I, Saint Cassie, forced myself to remain silent and non-judgmental during my adventures with my piece of self-promoting self-aggrandizement” drivel. This thing failed the moment it was greenlit to have a female, dyed-in-the-wool feminist write, direct, edit and produce (gosh she’s so talented). Why? Because, as Rollo points out, her and the co-producers’) desires to present TRP in a non-judgmental light is a huge horseshit smokescreen to hide the real underlying message: that we noble feminists are… Read more »

anon
anon
4 years ago

“The question remains why can’t I stay mad without pain or insults?”

Because the chemicals that cause anger are intended to be short-acting (fight or flight response). To much of them, and they take a physical toll over time…so the body responds by needing a higher threshold to release them.
So, in a nutshell…anger can be a motivation force, but too much anger over a long timeframe will turn into apathy and depression.

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
4 years ago

This thing failed the moment it was greenlit to have a female, dyed-in-the-wool feminist write, direct, edit and produce (gosh she’s so talented). All more evidence why the MRM makes little impact. It is owned by the FI due to playing the game by FI rules. “Women are getting all these rights, men should have rights too!” It’s the flip side of women’s favorite coin for when their behavior is called out – “well, men do it too!” It’s too hard to take them seriously. As I’ve learned about the concept here, MRAs seem like they are caught up in… Read more »

anon
anon
4 years ago

MRA is a “write an angry letter” man.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

If-I-Fell Anger is not the great alpha motivator that that you suggest,an alpha may use a betas anger to motivate the beta,this is trickery. A better form of self motivation comes from creativity,a clear vision of the final product,ego and desire,these are self motivators. These things that you find challenging are really opportunities to expand your network within the company you work with,opportunities to advance your job description. Things that look good in your interview are challenges met and overcome succesfully,projects well completed. LOL they like your training program authority enough to turn a three month job into a nine… Read more »

cheupez
4 years ago

@Stuffinbox I think alpha can be looked at as what man makes the pussy wet. Anger makes for a wet pussy I tell you. If anger is to wet pussy, alpha is likely not too far away from anger. ==================== An attempt to peddle red pill material overtly will inevitably find stiff resistance. Like it is said here from time to time majority of people prefer remaining plugged into the matrix than to face reality. And anyway, the typical alpha is Machiavelian in nature. He will never find it in him to share game with others if he can even… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Rollo
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jwB

anon
anon
4 years ago

“These are the faces the MRM wants you to associate with the “Red Pill”:

Just watched that. I could only get through half.

anon
anon
4 years ago

I wonder if the film is as viscerally nauseating as this interview?
If so, I’m not sure why feminists are outraged. They should applaud.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

@anon

They are not smart enough to figure it out, but the puppeteers pulling their strings laugh at how their outrage cements the ignorant man’s view of finally being “in on it”.

Ugly females, BARK BARK! FEMINISM!! Weak Men YAY SOME UNDERSTANDS MEE!!!

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

If I Fail,
Did you ever decide what your own goals are for that convention trip? Is it networking, shining your boss, or what?

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

While A Voice for Men has put up some useful work, it is still seriously hampered by equalism. Paul Elam’s vision of a “Men’s Human Rights Movement” is cluttered up by the feminists he agrees to work with. This error is surely due to his own Blue Pill / no Glasses mindset.

Begging for scraps from the feminist table is not a dignified or manly position to be in. But that’s one way this movie can be perceived.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Cheupez

Never have tried that anger as used to get her hot although some like the makeup sex.
Most of them get hot just talking to me,I can smell it,no anger involved.

Machiavelian or whatever is a female quality not a princely one and more apt to be displayed by gay or spoiled men that turn manipulative like a woman IMO.

The advice above is for If I Fell,job related..As a boss sometimes showing anger or even discomfort can motivate the help,as an employee doing so will likely get you canned.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“Machiavelian or whatever is a female quality not a princely one . . .”

Prince, in the Machiavellian sense, is an effeminate quality.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Prince, in the Machiavellian sense, is an effeminate quality.

Purple pill for sure.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

What he said,just cuz the dude was a prince don’t make those princely qualities or alpha for that matter dumhere.

Glider
Glider
4 years ago

This should make all RP men angry! Another successful man brought down by a jilted whore in Australia…

abc.net.au/news/2017-04-07/tim-worner-resigns-as-sydney-swans-director/8424152?section=sport

If-I-Fell
If-I-Fell(@if-i-fell)
4 years ago

@ Anonymous Reader Thanks for the insult, sincerely, I needed that. I was being a blue pill little bitch. No time for failure–gotta be game time. Yes networking is the goal. I have two dinners locked in where we will be together. But I arrive earlier, have made contacts, plan to play hide-and-seek, oh I just remembered…I’ll be right back. Will try the, “Why don’t we attend different sessions and direct him to the beginner stuff. Game etc. I applied for a leadership position within the association but didn’t make the cut, but now they want to talk to me… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
4 years ago

@If-I-Fell AR just checking in and barely skimming along bc of my schedule, but this popped out at me… New Issue: strangely enough, believe it or not the wife gave a “hall pass”, saying use a condom if… Don’t plan to use it but many have said game the women, at least walk up to the fence. = shit test… WHY would she do this?… serious question… girls that see you as ‘alpha’ don’t explicate… nor do they overtly ‘give permission’ (and really, whose frame are you in if THAT is even in your situ…)… bc they really want you… Read more »

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