Controlling Interests

controlling

I realize I dropped this quote last week, but it provides us with a unique illustration of the prevailing feminine psychology that’s been evolving since the sexual revolution.

“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead

In last week’s post I made note that Sheryl Sandberg was blissfully ignorant of her blatant admission of feminine hypergamy, but I felt her ‘advice’ to women here represented so much more than just a display of her solipsistic ignorance.

For as long as I’ve butted heads with many obstinate deniers of hypergamy’s influences, on women personally and society on whole, I’m not sure I’ve read a more damning indictment of hypergamy from a more influential woman. Sandberg’s advice to the next generation of women essentially puts the lie to, and exposes the uncomfortable truth about, women’s efforts deny the fundamental dynamic of female sexual strategy – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks.

Even if you want to argue the evolutionary (psychology) and biological origins of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy, the fact is now socially evident; women have come to a point where they’re comfortable in openly admitting the truth that Red Pill awareness has been drawing attention to for over a decade now.

Courtesy of Sheryl Sandberg, the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks basis of women’s sexual pluralism is now publicly recognized. It’s kind of ironic considering that what the manosphere has been trying to make men aware of for years is now being co-opted, embraced and owned as if women had always practiced an open sexual pluralism – incredulous to any man’s shock over it.

However, the truth is that a feminine-centric social order can no longer hide the increasingly obvious fallout and consequences of a society restructured to accommodate women as the predominant sexual interest.

Last week I speculated that Sandberg was ignorant of the feminine-primary implications that her statements draw attention to – and I’m still of the opinion that an innate feminine solipsism motivates more and more women to this admission – but it’s impossible to ignore the new degree of comfort in which women feel in laying bare their dualistic sexual strategy.

To some significant extent the Feminine Imperative no longer needs to keep the ‘Good Genes’ / ‘Good Dad’ dichotomy ugliness a secret from men.

In last week’s post I mentioned that a new ambient sense of an assured long-term security in the feminine mind was predisposing women to prioritize the ‘Best Genes’ (Alpha Fucks) side of feminine hypergamy. Sandberg’s ‘advice’ is a vital confirmation of this, however, she tacitly acknowledges a window of  opportunity during which women possess a better capacity to pursue this side of hypergamy:

The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner.

In these two sentences Sheryl (and by extensions the Feminine Imperative) essentially confirms women’s pluralistic sexual strategy, my (now infamous) sexual market value graph depicting women’s peak SMV and decay, and the first half of the time line of women’s phases of maturity I laid forth in the first two installments of the Preventative Medicine series.

Selling the Beta

With regards to men, I believe the most salient part of Sandberg’s admission is found at the end:

These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.

For the better half of the time since the sexual revolution it was necessary for the Feminine Imperative to convince a majority of men that their eventual Beta providership for women was not only their duty, but also a prime aspect of feminine attraction. As I mentioned last week, under the (pre-sexual revolution) old-order attraction model this may have been the case to a large degree. However after the revolution, and as women’s hypergamy prioritized towards ‘Good Genes’ short-term sexual partners, the ‘Good Dad’ (Beta Bucks) men needed an ever increasing ‘sell’ of their own attractiveness by women.

This persistent sell was a necessary element of ensuring a future long-term security for women while pursuing increasingly more short-term breeding opportunities as feminine-primacy expanded into society. The future ‘Good Dads’ would need to be patiently waiting out women’s “indiscretion years” during their SMV peak, so the sell became an ever-evolving definition of what women found attractive in men based on that old-order model of dependability, patience, industriousness, and every other characteristic that defined a good provider.

Quoted from Why Muscularity is Sexy:

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

From a woman’s perspective, the ideal is to attract a partner who confers both long-term investment benefits and genetic benefits. Not all women, however, will be able to attract long-term investing mates who also display heritable fitness cues. Consequently, women face trade-offs in choosing mates because they may be forced to choose between males displaying fitness indicators or those who will assist in offspring care and be good long-term mates (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000). The most straightforward prediction that follows is that women seeking short-term mates, when the man’s only contribution to offspring is genetic, should prefer muscularity more than women seeking long-term mates.

Strategic pluralism theory is a pretty good definition of feminine hypergamy, but what this theory hadn’t yet accounted for (at the time it was published) was the necessitousness of women with regards to short-term mating strategies and long-term parental investment opportunities over the course of the various phases of maturity as they aged.

The Beta investment sell was necessary because it ensured male parental investment at a later (usually just-pre-Wall) time in a woman’s life. Thus, Sandberg’s praise of men “who think women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. [Men] who value fairness and expect or, even better, want to do his share in the home” will eventually be sexier than the Alpha “bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys” she encourages women to fuck earlier in life is an excellent example of this sell.

Ironically it’s exactly with this sell that women encourage the very transactional nature of sexual relations with men they’re screeching about recently. It’s the Choreplay fallacy on a meta scale – do more around the house, play into the equalitarian schema women think they need in a provider, support her ambitiousness and opinionatedness and you’ll be considered “sexier” and get her Best Sex she’s been saving just for a guy like this.

Building the Beta

The problem the Feminine Imperative runs into with selling the Beta is that as women’s “independence” expands this sell becomes less necessary and less effective. Less necessary because women’s personal, social and legal long-term security insurances have become almost entirely disconnected from men’s direct (not indirect) provisioning. Less effective because men have become increasingly aware of their disenfranchisement of the old-order provisioning model as being something they might equitably be rewarded for.

As the consequences and repercussions of women’s hypergamous priority shift to Alpha Fucks become more evident and real for men; and as their capacity and comfort with connecting and relating these experiences with other men becomes more widespread, the less effective the sell is for Beta men awaiting their turn to enter into a pre or post Wall monogamy with the women attempting the sell.

Throughout the 70’s, 80’s and most of the 90’s, the sell was effective because men were isolated socially and technologically from each other’s relative experiences. From the late 90’s onward that isolation has diminished while the societal results of feminine-primacy have become more glaringly, and painfully, evident to men.

In its ever-reinventive fluidity, the Feminine Imperative found it necessary to transition from selling men on being later and later life long-term providers for women into building a generation of men who would expect of themselves to fulfill that role when the time came. These men would be raised and conditioned to be the patient Beta providers women would need once they had followed the Sandberg model of hypergamy.

These would be the boys / men who would be taught to “naturally” defer to the authority of women under the auspices of a desire to be an equal partner.

These are the men raised privately and created socially to be ready for women, “when it comes time to settle down, and find someone who wants an equal partner.”

These would be the men ready to expect and accept a woman’s proactive cuckoldry of him in the name of being a pro-feminine equal.

These are the men raised to accept an open form of hypergamy in place of the selling to an old-order Beta provisioning model.

The Hypergamy Schism

The problem this creates for women becomes one of dealing with the men they need to sell a secretive hypergamy to and the men they build to accept an open form of hypergamy to. The increasing comfort with an open admission of hypergamy is relative to a woman’s capacity to get away with it.

A woman like Sheryl Sandberg has the means to decisively ensure her future independence and long-term security (at least in the financial sense) whether she’s married or not. She could very well return to the Bad Boys she found so arousing and advises women ‘date’ and never rely on a man’s direct provisioning. As such she’s very comfortable in publicly revealing the ins and outs of post-sexual revolution hypergamy without so much as an afterthought.

While she publicly affirms the build model of Beta provisioning (under the guise of equalism) and expects “those guys will be awaiting you” this doesn’t hold true for a majority of women. Women with affluence enough, or a physical attractiveness sufficient to virtually ensure their future provisioning are much more comfortable with the build a better Beta model than women who find themselves more lacking in this assurance.

The more necessitous a woman finds herself in the sexual marketplace, the more likely she is to deny the mechanics of her own hypergamy.

A woman less confident in consolidating on her future long-term security (and / or cooperative parental investment) has a much more personal investment in keeping the truths of hypergamy a secret from men. As such, these women will be more predisposed to misdirecting the men becoming more aware of this truth and relying more on the selling model of Beta provisioning.

Needless to say this split between women comfortable in open hypergamy and women reliant upon secretive hypergamy is a point of conflict between the have’s and have not women in the sexual marketplace. The more men become aware of women’s hypergamy and strategic sexual pluralism, through women’s open embrace of it or the manosphere, the more pressure the ‘have not’ women will feel to also embrace that openness.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

310 comments on “Controlling Interests

  1. @Rollo Tomassi & M3

    Actually, women do eat their own. Esther Vilar was essentially cast out of the world of women for her writing. I was only told this, I can find no internet evidence of it’s veracity.

  2. @ Johhnycomewhatever – I think you are misreading the signals. Many young women ride the older guy cock carousel in their partying days (one of the most fun aspects of this as that you both know it has no future at some level so it’s much less constrained and easy to deal with). Older men have higher SMV than young men due to social status, income and if they bother grooming themselves to be a bit stylish and are fit (important for an older man to project vitality which fitness does perfectly). Look at Rollo’s smv graphs, they layout how and when a man’s SMV peaks – in his mid to late 30s and early 40s. Is it any wonder that young women are attracted?

    In part, I see this as due to a mismatch of SMVs between betas in their “prime” and the average SMV of today’s 26 year old beta who spent six years completing a meager undergrad degree only to return home to his childhood home to play video games 40 hours a week. Tell me, if you were a 24 year old hottie, who would you be interested in? It’s not just about wealth either, it’s about stepping into an organized and intentional man’s “frame”. One’s home, work, hobbies, schedule, interests, discipline and accomplishments are part of one’s frame. A young women steps into your world versus the world this 26 yr old has to offer. Notice that the young guys who are getting the young hotties are not just good looking, they are also ambitious. But the current crop of men out there in their 20s are often lacking in this trait. And oh yeah, you young men if you think it’s harder now try being me trying to find a job in Buffalo NY in 1981 with 23% unemployment – the night job I got for min wage was also being applied for by a guy sitting next to me with three kids who’d worked in a tire factory for 20 years. I put in 60+ applications to get a 40 hr a week 11-7 overnight shift that paid 3.45/hour. I then moved to Texas cuz there was work there. So stop fucking whining and get a job or move to where there is work.

    It’s interesting that your comment seems to see this phenomena as wrong somehow. But in fact, it’s completely natural for a young women in her prime fertility/child bearing years to be attracted to an older man who is established – and this improves the man’s SMV. What I think you’ve actually done is internalize the shaming of this that older, “Strong, Independent Womrn™” aim at men for wanting that which is most desirable to them. You see, the Cheryl Sandberg’s of the world want the best betas all to themselves, but she knows that she can’t compete with a 25 year old hottie on any level. So she/they shame us and make us feel guilty for getting what we want, while she gives women permission to do whatever they want sexually.

    Throughout all of human civilization young women have been marrying older, established men very willingly. It’s only today, looking through feminine imperative soaked frame that it looks “wrong”. They make you feel like you are exploitative. I’ll tell you a story.

    I’m 39. My gf is 23, cute, thin and sexy. A size zero, with an ass that turns heads. I’m fit, making 6 figures, drive a luxury car, am active, busy and in the most demand I ever was since I was born (but didn’t really understand that and certainly didn’t capitalize on it). We go away for a weekend to the Mohonk Mountain house 2 hours from NYC, on a nature preserve with great hiking and climbing and a lake etc. Perfect outdoor oriented deluxe but rustic digs. Kind of old fashioned, but also very expensive. Here’s a link http://www.mohonk.com/

    While I’d been there before on many occasions on a day trip, I’d never stayed. It turns out that the majority of the guests staying over in the hotel for a weekend were married couples around my age or older. My gf was clearly the youngest women in the restaurant as we sat down for dinner. I think I was the only guy with a young hottie on his arm in the entire place (I prefer south beach in Miami for romantic weekends, the Boulevard is a great place to stay, fyi).

    What happened was nothing short of shocking. So many of the late 30s/early 40s women milling about would just glare at April (my gf). Several times you could see gaggles of these bitter broads pointing their fingers and talking to each other about how wrong it was. But interestingly, their glares and other non-verbal cues they gave off were aimed at April, not me. It was palpable, and April was uncomfortable at first. But she was spunky, and soon April kind of got off on it. She dressed sluttier than normal and hung on me everytime one of those bitter shrews would glare to rub it in.

    I used to just think they were cunts for doing this, but it’s far worse. They are enforcing an order to preserve their dualistic mating strategy – alpha fucks/beta bucks exactly as Rollo describes. You see I was at the peak of my SMV and doesn’t April know that the older broads (like Sandberg -who’s vagina probably looks like a piece of liver beat with a mallet at this point in her life) are entitled to my provision? Looking back I can see how their priorities had started to shift towards provisioning as they got older and I was prime provider meat. Talk about social proof – I think the weekend cost 900 bux just for two nights for the room alone – the environment qualifies me in and a woman with much higher SMV wanting me seemed to put these women into a frenzy. I’m not kidding, it was so over the top it was bizarre. While I was good looking and fit, I wasn’t tall or a celebrity etc, so part of my SMV is my confidence and success and social status at that point. I think I could have actually fucked some of them within 15 minutes if I tried, it was sick.

    I was the perfect beta provider with an Alpha boost that they could ever dream of! And here was this young hottie using her higher SMV to steal me from them. Even worse, we were flaunting it in a social setting that was dominated by these hideous bitches (i’m talking personality, many of these women were decent looking).

    But the point is how palpable it was. We tried to have fun with it, but it was uncomfortable. Some women would just stare at her for like 5 minutes, scowling. I gave a couple of them the finger, lol, but it was harder on her. Interestingly, every man who made eye contact with me gave me quick non-verbal signs of approval (if their wife/boat anchor/supervisor) wasn’t looking. The whole thing was very revealing, but I could never make real sense of until I encountered Rollo.

  3. @ Jacklabear

    Thanks for referencing my quote from my previous post, and I’d just like to offer some further clarification because I used the “wet spot” metaphor there; if there’s mis-communication there it’s on my end….

    So, to your point; it’s not really about getting there first, or the sloppy seconds, or the sloppy 368ths. As Steve H illustrated better than I could, it’s really about that feeling of variety and the resultant life experience that you gain from it. Despite having converted to a redder mindset, part of me still really likes the thrill of meeting and pursuing a new woman. It’s part of the whole package of being a man ion that we’re designed for the chase.

    So, is it better to be the 138th alpha, or the 139th beta? I’m going to go with the alpha here. I’d rather take my chances in pursuing a young,beautiful woman in her first years of college, enjoying her youth and vibrancy and leaving her better than I found her . (Campfire rule, you know.) As someone who doesn’t want a full time LTR but can’t fully become a monk, I think it’s better to go with what your attraction demands, rather your “duty” as so clearly illustrated by this particular post and in this website in general. In dating a younger girl, I feel less pressure to “man up and do the right thing”; it’s all really about enjoying the age disparity, and being able to take the lead due to your life experience…

    As for a beta getting exclusivity a lot longer that a beta, I absolutely agree. However, what manner of exclusivity you end up with is terribly important. Having been married (and divorced) myself, I know full well that feeling of familiairity and commitment, and at times I miss it. But from where I stand now, I’d much rather be alone and celibate, that getting the consolation prize…..I mean, the exclusivity of a Sheryl Sandberg or a Hanna Rosin.

    Hope that clarification helps.

    1. @ Mike – Great line. Can you imagine fucking Cheryl Sandberg? First she’s telling you what to do and not, then she’s checking her iPhone when she thinks you aren’t looking, then she’s so uptight and sure that you can’t get her off like her dildo does, than she say’s don’t put it in my mouth, then she’s like, “you came already?” Yeah, I’d rather run my balls over a cheese grater, thanks.

  4. @ Softek – You are a strange dude, and you are welcome. Hmm, if I didn’t mean to shock you into seeing how ridiculous you were being, what did you think I was trying to do? And oh yeah, if you had managed to stop me from “slapping” you, you’d still be whining about what a tough life you’ve had and how well you’ve managed under the circumstances and blah, fucking blah blah blah.

    Mission accomplished and a thank you without the backhanded bullshit would have been more appreciated actually. Believe it or not, my time is valuable and I just gave you a shitload of it during an actually very busy day to try and make a difference for you. I think you may have a lot of unresolved, dualistic, inconsistent stuff running around in your head.

    Have a nice day.

  5. @Softek – I agree with the comment Glenn made at 9:22am (back on page 1).

    The truth is, all the redpill knowledge in the world ain’t worth jack-shit without inner work AND outer work. And to be honest, I don’t know one single guy who has his inner work handled in a vacuum from also doing the outer work.

    All the wisdom you have compiled here and all the unusually insightful self-awareness you have demonstrated in your comments here – they won’t be worth a flying fuck to you in your own life until you get out of your comfort zone and do the outer work.

    I challenge you – this weekend, go out. Once. Report back. I think it’s pretty clear that there are a number of men here who are more than willing to help you process and move forward from any challenges you encounter – so long as you’re choosing to actually take steps forward. We can’t do that for you. Accept this challenge, do it for yourself.

  6. @ Mike – I clicked before I finishes. What I meant to close with is “What Cheryl doesn’t realize is that in order to come I had to fantasize about another woman and came so quickly because I just wanted it over with.”

  7. @Jack & Steve

    As has been said, Women are the gatekeepers of sex, and men are the gatekeepers of commitment (and attention). If you can get sex from a woman for very little attention and no commitment, you come out ahead. That doesn’t mean society is better for it, but you are definitely coming out ahead. Men who end up the 133rd beta are getting a raw deal because they are forking out a lifelong commitment and attention-on-demand to someone who has already had 132 alphas in them. The offering of the female is not of zero worth, but the price paid is far too high. In a perfect world, men would pay a lifelong commitment to be #1 and only, and they’d likely do it gladly in most cases. If you sleep around as a man, yes you’re perhaps #132 on her list, but if you’re smart you don’t give much up for it so your price is reasonable for the offering. If you’re very unlucky, you’ll end up a beta provider and be #133 on the list, with no legal power, an effective slave to an ex-slut. If you’re very lucky, you’ll find someone who only wants one man, and you’ll offer her your commitment in exchange for her virginity.

    Men didn’t create this scenario, but sleeping around *IS* the middle-ground.

  8. Vox Day discussed this
    http://crx.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/05/25/0093650214534972.abstract
    but the stark findings are almost self explanatory. Women flirted a lot less, but when they did flirt it was easy to tell. Men flirted a lot more, but women claimed it was hard to tell.

    IOW “I didn’t know he was interested” friendzoning is *probably* more due to the women pretending they didn’t notice his little expressions of interest and therefore his expressions of interest not becoming greater, rather than strictly due to the tentativeness of the men’s expressions of interest.

  9. @Rollo re: “only “damaged, immature women with serious issues”

    I’ve been calling this fallacy No True Mature Adult.

  10. your article is great, but ultimately over academic….

    a man has far more than just his genes to give to a child, thus the alpha – many mates strategy is relatively useless if his kids are brought up by some sucky beta cuckoo husband to be betas as well…. humans are not earthworms dependent only on genes but also on physical and social skills, a great deal of this comes from the father.

    many aggressive alpha men also want children to carry on their lineage…..

  11. The thing about MGTOW is that the movement (if you can call it such) seems to neglect the fact that the human mind needs and craves sexual companionship. Guys like Stardusk (pretty heady youtuber mgtow advocate) insist that sex is a complete waste of time and seems to think that by merely considering the matter as rationally as he does we can basically suppress our urges by understanding them as mere urges built into us by evolution to propagate the species and so on. Maybe I’m not doing the guy justice, but the problem here is that the human mind has a way of making you miserable if some fundamental social needs aren’t being met. It’s hard to square the dismissal of sex by MGTOWers with Steven Pinker’s description of the activity (in one of his books, perhaps “The Blank Slate”) as the greatest source of pleasure to our nervous system. So, if you’re not having sex, you’re missing out. You’re losing. Maybe it’s hard being upfront about that (In my case I find myself becoming increasingly reluctant to share being incel even through this pseudonym.).

  12. @Gurney Halleck

    MGTOW isn’t strictly incels, I’m not incel and I consider myself a MGTOW. It is more about a practical attitude toward sex and “love”. I love sex but I will never get married or be in a LTR; it is a well thought out decision I have made (and it’s not because i’m “badass”, I know I can play alpha in the short-term but keeping a woman entertained indefinitely is not something I am capable of – I am an introvert and would rather stay in most of the time).

    Also, don’t feel you have to be incel; get some escorts if you have to, with some sexual experience you will be able to make a more informed decision about the direction of your love life.

  13. I liked that you took this on Rollo. I really believe the idea that Betas will be waiting with open arms at the end of a chicks “wild times” is the greatest Feminist myth going.

  14. @boxsterpaul

    I’ve noticed men becoming the new “women” in that as women become more masculine men are being more objectified and pushed into a neo-caste role. Just observe advertising and the role of men in the media: agree and don’t rock the boat, incompetent, lack of leadership, men taking a larger role in household cleaning/cooking, etc. I see so many comparisons to women in the 50’s: “stop talking dear, no one wants your opinion”, the idea of women not capable of leading, women who are perceived useless outside the home.

    In the media and especially in film, women lead men who are incapable of leading themselves. Examples Movies | a million ways to die in the west shows a typical bumbling idiot who needs a women to show him how to be a “man”. TV | I can’t recall the shows name or episode but I saw a commercial with a female cop as a hostage angrily demanding her male partner to take the shot and “send it!”, in other words shot her/criminal. He lacked the courage.

    I think such examples of women always in the best of positions and roles will lead to increased levels of narcissism and entitlement and delusion. As always nature is balanced so something will give to counteract this whether this be men stepping up and setting boundaries, opting out of long-term relationships, reducing levels of commitment or an unforeseen consequence yet to show itself.

    I am keeping an eye on female to male violence as a serious catalyst for action. Though under reported some men know that domestic violence is roughly the same for men & women +/- 10% (CDC study: http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/).

    As women in the media assert their power more and more through hostility and violence and this behavior gets a pass, I wonder how long or if this will carry over to more blatant displays of aggression toward men.

    Next time you see a movie notice how any strong female character asserts herself.

  15. @scratch2013

    But what if the mgtow movement is significantly composed of incels/unattractive men who are too ashamed to be upfront about their status (lest they prove the feminist-esque taunt “you’re just bitter you don’t get laid” to be true)? This is always the elephant in the room in mgtow discussion and, to be honest, there was some refreshing honesty from the “PUAhate” people who developed the Looks, Money, and Status theory (basically men who don’t have those things lose out in the sexual marketplace.) Are MGTOWs just low LMS guys who can’t admit their status? What would be the appeal of MGTOW to a man who can at least easily find women of his equivalent sex rank?

  16. @ Glenn

    I still feel like I have to prove myself. The way you wrote your comment pushed a lot of my buttons because a lot of what you said triggered me.

    You didn’t shock me into seeing how ridiculous my ONE-itis is. You triggered me, and then by realizing that you triggered me, now I can see that I need to break up the thought pattern of trying to prove myself, and that was a shock.

    When I read what you wrote I got really pissed off and defensive. Your intention didn’t matter because I reacted to what you wrote very negatively because of my own inner resources (memories, beliefs, and the emotions that make them feel real).

    Then I just started clinging more and more to my problems — it made me more problem oriented than solution oriented. I felt attacked and then I reacted by trying to defend myself. So everything becomes about attaching to my problems, and proving my problems, like making a court case. A big briefcase full of photos and documents and papers, and then my life purpose becomes proving to you why I’m so miserable.

    It’s ironic that your intent to slap me out of it backfired. You want me to stop feeling a need to prove myself, but the way I reacted to what you wrote made me feel as intensely as ever that I need to prove myself. You want me to let go of the ONE-itis, but the way I reacted to what you wrote made me feel even worse of letting go of that fantasy, because I feel so threatened and on edge that now I need a ‘safe space’ to go as intensely as ever, and I can’t find that safe space within myself.

    Complaining doesn’t help, and I realize that if I complain I’ll get a negative reaction. My problem is that I’ve been having a lot of internal tension and fear. I know all the stuff on this blog, I’ve read it, I’ve contemplated it. But knowing it hasn’t made the fear go away.

    It isn’t an excuse. It’s hard for me to have to accept the idea of letting go of sympathy/empathy, and that’s what I’m doing when I let go of the complaining. I have all this fear inside of me, I feel paralyzed, and the worst part is this:

    If I’m not going to do anything to change my fear, the sympathy won’t help. And people don’t want to hear about the fear if there’s nothing they can do about it to help. So all I feel like I can do is keep it bottled up inside, and I guess it boils over into writing comments like that on this blog, because I have nowhere else to go.

    I really think I would be much more willing to express a fear to a friend if I had one that could help me with approaching women *IN PERSON*. Like someone I could go to a bar with, or someone who even knew some girls they could introduce me to.

    It isn’t an excuse, I know. I’m just in a lot of pain, and I KNOW that nothing is going to change until I do the outer work. The inner work can only go so far.

    And I know I’m using the inner work as an escape from doing the outer work. Because I’m afraid of it.

    I just felt bad because I feel like I’m being beaten over the head for being afraid. I know what I’m doing and I feel powerless to change it, and I just feel like I’m being beaten and being told “stop being powerless you fucking pussy.” And it just makes me feel more powerless, because my focus is going to the belief that I’m a coward and the pain of being called one.

    I was being tongue-in-cheek with the aggression in my last post. The main point I was trying to make was that I need to focus more on building myself up and having self respect instead of putting myself down.

    I just felt like you were putting me down and it stirred up all the inner resources I have (memories, emotions) that affirm my negative self-image. And that’s why I went on that rant — an attempt to defend myself, make a case for myself, prove myself.

    Steve H is right. I feel bad about the suggestion because I know more likely than not I’m not going to do it. I feel bad enough about myself and my fears and I just feel worse when I feel like I’m being put down for it. But it doesn’t mean I’m not trying. I’m really trying to let go of these thoughts and push forward. I just don’t want to be demonized for being afraid, because that piles shame on top of the fear and it just makes it harder to deal with.

    Hopefully what I’m saying makes sense. I don’t want any animosity here, we all have enough problems.

    My goal for the weekend is to not complain about the fear, but to feel it and try to work through it. If I go to a bar (which is scary in itself to me), and think about talking to a girl, and start having a panic attack and have to leave — at least I went to the bar, and at least I tried. And the next time I can push myself farther.

    That’s what I’m dealing with, and I shouldn’t beat myself up for that. I’m not a bad person for being scared. At least I’ll be trying. I know I need to start doing the outer work even though it’s terrifying.

    I will say that inner work can involve addressing panic attacks and things like that, though. One of the books I’m reading is called “Monsters and Magical Sticks: There’s No Such Thing as Hypnosis?” I’ve also been using Faster EFT.

    So to really push myself I could drive to a bar alone and sit in my car. If I start having a panic attack, I can tap it out. Then maybe sit on a bench outside of it, and if I start feeling really anxious, tap it out. Then go in and see how anxious I am, and mentally tap. Then pick out a girl I like and approach her. The idea of doing that feels impossible, which is a red flag.

    Meetup groups? What else? There has to be a lot. I’m afraid of it so I don’t think about it. But I have to start thinking of what I could do to get in situations where I could meet girls and then go and do it. That’s what I’m really resistant to and am running away from.

    But I need to focus on imagining and physically pursuing the solutions, not beating myself up and putting myself down. I know I’m afraid but the more I tell myself that and the more inferior I feel, the better I get at feeling afraid and inferior. I’m sensitive to harsh advice because I don’t hear the advice, I just feel the shame/guilt/self hatred/need to defend myself and my problems that I’m attaching to, and that completely distracts me from pursuing any actual solutions to my problems.

    Hopefully that clears some stuff up. I don’t like going to bed anxious or angry.

  17. To Softek;

    I hope you’ll find, as I have, that as you keep swallowing Red Pills and seeing the reality, your healing will in fact be taking place. Eventually, you’ll see that all these women you’ve been pedestalising all this time, are no more worthy of pedestalising than yourself, or anybody else. As much as you will continue to love women for being women (physically), you’ll see them for what they are, warts and all, and the pedestalising will melt away, and you’ll see their true value; which, as the manosphere states, cannot be known until AFTER they have been sexual with you. All the best with it. You’ll be fine.

  18. Softek – you will be fine. Just be your own advocate. Nobody else can do this for you. I’ll give one more point of advice on this – if by some chance you get into a hairy situation, just default to kindness and deference. If anything happens where anybody questions you or accosts you for some reason (highly unlikely, by the way) – just say ‘hey man, sorry about that. didn’t mean to intrude. my bad’. that’s it.

    There’s no magic bullet here. You can go out if you choose to, and you’ll survive just fine. I guarantee it. I’m also quite confident that, with time, you’ll begin to understand what a wealth of knowledge you have to offer others as a result of fighting through your own adversities. You have a lot to offer other people, which is reason enough to kick yourself in the ass and get after it – by going out just once, to one bar, this weekend. But I still say – do it primarily for yourself. Just do it.

  19. Jesus christ, Softek.
    You still havent McFucking killed your(beta)self.
    Even bluepillers can understand and see that. You’ve stated it yourself.
    Time to do it.

    Back on track here. Ive been lurking here for the last year and it has completely shed light on my own personal understanding of the whole playing field, so to speak.

    I originally started this descent 7 years ago literally from Googling how to kill my AFC oneitis. I mentally McFucking killed myself.
    Needless to say, rebuilding myself took some time.
    I was missing one vital piece of understanding to cement it and drive it home.

    All these forums and sites really went into the real question of it (Game, PUA, FI,etc) all. Which was why all of this is.

    Why. With none of the bullshit politics or the ilk.
    The cold. hard and bitter Why.

    For this you have my gratitude, Rollo.

  20. Opps, massive typo.
    All these forums and sites NEVER went into the real question of it (Game, PUA, FI,etc) all. Which was why all of this is.

  21. “While she publicly affirms the build model of Beta provisioning (under the guise of equalism) and expects “those guys will be awaiting you” this doesn’t hold true for a majority of women.”

    I’m not so sure I can agree with this. I refer to the Dalrock post on 2013 “never marrieds” data. It was an adjunct to the “Never Marrieds Piling Up” post from 2012.

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/2013-never-married-data/

    While you may see the “growth” in each “never married” category increasing, some with quite a lot of increase for the category, (i.e. 25-29 age groups increasing from 35.1% in 1999 to 48.2% in 2013, and the 30-34 from 17.5% to 25.5% which looks very much like a 50% increase across those two age groups), I commented back then “Not So Fast” to the men jumping up and down on the sofa with glee.

    When you look at the 35-39, it states that it went from 11.0 to 15.6. You can look at that two ways: Gleefully, you can say “Aha, 50% growth”. But you could also say out of all women of that age group, that was only a 4% growth in “never married” by the time post-wall clock struck midnight.

    And that number for 40-44 age group for 2013 was around 11%. That means that 89% of women by age 44 have had a ring put on it.

    That’s Dal-Data, manofact for the manosphere. Now as Dal says, you cannot necessarily compare apple to oranges and assume that trends from one 5 year cohort of women will necessarily hold true for a younger cohort when they get to that age. And the obesity and overweight numbers for younger cohorts are increasing year upon year. In 1975, the distribution among ages showed an increasing graph, by age, from 18-24 age groups at about 5% of the general population up to the 45-54 age group at 20%. Today the current population has obesity at over 40% and 20% of people in their 20s are already obese and the over 45 groups probably pushing high 40s. You kind of have to assume that more of today’s 20 somethings will be obese 20 years from now when they are in their 40s. So you could assume that a lot of the growth in the “never married” numbers in women their 20s and early 30s are due to increased numbers of obese women. So that “never married” number for women aged 35-44 will increase in the future.

    But, at least for now, the Dal-Data says someone is marrying these women, that by the time they reach 45, only 11% of them have never been married. They might be divorced and there are fewer men signing to for seconds. But at some point, someone wifed them up.

    Fuck, I was at the beach on Tuesday. The beach is a strange place during the week. It’s a mixed bag. At around 12-1 the high school aged kids and some college kids come out. But before then, it is a lot of women with kids and a few moms and dads with kids. And this one couple showed up on what looked like a “date”. The woman was probably over the obese BMI line. That number is about 188 pounds for a woman around 5’6″ and this girl was a double cheeseburger away from 210. The “extremely obese” threshold for that height is around 244. This girl was in sort of a summer dress and she definitely had some hams for upper arms and had a big ass, not quite the grocery store aisle blockers you can see these days, but still a big assed ass. I am not sure how old she was, maybe late 20s, early 30s.

    And she had this beta guy with her, a balding, schlubby, weak jawed dude and he was quite happy to be there with her. Fuck, he was talking her up, running his omega game, big smile on his face like he was out with Miss Texas instead of Little Lotta.

    I mentioned in a previous comment, this study using the Tullock Competition Success function that predicted that the transition from promiscuity to monogamy probably begin with lower status males offering provisioning in exchange for monogamy. The function predicted that the majority of “mating” would go the small percentage of highest ranking males in a group. And the lower level males were forced to offer provisioning as means to sexual access.

    If anything that model is definitely in force today, “Alpha fucks and Beta sloppy seconds”. The only issue that might preclude that is that women chub themselves up so badly that a sock and laptop is a better deal to even the most wretched omega than the opportunity of parading Shamu down the beach. And what I saw Tuesday was that if girlfriend can just stay a little south of a BMI of 35, there’s a taker out there somewhere.

    But even if that “Never Married” category grows because we alerted all the men of the dangers of hypergamy, all that will happen is a rewriting of the “Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks” contract to institutionalize it in favor in women in a different form. You can “go your own way” but you will still be indirectly cuckolded.

    An example of this is going on in my town. There is this program called “Summer Rec”. The kids go at 8:30 am and can stay until 4:30. They are fed breakfast and lunch. They do like an hour of arts and crafts, then they play at something, whether inside in a gym or outside. Then they go in the fucking pool. All this occurs in the school facility. And it employs some people from the school district and then some high school kids as something like counselors.

    And the cost to the parents is $5.00. Not for the day, not for the week, or the month. But 5 fucking dollars for the whole summer. The Feds kicked in some of the money because enough of the population is below some income threshold. And I am sure those people in that level are typically single moms. Then the rest of the money comes from local government.

    And the gist of this is that it is Free Day Care. OK, not exactly free. It costs a whole 5 dollars. And this augments the “free day care” that the school year offers women.

    And you see can why all these pols are pushing for this extension of Pre-K with all these numbers about kids that go to pre-K have less chance of repeating grades and how much better they do in first grade then other kids that go to Pre-K. In essence, it is a direct benefit to women and the justifications are window dressing. It moves the burden of child care from the household to the general public. There are a 1000 things that pols could do for children, like get men good jobs, but it so happens the ones that get done are the ones with direct benefits to women. It allows her to not need to be tied to a beta for provisioning. And it shifts society away from a paternity care model to a community care model. It extracts resources from wage earners, typically men, and uses them to provide care for children. It frees up the women and money women might have paid for such care and gives them time to do whatever it is that women do.

    And whatever that is, you can be sure it excludes your beta ass.

    So we can pat ourselves on the back at being these sentinels that are alerting the world to reality of hypergamic schedules. But in end, women will just admit it and say “Well, we should have access to alpha cock and also to beta bucks because we’re women with magic vaginas that create life.” They may not do it directly but it will come in the way of Health Care Reform, “education reform”, “income inequality reform”, all ways of shifting beta bucks away from male wallets and into purses.

    Back when the majority of women were married then they saw things like these as raids on the income of their husbands and thus their own booty prize from roping in a sucker. But studies show that single women are more liberal and vote with what is called Gratuitous Generosity. They are more than happy to give away your money to other women for more Summer Rec programs or whatever that spends beta bucks.

  22. @jacklabear and jf12,

    Not only are testosterone and its analogs controlled substances, but those pills women have been gobbling for 50 years now (and their metabolites) have made their way into our water and food supplies

    …add to this the ubiquity, bio-accumulation, and indeed bio-magnification of industrial xenoestrogens and other endocrine disruptors (like phthalates, synthetic musks, parabens, BPA, etc)…(AFAIK there are no widely used xenoandrogens);

    …tack on nature’s own estrogenic compounds, which are everywhere in food (while phytoandrogens are exceedingly rare and socially stigmatized), modern livestock being fed the wrong food leading to the wrong fatty acid profile in meat and milk, oh and of course the animals themselves are given hormones, plus the crops both we and they eat are engineered to withstand heavy pesticide loads (nevermind the big GMO question mark);

    …then look at the modern lifestyle, with less sun exposure, prolonged sitting, circadian clocks thrown off by screens… and of course, pervasive, unrelenting stress and the alcohol and prescription medication use it engenders, all of which negatively impact natural testosterone;

    …then study how testosterone is regulated by social patterns, and how primates who self-perceive to be lower on the dominance hierarchy have suppressed testosterone… think about the messages that are constantly being sent to us, reinforced daily, drummed repeatedly throughout our lives, from school through work, in the media and from our governments, more preposterous and agency-robbing by the year;

    …we can even zoom out and look at the fact that we lost maybe 100 million healthy young men to war in the 20th century, which was effectively a testosterone cull on the everyman…

    Yeah, the deck is a bit stacked on planet earth when it comes to that defining molecule. Bring it up most anyplace, you’re as likely to be mocked as dismissed. Way I see it, every man should make it a priority to understand this and wage his own secret war to stay himself.

    Listen to this podcast, especially act 2 where a feminist dyke who decides to become a man describes going on T:

    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/220/testosterone

  23. @ D-Man

    Nutrition and lifestyle are of pivotal importance. And you’re absolutely right about all the estrogenic compounds virtually everywhere — our food, air, and water. Ray Peat (main field of research is hormones) has written extensively about the harmful effects of elevated estrogen and has a ton of free, excellent articles on his site for anyone who’s interested.

    He’s also written a lot about serotonin’s harmful effects. I’m reminded of being put on Lexapro, Zyprexa and Buspar from when I was around 12 years old to 18 or so. I’m convinced that these drugs were seriously harming me. I never even heard of self mutilation when I started doing it, which was after I started Lexapro. It wasn’t a “thing” back when I was that age like it is now, and I’d never heard of it. Just did it.

    Polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) are one of the primary culprits in exacerbating the harmful effects of estrogen. Canola oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, fish oil (fish oil is controversial, and admittedly our scientific understanding of lipids in relation to cellular function and membrane integrity is EXTREMELY ambiguous — look into Gilbert Ling, Gerald Pollack, and Ray Peat for alternative views of cell structure and function).

    Throw in all the hormones, antibiotics, and prescription drugs as you mentioned, and it’s a cocktail for disaster.

    I get lights from lowbluelights.com: amber lights that have no light in the blue spectrum. I use one of the nightlights in my bathroom and use the flashlights if I need to get out of bed for any reason. I also use f.lux on my computer and I also have a pair of Uvex Skyper Safety glasses, which are amber tinted and block a large amount of light from the blue spectrum.

    I recently got on a hair mineral analysis program. The levels of minerals in modern meat and produce is absolutely appalling. Due to shelf ripening, pesticides and crops growing in mineral deficient soil…we’re in a lot of trouble.

    Even if you eat whole foods, those whole foods have far less minerals than they had even 20 years ago. It’s absolutely staggering. All this talk about “empty calories” — well guess what? Less nutrient density = more empty. A sweet potato or an apple today is not the same as a sweet potato or an apple from the 40’s or 50’s.

    Feedlot animals are raised on high PUFA diets and pumped full of antibiotics and are induced into having stress responses to encourage the retaining of water — so the final product in the package weighs more and they get a bigger profit.

    I avoid all this stuff as much as I can within my budget, have found that the hair mineral analysis program (at least with the naturopath I’m going to) is working out excellently, and I always maintain physical activity and keep some basic supplements in rotation. Gelatin and taurine show potential anti-estrogenic effects, as does vitamin E. I also use natural personal care products to avoid exposing myself to all this garbage on a regular basis. For example, I use magnesium oil (magnesium chloride brine) as a mineral spray deodorant, and also on my toothbrush instead of toothpaste. Been using it for at least 4 or 5 years and haven’t had a cavity since.

    I also remember how my eyesight changed when my wisdom teeth were removed. My eyes are closer together because after removing the 4 teeth, my face partially collapsed — no teeth to support, the facial structure changed.

    I’ve mentioned orthotropics here before. Dominant male features include a prominent jawline. Guess what you get when you practice proper oral posture from an early age? Your teeth form around your tongue in a “U” shape and you grow up with a beautiful, attractive face.

    Don’t believe me, look up John Mew’s work. Orthotropics. Butt ugly kids turned beautiful by practicing proper oral posture.

    Between a circumcision where my entire frenulum was completely removed, along with all of my inner and outer foreskin, and my growing up with braces and having my wisdom teeth removed, a couple pivotal aspects of experiencing and displaying manhood were taken away from me.

    And that is fucking bullshit. This is still happening every day and no one bats an eye. Proper facial structure due to proper oral posture is more attractive, and it’s also healthier because of how the airways develop. You will be pissed off when you realize that if you were taught proper oral posture from an early age and your face developed differently your SMV could probably be, at the very least, 2-3 points higher, if not more.

    George Caitlin wrote about this in the frickin’ 1800’s in his observations of native American tribal people and their beautiful faces. The mothers would shut their baby’s mouths if they dropped open while they slept. The placement of the tongue, and how you swallow (how the tongue exerts pressure on the outside teeth) dictates how the teeth develop.

    Facial structure is pivotal to attraction. A well developed maxilla is the kingpin. The rest of the face follows. Modern orthodontics restrains the teeth and keeps the maxilla back, or even pulls it back in order to correct an overbite, instead of bringing the lower jaw forward.

    The endocrine system also comes into play with all of this. My eyes were farther apart, my jaw was more prominent, my chin was broader. I shit you not. I have pictures from when I was 18-19 and then at 20 or 21 my face had completely changed. It might not seem like much but it’s clear as day in side-by-side pictures.

    And I’ve heard of guys partially correcting this problem by using some devices like the Homeobloc, that noticed increased attention from women after their face changed, as well as an easier time developing that “V” physique and having a more broad, muscular appearance.

    I’ve known about this for years and it’s pissed me off to no end. It’s very hard to come to terms with that. My one hope is people wake the fuck up and start learning how to truly care for our bodies.

    All of these ugly people in the world would be a lot more attractive with well developed faces. Obviously things are still going to vary a lot. But every reasonably healthy, normal person should be taught proper oral posture from a young age.

    Check out “Dr. Buteyko Meets Dr. Mew.” They get into all that.

    There is so much that’s fucked up with modern society and medical/dental/psychiatric practices, and it is literally slowly killing us. I only recently started addressing mercury toxicity from my 8 huge mercury amalgam fillings that I’ve had since I was a kid. Talk about disrupting the endocrine system. Heavy metals bind to sites meant for ‘healthy’ minerals like zinc, selenium, iron, calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium, and interfere with proper enzyme function and hormone production.

    Anyone see that program about alligators in that lake near some plant that had a ton of fumes coming off from plastics? Their penises were 1/3 of the size that they were in previous generations, it was getting worse, and the male birth rate was plummeting.

    The male birth rate also plummeted in the human children in that area.

    Game is good, and all this information helps, but the battle goes way beyond intergender dynamics. The very soul of masculinity is literally being poisoned from the well — and guess what? Women are suffering for it too. Estrogen in excess is extremely harmful to both genders, and for example, there’s a lot of evidence that birth control is extremely dangerous for women as far as long-term use goes in relation to chronic health problems.

    And all the chemicals and shit in all the makeup and perfume and deodorants. The list goes on and on and on.

    Fear mongering is not good. I just take in this information and do my best to avoid all that stuff, but if I go out to a restaurant or whatever I get what everyone else gets and don’t freak out about it. You have to strike a balance.

    I’ve seen the other side with mental hospitals. I’ve been there. And I can say firsthand that despite all the serious issues I’ve had I only really started improving once I dropped all the medications and started focusing on diet, carefully selected and researched supplements (there are tons of con artists out there and most supplements IMO are worthless), and physical activity, along with other lifestyle changes like avoiding blue light at night, getting a Nature’s Platform for the toilet (to emulate a squat toilet), and making sure I get plenty of sun exposure (without ever burning, of course. Interestingly I found that avoiding PUFAs and taking vitamin E sharply reduced my tendency to burn and I could stay out in the sun longer with no issues).

    This is absolutely a multi-faceted issue, and the physical and mental health of people in modern society is literally a crisis. Something needs to be done about it, because it’s only getting worse. Fortunately I do think more people are waking up than ever before to all this stuff and are craving changes, craving physical and mental health, and are getting ready to make those changes — and a lot are making them already.

  24. @ Softek – You sound like a woman. I did attack you, I did want to make you angry, I did want to activate some self awareness and shame for what a pussy you were being. You are the prototype blue piller and don’t realize it. And that’s the last time I ever waste a second trying to deal with your bullshit bud – enjoy your misery. Next time you are wallowing in your self-pity, just realize that it’s all self-imposed. At this point, knowing what you know, there is no need to be suffering. You are choosing it, you are embracing it and then wrapping a whole bunch of psychological hooey around it that doesn’t serve you a bit. Weirdest of all? Then you get self-righteous about it. Get this – your entire resonse is a caricature of blue pill betaism to a Tee. And I think you even know that – so really, what are you going on about?

    “Triggering” – what is this, a fucking gender studies class? Guys like you could easily push me to @NewYorker’s POV. Glad for betas like you – means more for me.

  25. Sadly a promising thread is being taken down MGTOW and other weird ratholes. I’m starting to believe that commenting on the web for many people is an end in itself, that it likely meets some inchoate but unmet need for exhibitionism such that it compels them to comment for the sake of it. Not for the actual edification of others in a conversation, but just to puff oneself up or establish cred.

    A word on MGTOW and Stardusk. Stardusk is not a scientist, yet he preaches (and that’s what he does) a pseudo-scientific melange of weak or debunked scientific ideas along with childlike political and economic ideas – but he does so with a great voice and eloquently, so it gets taken seriously. If you want to see a critique of his “science” see this link http://gynocentrism.com/2013/12/20/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow-definition/ One would think that when Stardusk talks about “auto-induced asexuality” and doesn’t mention issues like the human need for “attachment” and the consequences of social isolation, or even the well known health benefits men achieve by having regular orgasms (4 times a week is the minimum requirement for male health)or a thousand other details like that, that people would laugh him off.

    I know, he’s a “MGTOW GOD”, lol – I don’t have any Gods. That’s why I don’t give a shit what Dalrock says as well – Christians are delusional. Consider what Stardusk doesn’t deal with about sex from just one POV and one may start to get a glimpse as to how absurd a response asexuality is to the challenges men face with today’s intersexual dynamics. Human sexuality is very different from much of the sexuality found in the animal kingdom in that sex between humans has a social purpose, like say bonobos. 99% or more of the sex humans have is not for the express purpose of reproduction. Human females conceal their fertility whereas in many other species females advertise when they are in heat and that is when coupling happens.

    Our sexual identities and orientations are such a fundamental aspect of who we are as humans. I see my path towards happiness being about embracing my masculinity, about seeing my masculinity as positive and enjoying it. MGTOW denies men a huge chunk of their masculinity and accordingly is destructive to men. MGTOW often gets men stuck in anger and isolation as well. It’s not a solution, it’s a reaction, and for many, it’s the beta’s refuge where they can fluff their outrage over being ignored, despite being “nice guys”.

  26. @D-man, re: american life link. Interesting episode. The stroy with the transman Griffin is *exactly* like *every* female-to-male trans: with the male levels of testosterone they feel so much better and more alive and libidinous … and nobody cares. They get less help, less cooperation, life is harder, more is expected from them at work, nobody thinks they’re good looking; the way everyone in their life treats them as a man is a lot suckier than how they were treated as a woman. Uniformly, *every* transman’s experience.

  27. Glenn, I never considered Stardusk as a scientist, more like a philisopher, but you outline some of the same issues I’ve had with him. He has interesting ideas that are somewhat on same wavelength as Rollo’s but there’s also a delusion about human nature there, that men can just completely neglect women and live happily without them. This is the problem with mgtow in general.

  28. D-Man: Griffin is 5’4″, so has been brought to realize that being “an aggressive bulldyke” is a serious Fail if the other guy doesn’t know you’re a woman. Ooops.
    But you’re on T, dearie, and a radical feminoid, so ought to be kicking Weak Reactionary Male Ass with ease … who knew?

    Maybe there’s a wee bit more to this “Man” thing than meets the eye?
    The old Saxons defined the prime quality of manhood surprisingly not as hardihood in the shieldwall or frozen to an oar, but as ‘possessing judgement’, as they knew women would be forever in hock to their Feewingzes in matters trivial and critical alike.

    And the bit where xir admits that fem colleagues in the papershuffling job go ” you’re not a ‘post-feminist’, you’re a Misogynist” is simply hilarious.
    Guys don’t do that, etc.

  29. “But in end, women will just admit it and say “Well, we should have access to alpha cock and also to beta bucks because we’re women with magic vaginas that create life.” They may not do it directly but it will come in the way of Health Care Reform, “education reform”, “income inequality reform”, all ways of shifting beta bucks away from male wallets and into purses. ”

    Fucking bingo, Mark.

    And this is why women absolutely seethe with incalculable rage when they encounter any financially successful non-Apex-Alpha who is childfree by choice and doesn’t want children. The whole ‘we create life’ thing has zero symbiotic overlap with his longitudinal meta-imperative.

  30. What’s interesting is that even though Sandberg is admitting to the AFBB pluralistic mating strategy, she is still pushing it in decidedly blue-pill language – she’s telling the betas who are spending their early to mid 20s in a sexual desert that they are somehow winning in the end by getting to wife up women who spent their prime years getting penetrated in every hole by alpha males.

    Even so, it’s kinda funny to hear a feminist icon like Sandberg, of all people, confirm the existence of the AFBB strategy and women’s preference for bad boys after the feminist media had just spent the last three weeks talking about how that was all some nonsensical misogynistic Internet meme not based in reality.

  31. @Softek, appreciate the suggestions, some very interesting stuff I’ve never heard of.

    Despite the fact that conditions are not good for proper development, and nobody appears to give a shit, it just reinforces to me the resolve that we’re each on our own, and it’s up to us to do what we want with what potential we have.

    It can be depressing to think about how far we all are from ideal, from a strictly physiological, biochemical standpoint, and how we appear to be collectively fucking so much up. Becoming aware of the many obstacles impeding our alignment can definitely be a pissoff, but I figure hey, nobody owes me anything. The beauty of that thought, managing to self-divest of the entitlement mentality? Hey lookkee, I don’t owe anyone a damn thing either, and that is a glorious freedom.

    Insofar as we tend to beat ourselves up, it can be good to remember that we didn’t set the entire stage. Central to this is the trick of getting out from under the imposed notion that there’s something wrong with us.

    This joint is simply a fucking puzzlehouse, no joke. As I said to a buddy, if you look around, and you get the feeling that something’s off, and you’re not quite sure what it is, and you start to wondering if it might be you… it ain’t.

  32. @ Glenn

    My dad tried to “kill the beta” in me when I was a kid. Sometimes literally. The details aren’t necessary. The point is it didn’t work.

    The first thing you’re probably thinking is “boo fucking hoo, get over it.”

    The end goal really is to get over it. I don’t disagree with that. I just believe that using NLP techniques to actually collapse the emotional anchors to the core problem is the most effective way to get over it. Then it’s really gone. It sounds like what you’re suggesting is to stuff the problems into a bag and just learn to live with it and tough it out. Carry it around with you. Just turn a blind eye to the stuff inside you that you don’t like, and if it comes up, beat it down with force until it’s dead.

    I don’t really see any particular advantage or glory in struggling so much when it isn’t necessary. It’s a lot of wasted effort. Your trying to provoke anger and shame is evidence that your focus is on — guess what — anger and shame.

    And you did successfully provoke it. And guess what I felt? Anger and shame. So then I had two more problems on top of the big problem I was already having. Does it make logical sense that that would help? No. I don’t think that’s a complicated idea. I don’t see how adding more problems to a problem can help make a problem go away. If you try to explain that one to me then I’m going to throw that psychobabble accusation right back at you, because that just doesn’t make any sense.

    If I just let go of whatever it is you’re trying to make me feel anger and shame about (“being a pussy”, and however I internally represent that with thoughts/feelings/beliefs), all of a sudden, the anger and shame aren’t necessary. There’s nothing to resist against. Don’t need to recruit anger and shame to joint the fight because the war’s over — in fact, it never existed in the first place.

    Then I could think, “Okay, cool.” And how much easier would it be to approach a girl and do something I’ve never done before when I’m not carrying around all that baggage?

    I understand the point you’re making. I’m just arguing that the way you’re approaching it is completely inefficient and roundabout at best, and counterproductive at worst, and that there are far faster and better techniques to achieve the same end goal.

    I’m feeling better after clearing the stuff up that got stirred up from my interaction with you. Yes, my triggers. You can think I’m stupid and a blue pill pussy or whatever it is you want — but that’s your stuff.

    I’m choosing of my own free will to see this emotional upheaval as a gift for me to heal and to get one step closer to living a life I want to live. Good for me. Calling me a pussy made me feel bad, then I realized that I don’t want to own that bad feeling, and…I let it go.

    I’ll thank you again even though I know you’re thoroughly pissed off and think I’m a complete asshole. That’s a gift too — because I can step back and know that that’s your perception of me, that you own those feelings, and I don’t have to take them on for myself. If someone gives you a gift and you don’t accept it, who does the gift belong to? Glenn’s not a bad person, but if I think he is and hate him in my mind, who am I tormenting? Me. It isn’t Glenn. He’s too big to fit in my head.

    I want to have fun with girls and also get my own life together. I think one of my friends said they might be having a party soon. Might. Not sure how many girls are going to be there but that would be a good opportunity to get out of my shell and comfort zone. I almost never go to any parties because they don’t pop up that often so I should force myself to make the most of it. Whatever I do, just try to push beyond my comfort zone even a tiny bit — as much as I can manage — so I can go home feeling proud of myself and encouraged that I’m making progress, and that I’m really on the way to enjoying my life.

  33. “MGTOW is destructive to men.”
    It is so true!

    In my teens I was rather good with girls, mainly because I didn’t give a flying fuck about them. But then something changed. I started to care more for their interests, the pre-whipping kicked in and my successes vanished. In fact I got shot down so many times that I quit hitting on girls altogether. Of course I still got the attention of some mediocre ones but turned them down, I wasn’t desperate. Fast forward to today.
    I’m 28 and just recently stumbled across the sphere through PUA stuff on the net (Roosh) and tried to swallow the pill. I am so angry at myself because I just couldn’t see the forest for the trees. Seeing the truth now everyday still doesn’t make it easier to believe but one thing I’ve come to realize: being alone and without being loved is not a state that can be maintained forever. I notice myself getting more desperate every month.
    A friend of mine woke up a whole while before me and even though he keeps spinning plates he fell hard for this girl who is so high maintenance it’s literally draining him. But he just can’t get out.
    So what’s it gonna be? IMO every choice you make is indeed poison!

  34. @Tam and jf12,

    Amazing how s/he described being overwhelmed by sexual thoughts, and how s/he looked at women in a vastly different way. This should be required listening for feminists who complain about the “male gaze” (when they’re not transparently complaining about the lack of it).

    Lots of “you don’t understand what it’s like to have my hormones” coming from women, zero acknowledgement in reverse.

    The kicker though was her/his newfound interest in science and rational thought!

  35. One last comment in response to Retrenched’s point. Yes, it’s really interesting how last month’s discussion of the AF-BB strategy as some chimera, right up there with the Flying Dutchman and UFOs, has now been verbalized in the media by Sandberg as sage, reasoned advice culled from a lifetime of female experience. And there’s not a peep from any media outlet going, “Uhh…wait a second…”

    I think the real takeaway is that it’s not so much what she said (hear me out), as where it was delivered from. Sheryl Sandberg is regarded as one of the top female Alphas with clearly established social proof (COO of Facebook swings a lot of weight, male or female) that places her firmly in the ranks of Marissa Meyer, Maureen Dowd, Hanna Rosin etc., as a highly visible female thought leader. She has the class privilege to make that statement, in the full knowledge that she’ll never have to settle in the same way that a single mom with daycare issues struggling on a single paycheck will have to. Sandberg has OPTIONS – stay unmarried, childfree, dating rent boys and actors, married to an apex Alpha, or married to moneyed Beta – that she can fully exercise with no fear of societal reprisal. Telling less successful women they’ll have the same options as she exercises, and men will line up to make their home/life dreams come true, is incredibly presumptuous. Especially since it seems that more and more men are realizing the costs of that deal, and are actively voting with their feet and going the other way….

    One nagging thought from my commute home today is this; Women are evolving a lot faster than us, and us men need to catch up. If you take the 15% Alpha / 85% Beta percentages as an extremely rough and subjective estimate, it becomes clear that most of us are still playing by that old intersexual rule-book and it’s not helping one damn bit.

    Evolve, guys. We’re a bunch of dinosaurs looking at the first snowflakes of the Ice Age coming down, and those of us with sense are going to invest in fur coats. If you don’t want to end up like the mastodon, get ahead of the curve and learn what the new playing field is really like, not what we want it to be. The information is out there on websites like this; absorb it, understand it, internalize it and act on it.

    Final, personal note; the boost I’ve gotten from this site and Rollo’s excellent writing in specific is hard to quantify. Having said that, realizing you’ve been sold a bill of goods at absurdly high prices will inspire you to find a way, any way, to better your life on your own terms, social norms be damned. When I finally understood the constant cultural messaging – Man Up, Shut Up, Provide and Agree, Pedestalize the Princess, She’s the Catch, etc., – for what it really is, I’ve never been so happy to be divorced, childless, and child support / alimony payment-free in my entire life. Best of luck to you all for your experience, reflection and advice.

  36. @rollo I need some quick advice on this cause I not feeling too hot about it all.

    Long story short I had a relationship with this young high smv girl for about 8 months but I remained “aloof, somewhat jerkboyish, and indifferent” most of the time. And she was confused with what I wanted pretty much 70% of the time…and so was I.

    Anyways now we’ve been radio silence for like a month (which isn’t uncommon). I texted her last night cause I just said to myself “I don’t care anymore this is exhausted”. It was a trial text no response from her yet.

    Now that I know what oneitis is, and it’s symptoms…I have absolutely no idea how to get rid of it. I’ve fucked two other girls this past month too.

    It’s paralyzingly me and has probably been the single hardest thing for me in terms of progressing my goals and self in life–it paralyzes me and eats at my soul.

    It’s like I can’t control my emotions or I don’t know how to–I feel like a bitch.

    A) is there something I can work on to get rid of this (which seems to happen to me a lot like 3 times–hb 9s tho)
    And

    B)how do you fuck a girl somewhat consistently and not develop feelings for her. No cuddling? I get attached easily or something only when they’re super hot though.

    Thanks

  37. Should Women be trusted with the future?

    Backstory: I have this female friend named Alice that is a bit wild. She is a single mom and despite her wild days AND her slutty behavior towards me. “I thought”, she was a woman who deserved respect. The reason for my belief in her was due to her boyfriend. Alice seemed to have settled down a bit and has moved in with the ultimate betaboy. Betaboy cooks, cleans and picks her mocha colored spawn up at school. All around a “dependable dude”. So dependable and upstanding I wondered how Alice ever bagged him. But alas Betaboy is a bit overweight and Alice has been making comments in recent months about his lack of performance in the bedroom. Like I care… I’m not going there and it didn’t appear that she was saying this to get me interested. (foreshadow of the Hamster Rationale?)
    All and All I have complemented her on her ability to appreciate the gifts that a dependable Beta brings to her life. I really believed that Alice was hittin the wall and getting real about her future and the need for a provider not a bad boy.

    Here’s where The Hyper-Hamster rears its ugly head.

    So anyway Alice this last Friday starts talking about her upcoming month long vacation. Vacation? Yeah she is going to Jamaica to see her Mocha love child’s father. 0.0 Really? I did not know he was from Jamaica… how did she “get” with Jamaica Mon’ ??
    Then followed the most UNSETTLING set of revelations from a female I have ever heard. Much less from a friend (soon to be EX friend btw).

    Turns out that Alice met Jamaica Mon’ about 6 years ago. He was in her circle of friends. As she put it she “knew his business and how good his business was” (wink wink… I almost hurled when she said this). At the time of her impregnation she knew he had already fathered 6 children by 3 other women. That he was an illegal resident in our fair country. AND that he was facing deportation back to Jamaica. Oh the drama how she related how she informed him how to dodge INS. Oh the irony when the day after her Mocha love child was born he was arrested and sent to an INS detention facility. Oh how she was sad to see him sent back to Jamaica and how terrible it was to not talk to him because he could not “afford” a cell phone in Jamaica. (you know where this is going right?)

    Yes it turns out that the “vacation” is a chance for the Mocha love child to see her daddy. Betaboy and Alice will get a free room at Jamaica Mon’s PARENTS PLACE… oh but wait Betaboy can only be allowed to stay 2 weeks due to “his work” and her need to have “quality time” with Jamaica Mon’ and Mocha child. When I asked her if she was going to partake of any “Jamaican Jerk Sauce” at the ‘rents… she said she didn’t like the food (Yes I tried for ironic double entendre since she certainly does like the sausage)

    So I am left with the unsettling fact that in the 21st century after decades of female empowerment. At least 4 women allowed themselves to get knocked up by this zero sum economic freeloading Jamaica Jerk. ALL of Jerk’s kids were born in an indigent care facility. ALL of these kids have been on some kind of public assistance with 3 currently on WIC, Medicaid and Welfare. And to top it off this 30 year old B-Woman who normally appears sane is _traveling internationally_ to be in close proximity to her go to sperm donor for another round of insemination. All the while her BetaHouseBoy will be cleaning the home for her return.

    Over at Aunt Giggles she railed on Rollo for having the audacity to imply that Woman can’t be trusted with the decision of who to sleep pointing out “arranged marriage etc” as examples of male misogyny … After this Jamaica Jerk Story… I don’t think ANY woman can be trusted, they all are insane.

  38. “This joint is simply a fucking puzzlehouse, no joke. As I said to a buddy, if you look around, and you get the feeling that something’s off, and you’re not quite sure what it is, and you start to wondering if it might be you… it ain’t.”

    D-Man, that dragged up an old-ass hippy song from the Pit for me.

    Never knew a man
    Could tell so many lies
    He had a diff’rent story
    For ev’ry pair of eye-es

    How can he remember
    Who he’s talkin’ to?
    Cuz I know it ain’t me
    And I hope it ain’t you ..

    “Yer all just pissin’ in the wind
    You don’t know it
    But you are.”
    And there ain’t nuthin’ like a friend
    Who can tell ya, “yore just pissin’ in the wind”.

    True dat.

  39. MikePhil – in light of 1) the ‘that’s easy for you to say, rich white COO of facebook woman!!’ (mindbogglingly phantom) response and 2) the ‘uhh…wait a minute’ that should logically follow from her directly contradicting their angry AFBB denials in the past several weeks – well, I would informed-ly speculate that the only reason MSM joints are not doing hit pieces on Sandberg is this:

    Her shrill screeching which advocates men being in lockstep with serving the FI and female social primacy by default.

  40. “But what if the mgtow movement is significantly composed of incels/unattractive men who are too ashamed to be upfront about their status (lest they prove the feminist-esque taunt “you’re just bitter you don’t get laid” to be true)? This is always the elephant in the room in mgtow discussion and, to be honest, there was some refreshing honesty from the “PUAhate” people who developed the Looks, Money, and Status theory (basically men who don’t have those things lose out in the sexual marketplace.) Are MGTOWs just low LMS guys who can’t admit their status? What would be the appeal of MGTOW to a man who can at least easily find women of his equivalent sex rank?”

    There are without a doubt lots of unattractive MGTOWs and lots more that may look alright but lack the other qualities you mentioned (money, status, personality). You are thinking of MGTOWs in a very narrow way; being a MGTOW doesn’t mean you have to follow some set of rules that prohibits being with women. To me it basically means you don’t subscribe to the whole date, marry, have children plan because it puts men in a position of weakness. The appeal of MGTOW is freedom. Most men can’t stay single long and get married/date women that just aren’t that great and then fall into a stagnate state of mind since their sexual needs are met. Men tend to get soft when they are in relationships (mentally and physically). I call myself a MGTOW because I prioritize other needs ahead of sex (career, money, time, etc.). Most men prioritize sex ahead of everything else. The ironic thing is the MGTOW mind-set leads to an improved version of yourself (which can lead to more sex) and the typical mind-set pretty much keeps you in your place (wherever that may be). I’ll admit I became a MGTOW because I was not satisfied with myself and the results I was getting with women and sure enough the more I prioritize my own needs the better my results are with women.

    If you are not comfortable with the label then it probably isn’t a lifestyle for you. MGTOW is about not caring what society thinks of you and if you can’t handle a little internet bullying from PUAs then you might not be cut out for it. For me it is about losing the ego that causes you to make bad decisions just because everyone else is making the same poor decisions. Do you really want to get married or do you just want to avoid being alone? Do you really like your life better with your girlfriend or do you stay with her so you fit in everyone else? Whatever your honest answer is to these questions, that is how you should actually live.

    If you live in a non-conventional way there will be backlash to deal with. I am actually reasonably physically attractive (within the top 20% of men honestly) and I get a lot of hate (especially from women) for not being in relationships. It does get tiresome but I feel I am making wise decisions that will allow me to build a better life as time goes on. I could have a pretty normal existence if I wanted but I think having the discipline to not let my hormones and peer pressure lead me through life will give me the chance to move up in the world (more money, better women, etc.).

  41. I’ve read your site periodically for several months. Your communication is organized, seems logical and well researched. Thank you for your effort.

    To gain additional perspective of your overall subject one could study history and ancient culture, especially Stone Age culture and reflect upon how the human sexual social dynamics therein compare to western developed society today.

    A specific example worth studying is the Comanche Indians who almost totally dominated the southern central United States for about 400 years until the late 19th century, only about 140 years ago. The Comanches are worth studying for several reasons. One important reason is that their existence was recent enough to trust the records are at least considerably verifiable and accurate. One book worth reading is Empire of The Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne. Gwynnes book is very well written and documents the period at the end of Comanche dominance at a place and during a time when their ancient culture clashed and contrasted with essentially modern western culture. Quanah Parker, half Comanche half Irish and the last great Comanche chief is the main historical figure. Our current cultural paradigm values contrast with theirs to nearly the most extreme possible.

    In our culture males are raised to suppress their natural drives, desires and INSTINCTS to be compliant with an ever increasing and changing almost incomprehensible plethora of socially imposed laws, rules, policies, edict, boundaries, exclusions, conditions, ect. I surmise the female instinct has not withstood such an assault. Due to pop culture history taught in schools, politics and media manipulation, we consider ourselves “free”. Most tend to believe this lie without examination, comparison, or reflection. We are not “free” by comparison. Consider the freedom to roam as you desire and are able upon several hundred million acres of non-fenced, unowned, unruled land. Your ability to dominate others and defend yourself is solely dependent upon your intelligence, cunning, strength, initiative, ruthlessness and fearlessness. Your constraints are mostly nature, your physical and intellectual limits but very, very few “laws”. This is more like real freedom.

    Comanche braves were raised, encouraged and revered to slaughter other tribes men, then capture, rape and enslave the women. Vicious and barbarous acts were encouraged and required of the individual male to gain respect and ascend tribal hierarchy. The most respected were those who acquired the most wives and horses by whatever means necessary to do so. Men hunted and waged war against other tribes and bands. Only the strongest and most intelligent survived. The women were essentially slaves, sexually and otherwise. They performed almost all work except hunting, war and defending.

    Our concept of “freedom” when compared to the freedom Stone Age males experienced is a pathetic lie. We are sold a fallacious idea of freedom by politicians to gain votes while seeking positions of power. That power is specifically the power to limit or determine our freedom more. Stone Age man was subject to (by today’s standards) extreme risks and natural limits associated with the real freedom he experienced. Those risks and limits were not hedged by communal limitation of the freedom itself.

  42. Jf12: “@jacklabear, “The fact that testosterone was made a controlled substance is an ominous sign of what the culture is doing to destroy masculinity.”
    Awesome putting together the big picture. Female hormones, including but not limited to “natural hormone replacement” estrogenic compounds, can be obtained OTC all over. In addition, birth control pills are available OTC in most countries
    http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/world-women-pill-prescription-article-1.1231467
    *except* for countries that emphasize female choice above all. In countries like the US, females are too afraid that males might slip them something.”

    Female hormones are handed out like candy by doctors, often to adolescent females. And that can really screw them up….they get fat and have a lot of psych issues.
    Since excess testoterone is converted to estrogen, too much of that isn’t a good thing either.

  43. I’m pretty cure some of you guys know about this but here’s to those that don’t:
    http://www.gofundme.com/aih9m8

    His mother has already raised 2,700+ in one day. This is the power of good looks and bad boy temperament. Never mind the tear drop tattoo. I’m pretty sure the guy did murder someone because when he was asked about it, he refused to go further than saying, “it was all in the past.”

    Just look at the comments where these girls rationalize all of this away and claim that he’s a changed man.

    LOL!

    This is just too rich. Imagine all the poor betas in the world who do the right thing by contributing to society, only to get pissed on by women and looked over by the handsome badboy thug who does nothing but slang and bang.

  44. @Liz, re: “Female hormones are handed out like candy by doctors, often to adolescent females. And that can really screw them up….they get fat and have a lot of psych issues.
    Since excess testoterone is converted to estrogen, too much of that isn’t a good thing either.”

    Yes. The sweet spot on the testosterone blood concentration / response curve is 700-1000 ng/dL, and everything above 1000 requires aromatase inhibitors.

    Among the funniest things you may not have quite known before is that ‘roid rage is … and put down your chamomile or you’ll spew … directly proportional to the *estrogen* concentration in steroid users’ blood.

  45. @DHT, yes, women coddle and protect alphas. It’s the first big clue that a teen boy will be an alpha adult: women fight his battles for him

  46. @jf12 The level you are referring to does not separate the ‘free testosterone’ measurement. A person has to ask that ‘free testosterone’ and estrogen levels be checked. Increased estrogen level in men drastically increases the risk of strokes, high blood pressure and diabetes. Victor Pride and Mike from Danger & Play have written and spoken about this. wp.me/P3P5mL-tA

  47. Meh. I wouldn’t read too much into Sandberg. The girls who ride the cock carousel and the guys who ride the pussy coaster usually end up marrying each other anyway. And they are a small percentage of the population. Most people just aren’t that promiscuous by nature. Most of us have a few girlfriends and boyfriends (maybe a live-in relationship) before we end up getting married. Serial monogamy. Its rare that someone with a number of 2 will end up marrying someone with a number of 200, of either sex.

  48. Well, went to the party. Only two girls there, one of their boyfriends was there, and I don’t know about the other one. I didn’t try anything.

    I had a great time. It really got me thinking that if I could have any lifestyle I wanted, it would be full of great friends and a lot of fun, pursuing my passions, and as far as women go, as long as I was getting sex on a regular basis, I think a relationship is the last thing I would want.

    Just by seeing those two girls there, and not wanting to have anything to do with them beyond fucking them raw, was an eye opener. Sure I was joking around a little bit and having some fun with them but all I could think of was tearing their clothes off, bending them over and fucking them, then going home alone and sleeping like a baby.

    I am so starved for sex, but it’s liberating in a way to really feel that. That’s the real urge. It completely washes over any of the emotional stuff.

    I’m not going to go back on what I said. I really do believe what I said. It’s just like…holy shit. I didn’t realize how horny I was. I haven’t jerked off in so long and I’ve just been so depressed and wasting away in isolation — just getting out of the house and getting some social interaction and seeing some new girls was like breathing new life into me.

    The idea of qualifying for sex feels absolutely ridiculous to me right now. ONE-itis seems ridiculous too. “Fuck me or fuck you” fits the bill perfectly. I have lived in a sex starved hell for so many fucking years, I’m horny as hell and am not getting anything even remotely related to satisfaction.

    That is bullshit. More specifically, it means that I shouldn’t put up with bullshit. “Fuck me or fuck you.” I want a girl that’s going to put out, and ideally I’d want to never see her again after I was done with her, and then move on to the next one.

    Years of this bullshit…I have to internalize “No more.” Qualifying, hoping, wishing, romanticizing — it’s all a buffer against facing the reality that I want to fuck my brains out, and that’s about all I want as far as women go.

    Even with all the ONE-itis cases I’ve had, the main reason I was pissed off wasn’t because they didn’t want a relationship or feel a certain way about me or whatever. I wanted to fuck their brains out. I didn’t want them to give me their love and support and nurturing or any of whatever that stuff is. I wanted them to come over in a skirt so I could lift it up and bang the fuck out of them until the bed was covered in sweat.

    As long as I could have them screaming and coming as hard as they could and getting all the satisfaction I want out of them until I felt completely satiated, I could give a flying fuck what they felt about me. And I’d rather not even know, and just move on to the next one without even getting involved in any of that drama bullshit.

    This feels really out of character for me, but this has to be coming from somewhere inside of me. Seeing those girls and having those urges and realizing that I’m so pissed off and depressed and angry because I’m not having any sex is kind of a kick in the ass.

    The issue now is how do I keep this feeling and use it to my advantage? My tendency is to just revert back to the helplessness/hopelessness and giving up on getting sex out of frustration and fear.

    I want sex, I feel incapable of getting sex, and I divert my attention from the fact that I want sex because it’s too painful to think about. If I could just hold onto this energy and channel it, maybe I could actually pull myself out of this hellhole.

    My fears about pursuing sex…the desire for sex is pretty fucking strong, and if I stop suppressing it, sweeping it under the rug, ignoring it, and dressing it up in romance…maybe that energy will start to work in my favor. Just pure, raw, sexual desire.

    Maybe I really have been running away from admitting I have sexual desires by dressing them up in romance, like ONE-itis. If I fully embrace my honest sexual urges, whatever woman I fucked right now, it wouldn’t matter to me. I just want to do it.

    I’m very uncomfortable with that, and maybe my discomfort about owning those feelings is what’s keeping me from acting on them. I’m not comfortable wanting sex, I have so much fear and other stuff about it.

    If I let go of that fear, what goes with it? The desire for just one girl to have sex with, the feelings of dependency, the self hatred, etc. All that’s left is my sexual desire and my urge to satisfy it.

    Focusing just on that desire is something I’ve never done before. I think it would be healthy for me to give it a try.

    For anyone else struggling with ONE-itis I recommend not jerking off for a while and then just going out and look at beautiful women. You might be surprised how quickly your ONE is replaced when you see some new girl with a better ass or a prettier face. They’re everywhere.

    I’m almost in shock right now that I’m saying all this. It isn’t anything I haven’t thought before, but saying it here — have I really repressed my sexual desires that much?

    In a word: dude, that is fucked up.

  49. Softek,

    “I have all this fear inside of me, I feel paralyzed, and the worst part is this: If I’m not going to do anything to change my fear, the sympathy won’t help. And people don’t want to hear about the fear if there’s nothing they can do about it to help. So all I feel like I can do is keep it bottled up inside, and I guess it boils over into writing comments like that on this blog, because I have nowhere else to go.

    “I really think I would be much more willing to express a fear to a friend if I had one that could help me with approaching women *IN PERSON*. Like someone I could go to a bar with, or someone who even knew some girls they could introduce me to.

    “It isn’t an excuse, I know. I’m just in a lot of pain, and I KNOW that nothing is going to change until I do the outer work. The inner work can only go so far.

    “And I know I’m using the inner work as an escape from doing the outer work. Because I’m afraid of it.”

    .

    This could be an excellent source of practical information for you: http://yareallyarchive.com/

    After you study this for a while, I think that it would be a good idea for you to try what I once convinced (with a bit of monetary inducement) a business acquaintance (who sounded a lot like you) to do: go out where he would be anonymous, and then fail with 100 women, intentionally and completely, while prolonging the interaction as much as possible.

    He never made it even close to number 50, because it became too much trouble (effort) for him to continue to force himself to fail, even to make me pay up, as he began to see how he would otherwise succeed.

    He didn’t “overcome” his fear of failure with women by “facing it” and trying to succeed, which is a lot harder than it sounds.

    He moved on from it, because he got bored with it, because he had become desensitized to the point that holding on to it, or even reacting to it, when it did happen, was no longer worth the energy.

  50. Softek, you could hire a low end or high end prostitute depending on your affordability. Or you could just go on adultfriendfinder dot com, put in your zip code and find someone up for casual sex this very night. Picking up randoms in bars is also a possibility but that might be harder and you might need “game” so I’d just try adult friend finder first.

  51. jf12: “Among the funniest things you may not have quite known before is that ‘roid rage is … and put down your chamomile or you’ll spew … directly proportional to the *estrogen* concentration in steroid users’ blood.”

    I hadn’t heard that, but it makes sense. I must’ve had ‘roid rage when I was on the pill. I’d be in a nuthouse today if I’d stayed on them.

  52. OK guys, most of what’s said here has “losers” written all over it, so let’s look at the real picture instead.

    The key determinant in any male/female relationship is not Alpha or Beta, or Gamma or Delta, or any other psycho-babble for that matter, it’s unquestionably who can out-think whom.

    The IQ of the average man and average woman is 100 but the normal distribution (the bell curve) for men is much broader than for women, thus there are far more exceptionally clever men than exceptionally clever women but there are also far more exceptionally “dumb” men. Dumb people make dumb decisions (see Wikipedia – The Bell Curve – Economic and Social Correlates of IQ), including who they marry.

    So, hypergamy or whatever other fancy name you want to give to any aspect of female behaviour, more of the smart guys will figure out a way to still finish on top (pun intended) and less of the dumb guys.

    Forget Alpha or Beta, it’s smart or dumb that ultimately decides.

  53. @ Equilibro – Apparently you are not one of those blessed with a high iq though…because your supposedly earthshaking analysis that most of us losers here don’t get is fatuous, ignorant nonsense. The presence of intelligent Betas invalidates your theory. If it was merely a matter of intelligence, why would any man who is smarter than his mate be beta. Perhaps in the future you’d be better off leaving the thinking about big ideas to people who are actually intelligent?

  54. @equilibro:
    It’s definitely not intelligence. It is in fact smart guys who fail the most with women mainly because they overanalyze them. There is NOTHING to analyse, the riddle (women) can’t be solved, because it is not a riddle.
    To put it short, the heart of these poor dudes isn’t in sync with their brain, they’re not “being themselves”.

  55. @ softie – I so badly want to laugh at you for being such fucking blue puller and being so fuckig obnoxiously arrogant at the same time, telling guys like me what’s wrong with me when you can’t even take ownership of your own sexual desires. But I can’t cuz it’s not funny. It pathological. You seem mesmerized by your own “pain” and past wounds. You wrap yourself up in dime store analysis but you barely actually act on any of what u learn here. It’s unnecessary. And oh yeah, I’ll bet you a thousand bucks I was abused more horribly than you. Unless your stories have metal brushes, stabbings, fire and attempted murder too.

    You are drowning in self absorption and seem to be too busy listening to yourself to actually internalize what is on offer here. Yet your approach is what has made u miserable in the first place, yet you cling to it with all your might. Here’s a suggestion. How about you actually take the red pill? Not talk about it, not analyze it, just get it? Get busy killing your beta and whatever you do, stop feeling so goddamned sorry for yourself. It gets u nowhere.

  56. @ Glenn: it’s a common problem, actually people truly capable of self-reflection are very rare. Girls can’t at all (it seems) and many guys neither.
    There has been a lot of valuable information both in Rollo’s posts, the comments and from you as well! However the motivation has to come from the inside, external sources don’t serve as well, I guess…

  57. Lay off, Glenn. Softek is making progress. And if he changes as much in the next six months as you did in the last six, he’ll be very different the next time you pay attention to him.

  58. @Softek

    Well, went to the party. Only two girls there, one of their boyfriends was there, and I don’t know about the other one. I didn’t try anything.

    I had a great time…

    …The idea of qualifying for sex feels absolutely ridiculous to me right now. ONE-itis seems ridiculous too. “Fuck me or fuck you” fits the bill perfectly. I have lived in a sex starved hell for so many fucking years, I’m horny as hell and am not getting anything even remotely related to satisfaction.

    Not to minimize your pain, but I know there are men who frequent the comments section of Rollo’s who in their lifetime have gone far far longer than you have without sexual validation from a woman. I’m certain it’s hell for you right now, I’m certain because just like yourself, I was there. M3’s incel post is essentially gospel in the manosphere, if you haven’t read it, do so:

    http://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/confessions-of-a-reformed-incel/

    …and then remember that there are men who endured what M3 went through for even longer.

    Your writing about your situation only focuses on the fact that you can’t yet climb mount Everest, even though your legs haven’t grown in yet. That really seems to be your stumbling block at the moment. Stop focusing on the fact that you can’t have sex, and focus on what you *can* do now that will eventually lead to having some control of your sexual life. That’s the key.

    Women are given a ridiculously valuable gift. Simply by being born women, they can get sexual validation whenever they want. What you need to do is simply accept the fact that you will not have that ridiculously easy life in this department. Your life as a man is one of self-improvement and learning to charm women. Your life is a journey of learning to achieve sexual validation. The women in your life, and some rare men, will never understand the difficulties of your journey.

    Focus on *your* journey learning to interact with women with sexual tension implied, and the sex will come. That journey is filled with tiny steps. If you haven’t approached, you approach until you can do it easily. If you haven’t generated interest with conversation, you learn to generate interest. If you haven’t maintained frame in your interactions, you learn to maintain frame. If you haven’t learned to get numbers, you ask for numbers. If you haven’t escalated in the proper timeframe, you learn to escalate… little steps day by day. If you’re not taking the little steps daily, you’re actually going backwards.

    Michael Jordan once put out a video talking about his training methods and motivation. I can’t find an online version of that video (…very strange…), but in that video, he put his own life beautifully. He narrated his video, so you see him shooting around a hoop by himself, shagging his own rebounds, and shooting again, over and over and over, nonstop… His words over this video were:

    “Every day I feel I have to improve”

  59. Every Jeremy said times 1000. You have to learn to walk before you can run.

    Evolution, including all the external hardships that impacted humans in the past – created mans lot in life to continue strive to improve and show his value, to women and society et large in order to have a chance at mating. It was those men who were selected for that ensured the day to day business of life becoming better and more productive than the previous generation took place.

    If women didn’t select for that, and just had sex with every and any man – life wouldn’t have reached the level it has here in the 21st century.

    That said, one wonders now that life has become so pleasant and comfortable for women, their own selection process has evolved to a point where it is going to lead society back to a darker age.

    I recall reading a study or thesis or something a long time ago, the only bit i remember was it talking about hawks and doves and how in each generation there are more of one than the other. It never achieves balance, it’s always more of one than the other, and once it goes too far to one side, the pendulum shifts and it starts to swing hard to the other – out of necessity to counter the ills brought about by having too many Alpha’s(hawks) vs. Beta’s (doves) at any given time.

    If anyone has any clue what im talking about, please chime in with the link.

  60. @ Glenn

    To be fair, you’re attaching to your stuff too. Even saying you had it worse than me or whatever is comparing yourself to me. You’re doing the same thing you’re accusing me of. You aren’t understanding what I’m saying.

    Why would you mention anything with steel brushes or fire or attempted murder unless you still had an emotional charge to these memories? You have an emotional charge to your memories of abuse and you’re attaching to them as if the memories are actually real, and you’re trying to give me some of your special stuff by dumping that pain on me.

    The past is over. It isn’t real. You are the one using the steel brush and the fire now. You’re not a kid anymore. I’m not saying this to judge you, I’m saying this to re-affirm exactly what you’re telling me.

    It doesn’t matter what happened to you in the past or how horrible it was: if you’re replaying these movies in your mind, you’re the one doing it to yourself now. If your dad beat you with a hammer in front of a bunch of other kids when you were a kid, and you’re replaying that memory over and over and you’re feeling like it’s actually happening, you’re the one beating yourself with a hammer now.

    Do you understand that? You keep asserting that I’m attaching to my stuff. I was abused. I know what it’s like. And I’m trying to deal with it not by forcing it away but actually dissolving the emotional charge to it.

    If you tried using NLP and actually dissolved and physically changed memories you’ve had, you’d understand what I’m talking about. You keep calling it psychobabble, but you’re the one who’s clinging to your memories of abuse as if they’re actually real. You don’t understand what I’m saying when I say that MEMORIES AREN’T REAL. You are doing it to yourself. And if you don’t physically change the memories that are controlling your reactions, they’re going to keep driving your bus.

    The abuse I went through was horrible. I don’t care about getting in a pissing contest with you about who “had it worse” because that’s the complete opposite of the point I’m making.

    Do you understand that? I’m pushing your buttons and you keep denying that the buttons don’t exist.

    I’m agreeing with what you’re saying, Glenn, but you keep attacking me because you don’t understand the point I’m making. I don’t care who had it worse. I’m completely agreeing with you that I have to let go of my stuff.

    Glenn is right. I’m identifying with my pain, and that’s a problem. The point I’m making is the awareness of that pain is useful IF YOU HAVE THE INTENTION OF LETTING IT GO.

    If you don’t have the intention of letting it go, it just keeps repeating. Glenn is right. And if I keep replaying the story that I’m a virgin, I’ve gone x many years without any sexual contact at all, and I keep telling myself this story that I’m a chump, that I can’t get any pussy, that I’m a hopeless romantic, that I have mental illness I’ll never get over —

    — I’ll never get over it.

    Glenn, by the way, I hope you understand that I know what happened to you really happened to you. I’m not writing off anything you went through. I’m just saying that my belief is that memories are not real. The past is over. It really happened in the past, but I’m not a kid anymore, and you’re not a kid anymore.

    And with that mindset, it doesn’t matter that I’m a virgin or how many years I went without sex. I could make the argument that for my age and as a percentage of my lifetime I’ve gone way longer even than that guy who said 12 years without anything. From when I hit puberty and wanted to be with girls it was around 9 years before I had ANYTHING, including even a hug, and even then it was only over the course of 5 days, and since then it’s been another 4 years, so I think in comparison to a lot of guys I have in fact had it pretty bad.

    But you see what I’m doing? Glenn says I’m identifying with my pain, feeling sorry for myself, and wallowing in my misery.

    And he’s right. What I’m saying is I want to understand what I’m doing in my mind, identify what stories I’m telling myself, and then STOP DOING IT.

    If I don’t know the stories I’m telling myself, how can I change them? Glenn is arguing to just get out there and do it. My argument is that there’s a lot of evidence in his comments that he is still identifying with memories he holds of himself, and he hasn’t let them go.

    He might argue that you don’t have to let them go, because he’s persevered in spite of his horrible memories.

    But he’s accusing me of identifying with being tough and persevering through my horrible memories while he’s holding his up like a badge of honor in the EXACT SAME WAY I’M DOING.

    That’s all I’m pointing out. I’m not getting in a pissing contest, I’m just pointing out that he hasn’t done the work on himself that I’m talking about just as much as I haven’t done it on myself. Actually, more, because I’ve worked on actually flipping my memories of abuse, and that’s why I’m not talking about what happened to me and I don’t feel a need to defend myself and “prove” how horrible the stuff I went through was. Unlike Glenn who has just felt the need to prove himself to me by mentioning some specific instances of abuse, like he had to prove himself in a court case to me about how horrible his childhood was.

    I’m not criticizing him as a person, I’m just pointing out that he’s attaching to his story about himself in a pathological way just like I am. He’s pissed and feels a need to prove himself to me, even though I’ve said repeatedly that I agree with his criticism of me and I’ve agreed that he’s right. I am wallowing in my misery.

    All I’m saying is that you have to actually deal with that behavior and change it. Forcing it out of your mind is just fighting an uphill battle.

    I understand that what I’m saying is getting lost in translation because I’m emotionally dumping stuff on everyone here and complaining. I’m still doing the behavior Glenn’s accusing me of doing. And he’s absolutely right that I’m doing it, and that I need to change.

    Regardless of whatever Glenn’s issues are, he’s right about his criticism of me. I’m identifying with my pain over and over again and digging my own grave.

    The NLP techniques do work. But if I really was applying myself with them and making a true effort, I wouldn’t be bitching about how hard my life is and how sexually frustrated I am on this forum. I would be out in the world getting what I want by applying what I’ve learned here.

    The problem is that I believe just because I’ve never approached a girl, that I’ve gone so long without blah blah blah, that I don’t have the skills

    Long story short, I AM being a coward. I’m afraid to try anything. I live with my parents and I’m using that as an excuse too. That I’ll get rejected for that, so I shouldn’t even try. Or that I don’t have the experience with girls, so I can’t try because I’ll just fail.

    It’s true that most guys build these skills far earlier in their lives. But that’s just an excuse.

    I’m afraid of doing it and if I keep telling myself I’m afraid, I’m never going to do it and I’ll just be digging my own grave.

    I keep talking about NLP and Faster EFT. They really work. They really do. But I’m talking about them instead of doing them, and I keep complaining about my fears, and I’m not letting them go.

    If I wanted to let them go I would use Faster EFT, dissolve what’s holding me back, and go out and get what I want.

    I’m just complaining here.

    I guess one thing, to be fair, is I feel like this is a supportive community. And to be fair, everyone here complains to some extent. If everyone was 100% applying what they learned from this blog and the book, they wouldn’t be posting comments. They’d be out improving their marriages or relationships or whatever. Why would they be talking about it here?

    So I don’t think it’s productive to have shame about writing here. I will take the criticism and acknowledge it for what it is, but I’m not ashamed of myself for wallowing in my misery.

    It’s just “point taken.” Glenn is right. I’m still writing here instead of going out and doing anything, because I’m so terrified of the idea of approaching a girl with the intention of taking her home with me or getting her number or whatever. It feels impossible.

    So if I want to walk the talk, I should use Faster EFT to dissolve that emotional charge that’s keeping me stuck in that belief. What am I doing inside my mind successfully in order to create this perception of myself?

    The goal is to change my perception of myself, get rid of the emotional charges to these beliefs about myself, and then it will be easier to go out and get what I want because I won’t be fighting with myself.

    Even the one girl I did hook up with that one time a few months ago, I was so nervous I could hardly get it up. I had a panic attack. And right when I was about to put the condom on and fuck her, and finally lose my virginity, my dad started pounding on the door and said “I need to talk to you, are you in there, I need to talk to you” pound pound pound. I told him I was busy and that I would talk to him later. He just kept pounding. She got up and put her clothes back on and left and that was the end of the that.

    Now that is an emotional charge. I’m glad I hooked up with her but it was a really discouraging experience, and I feel like if I’m going to get with a girl and have a panic attack and then fuck up like that, what’s the point?

    That’s a story I tell myself too. So I have actually applied some of the stuff I’ve learned here and had some ‘success’ but the experience was also filled with bad things and I’m attaching to those bad things, and believing if I go out and hook up with a girl again, the same thing will happen. So I’m even more afraid of it.

    That’s what I’m trying to dissolve — all that fear. It isn’t helping me. I know that. I dissolved the fear enough to hook up with that girl but when she actually got here I just freaked out.

    But it also wasn’t all bad and it wasn’t a completely horrible experience. This is what I mean about memories not being real. If I focus on her leaving and the anxiety and all that, it’s a bad experience. If I focus on making her come and her being understanding of the situation and not judging me and telling me I had a nice body and a great, perfect cock, then the whole emotional charge behind it changes.

    Then I feel like hey, I’m fucking awesome, sex is fun, girls like me, I’m attractive, and I can go out and get more.

    As opposed to feeling I’m a chump, I’m a loser, I’m going to have panic disorder and depression for the rest of my life, I’m fucked, I’m always going to be a virgin, I hate myself.

    Self perception is extremely important. And how we hold our memories and the emotional charge we have to them plays a very, very big role in self-perception — without our even being aware of it.

    So it’s not psychobabble. If you read Monsters and Magical Sticks and understand NLP it all makes perfect sense.

    I understand the criticism that complaining isn’t helping me and that inner work doesn’t replace outer work. You can use NLP / Faster EFT as an escapist tactic. And I’m probably doing that.

    But don’t rail on it just because I’m not applying it effectively. They are incredibly helpful techniques and I want to share them with people, because if someone else actually applies them and uses them, it could help them a lot.

    I might be having problems with girls but by using this stuff I’ve sharply reduced my insomnia, panic attacks, and a lot of my negative self image. So that actually is progress. Even if I’m not having sex, I have initiated at least one hookup, my negative self-perception and the horrible feelings inside, like the sinking feeling in my stomach from reading people’s comments here — have largely gone away.

    And that is very powerful. So I get what you’re saying but you can’t say that I haven’t made progress or applied anything I’ve learned here. I have. And it’s not a bad thing to feel good about myself for that.

    You’re mistaking my emphasis on flipping the negatives into positives for focusing solely on the negatives.

    Even my rant about sex was meant to be positive. Not feeling sorry for myself, but flipping the feelings of powerlessness and emotional neediness into self-assertion and empowerment — knowing what I want. Identifying what I want, and not giving myself an excuse to shy away from identifying what I want.

    You keep saying it’s all BS. But it’s not. It isn’t black and white. I’m doing the inner work and I’m slowly making progress. What is BS is if I’m using inner work to avoid outer work — and I’ll give it to you that I do have a tendency to do that. So thank you for pointing that out.

    But the using inner work to avoid outer work is BS. NLP is not psychobabble and just because my personal problem is using inner work to avoid outer work does not mean that these techniques don’t work or that they don’t have tremendous potential to help people if they use it. I’m fine with the personal criticism, but I don’t want people writing off techniques that can actually help them a lot.

    Whatever I wrote here in this comment that sounds emotional or wallowing in my misery or whatever, I’m actually pretty calm right now, and I’m not pissed off at anyone here, not even Glenn. And I’d actually like to apologize to Glenn for whatever I’ve said that pissed him off and also point out that I know he’s right, and he’s making a valid point. I’m not denying that.

    I don’t think it’s wrong to ask friends for help, and I can consider that too. Even just going to the bar with a friend might help or make it easier, or maybe going to a meetup group. One of my friends has met girls by doing that — going on meetup group hikes and things like that. I never think about any of these possibilities, so that’s what I’m going to start doing.

  61. Exfernal Wrote:

    (middle ground) “Between what? Spinning plates, serial monogamy and “pay to play”? Pick your poison.”

    You are right about that. I end up rotating amongst those options, although much less of the last two as I metabolize the red pill. I was having a moment of idealism hoping that there was something more nourishing.

    Not having found it, the ‘poison’ I pick as a foundation for all of it is testosterone.
    It’s bad enough that nature seems to be conspiring against us with the plethora of xeno and phyto estrogens and the dearth of xeno and phyto androgens.
    But it gets worse. The “toxic masculinity” meme is getting more and more entrenched. Men are becoming afraid of their own T. When I suggest to middle age men to get testosterone replacement, they get a nervous look on their face and say ‘no thanks, I don’t want to go there again’. It’s like they are afraid of being a normal healthy male.
    So now you have men willingly castrating themselves, considering it a relief to have falling testosterone as they age. You see young men ripping out their body hairs one by one to be considered worthy of the attentions of these ‘young hotties’.
    Build a beta indeed. Did anyone notice how even James bond is getting beta-ized now?
    In Skyfall we saw M as a short haired woman managing the Bond who could no longer manage himself with his drinking. How about that incredibly beta chivalry scene where Bond risked his life trying to save that woman who had just grossly betrayed him for the sake of some other guy?
    These outrages need to be resisted by men or we will end up like those mini dick alligators. Don’t swallow the estrogen pill.

  62. It goes without saying that such an admission as Sandberg’s can only come from a position of supreme power and advantage. No woman is going to talk openly about AFBB and her preference for jerks, unless she’s pretty damned sure that there will be lots of nice, sex starved betas willing to wait out her party years, alone and celibate, while she has her fun with the alphas – and then, knowing that she has had all this fun with other men, still be ready to wife her up and invest in her, because they have no other options.

    Free Northerner retweeted this earlier today from Tinderfessions…

    After fucking dozens of guys I decided to try a virgin. He’s going to be a doctor and already talking about marriage. #jackpot – Maria

    It’s just so over the top and in your face, really, this open taunting of beta men. Telling beta men, straight up, ‘We’re going to sleep with guys we think are hotter than you, and then when we’ve decided that we’ve slept with enough of them, we’re going to settle for you. And you will be there, because you have to be, and there’s nothing you can do about it. In fact, we’re so sure that you’ll be there for us, desperately waiting for us to get tired of the guys we think are hotter than you, that we’re just going to come out and tell you that we’re doing this all the while. We’ll give them our best for free, up front, but you on the other hand will have to work for it and wait for it. And you’ll STILL wife us up in the end, even knowing all of this ahead of time. Because, really, what other choice do you have?’

    The good news, though, is that this creates a tremendous opportunity for the men who are smart to the system and willing to take advantage of it. Party girls seeking out betas for marriage has become so predictable that a man can pose as such a ‘nice guy’ beta and get laid pretty well with these girls, so long as he doesn’t do like the poor hapless virgin referenced in the tweet above and fall in love with the whore.

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/07/23/hypergamous-arms-race-revenge-of-the-nerds/

  63. One example to clarify my point:

    I have some fear or phobia of using the bathroom around other people. I have no idea why. For a long time I’ve been working on this. Forcing myself to take a piss at work, or god forbid I have to use the toilet, even though everything inside of me tells me to just hold it. I have a marginal success rate. A lot of times I do just hold it because the anxiety gets so bad it feels easier to endure the misery of holding it in rather than using the bathroom when other people could walk in, or god forbid, if they were already there.

    I’ve told myself a million times over the years that it’s irrational. Stupid. Doesn’t make sense. I’m making this up in my head. I’m doing it to myself. But even telling myself that over and over again and forcing myself to do it, the anxiety is still just as bad every time.

    If the bathroom’s crowded anywhere I physically can’t go. I’ve timed it and have had times I stood there with my dick in my hand for literally 5-10 minutes and couldn’t get a stream going because I was so anxious, and the anxiety would just keep getting worse until I couldn’t take it anymore and then just decided to leave and hold it in until I get home.

    I don’t believe chronic ONE-itis is that different, or whatever else the problem is. I’m sure there are plenty of guys who are spinning plates and generally following Rollo’s advice on an external level, that still can’t shake their internal feelings. They’re trying their best to play the “Alpha” role and forcing themselves to keep themselves in check, but the internal “Beta” is still not going away. There has to be at least one person in this situation. If not a lot more. You can read all of his writing about ONE-itis a million times and still have ONE-itis.

    People keep referring to this as “killing the beta,” but to me, “killing the beta” is a parallel to forcing myself to use the bathroom over and over again despite being terrified of it. I’m still just as terrified of it as I was the first time I forced myself to do it.

    You can tell yourself “Why” over and over again. You’re not getting it, just get it, get it through your fucking head — but it’s trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. You can yell at yourself all you want and beat yourself over the head with “the truth” until you’re a bloody pulp and still not get it.

    You can understand hypergamy and ONE-itis on an intellectual level and still emotionally react the same way to women. You can change your behavior and not let on that you have ONE-itis, and appear “Alpha” on the outside, and still have it. You can spin plates and still have it. It might make it feel less intense, it might distract you for a while, but those inner resources you have in order to produce ONE-itis or whatever the problem it is you have is still there. And you take it with you everywhere you go.

    Knowledge about the specific problem we have does not negate the emotional resources we have that we use to create our problems. Even acting on that knowledge does not negate the emotional resources we have that we use to create our problems.

    I know that my fear of using the bathroom around other people is irrational and extremely limiting and destructive to my life. And I force myself to push through it. But it’s still running my life for me — I still have the inner resources to produce this phobia, and I keep producing it. And I have no idea why I’m doing it. I intellectually know that I’m creating the problem, according to my belief system that my problem is my problem, and in order to have that problem, I have to be thinking a certain way and doing something correctly in my mind in order to have it and keep it.

    But I have no idea why I have that phobia. No bad memories about bathrooms that I’m aware of. No idea why I’m doing it. But I believe I have the resources to produce that phobia — otherwise I wouldn’t have it. Subconsciously there is some program inside of me that’s making me fear using bathrooms around other people, and I still have those resources even after forcing myself to use the bathroom around other people dozens of times.

    It just occurred to me right now to try this: imagine taking a shit (it’s so hard for me to even write that — a lot of shameful and stupid feelings coming up that I don’t want to think about). Imagine I’m out somewhere and I really have to go — imagine the feeling in my gut. There are tons of people around, and there’s no fan in the bathroom, people can even hear me.

    Then I can try using the Faster EFT technique. Go into the trance of fear. Imagining that I’m there, that it’s really happening. Tap on it to pull yourself out of the trance, then go back and check. Imagine the scenario, see on a scale of 0-10 how much it bothers you, and keep repeating the process of going into and out of the trance until it gets to a 0, or as close to it as possible.

    I could even try this by going to a public bathroom when I don’t have to go. Just sit on the toilet, feel the panic, then tap it out as people walk in and out of the bathroom. I’d have the privacy of a stall. Nobody could see what I’m doing. The idea of doing that scares the living hell out of me, and maybe that would be a good thing to practice. The goal is to aim at exactly your worst fear — what is the one place you don’t want to go, the one thought you can’t bear to think of, the scenario that you’re so terrified of.

    Since I believe we produce the problem in our minds, I believe we can go into that worst fear by imagining it. Close our eyes and picture being in this situation we’re so scared of. Focus on the feelings we have in reaction to them, and then tap it out. Keep imagining the worst fear, feel all the feelings that come up, then pull yourself out of the trance, and then go back into it until it goes away.

    Even if I have to force myself to approach women and all that, I still have this bathroom phobia, and I think that since I’m not unique, that problem I have is a general representation of problems other people have with all kinds of things. And it also applies to my fear of approaching and having sex with girls because it’s a problem that’s produced the same way — I have the internal resources to produce this fear, whether I’m aware of what they are or not. I have to be doing something correctly in my mind — having a belief, attaching to a story, pictures, emotions, memories — in order to maintain this fear.

    I haven’t addressed my bathroom phobia using NLP/Faster EFT yet, and that’s one thing I can try working on right now.

    Anyway, yeah. That’s the point I’m making. I’m not unique, and my bathroom problem is not unique. It’s representative of other problems other people have. And forcing yourself to face those situations over and over again does not always make them go away, as my situation is evidence of — again, I’m not unique.

    I’m arguing that we need all the tools in our toolbox that we can have afford to have, and sharing whatever tools we have with other people will also help them to get better, as much as it helps us to get better. Instead of just accusing people of not trying and making them feel bad about it we should be thinking of how we actually solve the problem. Solution oriented. Instead of pointing out what we’re all doing wrong, point out what we can do right. What do you want? What kind of life would you like to have? Instead of being afraid of girls and sex, what kind of girls would you like to spend time with, what kind of sex would you like to have, what positions, what fun would you like to have with girls?

    Things like that. Yelling and criticizing is just making red underlines on a paper about everything we’re doing wrong, and is not the most effective way to help people do things right.

    I know that my bathroom phobia is not helping me. I know it’s destructive. Knowing that and knowing that I just need to “get over it” has not helped me just get over it. Parallel to my problems with girls/relationships/sex/whatever. I’m not unique and my problems are not unique.

    Van Gogh said once we have an understanding of one thing and can do one thing well, we automatically have an understanding of many things. I believe that completely. One problem is seeing women/sex/relationship problems as completely isolated and separate from the other problems we have in our lives.

    We’re not unique, and our problems are not unique — but the way we internally represent our problems is unique, according to the memories and beliefs we hold within ourselves about ourselves, and when we address that and clear it out then I think we can make real changes.

    Hopefully that makes sense to whoever’s reading this, and you can realize that I’m not advocating running away from our problems, but understanding that there’s more than one way to face them head-on, and it’s especially important to have more than one tool when facing things head-on isn’t making your problem go away, and you don’t understand why you still have it.

  64. @Retrenched re: “It’s just so over the top and in your face, really, this open taunting of beta men.”

    You can always tell whether someone is a girl if they treat beta males i.e. nice guys poorly just for being nice. Always.

  65. Also, sorry to Glenn again. I haven’t cleared out my abuse memories and it was kind of a dick thing to just tell you that you’re making it all up in your mind.

    Even though I really believe that you are. You’re not being abused, and you’re the one doing it to yourself now because you’re holding onto those memories and believing that they’re real, because when you think of what happened to you it feels real.

    Basically I was pissed off at you because that’s exactly what you did to me — harsh advice. It’s true advice. Very true. But is it presented in a way that’s helpful?

    I just wanted to give you a taste of your own medicine by scolding you about something you feel hurt about. I was getting a lot of enjoyment about pushing your buttons and hitting you where you’re weak, because that’s what I felt you did to me.

    So you bringing up your childhood abuse memories gave me a perfect chance. Although I did have enough self control to not call you a pussy, and say that you were being a whiny bitch just because mommy burned you when you were a little boy — and to just get the fuck over it and stop being a cunt.

    Or was it daddy that scraped you up with a wire brush or did something else to you? Oh, poor little Glenn can’t grow up and get over his mommy and daddy issues. You’re not unique buddy, and the shit you went through is shit we all went through. Wah wah wah. You’re doing it to yourself, because you can’t get mommy and daddy out of your head, and you think you have it so rough just because they hurt you.

    Well, a lot of us get hurt, and what happened to you isn’t special. You just can’t grow up and get the fuck over it. You’re way older than I am and you still can’t deal with — Christ, dude, you really need to take a look inside yourself.

    ^^^ Does that piss you off at all? Or no?

    See what I mean? That’s what a trigger is. And I could’ve been a total cunt by pushing all your buttons where you’re weak, and getting you riled up, and saying something like that to you without explaining that I’m deliberately saying those things to rile you up, not because I actually think you’re a pussy.

    I’m even admitting that I’m pushing your buttons, and you still might be pissed off. Because I just wrote a bunch of shit to you that was very offensive to you and stirred up your issues. That’s a trigger.

    But that isn’t going to help you, and it’s probably just going to make you pissed off, and if you saw me in person I’m sure the only thing you’d want to do is pin me down and burn me or abuse me or torture me in just the same way, or worse, than your parents abused and tortured you. Or if you had enough self control to not take it that far, just yell at me and tell me to fuck off and that I have no idea what you’ve been through.

    I know, because I’ve wanted to do that to other people my whole life. I used to spend a lot of time waiting for people to provoke me just so I had a reason to completely fuck them up and give them some of my special stuff. And I did pick on some kids and terrorize them because the feeling of power I got was intoxicating — now I’m the one in control. I’m powerful. And now I can be the one hurting someone else just the same way I was hurt. Scream at them, abuse them, make them feel terrorized and helpless just like my parents did to me.

    That’s what I meant by triggers. They’re real and it’s a good thing to be aware of because if we don’t understand them, we’re going to think the best way to solve our problems is to hate other people, beat other people up, kill other people, torture other people, etc.

    I’m just messing with you, but I wonder even if you know that I’m messing with you, do you feel that on an emotional level? Can you read what I wrote about making fun of you being abused, and not be pissed off, even though you know I was just messing around to make a point?

    I don’t think you’re a pussy and I could say I think you’re a very strong person for enduring whatever hell you endured and going on to achieve all the things you achieved. And that’s what I actually believe.

    But maybe I pissed you off too much and even after saying that, all you want to do is tell me to fuck off. Is that the case? If so, mission accomplished, and I rest my case about triggers.

  66. Softek – good work going to that party. And it was ‘work’ in a way, right? But you had a great time. And it brought up some very primal sexual stuff for you, which is a step in the right direction. Now – tomorrow is Monday. If you live within an hour’s drive of any small city, there will likely be a young professional’s meetup happy hour. Just punch ‘happy hour meetup group young professionals (your city)’ into Google. You can do what you just did 7 days a week. And with the YP type or volunteer/charity-type gatherings, there’s absolutely no pressure wrt dating or hooking up or anything like that. Many people that go to those are attached, actually. You can go and give/help/inspire others and work on your own personal growth at the same time. That’s what outer work is all about. Nice job, and keep moving forward.

  67. Just read about Esther Vilar and watched an interview on youtube. She wrote her book “The Manipulation of Men” in 1975.

  68. @Retrenched,

    “It’s just so over the top and in your face, really, this open taunting of beta men. Telling beta men, straight up, ‘We’re going to sleep with guys we think are hotter than you, and then when we’ve decided that we’ve slept with enough of them, we’re going to settle for you. And you will be there, because you have to be, and there’s nothing you can do about it. In fact, we’re so sure that you’ll be there for us, desperately waiting for us to get tired of the guys we think are hotter than you, that we’re just going to come out and tell you that we’re doing this all the while. We’ll give them our best for free, up front, but you on the other hand will have to work for it and wait for it. And you’ll STILL wife us up in the end, even knowing all of this ahead of time. Because, really, what other choice do you have?’”

    Great bit. That’s such clear thinking on your part and a Rollo-esque ability to write it up. I will watch this stage of life/culture play out gladly and expect a great deal of entertainment from it.

    I think most women in the USA go through some kind of psychosis starting at about age 37. By the time they are 45 their brains are in a full psychotic meltdown. I think it has to do with the undeniable fact of ‘first wave’ aging. It’s the first bit of adversity in their life that they can’t blame on men or simply add to their pleasure giving stash of martyrdom. If they’re married they can just rage at their husbands for some relief but that’s only a temporary fix. Aging simply sucks for everyone and trying to thatch it on to feminist righteousness and the thrills of victimhood just doesn’t work. It just can’t fit this time no matter what. No one wants to age and no one feels good about it yet feminism promised them that they get to feel however they want to feel in any situation regardless of anything, especially regardless of facts, logic and reality. Well, not this time. Feminism’s extraordinary BS finally met its match; Father Time. The American female mind has NEVER had to deal with true cognitive discomfort, ever, and it blows apart over aging, like someone stuck a cherry bomb inside their ear. I have seen some incredible meltdowns first hand. I don’t mean explosive, momentary tantrums. I mean years long disintegrations into a state of psychosis from previously normal, intelligent women. There will be A LOT of it. As the 36 year old Pi Phi superstars of yore cannot get the 150K a year beta at the snap of their fingers, then you will see this psychosis turned up to 11. I will be observing it via the internet from Asia thank you very much.

  69. @ Kate – Tell me, what on earth makes you think that you have the standing to tell me – or anyone – what to do or not do on this thread? Notice that the men here haven’t done so, yet you weigh in.

    In case you forgot, the last thing I come here for is to listen to women about anything. One wonders about the pathology at work with you and Minter, lol. I get it, neither of you have any dignity or self-respect, but really, anyone with a shred of common sense would just have faded from view. Hint: You and he are a punch line to a bad joke in this community. Yet you think you can tell others how to behave.

    Go suck a bowl of …

    1. @Kate – While I cannot personally endorse Glenn’s language, his position is rock solid.

      You are a guest here and any attempts to play Mother Hen can only serve as an example to prove the rule. You would be well advised to knock it off.

  70. @ Softek – I want you to digest one simple idea. “Learning implies a permanent change in behavior”. What has actually changed in you since encountering the Red Pill world? For me, the entire world looks different. Just yesterday I was with three of my sisters and my ex-step mom, watching the female imperative at work in my family system and out in public. The owner of the country winery we had brunch at, a man of 61, kept calling my ex-stepmother’s current husband ‘old man’ and ‘grandpa’ for some reason (he’s 79), he thought it was funny in that obnoxious way New Englanders will do sometimes.

    Imagine he had called the ex-step mom ‘old lady’ or ‘granny’? Never. This and many other things unfold in front of me all the time and outrage me. I behave differently these days though, indeed. I stand up for men and I derailed this little shithead’s “wedging” of Dick (the ex step mom’s husband), which is putting another man down to up your status, a typical beta, zero-sum game view of life (an abundance mindset would have a man never act in this petty way). One of the major things that has shifted for me is that I see myself as an ally of other men, and I’m tuned into their suffering and the onslaught of denigration that we as men are just handed every day. That’s why I reached out to you here. It would have been much easier to just not do so. And yes – you are being a hopeless pussy – no matter what you say. Get a grip on your emotions, they are running the show here, not your wise self. Here’s a little mental exercise for you. Close your eyes and just tune into your breathing, and breathe just through your nose. When thoughts come up, release them and return to your breath. Imagine that you are a teacup and all the jabber running around in your head is the tea in the cup. Have emotions, don’t be emotions. If you really struggle with this, try the Sedona Release Method to develop the muscle of owning and releasing the attachment you so obviously have to your emotional state. Hint: This is piece of gold for you, something that could change your life – are you actually listening? You could read 100 articles on Return of Kings and not get as much benefit as trying this exercise out – I guarantee it. Will you actually listen and try something that will help? Or are you so transfixed by your own addiction to your victim narrative that this just bounces off of you?

    Men are able to control their emotions and relax with them and choose to follow their impulses or not if they try. Women are riven by their emotions. For me, it’s a result of forming the habit of governing oneself with reason, and of developing and having mental discipline that men can and do develop if they try. Fyi, I wasn’t comparing my childhood suffering to yours to one up you – I don’t play that game and I am no victim, I was just trying to let you know that one can be subject to horrible abuse and still not have it define them. Your psychological wounds seem to define you – that’s a choice you make whether you recognize it or not. Choose better – who you are being is not impressive nor getting you anywhere worth going. Can you not see that?

    Most important change? Women are no longer as important to me. I am not qualifying with them non-stop anymore. I was with a young woman recently who really made me work to get her in the sack – fair enough – but the second after I fucked her, it was as though she didn’t even exist. Within 10 minutes I was back at my desk in the hotel we were in, working on an important client project. Funny, in the past I would have laid around and cuddled or felt like I should be attentive – but I actually just didn’t give a shit. Surprisingly, she didn’t care either and just laid there fiddling with her phone as she does endlessly while I dove back into my work. Young, tight and hot fyi, Softie. A woman you would die to get your dick inside of. A blonde “spinner”. Thanks Rollo…

    Yet another young one fucked by maintaining the “amused mastery” frame. In a way, getting laid for me is easier than ever because most women I’m interested in simply don’t click with an older guy like me – but I don’t feel rejected by that, it’s just data and I move on without even noticing anymore. But those younger women who do find me attractive, well they make it clear, and I simply then use game. In particular, seeing the shit tests for what they are – tests of status and suitability – just made the whole thing easier. In particular, with an older guy, there is little pretense. You don’t friend-zone a guy twice your age – the context is settled. The funny thing though is that you have to be covert/indirect with the younger women. While the 47 year old I dated the other night would have fucked me in the men’s room of the bar where we met had I just said “Hey, do you want to fuck?”, one can never be this direct with a young woman. So you say things like “hang out” or invite her to my house. Or with this one, I just invited her to a hotel without ever discussing having sex. She lives with roommates and my place was over an hour a way and I knew this would work. In theory she was coming by to have a glass of wine before we went out,and I had the room because I didn’t want to drive home, lol (I don’t drink alcohol and she knows this bud didn’t mention it when I offered this up as a rationale, gigglng). I’m always amazed by how a certain kind of girl needs to lie to herself about what she wants – but hey, another impact of game and seeing the world through Rollo’s lens is that I get what women are up to and I’m just not that impressed. Often their motivations are cheap, selfish, shallow and absurd. It’s weird, I’m more game aware and intentional in my behaviors but am much less ego-invested in the outcomes. In other words, it’s no longer a game about proving my worth to the world or myself, it’s just about fucking the current object of desire in my view. Shorthand for game that works most of the time? Treat women like children.

    Fyi, some might be tempted to see both of us as similar in that we both went back to our digital devices shortly after sex, but that would miss that she’s just texting inane nonsense to other idiots while I was working on project that is part of launching a cloud company, a project on which I consult at a high hourly rate. I’m involved in substance in the world, I’m engaged with that which is important to me. Getting laid was important, and yes, the sweet, sexy energy of a woman is fun too. I do enjoy many aspects of women, but it’s all based on me getting what I want now. The second it isn’t working for me, I”m out. Without regret or even a second thought.

    I also think, based on what you wrote here, that you may have actual psychological issues and I hope you are in therapy. Seriously, the phobia about bathrooms, the fetishization of your dysfunctionality and fascination with it and other comments you have made make me think that you could benefit from the professional treatment and I hope you seek it.

    Whatever you do, focus inwards rather than outwards. On you and your behavior instead of writing about it on stupid blog sites. On you rather than me. It may also be that your Red Pill journey relies too much on “game” and as a result you don’t understand some of the broader issues at work here. You might try out gynocentrism.com or even A Voice For Men if you haven’t as I think men do need to get the broader sociological consequences of feminism and gynocentrism than one will get at say Return of Kings. Intersexual dynamics are an important driver of what’s destroying masculinity in our society, and it is a feedback but in the end it’s only part of a larger sociological consequence. This isn’t good news, but for me, seeing the big picture makes me relax about the personal experience. I’m not trying to fix the world, I’m not out for “justice” or to build some new relationship paradigm – I just want what I want out of life. Get selfish, stop whining and actually learn something. Fyi, you went to that party and didn’t even approach – I’d laugh at a 14 year old boy for acting that way. But the truth is – at your very center, Softie – is that you don’t think you are worth fucking. Until you deal with that, you are nowhere. You can post 1000 comments here and you will change one iota. Are you a catch? Would you fuck you if you were the women you wanted to fuck? You never answered those questions, but they were the most important of anything said here.

  71. @ Kate – You should know better than to try and fuck with a real man. Stick with that loser Minter, as my guess is that like most modern man you can’t ever subject yourself to a man’s dominance so you instead settle for someone you know is more broken than you. I mean as a pot head and failure in his career who abandoned his children (according to his ex), and as a loudmouth who’s only achievement in life was to puff himself up in an online community via lies and bullshit, he’s a real catch, lol. Sometimes ‘social proof’ brings down your standing, Kate. Your public actions make you a joke. Funny, why does this even need to be explained to you?

    You see, in the real world where real things happen, reputation matters. You have a reputation now. You’ve made your bed – lie in it. It’s a bed where you and he are a joke.

    I don’t interfere in other’s interactions here, like you do, Kate. If I have something to say to someone I go directly at them and say what I have to say, no mediation required – and if it is needed, Rollo will weigh in. But you know what the best thing about embracing actual game is (hint, actual game has little to do with posting on the internet)? I get to really see women for who they really are and how they behave. Most women are very unskilled in wielding power, and instead often squander it cheaply on cheap shots, or don’t use it all. Watching a woman such as yourself trying to project power and gravitas here is like watching a monkey play with a laptop. Eventually a few lights might come on it may start beeping, but really, that’s about it.

    Keep it up though, it’s an important demonstration for the men here to see how FI and gynocentric thinking press through no matter what. Even in an environment where it’s laid bare for all to see, you persist. Giggling, really, it’s too rich.

    Okay, I’m on to real work in the real world in my real life. I hope everyone has a great week. Great post Rollo, simply superb.

  72. @kfg: Ah, I get you. Alright, I promise to no longer attempt to help give men a safe place to become better men without being attacked by men.

    😉

    1. @Kate – Actions speak louder than words. I’ll believe it when I see; and only for so long as I continue to see it.

  73. Bye, Glenn. Have a nice day. For someone who purports to have taken the red pill, you sure were pretty easily convinced by some bad journalism…

  74. @kfg: That’s very true, but the fact that you don’t see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

  75. @Glenn, re: “In a way, getting laid for me is easier than ever because most women I’m interested in simply don’t click with an older guy like me – but I don’t feel rejected by that, it’s just data and I move on without even noticing anymore. But those younger women who do find me attractive, well they make it clear, and I simply then use game.”

    I’m agreeing and amplifying for lurkers who would want to think incorrectly. Glenn isn’t talking about gold-diggers wanting to scam beta bux out of the befuddled old dude. Glenn is saying that since he doesn’t care any more, then it is easier for his automated slut scan to pass over uninterested females, making it easier for his guided missiles of sexual attention to lock in on IOIs *even* if those IOIs are (slightly) less numerous than they would have been if he had been Gaming when younger.

  76. Softek mate, surefire cure for bathroom paralysis.
    Involves actually leaving your room, I’m afraid.

    * go to pub (a proper one, no stupid tables and menus and coffeemachines, just a brass footrail and the beer engines)

    * choose a day like today while the World Cup is on (and you guys are still in (till Thursday at least) so the bogs will be awash at halftime (again, proper pubs have at most one cubicle with a door; if you choose carefully you might get one with those glorious tiled hundred-year-old part-stalls over the gutter; admire the craftsmanship)

    * pick a team, any team

    * neck six pints of Guinness (minimum) in short order; same for the 2nd half

    You’ll thank me for this, I guarantee.

  77. Ray said:

    “It’s funny that all the Science Fiction writing geniuses overlooked the point you found so patent and obvious — that modern maleness in an artifice imposed upon boys and men for the selfish purposes of females collectively, and for the selfish purposes of a subset of collaborative men. The construction of un-men is the greatest Horror of the past century, and yet it is completely ignored, or worse, by almost everyone.”

    Actually Isaac Asimov’s Robot series (not iRobot) goes into this. There is a former human colony planet where all the men have been beatified completely and all masculinity has died a long time ago and replaced with practicality and serving for the betterment of society. Sexuality has almost been removed from the culture. Main character goes there and sexes one of the inhabitants (despite the main character having a wife!) and also teaches another schlub man on that planet how to be a sexual man.

  78. Not to make any Beta even more depressed, but I read this today and couldn’t help but see how the Sandberg ‘open hypergamy’ model is only going to aggravate more and more unplugged / red pill aware Betas:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/carolyn-hax/2014/04/18/898e82ce-b9bb-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html

    Think about how disenfranchised that dutiful Beta is going to be when he is flat out told that he’ll never be getting the ‘sexual best’ he believed his wife would have for him.

    Compare the open hypergamy model with the guy from Saving the Best:
    http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/

      1. Whatever. Now you’re just being rude. I don’t have time for that. Anyway, my job is done, I see. Men can always be counted on to join together against the enemy 😉

  79. Thank you Rollo for reposting. Priceless article. If a girl does not look forward to stretching her prior sexual comfort zone with you…..she does not like you that much.

  80. @ Glenn

    The Sedona Method has been compared to Faster EFT. The methodology is similar, and I highly recommend both of them. As I mentioned before, “Monsters and Magical Sticks: There’s no Such Thing as Hypnosis?” is a great read and complements both methods really well as far as background knowledge and belief systems goes.

    Anyway, what you just wrote about reminds me of a zen koan that’s making a lot more sense to me now:

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    A Mother’s Advice

    Jiun, a Shingon master, was a well-known Sanskrit scholar of the Tokugawa era. When he was young he used to deliver lectures to his brother students.

    His mother heard about this and wrote him a letter:

    “Son, I do not think you became a devotee of the Buddha because you desired to turn into a walking dictionary for others. There is no end to information and commentation, glory and honor. I wish you would stop this lecture business. Shut yourself up in a little temple in a remote part of the mountain. Devote your time to meditation and in this way attain true realization.”

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    You’re right. I’m wasting my time here by commenting and trying to make all these points, instead of actually applying them in my life. I’m talking a lot about how I understand all these things you’re saying — if I really understood them, why am I still writing here trying to prove that I understand them instead of improving myself, changing myself, and getting what I want?

    I was just wondering last night why I was even getting into all of this here. Why am I commenting here?

    My life script is that I’m inferior, that I’m a loser, that nobody would want to be with me. And you’re right that that’s the main problem. And it isn’t going to change unless I change it myself.

    Robert Smith mentioned in one of his Faster EFT videos, when we find something that’s bothering us, and we say “I don’t want to go there,” what we’re really saying is “I don’t want to let it go. I want to keep this.”

    My feelings of inferiority and not deserving and all of that is that place I don’t want to go, because it’s stirring up my belief that I’m not worth fucking. I think I’ve been avoiding facing the fact that I really believe that, because when I say that, I feel like trash. Who would want to admit that they believe they’re not worth fucking?

    But by avoiding it, by running away from admitting it, I’m saying “I want to keep this.” And you’re right — I’m attaching to that belief that I’m not worth fucking, I keep replaying it and affirming it in my mind in all kinds of ways, and I’m probably not even aware of the majority of them.

    I am in therapy and have been for a very long time. I actually was thinking of taking a medical leave of absence from work so I could attend an intensive outpatient Dialectical Behavioral Therapy program at a nearby hospital because I’ve been cutting myself again and have almost committed suicide several times over the past couple months. I think it was developed for people with Borderline Personality Disorder. I’ve spent a lot of time inpatient and outpatient at mental hospitals and DBT is one of the things recommended for me and they told me they were going to put me in a class for it, but they never did.

    It goes way beyond not believing I’m worth fucking, though. I’m extremely talented and have worked very hard to develop the skills I’ve developed, but I use the same script there too. Do I really believe I’m talented? No. The script is that I suck and am a failure.

    I am fully capable of going out and playing gigs and making good money, teaching guitar lessons, and doing top-notch repairs and some custom building and restoration work. I learned from the best and for my age I’m way, way ahead of the game, and my mentor’s told me that if I keep it up I could be better than him and go on to do some really amazing work.

    I pushed myself and made business cards but haven’t gone out to where people play music. I could play a gig with one of the guitars I built and I’m sure someone would ask about it, because it looks really unique, it sounds amazing, and I shaped and finished the neck to a really unique and comfortable profile, redid the entire fingerboard and put new frets in, and it plays like a dream. I would put it toe to toe with any other guitar as far as the setup, playability and sound goes. It’s really a nice piece of work and I’m proud of it.

    So here I am, having all these skills, and even good looks and everything else I’d think I’d need to “qualify” for sex, or for having my own business, or whatever. But I’m not doing anything about it because deep down I think I’m a loser.

    I’ve worked hard to develop myself, but I still care more about proving that I’ve developed myself than actually reaping the benefits for myself — going out and having great sex with whatever girls I want, making lots of money for myself doing something I love doing, etc.

    My mentor is actually a great example to follow. He’s worked for himself for years, he’s in his mid 60’s and says that one of the reasons he thinks he has no health problems is because he’s always done what he wanted to do.

    He was married for 18 years and had two kids with his ex-wife. She divorced him out of the blue (she was making about twice as much as he was and got resentful but never said anything about it, and then one day the papers came in). After the divorce (he got a really good lawyer and actually ended up getting everything SHE wanted — he kept the house, got custody of the kids, didn’t have to pay any alimony), he just went back to one night stands to break up the routine once in a while, while he works for himself out of his house, and he still goes out and plays gigs once in a while with the band he’s been in since the late ’60s, which was also one of the most popular local bands back in the day.

    Thanks for the advice. I’ve got a lot of thinking and acting to do. This might be goodbye — I have to face my biggest fear, which is taking responsibility for my life all by myself. I really wish I had an in-person mentor for this stuff to help me along, like I have a mentor for my guitar stuff. Reading this stuff online is helpful but…well, whatever. Stop complaining and make the best of the resources you have available. A lot of guys here had nothing even close to RM — there was literally nothing. Just like with guitars…I’ve learned so fast and at such a young age because they have so many more tools available now, so much information freely available that just wasn’t there back in the day.

    I still go back right into blue pill thinking and while I wouldn’t want to necessarily be slapped in the face (although maybe that would do the trick), it would help to have a friend in-person who could tell me to snap out of it. Therapy can help but there are no red-pill therapists that I’m aware of. I’m not sure how much someone can help another person when they’re fully immersed in the blue-pill perception of fem-centric relationship dynamics, and possibly just end up reinforcing the problem mentality that I’m trying to get rid of.

    So that’s one thing that kind of stresses me out with therapy and I’m not quite sure how to navigate around that one and still have therapy be an overall positive and helpful experience.

    Anyway, thanks. And I appreciate you not pulling any punches. I was really pissed off over the past couple days but right now I can appreciate that this is all something I needed to hear, mostly because I didn’t want to hear it.

  81. @Rollo, for various reason aj is blocked for me but here is the paper.
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/06/17/peds.2013-4182.abstract

    The current official guidance from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American College of Medical Genetics is to tell patients about the issue of nonpaternity but to not to disclose nonpaternity if found. They now want that to be strengthened, so that the official guidance to all American medical personnel involved will be *mandatory* nondisclosure if nonpaternity is found.

  82. Non-disclosure of non-paternity? Mandatory?

    That would seem to be ripe making a 14th Amendment case. After All compelling, at threat of violence,or loss of liberty, child support from a non-adoptive, non-biological father would be no different than taking a man from his home and forcing him to work at labor, uncompensated.

    And what then would stop the courts from simply assigning direct financial responsibility to any random man? Before you it won’t happen look where we are with gay marriage versus 30 years ago.

  83. I used to live a few minutes walk from John “Logarithms” Napier’s house.

    The old boy had a bit of a rep locally as a near-warlock, due to his nerdskillz, which he did not strive to dispel.
    One time the silver from the dinner service went walkabout, and the help were in the frame.

    What to do? Put them to the Extraordinary Question? Fire the lot? (there were a lot, and servants were hard to engage, especially if they were crapping themselves with superstitious fear at the interview (no washing machines or drycleaners in them days). Our John was a cool, reflective and humane sort of a Renaissance chap. Of course not, how barbaric, they all had dependants of one sort or another.

    So one by one, the trembling hirelings were led into a blacked-out chamber high in the tower, and by a feeble candle’s distant light, instructed to approach the haughty sable cockerel on a perch in the center of the chilly stone vault.

    “Thon (that over there) fowl hath a rare gift, mannie/lass” quoth Jock the Magus sat at the wall “he’s o’ the deil’s ain (devil’s own) flock. Gin (if) ye wad lee (would lie) at him, he’ll let me ken! (know). Now, lay your richt haund (right hand) upon him, and quit the chalmer (room), that is all.”

    After they’d all been processed, they were mustered in the yard and an inspection of hand hygiene was undertaken. “O fie, Meg (Beth, Jennet, Tam (a remote ancestor) Habbie, Dick), did ye not wash the day? See how your nieve (fist, palm) is clarted (filthy) and ye will dress my meat?
    O, but what is this? Gibbie here hath hands as pure as Our Saviour’s shroud!
    Good man, Gilbert! Hie thee to my offices that I might reward ye!”

    And Gilbert was seized there, the silver retrieved from the fence he’d flogged it off to, and the villain kicked to the kerb.
    Scared to touch the Psychic Chicken, just in case it grassed him up.

    M’lord had doused the creature in lampblack or ink-galls or some such concoction. I think he cobbed the wheeze from some French metaphysician he’d read about.

    Fast forward four centuries>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Legal or not, if she refuses the cheekswab for the brat … (Hey it’s only FTDNA, for the Gedcom, see? Need to get the autosomal or your family will be underrepresented in this here genealogy I’m building (and the 100-plus Y-STRs, and the mtDNA, well that’s just other stuff that bundles with the biggest-bang-for-buck package, dearest).

    There’s your smoking gun.
    You’ll know, she’ll know you know, etc.
    Cock-a-doodle-doo!

  84. Mandatory nondisclosure of nonpaternity? Sickening. How about collecting some of the newborn’s drool and sending it off by yourself? Let’s say you find out you’re not the dad before the kid is 6 months old… you haven’t had the time to bond yet, how can they hold you to anything???

    http://www.canadiancrc.com/newspaper_articles/Globe_and_Mail_Moms_Little_secret_14DEC02.aspx

    “Based on a 500-year-old common law, most states operate on the presumption that a husband is the father of any child born to his wife during a marriage.”

    How many centuries-old laws have been scrapped at the behest of feminism? Why can’t we do that with this one too?

    Choice quote:

    “If you have acted in a fatherlike way toward a child, then you are the father,.. fatherhood is a social reality, not a genetic reality.”

  85. Yeah if I were the guy in the Washington Post article, I would nope the fuck out of that situation too.

    This is a lot like the one a while back with the guy who discovered his wife’s sex tapes.

    The irony is, let’s say the guy just lets her unload all her slut-shame on him (and she must be ashamed of it on some level, otherwise why won’t she do the same stuff with him?), let’s say he’s the perfect supportive boyfriend she thinks she wants…

    1000% guaranteed she’ll start to see him as a doormat and dump his ass. She’ll go right back to the same behavior with some other guy, and it’s a coin toss whether she actually waits to dump him first or there’s an overlap.

    Dualistic strategy exposed.

    Lots of talk about how guys have a Madonna/Whore dynamic, not enough about how women appear to have this whirring away internally.

    She’s fine being a sex object (Whore) when it’s for fun (i.e. attention and validation of her sexual power)… but then when she finds a guy (mark) she REALLY LIKES (i.e. has resources and treats her decently), oooohh, all of a sudden she’s on her best behavior (Madonna)… and she “wouldn’t want him to see her that way”…

    Ahhh I see, ONCE YOU HAVE HIM HOOKED, and yet you aren’t quite peachy comfy enough living with yourself Goldilocks, you just have to tell him AAAAALL about it, and make him IMAGINE it, right, cause you believe in OPENNESS right?

    And he’s a horrible guy for not being OK it?

    Pure selfish cruelty.

    nope nope nope nope nope nope nope byyyyyye

  86. @D-Man, we need a clip of some characters shaking their heads and saying “nope nope nope nope nope nope nope”, instead of “yip yip yip” like this

Speak your mind

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