Controlling Interests

controlling

I realize I dropped this quote last week, but it provides us with a unique illustration of the prevailing feminine psychology that’s been evolving since the sexual revolution.

“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead

In last week’s post I made note that Sheryl Sandberg was blissfully ignorant of her blatant admission of feminine hypergamy, but I felt her ‘advice’ to women here represented so much more than just a display of her solipsistic ignorance.

For as long as I’ve butted heads with many obstinate deniers of hypergamy’s influences, on women personally and society on whole, I’m not sure I’ve read a more damning indictment of hypergamy from a more influential woman. Sandberg’s advice to the next generation of women essentially puts the lie to, and exposes the uncomfortable truth about, women’s efforts deny the fundamental dynamic of female sexual strategy – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks.

Even if you want to argue the evolutionary (psychology) and biological origins of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy, the fact is now socially evident; women have come to a point where they’re comfortable in openly admitting the truth that Red Pill awareness has been drawing attention to for over a decade now.

Courtesy of Sheryl Sandberg, the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks basis of women’s sexual pluralism is now publicly recognized. It’s kind of ironic considering that what the manosphere has been trying to make men aware of for years is now being co-opted, embraced and owned as if women had always practiced an open sexual pluralism – incredulous to any man’s shock over it.

However, the truth is that a feminine-centric social order can no longer hide the increasingly obvious fallout and consequences of a society restructured to accommodate women as the predominant sexual interest.

Last week I speculated that Sandberg was ignorant of the feminine-primary implications that her statements draw attention to – and I’m still of the opinion that an innate feminine solipsism motivates more and more women to this admission – but it’s impossible to ignore the new degree of comfort in which women feel in laying bare their dualistic sexual strategy.

To some significant extent the Feminine Imperative no longer needs to keep the ‘Good Genes’ / ‘Good Dad’ dichotomy ugliness a secret from men.

In last week’s post I mentioned that a new ambient sense of an assured long-term security in the feminine mind was predisposing women to prioritize the ‘Best Genes’ (Alpha Fucks) side of feminine hypergamy. Sandberg’s ‘advice’ is a vital confirmation of this, however, she tacitly acknowledges a window of  opportunity during which women possess a better capacity to pursue this side of hypergamy:

The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner.

In these two sentences Sheryl (and by extensions the Feminine Imperative) essentially confirms women’s pluralistic sexual strategy, my (now infamous) sexual market value graph depicting women’s peak SMV and decay, and the first half of the time line of women’s phases of maturity I laid forth in the first two installments of the Preventative Medicine series.

Selling the Beta

With regards to men, I believe the most salient part of Sandberg’s admission is found at the end:

These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.

For the better half of the time since the sexual revolution it was necessary for the Feminine Imperative to convince a majority of men that their eventual Beta providership for women was not only their duty, but also a prime aspect of feminine attraction. As I mentioned last week, under the (pre-sexual revolution) old-order attraction model this may have been the case to a large degree. However after the revolution, and as women’s hypergamy prioritized towards ‘Good Genes’ short-term sexual partners, the ‘Good Dad’ (Beta Bucks) men needed an ever increasing ‘sell’ of their own attractiveness by women.

This persistent sell was a necessary element of ensuring a future long-term security for women while pursuing increasingly more short-term breeding opportunities as feminine-primacy expanded into society. The future ‘Good Dads’ would need to be patiently waiting out women’s “indiscretion years” during their SMV peak, so the sell became an ever-evolving definition of what women found attractive in men based on that old-order model of dependability, patience, industriousness, and every other characteristic that defined a good provider.

Quoted from Why Muscularity is Sexy:

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

From a woman’s perspective, the ideal is to attract a partner who confers both long-term investment benefits and genetic benefits. Not all women, however, will be able to attract long-term investing mates who also display heritable fitness cues. Consequently, women face trade-offs in choosing mates because they may be forced to choose between males displaying fitness indicators or those who will assist in offspring care and be good long-term mates (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000). The most straightforward prediction that follows is that women seeking short-term mates, when the man’s only contribution to offspring is genetic, should prefer muscularity more than women seeking long-term mates.

Strategic pluralism theory is a pretty good definition of feminine hypergamy, but what this theory hadn’t yet accounted for (at the time it was published) was the necessitousness of women with regards to short-term mating strategies and long-term parental investment opportunities over the course of the various phases of maturity as they aged.

The Beta investment sell was necessary because it ensured male parental investment at a later (usually just-pre-Wall) time in a woman’s life. Thus, Sandberg’s praise of men “who think women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. [Men] who value fairness and expect or, even better, want to do his share in the home” will eventually be sexier than the Alpha “bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys” she encourages women to fuck earlier in life is an excellent example of this sell.

Ironically it’s exactly with this sell that women encourage the very transactional nature of sexual relations with men they’re screeching about recently. It’s the Choreplay fallacy on a meta scale – do more around the house, play into the equalitarian schema women think they need in a provider, support her ambitiousness and opinionatedness and you’ll be considered “sexier” and get her Best Sex she’s been saving just for a guy like this.

Building the Beta

The problem the Feminine Imperative runs into with selling the Beta is that as women’s “independence” expands this sell becomes less necessary and less effective. Less necessary because women’s personal, social and legal long-term security insurances have become almost entirely disconnected from men’s direct (not indirect) provisioning. Less effective because men have become increasingly aware of their disenfranchisement of the old-order provisioning model as being something they might equitably be rewarded for.

As the consequences and repercussions of women’s hypergamous priority shift to Alpha Fucks become more evident and real for men; and as their capacity and comfort with connecting and relating these experiences with other men becomes more widespread, the less effective the sell is for Beta men awaiting their turn to enter into a pre or post Wall monogamy with the women attempting the sell.

Throughout the 70’s, 80’s and most of the 90’s, the sell was effective because men were isolated socially and technologically from each other’s relative experiences. From the late 90’s onward that isolation has diminished while the societal results of feminine-primacy have become more glaringly, and painfully, evident to men.

In its ever-reinventive fluidity, the Feminine Imperative found it necessary to transition from selling men on being later and later life long-term providers for women into building a generation of men who would expect of themselves to fulfill that role when the time came. These men would be raised and conditioned to be the patient Beta providers women would need once they had followed the Sandberg model of hypergamy.

These would be the boys / men who would be taught to “naturally” defer to the authority of women under the auspices of a desire to be an equal partner.

These are the men raised privately and created socially to be ready for women, “when it comes time to settle down, and find someone who wants an equal partner.”

These would be the men ready to expect and accept a woman’s proactive cuckoldry of him in the name of being a pro-feminine equal.

These are the men raised to accept an open form of hypergamy in place of the selling to an old-order Beta provisioning model.

The Hypergamy Schism

The problem this creates for women becomes one of dealing with the men they need to sell a secretive hypergamy to and the men they build to accept an open form of hypergamy to. The increasing comfort with an open admission of hypergamy is relative to a woman’s capacity to get away with it.

A woman like Sheryl Sandberg has the means to decisively ensure her future independence and long-term security (at least in the financial sense) whether she’s married or not. She could very well return to the Bad Boys she found so arousing and advises women ‘date’ and never rely on a man’s direct provisioning. As such she’s very comfortable in publicly revealing the ins and outs of post-sexual revolution hypergamy without so much as an afterthought.

While she publicly affirms the build model of Beta provisioning (under the guise of equalism) and expects “those guys will be awaiting you” this doesn’t hold true for a majority of women. Women with affluence enough, or a physical attractiveness sufficient to virtually ensure their future provisioning are much more comfortable with the build a better Beta model than women who find themselves more lacking in this assurance.

The more necessitous a woman finds herself in the sexual marketplace, the more likely she is to deny the mechanics of her own hypergamy.

A woman less confident in consolidating on her future long-term security (and / or cooperative parental investment) has a much more personal investment in keeping the truths of hypergamy a secret from men. As such, these women will be more predisposed to misdirecting the men becoming more aware of this truth and relying more on the selling model of Beta provisioning.

Needless to say this split between women comfortable in open hypergamy and women reliant upon secretive hypergamy is a point of conflict between the have’s and have not women in the sexual marketplace. The more men become aware of women’s hypergamy and strategic sexual pluralism, through women’s open embrace of it or the manosphere, the more pressure the ‘have not’ women will feel to also embrace that openness.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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M3
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@Rollo of course he would. Females have built in cover (by virtue of being female) to self criticize their own gender – they risk being called self loathing women, internalized misogynists or labia traitors.. but it still gives credence to the critique coming from a woman amongst the ‘normies’. For a man to verbalize or publish the exact same observations, he would be drawn / quartered / vivisected / burned in effigy as a woman hating misogynist this side of Hitler. Why? Because Penis. The public at large can hand wave away mens observations coming from the mouths of men… Read more »

jacklabear
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I have heard the outrage of formerly ignored betas becoming deemed worthy of slavery by post wall carousel riders. “… it won’t be with the bad boy, because he had the good sense to hit it, quit it and get the hell outta there. No provisioning duties for him. While we all joke about sloppy seconds and “sleeping in the wet spot”, this is EXACTLY what the dominant man avoids, and the submissive man accepts as his due, and considers himself lucky to get.” The irony here is that these dominant bad boys have made a career of passing around… Read more »

Steve H
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Jack – sexual variety is its own reward. So what if we are lucky number 132, we get to enjoy a voraciously sexual blonde slut for a night and then we’ll fuck another brunette slut a couple nights from now, and a redhead slut next weekend, and a latina slut a couple weeks from now, etc etc. That’s assuming you’re doing the quintessential dominant bad boy thing you posit. Which is in and of itself a form of MGTOW. I co-sign Class-Punk’s comment. You could always go the LTR route if the chick is hot and young enough too. That’s… Read more »

Softek
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@ Glenn I don’t think this was your intention, but I have to laugh at a realization I had. My first reaction was “I’m not wallowing in my misery you fucking cunt, I’m facing it head on and pushing through it because I have the balls to take full responsibility for my own feelings and the intelligence to know how to address them, and having been born a month premature with serious health problems, molested by a family doctor, physically and emotionally abused by my parents and tormented and ostracized by other kids my age growing up all the way… Read more »

Jeremy
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@Rollo Tomassi & M3

Actually, women do eat their own. Esther Vilar was essentially cast out of the world of women for her writing. I was only told this, I can find no internet evidence of it’s veracity.

Glenn
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@ Johhnycomewhatever – I think you are misreading the signals. Many young women ride the older guy cock carousel in their partying days (one of the most fun aspects of this as that you both know it has no future at some level so it’s much less constrained and easy to deal with). Older men have higher SMV than young men due to social status, income and if they bother grooming themselves to be a bit stylish and are fit (important for an older man to project vitality which fitness does perfectly). Look at Rollo’s smv graphs, they layout how… Read more »

MikePhil
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@ Jacklabear Thanks for referencing my quote from my previous post, and I’d just like to offer some further clarification because I used the “wet spot” metaphor there; if there’s mis-communication there it’s on my end…. So, to your point; it’s not really about getting there first, or the sloppy seconds, or the sloppy 368ths. As Steve H illustrated better than I could, it’s really about that feeling of variety and the resultant life experience that you gain from it. Despite having converted to a redder mindset, part of me still really likes the thrill of meeting and pursuing a… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Softek – You are a strange dude, and you are welcome. Hmm, if I didn’t mean to shock you into seeing how ridiculous you were being, what did you think I was trying to do? And oh yeah, if you had managed to stop me from “slapping” you, you’d still be whining about what a tough life you’ve had and how well you’ve managed under the circumstances and blah, fucking blah blah blah. Mission accomplished and a thank you without the backhanded bullshit would have been more appreciated actually. Believe it or not, my time is valuable and I… Read more »

Steve H
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@Softek – I agree with the comment Glenn made at 9:22am (back on page 1). The truth is, all the redpill knowledge in the world ain’t worth jack-shit without inner work AND outer work. And to be honest, I don’t know one single guy who has his inner work handled in a vacuum from also doing the outer work. All the wisdom you have compiled here and all the unusually insightful self-awareness you have demonstrated in your comments here – they won’t be worth a flying fuck to you in your own life until you get out of your comfort… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Mike – Great line. Can you imagine fucking Cheryl Sandberg? First she’s telling you what to do and not, then she’s checking her iPhone when she thinks you aren’t looking, then she’s so uptight and sure that you can’t get her off like her dildo does, than she say’s don’t put it in my mouth, then she’s like, “you came already?” Yeah, I’d rather run my balls over a cheese grater, thanks.

Glenn
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@ Mike – I clicked before I finishes. What I meant to close with is “What Cheryl doesn’t realize is that in order to come I had to fantasize about another woman and came so quickly because I just wanted it over with.”

Jeremy
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@Jack & Steve As has been said, Women are the gatekeepers of sex, and men are the gatekeepers of commitment (and attention). If you can get sex from a woman for very little attention and no commitment, you come out ahead. That doesn’t mean society is better for it, but you are definitely coming out ahead. Men who end up the 133rd beta are getting a raw deal because they are forking out a lifelong commitment and attention-on-demand to someone who has already had 132 alphas in them. The offering of the female is not of zero worth, but the… Read more »

jf12
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Vox Day discussed this
http://crx.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/05/25/0093650214534972.abstract
but the stark findings are almost self explanatory. Women flirted a lot less, but when they did flirt it was easy to tell. Men flirted a lot more, but women claimed it was hard to tell.

IOW “I didn’t know he was interested” friendzoning is *probably* more due to the women pretending they didn’t notice his little expressions of interest and therefore his expressions of interest not becoming greater, rather than strictly due to the tentativeness of the men’s expressions of interest.

jf12
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@Rollo re: “only “damaged, immature women with serious issues”

I’ve been calling this fallacy No True Mature Adult.

Richard
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your article is great, but ultimately over academic….

a man has far more than just his genes to give to a child, thus the alpha – many mates strategy is relatively useless if his kids are brought up by some sucky beta cuckoo husband to be betas as well…. humans are not earthworms dependent only on genes but also on physical and social skills, a great deal of this comes from the father.

many aggressive alpha men also want children to carry on their lineage…..

Gurney Halleck
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The thing about MGTOW is that the movement (if you can call it such) seems to neglect the fact that the human mind needs and craves sexual companionship. Guys like Stardusk (pretty heady youtuber mgtow advocate) insist that sex is a complete waste of time and seems to think that by merely considering the matter as rationally as he does we can basically suppress our urges by understanding them as mere urges built into us by evolution to propagate the species and so on. Maybe I’m not doing the guy justice, but the problem here is that the human mind… Read more »

scratche2013
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@Gurney Halleck MGTOW isn’t strictly incels, I’m not incel and I consider myself a MGTOW. It is more about a practical attitude toward sex and “love”. I love sex but I will never get married or be in a LTR; it is a well thought out decision I have made (and it’s not because i’m “badass”, I know I can play alpha in the short-term but keeping a woman entertained indefinitely is not something I am capable of – I am an introvert and would rather stay in most of the time). Also, don’t feel you have to be incel;… Read more »

Alpha Mart
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I liked that you took this on Rollo. I really believe the idea that Betas will be waiting with open arms at the end of a chicks “wild times” is the greatest Feminist myth going.

strauMan (@strauMan)
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@boxsterpaul I’ve noticed men becoming the new “women” in that as women become more masculine men are being more objectified and pushed into a neo-caste role. Just observe advertising and the role of men in the media: agree and don’t rock the boat, incompetent, lack of leadership, men taking a larger role in household cleaning/cooking, etc. I see so many comparisons to women in the 50’s: “stop talking dear, no one wants your opinion”, the idea of women not capable of leading, women who are perceived useless outside the home. In the media and especially in film, women lead men… Read more »

Gurney Halleck
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@scratch2013 But what if the mgtow movement is significantly composed of incels/unattractive men who are too ashamed to be upfront about their status (lest they prove the feminist-esque taunt “you’re just bitter you don’t get laid” to be true)? This is always the elephant in the room in mgtow discussion and, to be honest, there was some refreshing honesty from the “PUAhate” people who developed the Looks, Money, and Status theory (basically men who don’t have those things lose out in the sexual marketplace.) Are MGTOWs just low LMS guys who can’t admit their status? What would be the appeal… Read more »

Softek
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@ Glenn I still feel like I have to prove myself. The way you wrote your comment pushed a lot of my buttons because a lot of what you said triggered me. You didn’t shock me into seeing how ridiculous my ONE-itis is. You triggered me, and then by realizing that you triggered me, now I can see that I need to break up the thought pattern of trying to prove myself, and that was a shock. When I read what you wrote I got really pissed off and defensive. Your intention didn’t matter because I reacted to what you… Read more »

Snowy
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To Softek; I hope you’ll find, as I have, that as you keep swallowing Red Pills and seeing the reality, your healing will in fact be taking place. Eventually, you’ll see that all these women you’ve been pedestalising all this time, are no more worthy of pedestalising than yourself, or anybody else. As much as you will continue to love women for being women (physically), you’ll see them for what they are, warts and all, and the pedestalising will melt away, and you’ll see their true value; which, as the manosphere states, cannot be known until AFTER they have been… Read more »

Steve H
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Softek – you will be fine. Just be your own advocate. Nobody else can do this for you. I’ll give one more point of advice on this – if by some chance you get into a hairy situation, just default to kindness and deference. If anything happens where anybody questions you or accosts you for some reason (highly unlikely, by the way) – just say ‘hey man, sorry about that. didn’t mean to intrude. my bad’. that’s it. There’s no magic bullet here. You can go out if you choose to, and you’ll survive just fine. I guarantee it. I’m… Read more »

Mac
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Jesus christ, Softek. You still havent McFucking killed your(beta)self. Even bluepillers can understand and see that. You’ve stated it yourself. Time to do it. Back on track here. Ive been lurking here for the last year and it has completely shed light on my own personal understanding of the whole playing field, so to speak. I originally started this descent 7 years ago literally from Googling how to kill my AFC oneitis. I mentally McFucking killed myself. Needless to say, rebuilding myself took some time. I was missing one vital piece of understanding to cement it and drive it home.… Read more »

Mac
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Mac
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Opps, massive typo.
All these forums and sites NEVER went into the real question of it (Game, PUA, FI,etc) all. Which was why all of this is.

Mark Minter
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“While she publicly affirms the build model of Beta provisioning (under the guise of equalism) and expects “those guys will be awaiting you” this doesn’t hold true for a majority of women.” I’m not so sure I can agree with this. I refer to the Dalrock post on 2013 “never marrieds” data. It was an adjunct to the “Never Marrieds Piling Up” post from 2012. http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/2013-never-married-data/ While you may see the “growth” in each “never married” category increasing, some with quite a lot of increase for the category, (i.e. 25-29 age groups increasing from 35.1% in 1999 to 48.2% in… Read more »

Thejewsdidthis
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“Sandberg”

What a surprise…..

D-Man
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@jacklabear and jf12, Not only are testosterone and its analogs controlled substances, but those pills women have been gobbling for 50 years now (and their metabolites) have made their way into our water and food supplies …add to this the ubiquity, bio-accumulation, and indeed bio-magnification of industrial xenoestrogens and other endocrine disruptors (like phthalates, synthetic musks, parabens, BPA, etc)…(AFAIK there are no widely used xenoandrogens); …tack on nature’s own estrogenic compounds, which are everywhere in food (while phytoandrogens are exceedingly rare and socially stigmatized), modern livestock being fed the wrong food leading to the wrong fatty acid profile in meat… Read more »

Softek
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@ D-Man Nutrition and lifestyle are of pivotal importance. And you’re absolutely right about all the estrogenic compounds virtually everywhere — our food, air, and water. Ray Peat (main field of research is hormones) has written extensively about the harmful effects of elevated estrogen and has a ton of free, excellent articles on his site for anyone who’s interested. He’s also written a lot about serotonin’s harmful effects. I’m reminded of being put on Lexapro, Zyprexa and Buspar from when I was around 12 years old to 18 or so. I’m convinced that these drugs were seriously harming me. I… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Softek – You sound like a woman. I did attack you, I did want to make you angry, I did want to activate some self awareness and shame for what a pussy you were being. You are the prototype blue piller and don’t realize it. And that’s the last time I ever waste a second trying to deal with your bullshit bud – enjoy your misery. Next time you are wallowing in your self-pity, just realize that it’s all self-imposed. At this point, knowing what you know, there is no need to be suffering. You are choosing it, you… Read more »

Gurney Halleck
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Mark Minter,

Epic and enlightening comment, as always.

Glenn
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Sadly a promising thread is being taken down MGTOW and other weird ratholes. I’m starting to believe that commenting on the web for many people is an end in itself, that it likely meets some inchoate but unmet need for exhibitionism such that it compels them to comment for the sake of it. Not for the actual edification of others in a conversation, but just to puff oneself up or establish cred. A word on MGTOW and Stardusk. Stardusk is not a scientist, yet he preaches (and that’s what he does) a pseudo-scientific melange of weak or debunked scientific ideas… Read more »

jf12
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@D-man, re: american life link. Interesting episode. The stroy with the transman Griffin is *exactly* like *every* female-to-male trans: with the male levels of testosterone they feel so much better and more alive and libidinous … and nobody cares. They get less help, less cooperation, life is harder, more is expected from them at work, nobody thinks they’re good looking; the way everyone in their life treats them as a man is a lot suckier than how they were treated as a woman. Uniformly, *every* transman’s experience.

Gurney Halleck
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Glenn, I never considered Stardusk as a scientist, more like a philisopher, but you outline some of the same issues I’ve had with him. He has interesting ideas that are somewhat on same wavelength as Rollo’s but there’s also a delusion about human nature there, that men can just completely neglect women and live happily without them. This is the problem with mgtow in general.

Tam the Bam
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D-Man: Griffin is 5’4″, so has been brought to realize that being “an aggressive bulldyke” is a serious Fail if the other guy doesn’t know you’re a woman. Ooops. But you’re on T, dearie, and a radical feminoid, so ought to be kicking Weak Reactionary Male Ass with ease … who knew? Maybe there’s a wee bit more to this “Man” thing than meets the eye? The old Saxons defined the prime quality of manhood surprisingly not as hardihood in the shieldwall or frozen to an oar, but as ‘possessing judgement’, as they knew women would be forever in hock… Read more »

Steve H
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“But in end, women will just admit it and say “Well, we should have access to alpha cock and also to beta bucks because we’re women with magic vaginas that create life.” They may not do it directly but it will come in the way of Health Care Reform, “education reform”, “income inequality reform”, all ways of shifting beta bucks away from male wallets and into purses. ” Fucking bingo, Mark. And this is why women absolutely seethe with incalculable rage when they encounter any financially successful non-Apex-Alpha who is childfree by choice and doesn’t want children. The whole ‘we… Read more »

Retrenched
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What’s interesting is that even though Sandberg is admitting to the AFBB pluralistic mating strategy, she is still pushing it in decidedly blue-pill language – she’s telling the betas who are spending their early to mid 20s in a sexual desert that they are somehow winning in the end by getting to wife up women who spent their prime years getting penetrated in every hole by alpha males. Even so, it’s kinda funny to hear a feminist icon like Sandberg, of all people, confirm the existence of the AFBB strategy and women’s preference for bad boys after the feminist media… Read more »

Exfernal
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Jacklebear:
What is the middle ground?

Between what? Spinning plates, serial monogamy and “pay to play”? Pick your poison.

D-Man
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@Softek, appreciate the suggestions, some very interesting stuff I’ve never heard of. Despite the fact that conditions are not good for proper development, and nobody appears to give a shit, it just reinforces to me the resolve that we’re each on our own, and it’s up to us to do what we want with what potential we have. It can be depressing to think about how far we all are from ideal, from a strictly physiological, biochemical standpoint, and how we appear to be collectively fucking so much up. Becoming aware of the many obstacles impeding our alignment can definitely… Read more »

Softek
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@ Glenn My dad tried to “kill the beta” in me when I was a kid. Sometimes literally. The details aren’t necessary. The point is it didn’t work. The first thing you’re probably thinking is “boo fucking hoo, get over it.” The end goal really is to get over it. I don’t disagree with that. I just believe that using NLP techniques to actually collapse the emotional anchors to the core problem is the most effective way to get over it. Then it’s really gone. It sounds like what you’re suggesting is to stuff the problems into a bag and… Read more »

heyjay
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“MGTOW is destructive to men.” It is so true! In my teens I was rather good with girls, mainly because I didn’t give a flying fuck about them. But then something changed. I started to care more for their interests, the pre-whipping kicked in and my successes vanished. In fact I got shot down so many times that I quit hitting on girls altogether. Of course I still got the attention of some mediocre ones but turned them down, I wasn’t desperate. Fast forward to today. I’m 28 and just recently stumbled across the sphere through PUA stuff on the… Read more »

D-Man
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@Tam and jf12,

Amazing how s/he described being overwhelmed by sexual thoughts, and how s/he looked at women in a vastly different way. This should be required listening for feminists who complain about the “male gaze” (when they’re not transparently complaining about the lack of it).

Lots of “you don’t understand what it’s like to have my hormones” coming from women, zero acknowledgement in reverse.

The kicker though was her/his newfound interest in science and rational thought!

MikePhil
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One last comment in response to Retrenched’s point. Yes, it’s really interesting how last month’s discussion of the AF-BB strategy as some chimera, right up there with the Flying Dutchman and UFOs, has now been verbalized in the media by Sandberg as sage, reasoned advice culled from a lifetime of female experience. And there’s not a peep from any media outlet going, “Uhh…wait a second…” I think the real takeaway is that it’s not so much what she said (hear me out), as where it was delivered from. Sheryl Sandberg is regarded as one of the top female Alphas with… Read more »

Will
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@rollo I need some quick advice on this cause I not feeling too hot about it all. Long story short I had a relationship with this young high smv girl for about 8 months but I remained “aloof, somewhat jerkboyish, and indifferent” most of the time. And she was confused with what I wanted pretty much 70% of the time…and so was I. Anyways now we’ve been radio silence for like a month (which isn’t uncommon). I texted her last night cause I just said to myself “I don’t care anymore this is exhausted”. It was a trial text no… Read more »

Alpha Beta
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Should Women be trusted with the future? Backstory: I have this female friend named Alice that is a bit wild. She is a single mom and despite her wild days AND her slutty behavior towards me. “I thought”, she was a woman who deserved respect. The reason for my belief in her was due to her boyfriend. Alice seemed to have settled down a bit and has moved in with the ultimate betaboy. Betaboy cooks, cleans and picks her mocha colored spawn up at school. All around a “dependable dude”. So dependable and upstanding I wondered how Alice ever bagged… Read more »

Tam the Bam
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“This joint is simply a fucking puzzlehouse, no joke. As I said to a buddy, if you look around, and you get the feeling that something’s off, and you’re not quite sure what it is, and you start to wondering if it might be you… it ain’t.” D-Man, that dragged up an old-ass hippy song from the Pit for me. Never knew a man Could tell so many lies He had a diff’rent story For ev’ry pair of eye-es How can he remember Who he’s talkin’ to? Cuz I know it ain’t me And I hope it ain’t you ..… Read more »

Steve H
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MikePhil – in light of 1) the ‘that’s easy for you to say, rich white COO of facebook woman!!’ (mindbogglingly phantom) response and 2) the ‘uhh…wait a minute’ that should logically follow from her directly contradicting their angry AFBB denials in the past several weeks – well, I would informed-ly speculate that the only reason MSM joints are not doing hit pieces on Sandberg is this:

Her shrill screeching which advocates men being in lockstep with serving the FI and female social primacy by default.

D-Man
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Ambulance Blues! Love the whole ditch trilogy

scratche2013
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“But what if the mgtow movement is significantly composed of incels/unattractive men who are too ashamed to be upfront about their status (lest they prove the feminist-esque taunt “you’re just bitter you don’t get laid” to be true)? This is always the elephant in the room in mgtow discussion and, to be honest, there was some refreshing honesty from the “PUAhate” people who developed the Looks, Money, and Status theory (basically men who don’t have those things lose out in the sexual marketplace.) Are MGTOWs just low LMS guys who can’t admit their status? What would be the appeal of… Read more »

George Meeks
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I’ve read your site periodically for several months. Your communication is organized, seems logical and well researched. Thank you for your effort. To gain additional perspective of your overall subject one could study history and ancient culture, especially Stone Age culture and reflect upon how the human sexual social dynamics therein compare to western developed society today. A specific example worth studying is the Comanche Indians who almost totally dominated the southern central United States for about 400 years until the late 19th century, only about 140 years ago. The Comanches are worth studying for several reasons. One important reason… Read more »

Liz
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Jf12: “@jacklabear, “The fact that testosterone was made a controlled substance is an ominous sign of what the culture is doing to destroy masculinity.” Awesome putting together the big picture. Female hormones, including but not limited to “natural hormone replacement” estrogenic compounds, can be obtained OTC all over. In addition, birth control pills are available OTC in most countries http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/world-women-pill-prescription-article-1.1231467 *except* for countries that emphasize female choice above all. In countries like the US, females are too afraid that males might slip them something.” Female hormones are handed out like candy by doctors, often to adolescent females. And that can… Read more »

Dat Hypergamy Tho
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I’m pretty cure some of you guys know about this but here’s to those that don’t: http://www.gofundme.com/aih9m8 His mother has already raised 2,700+ in one day. This is the power of good looks and bad boy temperament. Never mind the tear drop tattoo. I’m pretty sure the guy did murder someone because when he was asked about it, he refused to go further than saying, “it was all in the past.” Just look at the comments where these girls rationalize all of this away and claim that he’s a changed man. LOL! This is just too rich. Imagine all the… Read more »

New Yorker
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Here is a great example of a beta who married the first party girl who was ready to settle. Too bad this shlub does not understand some very basic things.

http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/06/19/dear-single-men-time-man-figure/

jf12
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@Liz, re: “Female hormones are handed out like candy by doctors, often to adolescent females. And that can really screw them up….they get fat and have a lot of psych issues. Since excess testoterone is converted to estrogen, too much of that isn’t a good thing either.” Yes. The sweet spot on the testosterone blood concentration / response curve is 700-1000 ng/dL, and everything above 1000 requires aromatase inhibitors. Among the funniest things you may not have quite known before is that ‘roid rage is … and put down your chamomile or you’ll spew … directly proportional to the *estrogen*… Read more »

jf12
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@DHT, yes, women coddle and protect alphas. It’s the first big clue that a teen boy will be an alpha adult: women fight his battles for him

LiveFearless
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@jf12 The level you are referring to does not separate the ‘free testosterone’ measurement. A person has to ask that ‘free testosterone’ and estrogen levels be checked. Increased estrogen level in men drastically increases the risk of strokes, high blood pressure and diabetes. Victor Pride and Mike from Danger & Play have written and spoken about this. wp.me/P3P5mL-tA

Pre-Retiree
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Meh. I wouldn’t read too much into Sandberg. The girls who ride the cock carousel and the guys who ride the pussy coaster usually end up marrying each other anyway. And they are a small percentage of the population. Most people just aren’t that promiscuous by nature. Most of us have a few girlfriends and boyfriends (maybe a live-in relationship) before we end up getting married. Serial monogamy. Its rare that someone with a number of 2 will end up marrying someone with a number of 200, of either sex.

Softek
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Well, went to the party. Only two girls there, one of their boyfriends was there, and I don’t know about the other one. I didn’t try anything. I had a great time. It really got me thinking that if I could have any lifestyle I wanted, it would be full of great friends and a lot of fun, pursuing my passions, and as far as women go, as long as I was getting sex on a regular basis, I think a relationship is the last thing I would want. Just by seeing those two girls there, and not wanting to… Read more »

eon
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eon
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Softek, “I have all this fear inside of me, I feel paralyzed, and the worst part is this: If I’m not going to do anything to change my fear, the sympathy won’t help. And people don’t want to hear about the fear if there’s nothing they can do about it to help. So all I feel like I can do is keep it bottled up inside, and I guess it boils over into writing comments like that on this blog, because I have nowhere else to go. “I really think I would be much more willing to express a fear… Read more »

Pre-Retiree
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Softek, you could hire a low end or high end prostitute depending on your affordability. Or you could just go on adultfriendfinder dot com, put in your zip code and find someone up for casual sex this very night. Picking up randoms in bars is also a possibility but that might be harder and you might need “game” so I’d just try adult friend finder first.

Liz
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jf12: “Among the funniest things you may not have quite known before is that ‘roid rage is … and put down your chamomile or you’ll spew … directly proportional to the *estrogen* concentration in steroid users’ blood.”

I hadn’t heard that, but it makes sense. I must’ve had ‘roid rage when I was on the pill. I’d be in a nuthouse today if I’d stayed on them.

equilibro
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OK guys, most of what’s said here has “losers” written all over it, so let’s look at the real picture instead. The key determinant in any male/female relationship is not Alpha or Beta, or Gamma or Delta, or any other psycho-babble for that matter, it’s unquestionably who can out-think whom. The IQ of the average man and average woman is 100 but the normal distribution (the bell curve) for men is much broader than for women, thus there are far more exceptionally clever men than exceptionally clever women but there are also far more exceptionally “dumb” men. Dumb people make… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Equilibro – Apparently you are not one of those blessed with a high iq though…because your supposedly earthshaking analysis that most of us losers here don’t get is fatuous, ignorant nonsense. The presence of intelligent Betas invalidates your theory. If it was merely a matter of intelligence, why would any man who is smarter than his mate be beta. Perhaps in the future you’d be better off leaving the thinking about big ideas to people who are actually intelligent?

heyjay
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@equilibro:
It’s definitely not intelligence. It is in fact smart guys who fail the most with women mainly because they overanalyze them. There is NOTHING to analyse, the riddle (women) can’t be solved, because it is not a riddle.
To put it short, the heart of these poor dudes isn’t in sync with their brain, they’re not “being themselves”.

Glenn
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@ softie – I so badly want to laugh at you for being such fucking blue puller and being so fuckig obnoxiously arrogant at the same time, telling guys like me what’s wrong with me when you can’t even take ownership of your own sexual desires. But I can’t cuz it’s not funny. It pathological. You seem mesmerized by your own “pain” and past wounds. You wrap yourself up in dime store analysis but you barely actually act on any of what u learn here. It’s unnecessary. And oh yeah, I’ll bet you a thousand bucks I was abused more… Read more »

heyjay
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@ Glenn: it’s a common problem, actually people truly capable of self-reflection are very rare. Girls can’t at all (it seems) and many guys neither.
There has been a lot of valuable information both in Rollo’s posts, the comments and from you as well! However the motivation has to come from the inside, external sources don’t serve as well, I guess…

Kate
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Lay off, Glenn. Softek is making progress. And if he changes as much in the next six months as you did in the last six, he’ll be very different the next time you pay attention to him.

Jeremy
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@Softek Well, went to the party. Only two girls there, one of their boyfriends was there, and I don’t know about the other one. I didn’t try anything. I had a great time… …The idea of qualifying for sex feels absolutely ridiculous to me right now. ONE-itis seems ridiculous too. “Fuck me or fuck you” fits the bill perfectly. I have lived in a sex starved hell for so many fucking years, I’m horny as hell and am not getting anything even remotely related to satisfaction. Not to minimize your pain, but I know there are men who frequent the… Read more »

M3
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Every Jeremy said times 1000. You have to learn to walk before you can run. Evolution, including all the external hardships that impacted humans in the past – created mans lot in life to continue strive to improve and show his value, to women and society et large in order to have a chance at mating. It was those men who were selected for that ensured the day to day business of life becoming better and more productive than the previous generation took place. If women didn’t select for that, and just had sex with every and any man –… Read more »

LiveFearless
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@M3 Hawks vs. Doves Cambridge Study:
Evolutionarily stable strategies and nonequilibrium… http://wp.me/P3P5mL-tF http://wp.me/P3P5mL-tF

Softek
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@ Glenn To be fair, you’re attaching to your stuff too. Even saying you had it worse than me or whatever is comparing yourself to me. You’re doing the same thing you’re accusing me of. You aren’t understanding what I’m saying. Why would you mention anything with steel brushes or fire or attempted murder unless you still had an emotional charge to these memories? You have an emotional charge to your memories of abuse and you’re attaching to them as if the memories are actually real, and you’re trying to give me some of your special stuff by dumping that… Read more »

jacklabear
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Exfernal Wrote: (middle ground) “Between what? Spinning plates, serial monogamy and “pay to play”? Pick your poison.” You are right about that. I end up rotating amongst those options, although much less of the last two as I metabolize the red pill. I was having a moment of idealism hoping that there was something more nourishing. Not having found it, the ‘poison’ I pick as a foundation for all of it is testosterone. It’s bad enough that nature seems to be conspiring against us with the plethora of xeno and phyto estrogens and the dearth of xeno and phyto androgens.… Read more »

Retrenched
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It goes without saying that such an admission as Sandberg’s can only come from a position of supreme power and advantage. No woman is going to talk openly about AFBB and her preference for jerks, unless she’s pretty damned sure that there will be lots of nice, sex starved betas willing to wait out her party years, alone and celibate, while she has her fun with the alphas – and then, knowing that she has had all this fun with other men, still be ready to wife her up and invest in her, because they have no other options. Free… Read more »

Softek
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One example to clarify my point: I have some fear or phobia of using the bathroom around other people. I have no idea why. For a long time I’ve been working on this. Forcing myself to take a piss at work, or god forbid I have to use the toilet, even though everything inside of me tells me to just hold it. I have a marginal success rate. A lot of times I do just hold it because the anxiety gets so bad it feels easier to endure the misery of holding it in rather than using the bathroom when… Read more »

jf12
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@Retrenched re: “It’s just so over the top and in your face, really, this open taunting of beta men.”

You can always tell whether someone is a girl if they treat beta males i.e. nice guys poorly just for being nice. Always.

Softek
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Also, sorry to Glenn again. I haven’t cleared out my abuse memories and it was kind of a dick thing to just tell you that you’re making it all up in your mind. Even though I really believe that you are. You’re not being abused, and you’re the one doing it to yourself now because you’re holding onto those memories and believing that they’re real, because when you think of what happened to you it feels real. Basically I was pissed off at you because that’s exactly what you did to me — harsh advice. It’s true advice. Very true.… Read more »

Steve H
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Softek – good work going to that party. And it was ‘work’ in a way, right? But you had a great time. And it brought up some very primal sexual stuff for you, which is a step in the right direction. Now – tomorrow is Monday. If you live within an hour’s drive of any small city, there will likely be a young professional’s meetup happy hour. Just punch ‘happy hour meetup group young professionals (your city)’ into Google. You can do what you just did 7 days a week. And with the YP type or volunteer/charity-type gatherings, there’s absolutely… Read more »

water cannon boy
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water cannon boy
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Just read about Esther Vilar and watched an interview on youtube. She wrote her book “The Manipulation of Men” in 1975.

melmoth
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melmoth
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@Retrenched, “It’s just so over the top and in your face, really, this open taunting of beta men. Telling beta men, straight up, ‘We’re going to sleep with guys we think are hotter than you, and then when we’ve decided that we’ve slept with enough of them, we’re going to settle for you. And you will be there, because you have to be, and there’s nothing you can do about it. In fact, we’re so sure that you’ll be there for us, desperately waiting for us to get tired of the guys we think are hotter than you, that we’re… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Kate – Tell me, what on earth makes you think that you have the standing to tell me – or anyone – what to do or not do on this thread? Notice that the men here haven’t done so, yet you weigh in. In case you forgot, the last thing I come here for is to listen to women about anything. One wonders about the pathology at work with you and Minter, lol. I get it, neither of you have any dignity or self-respect, but really, anyone with a shred of common sense would just have faded from view.… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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@Glenn: What are *you* standing on? Looks a little wobbly.

kfg
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kfg
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@Kate – While I cannot personally endorse Glenn’s language, his position is rock solid.

You are a guest here and any attempts to play Mother Hen can only serve as an example to prove the rule. You would be well advised to knock it off.

Kate
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Kate
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@kfg: I respectfully disagree. There are no rules here.

kfg
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kfg
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@Kate – I respectfully point out the peculiarity of that claim, given its subject.

Glenn
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@ Softek – I want you to digest one simple idea. “Learning implies a permanent change in behavior”. What has actually changed in you since encountering the Red Pill world? For me, the entire world looks different. Just yesterday I was with three of my sisters and my ex-step mom, watching the female imperative at work in my family system and out in public. The owner of the country winery we had brunch at, a man of 61, kept calling my ex-stepmother’s current husband ‘old man’ and ‘grandpa’ for some reason (he’s 79), he thought it was funny in that… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Kate – You should know better than to try and fuck with a real man. Stick with that loser Minter, as my guess is that like most modern man you can’t ever subject yourself to a man’s dominance so you instead settle for someone you know is more broken than you. I mean as a pot head and failure in his career who abandoned his children (according to his ex), and as a loudmouth who’s only achievement in life was to puff himself up in an online community via lies and bullshit, he’s a real catch, lol. Sometimes ‘social… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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@kfg: Ah, I get you. Alright, I promise to no longer attempt to help give men a safe place to become better men without being attacked by men.

wink

Kate
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Kate
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Bye, Glenn. Have a nice day. For someone who purports to have taken the red pill, you sure were pretty easily convinced by some bad journalism…

kfg
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kfg
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@Kate – Actions speak louder than words. I’ll believe it when I see; and only for so long as I continue to see it.

Kate
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Kate
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@kfg: That’s very true, but the fact that you don’t see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

kfg
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kfg
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@Kate – It is well that you appreciate the problem inherent in having broken trust.

jf12
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@Glenn, re: “In a way, getting laid for me is easier than ever because most women I’m interested in simply don’t click with an older guy like me – but I don’t feel rejected by that, it’s just data and I move on without even noticing anymore. But those younger women who do find me attractive, well they make it clear, and I simply then use game.” I’m agreeing and amplifying for lurkers who would want to think incorrectly. Glenn isn’t talking about gold-diggers wanting to scam beta bux out of the befuddled old dude. Glenn is saying that since… Read more »

Tam the Bam
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Softek mate, surefire cure for bathroom paralysis. Involves actually leaving your room, I’m afraid. * go to pub (a proper one, no stupid tables and menus and coffeemachines, just a brass footrail and the beer engines) * choose a day like today while the World Cup is on (and you guys are still in (till Thursday at least) so the bogs will be awash at halftime (again, proper pubs have at most one cubicle with a door; if you choose carefully you might get one with those glorious tiled hundred-year-old part-stalls over the gutter; admire the craftsmanship) * pick a… Read more »

John
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John
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Ray said: “It’s funny that all the Science Fiction writing geniuses overlooked the point you found so patent and obvious — that modern maleness in an artifice imposed upon boys and men for the selfish purposes of females collectively, and for the selfish purposes of a subset of collaborative men. The construction of un-men is the greatest Horror of the past century, and yet it is completely ignored, or worse, by almost everyone.” Actually Isaac Asimov’s Robot series (not iRobot) goes into this. There is a former human colony planet where all the men have been beatified completely and all… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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I’m sorry, kfg. I don’t follow. What do you mean?

New Yorker
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New Yorker
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Thank you Rollo for reposting. Priceless article. If a girl does not look forward to stretching her prior sexual comfort zone with you…..she does not like you that much.

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