I thought this was an interesting comment from CaveClown from a few posts ago. Needless to say the commentariat has increased in the last 6 months and I wanted to air this out rather than have it buried five pages deep:
Rollo, question if you have time.
After unsuccessfully searching the archives, and having read your new book, i wonder if you have a post that further explains:1. Why a “good girl” would skip the party years.
2. Why that good girl would become an early consolidator, and settle for a beta provider.I understand that the “good girl” persona is just an attempt at seduction through differentiating herself from the “sluts”
I also understand that the “promise” of dropping the good girl act ‘for him’ is what snags the beta. The promise of her “sexual best” and all. (which is why women that do ride the carousel go “born again” later, no?)
At first glance, it seems like a solid strategy for hypergamy. If she can sell herself as virtuous, pure, and virginal, then she should have higher SMV.
Then why settle for a beta?
I’m trying to reconcile the “good girl” persona, and the manosphere trope about marrying a virgin. Seems a lot of men think that “if I could just find a virgin” things would be ok for them. (which is just a variation of blue pill/soul mate stuff)
I detailed a bit of the first question in Making Up For Missing Out and Good Girls Do. It’s important to make the distinction between a ‘good girl’ in that she’s nominally following the old-set-of-books traditional social contract, and the Good Girl strategy I went into in the latter post.
Bear in mind, no woman actually “skips” the Party Years. She may participate to greater or lesser degree in the opportunities those years open up to her, but she’s still keenly aware of those opportunities and realizes the window for them closes as her beauty and fertility fade. She sees her girlfriends, maybe sisters, indulge those opportunities, or she may live them vicariously through media that panders to them, but regardless, she’s feeling the pull of knowing she could potentially realize them.
One of my best friends married his first wife very early – him 21, and her 19. The guy was very Alpha (military), but had the White Knight script firmly coded into him courtesy of his Blue Pill conditioning. He did everything by the old set of books and knew he wanted to marry her after they’d been together for about eight months. He wasn’t her first lay, but she didn’t have more than 1 previous boyfriend, so while not a virgin she hadn’t been on the proverbial carousel for long at all.
They had three kids, early and out of the gate right after they married. She ‘played house’ well enough all through her 20’s while her sisters and girlfriends had their Party Years and urged her to come along for their GNOs. Once their youngest was old enough to be self-sufficient she started joining them. By the time she was 33 the marriage was over because she’d decided to follow the making up for missing out dynamic. She ended up cheating on him and then doing her version of the Wild Oats Project.
Virgin Brides Alpha Widows
There’s a wishful contingent of guys in the ‘sphere who think finding a young virgin bride before the world’s corrupted her pure soul is (or at least should be) a tenable goal. I understand the want and logic behind that, but even with a virgin bride there is no insulation from the sexual marketplace or the realities women experience as they mature.
By all measure this guy’s wife was as close to that ideal as was practical. He’s also one of more than a dozen men I’ve known who’s “good Christian wives” detonated their marriages in a similar fashion. Generally all went along with the divorce-porn fantasies after their dutiful husbands had become boring Betas in their esteem.
2. Why [would] that good girl would become an early consolidator, and settle for a beta provider.
Religious conviction, LSE (low self esteem), definitely cultural or economic motivations, a fear of men in general leading to security issues. You also have to consider the likelihood that the guy she settles on early is possibly the most Alpha guy she’s ever experienced.
Of the 40+ women I’ve had in my sexual past, two were virgins. Both of these women sought me out on Face Book 15-20 years after we’d went our separate ways. They are definitely not the same girls I knew back then, but I think this is an interesting illustration of a larger dynamic. Then and now, both of these girls surprised me with their attachment to me – I think that’s part of a bond you make with a woman when you’re her first.
It’s the “never forget your first” dynamic. There’s a presumption that any guy a “good girl” grants access to her pussy must be a top tier man to qualify for it. This is an ingrained psychological schema for women with the self perception of being a “good girl”.
So she consolidates on what she perceives was Alpha for her at 18. That perception is markedly different from what she’ll perceive as Alpha at 29, right as she enters her Epiphany Phase. If you read back through the Preventive Medicine series (or the book), I specifically outline a phase on women maturation timeline called the Break Phase. This is generally around the late teens (17-19) and I noted it in particular because it’s a moment in a young man’s life when his Blue Pill idealism is most commonly first tested.
The flip side of the Break Phase for women is the “never forget your first” dynamic conflicting with the opportunities her rapidly approaching peak SMV phase present to her. There may be an emotional investment on her part with a man she up to that point esteemed as the most Alpha man she was likely to ever pair with.
The Jig is Up
The danger inherent in these arrangements is that both young men and women make life-altering decisions based on their adolescent social skill set – not what will be their (hopefully) matured adult social skill set based on their experiences and acculturation. Thus you have the common situation my now-divorced friend experienced. I say common because one of the most frequent situations I get asked advice about from divorced men in their mid 30’s to early 40’s is how to initiate Game and wisely use their new Red Pill awareness after having been married since 23 or so.
For the most part they’re still confused how the woman who’d found them so Alpha at that age could toss off all of the relational equity he’d thought he’d earned with her and leave him for the ‘douchebags’ she’d always claimed to hate. What they don’t (or didn’t) realize is the root level resentment they’re experiencing with a woman they may have been married to for 15 years. That resentment stems from coming to terms with their Hypergamous filtering having been ‘fooled’ all those years ago; and the crush loss of not having been able to capitalize on the opportunities of those years.
It’s not that she’d settled for what she thought was a Beta in her early twenties, it’s that he was what she thought was Alpha then, but learned later that he wasn’t. This is the risk inherent to Hypergamy – that a woman might miss out on more optimal sexual selection choices while still in her peak SMV phase and able to choose from the broadest pool.
It’s almost a reversal of women who follow the Sandberg plan of Hypergamy and make disclaimers of how different they are now from how they used to be in college. The sentiment is still the same, but the roles are reversed – she’s different now from how she used to be because she (thinks) she has a better grasp of what is Alpha now and he ain’t it.
If there’s a silver lining to this it’s that this post-marriage Epiphany Phase generally happens earlier in a man’s life. If he’s made a lot of his potential up to then, and the divorce wasn’t too devastating, he’s in a far better position as far as life stage is concerned than the Beta guy a woman settles for at 29 after her Party Years. That fellow gets the Beta boot in his 50s and it’s a tall order to recover and have a Red Pill awakening.
Ignorance is best ignored, but if you must rant and attack it here’s how it’s done:
What the fuck are you saying insanity? “Actually yes, Tomassi. The felons, thugs and assorted yahoos are often much safer for us to be around then the depressed and rage driven betas.” Thugs and felons are safer than some frustrated accountant?! Have you ever encountered some of these men after they’ve been institutionalized? Most of them are so warped by the experience that they actually prefer prison. Check the recidivism rates for the alpha thugs you prefer… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/22/america-s-recidivism-nightmare.html Bitch you are so fucking confused. You vacillate between spewing muddled christian feminist bullshit and begging for “thug” cock. If you… Read more »
@Insanitybytes Does your husband know that you spend an inordinate amount of time online, flirting with a popular author? As for Reality being subjective, that sounds like postmodernist bullshit. I thought churchians believed in an objective reality defined by God. Anyway, Redpill/Evo psych is at least based on research and empirical observation. If a thousand men are screaming that asshole game works, maybe asshole game works. There are several psychologists who specialize in evo psych and publish in peer reviewed journals. I’ll take their research combined with my own observations over platitudes any day of the week. P.S. Rollo will… Read more »
@Sun- Great work on the editing. As to the post this week- I have continued being friends with my HS gf over the last 25-30 yrs. She is now married to a woman and came out of the closet sometime in her twenties. I rarely get together with her without her prospecting me for sex, or bringing up the idea of me impregnating her etc. there is something to being a womans first. It won’t save you from hypergamy though- not by a long shot. Someone here wrote that guys go into RP as a form of insurance against hypergamy,… Read more »
Apologies if this has already been covered. Apparently while trying to prove that men are more sexist than women, researchers were surprised to find that in fact the reverse was true. In four separate experiments, men were shown to actually have a negative “own gender group bias”. While in contrast, women were found to have a extremely strong “own gender group mechanism”. In other words… women have an innate and automatic propensity to be biased in favour of their own sex. Rollo, it would be really interesting to get your take on the subject of “automatic own gender group bias”… Read more »
An aspect of Roosh that seems to have slipped many minds is that he is a Muslim, most probably father Iranian (Azeri) Shiite and mother Turkish Alevi, his knick name is Persian. I swim in that cultural milieu and I have met a thousand Rooshs in my lifetime, he is following the typical trajectory of a second generation Muslim man in the West. They integrate with great difficulty (there’s something about closed world views of any tripe that retards a mans thinking), they’re always an outsider looking in and more often than not quite socially awkward. Granted, the Shias tend… Read more »
Anything else you’d care to add asdgamer? I’m not defending Roosh. I’m attacking your hack philosophy. You use “science” as a rhetorical club, as if the word “science” had any generally agreed-upon meaning or set of attributes that could be used to distinguish it from non-science. No, Junior, there is no such thing as The Scientific Method. Sure, I don’t buy into evopsych. I’ve done leading edge experimental physics and I know how difficult it is to figure things out even when you use rigorous methods and can control experimental conditions. Experimental physicists initiate experiments and collect data real time,… Read more »
Evopsych researchers use edumacated guessing based on the detritus of the past. That’s the extent of their rigor. Actually, it isn’t… https://evolution-institute.org/article/on-common-criticisms-of-evolutionary-psychology/?source=tvol Anti-Game, anti-science (see more than a few christo-manosphereans) Red Pill critics like to think evo-psych is a new pseudo-science, when in fact it’s been around (formally) since the late 60s. In that time it’s really gotten interesting since we’ve plotted the human genome (in no small part to Scientific Method) and discovered even more about ancient societal structures thanks to scientific innovations in the fields of biology, archaeology, anthropology, etc. (yay Paleo Diet!) Anti-evo-psych critics love to say… Read more »
@Johnycomelately Ah,his father is shia! In shia sect the have the Mutaa marriage, it is when any man can fuck a woman for an agreed time(even for one hour) and $$$.I don’t have the energy to elaborate , it’s a legal practice in shia islam. His Mother is Alavi!? That is another sect that I don’t have the energy to explain it as well. But that explains why Roosh’s mom&dad had no problem with Roosh fucking “western” women and using them as Mutaa marriage and wanting him to find a “good woman” for a good marriage. I think you are… Read more »
@TheLastCoyote – “Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better” – roger that. As for the young girls I have a reco for you. At your age, a date with you should be entirely “comfortable” for both you and the young woman you are seeing. You see, if she’s going to lunch with your or whatever, she’s already got the fantasy going in her hamster. You in turn have to be mysterious and powerful and skilled and experienced and wise – and most of all not put off your game. The shit tests are usually subtle, checking the phone,… Read more »
“No, Junior, there is no such thing as The Scientific Method.”
Guy called him junior LOL, shit just got real.
What insanity looks like:
http://www.rooshv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/lindywest2.jpg
@Sifrellc – “One-itis” for male pursuits, so good. I make it all so important and weighted and freighted with shit, wow. Yes, I took the grief model reco from a comment of yours a few back. Helps me place myself somewhere instead of just spinning. I love the focus on “Quality” – I get it. And not focusing on or “greenlighting” the negative aspects of my personality is another great distinction. Okay, bearing down on Game. @Forge – I came out of a real depression from the winter a couple of months ago so I think it’s more the latter.… Read more »
sifrellc:
I saw that comment when I was initially reading the thread, looked at the picture and thought: “That doesn’t look like any hickory I’m used to seeing, that looks like a big elm, or ash. Why would any sane person cut down a hickory unless they were flat broke and needed crack money?”
I laughed at the tresspassers/walking dead/morels bit.
So… ok… you were finding morels…
under that huge, ‘live’ hickory’. I see, I see.
“Does your husband know that you spend an inordinate amount of time online, flirting with a popular author? …
P.S. Rollo will never fuck you ;)”
Yep, Rollo didn’t have to do a thing and he has already alpha widowed insanity bytes.
@Rollo
The draw back about Roosh is his Muslim background.
It could be used by feminists to relate his views toward women with his religion to discredit the manosphere.
It was a bitternut hickory (Carya cordiformis). Obviously most of the time we are seeing shagbark hickories with the shingle like bark. I have a couple of wealthy friends that cut down trees with impunity with an abundance mentality. And then let it rot. (return phosporus to the ground) This particular one has 300 acres and some old dense canopy area of woods. Trees are felled to destroy the canopy and let sunlight down to let growth occur at deer height. I know it offends your sensibilities, but it’s strictly for deer habitat. Habitat manipulation for deer is a passion/pursuit… Read more »
@Glenn
Try this for 3-4 days in the AM. No breakfast, eat a big lunch. Cost you 40 bucks at high health.
25000 UI of Mixed Carotenoids
300 UI of K2
2000UI of vitamin D
Decent probiotic. (I like the gummies, easier on the gut I think)
Stop taking any others or multi, especially if it contains zinc.
See how you feel.
I got a hunch.
@ Glenn
“I don’t really trust or even admire myself. Wow. Fucking wow.”
There is not one man who has offered up comments to you in the past day that doesn’t trust and even admire you. You have our admiration and we trust in you. Don’t let us down.
Re: Roosh – As a fellow existential crisis sufferer I can empathize with Roosh, gut his is very different from mine. A few thoughts: Who ever said making your entire life about banging random eastern European chicks was a formula for success or happiness or fulfillment? When I first ran into him 2 years ago he was already lamenting the emptiness of it. His larger ideas about the world have always been shit. I rejected him and RoK when I noticed the racist and anti-semitic crap. It’s not just righteousness that makes me do that, it also tells me that… Read more »
“I’ve done leading edge experimental physics and I know how difficult it is to figure things out even when you use rigorous methods and can control experimental conditions. Experimental physicists initiate experiments and collect data real time, so they know what forces produced the data. Evopsych researchers use edumacated guessing based on the detritus of the past. ” Under physics. The structure of atom is yet only still a model. We have not even solved if light is a particle or wave. Physicists have just hamsterbated that it is both. Mathematics complimenting the physics is still so novice that anything… Read more »
“The real purpose of the scientific method is to make sure nature hasn’t misled you into thinking you know something you actually don’t know.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
@sjfrellc
“There is not one man who has offered up comments to you in the past day that doesn’t trust and even admire you.”
Dude this is the blue pill standard feel good platitude that ends with a garden hose in the tailpipe when it doesn’t jive with reality. Just stop.
Glenn is a fucked up in the head train-wreck in this moment and needs to fix himself. Depression and negative emotions are SUPPOSED to be painful and act as an incentive to figure out your shit and move on.
” Traditional scientific method has always been at the very best 20-20 hindsight. It’s good for seeing where you’ve been. It’s good for testing the truth of what you think you know, but it can’t tell you where you ought to go.”
Robert M. Pirsig (b. 1928) Author
Tilikum. Ok. Got it.
“Not true, Tomassi, but you are so heavily invested in your red pill/blue pill ideology that I suspect you are unable to see it. Also, many of the things you yourself claim to be “romantisized blue pill notions,” happen to be things that are important to all humans.” Hahaha! Holy shit! Delusion, Solipsism, FI agit prop on display in all its nakedness. We here, and Rollo, have never said those things are not important. They are important….in context!!! Red Pill thought stems from reality which the FI, through social, economic, and political methods has shielded from us, including women, who,… Read more »
@theasdgamer You use “science” as a rhetorical club, as if the word “science” had any generally agreed-upon meaning or set of attributes that could be used to distinguish it from non-science. No, Junior, there is no such thing as The Scientific Method. What? You mean the last 2,500 years of humanity from Plato until now, developing the methods of thinking from socratic to scientific methods of questioning was just an illusion? Well I didn’t live that span of time, so I guess there’s no proof, case closed. I’ve done leading edge experimental physics and I know how difficult it is… Read more »
@Sun – “Only madness that way lies.”
Haha! Indeed! Truer words…truer words!
Maybe Roosh has just walked the path of PUA longer and deeper then most and has come to the existential cliff of realization.
The next few months should be interesting. Will he jump? Or will he retreat?
Science is never settled people!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150601122445.htm
Glenn… let me link you up. Last night I just hopped on the compy to look up an answer, and happened to pop-in here.
This is where I was “finding my direction”. Sad revelations, really, like you’re likely having.
The Map and Compass
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153477
If you continue down the thread, I put in “The Castle”, where I rap about building your life on shaky ground (metaphorical shaky premises of the blue-pill), then realizing true strength and rebuilding.
Here’s my FR “bootcamping” journal if for nothing else but entertainment.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=100718
Do what you gotta do, man. Best of luck!
“How come the wife of the rich millionaire fucks the penniless poolboy? How come the wife of that doctor fucks the asshole she works with? How come the girlfriend of a AAA celeb cheats on him with some unknown dude? How come girls will fuck the wifebeater poor dude who slaps them around, and will choose him over the BB Nice Guy orbiter? Why do housewives fuck the TV repair guy?… Doctor > desk guy” just doesn’t hold up in the real world. There are way more factors involved and very few of them are actually based on external attributes…”… Read more »
@Tilikum – Advice taken, will begin tomorrow. @Sifrellc – Got it. I’ve lost perspective, I’m regaining and will rally. New POV that is emerging is a bit weird and unnerving. I suddenly don’t feel like I’m in such a rush or so behind where I should be. New. Gonna work on my new website/business brand for the rest of the day and forget about all these big questions. @All – Citation from the study linked above about female ingroup biases. “Four experiments confirmed that women’s automatic in-group bias is remarkably stronger than men’s”. “Experiment 1, only women (not men) showed… Read more »
Guy called him junior LOL, shit just got real.
Actually I was addressing everyone who thinks that there is such a thing as The Scientific Method.
What? You mean the last 2,500 years of humanity from Plato until now, developing the methods of thinking from socratic to scientific methods of questioning was just an illusion? Well I didn’t live that span of time, so I guess there’s no proof, case closed. Straw man. I wasn’t arguing against history from which we have eyewitness reports. Experimental journal articles typically rely on eyewitness reports from the experimenters. Your criticisms of sciences that do not have the benefit of experiment… The key is experimental control. Sure, we have observations on which we rely. Astronomy is necessarily much less rigorous… Read more »
@theasdgamer Straw man. I wasn’t arguing against history from which we have eyewitness reports. Experimental journal articles typically rely on eyewitness reports from the experimenters. You were arguing that the scientific method does not exist. History shows otherwise. Where’s that straw man again? The key is experimental control. Sure, we have observations on which we rely. Astronomy is necessarily much less rigorous than what you did as an undergrad. The level of control just isn’t there. Distances are huge and light may have passed through natural filters out in space. …and yet, is *IS* a science, one that you apparently… Read more »
Actually I was addressing everyone who thinks that there is such a thing as The Scientific Method.
The Scientific Method doesn’t exist? Well fuck me running, then I guess none of the computers we’re discussing it on exist seeing as they were a product of chaotic trial and error rather than of our Scientific Method driven understanding of physics, chemistry, and mathematics. Truly remarkable thinking there.
Too bad it’s absolute bullshit.
Jeremy, how can conjecture be a science as in testable and repeatable?
@DeNihilist Jeremy, how can conjecture be a science as in testable and repeatable? How is observation not scientific? The testy argument going here is that Rollo’s writing isn’t much different from Roosh’s comical rejection of evolution in human beings. You ask a question which I made no claims on, but is perhaps worth addressing based on the conversation. Conjecture is by definition a conclusion drawn from incomplete information. Unfortunately if you leave it at that definition, then all scientific progress is invalidated because arguably we as a species are drawing conclusions based on incomplete information. At some point, you have… Read more »
Thanks Jeremy. As even Einstein noted, it just takes one fact to prove him wrong.
And yes to the concept that science has been placed on a pedestal these last 50 or so years, (sound familiar?) so argument to authority has reared its ugly head. As is shown in the article I posted above, or in the case of ulcers or continental drift, et.al., we as a species, are still so ignorant, but refuse to look at our ignorance all to often.
Also, not for nothing, but I’ve always found it ironic that the greater part of evo-psych critics in the manosphere who complain about incomplete “detritus” informing conjecture are oddly some of the most ardent supporters of Jungian theories based on conjectures made over a century ago.
@Jeremy Only modern society has convinced humans otherwise, given them some ridiculous belief in knowing it all. Wholesale rejection of Socratic Ignorance, essentially. Extremists often take advantage of this, promising answers where scientists (or whoever is considered an authority in a field) gracefully accept incomplete knowledge. What a lot of people fail to understand is the reason scientists accept incomplete knowledge is because they have Socratic Ignorance; they know and accept the limits of their current knowledge. A lot of people think science and the Scientific Method are about being “right”, whereas any good scientist (or hell, engineer for that… Read more »
“Anti-Game, anti-science (see more than a few christo-manosphereans) Red Pill critics like to think evo-psych is a new pseudo-science, when in fact it’s been around (formally) since the late 60s.” Since the late 60’s?? The time period that also gave us sex, drugs, and free love? Feminism? Baby boomers? Awesome references there, Tomassi. Well now, if it came from the 60’s it must be true. Science, registered trademark, is so filtered through politics these days, it barely resembles anything worthy to be called science. Also, it is so frequently contradictory, one can actually pick and chose and edit out the… Read more »
You were arguing that the scientific method does not exist. History shows otherwise.
Actually it doesn’t. See Thomas Kuhn. http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-50th-Anniversary/dp/0226458121/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433438023&sr=8-1&keywords=thomas+kuhn
Also see Paul Feyerabend. http://www.amazon.com/Against-Method-Paul-Feyerabend/dp/1844674428/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433438129&sr=8-1&keywords=feyerabend
Selling books is not making an argument, try writing something in a comment. Perhaps if you could summarize the relevant arguments of those books without copying what exists on an Amazon page.
So many cranks in the manosphere. Which would be all of you who claim that there is a Scientific Method ™. No, there are many, many very different methods used by researchers. And some of them might be similar, while others might be very divergent.
This question is in the domain of philosophy of science, specifically, in demarcation theory. It’s a topic on which I have published. But don’t let that stop you from being total cranks. Heh.
Still not seeing an argument. I suppose expecting rational discourse makes me a crank then.
@theasdgamer
Seriously, that’s horse shit on such a different level, it surpasses all horse shit I’ve heard. It’s unicorn shit.
“So many cranks in the manosphere. Which would be all of you who claim that there is a Scientific Method ™”
I know, right?? I blame a lack of sex, general feelings of unworthiness, and an inability to believe in love. Somebody should bake you guys some cookies or something.
Kuhn showed that irrational elements are extremely important in theory acceptance. Changes don’t come primarily because of reasoned argumentation. More likely they come one funeral at a time. It was commonly thought by philosophers of science that The Scientific Method ™ was inherently rational. When Kuhn noticed that irrational elements are important for theory acceptance, that caused philosophers to look more closely at what researchers were actually doing as opposed to what Rationalist philosophers like Popper said that researchers were doing. Feyerabend showed that if you examined research methods in history, they would be indistinguishable from epistemological anarchism. I.e., there… Read more »
This is the top Amazon review for one of those books: Feyerabend was probably the first philosopher of science who really stated that science as it is practised by scientists themselves is NOT an enterprise which can be strictly constructed or even fully described in any conventional methodical way such as the philosophies of positivism and even rationality or idealism for that matter propose. As is true for any human enterprise, no matter how strongly this is denied by the popular science press, it is, as Feyerabend puts it, an anarchaic enterprise, this does not mean random chaos or a… Read more »
“I’ve always found it ironic that the greater part of evo-psych critics in the manosphere who complain about incomplete “detritus” informing conjecture are oddly some of the most ardent supporters of Jungian theories based on conjectures made over a century ago.”
“Jungian” would be Swiss psychologist Carl Jung, a contemporary (and later critic) of Freud. Jung developed the idea of archetypes, on which the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator test is based. (Many devotees of the MBTI as being the end-all be-all of sexual marketplace compatibility. Heh.) He also pioneered dream analysis and suggested the introvert-extrovert dichotomy.
@deti, I’m still going with an existential crisis:
https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/606253184286396416
@theasdgamer
Ah, so if changes don’t come by reasoned argumentation, then I guess they come from… disproof or invalidation by experiment and observation. Would you say that’s true?
@yareally, you’re making your claims around the viewpoint that girls act on primal impulse. That’s fine, they have subconscious attraction and what not, so the primal impulse is subconsciously there. But so do men, they have this too. That’s like saying to girls–don’t trust any man out there b/c as soon as he sees a young hot girl he’s gonna subconsciously court her then try to sleep with her, so you can’t trust any man. It does go both ways for equal smv’s…..but we both know that there are high smv alpha guys that are (somewhat) happy and satisfied for… Read more »
Ah, so if changes don’t come by reasoned argumentation, then I guess they come from… disproof or invalidation by experiment and observation. Would you say that’s true?
No. Read Kuhn. Do your homework. Or keep quiet.
That’s a gas coming from someone who won’t make arguments and instead just tells people to shut up because they supposedly don’t know what they’re talking about.
It’s a fact that knowing something means you can teach it to others. Since you are unable or unwilling to teach me, I conclude you don’t really know what you’re talking about.
@theasdgamer
How bout you make an argument from what you supposedly learned from him or keep quiet yourself, eh? All I’m hearing so far is somebody that plays games with semantics but doesn’t actually change a thing about how the scientific method works.
Maybe the brainwashing goes like this. Fatties and feminists are being brainwashed into believing they can be happy and content and have love by just being fat and short haired and living themselves. Whereas the brainwash on guys is the you havvvve to be a doctor or lawyer or ceo to consistently pull the hottest girls. When really it’s not like that…be a fucking man, have a backbone, give your girl emotions. I think it comes down to personal inner satisfaction with yourself. So like if you’re fine with being a front desk guy or pool boy that’s cool. But… Read more »
Basically this just comes back to CH’s male smv test. Maximize that score for best poon results. Being a high status career gives you +1 point just like good looks can give you +1
RooshV World Tour
“Why am I here? Why is anybody here? What’s the point? Where did everybody go?”
Followed by a Question and no Answer session. Have to see how it evolves.
@Jeremy “particularly very-christian blue-pill conditioning, on men is it prevents them from coming to terms with their own sexuality. Moral and Social expectations make people believe things about humanity that are just not true, and these can be internalized early, creating a view of the self that is incompatible with real life.” That’s a huge portion of my Mormon blue pill days. “If I don’t have people who disagree with me in life, I can be absolutely certain I am in a mentally unhealthy environment.” That’s my family home in a nutshell. “I usually have regarding the now-finished television show… Read more »
@redlight
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/3749-i-see-what-you-did-there-no-text.png
@Glenn “I’m terrified of having my own purposes. I don’t really trust or even admire myself.” How COULD you? You’ve just realized that your self has been wrong about 90% of the shit it was adamantly sure it was right about. How can you trust that if you let your self choose a purpose that it won’t choose wrong again? I’m not stressing your situ (I have zero worries you’ll commit suicide), or worried about “your repressed anger issues” (lol) or giving you a ton of praise because what you’re going thru is perfectly natural. There’s no need to deal… Read more »
@Will “I think it comes down to personal inner satisfaction with yourself. So like if you’re fine with being a front desk guy or pool boy that’s cool.” You got it. It’s internal, not external. The doctor who hates his job will be lower value to a girl than the janitor who loves his job with an intense passion. That’s not what social conditioning will say but it’s how it works in reality. “But it’ll probably be a lot harder to be satisfied as an independent at this day and age compared to the other higher status fields.” I don’t… Read more »
@All
While I appreciate the compliments, please tell me what on the show sucks. I already have a laundry list of stuff to make better, but if there’s a group I expected better and better criticism from…
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/5790-death-stare.gif
“It was commonly thought by philosophers of science that The Scientific Method ™ was inherently rational.”
And so, the three blind men, upon holding a conference, reach a consensus that there is no elephant.
@yareally that was good I agree with it for the most part. But….I’m not sure I agree with you regarding “men having to control their impulses”. Sure yeah every guy would have pussy crawling to him and his wife with no repercussions. High value guys with game who see the hot young girl CAN secretly court the girl and get away with it (no consequences). But a lot of alpha established guys don’t give in to that urge (b/c of morals or guilt etc or they’re satisfied already). I think it’s similar to girls…I guess what I’m saying is that… Read more »
And so, the three blind men, upon holding a conference, reach a consensus that there is no elephant.
Wrong story. Emperor’s New Clothes fits.
@theasdgamer
Emperor’s New Clothes fits.
Feel free to keep wearing them then.
Joseph Priestley is remembered for discovering oxygen, which he called “dephlogisticated air”. Priestley died still believing in the Theory of Phlogiston. It has been said that science progresses one funeral at a time. This, of course, is an irrational way for human understanding to progress. So much for some rational “Scientific Method.”
Oops
Real **world
Not real “work”
@Sun
Feel free to keep wearing them then.
Do you realize that you are making my point? There are no clothes–that’s my point. There is no Rational thing called “The Scientific Method.”
@theasdgamer I’m aware of a point you keep driving at but making no solid argument for. It’s you that lack clothes. If you’re going to claim complete invalidation of a well proven logical process that we’ve derived actual results from for a couple of millennia of technological progress, then the onus is on you to present an argument worth a damn. So far the only “argument” you’ve made in an attempt to prove your specious point is to point out a case of a man who a) lived in a time that lacked a model and language to explain his… Read more »
@Will “High value guys with game who see the hot young girl CAN secretly court the girl and get away with it (no consequences).” http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–2PP8dIV3–/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/1282586453080326804.png http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–I6R8K39t–/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/montly8w5r9bi2tqfmbs.jpg http://www.celebuzz.com/2014-04-03/did-james-franco-try-to-seduce-a-17-year-old-girl-using-instagram/ http://www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/usweeklytigercheat.jpg Tell these guys about how there are no consequences for a high-value man to fuck around. “I think it’s similar to girls…I guess what I’m saying is that if a girl is with a guy who triggers her hypergamy THERE WILL BE OTHER HIGH VALUE GUYS AROUND HER but that doesn’t mean she’s gonna act on the impulse.” Hypergamy is binary. A girl will settle for other high-value guys but she wants… Read more »
@Yareally
“Society is designed to always make you feel inadequete.”
Redpill gold internal confrontation
@Sun Wukong
Have more people involved such as caveclown and especially Glenn
@Tilikum – “Glenn is a fucked up in the head train-wreck in this moment and needs to fix himself. Depression and negative emotions are SUPPOSED to be painful and act as an incentive to figure out your shit and move on.” Exactly. And i ain’t proud of it either. But I have to be real and build from the wreckage, and the truth of it is that I’ve been wrecked for a long time. I’ve been faking it, and it shows. That’s okay. It wasn’t always thus. But reality is the answer. @Sifrellc – I know you mean well and… Read more »
“Wrong story”
Q.E.D.
“There are no clothes–that’s my point.”
Q.E.F.D.
@yareally ok those guys are famous and known well to all of the country. I’m not talking about that type of high value and fame. A girl probably won’t be making very many Vegas trips when she is satisfied with her hypergamy and with her man she’s with. Most of her life will revolve around him or pleasing him or whatever. Those guys you gave examples we already talked about (like how christiano Ronaldo is the AAA celebrity and has a harder time with harems). And I’m not clinging to any hope that being a doctor is the cheat code.… Read more »
@Will “I guess I’m just also confused with how you know that it’s been internalized.” You know it’s been internalized when you stop comparing your value to other men. When you’ve internalized it you’ll understand that other men are all, by default, no matter what anyone else thinks, lower value than you. This won’t make sense till you get there because you’re still caught up in society’s socially conditioned value system and figuring out where you “belong” on CH’s +/- charts and needing your value to be “justified” or based on some socially approved construct instead of just internally believing… Read more »
NSFW link but found this hilarious: http://www.reddit.com/r/CuteModeSlutMode On the left is the girl blue pill guys (and guys who still cling by their fingertips to the unicorn NAWALT notion) see. On the right is the girl guys who’ve fully swallowed the red pill see. For the right guy in the right circumstances your unicorn on the left will act like the girls on the right. And she’ll hide it from you. And she’ll LOVE it. If you focus on learning to BE the guy who gets the version of her on the right, then other guys will get the version… Read more »
@YaReally, Regarding Inner Game… I think where many guys stumble, including myself, is how much like, well to be frank, horse shit it appears at first. When you watch the Julien video for instance, it seems A) overly simple, B) somewhat magical thinking “If I imagine it, it will be.” It has a “The Secret” vibe to it which might be a little bit on how Julien sells it in in talk. Some of his examples are over the top for instance. Being Red Pill, we tend to very much hate magical thinking, for good reason. Now, tell me if… Read more »
Sorry, last part should have read:
It makes a lot of sense to me that way, and puts into perspective various lost chances where if you had assumed DIFFERENTLY, POSITIVELY, you would have likely had a much better result that what happened which was nothing due to doubt and inaction.
@YaReally Oh dear lawdy, that’s the first I’ve ever seen of Cute Mode Slut Mode, but that’s fucking amazing. It’s a thing I’ve never been able to put in to words adequately enough to snap a BP guy out of his fantasy (some girls are gifted with cute looks that just completely override a dude’s knowledge that she WILL play the slut given the right guy), but that right there… fuckin wow. @Will Listen to what YaReally says. If he contradicts you, you’re wrong. Seriously. He knows his shit. Let’s put it this way: if we were asking pre-med questions… Read more »
@Seraph You know I’ve been having to think about the Inner Game thing a lot lately as well (mostly thanks to YaReally drilling it in to everybody’s head around here) and I think I’m starting to see where to go with it. When I work on creative endeavors on a small budget, I always force myself to think “OK, if I had absolutely no limits, what would I want this thing to be?” I dream stupid stupid stupid big. Like stuff I’d never have the budget for. Then before I’m allowed to rule something out by being “realistic” about it,… Read more »
I understand the dynamic, thanks Tilikum. I’ll try to cut down on my logorrhea. I’m feeling I have less to figure out in my own dynamic, so I can comment less for the sake of commenting. I’m feeling much better after soaking up some Vitamin D at the farm yesterday and the slight dread and mild anxiety has easily passed. I appreciated the ongoing dialogue. @SunWuGong ( shut me down and drop me if I ever do what I did in that first session, despite my worldview hopefully I wasn’t so bad in the second non-recorded session). Moderate by going… Read more »
@Sun Wukong,
Exactly. Combine Dream Big/Think Big with the Don’t Make Perfect the Enemy of the Good . You always have the chance to improve next time out.
This video pretty much sums up American women.
http://zumic.com/music-videos/113030/sluts-usa-dwarves-nsfw-official-music-video/
And like the refrain says, “I wouldn’t have it any other way.”
Glenn
June 4th, 2015 at 6:08 pm
What do you have to be arrogant about?
Build on it.
theasdgamer June 4th, 2015 at 5:04 pm Joseph Priestley is remembered for discovering oxygen, which he called “dephlogisticated air”. Priestley died still believing in the Theory of Phlogiston. It has been said that science progresses one funeral at a time. This, of course, is an irrational way for human understanding to progress. So much for some rational “Scientific Method.” “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” – Max Planck “Truth never triumphs —… Read more »
“When you watch the Julien video for instance, it seems A) overly simple, B) somewhat magical thinking “If I imagine it, it will be.”” It absolutely seems that way…if you don’t go out and actively apply what he’s saying and see for yourself. Go out and approach girls for 6 months and tell them you work at Taco Bell. Tell them as if you hate it, tell them as if you’re passionate about it. Tell them you work as a doctor. Tell them you hate it, tell them you’re passionate about it. Go out with ugly clothes and approach them… Read more »
@Glenn She came from a very dysfunctional mother and had low self-esteem. She was wounded, as I was, and we both “fit” in that way for each other. But I think as she matured, she started to see she could do better. For her the turning point came when I began to demand she treat me well and cornered her in a place where she could no longer deny that she was not acting like she loved me anymore. She immediately began an affair that carried on for 6+ months until I called it quits. This is my last relationship… Read more »
@Will Tell me how much you have read of Tomassi’s first book and how many (number wise) of his essay’s on this blog? Tell me an honest number. My guess is not much and you are too busy. Read more and ask fewer questions (but never hesitate to ask questions for your own sake). And entering med school is when, this August? You shouldn’t be thinking of scoring pussy as a primary goal. Slide it down your list of priorities about ten notches. You should be thinking you will be scoring pussy as a by product of the most diligent… Read more »
Forgot to include you should read this Will:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/07/30/game-changers/
P.S. The classes of meddies I’ve partied with were out literally every weekend or two getting shit-faced and fucking eachother and trying to pick girls up at the bar (the cool outgoing social ones succeeded, the chodey ones stood against the wall being chodes). Especially first year. A lot of those dudes are actual doctors/surgeons etc. saving lives and shit right now and still get to party now and then lol Make an effort to sarge, and try to do it without alcohol ’cause you got school to focus on. It was common for them to get wasted on nights… Read more »
YaReally June 4th, 2015 at 9:41 pm The testosterone boost for the males and the frustrations of the females in the first year really does hyper-sexualize the atmosphere. My point is that you need tight game, mindfulness about what you are doing and to not have getting laid as a distraction. The main focus has to be on the medicine or you will be roadkill in 20 years, albeit having had your share of pussy along the way. Be good at being a man, be a good quality physician (and try to be among the 10% of physicians that feel… Read more »
Come to think about it I would hook up with a BPD chick in first year of med school. Lots of wild sex and she won’t let you spin plates, freeing you up to study more. Then she will dump you when you don’t commit to her and that bitter, angry breakup feeling will allow you to concentrate more on your studies.
Worked for me.
-“But all us good little chodey men who weren’t banging girls in junior high or weren’t born with a pussy are socially conditioned to feel like we are worthless pieces of shit and we have to EARN feeling high-value. We are taught that we are nothing until we become a doctor or get a 6-pack or become CEO or have a BMW because that keeps society/consumerism/etc. going. ” Or worse, taught that even if we achieve by the standard of such materialistic metrics we are still not enough unless we are giving freely of our labor, and product to every… Read more »
“And Will has tipped his hat that that is a desire for a sweet girl 4 years his junior that is good in bed and that will stick with him in a LTR.” No problem. Just need to find one of those virgins who’s never had sex (since virgins are more likely to not cheat), but who’s ALSO a crazy wild sex ninja like those slutty whore bar sluts. Where would she have learned to be good in bed? Shit, who knows, magic unicorn powers probably. I want my next surgeon to be a guy who never went to med… Read more »
@YaReally, man I could write a whole post on the dynamics surrounding the cute girl / slut girls videos,…oh…wait, I wrote two already… http://therationalmale.com/2013/03/29/show-and-tell/ http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/10/good-girls-do/ Seriously though, think about the cute girl / slut from the perspective of what those girls will look like at say 35. Think about that same dynamic when you see the next single mom of 2 kids you think might be something you want to hook up with. Think of that when you see that 48 y.o. divorcé who’s so into you because you’re so different from her ex(s). Think about that the next time… Read more »
@yareally @will @everybodybutib
“They really DO accept whatever frame you set”
one of my fav videos of Julien is when he describes trying out being a arrogant, condensing businessman (the great use of PUAs is they have tried a lot of shit out), and how even that got their attention
side note: hey trolls, wake-the-fuck-up, there is nothing but good comments on this page, if you don’t do something soon most men will be red pill and most women will be, well, you can imagine
The first two years are all book-work and no on call or clinical work in traditional med schools. Plenty of time to party and hook up, but you got to balance the time and study a lot. I spent my second year of medical school weekends as a hand selected autopsy assistant at the county coroner’s office. Every other weekend for a year it was just me and the pathologist doing on average five autopsies over two days. That was a good lesson in being desensitized and non-empathetic ( no need for empathy for the dead). I didn’t have to… Read more »
‘Fight Club 2’ just came out as a comic book written by Chuck Palahniuk. Only one issue so far but I thought it was fantastic in terms of art and story.
I know people really like that movie/book around here so I wanted to spread the word.
It’s published by Dark Horse so you have to buy it through them or pick it up physically at a store.