He’s Special


Sunshine Mary had an interesting insight about some of my analysis of Soft Dread:

It may come as a comfort for a guy who’s unused to sentimental declarations of appreciation, but it’s important to remember the why in that declaration, rather than the who in that declaration.

Although it seems mercenary, there is some truth to that. However, we are grateful because our husbands have saved us from spinsterhood. So it’s not a “rather than” situation, it’s that we are grateful to him because of what he has done…it’s both the who and the why. I wouldn’t have wanted to be saved from spinsterhood by just any man, ya know?

Mary knows I love her, and this is in no way a cut on her, but here’s a new item to add to the Hypergamy doesn’t care list:

Hypergamy doesn’t care about who you are, it only cares about what you are.

Your awesome personality, charm and any number of ingratiating personal traits are all perks – value added – that contribute to what you might consider Relational Equity, but as we’ve already observed, Hypergamy doesn’t care about Relational Equity. The problem with Mary’s estimation here is she hasn’t considered women’s Hypergamic capacity to make any man into a special man so long as he meets her Hypergamic criteria.

Chick Logic

In the past I’ve described the female sexual strategy as schizophrenic, but what it really is is pluralistic. All the jokes you read as 4Chan memes about ‘chick logic’ are only funny because we all have an intrinsic, largely unspoken, understanding of this sexual pluralism. The female sexual response is characterized by a dual nature, Alpha fucks and Beta bucks.

That’s the simplistic, distilled version ready for easy consumption and understanding, but the feminine sexual response is much more detailed on an individual level, and much more significant on a social level than just this jargon. Every stimulus bearing on the feminine, from how she’ll explain her girl’s night out to her LTR Beta, to how women in the workplace can rejigger legislature to create a society directed by the feminine imperative, all come back to the Alpha fucks / Beta bucks equation for optimizing Hypergamy.

Alpha fucks and Beta bucks is literally a biological imperative for women. I wrote in Balancing Sexual Pluralism about this pluralism describing the desire for that perfect balance of Alpha sexuality when ovulatory impulse predisposes women to it, as well as Beta comfort and security when her cycle predisposes her to it. This isn’t just my speculations, it’s a scientifically documented phenomenon common to all women. Yes, in this instance, all women are like this. It is literally in their DNA.

Hypergamy is the constant striving for an optimization of a woman’s sexual plurality. Although there may be behavioral permutations that women will use to achieve it, or the imitation of it, the underlying motivation of Hypergamy is the same for all women. It’s a hard-coded psychological survival script that’s benefitted the human race since our tribalist beginnings.

The War Brides Effect

Recently there’s been a lot of discussion on the forums I frequent about  Michelle Knight, Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus being held captive by Ariel Castro for a decade. Let that sink in a minute, a decade. That’s 10 years. That’s a lot of life to live. That’s a lot of normal to get used to. There are other cases like this; Jaycee Dugard and  Elizabeth Smart come to mind, but are all of these instances the results of a hard-wired Stockholm Syndrome in women?

As it applies to women, I think Stockholm Syndrome is a convenient term for psychology to a give a name to what really amounts to adaptive hypergamy. Granted, due to media sensationalism we may not hear about incidents where men have been taken captive for as long, but this identifying with one’s captor is far more prevalent in women than men.

Primarily I attribute this to the War Bride effect, wherein evolution selected-for women with a psychological facility to adapt to a new dominant male captor as a species-beneficial survival trait. Have a read of War Brides for the full theory, but the short version is essentially this: in early tribal societies, women evolved a capacity to accept new out-tribe (presumptively Alpha) conquering men as their masters after the fathers of their children were killed or otherwise defeated and neutralized.

This is not unfounded historically. There are documented tribal traditions in cross-culture societies where it was not only accepted, but expected of a man who’d defeated another in a challenge to assume responsibility of the slain man’s children and wife(ves). In terms of inter-tribal warring, it was common practice for the conquering tribe’s men to take (and often rape) the defeated tribe’s women. Another, more humane, version of this War Bride effect is found in Old Testament Jewish law where a dead man’s brother was expected to take his wife to bear children irrespective of the woman’s interest.

I originally went into detail in War Brides about this dynamic due to men’s observing women’s ease of transitioning romantically from one lover to another. That facility is a vestige of a psychology evolved to ensure Hypergamy is optimized with the best mate a woman’s environment (and her own physical conditions for attraction) will allow her. More often than not, in our evolutionary past, a woman’s conditions and environment were not of her own choosing, thus psychological contingencies had to evolve in order for women to maintain a mental and emotional dissonance while still ensuring as Hypergamously optimal a situation as she could.

Women lacking the mental capacity for selective, impersonal indifference to men would’ve been selected-out, either by debilitating emotional breakdown or by her new captor’s disregard for her provisioning. We can draw modern day parallels to the latter situation when we hear about how a woman might divorce her previous Beta provider husband for an Alpha lover only to regret having done so. It’s not the emotional consideration she regrets, but rather the loss of provisioning when her Alpha pumps and dumps her. Hypergamy is sated from one side of her sexual pluralism (Alpha fucks), only to create a deficit on the other side (Beta bucks).

War Brides vs. Alpha Widows

Where all this gets interesting is in considering the Alpha Widow dynamic;

 These are the Alpha Widows – women so significantly impacted by a former Alpha (or perceptually so) lover that she’s left with an emotional imprint that even the most dutiful, loving beta-provider can never compete with. A woman doesn’t have to have been an archetypal slut in order to have difficulty in pair bonded monogamy.

On the surface of it, it may appear that the Alpha Widow dynamic contradicts the War Brides dynamic, but if we dig deeper we find that they are both mutually reinforcing principles, and both are expressions of Hypergamy attempting solve the problem of women’s plural sexual strategy.

It is actually a woman’s capacity for selective indifference that predisposes her to an Alpha Widow state because the Alpha(s) she “can’t get over” imprinted an idealized state of an optimized Hypergamy for her. So the guy she banged in high school or college (the one with enough Alpha impression to take her virginity) is the idealization she harbors while married to the dutiful Beta. Even the abusive lout that a battered wife keeps returning to and refuses to press charges on, still represents that Hypergamous ideal to her.

Women will pine for the most significant Alpha they’ve experienced in life. It’s not who the Alpha was it was what he represented to her in terms of an idealized Hypergamy. That’s not to delegitimize women’s genuine feelings of love, respect and devotion for that Man, but it is to say that all of those feelings are consequences of her impression of an idealized Hypergamy.

There’s a lot being made about how women should or shouldn’t settle for ‘Mr. Good Enough’ before it’s too late. Granted, much of women’s indignation about settling for less than they deserve stems from an overly exaggerated appreciation of their true (and decaying) SMV courtesy of social media and social conventions intended to alleviate the anxiety of the approaching Wall. However, the underlying psychology of that indignation is rooted in women being forced to acknowledge that they’ve reached a point in their lives where they can no longer achieve an idealized Hypergamy.

So the stress responses are social variations of “Don’t tell me I can’t have it all”, “I deserve better than ‘good enough'” or, “Look at (insert aging celebrity’s name), she’s proof that you don’t have to settle.” All of these are pleas for a recognition of an imperfect ability to balance her sexual pluralism.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

83 comments on “He’s Special

  1. I think the feeling of “special” only happens after the fact. Its impossible to know upon meeting who one will regard as special over the course of time. The only thing that really solidifies it is if you mutually choose each other. You select them away from others thereby marking them as special, and, because they become your only source of romantic interaction, they actually do become special. In many cases (not all) one person is as good as the next.

    In a great quote from the Jane Austen novel, Emma, the title character tries to advise her friend on whether or not to accept an engagement. She queries: “If you prefer Mr. Martin to every other person; if you think him the most agreeable man you have ever been in company with, why should you hesitate?” It can be very difficult to determine if a person is the best person you will ever meet. But the act of choosing them makes the chances a lot higher.

    (This whole book is a great read for young girls, by the way, as it follows the mishaps Harriet encounters when she tries to marry up instead of the man she is best suited for and happiest with at the behest of her deluded companion, Emma.)

  2. Man, why you always gotta pick on me? 🙂

    OK, you write:

    she hasn’t considered women’s Hypergamic capacity to make any man into a special man so long as he meets her Hypergamic criteria.

    I don’t necessarily disagree with this. But not every man is capable of meeting that criteria. Hence why I said both the who and the why are important.

    Women will pine for the most significant Alpha they’ve experienced in life.

    Maybe I just get stuck here because I don’t know what that’s like. Still, I don’t disagree, because I keep hearing everyone else say it’s true.

    Even the abusive lout that a battered wife keeps returning to and refuses to press charges on, still represents that Hypergamous ideal to her.

    I get a lot of moral validation for having stayed with an adulterous husband, you know. It’s a pretty good deal actually. Alpha husband plus herd sympathy. Like I’d seriously entertain leaving that gig.

  3. SSM: “Maybe I just get stuck here because I don’t know what that’s like.”

    With all due respect, there are a couple things maybe you don’t fully understand because you haven’t experienced them. (And that is a good thing! 🙂 )One of them is above: it appears you haven’t been left by someone you considered alpha. The second I’m just guessing, because I don’t know for sure, but it also appears you have never lost attraction to your husband despite his indiscretions. Do you see that forgiving a man you are still attracted to is very different than a situation where one has lost attraction for the man?

  4. How is an “Alpha Widow” and a man suffering from OneItis different? Why does a man do that? Some distinction, is a woman is looking into the past with regards to the Alpha, whereas a man is looking forward on a relationship he hasn’t had.

    As I struggle with unplugging, spinning plates and OneItis, I see that, you, Rollo give women a good model to view themselves, not that many care too. But what is the male model? You have mentioned Oneitis is a personality disorder, but I reckon its an evolutionary mechanism as well.

    I read something about the three brain system of attraction/addiction and it mentioned “unrequited love” having an intoxicating cocktail. I propose that the purpose is to keep at trying to be with TheOne. This cocktail wouldn’t exist if it didn’t work at some level or time.

  5. So neither men or women want to date down; like Chris Rock says women don’t want to date down (if her man had a car, she won’t get with a car-less guy, house, no more house-less guys), and men don’t want to fuck down (if he had a skinny freak, no more fat fish.)

    While we share that in common, my take is that on a date or courtship or whatever, when a women perceives a guy is down or not up enough, she sabotages the whole thing. However, if a guy is on a date and perceives she’s down, in his own head he stops taking her ‘seriously,’ but will still keep up the game because 1) he’s invested in the pussy and there’s a solid % he’ll get it and 2) we’re trained not to fail when it comes to getting d in v.

    It’s considered beta for a man to be satisfied with a down chick, but PUA’s practice how to get 9 & 10 women to be satisfied with intrinsically down PUAs. We either:
    – Press buttons to show the 10 she’ll be satisfied with you even though you’re clearly down (the who-you-are charm and chemistry value-add)
    – Convince the 10 you’re up (like Louis CK says)
    – Live the full PUA dream where your “value-add” makes you an up.

    Girls don’t have to practice this framework because if she’s an up she gets fucked or if she’s a down she gets fucked, though not taken seriously. So they have more time to hamster about what they want, thus FI.

    Had a date on thursday, she had a clear up attitude (“I only date the hottest guys; guys have to earn it.”) Back at my place she was lying face down wiggling her healthy butt, pretending she didn’t want it but signaling she wanted me to ‘just take it.’ I didn’t bite- her previous comments showed me she had the feminine imperative tick when I actually think the value-add BS is the most important thing in a relationship so I wasn’t that interested. I also know how that hard-to-get game works, you bite thinking you’re in when she relents a little but it’s actually a 3-4 hour marathon to get it in, possibly multiple days. She ended up puking all over my bathroom, probably to spite me.

    Because I’m a playa I told another girl I was working on about the first date that puked all over my place, but because that’s a preselection story in disguise her buying temp spiked so I scored our first date the next night. Turns out she was actually a down, so I, like I said, knew she wasn’t a ‘serious’ interaction. But my date form was impeccable cause I knew she crappy, which is a whole different story, and back at my place she starting hitting the breaks when I got to 2nd. So I ran my usual thing, no chase from me whatsoever to teach you no reward for boring behavior. She actually panicked, because she knew from the second we met I was a way up (and she was way down), sabotaging the whole thing as an excuse for her to leave. So as a guy you’re fucked either way, if she thinks she’s up or too down.

    While not participating in hard to get signals the right things, I’m actually thinking it’s just the only way a lot of girls know how to play the game. Kind of sucks, but if there’s a girl I’m really interested in I’ll play along, slowlyy progressing, since I know it’s ‘natural.’

  6. I think the advice for women to ‘settle’ ends up being bad for men… b/c the guy the end up with just gets treated badly and is in a financial marriage obligation. When a girl blows you off she IS doing you a favor… I feel bad for guys in previous generations that ended up with women who didn’t love them and got treated like crap their whole lives, at least guys nowadays can opt out of the process.

  7. The biggest problem from my viewpoint is that society is now revved by “what we do”, as opposed to “how we do”. We live in the thrill a minute time of history. Things built to be used then thrown out. If the adrenilin is not running you’re missing life.

    So sad really. There is no depth in this type of life.

  8. Having been on both sides of the alpha widow thing… It’s a hoot. No rhyme or reason to it.

  9. Look at Superman acting like a beta in front of Wonder Woman. It’s just a matter of time before she gets tired of him failing her shit tests and moves on to Batman, the original alpha asshole.

  10. @Marky Mark

    I think the advice for women to ‘settle’ ends up being bad for men… b/c the guy the end up with just gets treated badly and is in a financial marriage obligation. When a girl blows you off she IS doing you a favor…

    This model of marriage (based around “love” and female acceptance/choice) has very little history.

    I feel bad for guys in previous generations that ended up with women who didn’t love them and got treated like crap their whole lives, at least guys nowadays can opt out of the process.

    They actually “ended up” with a source of labor and a mother to their progeny.

  11. “Men are attracted to appearance. Women are attracted to performance.”

    Define performance however you see fit. Women do. Money, muscles, music…. it can be anything but don’t get lazy and just assume it’s money and nothing else. It’s not. A man has to have something going on. He has to be performing and he has to keep performing.

    Try not to get too butt hurt either that a man always has to be performing. It’s a two-way street. I expect women to keep performing on the stairmaster.

  12. Hypergamy doesn’t care about who you are, it only cares about what you are.

    Christ does the opposite. Christ cares very much about who you are, which SunshineMary rightly acknowledges in her blog. However, she implies in the last sentence of her quote that a man’s standing in a woman’s eyes in some way endows him with worthiness as a husband. This is where I believe the proposed response to the Feminine Imperative – i.e. Game departs from Christianity. In short, if Game is a response to the Female Imperative, it cares as much about who you are as hypergamy and is therefore incompatible with Christianity.

    Christian imperatives, I believe, do not extend to complementing the Feminine Imperative or to shepherd it safely, but to vilify it as a perishing product of the world just like the sexual objectification of women.

    Some might say that Game creates worth in men, which is a Christian imperative, and so therefore it’s compatible with Christianity. To that I say this: Game creates an illusion of worth in the eyes of worldly men and women, much like every other status-enhancing product of the world. Christ teaches Christians to do the opposite of this, to uphold truth and the inherent worth of all people irrespective of their worldly status. To Christians, real worth is created by cultivating Christ’s character within themselves.

    Real worth, to a Christian, is also independent of their biological attractiveness to the opposite sex. Christian women are taught to marry not Alpha men with their Alpha seed, but humble and self-abasing men who exhibit the fruit of the Spirit: “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control” (Gal 5:22-23). Similarly, Christian men are taught to marry not the pert and pretty young pew-warmers with good breeding genes but women who exhibit these fruits of the spirit.

    The faithful Christian woman accepts Jesus Christ as her Alpha male, and chooses a husband who’s ready, willing and able to help her submit to Him. Such a husband wouldn’t necessarily be someone himself to whom she can submit, as submission to her husband is what God wants for her in marriage irrespective of her natural proclivities. SunshineMary’s words, while insightful in a secular sense, seem as distant from Christian imperatives as any other attempt to rationalise the Feminine Imperative.

  13. Christian men who take their faith serious are unarmed in the gender wars. You cannot successfully engage with amoral women from a moral stand point and come out with your soul intact.

    None of what I written above is how thing play out in the church

  14. @Shocker.

    Your comments are solid. Even though they may go against “the grain”, I’ve always derived value from reading them. Thanks for the insight.


  15. Good read. Thought-provoking.

    “Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  16. Yeah, I screencapped the foirst few comments from your “Soft Dread” post, primarily for what sunshinemary said. I understood what what being said by her, on my own. I deserve a medal. No really…. ah.. After I read her comment I pretty much closed the web-browser for all that her comment meant. It doesn’t matter WHO you are, but WHAT you do, as it was said. Having known this to be since 2005. I’ll be 25 come harvest time.

  17. Steve Mockey addresses The War Bride syndrome somewhat in The Woman Racket.

    He says the famous phrase “He swept me off my feet” literally comes from an inherent fantasy that women have about being “taken” by another man, literally picked up, thrown over his shoulder, and carried away. And it is derived from the same deep deep psychological basis on which War Brides is based. He avoids calling it a “rape fantasy” but he hints at it.

    Deep in the mind of that woman’s fantasies there is always the possibility that she could end up with a better life than what she currently has, a better man, a richer man, a better looking man, a bigger dick, a more sexy lover.

    Mockey claims it is inherent in women’s romance novels, and they retreat into that fantasy while married, that the better man, that alpha warrior will one day come over the hill, attack that village, and “sweep her off her feet”. It is totally ingrained in women that it is the basis of women’s porn, the romance novel.

    And the psychological ability to accept the price of the death of some loved ones in exchange for this potentially better man or better life is something women are quite adapted to possess and actually even crave.

    There was some mention in this blog some time back, maybe from “The Pet” where you can look in those eyes and see 130,000 years of selective breeding to produce the most calculating, most avaricious, the most cruelly judgmental creature ever to walk this planet.

    And as I look at profile photos, at the photos of models on the women’s magazines I see at checkout stands in stores, I notice this quality in those eyes, this calculating, sinister, cruel, judgmental nature to ALL of those eyes, a quality that is totally lacking in photos of the eyes of men. It is not just some women. It is almost all women.

    Yeah, there is something quite sinister behind those eyes.

    If you haven’t figured it out yet, women are very different from men.


  18. oh come on guys.

    This continuing fascination with the female psyche is proof itself of a beta aptitude.

    Pussy is so 1950.

  19. I always thought it was a plus to take an ordinary man/woman and make them special. Lets face it, most people aren’t so special, but most are good enough, if they get rid of their especially evil immoral tendencies (just a personal opinion). Thus, I always thought it was a plus to pick one among millions and make them special, instead of looking for something no one else has.

    An anecdote. My bf loved other women before me, and some of those didn’t even have a great personality, as he admitted. However, his choices weren’t indiscriminate, so I assume there must be something about that other girl and me. Same happened to me. Still, I can see, in me and him and many others, that people don’t seem to look for specialness in love.

    In short, we like lovers of flesh and blood, not angel dust.

  20. jlw: “Can I add to the mantra? “Alpha fucks, Beta bucks, and Omegas suck.””

    No, you cannot add to the perfection that is Great Books for Men, who invented this phrase!!!! And get it right. It’s “Alpha fux, Beta bux.” lzozozozoozlz. lzozllzozozozoz.

  21. @Jacob Ian Stalk

    Look, God created women to seek after Alpha seed for a reason. And likewise men to go after physical attractiveness. I don’t see either as the result of the fall. It is the curse of eve(struggle to control her husband) and the curse of adam( toil). As well as the general rebelliousness of men against god.

    Don’t disparage god’s design for humanity.

  22. Hm, we all have similar biological instincts to hypergamy. Isn’t the idea to overcome that though? This whole giving women an excuse to act like shit, is just that. An excuse. The only women worth giving a shit about is one who realises her hypergamous biology and rejects it with fervor.

  23. I look on women pining for the greatest alpha they’ve experienced as an almost parallel situation to men talking about their glory-days. It is a mental exercise that reinforces the greatest self-value one has achieved in life. Women measure themselves by the “size” of the biggest alpha they managed to attract in life. Men measure themselves by their accomplishments.

    Kobe Bryant will, for the rest of his life, likely want to chat with anyone about his 81-point game, and any of his 5 rings.

    Likewise, Elizabeth Taylor probably spent most of her older adult life revisiting all the alpha she experienced (a serial monogamist if there ever was one).

  24. If she’s attracted to you, you’re special. Your flaws are minimized, your features are enhanced 100-fold, and the things you do and believe in are fascinating and righteous.

    When she’s no longer attracted to you, that all reverses. It’s basically Hypergamy controlling her Reticular Actvation System. Simple and logical, and you can use it to your advantage.

    I’m out of shape under my clothes, don’t own a car, and have been wearing the same pair of pants for like a year now. She’ll learn these things about me at some point…but understanding the above concept, I simply don’t present those things to her until I know I’ve attracted her with my personality/game. Once she’s “bought in” or “past the hook point”, I can present all these things to her and she’ll minimize them and her RAS will focus on all my good points instead.

    Understanding how to use this concept lets me get away with a LOT…it’s the basis of how I approach shallow stuff like not having a car or money, but also deeper stuff like not being monogamous and expecting her to behave in certain ways.

  25. Thought-provoking article, as usual.

    One question; you write the following:

    “More often than not, in our evolutionary past, a woman’s conditions and environment were not of her own choosing, thus psychological contingencies had to evolve in order for women to maintain a mental and emotional dissonance while still ensuring as Hypergamously optimal a situation as she could.”

    Isn´t this supposed to be “mental and emotional consonance”? If I get your gest then evolutionary speaken previous emotional bonds require severance in order to cope with a radically changed environment, so that would mean that any dissonance needs to be harmonized into consonance.

  26. Maybe this question has been answered before, but sincerely would like to know the answer: how do you get an Alpha Widow to get get through? Is it even possible?

  27. @dahhan:

    By exposing her to even greater alpha. Otherwise, no, it’s probably not possible. Caveat emptor.

  28. @BC

    I probably didn’t explain myself very well.

    Usually, whats is understood as Alpha widow in this context, is some kind of relationship that included high degrees of dread, instilling insecurity, manipulation, narcissim… well, basically a full dark-triad case.

    I guess my question would be something different. Rollo, how do you overcome the memory of a dark-triad alpha, without recurring to those sames techniques?

  29. Rollo,

    I just counseled a man.

    He has been divorced for 4 or 5 years. And he just got suckered back into being manipulated. His ex-wife had a big problem and she was on the phone with him pleading for him to come and solve it.

    He came rushing down, all white night, and took care of this problem all with the hope of rekindling things with his ex. After the situation he was there to solve was well under way and she was sure of the solution, he went to dinner with her.

    And during dinner she slammed him with all this hamsterbation about why she divorced and he said he was stunned. It was like he couldn’t believe the stuff she was saying, things she said he was and did, like it was a totally different marriage then what he was a part of. And she slammed his hopes on reconciliation.

    Today I saw him. And I started and kept going, throwing out the concepts from Rational Male. At first he was resistant, didn’t want to listen and I kept hammering and hammering. And he started stopping with these “aha” moments. Like sorta, “How did you know that happened? How can you explain that?” and “You’re right” and “That explains it.”

    And another man was there, a guy who had known him for 40 years. And the man I was counseling had to go the car for something. I kept talking with the other guy. And the guy I was counseling said, “Wait. Stop until I get back. I don’t want to miss anything.”

    Rollo, this guy had his ass whipped again last night, and all those stress agents, all that depression, came rushing back at him. This is an older man, older than me, and he just can’t go rushing out into bars and find someone.

    And I think, that I had an effect. I think that what I said helped him. He said “You should write a book.” and I said “It’s already being written by the guy I learned this from.”

    I am gonna see him again tomorrow.

    I think you helped this guy. In a big fucking way. Thank you for helping me help another man through a pretty tough time.


  30. Why would you want to get an alpaha widow through it? They are damaged goods and your resources would be better spent else where.

    Plus there isn’t a real rational way women figure who is more alpha. Yes there is game and all, but a chick will think X is more alpha from one man and less alpha from some other man

    Next them and move on to a more enjoyable dating experience

  31. Ballsy writing, Rollo. Philosophically sound and excellent. You could have easily compromised on the truth and your principles, but you didn’t. I see it too much even in the Manosphere. I offer minor quibbles in the interest of refinement of our understanding of truth by peer review.

    “[Hypergamy is] a hard-coded psychological survival script that’s benefitted the human race since our tribalist beginnings.”

    “Primarily I attribute this to the War Bride effect, wherein evolution selected-for women with a psychological facility to adapt to a new dominant male captor as a species-beneficial survival trait.”

    Evolution mechanically rations and recycles limited resources to the strongest replicators with prejudice throughout the full breadth and depth of the compositional hierarchy known as an ecology (in the sense of an ecological complex).

    How about an evolution doesn’t care list?

    Evolution doesn’t care about the human race, any species, any individual, any ecology,…

    “All of these are pleas for a recognition of an imperfect ability to balance her sexual pluralism.”

    Hypergamy does not care about balance or trade-offs; hypergamy wants it all: the most alpha fucks and the most beta bucks.

    Are there any real slavish supermen left?

    lullzllullzuzlzOflulzcourselullzulz, lulzforllulzlulsthelulzsuperlativelullulzlulz WonderlullzWomanlullzlullullzzulzonlylulzzyoululzzarelullzulz, pumpkinlulzspinsterlullzlul!

    @sunshinemary You commented: “But not every man is capable of meeting that criteria [for hypergamous pedestalizing of The One alpha fuck]. Hence why I said both the who and the why are important. ”

    Essentially not true. The best available man, perhaps the best available man who appears capable of reproduction to the woman’s instincts, makes virtually any man potentially The One simply by the absence of men who high enough to be competitive. Hypergamy is relative not absolute, riding and abetting the more strident evolutionary competition of the sex so reproductively cheap we are disposable in feral, acultural sociality, which is precisely why men have evolved into cultural beings and women do not understand civilized men and civilized men can be beta doped by women better than uncivilized men. Civilized men are natural providers not natural gina tinglers, but they will have to become both for mankind to advance much further than the zenith of the West 2.0. This is ground zero.

    @boxsterpaul Maybe Oneitis is a K-selected provisioning strategy? I think it is simpler to see it as the masculine receptivity to female intrigue due to the masculine imperative to systemize and create functional order. If the masculine were not susceptible to manipulation by feminine intrigue, women would not be that way and would not instinctively broadcast the lie of love for reproductive advantage (under feral conditions).

  32. @YaReally Since you have cred from commentary wisdom, you give me hope with the RAS concept. I’m in the no car, no money camp. I’ve pretty much given up until I have any disposable income at all. I’m mid-40s. I don’t know what you are, maybe very athletic, good looking, younger. I will have to work on my persona control. What else am I gonna do? I’m stuck in the life I’ve got.

  33. I dated, and almost married, a hot alpha widow when i was living in Greece in my mid to late 20’s without realising it. In fact, i didn’t fully realise it until i came across the term on rational male last year; i thought the problem was that she was a little crazy and wasn’t ready to settle down. Her bitterness over the alpha that ditched her in her late teens was extreme for a 23 year woman; it is the kind of bitterness i am used to coming across now when i interact with women my own age(34). But the 6 year age gap wasnt the problem; her past relationships set a pattern, and she just couldn’t connect with me in the way she claimed she wanted. All her relatives and friends kept telling me to stick it out and i did, for a while, esp since she was at least 2 SMV points above me, but my efforts were futile and it was simply time wasted.

    I wish guys like Rollo were around back then(2005/2006); i could have really benefitted from their advice.

    This alpha widow ‘syndrome’ is very real, and it is very unfortunate for us men especially, but the sooner we are aware that we can’t compete unless we are alpha as fuck, the better it is for us in the long run. Means we can save valuable time and resources. I wasted 2.5 years of my youth with a woman that was only good for a pump and dump. Like a chump, i took her at her word.

    Never again

  34. Rollo you are basically repating, overe and over here, that women are solipsistic, inherently sexual, primitive and selfish creatures, not really caring about men. While I agree with all this, there remains a big open question? Given this, how could any sane enter into such serious business as marriage with such creature? Hm? Even more, how can you STAY married, how could you live with woman in a commited realtionship, with such knowledge? This knowledge can be soul crushing for ordinary young man in his twenties.

    Its is advantageous to civilization and to the well being of children as well, when men are not fully aware of feminine imperative. Men, with their romantic nature, illusions and sense of manliness depending on how well they are recognized by women, are actually made that way. But men, who really see women for what they are, can not help themselves, but treat women as disposable fuck toys. It is inevitable. The real nature of women has to be a mystery for the man, to enforce him to commit. What is the alternative? Mark Minters and Ya Reallies? When the ratio of such men, not willing to give MUCH MORE, than what they recieve, reaches some point, civilization is completely fucked, my friend.

  35. @ Gregg
    “When the ratio of such men, not willing to give MUCH MORE, than what they receive, reaches some point, civilization is completely fucked, my friend”

    There are a lot more men thinking like this, they are just shamed by contrived social conventions. Being familiar with the aircraft finance industry I was having a conversation with a colleague recently. It was about marriage. In its most basic form a capital lease transfers substantially all the risks and rewards from the lessor to the lessee, the complex asset is transferred from the balance sheet of the lessor to the lessee in a sense its economic substance over legal form. Consider a scenario where the lessee gets all the rewards of the lease but none of the risk and that’s your modern marriage contract, you would not do it in business, bloody sure you won’t do it now.

  36. Females are emotional creatures – simple enough. They’ll do whatever they feel like. In modern environments, there is little reason to be fearful. This change especially affected women in the last few decades with changes in society and technological advancements like the birth control pills. Where there are no setbacks and no danger, the maturation process is halted.

    You can try and reason with a woman until you are blue in the face, usually it won’t work because of how her mind works. A sensual or emotional experience/action works much better. The more society/technology becomes protective about our physical and emotional well-being the less maturation is taking place in people, the last few decades, in particular, women.

    Without dread, nobody’s special enough in the long run.

    Women fall for what they are afraid of – that which isn’t controlled, that which is dangerous, that which does whatever it pleases, that what men used to be, quite a long time ago.

  37. i actually came by to drop a line about a song i was listening to, because it just seems to flow with everything we read here, and this article was posted and seems quite relevant. it’s songs like these that help remind me of sometimes slips to the back of my mind from time to time. this is a story of some uppity bitches pre-judging guys based strictly on a few seconds of seeing him. not that there aren’t gross people out there, but here are the lyrics to scrubs, by tlc…

    “No Scrubs”

    A scrub is a guy who thinks he’s fly
    And is also known as a buster
    Always talkin’ about what he wants
    And just sits on his broke ass
    So (no)

    I don’t want your number (no)
    I don’t want to give you mine and (no)
    I don’t want to meet you nowhere (no)
    I don’t want none of your time and (no)

    I don’t want no scrub
    A scrub is a guy that can’t get no love from me
    Hanging out the passenger side
    Of his best friend’s ride
    Trying to holler at me
    I don’t want no scrub
    A scrub is a guy that can’t get no love from me
    Hanging out the passenger side
    Of his best friend’s ride
    Trying to holler at me

    But a scrub is checkin’ me
    But his game is kinda weak
    And I know that he cannot approach me
    Cuz I’m lookin’ like class and he’s lookin’ like trash
    Can’t get wit’ no deadbeat ass
    So (no)

    I don’t want your number (no)
    I don’t want to give you mine and (no)
    I don’t want to meet you nowhere (no)
    I don’t want none of your time (no)


    If you don’t have a car and you’re walking
    Oh yes son I’m talking to you
    If you live at home wit’ your momma
    Oh yes son I’m talking to you (baby)
    If you have a shorty but you don’t show love
    Oh yes son I’m talking to you
    Wanna get with me with no money
    Oh no I don’t want no (oh)

    No scrub
    No scrub (no no)
    No scrub (no no no no no)
    No scrub (no no)

  38. I think all this talk about hypergamy, alpha widows, and the feminine imperative is good for men… just like we are controlled by our desire for youth and beauty women are controlled by their emotions as well. BUT because of the way society is structured now you can cad it up if you have game and not have to support a family.

  39. I am trying to understand. Sure, my question comes from a recent relationship with an alpha widow who eventually dumped me. She was unable to bond because of that memory.

    But I’m not asking because I wanna fix that. I’m not playing white knight; that relationship is over. But she’s not the first alpha widow I’ve met, and sincerely, I’m tired of nexting girls I like because of that. I have done it in the past, but it’s a mindset that makes me feel like I’m not in control of my own life.

    “Oh, I really like that girl. But it seems like somebody there first. I guess there’s nothing we can do about it, he was way too alpha. I’ll have to find another one. Too bad.”

    It makes me feel powerless.

    This is not about them. I’m not trying to help them. It’s about me, finding a girls that I like, and not being able to be with her because somebody already came and screwed her ability to have a relationship. And maybe it can’t be fixed, but giving up before even wondering if it can be done it’s an attitude that I don’t accept.

    Alpha widow is just a relationship related trauma. It’s no different from watching your parents drown and not being able to help them. But instead of making you scared of water, it makes you become scared of relationships. And like all traumas, some people can be fixed, and some can’t.

    So I’m asking again; the alpha widows I’ve met couldn’t forget the relationship they had with a man. What those men had in common was an attitude that I would describe as the classical dark triad: narcissim, psycopathy, manipulation. Maybe there are widows from more healthy alphas, but the ones I’ve met, and probably most women, are widows from those “dark” men. How do you overcome that memory and repair their ability to bond?

    And please, don’t suggest using the same behaviours. I’ve tried in the past; and they’re pretty effective. But eventually you become someone unable to connect sincerely with other human beings. Great for pump and dumps, useless for relationships. It’s like giving up your taste for a plate of food. You’re the one who loses.

  40. The only way to compete with the former lover of an alpha widow is to be as alpha as you can and use the dark triad to make her more attracted to you… THATS IT. No way you can heal them.

  41. dahhan: Alpha widowhood is the female equivalent of Oneitis. The “cure” is time and experience. Like an obsessive addict, she may become stuck in a mental groove (did you know our thoughts actually make physical tracks in our brains which is why it can be so hard to break out of patterns?) and never get out of it. There really isn’t anything you can do. If she does get over it, it could take years. I tend to think women in this situation are more receptive to beta behavior (the novelty of being treated well) but this won’t last long. So it might be possible to sneak in there with some beta behavior, but then you’ll have to ratchet up some alpha (in the lighter ways) to keep her interest.

  42. “But eventually you become someone unable to connect sincerely with other human beings.”

    Unable to connect with women, you mean. And why would you want to?

    You’re approaching this from a beta perspective. You’re asking “how can I make her forget the big bad alpha and want to be with me forever?

    You should focus on becoming that alpha and discarding any notion of long-term bonds with modern Western women. I consider this just part of being an adult male.

    “The older I get the more I am convinced that, if I am ever to do anything worth a damn, it must be done entirely alone.” – HL Mencken

  43. Butch up dahhan. You have to deal with reality vs how you want things to be.

    I had to next an alpha widow this week. I liked the girl, a lot. she was unbelievable in bed, nurturing out of bed, never cost much money and had her own girlfriend. However, for whatever irrational reasons she was stuck on a man who had a drinking problem and couldn’t get it up on the regular. By any objective standard I am many times the man he was, but she was stuck on him and inconsolable about him dying. I’m of enough value to me to not want to be in second place to any man, let alone someone who never amounted to shit.

    Put a higher value on yourself and next these women who do not value you.

  44. “What is the alternative? Mark Minters and Ya Reallies? When the ratio of such men, not willing to give MUCH MORE, than what they recieve, reaches some point, civilization is completely fucked, my friend.”

    I got to apologize to everyone for fucking over civilization. Sorry.

  45. We are not Powerless!

    The Matrix is a feminine decline that has happened to civilizations over and over again, and it will burn itself out. It will get hotter.

    For the record, it is my pleasure to have this intelligent, uncensored discussion with people who are thinking. I don’t know how to write with a shiny, happy tone. I’m not a shiny, happy person. Not a happy camper, but it’s not you, it’s lots of zombie deadwood enjoying themselves at my expense.

    @gregg wrote: “Its is advantageous to civilization and to the well being of children as well, when men are not fully aware of feminine imperative….But men, who really see women for what they are, can not help themselves, but treat women as disposable fuck toys.”

    What you propose is the ignorance that allowed the banking elite to put us here into hypergamy hell. Ignorance is bliss? Please consider history and correlate Western enlightenment to Western results and lesser awareness to lesser results. To a head-in-the-sand ostrich that will be harvested without consultation perhaps, but not to a man proper. If you are a man, you have a responsibility to wield political power OVER YOUR WOMEN! That is why bros before hoes. Game is all we have for now, not forever. We must harbor our aspirations or be less than our manly potentials by abdication. NOT ME!

    What did men do in the past woth women they controlled? They put chastity belts on their women to maintain their value. A good daughter and a good wife were highly prized because men make culture and civilization, they give women a context to be valuable, elevated, what they cannot do for themselves. Women can be disposable in civilization, but they surely are in the wild state they are socially adapted to live and create, as we see every day.

    It takes a patriarchy to keep chaste and fully potent the potentially civic utility of women from childhood up. A woman’s value is civilized only in the outer context of husbandry, keeping her in her place of civilized form and shape, first the father, then the husband. Women’s reproductive/sexual value is like toothpaste in a tube: you can’t put the toothpaste back in or undo the soiled depreciation of past users. The alpha widow is just a carousel queen with the total imprint deterioration typical of high notch accrual in one epic notch. A woman’s potential is actualized best with one sexual partner ever. Men have actual cultural value, intrinsically. Yes, a double standard, by mother nature.

    @dahhan I hope the above helps show you still have power, if not where you want it. We are fucked in our family potentials, but we are not powerless to fight back by planting the seeds of Western patriarchy that will be better than ever. Game assumes effeminate sociality. Culture is masculine, and when SHTF, sociality will become masculine and our sociality will become actual culture, not this feral cannibalism on the corpse of male culture and achievement. Rival the elite with your brains and your will. That is exactly what they want you to not do.

    @Marky Mark is right about being more alpha as the only way to salvage one of the carousel queens, whether corrupted in one ride or one hundred. Virgin brides were prized and required for a reason. There is no salvaging these women, probable forever. But….

    There will come a time to reassert ourselves politically and to shepherd the feminine value of girls for future husbands and fathers. The battle is looming and unavoidable. The only question is if it will be in our time or close after. Hungry and terrified women will not be unable to bond. But these used up women are used up, and there are always females freshly entering womanhood.

    Men surviving SHTF will be alpha as fuck. Today’s alphas wear skirts by comparison. A Navy SEAL is told what to do, with a JAG on his ass for infraction of feminized Rules of Engagement. Everyone, don’t put too much stock in an alpha race judged by women fat on the cadaver of our masculine heritage. The SHTF alphas will make their dry vagina’s tingle, and they won’t care. Men are the gatekeepers of sex by fighting with and against each other, and women have little choice but to bred with the surviving winners. Feminine civilization is an anomaly. The male winners of SHTF will be alpha as fuck, assuming there are winners not the police state with culled humanity and work camps. We ought to aspire to have our values and philosophy worked out now to have the peace of mind knowing exactly what we choose to do here in the feelings-centric feminine sociality matrix and later in the masculine conflict that is surely coming.

    Why surely? Because there is no such thing as feminine culture. There is only the distribution of female utility among the men who have culture, and the elite bankers are winning big right now. Their greatest risk of vulnerability comes at the time of transition from slavery economics to chattel slavery. An economic collapse is virtually necessary for the triumph of free men in the rank and file, so don’t try to stop it, and don’t be a charitable sucker. Prepare for SHTF if you like, but enjoy the decline as much as possible, considering life expectancy and all. That means guilt free interaction with women according to the value they actually have, not what they presume they have or don’t need to have or we men wish they had.

    Stop the guilt. Stop the helplessness. You do have choices. Hedonistic ones now, civilized ones later, for the SHTF alpha studs who put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Ignorance is NOT the answer. It is the problem. It is the enemy. It is your pain. DISCRIMINATE!

  46. Very timely post for me. The girl I’ve been banging for 4 months has started to go cold blaming being busy.

    I was taken by surprise and though my instincts told me something was wrong, she kept insisting that not meeting up or staying over was because of being “busy”…

    I was being gamed and didn’t realize it. I gave ultimatums: tipping my hand at my frustration. I threatened to walk away and got an “ok” followed by completely meeting up the next day and banging.

    But finally we met up, she was full of anger and sarcasm and after some pleasant banter….

    I did the “soft-next”….I didn’t contact her. It’s been 5 days now and radio silence.

    It’s quite sobering because in some ways, the falcon became the falconer.

    I’ve read through all the various posts here and recalled my own pre-game betaness.

    We all beta backslide. But at the heart of all this is the desire to “have what we perceive we’ve lost”—in reality it’s not the girl, it’s the power we once enjoyed.

    When the falcon becomes the falconeer.

    I keep wondering “Where did I go wrong?” “Was I too aloof?”

    She said “You pushed me away” at some point. But I now see that was a cry either for my comfort or a shit test.

    I reacted…by being more attentive and loving and understanding.

    Result? She only moved further away.

    The no-contact, soft-next freeze out while hard has helped me to understand the true nature of women.

    When they want you, they will make every effort to demonstrate that.

    When, for whatever reason they perceive a weakness, it is time to disappear.

    I read recently relationships are counter-intuitive….meaning when someone becomes less available and loving the “logical” move is to show them more attention.

    But from a game perspective, the opposite is true. We are not dealing with logic, but rather something more primeval, primitive.

  47. thing is, in the past, the alpha was the sexual being AND the provider. So that kinda shoots the theory of war brides down methinks.

  48. @walawala

    Nice job learning lessons from your experience.

    Regardless of your intent in relationships, whether sex or commitment, the most powerful tool we have is rational analysis of our previous relationships. Figure out the behaviors that got the response you wanted, keep them. Figure out the behaviors that didn’t get the results you wanted or damaged the relationship, cut them out.

    doclove had a comment that made me lol over at heartistes:

    Amen. With the obvious but not all inclusive exceptions such as female relatives and wives or girlfriends of male relatives or male friends, if a woman is not ejaculating your penis, then she does not truly love you. With exceptions with good reasons, you will know if a woman truly loves you by how readily, how often and how much of an effort she puts into ejaculating your penis is the corallary. She might like you, but she doesn’t love you unless she ejaculates your penis. Women sacrificing to provide for and to protect men indicates she really loves you too, but this rarely happens as it is what men usually do for women in exchange for penile ejaculations for many millennia of history and pre-history.


    Tried to hit you up at heartiste but stuck in moderation

    I’ve added some new stuff to the archive: http://yareallyarchive.com/

    Making it easier to find comments that address specific topics in teh giant pile of crap is my priority now. I’ve got some ideas but hit me up @ lumpypuaatgmeail. er, gmail.

  49. Totally offtopic but does anyone have any advice to overcoming the ‘butterflies in stomach’ sensation? Pre-redpill i’d have mistaken it for love but I think it’s really just fear?

  50. Young Journeyman.

    Are you describing the preliminaries of a relationship? My opinion is that it is kind of “tough shit”, too bad, comes with the territory.

    My opinion is that it the building up of stress agents, cortisol, sort of like fear, but really stress, the production of cortisol. I had this happen to me, at fucking 57, a few weeks ago and I could literally feel that shit moving into me after a long absence of not having it. My arms were even a little number.

    I think it helps a lot, quite a lot, merely to be aware that this is what is happening, and not falling into the psychological traps that are being laid for you.

    Lift weights. I know that sounds silly. But testosterone is produced by lifting heaving weight and it counteracts the cortisol. Search “lifting heavy weight” in google. Most of it is with your legs. Romanian deadlift, squats, lunges, all with heavy weight, so heavy you fail after 6 reps and that particular muscle is totally used up after 3 sets. Don’t over train, really no more than 2 a week for a particular muscle group or you then begin to produce cortisol.

    The other alternative, and one you probably might not wish to take, is to get away from the thing that causing this to effect you this way, your object of desire.

  51. I was referring to the physical sensation.. which is caused by my attraction to a woman.

    Didn’t know that lifting weights counters it, will rejoin the gym asap.

    Thanks for the advice.

  52. @Young Journeyman

    I’m 25. How old are you?

    Is “butterflies” really a bad thing? Two things for you to think about.

    1. The red pill doesn’t mean squelching your emotions. Butterflies do not need to be overcome. They are a biological reality and biological reaction to deep attraction. I want to say enjoy them, but I know that is fucking hard, so just experience the butterflies without judging them.

    Pre-redpill i’d have mistaken it for love but I think it’s really just fear?

    You’ve already done the hard part! Men mistake butterflies for love because we’re told that’s what that sensation means. That’s just trying to put a label, “love” or “fear”, on an actual physical experience the world induces in our bodies. Beta bitch boys then have a conditioned response to that label of love—buy her flowers and tell her that she’s special. Obviously that sucks. Realize that trying to overcome your “fear” is just another conditioned response to a label. You’ll fuck it up with this girl, if you behave according to a label in your head rather than feeling what you feel and acting on the actual situation.

    Best way to keep banging this chick is experiencing the butterflies and not judging them to “mean” anything.

    For me, becoming more alpha has three steps that I’ve repeated over and over in fractal ways.

    beta behavior -> try-hard alpha behavior -> natural alpha behavior


    text girls needy shit -> be super aloof and unavailable -> convey emotion in text, but without need

    fall in love too easily and declare it too easily -> swear off love entirely -> experience love, but challenge her and don’t do things that destroy attraction

    In your case:

    label butterflies as luv -> try to get rid of butterflies or pretend they’re not there -> feel butterflies, enjoy them, but don’t feel the need to do gay shit because of them

    2. Realize that you’re going to feel this over and over. If you don’t, you need to get with girls that are hotter or more cool. The sensation of butterflies is how you know you’re growing as a man. If the girl doesn’t give you butterflies, she’s not a challenge. You’re just dumping cum, not tightening your game and getting more entitled.

    She knows that she gives you butterflies just a little bit, and as long as you’re a cool guy, that’s a turn on for her too. Fucking awesome.

    Two weeks ago I had a smoking hot 22 y/o 8.5 naked in my buddies pool after a night out. Had my fingers inside her gorgeous warm lil cunt. I was a bit nervous at the start of the night when I met her. At 2am I had the butterflies, but was deeply enjoying manhandling her warm body senseless in a cold pool. That’s the place to be! My buddy pulled her to the bedroom (didn’t fuck her because she had herpes 🙁 found out later). I tried escalating on her 6.5 friend who was also naked in the pool with us. She didn’t give me butterflies. She could feel that and nothing went down. She left after maybe 20 minutes. Butterflies are important.

    That said, just dumping pent up cum into some ok hotness but down as fuck chick is really nice sometimes. 😀

    That’s all abstract. What concrete stuff can you do?

    Mark’s definitely right. Lifting is fucking awesome.

    Also, go find the next girl:

  53. @Young Journeyman

    Fear is a good assumption. Also your thoughts can foster or alleviate that sensation. Try to view yourself as being superior to her. The opposite would be to put her on a pedestal. And you can look at it as a challenge to make yourself tougher.

  54. @Lumpy That butterfly experience may very well be different for you and YJ. In his case it seems to hamper his game while in your case it makes you better at it.

  55. @Lumpy
    I’m 20.

    “You’ll fuck it up with this girl, if you behave according to a label in your head rather than feeling what you feel and acting on the actual situation.”

    If I were to not reject that feeling i’d have a constant boner on every date, i think that’s counter productive to the whole mating dance thing..

    I don’t judge what they mean but I see them as a hindrance that is why I was looking to overcome them because if I do I can control myself better.

    For example when I got her number ( first time approaching someone ) i had a full errection, don’t know if she noticed or not.

    I honestly wouldn’t mind the sensation and excitement.. in the bedroom. The problem is because this is such a radical step in my life I am way too easily excited for now and I think it is holding me back. I don’t care too much about this girl honestly, I am pretty happy that i finally overcome my fear of approach and even got her number but even though i have nothing invested emotionally to this girl even when the thought crosses my mind about a real date I get that feeling..

    I posted the full story to CH but it’s been in approval for the last two days :/

  56. @andrews
    never put a girl on a pedestal. it runs counter to everything we learn. we are the ones to be chased, and they need to feel that. by putting them on a higher level, that means that we are showing them why they should give us the time of day, when in fact, they need to show us why they are good enough to be with us.

    which actually brings me to a relationship question that i was hoping to get some advice with.

    i’ve been seeing a girl for about 7 months now. i love her in the context that we are very close, and she has become one of my best friends, and she is my girlfriend. i’m not in love with her, because i know this is just a chemical reaction, and based on what i’ve learned from people like rollo, falling in love is something that will probably never happen to me again. and i’m ok with that. i’m also ok with the notion that if i’m not in a situation that is not ideal, i’m not bending and sacrificing for the sake of the relationship, and i’d rather not have a girlfriend than have one and be uncomfortable sometimes. that said, i’ve been running some pretty good relationship game, and if i say so myself, i’ve handled her shit tests pretty well. (i say this because now that i’m cognizant of what’s happening, i’m going out of my way to be level headed and emotion free in my responses, keeping the frame with me)

    a situation has arisen recently, and i’d like to get feedback on how i handled it, as well as suggestions on how to proceed. my girl is a little over sensitive. earlier this week, we went out and had a nice evening, came back to my house, and i had to walk my dog before bed. i did so, and when i got back and got into bed, instead of fucking like we were all ready to do before we got back to my place, she tells me that when she comes over, she doesn’t like it that it takes me a while to come to bed after she does. this is actually not the first time she said this, but before it was because i’d be petting my dog and fucking around on my computer, while she would be in my bed waiting. from her perspective, i can see why that would be annoying. so i actually curtailed that stuff and got to bed a little quicker. but this time, she was upset that i was late coming to bed because i was out walking my dog, and then giving him his medicine, and then doing my pre-sleep stuff. she even acknowledged the fact that taking this personally was out of line, but for some reason, she couldn’t kick this feeling, and somehow i should feel bad about it.

    i told her, i have a dog, and a responsibility, and this is how it is, so this is something you need to get over. then she said, get this, that i should at least say sorry that this was making her feel bad. to which i responded that i have nothing to apologize for because i did nothing wrong. then i rolled over and went to sleep. the next day when she woke up before me, she kissed me and said goodbye, and i was merely cordial when she left. later that day, she called me and apologized for what happened. she said she was talking to a friend with a dog, and that she needs to understand how important the dog is, and how it’s like taking care of a son, that he’s part of my life. for the record, she really likes my dog, and helps me with him when i need it. after she apologized, i told her i’m not mad and that i’m over it. this shit isn’t a big deal. trying to show that her shit tests aren’t a big deal. the former me would have gotten all emotional, and i really try to keep that under wraps now.

    this is also not the first time that she’s told me in some way that i’m not giving her what she wants, in terms of affection of some sort. it’s true though, that at the beginning i was keeping my distance, but as i started liking her more, i’ve been more affectionate. which i’m ok with because i like it too.

    the thing is, the night all of this went down, i was crazy tired, as i had a very early morning and didn’t get much sleep. when she came over before we went out, i was out on my couch. she said she really wanted to go out, and i honestly did too, but would also have been fine sleeping. we went out and had a good time. why do i bring this up?

    the fact that i went out while being totally tired went completely unnoticed. as have all the other times when she said she needed more from me. the only time it was ever even acknowledged that i started giving her more, was because i brought it up once when we she brought something up about our relationship. i’m well aware that women don’t notice when we do good things on a more broad scale. making dinner and buying them shit, we’ll get gratitude, but more broad changes for the sake of the relationship, once again have gone unnoticed. i must reiterate the fact that to this point, i have sacrificed nothing, that i also like getting closer. which brings me to my point, and thanks to anyone for reading this book i wrote…

    yesterday i started feeling the lack of acknowledgement and appreciation for being a good boyfriend. while we were at a party, i was slightly cold to her, but was still interacting with her. afterward, we walked down to the beach and sat at the marina, and i told her how i was feeling. i didn’t get emotional, just matter of factly stated some things that were on my mind, about how things are going unnoticed and unappreciated and i gave examples. and not to sound needy, i told her that i’ve been down that road before, and i’m not going there again. trying to get the point across that i’ll bounce if this keeps up. then she told me that she too was feeling this way. however her examples were totally unrelated, and she just said how it could make things better if we planned a few things more together, like how we were supposed to go somewhere a few weeks ago, but because of bad planning, we didn’t. and then another very similar example. a clear indicator of her solipsism. not even really understanding what i’m talking about. when the conversation was over, she seemed like she got out of it what she wanted, and that everything was ok. we came back to my place and everything was nice. woke up this morning and banged, then she left to meet up with a friend. i, on the other hand, don’t feel like anything has changed. i’d prefer if this didn’t end, and i’m not uncomfortable with anything, but i’d like to pull this back completely within my frame. i know she’s totally in love with me, and that i still hold the cards. however this could be a crossroad type moment where if i don’t keep the frame, it will slip away and i’ll be forced to end it. she has a little dread, because she asks me from time to time what i’m looking at when hot chicks walk by, and she has even asked me about other girls that i talk to.

    so there you have the whole picture. i’m interested in other peoples’ outside perspectives. thanks again for reading my book.

  57. @Andrews
    Definitely. You learn to handle butterflies through experience.

    I’m pretty shy. If I have no social momentum, I find it really hard to talk to even random dudes at the bar. If I have momentum, I can pull girls to a dark corner of the bar and make out within 5 mins of meeting. Going out, I’ve been punished over and over for freezing up with fear, so I make myself take action when I’m afraid. I can’t make make myself do it every time, but I never regret going harder.


    It’s kickbutt that you’ve discovered this at 20!

    If I were to not reject that feeling i’d have a constant boner on every date


    She gave you her number because SHE WANTS YOUR DICK INSIDE HER.


    For example when I got her number ( first time approaching someone ) i had a full errection, don’t know if she noticed or not.

    Yes, she noticed. She was flattered and turned on by it. She was thinking about how it would feel inside her.

    The problem is because this is such a radical step in my life I am way too easily excited for now and I think it is holding me back.

    FUCK THAT. Sex is worth being excited about.

    Don’t get me wrong, it says “beta” to a girl when she offers sex and you jump at it like some sort of deprived fuck monkey. But you’ve spent your life so far pretending like you don’t have a dick, and now you have to swing far in the opposite direction before you develop a good sense of calibration. I guarantee you girls are waaaay more sexual and horny than you or society give them credit for, they just don’t want to be judged for it. It’s your personal mission for the next year to make them feel like the won’t be judged and find out just how boy (ie. cock) crazy they are!

    Some little anecdotes:

    • I was at a cigar bar last weekend. Our cute waitress mentioned it was her birthday. Good eye contact while buddy and I paid for drinks. When she checked up on us later, I told her that I’d put a baby in her for her birthday. She said that she couldn’t do that but that she’d suck it out of me instead. Went for the other, hotter, waitresses number and got turned down lol

    • Month ago, my lil bro sees me eyeing a hot 19 y/o redhead with freckles on the street, and tells me to go. I’m a super pussy about daytime cold approach on my own, but I’m good when someone tells me to do it. She’s from out of town. We joke a bit, she can’t eat steak, and she’s a ginger so she must eat souls. I talk to her friends when they come over. Number. Five minute interaction, no sexuality other than electric eye contact and standing about 5 inches closer to her than really necessary. Text afterwards:

    Me: ok no steak. we’ll get drinks and eat souls tonight. :] what part of town y’all staying? -lumpy
    Her: Hahaha only if they are good souls. We are staying in Blah.
    Me: you’re a bad soul? if not I can tie you to my bed and fix that
    Me: buuuuut I bet you won’t even make it out to tonight
    Her: We are here with nothing to do till 10

    I was preoccupied and didn’t follow up. Still, I talked to hot vampire ginger for 5 minutes, texted a joke about tying her to my bed, and she basically said “I’m down, make something happen.”

    • Writer named 60 Years of Challenge has a great section in his book on fully understanding that women are sexual. Here’s an audio version. I like to listen to it before dates.


    I am pretty happy that i finally overcome my fear of approach

    Mad props! Go do it again. 🙂

  58. @Lumpy

    I’m very grateful that I discovered this at my age, especially when I read stories of divorced men.. I’m glad I don’t need to go through that.

    About your assesment of women’s horniness, isn’t it the opposite? Isn’t the media always saying women are sexual, isn’t there the myth of ‘women crave sex as much as men do’ ? There are posts here aswell that detail this for example she’s horny depending on her cycle, women can abstain for much longer periods of time than men etc.

    On the other hand If you can push the right buttons.. I guess you can turn it on in her as opposed to guys being ‘always on’.

    Anyway since this got stuck in limbo at heartiste I’m gonna post it here unedited.


    First, some background info:
    I’ve been a keyboard jockey for the past year since I learned of the manosphere.
    I’m 20 from somewhere east of Austria and west of Russia ( i’m a little paranoid..) , ectomorph ( tall, skinny, babyfaced ) and a virgin. I’ve had few experiences with women and those have been really beta until I found this blog and other stuff like rationalmale, tyler of RSD etc. I’ve been soaking all this information like a sponge, it ALL makes sense to me, i have very good memory especially about the interactions with most of the girls i’ve known that i really liked and was friendzoned by and I can pinpoint exact moments in time and location where I was just so godawfull beta; i think this has helped me a lot since i don’t really need to make the same mistakes again with Game in mind.

    Anyway i intended this as a field report and advice fishing so here goes the story:
    I took the bus from one town to another and a somewhat cute girl ( I’m not really sure I could rate her yet.. I honestly didn’t take a thorough look of her but she’s good looking enough that I want to fuck and that’s all that matters to me right now ) sits next to me. I’ve never came even close to approaching strangers in my life but I just said to myself that it is fucking time I do something about it. I’m not very sociable and I was really tired at the start of the 4 and a half hour bus ride so I just stood there relaxed ( i had to make a concious effort to be so ) and with my eyes closed / looking through the window , contemplating approaching her but I was so fucking tired that I could barely keep my eyes open because they literally hurt if i did so for a couple of minutes so my plan was to just rest for the first 2 hours, get a coffee to jumpstart my brain after that ( halfway through the ride there’s a 20 min stop ) and while doing so I’ll start chatting a bit with her. Problem was she didn’t sit in the restaurant during the stop, she went to the bathroom and got straight back into the bus. I stood outside for the whole time and finished my coffee. After the break I knew i had to do SOMETHING but i just couldn’t get myself to start doing anything no matter how stupid it was so like the awkward introvert that I am I whip out a clipboard from my backpack and start doing some college homework on programming. I know she looked at what I was doing and I’m not sure if this helped my cause or it was neutral in the end but I think it did help a bit.. programming on paper seems extremely complicated to people who don’t know wtf it even means, it’s like an alien language and I do think i came off intelligent even without talking about it even though it came from a place of betatude ( i started it mostly to impress her ). I finally feel that I progressed enough and that I should stop so I do and go back to looking through the window / listening music. At this point in time no words were exchanged, not even a glance at each other.

    Now my internal monolog kicks in and I try to convince myself that it’s not so big a deal if I try to speak to her, this paranoia of mine has had me subconsciously convinved that society will judge and mock me if I ever did approach a girl so I’ve tried to train myself to not give a fuck even if that happens ( my rational brain knows this is total nonsence but it’s just an irrational fear of mine.. ). After about one hour of literally telling myself “DO IT , DO IT, do SOMETHING, doesn’t matter what happens it’s experience, FUCKING DO IT ALREADY” i finally get myself to do it, i take out my right headphone ( she was sitting to my right ) , tap her lightly on the shoulder and this is the ‘conversation’ :

    me : where are you going? ( litteral translation is where do you get off but it doesn’t mean ‘that’ , i didn’t know if she was going to my city or some other along the route )

    her : (suprised, looks to me) *my town name* ( goes back to looking straight at the seat in front of her )

    me : (small pause) what were you doing in *town we left with the bus*?

    her : (looks to me again) I was coming from the airport ( same as before ).

    me : oh, so you’re going to college in another country?

    her : no, i already finished college ( terse.. )

    me : (fake laughter, i don’t know what came to me it was so fake i feel like punching myself for it ) really? ( i don’t know if this came off a little beta, it seems like a compliment but not a really big one )

    her : yes ( again terse answer, goes back to playing with her thumbs on her purse’s straps and looking in front of her )

    At that point i felt that any more questions would be going into needy territory and if she wanted to have a conversation she’d do so without me badgering her so I shut up and go back to looking through the window.

    I felt so fucking good for having overcome my fear, i wasn’t “giddy” about it like super big smile and everything.. i was just amused by my first approach and was happy the universe didn’t collapse , no one laughed, she didn’t mock me etc.

    I was like this for the remained one hour and a half to the final stop. I felt that she was feeling really awkward all this time but I knew that me feeling good about myself was something.. good and part of feeling good was that I felt good and she felt awkward since it “should” be the other way around in the beta mindset.

    The final stop comes where both of us have to get off the bus. I was feeling so good that I said to myself “fuck it, might aswell get her number what’s the worst thing that can happen? she says no? who gives a fuck i’m feeling good” so here goes the last part , sadly i can’t remember this perfectly as i was partly shell shocked

    me : (outside of the bus, i go to her ) So aren’t you going to give me your number?

    her : ( flustered ) well..

    I get my phone out ( very cheap phone with normal keyboard ) and give it to her telling her to put her number in , after i “shove” it in front of her I also tell her “I suppose you still know how these keyboards work, afterall you did FINISH college..” ( she had a smarphone ). She doesn’t say anything, doesn’t take the phone but tells me her number is kind of new and she’s not sure if she knows it by heart but nevertheless slowly blurts it out. I put it in, ask her what’s her name and call the number and surely enough her phone rings. Now I tell her “allright, I’ll call you” and proceed to walk away. I didn’t think to give her MY name so she asks me about it, tell her my name and walk away.

    Right now the shell shock is half wore off and I realize i have a raging boner but I don’t give a flying fuck, I realize that it shows through the pants and am a little annoyed by the head of my dick hitting my thigh and the very uncomfortable position of it but i didn’t think adjusting it while she might still be looking at me from behind would be very good. ( like, if I was alpha and had beded a lot of women more beautiful than her why the fuck would I get a boner from getting her number? ) .

    You might be thinking, nice story but this last part confirms you’re a troll but i am honestly not making this stuff up.

    Now I don’t really care if it works out or not, I take this as a huge victory and a step forward no matter what happens from here on out but this thinking can also be limiting.. like I should atleast do my best to try to sleep with her not just give up now because ‘it doesn’t matter what happens’.

    Considering the part of the world I’m from and that women aren’t even remotely as bitchy as the women protrayed by CH and most of USA manosphere I don’t think I should wait very long to call her and set up a date besides I feel that the way I’ll do it is far more important than the precise time I wait. What do you think?

    If I actually schedule a real date and she doesn’t flake I’m a little worried about my excitement levels.. if i got a boner just from looking her straight in the eyes and seeing ( what looked like ) that deer in the headlights look wtf will happen on the date? I know that you can play it off and she might even be into it but I don’t think a constant boner or even a very early boner ( after I hug and kiss on the cheeks when we meet ) would serve me very well… Can this be solved by such simple means as a fap before the date?

  59. Rollo
    Hypergamy doesn’t care about who you are, it only cares about what you are.

    This is why sliding into betatude kills LTR’s and marriages, and this is why Athol’s MAP or some version of it works

    Women lacking the mental capacity for selective, impersonal indifference to men would’ve been selected-out, either by debilitating emotional breakdown or by her new captor’s disregard for her provisioning.

    This is important to understand, although it can be a difficult or bitter truth. Yes, AWALT. The woman who is LTR / married to a man descending into betatude starts shit testing him, and if he’s an AFC then he responds by ever more niceness. The natural result is her respect fades, and contempt grows. If she’s aware of these facts, she might be able to control it.

    To a man, this shift looks a lot like budding treachery and betrayal. If he can revise the situation, via MAP or some other method, then he should be able to see her backing down on the contempt – and he must then begin to smack it down. If she persists, either he punishes it enough that she modifies her behavior, or he walks away.

    And when a man walks away, he’s gone forever.

    Women should be aware, by the way, that her betrayal can lead in time to the opposite of love in him. When a man decides she cannot be trusted, he becomes indifferent to her. And unlike a woman, a man who has become indifferent will not be swayed or turned. Once he decides she is not worth listening to, all her tears, anger, fears, wheedling, importuning, etc. will be of no avail. None of it will move him. Because he no longer cares.

    That’s where shit testing to destruction leads, women, so either learn to control yourself, or be prepared to live the second half of your life alone.

  60. I know this is extremely late in the cycle of this post. But these post are either very timely or I bump into stuff that reinforces these topics.

    Bear with on this. And do read the link I post below. It is most reinforcing and explains a lot about the two key recurring Rollo ideas, War Brides and Alpha Widows.

    Take these two key concepts, this War Brides one and Alpha Widows. In essence that are very closely related and I think I might have found the tie.

    So back when I was in post divorce pain, I bumped into this song by Faith Hill. I say bumped into because I must emphatically claim that I DO NOT LISTEN TO FUCKING COUNTRY MUSIC. Lets get that fact straight.

    But this song “Like we never loved at all” by Faith Hill just struck me because it was exactly what I was experiencing. I could not believe how fucking cold that women can be and these lyrics seemed to express that.

    Here is the video.

    Now, the interesting thing is that since a woman is singing it, then it comes off as a lament of an alpha widow.

    Keep in mind that the song was written by two men.

    That is important. In no way can a woman empathize completely with War Brides. She can get pumped and dumped. She can experience the one that got away, but I do not think that War Brides is a common experience that women have. The Blues are a musical form unique to men. Women have torch songs. “Holding out that Torch” for that alpha they pine after.

    But even in this video, the alpha is nothing like the War Bride, he doesn’t completely act as if he never loved her, in the way a woman will act with a man. And of course it has that aspect that women love love love “He wants her back”.

    But the point is that War Brides and Alpha Widows are two sides of the same coin. And very closely related only in hypergamous results as a function of the actions of the woman

    Now I give you a key seminal essay from one of my new favorite writers. F. Roger Devlin.

    First, any fucking writer that uses his first initial has to be bad ass. It just screams “Writer”. My middle name sucks the big one so I can’t do it. This guy kills. He was the subject of Manboobz slam on May 13. And Manboob is not always lazy as he is when he slams me and needs a quick blog. Often he takes on big fish because the work is quite crushing to women and the “Boob has to address this man and Mr Devlin is starting to get around. So he is just starting to percolate up and around even though the dates on a lot of these essays are 2007-2009. And given those dates, the man seems most ahead of his time. The topics are not new to many of us and some of the info is known to us. But heck, where were you in 2007? The only Red Pill I was taking in 2007 had M&M on the side of them. I have even previously copied phrases from some other location to use and then later I found were originally in F. Roger Devlin writings.

    So here it is. It is called “Rotating Polyandry”

    (from the “Don’t Marry” website and I can see why they posted this particular work because it blows holes in the institution in a way every rant I ever made, all put together, cannot)

    So in the essay, Mr Devlin speaks of something we all have read, the 4 year cycle that women go through from first meeting a potential mate, into sexual relations, pregnancy, first, early child rearing before she is, once again, sufficiently “re-sexual” and independent. And then she then cast about for “new blood”, “new prey”.

    Society tells women that they are naturally monogamous and men are dogs that seek sex, that women naturally seek commitment and make wise choices in mates, and men are dogs that do not wish to commit.

    (Ok, frequent readers of the manosphere need to stop laughing right now. I need to continue and you are distracting the others. )

    But you need to read the essay. Especially you, young journeyman. It will cure those butterflies for sure. But I can only speak of a fraction of it as it relates to War Brides and Alpha Widows.

    Mr Devlin is reviewing a book during this essay, Michelle Langley’s
    book, Women’s Infidelity. Ms. Langley is a “lay” woman of no particular academic background, who about the end of her 4 year cycle began to experience two things (1) a significant dissatisfaction with both her marriage and her husband (2) erotic attraction to other men. And she was surprised that she had such feelings since she was “naturally monogamous” (stop laughing). So she talked to some other women and began researching. She interviewed 123 women and 76 men and these are her findings.

    She discovered that women experience these feeling and they are quite common. And all begin to despise their husbands. Many because they were in a mad rush to marry, they overlooked faults that he might have displayed. Upon marriage they stop overlooking them.

    And many women, through no fault of their husband, resent the fact that they loose attraction for him. It must be his fault because she is naturally monogamous (Stop fucking laughing) Mr Devlin says this is coupled with Feminist indoctrination to lead the women to seek revenge and retribution on their husband with such cruelty to the point that many men describe their wives as Evil.


    Let me say it again. Evil. Fuck I love saying it. Evil. I would personally use that word to describe my ex-wife. Evil. Keep in mind that this is Michele Langley using this word, not a butt-hurt beta as I get called, but Michele, my belle, saying words that go together well, migh-hi Michelle. A woman. Saying Evil Woman. (Wasn’t that a song? Or two? Or a million? “Soul of a woman was created below” -Dazed and Confused. Hmmmh)

    She says the woman can go one or two ways. And those two ways are (take a guess),

    War Brides and Alpha Widows. (Answered by the liquor distributor at the back of the room)

    Meaning Michelle, my belle, says they either revert into a fantasy life and remain in their marriage OR they act on it.

    And fucking cheat. (I refrain from using the word Evil again. No I won’t say Evil)

    And if she cheats she gets a double dose of those lovely chemicals that are tormenting our Young Journeyman, except she gets it coated in Sin Fun and many of these women state “they never felt more of a woman, never more alive”. And they get fucking addicted to it.

    And if they cheat, they might do one of two things (1) Stay and rip the skin off their husband and they cuckold him because they fear the loss of security and income he provides. Or they leave, War Brides style.

    And of course, once they get where they were going, the whole cycle starts again, and she arrives at the same place with Mr New-and-Exciting and she bores of him after the cycle runs its course.

    And Mr Devlin says that she could have saved everyone a lot of trouble if she just would have stayed where she was. Especially her children.

    And he also says that if women fully understood they are not naturally monogamous and are prone to feel as they do, that perhaps monogamy could actually happen in that could separate love and attraction, and not confuse the two. (I say “pipe dream” because after all, they are Evil)

    So, I derived from Devlin’s writing that our hypergamous girl, (who I won’t call Evil Girl because I have used the word Evil quite a lot so I won’t say “Evil girl” even thought I personally think “Evil girl” but I hate to wear out the word Evil by saying Evil so much), is standing at the point of dissatisfaction in her husband because her natural hypergamy is causing her to do so. She may repress it and become an Alpha Widow as she idealizes some prior “drug habit” with some other man she had experienced or she goes all full out War Brides and acts on it.

    Now, one last thing. I have many F. Roger Devlin essays to read so I am little busy. I would ask that if one of you that has the time then you might do me a favor and visit that Don’t Marry website and then come back and let me know ….

    if I shouldn’t marry.

  61. @twan

    Yes, it’s always a bad idea to put women on a pedestal, unless you feel kinda self-destructive. But then, why not shoot oneself in the foot? – while we are at it. haha

    I’ve read through your chapter.
    To quote N. – “Little doth woman understand otherwise about honour. But let this be your honour: always to love more than ye are loved, and never be the second.”

    So in other words she should always love you more than you love her. Additionally, be careful not to overestimate her love, a lot of men tend to do that.

    We live in a crazy world. Game works. It works because it circumvents the conscious part of the female mind which has been infested with Oprah and “You go girl!” shit. It works on her primal mind parts, those which are resistant to the input from crazy town.

    So you have at least a relationship with the cave girl part of your girlfriend’s mind. It sounds a bit like you want more.

    Is she capable of more? That’s the thing I’d consider.
    It’s in part depending on your influence and who she is.
    In today’s relationship world, you have to run a very tight ship with most girls. Often there is not much room for fuzzy feelings on your part.

  62. Mark M : I dunno, “Evil” to me implies some sort of moral choice, some element of choice and conscience. The foul and vicious things women delight in are no more “evil” than, say, the “joy” a parasitic wasp gets from stinging a caterpillar and laying its eggs in the living corpse. Or lampreys battening onto a passing fish.

    They do what they do, and to sentient beings these things are pretty repulsive. But it’s not as though the wasps, lampreys or women could even begin to consciously reflect on the moral status of their actions. They simply lack the capacity, biology dictates, and overrules any inconvenient intellectual processes as irrelevant.

    And that’s all you’ll ever get back from a woman, any woman, when asked to consider the appalling carnage resulting from their or any other woman’s eternal self-indulgence and thrill-seeking, even to the point of destroying their own offspring. An offended stare, and “What?” [chew chew] “What are you looking at?” [munch slobber] “It’s my Right” [belch].

    I now try to ensure that I’m more agile, taste nasty, and bite back hard if the nibbling starts. Crunch! Yum!

    Can’t wait for R’s book, as I have a feeling that both sons are going to need some work of reference rather more cogent than Dad’s infrequent and carefully de-soured remarks very very soon, as at least one appears to be getting into a full-on LTR at college, and both have had the fembot guff shoved down their necks 24/7 since K. By proper UMC, doc-marten-wearing, buzzcut urban fembots. And the BBC.

    One is too smart, and calls crap where he sees it, in a pretty inconvenient and uncivilized way, sometimes; can be embarrassing/hilarious lol. Gets away with it because he’s ferkin massive, and works out constantly. (His idea, not mine. Worry about his epiphyses, heart and so on, but hey, you tell him. It’s kinda hard acting the patriarch when you’re eyeball to shirt-pocket with him, and I’m not short, unfit or skinny) but the college one might end up getting turned over, he’s too fairminded and philosophical for his own good. Good news is she’s fairly seriously religious (for a brit, that is; i.e. has some vague idea of the acceptable no. of gods, doesn’t worship trees and so on), although we’re definitely not. Apart from Santa and the Tooth Fairy of course. Sshhhh.

  63. So, along the lines of this post, I have a story. I hope someone with some good experience with game is still watching this thread.

    My friend is nearing retirement. He’s an engineer who did very well for himself, and married a wife who earned quite a bit herself. When he married this woman, she already had a 5-6 year old daughter. My friend raised this daughter as his own, she’s essentially the only father she’s ever had. Her biological father is a total loser, who while older then 40 (I don’t know his exact age) is still entirely homeless and couch-surfing with people he knows.

    This daughter is now 19 years old. She had a boyfriend who she liked for a while, but then he went beta (As so many of us have done), and she suddenly felt “bored” with him and ended it. She then went into young-adult-female-crazy-phase and decided that a homeless, jobless, social-security-cardless, no-drivers-license, but-still-has-money-for-tat’s guy was the guy for her. He’s a loser who probably has 3-4 girls (based on his facebook page) who he does this to. She’s being gamed. The guy is probably too stupid to actually know game that well, but he knows if he keeps acting disinterested and negging her at appropriate times she’ll continue to dote on him. Her parents are not at all familiar with red pill knowledge, though they life their lives this way (generally).

    So my question is… how would you “un-game” the daughter?

  64. How old is this BF geezer? About the same I guess? I’ve no advice to hand (well I do actually, loads, but being me, it’s ill-considered, uncivilized and absurdly impractical) so the only thing I can think of that won’t result in a worse mess is they should chuck her out. The parents that is. Assuming of course that they have half a clue as to what’s going on.
    Focusses the mind wonderfully well, abject poverty.
    I don’t suppose there’s any prospect of getting her sent to college hundreds of miles away? Even the Carousel is a safer bet than ending up with a habit and being pimped by this bell-end. How long d’ye reckon before he goes to jail anyhow? Can they afford to wait for Nature to take its course?
    Oh and former Steady Eddy BF should get himself a new squeeze ASAP, goes without saying. Be quite mercenary about it. And be seen out and about with her in the car. A lot. Not necessarily in front of U No Hoo, too obvious, just her ‘friends’ and relations.
    Convertibles, if affordable, are ideal for this sort of caper, even if they are a bit silly and should be sold on in October regardless.

  65. text game with girl I’d been banging…first time I ever showed any emotion….

    Me: you were the first person i thought could make me believe in love again. I was wrong.

    Her: you are selfish, i needed you to comfort me and care for me . YOU LOVE YOURSELF. you don’t care about others.

    Me: 24 hours later: ya…the guy your mom warned you about.

    The other day I blew off a party at a club event I had co-created but which I couldn’t attend due to work. In my facebook I’d hinted i would be there.
    She never usually went but i had introduced her to it months ago.

    I look over the photos from the event…and bingo…she showed up…dressed like a catwalk model…

    And i wasn’t there. Interesting…. previously i’d asked her to come out…but she had been “busy”…

  66. @Tam the Bam

    …well I do actually, loads, but being me, it’s ill-considered, uncivilized and absurdly impractical

    The father has money, loads of free time, and is considering a shovel as a solution, your ideas can’t be that bad.

    …they should chuck her out. The parents that is.

    They’re one rule break away from that very thing.

    Can they afford to wait for Nature to take its course?

    Maybe, but no one is certain this guy is not stupid enough to accidentally get her pregnant, and that can happen in any random 1-2 minutes.

    Oh and former Steady Eddy BF should get himself a new squeeze ASAP, goes without saying. Be quite mercenary about it. And be seen out and about with her in the car. A lot. Not necessarily in front of U No Hoo, too obvious, just her ‘friends’ and relations.
    Convertibles, if affordable, are ideal for this sort of caper, even if they are a bit silly and should be sold on in October regardless.

    ^^^^ That is something I had not considered suggesting to my friend the dad… He might be up for arranging something like that, even if the new squeeze was for hire.

  67. Do men want women who they know love having sex with them and present no conscious Game? Who are straight up and let the guy know they don’t have to do anything to get laid; the woman loves sex with them and that thwy can cut the crap and just get after it? Is it too wasy for them that they lose interest?

  68. Pingback: Dominance |

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