Too Hot

too_hot

Over the Christmas break I had Dalrock and several SoSuave members alert me to a recent story about the firing of a dental assistant for “being too attractive”. I’d thought it was pretty laughable at first glance, but there’s a lot more going on in this situation than just what’s on the surface here. Naturally the fem-centric media starting point is the egregiousness of the all-male Iowa high court unanimously agreeing that a woman could be fired for something other than her job performance. It’s always interesting to observe the legal twistings when when the feminine imperative smacks into a law it hasn’t yet distorted to its own purposes (like right-to-work laws). I’m sure the case will be taken up the chain to even higher courts, but the operative will be the same – women don’t want to be beholden to general laws that conflict with the feminine imperative. Give it time and new definitions of what constitutes sexual discrimination, and you’ll see how fluidly the imperative achieves its ends.

Beyond the indignation prompting social fallout, there’s an interesting illustration in Game theory here. Melissa Nelson, a semi-attractive 32 year old dental assistant has her 10 year employment stint terminated by 53 year old Dentist, James Knight for representing too tempting a  potential lover and too potential a threat to his marriage. This is where it gets interesting:

Nelson, 32, worked for Knight for 10 years, and he considered her a stellar worker. But in the final months of her employment, he complained that her tight clothing was distracting, once telling her that if his pants were bulging that was a sign her clothes were too revealing, according to the opinion.

Well, considering all she wore were standard issue medical scrubs it would appear that it didn’t take much to arouse the good dentist.

While her former boss claimed her clothes were so tight he couldn’t look at her without being aroused, Nelson said the only outfit she wore to work was standard scrubs worn by many nurses and assistants in dental offices.

Think about this for a moment, when Knight hired her 10 years ago she would’ve been 22 and he would’ve been 43. Looking at the more recent pictures of Nelson, I can see she’s followed the standard SMV curve, and while I wouldn’t rate her higher than maybe a cleaned up HB7, no doubt Knight was privy to watching her progress from her SMV peak at 22, to the inevitable two child, postpartum “chop it short” mommy-do at 32. After watching this and enduring the slow-burn, sexual pangs for a decade I suspect that Knight probably spent in inordinate amount of masturbatory energy on her mental image.

He also once allegedly remarked about her infrequent sex life by saying, “that’s like having a Lamborghini in the garage and never driving it.”

No doubt about, we’ve got a beta here. Blatant and obviously telegraphed sexual interest ham-fisttedly delivered  as a compliment not only belies the beta, but no woman in human history has ever responded positively to it. In all my time counseling in the manosphere I’ve heard some derivative of this line constantly used by beta orbiters hoping that their ONEitis will get the message that she’s not being treated as well as she should be, and he’s uniquely qualified to appreciate her for her rarity. What chumps like Knight don’t get is that genuine desire and sexual impulse cannot be negotiated.

All a long-married beta like Knight is doing is falling back on his adolescent social skill set. This is the hallmark of a chump who’s never developed his Game beyond what it took to convince his wife to marry him.

Knight and Nelson — both married with children — started exchanging text messages, mostly about personal matters, such as their families. Knight’s wife, who also worked in the dental office, found out about the messages and demanded Nelson be fired. The Knights consulted with their pastor, who agreed that terminating Nelson was appropriate.

Once you see the pictures of Mrs. Knight all of this crystalizes for us.

mrs_knight

Now we add in the element of Mrs. Knights suspicion and a healthy dose of parochial shame from their pastor (most likely at Mrs. Knights behest) and we see the good dentist moved to terminate “just an ordinary mom”.  Here we see an all too common theme of the feminine imperative; using men to settle a score between women. My guess would be that had Mrs. Knight not discovered said texts, Nelson in all her ‘hotness’ would still be employed.

Knight is a very religious and moral individual, and he sincerely believed that firing Nelson would be best for all parties, he said.

I generally reserve my interpretations of the religious ramifications of Game to blogs like Dalrock’s, but at the risk of encouraging the moralist commenters on my blog, I have to draw attention to how the feminine imperative influences religious perceptions. This very religious and moral individual in all likelihood had been devising scenarios in his head about how he might engage in some kind of sexual tryst with Nelson through out her peak SMV years. He watched her progress through a relationship, watched her get married, gave her maternity leave when she had two kids, and still he pined. That pining only ended when Mrs. Knight demanded Nelson’s termination. Once again, biology trumps conviction, and did so for a decade, but once his back is to the wall he makes necessity a virtue.

Knight fired Nelson and gave her one month’s severance. He later told Nelson’s husband that he worried he was getting too personally attached and feared he would eventually try to start an affair with her.

When you compare James Knight to David Petreaus’ situation you can’t help but notice some surface level similarities. Both married to well-past the Wall wives and open (at least ideally) to getting with younger, better looking women. Their stories are an all too common theme in today’s SMP. Just based on what I see from the pictures, Knight strikes me as that archetypal mature guy who married young (well before fully realizing his true SMV), played by the rules, and probably only woke up to his SMV when a hot 22 year old made him realize his past potential. When a guys like this make sexual allusions comparing undriven Lamborghinis to the objects of their sexual desire, the real message is their own sexual dissatisfaction with their wives. Harboring that angst for 10 years while your ‘too hot to work with’ ONEitis is only infrequently getting banged is a special kind of beta hell.

When I wrote about the redefining of men’s mid-life awareness, Knight’s circumstance is the uglier side of that.

The truth about men’s mid-life crises isn’t about recapturing youth, it’s about finally understanding the trappings they’ve been sold into through their 20′s and 30′s and coming to terms with that often horrible truth. Some men do in fact buy the sports car, get the new hottie wife or act in some fashion that appears reckless and irresponsible. This isn’t due to infantilism, but rather new understanding of their own position as men. They’ve “lived responsibly” for so long and for so little appreciation that when that true realization is made they feel the need to move. They’ve become respected, put in the hours, the sacrifice, the censoring of their own views. They realize now that they’ve sold off true passions in favor of maintaining what others have told him was his responsibility – whether it was his choice or not. And all for what? A fat wife? A shrew? Maybe even a fantastic marriage and a wonderful family life, but also a nagging doubt about not seeing enough of the world by 40 because of it.

Now, before it gets said, I’m not suggesting that Knight have gone ahead and got after it with Nelson (if that was ever a consideration), but I do understand his predicament and the motivators behind it. If anything Knight serves as yet one more warning for men in realizing their SMV too late. The real tragedy here is that for a brief moment Knight was becoming aware of his (waning) SMV only to reinsert himself back into the Matrix with the aid of his wife and pastor. The real damage will be dealt in his new need for constant repression of this knowledge every time he bangs his wife, every time she nags, every time she gives him that doe-like thousand yard stare; he’ll understand the oldest manosphere proverb – once you know about the Matrix there is no going back.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Bob Wallace
Guest

I knew a guy who fired his ex-lover because of course it was impossible for him to be in her presence. He didn’t hate her. He was still in love with.

And damn if her firing didn’t catch her unprepared. She didn’t see it coming.

Common Sense
Guest
Common Sense

So the only solution to the Dentist’s and Petraeus’ predicament: cheat on your wife. The Manosphere should be pushing men to cheat. Stay married for the sake of kids, as kids grow up best adjusted in two parent homes. But the man in the prime of SMV deserves the rewards he spent two decades trying to achieve. In this world – YOU MUST CLAIM YOUR OWN REWARD. Because the world surely isn’t going to give you what you deserve. Rollo, you need to have some balls and start encouraging men to cheat. That IS being a “Rational Male.” You’ve come… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

What’s interesting is that every article I’ve ever read about how having an affair actually strengthens a marriage was written by a woman, specifically for women, and published in media that caters almost exclusively to women.

The Other Jim
Guest
The Other Jim

There was a case from a couple of years ago similar to the one described above; http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/debrahlee-lorenzana-sues-citigroup-claims-bank-fired-sexy-article-1.178086 0 Here are more photo’s of Lorenzana who despite her whining seems very aware of here own SMV: http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003635-19.html Women, at least, youngish attractive women like Ms. Lorenzana are always aware of their own attractiveness and how to use it, negotiate the work place, and in the end get what they want often at the expense of doing the hard work in any company. I’m sure everyone has had their own experiences. In contrast, fat, old, and unattractive women don’t have that advantage… Read more »

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

I see Common Sense is swallowing the whole red pill. Some of us are trying to chew that shit like a Flintstones vitamin. Down it with vodka and enjoy life.

amscheideweg
Guest
amscheideweg

I agree with Common Sense. If Women ride the carousel during their peak SMV years, men should sack up and ride their own version of the carousel during their late thirties / fourties.

I mean, what’s the worst that can happen? Divorce ? That’s a big risk anyway, if you cheat or don’t. Actually going through with cheating on the other hand should work in the favor of a game-aware man (DHV).

taterearl
Guest
taterearl

“What’s interesting is that every article I’ve ever read about how having an affair actually strengthens a marriage was written by a woman, specifically for women, and published in media that caters almost exclusively to women.”

Well if a women wrote it then it will lead to a divorce.

John Galt
Guest
John Galt

Another fantastic post. Rollo – please consider writing more of these “current event” posts that reinforce previously posted concepts. Theory meets practice, its a great way to learn.

CassMan
Guest
CassMan

Finally, It has taken many months to find a viewpoint I strongly disagree with in the Manosphere, and here she is. I do not advocate infidelity / deception when inside the confines of a committed, monogamous relationship. Morality and ethics are not characteristics that are identified through gender. A husband cheating on his wife is no more or less moral than a Wife cheating on her husband. If you want the ability to game Women to your hearts content, you go for it and enjoy it Good Sir, it is your right in this world. If you want children you… Read more »

taterearl
Guest
taterearl

I do like the idea that a wife should be a whore for only her husband…and a husband should be an alpha only to his wife. Nothing good ever comes from adultery.

CassMan
Guest
CassMan

Certainly ‘not judging’, rather.

If you are a Man over 30 that understands his own SMV, is there a logical reason for a Man to marry a Woman well over 30?

Children can be provided to you from a younger, more physically attractive Woman. Other than the knowledge you will have to compete your hottiie wife’s increased hypergamy, is there a universal downside to marrying a younger Woman?

Other than the obvious benefit of additional life experience, I really do not see much reason for optimism for Woman over 35 in North America right now, at all.

CassMan
Guest
CassMan

“Nothing good ever comes from adultery” This has been my conclusion so far going through Life. The benefits of fresh ass being plundered in a high-risk, low-reward fashion like adultery just is not powerful enough for me to get involved in. Even in a LTR, after enough investment has been made I will not go cheat on her, I do not see the point. If she isn’t offering me what I need, I tell her. If she doesn’t care, I move on and now i’m ploughing another Woman to my hearts content, or better yet I forego the LTR and… Read more »

Vicomte
Guest
Vicomte

Advocating infidelity is a ridiculous concept. As others have stated, if you want to fuck around, do not enter into a presumed monogamous arrangement. There’s something incredibly pathetic about infidelity for the simple reason that it can all be entirely avoided by refusing to make an unnecessary commitment you have no interest in in the first place.

Some people around these parts have an insanely convoluted view of ‘red pill’ philosophy. One has no need to work the system if one does not enter into that system.

KK
Guest
KK

I find it interesting that although the manosphere viewpoint on events such as this still comes across as somewhat inflammatory and controversial, it has been a part of the cultural undercurrent all the time, even in the middle of the 90’s that is sometimes portrayed as the era of Peak Feminism. I caught a glimpse of an old Ally McBeal rerun while visiting my father and the episode had a very similar subplot. One of the nice-looking lawgirls was being transferred to a different department against her preference due to pressure from her boss’s wife. The sexual competition angle was… Read more »

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

You guys are playing word games at this point. Having a wife and chicks on the side, having a babymom and various girlfriends, or deciding to have kids without the promise of monogamy, are all means to the same end. A man can and should give his children a two-parent upbringing without participating in monogamy, especially with a woman whose SMV is rapidly decreasing. Whether you call it infidelity or open marriage, or “spinning plates” or whatever, these are all just terms to describe how much “permission” you’ve garnered from your child’s mother. I don’t advocate dishonesty personally, but that’s… Read more »

Tarl
Guest
Tarl

Those tattoos on his upper arm are grotesque.

Survivorman
Guest
Survivorman

Only slightly O.T. (and just to stir the pot a little); I have a cardiologist friend that has hot Asian wife, 2 great kids, a palatial home in a nice part of town, AND a mistress on the side — all out in the open.. no deception whatsoever! Everyone involved seems OK with the arrangement, and this has been a stable situation for many years. He isn’t what I’d call “alpha” – but obviously pulls in pretty decent coin, and he’s enjoying the benefits of his station in life. He’s a man of integrity, IMO – ’cause everything’s on the… Read more »

wdplant
Guest

Another very good post Rollo. Keep it up please!!!
I love your logical analysis of such situations from a man’s point of view. Too often in the regular press we are subjected to the feminist interpretation of such events by feminist/beta writers. This becomes very frustrating when we know, as men, that such interpretation is slanted to suit the feminist imperative.

Anthony
Guest
Anthony

Advice for Mr. Knight: If you value your relationship with your kids, go read MMSL. Your wife isn’t fat, and you could probably get her to be more satisfying without cheating or divorcing her. (If you don’t have kids, then contemplate divorce, but not until you’ve consulted a lawyer *and* read some game blogs so you can do well out of it after you’ve lost half or more of the value of your practice.) What will probably happen instead: Mr. Knight will end up having an affair with someone else – probably less hot than Ms. Nelson, and maybe even… Read more »

22to28
Guest

Insightful. It makes me wonder, though. What should a twenty-six year old single man like myself who values fidelity proceed with the knowledge of where his SMV is now and where it will be in another fifteen years?

Vicomte
Guest
Vicomte

Survivor,

Asian-Asian or Asian-American?

elDuro
Guest
elDuro

Great post, very well written

monster221
Guest
monster221

seeing the missez it does come into full view. she wanted the pretty girl fired. it was an act of jealousy, using her husband as a weapon to prove to a young(ish) pretty broad that even old bats can still win the hypergamy game. but we cant all be players. this guy may be a chump, but in his mind hes a married chump. he recognizes his attraction and finds that his wife and family is more important to him than some womans job, and sadly, more important than his masculinity. a fellas gotta do what he feels is right.… Read more »

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

I think the moral of the story is learn not to be a total beta early in life so you avoid this extremely pathetic situation. Knight looks like your standard ‘nice guy’ beta. Tattoo simply was because he wanted to be cool at some point and failed miserably. His wife looked like she was never hot and always a prude. He could probably count on one hand the times he has had sex over the covers with the lights on with this woman. See don’t be a beta schulb when you get married and she will marry a woman that… Read more »

Keanu
Guest

“The real damage will be dealt in his new need for constant repression of this knowledge every time he bangs his wife, every time she nags, every time she gives him that doe-like thousand yard stare;”

…Everytime he thinks that there is a girl out there who he can have sex with without having to picture someone else. Good luck with that Mr. Knight, should have locked your phone!

Dillon
Guest
Dillon

This case is nothing to do with the dentist. He is just an employee of the real owner. His wife.

The lawsuit was acutally between the wife Mrs Knight and Mrs Nelson.

If it was only between Dr Knight and the dental assistant, she would have won of course.

3rd Millenium Men
Guest

Fascinating analysis Rollo. As for “Nothing good ever comes from adultery”, I completely agree. Broken homes so often result in huge trauma for children going up. When I decide to settle down, it will be my wife and my wife only forever. Even when the going will likely be tough, I will push on out of love for my children. I’ve seen the effects of broken homes and adultery on too many of my friends. Even when it happens in their twenties it still affects them badly. When the kids are younger it’s just horrific. On top of that, the… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

The most amazing aspect of the story is that he actually told her why she was being fired. For goodness sakes, he couldn’t come up with a better reason? Downsizing, lack of work, planning on reducing his working hours etc.

This smacks of some false bullshit Christian modesty (he even included the pastor?!) which only reared it’s head when his wife found out.

He got caught out and rather than face the music he blamed it on her carnality.

James
Guest
James

Hey Rollo, Just curious if you have an email address I can message you some direct questions?

Bully
Guest
Bully

What I’ve noticed about women getting older is that they would rather attempt to control and subjugate rather than contribute and compete, this case being no exception. Women getting older and closer to the wall are at a significant disadvantage, no doubt. But instead of trying to hold onto that youthful glimmer through maintaining an acceptable weight, hairstyle, femininity or even more extreme options like plastic surgery, they would rather shame and demean men’s biological preferences instead of putting forth the effort to keep themselves up. The funny thing is, I think most men are good enough to realize that… Read more »

Bully
Guest
Bully

I don’t think that inciting men to cheat is the answer. I think it’s more about pressuring women to stay attractive as they age, just as men are pressured all their lives to compete for greater power and resources. It feels like during marriage only one party gets relief from their role, and it sure as hell isn’t men.

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

Cheating is for men with weak frames, a scarcity mentality, and no control over their own life. Open Multiple Long-Term Relationships are the way to go. No lies, no deceit, no guilt, no shame, and all the benefits of normal LTRs. If you want kids, keep the girls on the side discreet and at a distance. If you don’t want your girl fucking other guys, be higher value than them to her (regardless of objectively whether most people would consider you higher value) and trust her hypergamy to keep her from wanting to bang anyone but you, and give her… Read more »

Adam
Guest
Adam

That’s not a tattoo. They were probably at some fucked up spiritual/yoga class where symbols are painted on them to signify some gay personal growth shit.

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

“That’s not a tattoo. They were probably at some fucked up spiritual/yoga class where symbols are painted on them to signify some gay personal growth shit.”

Alright. That’s the last straw. It’s official. James Knight is beta of the year.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

I think that’s a Henna tattoo, and yes, he’d certainly be a strong contender for CH’s beta of the year.

LynxViridis
Guest

What I don’t get is why he did this talking about bulging pants, involving the priest and everything. Why? Legal reasons, in order to be able to fire her? Or was it some kind of revenge from the wife, wanting it to be made clear that she was thje one behind all this?

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

“What I don’t get is why he did this talking about bulging pants, involving the priest and everything. Why?”

All your questions can be answered with “Beta of the Year”.

itsme
Guest
itsme

THAT guy can cheat because his options are get financially raped in court, go without sex for the rest of his life, or cheat.

seems to me that describes the majority of married guys.

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

“seems to me that describes the majority of married guys.”

Exactly. I love the male hamster. “Cheating is unacceptable, except under these specific circumstances, which applies to 99% of married men who cheat.” Only three words to describe this level of cognitive dissonance:

Erudite Knight
Guest

I have to say, I am very surprised this decision stood. Perhaps there is still a little hope left. Watching everyone (women mainly) cry about this is funny.

The irony is this is a ‘huge story’ yet if a female fired a male for a similar reason no one would say anything.

Emma the Emo
Guest

I’m just glad family values won over ridiculous anti-discrimination laws this time.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Did anyone happen to catch this from the first article?:

She did not allege sexual harassment because Knight’s conduct may not have risen to that level and didn’t particularly offend her, Fiedler said.

So, “bulging pants”, “tight fitting” medical scrubs and beta sexual innuendos about sports cars “didn’t particularly offend her.”? What if she had been offended? I think we’d have an entirely different outcome here.

This is the subjective nature of sexual harassment legalities. Harassment only occurs when a woman feels it occurred.

trackback

[…] Update:  Several other bloggers have written their own thoughts on the issue (Vox Day, Sunshine Mary, and Ballista74).  See also Rollo’s recent post on the feminine imperative and employment law. […]

D-Man
Guest
D-Man

Yeah, that’s why this decision has gone through (so far)… 1) She doesn’t claim to have been harassed (good for her resisting the temptation to claim this, false sexual harassment charges are watered-down false rape claims) 2) As Dillon says it was the wife who fired her. Take the wife out of the equation (well, he wouldn’t have fired her in that case, but assuming he did), he would have been charged and she would’ve received cash and public vindication. Still, sad in so many ways. Basically this is like saying the average man – even the successful ones –… Read more »

NeotheLeo
Guest
NeotheLeo

Funny how the firing and even the ruling by “MEN” judges all are being spun as “Evil men, fire woman without just reason”, when the reality is, a WOMAN “Knight’s wife” demanded her be fired. A woman did this to another woman. Knight was only doing what a good beta would do and follow his wife’s orders…. If it wasn’t for the wife’s demand to fire her, I am willing to bet she would still be employed and Knight would still be pining away…

Yes, it’s all men’s fault…. pfffffft

taterearl
Guest
taterearl

“What I don’t get is why he did this talking about bulging pants, involving the priest and everything. Why? ”

Some guys aren’t the strong, silent type.

Plus the confessional is the better place to talk about this…it’s private, the priest can’t say anything to the wife, and you can air all your grievances. It always surprises me how people don’t like going in there…it’s the best and cheapest therapy I can find.

D-Man
Guest
D-Man

“The funny thing is, I think most men are good enough to realize that their wives are going to grow old whether they like it or not, but would gladly stick with them if they put up a decent effort to maintain themselves. When the effort isn’t there, men get frustrated” It’s not only the effort to maintain their physical attractiveness… it’s also the effort to maintain their demeanor and personality. Their likeability. If wife has lost some of her youthful juiciness, but she’s still warm, eager to please, and easy to be around, it’s not such a big deal.… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

I’m gonna go out on a limb here. I realize this is all speculation, but judging from Knight’s actions and pictures of him (and the missus) and the fact that their pastor was involved, I would bet that Mrs. Knight didn’t discover the texts by snooping or accident – I would bet he confessed all of this on his own to her. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d felt convicted for wanting to bang Nelson, brought it up with his pastor or someone at church he felt accountable to, and copped to the texts he beta-riffically assumed would result in… Read more »

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

“I would bet he confessed all of this on his own to her.”

Fuck “beta of the year”. James Knight shall now be known as “Beta of the New Millenium”.

D-Man
Guest
D-Man

“In 10 years she didn’t suspect her husband wanted to get after it with the only hot piece of ass he was in the immediate vicinity of?”

Hamster at work. 10 years ago she probably thought she was as hot or hotter than Nelson. It’s only now, as she knows she’s not, that the insecurities come out and get projected on the husband.

You say you wouldn’t be surprised if he confessed it… I say I wouldn’t be surprised if she drew it out of him through interrogation.

D-Man
Guest
D-Man

OH and while we’re wildly speculating, I wouldn’t be surprised if Nelson loved the attention (hence the lack of harassment claim), and loved the power it gave HER over her boss (Mrs. Knight)….

D-Man
Guest
D-Man

I realize that all sounded like GOSSIP, so here’s my point: The internalized Feminine Imperative will always have us examine and attack the character of the Man in the situation first… in this case not once, but TWICE: First as done by the wife, the church, and the state: They assume he’s not in control of his desires, he’s a potential cheater, (and if you will believe some vehement feminists, a potential rapist)… Then, as we have done here: he’s a hapless Beta… (a conclusion with which I do not disagree) NeotheLeo: “Yes, it’s all men’s fault…. pfffffft”. Maybe this… Read more »

michaeltx
Guest
michaeltx

…this morning on the today show…

[

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

“Exactly. I love the male hamster. “Cheating is unacceptable, except under these specific circumstances, which applies to 99% of married men who cheat.”” No shit, that’s my point. 99% of men aren’t living the kind of lives they should be living because they’re not self-aware enough to know what they want and are too scared of being alone to achieve it. Game and the Manosphere are the answer to that. This generation of old guys who are in that trap, hey, go ahead and cheat, you’re a lost cause, but do it intelligently. But the next generation of men that… Read more »

michaeltx
Guest
michaeltx

“Women should flirt at work to get what they want”

http://i47.tinypic.com/11tvskp.jpg

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

CassMan’s got it. I concur 100% with his shit. Having to cheat means you put yourself in a situation where you’re not living congruently to your desires. It’s beta and weak.

That doesn’t help the old guys who fell into the marriage trap, but it applies to any non-married (not even single, just not legally bound) guys reading this blog. If you are cheating on your girlfriend or fiancé, you are weak as a man.

itsme
Guest
itsme

i don’t cheat on any of my girlfriends.

Akeem Balogun
Guest

Anyone know any books (such as the The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley) which detail why men are the way they are, and also any other books that explain what it means and – how to – be a ‘real man’ (a cool arse motherfucker with game to put it bluntly) I’m looking for a way to teach some of my people this stuff without them getting defensive or saying some other bull telling me how they’re ensured to get with the ‘right one’ in the not too distant future. It would be… Read more »

Phillyastro
Guest
Phillyastro

Hookers ain’t cheating…

-St. Augustine

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@michealtx, do you have a link to the video?

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

“CassMan’s got it. I concur 100% with his shit. Having to cheat means you put yourself in a situation where you’re not living congruently to your desires. It’s beta and weak. That doesn’t help the old guys who fell into the marriage trap, but it applies to any non-married (not even single, just not legally bound) guys reading this blog. If you are cheating on your girlfriend or fiancé, you are weak as a man.” As I said yesterday, I don’t personally choose to be dishonest to women, because I don’t have to, and neither do you. But there are… Read more »

Phinn
Guest
Phinn

“10 years is a long time NOT to suspect her husband’s attraction” Ten years ago, Nurse Nelson was hotter. The younger, hotter, more fertile Nelson probably gave Dr. Dickless zero attention and responsiveness to his entreaties back then. But as she started to hit the Wall, Nurse Nipples may have been attention-whoring more than usual, wearing tighter clothes, giving Dr. Beta a little more of a flirtatious greenlight to stroke her ego and lift her sagging … uh … self-confidence. She still had zero intention of letting Henna-Tattoo do more than peek down her undersized scrubs, of course, but Mrs.… Read more »

AnonWriter
Guest
AnonWriter

Cheating is for people with no character and no accountability. If you are in a sexless marriage or you’re no longer attracted to your wife, then either fix things to your liking or get a divorce. Men need to stop being so afraid of divorce. Yes, men get shafted in the short term, but if divorce is never a viable option for you, then you are going to get shafted much worse in the marriage. Ideally, you plan for the possibility of divorce before you get married. You have a pre-nup. You maintain separate accounts as well as a joint… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

E.J.: Like I say, I give a free pass to the last generation because they didn’t have PUA Game or a Manosphere to learn from. But any guy in today’s generation, who willingly enters a legal contract of monogamy and then cheats is someone who entered a contract out of ignorance, apathy, or against his better judgement because he caved to the social pressure to do it, or because he’s terrified he won’t be able to find another girl (scarcity). If you aren’t ready to settle down, don’t enter a monogamous relationship. It’s that simple. If you’ve been around and… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

Another way to look at it: Say your rule/value that you’ve decided for yourself is “I don’t drink. It’s bad for my body and make me lethargic the next day and I have business to attend to.” Then you go out with friends and they offer you a drink and you go “well I wasn’t really planning on drinking tonight…no thanks” and they go “aww c’mon man!!” and hold a beer in front of you. So you take it and drink it to feel accepted and not rock the boat. Then a couple beers in a cute girl you’re into… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

I’d recommend a man spend his 20s figuring out what his values and goals and standards are, by meeting and dating and sleeping with a variety of women and meeting and making friends with a variety of people, and doing some traveling solo to learn how to rely on yourself and build your identity as a man and solidify your internal confidence.

Then in your 30s, follow those values/goals and don’t settle for less and leisurely seek women out that fit your lifestyle and needs.

If these days you get married at 20 to the only girl you’ve dated, you are retarded.

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

YaReally: Again, such heroic nonsense. No one knows right now whether or not they will be able to fuck the same woman 10 years from now, especially if that man’s SMV goes up a point or two while his wife’s declines. If you fuck a dozen 7’s, get married with the best intentions, and have an 8 throw herself at you with a fat wife at home, all of a sudden “morality” turns into “opportunity.” It happens every single day, and has nothing to do with the alpha/beta spectrum. I agree that there are aspects of infidelity that are beta… Read more »

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

“I’d recommend a man spend his 20s figuring out what his values and goals and standards are, by meeting and dating and sleeping with a variety of women and meeting and making friends with a variety of people, and doing some traveling solo to learn how to rely on yourself and build your identity as a man and solidify your internal confidence. Then in your 30s, follow those values/goals and don’t settle for less and leisurely seek women out that fit your lifestyle and needs. If these days you get married at 20 to the only girl you’ve dated, you… Read more »

Rik
Guest
Rik

Maybe the dentist did fuck the nurse and the wife found out. Then forced her husband to say theese things. That would be one way of coming out as the winner in all this, next to divorcing the husband which she for a number of plausible reasons may not want to (or will do later). If thr husband agrees to this then the nurse can’t believably laim she fucked him.

michaeltx
Guest
michaeltx

@Rollo, no sir, I just caught a glimpse of it on this morning on my way out the door.

Enskipp
Guest
Enskipp

Ironic that he’s white and his name is Knight… lol

Georgia Boy
Guest
Georgia Boy

I don’t do the infidelity thing, though I suppose I do have the status to get a side girlfriend. Nobody said the red pill meant you can’t believe in love anymore, just clarified what a woman’s love is and isn’t. But once you have an LTR with a good one, that’s worth more than 20 flings with full-of-themselves barflies and cocktail waitresses. Just my opinion of course. The good women don’t much like sharing their men, and sneaking around and lying is not conducive to living an alpha frame.

Ace Haley
Guest

@YaReally: For real. Especially that part about meeting, dating and sleeping with a variety of women in their 20s. If they can’t in their 20s for whatever reason, the 30s. \

I don’t know how to put it in another way but it bothers me when I hear that a guy worked his ass off and didn’t have his fun like the “reformed” woman he settled for. Why should Joseph settle for Jane if Jane slept with 50 guys and Joseph hasn’t even touched 10 girls?

This is mind-boggling to me and to a lot of people I know.

Random Angeleno
Guest
Random Angeleno

Phinn at 3:52pm seems to have hit the closest to the mark regarding the dynamic of this situation. I have been with my current dentist many years and have long noticed that his staff doesn’t include a single boner-worthy woman. That may be more beta than alpha, but on the other hand, he’s insuring that his living doesn’t get interrupted by sexual politics and I don’t think that’s a bad thing, Schwarzenegger jokes notwithstanding. Regarding cheating, if the relationship devolves to the point where the man feels like cheating, then if there are no kids, he’s better off leaving. But… Read more »

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

Does it mean nothing to you that you get these tales from tabloids? White-trash/underclass culture is the state of nature. And it is almost 100% irrelevant to my life, despite its alarming gradual takeover of the middle class. Your projection of animal behaviors upon the civilized is white trash in itself, where grown men giggle at sexual innuendo like junior-high drop outs. It’s only a short step from there to imagining [t]his very religious and moral individual in all likelihood had been devising scenarios in his head about how he might engage in some kind of sexual tryst with Nelson… Read more »

Phinn
Guest
Phinn

“You have no standing to imagine what the “very religious and moral individual” is imagining. You simply fill in the blanks with your own lowest-common-denominator assumptions about the limits of discipline and human flourishing.” Where do you come up with this crap? This isn’t a tabloid story — it’s from a state supreme court legal opinion. It initially made the news because of its impact on labor law. From that legal reporting, we learned that Dr. Knight himself contended that his employee’s female form caused him to have erections. This was part of his defense — that he was sexually… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

“Again, such heroic nonsense.” Transformers rules. “No one knows right now whether or not they will be able to fuck the same woman 10 years from now, especially if that man’s SMV goes up a point or two while his wife’s declines. If you fuck a dozen 7′s, get married with the best intentions, and have an 8 throw herself at you with a fat wife at home, all of a sudden “morality” turns into “opportunity.”” Well then, perhaps they shouldn’t be getting married or entering monogamous relationships because those are retarded notions that go against our biology and logic… Read more »

Case
Guest
Case

Rollo re: post of dec 27th 1:15 pm,
I don’t know if its the 3 shots i’ve imbibed so far this evening or the fact of my own early prehistory with churchianity that informs me of certain high likelihoods but tthat post has me busting up.

Si tunc ecclesia stultus

Case
Guest
Case

Actually that’s not what I’d meant to say
kinda drunk
what I meant was

In risu sit veritas

In laughter, is truth

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

YaReally writes: But any guy in today’s generation, who willingly enters a legal contract of monogamy and then cheats is someone who entered a contract out of ignorance, apathy, or against his better judgement because he caved to the social pressure to do it, or because he’s terrified he won’t be able to find another girl (scarcity). *pitying head shake* I’d recommend a man spend his 20s figuring out what his values and goals and standards are, by meeting and dating and sleeping with a variety of women and meeting and making friends with a variety of people, and doing… Read more »

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

King A to YaReally: You’re childish and unmanly because you get laid more than me. You just need to “man up” and get married. The men who got divorced deserved it because they weren’t alpha enough and/or Christian enough. King A to xsplat: You’re pathetic and unmanly because you get laid more than me. You just need to “man up” and get married. The men who got divorced deserved it because they weren’t alpha enough and/or Christian enough. King A to AB Dada: You’re an unmanly hippie because you get laid more than me. You just need to “man up”… Read more »

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

Phinn wrote: This isn’t a tabloid story — it’s from a state supreme court legal opinion. It initially made the news because of its impact on labor law. You credulous sap. The prurient focus on just those “facts of his case,” the judgments based on ample photographs, and the speculation about psychological motivation are what’s “tabloid.” The immodest dress of the woman, the indiscretion with which the dentist handled the disruption, and the transformation of marital discord into employment-legal issues are what’s “white trash.” And still none of it speaks to how these crude specimens’ behavior informs us about “religious… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

Mentioned the article to a friend and he chimed in with this one:

MERMAID EFFECT

Barney from How I Met Your Mother

“Sailors stuck at sea would get desperate for female companionship. It got so bad that eventually the manatees out in the water started to look like beautiful women: Mermaids. You see, every woman, no matter how initially repugnant, has a Mermaid Clock, the time it takes for you to realize you want to bone her. Sure, today you see [your secretary] Iris as a manatee, but she ain’t going to stay that way.”

Funny but true.

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

E.J. to King A: I remember details and patterns about your disagreements from years ago, with people and conversations you have forgotten, but I have to mock you to prove I’m not an obsessed and jealous observer of other men. King A to E.J.: It’s not working. But keep judging from a distance, as detached cowards do, rather than risking an attempt at substance and my harsh public rejection of it. Next time you might stumble over a pattern that is useful to me. Right now your observations reek of bitterness and complaint in the utter absence of cause, beyond… Read more »

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

I only found the manosphere in 2012, so I had no idea you’ve been posting the same arguments for years. That’s even worse.

So let me get this straight. You’ve spent years trying to shame single and divorced men, on numerous blogs, but I reek of bitterness and complaint? Irony aside, how is your life mission going?

CL
Guest

The repeated injunctions concerning Matthew’s supposed lack of sex life sounds like the first line of attack feminists use on men they don’t like. Weak.

E.J.
Guest
E.J.

@CL

There is no reason on Earth any man with a healthy sex life would spend years attacking and shaming bachelors. That’s classic misguided sexual frustration. If you’re concerned with feminist shaming language, you can start with Matt’s entire post (calling men weak little boys for not wanting to get married, insulting divorced fathers for not being man enough to keep a wife, etc.). Interesting how none of that bothers you.

Love's Orphan
Guest
Love's Orphan

The event proves me what i’ve been thinking for some months. The battle is between unattractive women and attractive women. And men are the sword, the shield, the bait, and the lamb that is going to be sacrificed to the gods in order to win it.

John Galt
Guest
John Galt

Queen A’s comments are very tiring. Only way to shut him up is to steal his bible and thesaurus.

anon
Guest
anon

Piss off, idiot. King A is the manosphere’s brightest voice, by far and bar none. Simply peerless, and always an absolute pleasure to read.

I’m sure you’d disagree, but then again it’s probably about time for you to “John Galt” your way back to a place that’s a little bit more up your speed. I’m sure you’d fit in nicely in the Hooked on Phonics community forums.

Keanu
Guest

Obviously Knight’s problem was that he broke the golden Tom Brady rule:

Mike
Guest
Mike

Rollo,

There might be somthing in this article that is rare and self revealing Fi.

file:///C:/Users/Micheal/Documents/Interview%20with%20Jane%20Christmas%20%20Macleans_ca%20-%20Culture%20-%20Lifestyle.htm

Mike
Guest
Mike

file:///C:/Users/Micheal/Documents/Interview%20with%20Jane%20Christmas%20%20Macleans_ca%20-%20Culture%20-%20Lifestyle.htm

Mike
Guest
Mike
thebloggerssoliloquy
Guest

Anyone know any books (such as the The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley) which detail why men are the way they are, and also any other books that explain what it means and – how to – be a ‘real man’ (a cool arse motherfucker with game to put it bluntly) I’m looking for a way to teach some of my people this stuff without them getting defensive or saying some other bull telling me how they’re ensured to get with the ‘right one’ in the not too distant future. It would be… Read more »

taterearl
Guest
taterearl

“Even the shrewiest shrew can be tamed — particularly since they seek their own taming above every other want. The shrike is all but shrieking for the discipline she cannot provide for herself, the manly command that saves her from self-destruction. A man just has to up his game.” Now if every man put that into his brain bank and used it he’d be surprised with the results. I’ve been practicing this…just giving commands to women, nothing big, just something to see what the results will be. Some will just do it, some will shriek and then do it, some… Read more »

Phinn
Guest
Phinn

>>> And still none of it speaks to how these crude specimens’ behavior informs us about “religious perceptions” or gives cause for Rollo’s going “out on a limb here.” Part of Dr. Knight’s case is his argument that he and his wife consulted with their pastor before firing the woman. They put that fact out there, and are relying on it. But even though they inserted that religious element into their argument of having done nothing illegal, you want us to think that it’s somehow wildly inappropriate to walk through the door they opened by commenting on that very same… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

When I read any of Matt’s diatribes, I find them far more palatable and entertaining if you imagine his words being spoken in long form Elizabethan English, as if they were delivered to the House of Lords by the prime minister. What’s more, weak men complain of the marriage “trap” as a cover for their own shortcomings. They cannot be the man of their own house, they cannot control a woman’s hypergamy with love or with dread, and so they weep like girls and seek some external force to blame. If I’m understanding you correctly here then your take on… Read more »

treylesnorth
Guest

Caught something interesting to me yesterday. Happened to relate to some of the comments I skimmed above regarding whether it’s ethical or respectable for a man to cheat on his wife.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/3653763/Brilliant-men-always-betray-their-wives.html

I’d heard about Picasso and JFK, sure. But Einstein? Bertrand Russell? Curiouser and curiouser

John Galt
Guest
John Galt

Lol, well, if you really do think Queen is the “brightest voice” in the manosphere, then there is a reason you post as “anonymous”. You stick to you your racist bible beating faggot, and I will take Ya Really and mark minter, men who are actually out there pounding the pavement every day with women and sharing their experiences with the community.

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