“Were you just looking at her?!! WERE YOU?!!,..I bet you just wanna fuck her don’t you?,.. DON’T YOUUU!!!”
One curious aspect of the manosphere community is it’s tendency to pick up on what I’d call ‘pet pathologies’. It’s very easy and comforting to ascribe a general lack of social intelligence or a retardation in social maturity on Asperger’s Syndrome. I’m not suggesting that Asperger’s isn’t a legitimate pathology, but I think the frequency with which men will convenientlyĀ attribute their social awkwardness to it delegitimizes the real illness. Most Betas often report a discomfort with approaches and Game in general because of varying degrees of social anxiety that they’ve internalized for the better part of their lives.
So, it’s a much simpler premise to attribute this to a psychological disorder than to admit that they’ve got a lot of work ahead of them in unlearning the hinderances the’ve been conditioned to believe about themselves for so long. I’m not saying guys (why is it rarely women?) don’t have Asperger’s, but I think some real introspection is due before diagnosingĀ it for themselves. Another neurosis that gets attributed to women in the manosphere is BPD, Borderline Personality Disorder:
*DSM-IV-TR Diagnostic Criteria A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships,Ā self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:Ā Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days). Chronic feelings of emptiness. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights). Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.
I struggled with deciding whether to write about this because in our current intergender environment, it’s very easy to conveniently ascribe these symptoms and tendencies to the ‘psycho bitches’ that men often complain about. She’s crazy in bed, but she’s also crazy out of bed. I would doubt that there’s a man dating in the last decade who hasn’t encountered one or some combination of neurosis listed in this clinical diagnosis with a woman he’s dating or has dated.
As the gender landscape has developedĀ in the last 40 years, so to has the variety of Ā psychoses. So it’s for this reason that I think understanding true BPD neurosis in comparison to the common anxieties of insecurity that women are prone needs to be explored.
True BPDs
I had an LTR with a BPD woman for 4 years when I was in my 20s and I can tell you from experience, it’s nothing to laugh at or take lightly. It’s particularly damaging for AFCs locked into a BPDs negative feedback loop, especially when he’s developed a soul destroying ONEitis with her and associates himself as the source of her depression / psychosis.
True BPDs progressively convince their victims that they are the source of her neurosis. You are not yourself, you are who she’s molding you to be, and eventually you’ll come to believe that it’s in your best interest – indeed, your responsibility – to be who she wants you to be to sustain that neurosis.
You will gradually give up on your family and friends (or they give up on you), you will drop all ambitions and passions that directly focus on you, and you will abandon any genuine, independent identity you held for yourself, all because these are threats to the neurotic narrative she constructs for herself and lives out.
She will reward your conversion to her psychosis with the intermittent reward of crazy hot sex, but this is simply the reinforcer to keep you locked into her narrative. The YOU you know will cease to exist and the character she creates for you will take over. This is especially true for beta chumps who see their BPD as their best, only option for a long term romantic prospect. She’s an HB 9 (to him) and he’s never fucked better than a 5 in his whole life, so the risk of catastrophic loss is real and ever-present. It’s fate that brought them together, and if he can only help allay her fears they can live happily ever after.
In the latter stages of a BPD relationship you will get to the point where her overt cuckolding of you is an acceptable situation. You think you’ll mitigate it by negotiating some “open relationship” status with her. You will internalize the reasoning that negotiating for her desire is preferable to losing her. You’ll propose that an open relationship means you’re both free to fuck other parties, when in reality it’s the only way you can rationalize for yourself the fact that she’s going to go fuck other guys, and you’re going to accept it because you’re locked into her neurosis. It’s your fault she feels compelled to fuck other guys ā and you’ll believe it.
That, or the mere suggestion of you being interested in sex with another woman will send her into fits of jealous, histrionic rage. You’re living in fear. You’re afraid she’ll commit suicide if you uproot yourself (a classic BPD unspoken threat), but trust me on this, it’ll be you who swallows a bullet long before she ever will. I’ve personally known two men who’ve done just this, and another who hung himself as the result of a BPD relationship.
I know it seems like most of the friends you still do have are simply passing you off by saying “get out” and move on, but your life literally depends on you doing so. Cutting you off and disengaging you from external perspectives about your twisted relationship is essential to a BPD’s neurosis. Eventually your friends and family will give up on the ‘new you’.
Also, I must add this, when and if you do finally muster the self-concern enough to actually leave her, expect a complete about-faceĀ in her mentality and behavior. The one thing a true BPD loathes more than her victim is the thought of having to ensnare another. There are plenty of other Beta chumps ready to fill that role, but the comfort and easy predictability you represent to her in the present builds an emotional dependency. BPDs will fight like wild animals not to lose their victim, so expect anĀ extinctionĀ burst from her the likes of which are unimaginable.
For a guy so accustomed to her neurotic behavior, his first impression is that she’s making some real change for him in order to “improve the relationship.” It’s not, but so radical a shift in her behavior will convince you otherwise, and cause you to doubt her deception, particularly when you yourself have no options and believe you’ll never do any better than her.
Yup, reminds me a a woman i dated for 4 months. Crazy eyes, dumped by husband, lost a ton of a weight. Suing her own sister, possibly brother, father, me, ex-husband, etc. Multiple suicide attempts, false restraining orders and false rape claims.
I’m sure by now she’s found some loser who has ego filling needs to idolize. I found that crap creepy but tolerated it for 4 months because we banged it out 3-5 times a day, every single day.
She’ll probably kill herself by 45(i think she just turned 38)
Revisiting the site after a few months and have a comment about dealing with a BPD. One of the BPD’s greatest fears is that people will find out what they are! They are constant manipulators of all acquaintances and cannot stand for there B S to be revealed. I related previously that my ex-wife suddenly quit her 6 figure medical job within weeks of our separation, to hook up with a canoe guide and move across country. I’m fairly certain that one of our final conversations caused this, one where I told her that she was a fool with all… Read more »
[…] [2] https://therationalmale.com/2012/01/20/borderline-personality-disorder/ […]
Another word of caution concerning BPD partners. There is ample literature documenting potential violence by BPD people against family, as well as acquaintances. In my individual case, my ex was in the medical field with access to drugs. I experienced several instances where she, unknown to me, administered drugs to me, as follows: – An unknown number of times administered antibiotics in my food treating me for STD she had contracted and passed to me. – At least one instance of secretly administering a sleep inducing drug to me. (I later considered whether this should be reported as a safety… Read more »
Jeezus, thanks Hugh
Thanks Hugh, another wakeup call for me. Scary shit.
https://therationalmale.com/2016/10/02/spare-the-rod/comment-page-2/#comment-172480
Hugh, so sorry to hear about how bad you’ve had it. Should i be more scared? I’ve been sued 6 times now by a BPD in 13 months and she continues to revenge stalk me for leaving her. I don’t think she’ll get violent, but stories like this make me wonder if i should be more cautious.
When dealing with a BPD always remember not to assume that your morals and logic are even remotely related to their morals and logic. Just because you would never commit an act doesn’t mean a BPD wouldn’t, plus blame you for “forcing them” to do it.
I’d be very careful with someone that obsessed Randy!
The malfunctioning brain of a BPD is impossible to understand using logic. Once they have you in a relationship with them, they seek total control by manipulation. They want you to sacrifice who you are completely. My BPD -ex rather successfully isolated me from family and friends for a time – always having a reason to not visit or have activities with family or my friends.Family group vacations were out, family dinners were out, golfing with buddies was severely criticized on every occasion. (Note – I was/am an accomplished tournament player, but she thought I should stop playing). Mind you,… Read more »
Seriously. This is so ignorant. This is NOT BPD! This is sociopaths. Please, learn the difference so that the right treatment can be offered to those with BPD. Because they can actually get healthy again. Sociopaths and psychopaths can’t. BPD’s have feelings they don’t know how to regulate. SP/PP’s don’t have any empathy at all for other people sometimes. BPD’s love too intense, are too loyal etc, PP/SP’s will make you become loyal by threatening you. BPD’s don’t make you cut off your family. That’s what the other group does. PLEASE, please educate yourself on the topic more. She may… Read more »
They also don’t have psychosis. They have denationalization and act dissociation.
Nothing you said was mutually exclusive. BPDs are “too loyal”? You sound like you might have BPD and are defending it. I can’t even think i’ve ever met a BPD who wasn’t a sociopath, or as they often call them, narcopaths.
I don’t diagnose people, I report what Psychiatrists report after analyses and testing. I disagree that there is a cure for BPD. My ex is still as dangerous as ever, recently threatening her 92 year old step mother over inheritance and a will, after initially pretending to be greatly concerned with caring for the old lady. She didn’t get answers that she wanted and flipped to her true black self! I agree with the previous poster, that your criticism indicates your own condition. That’s reported as a main problem with possible BPD improvement – an inability to comprehend their own… Read more »
“Get What You Deserve” – Tedeschi Trucks Band.
Destroying the lives of everyone around them, including their own children, qualifies BPDs for nothing but contempt, rejection, and the life they forced on others!
Reblogged this on perfectlyfadeddelusions.
It’s ironic and instructive that we are told that a BPD’s feelings are something like,
“I hate you, don’t leave me” while those involved with and betrayed by BPD’s have feelings something like, “I hate you, please leave me”.
A spot on summary!
Another plain speaking guide to spotting a BPD, and why you must not be drawn in by their attraction tricks, controlling, and inevitable destruction of their victims.
[…] Love is Just a Four Letter Word Types of women to avoid How a Borderline Relationship Evolves ** The Rational Male – Borderlines are CUNTS BPD and Emotional Abuse ** Why 9 out 10 Sluts Have […]
It’s difficult for normal people to realize that to a BPD person, you are akin to just another tree in a forest, offering them temporary shelter from today’s sudden storm. Tomorrow, another tree that’s more immediately available will be chosen and any memory of you will be eliminated. When they find another tree, they quickly conclude that you were inferior protection from the storm and are now unworthy. That is precisely how little you mean to them!
D.R is the craziest bitch I ever met. No man I know likes her. She talks shit about everyone. She’s ugly, smells horrible, family doesn’t even like her, no sex appeal. A total psycho bitch
Here’s a good guide to rebuilding our self respect after a BPD relationship, and good advice on how to avoid becoming a doormat for a BPD woman.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=If+your+wife+has+borderline+personality+disorder+-+run+for+your+life#id=27&vid=b35cc166434cdc5a7e529b4f16863911&action=view
Absolutely spot on.
There’s a book called “Practical Female Psychology for the Practical Man” in which the natural tendency for women to blame the world (i.e. men) for her problems (as though an extension of the sexual principle) is actually something we would associate with of mild BPD. A mild version of this was covered in John Gray’s book where he talks about women behaving like waves. It doesn’t seem like you can have a woman without this. An autstic, Asperger’s or very ruthless man is an example of an extreme male mind gone too far, while BPD is an example of an… Read more »
I just read justactsane’s previous comments again. “BPDs have feelings they don’t know how to regulate. …..love too intensely……are too loyal…….!
Wow! I guess that’s what my Psychiatrist diagnosed BPD ex was thinking when she put our children in day care every day, lying about being at working at the hospital, so that she could partake in repeated afternoon adultery. She was so intense, she did it for years.
What empathy and caring!
There are real monsters in the world and many are BPDs!
BPDs are programed to be the ultimate losers. As they age, they become less able to deceive and manipulate targets, eventually running out of victims. As younger monsters,abusing so many trusting people, they cannot foresee that they will generally live out their senior years shunned and alone. What goes around comes around!
Dunno, Paul does a great job here explaining the reality of BPD
https://www.avoiceformen.com/women/borderline-personality-disorder-sick-or-just-crazy-asshole/
I’ve always been attracted to the speech of the comedian Whitney Cummings. She had a recent writing piece in the New York Times. I think she is a high testosterone woman. Can’t tell exactly from her digit ratio. She speaks in female masculine talk. Full quote here. If you get cockblocked by the NYT paywall, you can always erase the NYT’s cookies in your browser. This made me think of the latest back an forth with Scribbler (I love your AMOGing Scribbler. Please do not stop. It’s fun. And it serves you best.): https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/30/movies/whitney-cummings-the-first-time-i-hung-out-with-wolves.html Excerpt from The First Time I… Read more »
SJF, that article is great, actually. The quotes are right on
[…] this guy before. I’m not happy to admit that, but in my 20s, during the time I was with the BPD girlĀ she made a habit of airing out her insane jealousy, insecurities and general relationship […]
[…] been this guy before. Iām not happy to admit that, but in my 20s, during the time I was with the BPD girlĀ she made a habit of airing out her insane jealousy, insecurities and general relationship […]
I’ve seen it myself up face. It’s a nuclear meltdown — BPD people have no limiters on their emotional intensity and they’re more dangerous than religious extremists. It’s the ‘extreme female brain’.
To everyone struggling with the decision of whether or not to divorce a cheating BPD spouse, realize, that every person whom they cheated with, and every time they cheated, the BPD considered that person was more important than you. You have only secondary value, as a servant, to a cheating BPD. You will remember forever what a good decision divorcing a BPD is and was.
Can you resist? You better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz7IGr3hWog “Self Esteemā – by The Offspring I wrote her off for the tenth time today And practiced all the things I would say But she came over, I lost my nerve I took her back and made her dessert Now I know I’m being used That’s okay, man, ’cause I like the abuse I know she’s playing with me That’s okay ’cause I got no self-esteem We make plans to go out at night I wait ’til 2 then I turn out the light This rejection’s got me so low If she keeps it… Read more »
[…] If you watched the Red Man Group last Saturday I explained why I donāt think she was a BPD case (borderline personality disorder), but after reading this thread Iām beginning to change my […]
Rollo,
I’m a man and my therapist(old man with a long career and isn’t pushing blue pill nonsense at all, so I don’t doubt him) believes that I have BPD, among other things. Do you have any experience with seeing this illness in men? Is there any guidance you can offer to men looking to overcome borderline?
You might find that if you are a male with BPD, you might find it difficult to follow along with The Red Pill. Namely because the Red Pill is concerned with a praxeology of how things work, as in the reality of Hypergamy in male female interactions. And since a hallmark of BPD is that “A distorted view and understanding of reality is one of the major issues with BPD”, that, again might be difficult for you. In answering a Quora question, one commenter volunteered this: https://www.quora.com/How-can-you-tell-the-difference-between-a-borderline-and-a-psychopath/answer/Michael-Gerakios As far as what BPD is, I had created a brief summary which… Read more »
[…] Rollo’s BPD post:Ā https://therationalmale.com/2012/01/20/borderline-personality-disorder/ Read Carl’s “How Many Bitches Be Crazy?”: […]
To weed out toxic people, all one has to do is look at the maturity level of that person’s personality. Rarely does chronological age matches a person’s psychological age. A person can be 30 years old, but have the psychological age of a 16 year old, or worse, a 5 year old due to arrested development caused by a childhood trauma or by a genetic disposition. White Knights tend to have a healing aura that attracts damage people. Using victimhood to draw you in (does she complain being treated badly by her ex, not owning any part?) So it’s necessary… Read more »
BPD is the extreme female mind as autism is the extreme male one. In Taoism, masculinity leans toward earth and is like the sun and Femininity leans towards the water and is like the moon. The Ying Yang circle has two dots in each half of the opposite color. The idea is that if the yang loses that yin dot, the masculine will become far too heartless, an inhuman machine. And if the feminine loses that masculine dot, it will fluctuate without any limit or grounding into insanity. Autism is the first case. BPD is the second. All women have… Read more »
To all who are unfortunate to have been mistreated by a BPD – best advice from a psychiatrist – realize that the BPD’s actions had nothing to do with you! Now that you know that, you can be freed from feelings of responsibility. You had a horrible experience, but have learned and are now free to release the BPD to find their way – possibly to a better place also. You can go on with your life, armed with new knowledge. The world is a huge place, filled with many, many wonderful people and experiences. Go and find them!
BPDs can decimate accomplished therapists too: https://armchairdeductions.wordpress.com/2018/09/16/chaos-hindsight-and-elucidation-the-borderline-koan/
[…] can remember the same anxiety after I’d mercifully split from my BPD girlfriend. Even years after it was all over I’d still have nightmarish dreams about her. What the hell […]
Holy acronyms batman !
Please define them where they are first used
I havenāt been here in a long while but was recently reminded of something I did in an attempt to guarantee no contact and the absolute end of the relationship with my BPD ex. She had moved out, taking what was supposed to be everything she wanted with her. Unfortunately, things were left that I didnāt want and that couple with still having my key to her motor vehicle, allowed me to make a gesture that I hoped would seem like final abandonment to a BPD. I collected the remainder of her stuff, including photos of her, into 2 big… Read more »
Yup! I sold $17,000.00 worth of collectibles to keep my ex happy. She was never happy, like a tornado of wild mood swings and verbal abuse. Meanwhile, she would accuse me of outlandish shit and hide my glasses in the middle of the night in fear that I was absconding. She LTRād my (at the time) best friend and ran the same shenanigans on him.
Borderline Personality Disorder, a Cluster-B Personality Disorder, often goes hand in hand in good-looking women. The only way to find if a chick is bpd or not is to see at her self-esteem. She might look like a 9 or 10, but it’s her self-esteem, she acts like she’s 1 or 2. She’ll brutally objectify you ( treat you like an object rather than a humn being) and to retain her narrative, she’ll give you good sex, just like a bpd guy will buy a girl expensive jewelary, clothes or other stuff. They heavily lack self-esteem, they are always afraid… Read more »
@Fire and Fury Borderline Personality Disorder, a Cluster-B Personality Disorder, often goes hand in hand in good-looking women. That is not technically true from a Bell Curve standpoint. A BPD chick can be either attractive or unattractive. BPD stems from deep developmental childhood through adolescent issues. It stems from having low self esteem (and being willing to abase oneself) while posing as high self esteem. Over and over, and over. The only way to find if a chick is bpd or not is to see at her self-esteem. She might look like a 9 or 10, but itās her self-esteem,… Read more »
sjf Not true. Alpha chads who regularly bang don’t give in to some detachment-phobic chick. BPD chicks will always have sex in return for commitment (in her mind), as long as the guy got his frame. My cousin(male) dated one, I advised him to get laid, but he was afraid that he could get in, but couldn’t have got out, after some time she ghosted him when my cousin was thinking about marrying her. They maximize their looks(excessive make-up freaks, expensive clothes every week if rich enough) but that is meant as a distraction from her insecurity. Her looks barely… Read more »
BPD is a hereditary, genetic condition that significantly affects emotions, sense of self, memory and interpersonal relationships.
Bullshit. Not only BPD, but also Narcissistic Personality Disorder runs in family doesn’t mean it depends on genetics.
Speaking as a borderline here- not all of us are like this. I’ve learned to manage my symptoms in a healthy way and communicate when I’m struggling. Yes, I still have the BPD traits, and my relationships are always more difficult and have a level of instability, but I am still perfectly able to keep up and healthy relationship. If you hear a girl has BPD, you don’t necessarily have to go running the other way. it all depends on how mature and committed to stability the borderline is.
Ok. Thats my ex wife. She managed to completely cut me off from my family, friends etc. When I tried to leave, she tried to cross the road in order to get hit by a car.
I had a GF in my early 20’s on and off for nearly 2 years with Borderline PD. I was lucky that she was from another country and we had a long distance relationship. Except for the cuckolding and drugs/self mutilation she fit it to a T. I didn’t fall into her traps though and eventually realized by reacting to her manipulations I Was being sucked in so I just acted pleasantly and politely aloof waiting for her to go back home. After that I called her and told her I couldn’t make her happy and did not want to… Read more »
[…] Ćeviri: Borderline Personality Disorder […]
Rollo, everything written also stands for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Dr Ramani has a great channel on youtube dedicated to NPD realtionships and touches a lot of behaviors of manipulations that women do which also crossover with their hypergamy.
There should be an episode that tries to discern NPD and Hypergamic behavior because the line is really thin!
That channel helped me deal with my last break-up with a girl that had all the traits and behaviors classified as NPD.
It was hell once I opened my eyes and realized the manipulations and lies.
This has basically been my experience with my bpd (bipolar is also a related term because doctors will exploit billing them as bipolar because insurance wont cover bpd) girlfriend of 5 years. I haven’t called her since I was able to get her to move out and had to block her with because of the constant threats. The last straw was when a close friend brutally died and I found out, I cancelled any plans with her to rest and mourn on my own time and she called me to threaten me all offended I was neglecting her. I got… Read more »
BPD and Female Nature – It would be very interesting to see Rollo’s comments in a long-form show on the relationship between BPD and what he has extensively written about as “female nature.” For example, I have seen BPD’s who seem to ignore hypergamy and monkey-branch DOWN the food chain. Or who seem oblivoius to the triad of looks, status and money. Or who do not observe the “sisterhood uber alles.” Or any of the other features we come to expoect from neurotypical women or otherwise in intergender dynamics. What does “female nature” look like in BPD, of are all… Read more »
My ex was one. She even got a diagnosis for depression and was seeing a psych. But i was so Blue pill that i was applying “equalism” to the extreme. I mean… I had problems too and I didn’t hold her accountable, so why the hell should i be for her ? For me men and women were the same things – and i was just not taking her shit like i wouldn’t have feel bad for a dude going crazy without doing anything to improve. She was going mad because i was holding the same standards for her that… Read more »
[…] Rational Male: Borderline Personality Disorder […]
I’m not a big Rollo Tomassi fan, but holy shit this was a good blog post!
Iām actually in the midst of writing a book about my dating experiences growing up and one of the biggest sections of my book will have to be dedicated to my second ex wife. She most assuredly has BPD. I didnāt know it at the time, I thought she was bipolar. After our divorce I read a lot of books on mental disorders and when I came across what BPD was it was literally word for word what I was experiencing. I wouldnāt wish being with a BPD woman on my worst enemy. It can be a living hell, and… Read more »
[…] Sociosexual assessments of Personality Disorders (Borderline Personality Disorder: Corishev, DeepStrength, Jack, Rollo) […]