Prior to the post-Sexual Revolution era men adapted to their socio-sexual and relational realities based on a pre-acknowledged burden of performance. I’ve outlined the expectations of this period in The Second Set of Books,
[…] when men transition from their comfortable blue pill perspective into the harsh reality that the red pill represents, the experience is a lot like Ball discovering that the set of books (the set of rules) he’d believed everyone was using wasn’t so. Likewise, men who’ve been conditioned since birth to believe that women were using a common set of rules – a set where certain expectations and mutual exchange were understood – were in fact using their own set. Furthermore these men ‘just didn’t get it’ that they should’ve known all along that women, as well as men’s feminization conditioning, were founded in a second set of books.
During the eras prior to the Sexual Revolution that first set of books was more or less an established ideal. Men were every bit as idealistic as they are today, but the plan towards achieving that ideal (if it was in fact achievable) was preset for them. Even the worst of fathers (or parents) still had the expectations that their sons and daughters would follow that old-order rule set as they had done.
For men a greater provisioning was expected, but that provisioning was an integral aspect of a man’s Alpha appeal. The burden of performance was part of a man’s Alpha mindset or was at least partly paired with it.
The danger in that mindset was that a man’s identity tended to be caught up with what he did (usually a career) in order to satisfy that performance burden. Thus when a man lost his job, not only was he unable to provide and meet his performance expectations in his marriage, he also lost a part of his identity. Needless to say this dynamic helped incentivize men to get back on the horse and get back to his identity and his wife’s esteem (even if it was really her necessity that kept her involved with him).
A lot of romanticization revolves around the times prior to the Sexual Revolution as if they were some golden eras when men and women knew their roles and the influence of Hypergamy was marginalized to the point that society was a better place than the place we find ourselves in today. And while it’s undeniable that cultural shifts since the sexual revolution have feminized and bastardized those old-order social contracts, men will always adapt to those new conditions in order to effect their sexual strategies.
There’s a lot of nostalgia for these idealized periods in the manosphere at the moment; seemingly more so as its members mature past their “gaming” years and begin to feel a want for something more substantial. Men are the true romantics of the sexes so it’s no great surprise that their romantic / idealistic concept of love would run towards romanticizing a hopeful return to what they imagine these eras were like.
It’s kind of an interesting counter to how feminism and the Feminine Imperative paints these eras – rather than some idyllic place where women appreciated men, feminists exaggerate and deride these times as oppressive; the sexual revolution akin to the Jews leaving Egypt. What both fail to grasp is the realities of these eras were still just as susceptible to human nature – the human nature described by what we call Red Pill awareness – and both sexes adapted to the social environments of the times to effect their natures.
Condoms were widely available in the 1940’s and men painstakingly painted half-nude pinup girls on the noses of their bombers. Women too adapted to that environment; from What Lies Beneath:
two books by John Costello; ‘Virtue Under Fire’ and ‘Love, Sex, and War’ in which all too much of the above female psychology manifested itself;
“Of the 5.3 million British infants delivered between 1939 and 1945, over a third were illegitimate – and this wartime phenomenon was not confined to any one section of society. The babies that were born out-of-wedlock belonged to every age group of mother, concluded one social researcher:
Some were adolescent girls who had drifted away from homes which offered neither guidance nor warmth and security. Still others were women with husbands on war service, who had been unable to bear the loneliness of separation. There were decent and serious, superficial and flighty, irresponsible and incorrigible girls among them. There were some who had formed serious attachments and hoped to marry. There were others who had a single lapse, often under the influence of drink. There were, too, the ‘good-time girls’ who thrived on the presence of well-paid servicemen from overseas, and semi-prostitutes with little moral restraint. But for the war many of these girls, whatever their type, would never have had illegitimate children. (pp. 276-277)”
and;
“Neither British nor American statistics, which indicate that wartime promiscuity reached its peak in the final stages of the war, take account of the number of irregularly conceived pregnancies that were terminated illegally. Abortionists appear to have been in great demand during the war. One official British estimate suggests that one in five of all pregnancies was ended in this way, and the equivalent rate for the United States indicates that the total number of abortions for the war years could well have been over a million.
These projections are at best merely a hypothetical barometer of World War II’s tremendous stimulus to extra-marital sexual activity. The highest recorded rate of illegitimate births was not among teenage girls, as might have been expected. Both British and American records indicate that women between twenty and thirty gave birth to nearly double the number of pre-war illegitimate children. Since it appears that the more mature women were the ones most encouraged by the relaxed morals of wartime to ‘enjoy’ themselves, it may be surmised that considerations of fidelity were no great restraint on the urge of the older married woman to participate in the general rise in wartime sexual promiscuity. (pp. 277-278)”
Women of the “greatest generation” were still women, and Hypergamy, just like today, didn’t care then either. Dalrock made a fantastic observation in a post once, and I regret I don’t have the link on hand, but paraphrasing he said “Every generation in bygone eras dated differently than the ones before it. Your parents dated in a social condition that was very different than your grandparent or their parents. No one in this generation is going to date like they did on Happy Days.” I think it’s important we don’t lose sight of this, but it’s also important to consider that in all those eras men and women’s sexual strategies remained an underlying influence for them. All that changed was both sexes adapted to the conditions of the times to effect them.
Post-Sexual Revolution Adaptation – The ‘Free Love’ Era
While there’s a lot to criticize about the Baby Boomer generation, one needs to consider the societal conditions that produced them. Egalitarian equalism combined with ubiquitous (female controlled) hormonal birth control and then mixed with blank-slate social constructivism made for a very effective environment in which both sexes sexual strategies could, theoretically, flourish.
Women’s control of their Hypergamous influences, not to mention the opportunities to fully optimize it, was unfettered by moral or social constraints for the first time in history. For men the idea of a ‘Free Love’ social order was appealing because it promised optimization of their sexual strategy – unlimited access to unlimited sexuality.
The new Free Love paradigm was based on a presumption of non-exclusivity, but more so it was based on an implied condition of non-possessiveness. Men adapted to this paradigm as might have been expected, but what they didn’t consider is that in this state their eventual cuckoldry (either proactively or reactively) amounted to women’s optimizing their own Hypergamous impulses.
The social contract of Free Love played to the base sexual wants of permissive variety for men, or at least it implied a promised potential for it. Furthermore, and more importantly, Free Love implied this promise free from a burden of performance. It was “free” love, tenuously based on intrinsic personal qualities on the inside to make him lovable – not the visceral physical realities that inspired arousal nor the rigorous status and provisioning performance burdens that had characterized the intersexual landscape prior.
It should be mentioned that ‘free love’ also played to men’s idealistic concept of love in that freedom from a performance-based love. The equalist all’s-the-same environment was predicated on the idea that love was a mutually agreed dynamic, free from the foundational, sexual strategy realities both sexes applied to love. Thus men’s idealism predisposed them to being hopeful of a performance free love-for-love’s-sake being reciprocated by the women of the age of Aquarius.
That’s how the social contract looked in the advertising, so it’s hardly surprising that (Beta) men eagerly adapted to this new sexual landscape; going along to get along (or along to get laid) in a way that would seem too good to be true to prior generations. And thus their belief set adapted to the sexual strategy that, hopefully, would pay off for them in this new social condition.
For women, though not fully realized at the time, this Free Love social restructuring represented a license for optimizing Hypergamy unimpeded by moral restraint and later unlimited (or at least marginalized) by men’s provisional support. For the first time in history women could largely explore a Sandbergian plan for Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks and, at least figuratively, they could do so at their leisure.
The problem inherent in the Free Love paradigm was that it was based on a mutual understanding that men and women were functional equals, and as such a mutual trust that either sex would hold the other’s best interests as their own. That basis of trust that either sex was rationally on the same page with regard to their sexual strategies is what set the conditions for the consequent generations to come.
This trust on the part of men was that these “equal” women would honor the presumption that it was “who” they were rather than what they represented to their sexual strategy at the various phases of their maturity that would be the basis for women’s sexual selection of them.
In part two I’ll continue this exploration through the 70’s and into our contemporary socio-sexual environment.
Dang, now I can’t get the image of an orchestra pit with 6 or 7 “vagineers”, and their instruments, out of my head.
@Kryptokate
“@ Divided Line I realize that a compliment from me is likely to tarnish your RM reputation, given that most commenters here are highly reactive to the mere sight of a feminine screenname [sic]. Therefore, if I thought you cared whatsoever about your reputation among disembodied strangers, or whether you invoke their ire, contempt, or envy, I would refrain from saying anything.”
I’m curious why you come here to ostensibly leave a compliment and begin by bashing the other commenters. Seems very passive-aggressive to me.
“Seems very passive-aggressive to me.”
Ya think?
Talk about adaptation – check out this documentary on the sexual revolution in China. Mao enforced “equalism” on an extreme basis – while he had legions of young women come to “dance” for him at night. He had syphillis and gave it to many of them, many of whom were virgins. This is all laid out in the biography published about him a few years back by his personal physician during much of his rule. Yet he prohibited premarital sex for the Chinese. Ah yes, yet another socialist intellectual doing what his ideas ultimately tell him he must, and oh… Read more »
As far as intelligence goes, it’s been shown that at the high end men have fewer partners. Perhaps due to lack of social intelligence, and lack of relatability as well. Average intellect has the most partners. I grew up as 99 percentile SAT, and it did make relationships more difficult. Didn’t translate to social intelligence. Now I can learn that stuff, but it takes time and experience. Still, when I would discuss things with soon to be ex, she would always win based on social intelligence. I would think of good analytical counter arguments – a day later. Of course,… Read more »
@Striver “The Internet has killed beta game.” Only a bad workman curses his tools. The females were always the same just that this is a different battlefield. I am not able to comprehend you lamenting the loss of beta game. The beta game was never fulfilling and an illusion of achievement at best. Good riddance. You just improve your game and let the rest of world go into their own created hell. Beta game is like always trying an egg-white omelette hoping that you would stumble on some recipe where it would taste better than an omelette with egg-yolk. Does… Read more »
@striver
“The Internet has killed the game of the average guy who can’t find a way to stand out, since there are simply too many of him. ”
So than you adapt
Women will want to be with a successful man. Alpha is a mindset. You think you could build that over the Internet?
@Shiva H.P.
Good point on DHV
Okay, you want to know my situation? Tell me how I can “DHV?” Yeah, just start DHVing. I just turned 50, 3 kids, ages 5 to 7. Divorce not yet final. Buying a small duplex as a starter home, best I could do. What can I do on the almighty DHV? I will answer a list I found at random. Pre-selection: mostly have to be faked. I’m better looking than average, tall, so I got that. Never a ladies’ man. Won’t talk myself down as far as women being attractive, but I can’t fake A-list. Leader of men: No chance.… Read more »
Do what the average man does, get what the average man gets. What the average man seems to want above all else, however, is to be average, to “fit in.” There is, therefore, a certain disingenuousness about his complaints about not being able to stand out. I can sympathize with the plight of the average man, but I cannot truly empathize with it. I have never felt the same motivation to be average. I do not understand it. And these days, when so few men even try, indeed trying is actively denigrated, it takes so little effort to reach the… Read more »
Striver
June 18th, 2015 at 2:33 pm
I dunno. My brain power never seemed to get in the way. I was Red Pilled (the rudiments) back in ’62 by my first GF at UChicago.
But I have an attitude similar to that of a certain well known smuggler. “Never tell me the odds.” Because I intend to bend the curve. Twist it into knots if I have to.
” . . .it’s probably back to LTR or alone.”
How many points on the number line are there between 1 and 2?
” . . . but what about her? What does she bring to the table here? . . . what does the woman DO FOR ME?”
Well hey, guess what? If you hold that as the core of your relationships with women, you’re already in the 90th percentile, whether you realize it or not.
@Divided Line, Et Al, Look, I will be honest, I have been away for a few days, and while I tried to follow the entire conversation going on here (it’s actually is pretty fascinating), I did not have the time to read it all in depth. I just felt a need to throw something out there. Maybe it’s just my mood. Philosophy and high flown rhetoric doesn’t shape history, security competition and the perception of national (or financial) interest does. Everything else is rationalizations and excuses. Security competition for who? For what? What is in a ‘national interest’? Does it… Read more »
Striver June 18th, 2015 at 3:47 pm DHV? Get rid of your failure attitude. And Spock was often a leader of men. Just not as many as Kirk. You don’t have to be a Captain. Lt. Commander will do. Quite nicely. Protector – well if the women you find don’t care find different ones. The LTR (40+ years) says that is one of the things she values highly. Dump solid and conservative. That is fine for financials. It is terrible for GAME. Outlaw biker is what you are after. “What does she bring to the table here?” – Pussy. You… Read more »
@striver
Man, you sound like 50 is quitting time. Never, ever quit on yourself. In the end, all you have is YOU.
@Seraph
Perhaps this help explain what your talking about.
Declaration of Independence (as a consequence of the need of some for national sovereignty) -1776
Bill of Rights ( generally based on the basic idea of the Magna Carta ) – ratified by congress in – 1791
I was just turned on to this website 1.5 days ago, and have killed my cell phone’s battery three times absorbing as much as I can.
My question: what advice do you have for single dads, for lack of a better picture, just beginning to swallow the red pill? Especially when I’m trying to raise a daughter to fight against mainstream feminism without destroying her feminitiy?
@Striver “Okay, you want to know my situation? Tell me how I can “DHV?” Yeah, just start DHVing.” You will have to read a lot of Rollo’s article and reflect upon them. But the basic roadmap would be 1. “Burden of Performance” : Rollo’s article search for it You might get angry at first while reading this article as many commentators did. But you need to realise that you have to always perform at highest standard, but for yourself. Not for your women, not for your children, not for the society but for yourself. Once you perform to your best… Read more »
@Matt Keeton:
Give yourself some time to digest. It isn’t easy and you don’t want to make yourself choke on it.
Buy the books in dead tree. Easier on the batteries and still the preferred media for study materials. They can also be easily passed around to others who might benefit from them.
Try to come to terms, as best you can, with the idea that your daughter’s school and friends will likely have a larger influence on her than you do. Do what you can, but don’t carry the world on your shoulders.
Hey Insanity, put your iguana in her cage. M Simon, It’s very simple to explain the middle east, it goes like this : One man’s religion is another man’s death sentence and add oil to spice it up. Here is my simple understanding of Capitalism vs Socialism : When you are rich, you become capitalist / conservative and you have no time for theories , you’re to busy making money by hiring more minimum wage slaves. When you are poor, you become socialist and plenty of time on hand to think and write new theories or you become an “artist”?… Read more »
@Striver
Once you are done with 1,2,3 do what M Simon says.
@ Atticus I don’t see how pointing out that commenters are reactive to female screennames constitutes “bashing”, it’s simply a fact. If they find being reactive to be a negative description, then I guess they should stop being reactive to that. However, in the past, when I’ve made substantive comments, half the commenters have accused me of actually being a man or at least a transsexual, while others are dismissive based not on substance but on my presumptive gender. A few responded/disagreed based on substance, and that’s to their credit. It seems to me that it’s in everyone’s interests to… Read more »
@Kryptokate “And I can’t agree that hurt and anger are ever useful to analysis of social issues.” Most of the time no. @Blaximus “Never, ever quit on yourself. In the end, all you have is YOU.” Shriver amp that by 100 go do things you enjoy. @Matt keeton Ask Rollo about his actually in your situation. Also kfg is a huge help listen to a lot of what he says and make sure to point out your ideals here as well. He’s a great guide. Buy both books and make notes about your life in person. @kryptokate “But if y’all… Read more »
@Kryptokate:
And as such, your point would have been stronger had you simply presented it, rather than prefacing it with a bit of passive/agressive, ad hominem rhetoric.
kryptokate – “Because if y’all are correct that the thinking and perspective of every female is fundamentally different from the male perspective, and that the perspective of an alpha is fundamentally different from the perspective of betas, then that should be addressable solely in reference to the substance of what is being said.” Mostly correct. The perspectives of men are different from women. Biology creates a divide. The difference between Alpha and Beta is perspective based on experience. Often that experience is as simple as being aware of what is really going on. The potential for all men to have,… Read more »
@Badpainter
“The potential for all men to have, share or understand an Alpha perspective exists. There is no way way for a woman to share a man’s perspective.”
Even if you use mirror neurons it still may not get through. Active listening only goes so far as well.
@Matt Keeton
Buy both books to make notes this will help so much more than WordPress blogging
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1492777862/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1434663114&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=the+rational+male&dpPl=1&dpID=51r%2Bu0XiwZL&ref=plSrch
Here’s the link to book 2 read one first than 2
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1508596557/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1434663194&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=the+rational+male&dpPl=1&dpID=517wI2hDn8L&ref=plSrch
Make notes in a notebook or for me I underline parts in the books as personal references.
http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/
http://therationalmale.com/the-best-of-rational-male-year-one/
http://therationalmale.com/2013/08/21/the-best-of-rational-male-year-two/
http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/10/the-best-of-rational-male-year-three/
“Just wanted to give props.”
Why not you just don’t and say you did…..beat it.
“Don’t have anything substantive to add to this all-over -the-place thread.”
Then why not keep out of it?
“Though I must say y’all are much more interesting, logically coherent, and evidently intelligent when you discuss topics that move beyond your anger at the cows for preferring to bring all the boys to the yard for a milkshake,”
The neg that was the real point of your yapping….
@Matt The first thing you should do is educate yourself. Read. read and then read some more. You really can’t ” do ” or ” change ” anything without an understanding. Some red pill points are harder to grasp at first, than others. Study hard and reflect. Keep what your learning to yourself until you build a good foundational understanding. The changes will come, everyone’s different and on a differing schedule. Explore. There’s enough here at TRM to keep you busy for a while, and there are other blogs as well. I’m biased…. This is a process. There are no… Read more »
@Blaximus
“Most information will be informative, some will be painful as you will see yourself portrayed. Don’t flinch or shy away. Take it in.”
@Matt feeton
Self progress and change is hard.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fZwDlkZsM5k
Constant brutal honesty required so much from the deepest part of yourself.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bFN16ynoSaA
Work work work and than some more work.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qVRiSb5fmCI
“I don’t see how pointing out that commenters are reactive to female screennames constitutes “bashing”, it’s simply a fact. If they find being reactive to be a negative description, then I guess they should stop being reactive to that.” (Yeah we should all just scroll through you and most will….in time.) “However, in the past, when I’ve made substantive comments, half the commenters have accused me of actually being a man or at least a transsexual, while others are dismissive based not on substance but on my presumptive gender. A few responded/disagreed based on substance, and that’s to their credit.”… Read more »
“Either way, one’s points should stand or fall on their own merits, and it’s a much stronger credit to one’s arguments if they can defeat another based on substance rather than resorting to ad hominem rhetoric, which is always a sign of the weakness of one’s ideas.” You don’t say?? So, now contrast the ad hominem rhetoric, the relentless attacks against anything female, and compare it to your former comment about “stating my admiration when someone’s intellect seems to defy ego and they rise above engaging what amounts to highly-articulate pissing contests…” Can you see the two alternate realities attempting… Read more »
@ Badpainter “The perspectives of men are different from women. Biology creates a divide. The difference between Alpha and Beta is perspective based on experience. Often that experience is as simple as being aware of what is really going on. The potential for all men to have, share or understand an Alpha perspective exists. There is no way way for a woman to share a man’s perspective.” This may very well be true though it is ultimately unknowable. The experiences of transsexuals who take hormones to maculinize or feminize themselves is the best evidence we have — far from perfect… Read more »
@Kryptokate
“Every guy I know like that has a crazy-high n-count, much higher than your typical alpha (though they won’t always inspire the feral lust an alpha does).”
That is very evident in the dance community as a whole.
“It’s pretty simple. This is a collection of broken and wounded men so terrified and threatened by the weakness of their ideas, they are incapable of discussing anything like adults.”
And why your highness keep “lurking” and trying to discuss anything. Don’t blame your cat for not understanding your feelings . Blame yourself for believing your cat understand you.
It seems odd to suggest that Marx was merely describing history in light of The Communist Manifesto, which is quite programmatic in its prescriptions.
Matt Keeton
June 18th, 2015 at 4:44 pm
I have a Daughter. She is 24. If there is something you can do I am unaware of it. OTOH I’m working on the culture by commenting here.
She is totally indoctrinated into equalism. Totally. I told her it wouldn’t make her happy. The topic is now off limits.
” I would suggest that’s because highly intelligent men are more selective not because they can’t acquire partners…” I would tend to agree with that as something that happens. On the other hand, I would tend to agree that there are a good many highly intelligent men who are, nonetheless, socially inept and wear their pickiness as a shield. “…spending time that involves any conversing whatsoever with someone an SD or two below one’s IQ is actively painful.” However, I would tend to agree that women find conversing with men who are are two or more SDs above their IQ… Read more »
Mr T
June 18th, 2015 at 5:01 pm
Try recalibrating you byzantine meter. The Israelis are currently not too covertly allied with the Saudis. They also seem to be playing with Assad.
Capitalism (market economy really) is not just for the rich. It is for those who want to become rich. Economies controlled mainly by politics don’t work well. Venezuela can’t even produce toilet paper. Let alone food.
Nothing is simple if you actually have to do some kind of design in relation to it. i.e. foreign policy.
@Matt pt2…
Oh yeah, and as your eyes are opened and you come to some conclusions, when you discuss them, from time to time, you will be called ” angry” and ” hurt ” and ” broken “. You really won’t be any of these things, so pay no mind to this sentiment.
Sometimes a stuck pig squeals the loudest.
@M Simon “I told her it wouldn’t make her happy. The topic is now off limits.” Well that’s familiar Note that having a large brain is biologically costly: the brain is an expensive organ to run, and large ones consume many precious calories (the human brain accounts for a whopping 20 percent of our energy expenditure). David Livingstone Smith, Why We Lie: The Evolutionary Roots of Deception and the Unconscious Mind Being equal in my environment equates to dehumanizing masculinity. http://www.npr.org/2011/03/29/134956180/criminals-see-their-victims-as-less-than-human Social psychologists confirm that we are likely to perceive people outside our own community as more alike than those… Read more »
@ kfg I think people who fall an SD or two below someone else are not generally aware of how much dumber they are…they might have a vague awareness that the other person is “smart” but it takes a certain level of intelligence to even be able to recognize it. Therefore, they’ll usually default to just thinking the smarter person is “weird”. They don’t really understand what it is they’re dealing with. So in women dealing with a much smarter guy, this might manifest as fear, I can see that. That’s how less intelligent women deal with smarter women so… Read more »
@Matt Keeton – oh man, I remember being you 1.5 years ago. kfg’s, Rugby & Blaximus advice is solid. Enjoy the giddy ride that is unplugging from the matrix. I’m a single dad and I have a 14 y/o girl. Rollo has a great post you should definitely read http://therationalmale.com/2012/09/14/amused-mastery/ That has been the cornerstone of my relationship with my daughter and it has improved our relationship exponentially. My advice would not be to try and fight against the FI (the horse has bolted) or to speak of Red Pill truths. Demonstrate through your actions & remove her from any… Read more »
insanitybytes22
June 18th, 2015 at 7:25 pm
Well no. The men here are not broken. They are raw recruits that just need to learn how the equipment works and the discipline to put it in to action.
It is the job of the CPOs (Sgts.) who hang here to impart the knowledge and teach the discipline.
Your hanging here without assisting the process is a sign that it is YOU who are broken.
This is Alpha training camp. Betas and FIs need not apply.
And I should add to my June 18th, 2015 at 8:46 pm that there are women who see Alpha potential in a man who like training that. One picked me in ’62. I was very lucky.
They may be 1 in 10,000 (4 SDs out) or rarer. I never ran into another in the intervening 52 years. And the one I met gave up her hobby to get married. To a divinity student. And Joan, where ever you are. Thank you.
Kryptokate June 18th, 2015 at 8:39 pm It is not the IQ. It is the Beta mindset. It is not the social skills. The LTR tells me my social skills have improved greatly over the years. I said, “From the bottom 5% to the bottom 25%” She said, “Yes”. None the less I can give her social advice on occasion. Advice which helps. And yet when I met her my “n” was well into the Alpha range despite the brains and low social skills. And I improved that score in the 10 yrs we dated. Then came kids and my… Read more »
@ Matt Keeton, These guys know what they’re talking about; everything they’ve advised is good. I just want to underline one point: be careful who you talk to about the red pill until you have a better understanding of it; I’d even recommend a couple of months. The reason is, when I first started unplugging I was dumb enough to mention a couple things I found interesting about the red pill to the wife. That didn’t help anything; in fact if I would have just implemented changes gradually I would have saved myself some grief. You never know who you… Read more »
@scribblerg,
China has recently put a propaganda piece endorsing Chinese husbands in the official Russian government newspaper. Said they’re a perfect match for Russian women because they take care of family, live a healthy lifestyle (i.e. do not drink), are good at housekeeping and serious about marriage. There’s been quite a few Chinese/Russian marriages before, especially in the Far East, and the consensus about Chinese men appears to be positive. Maybe the countries’ gender imbalances will partly offset each other.
@ crossphased – yeah very good point. Women AND men can get prickly hearing RP nuggets of gold. Just recently I stupidly blurted out a red pill truth to a plate I’ve been spinning – wow didn’t that shake things up. They quickly try to push back with the usual shaming tactics (you’re bitter, in a cult, angry, blah blah blah). I even get feigned concern…the “oh, I’m really worried about you” routine…lol
kryptokate – “I guess what I’m saying is that even if the average woman finds a high IQ guy weird or scary, he could always dumb it down so that she wasn’t aware.” Not weird or scary but boring. Boring is the killer. Dumbing it down doesn’t work well because it’s an act and soon the smart guy becomes bored himself and then the act will lose it’s veneer of sincerity. Following a policy of STFU works pretty well, but there is a lack of friendliness involved. Really the only answer is going darkside and using the smarts gap to… Read more »
@M simon everything whether Capitalism / socialism / fascism / dictatorship / feminism, it all comes down to Realpolitik. The ugly feminists/manifactured anti feminists women would dump all their ideology into the toilet if they get the same men that beautiful women get. It is the environmentalists who would dump their bicycles the moment they win the lottery and they would find a million logical reason for the change “of heart “. When it comes to politics! Just listen to any declassified tapes from any administration and you would think it’s like a bunch of high school gang. The difference… Read more »
kryptokate -“Most brainy guys could knock back a few drinks and do just fine for themselves with the ladies, so if they’re not doing that I think it’s mostly a choice.” Of course you do. But then you don’t have a male perspective or experience. Let’s make a few similar statements from your quote to illustrate: Most tall guys could just stand up straight and do just fine for themselves with the ladies, so if they’re not doing that I think it’s mostly a choice. Most hot guys could just say “hi” and do just fine for themselves with the… Read more »
Why is it super sexy actresses are not feminists (and don’t give a shit about feminizats) tend to focus their lives about animals rights (when they get older)?
As far as intelligence goes, I did read a survey that there is a lower partner count. Varies by individual of course. I am not blaming anyone else at all for my relations with women. Let me say that the moment has never come where I have made a drunken pass at a woman. I guess I would consider it an embarrassing display on my part. So it doesn’t happen. I got married when I shopped for a wife when I couldn’t tolerate my old lifestyle any longer. Parents were not helpful in this regard. Two emotionally conservative people who… Read more »
Striver, how much of TRM have you read?
@ stuttie I saw one guy I used to work with the other day, and during conversation was feeling him out for his red pill understanding. He started white knighting like crazy, talking about some guy he knows that divorced his wife and was cheating on her prior, and how probably that’s most divorces, and I thought man you have no idea. Was glad to find out where he stood though. Was talking to another guy at work that got frivorced. He was talking about how the girl he’s dating now wants to get married, but he’s pretty gun shy… Read more »
I’m bored by the anti-commentariat lately. Been too much enjoying the stop and enjoy the roses, cigars and bourbon lifestyle while soaking up some red pill wisdom dispensed by Nassim Taleb. Been fascinated by the regulars and the new commenters who are on board with the red pill. I’m in the process of simplifying. https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/06/18/clark-and-hatfield-study-men-are-far-more-open-to-casual-sex-than-are-women/ “Feminists — ah, fuck it, let’s just say all women — will never be convinced by logic or reason to accept that there are deep, abiding differences in the psychology of the sexes. Women are built by evolution to fool themselves as much as fool… Read more »
@crossphased Very on point just spoke with a dear friend of mine right now about the red pill. I only did it because he asked first. He’s having a baby girl in about 11 days. @Matt keeton Give this a listen http://realchristianmcqueen.com/2014/10/06/episode-25-interview-with-rollo-tomassi-of-the-rational-male/ @crossphased “It’d be great to have some of you guys that lived close enough to talk this stuff over and spur each other on, but in absence of that maybe I can rescue a couple and end up with a gang.” Me to brother me to… @Mr T “When it comes to politics! Just listen to any declassified… Read more »
@ cross – As Rollo states – “Unplugging chumps is triage – save those you can, read last rites to the dying.” I went through a phase of trying to introduce RP concepts to AFC’s that made excellent candidates for unplugging, but 90% to no avail. I think a lot of it boils down to the “can’t be bothered / tl/dr / it’s too much work” factors. So I mainly don’t bother now. I’m lucky I have two good mates I hang out with that are unplugged, read TRM and we can discuss our red pill experiences in real time.… Read more »
Forge the Sky, You know the script. Stick to it. Play her for practice. She will not be your future one. She does not have the fortitude to be worthy of a LTR for you. You know it. You voiced it. Practice makes perfect. Stick to it and what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Guy talk. Women need not comment. (Because they have no empathy for the male Experience, no matter how pithy their male put downs are, here.) Bed her again and move on. That would be a sublime experience. You got another ten years or so, to… Read more »
@sjfrellc
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 19th, 2015 at 12:27 am
Hey Rollo. Let me roam. I’m on your side. I don’t understand moderation rules.
stuttie, Some of the recent stuff. More on the Dalrock site, that tends to be more my speed. The sites have proved helpful in identifying characteristics in my soon to be ex. Some stuff applies, others doesn’t, still working on other things. Soon to be ex has a very strong personality. Probably attractive to me because of my issues with flat affect. Upper management personality, Type A. That was a mistake, they do not make good partners. Deep down cold streak. If you’ve ever seen the movie Up In The Air with George Clooney, when we met she had that… Read more »
striver – I suspected as much. Do yourself a massive favor this weekend and at least read The Basics in Year 1 and the 9 Iron Rules of Tomassi, (and understand Hypergamy) then come back here and hash some stuff out.
A few guys come and go here, skim over a few posts and don’t ever really fully grasp or internalize core red pill concepts. I’m not saying I have internalized everything (believe me I’m still learning), but I have invested serious time reading everything on TRM. And I mean everything.
striver – one more thing…..AWALT
It’s 1:40 here on the west coast and as I reread the comments here, I was thinking, to put it essentially . . . . . . . . I have to say I think Divided Line is a multi-vocalist equivocator with polysemous enigmatical tendencies. . . .Wallowing in the muckily muck of his self imposed epistemological grayness. . . . . with professorial deference and approval seeking with an anti West Po-Mo thinking. . . . . . . . IMO. . . void of principle, hierarchy and causality . . . . and an unwillingness to distill to… Read more »
“A few guys come and go here, skim over a few posts and don’t ever really fully grasp or internalize core red pill concepts. I’m not saying I have internalized everything (believe me I’m still learning), but I have invested serious time reading everything on TRM. And I mean everything.” Exactly this. @striver, Do you have good study habits? Treat this like a class, I’m serious. Take notes. Write down questions. Let your mind follow those questions around and figure things out. Then sleep on it. Carry a note pad, or use your phone to take notes. Likely your brain… Read more »
@striver, My soon to be ex is also type A. (plus depression, anxiety, and BPD…if you believe the head shrinkers) No, they do not make good partners. They will follow an alpha, but the drama is not worth it…easier chicks to game out there. (that or I am not as alpha as I believe lol) The most helpful posts for me was “The Medium is the Message” here at TRM. (can’t c&p the link sorry, just search it) Still, read everything. Dalrock is a good one to read. alphagameplan (Vox Day) is really helpful. The CH is good too (although… Read more »
@M. Simon – So well put regarding our founders and what they knew and intended. This response from Dividedline is standard leftist agit prop, and he doesn’t even realize he’s re-hashing ideas that were known long ago. The nature of our perceptions and the fallibility of reason etc. Fyi, just as an aside, if one considers religion as our first attempt at philosophy and a way of understanding men and the world, one can see that Judaism, Christianity and Buddhism contain strong views on the limits of man’s mechinations. We are to be considered deluded and “fallen” and flawed, hopelessly… Read more »
@KryptoKate – What is “status jockeying”?
Striver should emulate the alpha mindset of Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore
^^^Striver should…^^^
…listen to more Wagner! Nothing starts the day off on the correct Alpha badass path quite like German Power Opera.
And Striver, make sure you sit on your helmet.
I was giddy that Charlize Theron was back on the market… then, “But yeah, the older men get to clean up with the 40+ banged out whores. Hooray for that.” *pout* Striver, Penn was 52-3 to her 39. My gal is 30 to my 39. My gal’s sister is 27, with a 45 year-old. Point being, women like older men. Once I stopped asking women “how old are you?”, my perceived age problems seemed to disappear. Don’t call attention to it, and, it becomes a non-issue; simple as that. Although it may seem “amazing”, all it takes is “does it… Read more »
@Vulpine, remember, this isn’t some rule I came up with:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/03/05/half-plus-seven/
[What is “status jockeying”?]
You know, when you are developing your strength, courage,mastery and honor among men in a group of men.
@Striver – Kirk got all the pussy – stop being Spock. You don’t have to be Spock. Social intelligence is learned and fun. I’ve been going through lots of basic “game” videos by Krauser and RSD and some of their written content. It’s a great way to learn some of the basics of social intelligence. PUA is merely applying social intelligence to fucking women. And leaders are never “natural” – they insert themselves with volition. You can choose differently. Also, think about indirect DHV. The little specialty I’ve developed in my community of being the music guy for non-profit events… Read more »
The private ownership of property is an emergent property that occurred in numerous, completely distinct human civilizations which became successful on this planet. The “state” and government arise independently as well as a consequence of the ownership of private property, and are emergent as well. It emerges in at least 6 different, utterly separate human civilizations 6000-8000 years ago. Socialism is a ridiculous idea that is imposed top down, and is only possible in the age of large state and a global memeplex. Fyi, the memeplex arises from the written word mainly. Globalism and technology merely scale it up. And… Read more »
[i]Kirk got all the pussy – stop being Spock[/i]
you mean stoicism doesn’t work?
scribblerg – “This is why if you chart wealth creation (and a myriad of other measures of human wellbeing) you see an explosion of improvement as scale increases. And this all emerges over and over again, independent of top down interventions.” I’m guessing it’s also why top down interventions impede wealth creation, innovation and productivity. If applied to the SMP it looks like by socializing the provide/protect resources of men that the masculine quality of men generally has decreased as they have been reduced to mere tax payers. At the same time the feminine quality of women has likewise decreased… Read more »
Which is correct :
Capitalist Fuck / Socialist Bux
Or
Socialist Bux / Capitalist Fuck
?.
@ Mr. T
It’s a trick question.
The correct answer is Alpha Fux/ Beta or Socialist Bux.
Provider Beta, is he a capitalist or a socialist?
A fuck alpha, is he a socialist or a capitalist?
A woman who marry a good provider/capitalist and then divorces him. Who do you think was better at adapting to capitalism principles?
“The correct answer is Alpha Fux/ Beta or Socialist Bux.”
According to this answer,,
It means the beta is the capitalist? He’s the one with the capital ,it means, he is a capitalist/ beta who provide capital?.
The alpha is the socialist?
@ Mr. T Every society/civilization regardless of the details of its political or economic structure has its Alphas, and its also rans. That never changes. Alpha Fux is a constant of humanity, like violence, and fart jokes. Beta Bux is just a proxy for human labor, whether be involuntary servitude, or for wages the produce of the common man’s labor is the beta bux. Only the details of how that production is distributed differ. Your hypothetical is far to reductionist. The details of the legal system and social safety net are crucial to determining an answer as is better knowledge… Read more »
““The correct answer is Alpha Fux/ Beta or Socialist Bux.” According to this answer,, It means the beta is the capitalist? He’s the one with the capital ,it means, he is a capitalist/ beta who provide capital?. The alpha is the socialist?” Beta is the producer and provider while the low MMV Alphas are mostly parasites. All economic paradigms are BS. The only thing that finally matters is who are the producers and who are parasites. A system which allows the producers to keep most of the fruits of their labor will succeed and last longer than one which feeds… Read more »
Oh, NOW I know why the crazy feminists love Karl Marx ! , he was the alpha fuck and poor Adam Smith was the beta provider.
You know, I have no interest in capitalism vs socialism. It is a cycle, when the economy is booming, people vote for a right wing gang. When the economy goes down hill, people vote for left wing.
That cycle remind me in the menstrual cycle, it is best to understand it (like Hypergamy) instead of trying to argue about it.
Is capitalist the right system?
Is socialism the right system?
Is Alpha fuck the right strategy?
Is beta fuck the right strategy?
@ skribblerg Status jockeying is engaging in a contest to establish that you are cooler than someone. Or what sjfrellc said, that’s another way to put it, but same thing. I do not get the impression from Divided Line (or Shiva) that they care whether or not the ideas they put forth are new/original/cool/different/leftist/libertarian/rightist/supported by cool people/etc, but only whether or not they were true (i.e. better at predicting outcomes than competing ideas). Those are appeals to authority, hierarchy, and status, not truth. And some here have posited that an affinity for hierarchy and delineated relative rank is a masculine… Read more »
“And some here have posited that an affinity for hierarchy and delineated relative rank is a masculine trait in itself . . .”
As is independence.
@kryptokate I believe the context of ‘Hierarchy’ that is being used is as to the relative influence that certain ideas or philosophical underpinnings are shapers of history . . . . . . . . as appose to random arbitrary events and circumstance being shapers history. . . . with no underling hand at play. . . . . . . Another words, principle, ideas, or philosophical beliefs have NO ACTUAL effect. . . . . . . . . . . . i.e. Relative freedom and mobility in the United States as the CHEIF instrument of empowerment and wealth… Read more »
@ 70sAntiHero I’ve been trying to interpret your comments because I think you have some interesting insights, but I have to be honest, the stream-of-consciousness lack of grammatical structure makes it hard for me to understand what you’re trying to convey. This thread is really broad-ranging, but I believe there is a basic argument about whether ideas/ideology matter or whether history is mainly explicable through an understanding of material circumstances. I think Shiva’s points about ideology and religion are extremely well made. And religious fervor (whether officially religious or quasi-religious as in North Korea) is about the only thing that… Read more »
It may have been mentioned already, and I know it’s back kinda far in the comments, but has anybody mentioned the risk of a sex assault or law suit Forge The Sky was taking with that girl and the back rubs? Once you finally say that’s it with the free back rubs, especially since it’s being done in his office. That’s a prime opportunity for big ego manipulators like that to get one final upper hand shot at you.
@Badpainter “Every society/civilization regardless of the details of its political or economic structure has its Alphas, and its also rans. That never changes. Alpha Fux is a constant of humanity, like violence, and fart jokes.” This is very hard to admit but it’s patently observable. Mostly coming from beta to alpha. @Shiva H.P. “Alphas are mostly parasites” That’s also true which in part is what makes them the A holes the betas observe. “A system which allows the producers to keep most of the fruits of their labor will succeed and last longer than one which feeds the parasites.” Work… Read more »
Talking about the burden of performance: intellectually I understand what is meant by the burden of performance, but I’m having a hard time putting that into practice, and not just being ambivalent. For background: I landed my dream job 4 years ago. The downside is I have to work some strange hours, but I make more money than I ever dreamed I would for having little education. The job also is not incredibly challenging; I actually have some free time on the job. Since getting this job my drive to succeed and better myself has waned quite a bit, and… Read more »
@scribblerg “So well put regarding our founders and what they knew and intended. This response from Dividedline is standard leftist agit prop, and he doesn’t even realize he’s re-hashing ideas that were known long ago.” I’m fully aware of the fact that I’m re-hashing ideas that are 2500 years old. They’re good ideas. What we’re talking about isn’t a set of truths that we learn by rote. We’re talking about the lens through which you come to conclusions, the building blocks of analysis. You seem to get annoyed that anyone would try to connect the structural features of reasoning to… Read more »
Mr T
June 18th, 2015 at 10:52 pm
What you describe is not “free market capitalism”. It is oligarchy with voting.
Crossphased: What did you want to do when you were 12 to 16 years old?
@Atticus “How do you account for the success of Taiwan?” Well, look at the difference between how the Nazis treated Poland vs how they treated France. You’ll see this pattern with most of the European imperial powers in the 19th century. In colonized or proxy states, there’s a hierarchy. Usually the ones that are militarily stronger or important for some strategic reason get treated better than the ones that produce raw materials and cheap labor. Consider the difference between the U.S.’s treatment of Japan and its treatment of any country in Central America. It pulled the strings in both, but… Read more »
Striver
June 19th, 2015 at 1:00 am
It is not them. It is you. A stuttie has pointed out AWALT.
Shiva H. P.
June 19th, 2015 at 2:36 pm
All economic paradigms are BS.
The only thing that finally matters is who are the producers and who are parasites.
Incorrect. Incentives matter.
One of my favorite quote (sorry),
You don’t reason with intellectuals. You shoot them.
Napoléon Bonaparte .
Intellectuals confuse me, bear with me here,
“All men are created equal ” in response to his majesty the king of England and his aristocratic capitalists? The founding fathers seems to me as being “socialists”!
Now isn’t that a socialist logo? All men are created equal?
Revolutions are plotted by the rich or the poor? The poor of course.
Did revolutionary Moses rebelled against the poor?
Did revolutionary Jesus rebelled against the poor?
Did revolutionary Mo rebelled for the rights of Camels?
Shiva H. P.
June 19th, 2015 at 2:36 pm
6. “Don’t dare come back and tell me socialism is emergent. It’s not, it’s a virus in the memeplex that should have died long ago if it was measured by improving the human condition.”
If a mutated variant of socialism rallies people better than the current form of crony-capitalism then it will take foothold.
They frequently take hold. And then are replaced or die out. The incentives are wrong.
Mr T
June 19th, 2015 at 11:52 pm
A common confusion. You conflate “equal before the State” with equalism.
The State (ideally) is not supposed to advantage one individual over another.
Equal results no matter the effort or intelligence applied is equalism.
The incentives are wrong (for equalism).
M Simon,
“What you describe is not “free market capitalism”. It is oligarchy with voting.”
Can average Joe or his rich boss who are working in the “free market capitalism ” afford the millions they need to run for an office without the oligarchy?.
Divided Line June 19th, 2015 at 10:32 pm TL;DR – that given –> a Question. “Do incentives matter”? Will a man farm more avidly if he gets to keep the profits? Or will his efforts be desultory (“The State pretends to pay us and we pretend to work”) if he cannot profit from extra effort. No purely socialist state has found enough stakhanovites to make it work. Once you let profit in socialism has a rough go. It can work for a time among the genetically related. But even there it eventually falls. Because the incentives are wrong. Or as… Read more »
Mr T
June 20th, 2015 at 12:08 am
Yes. And very occasionally they win.
But it doesn’t matter. I don’t want to govern. I want to change minds. The “correct” government will follow.
Waiiiiiit a minute,
All men are created equal.
Feminists ! where are you?
Aren’t you gonna do something about the all “men”? Those misogynistic founders!.
@krypt “I think Divided Line’s points about material circumstances are also extremely well made and certainly much closer to the truth than smokescreen arguments about “socialism” versus “capitalism”.” This is from Divided Line : “The circle is falsifiable by logical deduction, but somebody like Popper would dismiss this as unfalsifiable metaphysical mystical bullshit. Is geometry itself unfalsifiable? So, apparently the circular, the triangular, and so on are figments of our imagination and the fact that their approximations are the only means we have of recognizing the apparent order in the universe or thinking about it in any way whatsoever is… Read more »
Divided Line June 19th, 2015 at 11:07 pm Clever boy. But you failed to explain Taiwan. But you are most fortunate. I can. In the American “Empire” extraction of resources is not the end of the game. For those who wish to rise in the system by learning production – that is encouraged. Egalitarianism means that your place in the “Empire” is not fixed. And that incentive (you can rise by applying yourself) greatly induces wealth creation. And wealth creation is different from wealth extraction. Another thing different from other Empires is that unruly provinces can opt out. And should… Read more »
Re: Hayak and the “fatal conceit” What Hayak refers to is the idea that any social/economic theory can be applied as a practical blueprint or course of action. He is saying that when such ideas leave the academy and convert from the descriptive to the proscriptive they are doomed to fail. This is because theory always rests in system of static descriptive models where the predictive element relies on the premise of “all else held equal” a clever device for analysis but impossible to apply in the real world where the dynamic nature of the seemingly infinite discreet decisions of… Read more »
These days an Empire of interest holds together better than an Empire of conquest. It also has the advantage of keeping the various interests roughly aligned.
Badpainter
June 20th, 2015 at 1:06 am
You have of course read his Nobel Lecture. For those who haven’t:
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economic-sciences/laureates/1974/hayek-lecture.html
So what organizing principle should we prefer: price signals and individual adaptation. What we in America generally call liberty. A minimum of government orders a maximum of individual decisions.
M. Simon – “So what organizing principle should we prefer: price signals and individual adaptation.” That is the desired set of results. The organizing principle is a minimalist legal system which defers to civil courts, exalts rule of law above whim, demands justice before mercy and is predictable and easily comprehended by the average man. That minimalist legal system represents the knowable risk of when the state may resort to lethal violence against the citizens and under what circumstances. This leaves the apparatus of state violence the space necessary to concentrate on defending the geographic integrity of the state. Where… Read more »
@M Simon “Shiva H. P. June 19th, 2015 at 2:36 pm All economic paradigms are BS. The only thing that finally matters is who are the producers and who are parasites. Incorrect. Incentives matter.” Don’t disagree with you at all. I just framed my sentences a bit more discrete. Read the following in conjunction, “All economic paradigms are BS. The only thing that finally matters is who are the producers and who are parasites. A system which allows the producers to keep most of the fruits of their labor will succeed and last longer than one which feeds the parasites.”… Read more »