I actually had another post warming up for this week, but I received the following correspondence from a reader whom I’ve promised to keep anonymous. I don’t do ‘guest posts’ on Rational Male, however I do repost some comments and email I receive on occasion, and in light of the recent discussions on the male concept of love and shit tests I thought I’d let this stand on its own today:
Rollo,
I know it’s been a long time since you posted your piece, “Soldiers”, but it struck a nerve with me. I’m not sure what kind of new insight (if any) you can get from my experiences, but I left the Air Force 6 years ago and have found the transition to civilian life much more difficult than I had expected. After reading your post and reflecting, I also realized that the values the military instilled into me set me up for a lot of difficulty with women down the road. I only wish I had something like your blog as a resource when I was 21.
I went to one of this country’s military academies at the age of 17. I am 31 now and am still friends with some of the guys I went through basic training with. The basic training experience was 6 weeks long, and physically and mentally very tough. At the academies this environment gets drawn out (in modified form) through the entire first year, where we are plebes and function as sort of second-class citizens beneath all upper classmen. There is a lot of adversity, a lot of animosity directed at you in such a system, but you come to realize later on it’s a kind of “tough love”. These experiences forced us all to bond with each other, and help each other out through some very rough times.
I spent too many years of my life hoping that I could find a relationship with a woman that would be on par with the relationship I had with my male military friends in terms of honesty, loyalty, trust, forthrightness. I ended and/or sabatoged a number of relationships with women because I was looking for this kind of “love” I had for my brothers and could never find it. I had always assumed that I would find a form of “love” that rivaled all other relationships I’d had previously. Loyalty was (and is) a major virtue for me, and I never felt like I was finding that with the women I dated. In the military I developed a pretty keen eye for bullshit, and every relationship I had with women, even the best ones, I found my bullshit alarms going off at some point. Now I realize what was tripping my bullshit alarm—hypergamy. Hypergamy is directly opposed to the concept of loyalty. I could tell when women were being shifty.
Part of the reason I could tell is because I had actually swallowed a version of the red pill as a cadet, though I’d never actually heard the term before. A few of my friends are what they call “naturals”. They helped to undo a lot of the extreme blue pill notions that I had been raised with.
Years of movies and TV and guidance from authority figures had trained me to look for “that special girl”. One of my friends in particular introduced the idea of being “kind of an ass” to girls, and only showing the nice side later (because I really was a nice kid). Never lead with your nice side, he advised me.
We also fucked a lot of girls with boyfriends. I saw some of the most disloyal and underhanded behavior out of women during that time. I remember when my friend was urging me to make a move on a girl we’d been talking to in a bar for some time. I said, “oh she has a boyfriend”. He asked, “well did she bring him up in conversation? Unless she brings it up it’s fair game. And you don’t address it either. Don’t say anything about the boyfriend, just keep the conversation elsewhere for the entire night.” It worked. Tactics like these worked over and over again, and while I enjoyed the hell out of this new found power, I was becoming more uncomfortable about the nature of women. It’s only due to my sense of morality and loyalty to other men in arms that I didn’t fuck the wife of an army guy who was deployed. I felt too disgusted with myself to go through with it… she, however, didn’t seem the least bit troubled by her marriage.
Fast forward to my adult life, I decided that I should be looking for a good woman to settle down with. See, I had never swallowed the Red Pill completely—I resisted the harsher implications of it. I told myself, NAWALT, and that I just needed to look for a good girl. The One. I understood so much that so many other guys don’t get, but I was still holding out hope for The One. I figured I would find this One at some point in grad school. After all, this is where all the smart, motivated, good girls are, right?
In two relationships the girls wanted to be exclusive with me. I said yes quickly, because exclusivity was what I wanted too. It wasn’t too long after that that my bullshit alarms got set off. One girl, leading into Christmas break, said she was going to a techno show in a city about an hour away from our school. I was planning on studying for a final, so I didn’t bother trying to go. As the date neared I realized I felt comfortable about the final and I wanted to go out that night. I asked to go with her—she said no. And this is where I could see the hamster frantically spinning its wheel.
All her reasons were obvious bullshit. I know when a girl is seeing another guy, because I’ve been the other guy. I know what the stories are like. I ended it. I was heartbroken. I wondered constantly whether I had made the right call. I missed her desperately, and I constantly questioned whether my radar had been off. My male friends (now thoroughly blue-pill, as I was attending a liberal civilian grad school) told me I was overreacting and being paranoid and jealous and not respecting her space, blah blah blah… A whole year later a girl I was friends with let slip that my ex actually was meeting another guy in the city, and fucked him the day after I dumped her.
No surprise—but I was quite upset that a few other girls I was “friends” with had known and never told me. They could have saved me a lot of grief. But then again, they were women—I don’t quite get it, but it’s like all the girls were sticking up for each other and covering for each other, even though they weren’t really close friends. It’s almost as if they felt they needed to cover up the tactics that women use, and keep the men from knowing about them—as though there was a driving need they had to keep men in the dark as to the true nature of women.
In fact, I have never been steered in the right direction in relationships by any woman. And this will bring me around to my next point—the feminine dominated civilian environment—especially academia.
The second grad school relationship followed a path that was remarkably similar to my first—in fact, looking back, I have had three major relationships, with girls who wanted to be exclusive, and they have ended because the girls were becoming involved with other men.
University life was especially difficult to adjust to. There was a lot less voicing of opinions and a lot more concern over offending others—that was one of the first things I noticed. I also noticed that many of the men seemed timid compared with my male military friends. See, this grad school was almost an extension of high school.
Approval by the females was very important, you could not anger them. The men were incredibly concerned with their popularity, and with getting to know the right people. I figured out early on that pissing off one of the cuter girls could lead to social death. And even apart from the girls, the men didn’t seem to act like men I had known.
There was a hierarchy in the school, and these young men followed the rules of this hierarchy. They would not challenge any male who was deemed to be “socially superior”. This blew my mind, because my military friends would never have accepted such a thing. We had a group, a crew, and we could always stand our ground, and if push ever came to shove then we might have to fight someone—if it meant protecting our dignity. I also figured out that physically standing my ground wasn’t socially acceptable in this environment.
I realize I may sound like some sort of thuggish asshole with a persecution complex, but I was responding to some blatant disrespect that shocked me. In the military, the men I knew wouldn’t openly disrespect or ridicule a man—unless they were looking for a fight. Actually, in the military I recall a lot more general respect between the men than I found in grad school. The grad school men felt like women to me—gossipy, petty. Overall, the male virtues that I had learned in the military became unimportant in the culture I found myself in.
Other values took priority, and I think this may be the Feminine Imperative you spoke of. Conflict was always to be avoided. Drastic effort must be taken to avoid offending others. Most of the men were willing to undercut each other for just a chance to be with one of the prettier girls. And the pretty girls—they walked on water, constantly had a harem of beta males tending to them. Actually, I watched several of these girls cheat on one boyfriend only to begin dating his friend. The social power of the prettier women cannot be overstated. I dated and dumped two pretty girls in a row (for the reasons I stated above) and quickly found myself on the outside of most social events.
I saw a lot of truth in your thoughts about military men. Some military men are some of the most Alpha dudes I’ve ever met. My military friends changed me from a dyed-in-the-wool beta to an Alpha that could fuck other dudes girlfriends with far too much ease, and stand up for himself (a modified pseudo-alpha, obviously I wouldn’t need to write this letter if I was a true natural alpha). But a lot of military men, Alpha though they are, have not actually swallowed the red pill completely. Somehow, I’d like to be able to get that message across, because there’s still a lot of NAWALT and One-itis in the military culture, even though it is a predominantly alpha culture. I am just grateful that I came across your blog.
After two failed relationships I was feeling like shit. I had tried looking for The One, and tried to have an Open and Honest relationship with lots of Communication and it failed dramatically. Now that I’ve found your blog I’ve come to terms with a lot of what had been plaguing me about women. I’m back to spinning plates, and I really do think it’s the best option for any male in today’s society. I’m still a little bitter about these red pill truths, but I’m no longer trying to fight against them.
I have a good correspondence with men in the military and it’s one of the more humbling aspects of writing what I do. I’ve had men on deployment send me pictures of their worn copy of The Rational Male on the barracks bed and I get chills. I’m glad I can help these guys transition from the idealism they have in the military to the often tragic Red Pill realities they encounter when they’re discharged.
This reader makes an interesting point I hadn’t considered in the Soldiers posts; there is a modicum of loyalty and respect men develop amongst themselves (even between different branches of the military) while enlisted that they believe will be relatable and respected by the women they encounter after their time in the military. They believe that the idealistic male concept of love (and in this case love for their military brothers) is the same concept women will share when they enter civilian life.
Young men entering into military life out of high school have (in most cases) 4 years to learn an idealism based on the Old Set of Books, is it any wonder they become suicidal after they are forced to come to terms with the disillusionment of that idealism in the face of the feminine-primary reality they enter when they’re discharged?
22 Veterans per day take their own lives.
@ James – Take your anti-semitic shit and shove it up your ass. @ Rhett – Your incomplete account of Islam and its history is an old saw, ever educated western Muslim recounts the same horseshit. I won’t waste everyone’s time here with 5000 words on it, but for people who haven’t bothered to study a bit of Islamic history as I have, just note the following – Islam was an imperial project from the start, while Mohammed was alive. He was losing his Bedouin warrior followers and realized he needed continued conquest and booty for them or he was… Read more »
The idea of “Loyalty” is really one of “Projection”. Guys believe in the idea of meeting a “soul mate” so if they offer “loyalty” they expect it in return.
I find myself bouncing back and forth between believing it should be part of any male-female relationship and understanding that it can’t be.
A man’s loyalty is rooted in the need to protect those around them…a woman’s loyalty is rooted in a need for self-preservation.
Rollo: Your correspondent, well it could have been my letter right down to being a stranger in the strange land of graduate school. I empathize: coming of age among men is excellent for becoming a man but does not prepare one for the onslaught of the FI.
Fidelity and loyalty; this is how men love. The idealization is not in how a man loves, but that a man thinks a woman is a man but with soft skin, breasts, and a vagina. That is a mistake that will indeed kill you.
@ Sun Wukong – My recent emotionalism and upset at seeing the RP world even more starkly has me come to exactly the positions you take on this thread over and over again. As for monogamy, today, the entire purpose of it is to preserve male provisioning for women. And the entire mindset is one that will cause you to have oneitis if you didn’t start out with it. A man who doesn’t spin plates will never be able to keep the upper hand with a woman, or deal with her with any kind of equanimity and sense of power.… Read more »
@Steve H
Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not trying to justify poaching a friend’s wife. I’m not trying to make myself feel better for stealing a friends girlfriend (Two things I’ve never done). Rather I’m coming to accept that 99% of the blame should fall on the woman regardless of what we may traditionally think.
Should it happen to me again, I can honestly say I’ll spend a lot more effort at keeping the male friend, rather than just washing my hands of it.
@Glenn Perhaps I should qualify a bit. We do have “Red Pill Women”, no? In my mind those are women who’ve managed to overcome a bit of the solipsism their version of the Blue Pill encourages and amplifies. The majority of women though honestly believe themselves to be powerless victims despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Hence the get the hysteria of rape culture, etc. That’s where I say they’ve had their own Blue Pill. Your own daughter is unfortunately an example of that, I believe you mentioned her claiming you abused her when you (having survived actual parental… Read more »
Example of female Blue Pill:
Make a woman in your life aware that her career, status, money, education, and other traditionally male achievements actually do not count at all in a man’s attraction. She will be genuinely shocked by that revelation.
I tend to agree with Sun on this one Glenn, women have been lied to just as men have. The painful difference for us as men is that the lies were far far less destructive to female sexual strategies.
Brody – since I’m the only other commenter in this thread to use the word “ethics” (3 times), as you put in quotes – where do you disagree with me? Do you have a moral/philosophical objection to a single man availing himself of female ‘professionals’? I prefer the concept of ‘ethics’ to ‘morals’, but I mostly agreed with what you wrote aside from that.
@Jeremy True. It’s far less destructive to their early phase sexual strategy, but it’s incredibly damaging to their late phase strategy of provisioning. What man who’s come in to his own wants a post-Wall “I DON’T NEED NO MAN!” spinster burdened by an alpha’s crotch goblin already, when he can go after prime ass still in its prime with his new found attractiveness? Women have been sold the promise of lifetime success for their dualistic strategy, but it’s turning out to just be a short term gain, long term loss. Women do need their own Red Pill to avoid fucking… Read more »
Why NOT poach:
Eskimo brothers and backdoor men always come in packs.
@Brody It takes some hardass hypocrisy and nuclear-grade rationalizations to rag on women’s lack of morals and wax about “ethics” while engaging in and promoting immoral behavior yourself. Since supposedly TRP is “amoral.” Bull. Uh, some guys go on and on about that. I don’t. In fact most guys that truly view TRP as amoral don’t. TRP, much like science, isn’t about right vs. wrong in terms of morality. It’s about real vs. fantasy. It informs you what the real world is in fact like. It informs you about the realities of hypergamy and the SMV. It informs you about… Read more »
@ Jeremy & Sun Wukong – What is this, Red Pill equalism? Let’s see, I’m told my sexuality is innately bad – women are told, “you go gurl”. I told that my role as a father isn’t really necesary anymore, but mothers are more worshipped than ever. Women have conferences debating the topic “Are men necessary?” I’m hectored by Emma Thompson (who I want to fucking drown, what an entitled, elitist cunt) to be a “he for she”. Should I go on? I do agree that this strategy is backfiring on them because like many female plots, the are fucking… Read more »
This thread suddenly veered off into the ethics of people, married or single, sleeping with other persons’ spouses. (A certain female blogger who, while she was single, pity-fucked a man engaged to another woman and when commenting about it on her blog, denied that she had breached any ethical proscriptions, could not be reached for comment.) Waaay up there, it was suggested that a person who has sex with a married person isn’t legally liable for that conduct. That’s not true. In some states, at least, such a person can be sued for intruding on a marriage, through the torts… Read more »
Sun – ok, fair enough. I still don’t see why one wouldn’t then *choose* to embrace a consistent set of ethics, and therefore be trustworthy to his fellow men, all things being equal. If a man lives in abundance, this is so. We are animals, but we are humans. We may be bastards, but we may be better than that, a lot of the time. Why not be better? I agree with Brody there. If on the other hand one lives in scarcity, everything is zero-sum and every scenario can be distilled down to rabidly grasping for whatever you want,… Read more »
@Glenn
I get what you mean, and I think you misunderstood and my motivation for viewing it as I do. To spend my time angry at others is to set an external locus. To focus instead on myself is to set an internal locus for my thoughts. Realizing both sexes are deceived is not a way to excuse women as much as a mechanism to bring my focus back to me and what I can do for myself.
It’s simply a method of releasing my anger so that I can get back to focusing on me.
@Steve H
A consistent set of ethics? Did you miss the part last page where I laid part of mine out? I believe what you meant to say was “Why won’t you take up my ethics?” and I just explained that as well: because they didn’t work for me. They actively worked against me.
Do not make the mistake of assuming those who don’t share your ethics never have. Many of us have. We just found that they would up simply being self-imposed limitations that routinely allowed others to screw us over and left us as societal losers.
@Deti, ethical proscriptions… intruding Insightful.
All:
To add to your understanding
of “ETHICS”
you’re robbing yourself
if you haven’t read,
at very least,
pages 183-191 (Kindle edition)
of “The Rational Male” by Rollo Tomassi.
@Steve H. …I still don’t see why one wouldn’t then *choose* to embrace a consistent set of ethics, and therefore be trustworthy to his fellow men, all things being equal. If a man lives in abundance, this is so. We are animals, but we are humans. We may be bastards, but we may be better than that, a lot of the time. Why not be better? I agree with Brody there. The whole idea of stealing and poaching assume ownership. Does anyone here believe “my” wife or “my” girlfriend is truly theirs? It used to be that way, but those… Read more »
@Atticus Not only does no one care, the consequences are ignored and the behavior is rewarded. Hold yourself to whatever standards you choose; however, the sad but true reality is it’s every man for himself. ^This Let’s not forget, those divorce laws punishing men and rewarding women are being maintained and enforced by men. Women can also play at being “Real Police Too”, but when it comes to force, men are the ones providing that force. And it’s the penalty of force that keeps us in line with divorce laws that punish men and reward women. When normal everyday men… Read more »
Not having served in the armed forces, I can only surmise that after years of honor, duty, and loyalty, the “Every man for himself” fact of modern America is what returning soldiers struggle adjusting to.
@thedeti
Was not aware of that, but then again it’s not a law specifically against adultery. It’s regional judicial precedent from the sound of it. I’d wager the reason I haven’t seen it (and most people haven’t) is because of the low damage/rewards and alienation of affections as you described it. It’s pretty much impossible to sleep with a woman in a good marriage. The only times I’ve had a chance and the only one that I took advantage of, in all cases the women were already checked out of the marriage for one reason or another.
Regarding this ongoing discussion of poaching:
It isn’t possible to poach a spouse/BF/GF who doesn’t want to be poached. In my experience, spouses who get poached expose themselves and practically beg others to poach them.
That’s not an ethical maxim; just a factual observation.
Deti’s right. Is it ‘poaching’ if a woman doesn’t tell you she’s married/taken? I’ve never knowingly banged a married woman. I have nailed more than a few guy’s girlfriends, but in every instance that fact was either made known to me after the fact or disclaimered away as “being on the outs” by the girl I banged. ‘Poaching’ doesn’t happen in a vacuum. If I didn’t see a ring or know anything better and a girl was DTF, it was on. I always read these horror stories on the TRP reddit about some girl who was on her phone talking… Read more »
Dude this blog and some of the comments are so “good” (on point) that I need to take a break from reading here. I’m almost ready to go back to a blissful blue pill ignorance and just go back to my blue pill days where I was able to get one LTR at a time (with cute 7s) with greater-beta (almost alpha/accidental alpha on some days) game. I’ve been aware of Heartiste and red pill for over 2 years now. When I read an obviously new red pill discoverer like some of the comments here…dude the anger just comes back.… Read more »
Sun Wukong: Pretty much spot on. Except for the exceedingly rare high T woman who prowls and sexes hot men for the hell of it, happily married women (i.e., women who are sexually attracted to their husbands; there is no other “happily married woman”) do not cheat. Period. Full stop. And yeah, you don’t see those “heart balm” torts much. National mores have been changing with widespread recognition that women are their own people, and can easily get out of bad marriages. No fault divorce, women earning their own money, “Marital rape”, et al. Legislatures started limiting the damages people… Read more »
@anon
Learn to just accept that you only know how things are. Reality is what it is and you can do nothing about it no matter how much you rage. Bring your focus back inside on yourself. “OK, I know reality works this way. Now how do I make that work for me?”
@Sun Wukong
They also give the hamster a lot of speed to salve the pain of their life choices after the fact.
And Brad Pitt has become the poster boy for the progression of a former Alpha becoming a supplicating Beta as a result.
He went from being People Magazine’s sexiest man alive to being a dancing monkey chump of the feminine imperative.
@thedeti Waaay up there, it was suggested that a person who has sex with a married person isn’t legally liable for that conduct. If anyone said that it would have been me, and I don’t believe I was saying that. I’m no law scholar, I have no idea what kind of nonsense resides on the books. I was, however, trying to make the point that I believe that male responsibility for poaching is almost negligible when compared to the SMP performance demands of men, the concentration of choice in females, and therefore the onus on women to essentially do all… Read more »
@Jeremy
Hahah, absolutely!
@NNJ
You religibabble types all sound the same. You’re also all easily dismissed as whack jobs that found a place where your mental illness is an asset instead of a hindrance.
@ Sun, thanks. Your comments and observations here are spot on, dude.
I’m a lawyer. There is no alienation of affections claim anymore. Even if some states have that technically on the books, you’d be laughed out of court by Judge Judy Feinstein, Esq. (lol) the second you filed such a claim. Also can’t prove damages.
Moral to the Manosphere Putting angel’s or devil’s wings on observations hinders real understanding. I say that not because I don’t think morality is important in the human experience, but because our interpretations of morality and justice are substantially influenced by the animalistic sides of our natures, and often more than we’re willing to admit to ourselves. Disassociating one’s self from an emotional reaction is difficult enough, but adding layers of moralism to an issue only convolutes a better grasp of breaking it down into its constituent parts. That said, I also understand that emotion and, by degree, a sense… Read more »
And have no doubt, in any family law case, your case will be assigned to one of the following judges:
– Judy Feinstein
– Sarah Goldberg
– Agetha Silverstein
– Judith Goldstein
– Lisa Reinhardt
– Judy Spielberg
– Lisa Rosenthal
Catch my drift? Do you think these judges know anything other than radical feminism?
Hypergamy doesn’t have time for loyalty. Women are 100% aware of their sexuality, from the way they behave or how they interact with men or the way they dress. The word liberating means : use your body to get whatever you want. You can put three layers of burka on them and they still can find a way to flirt. Feminists and sluts don’t like religions(I myself is an agnostic) it’s because it asks them to hide their bodies and not to flirt(gee they wouldn’t even like Satan if he asks them to do so). Look at how the ultra… Read more »
anon:
Oh, I think a woman could pretty easily prove up an alienation of affections claim or a criminal conversation claim. Thing is, she’d have to sue another woman to do it.
@anon
I’m noticing a distinct lack of hyphenated last names on your list, sir.
For the record, I found out that that girl that blew me last month had (and still has) a boyfriend. She didn’t say a single word about this or let ANYTHING on about it at all. I thought she was single and just looking for some fun. Just a little poking around on Facebook and I see all these comments congratulating her on her new relationship (back from December) with a guy that SCREAMS Beta. As I’m reading through all the lovey-dovey comments and seeing all the “Likes” on the relationship update, all I can think of is her unbuckling… Read more »
Nice comment Softek, I was going to chime in again but I’ve kind of exhausted the topic at this point.
I was becoming more uncomfortable about the nature of women. A lot of guys go through that as they “wake up” to how women are. Nothing to be embarrassed about – women are disloyal, and pretty much everything a man finds disgusting. The key is to just accept the nature of the beast and use it to your advantage. Never fall for any woman – you are opening yourself for destruction – you have to always put yourself first – that is what women do. Learn from it. Everything you have seen, I see every weekend when I am performing… Read more »
Rollo: Re your block quoting your pieces on “Moral to the Manosphere” etc. The point of your pieces is that discussing morality in conjunction with human nature impedes an understanding of human nature (and morality, for that matter). And that’s correct. That’s not what these guys are doing. These guys aren’t having trouble understanding the human nature underpinnings here. I’d say everyone here understands the human nature involved. What they’re doing is discussing how the moral principles which overlay that human nature affect the responses to the conduct. The human nature part is just what IS, what exists, and how… Read more »
“Pick up daddies at the playground How I spend my day time Loosen up the frown, Make them feel alive” Tove Lo So a few months ago I go over to a neighbor’s to pick up something. It’s mid-afternoon and the wife opens the door and invites me into the foyer. She is alone and wearing only a rope. I do a cost benefit analysis, and pass. She had plausible deniability since it was up to me to escalate. We had the couple over for dinner a few weeks later, and everything was nice. The husbands of the two couples… Read more »
Eh I run game on married women. They will sleep with me and rationalize away how it’s not there fault. Though the rationalizations don’t even seem to occur until they are faced with some consequences. Even if it’s just me subtly threatening to expose. If I don’t ever give them any consequences they just keep cheating with me. I’ve got two unanswered messages that I may get around to responding to from married girls right now. Of course in my blue pill days I never would have done such a thing. I would have been aghast at such implications. Now… Read more »
@StringsofCoins
And…one has to wonder if the 50% that removed themselves were simply on the wrong side of their cycle. Yeah, kinda scary.
@deti I’d say “yes and no” to your comment. The freshly unplugged do need that quote from Rollo. When they start to debate morality with me, I can often see that they’re still letting morality define reality rather than the other way around. I know I did that a few years back. Common societal morality more or less reinforces the Blue Pill for most people. To realize that the universe itself lacks morality is difficult, but is the first step to learning TRP truths and eventually rebuilding your own moral code in to something that works for you instead of… Read more »
@ Jeremy: “ I was, however, trying to make the point that I believe that male responsibility for poaching is almost negligible when compared to the SMP performance demands of men, the concentration of choice in females, and therefore the onus on women to essentially do all of the effort to remain faithful.” Yeah. There’s no real immediate penalty on a single man for knowingly sleeping with a married woman. What’s the worst that can happen? Hub finds out, says “don’t fuck my wife anymore”, and then beats the interloper to a pulp. But then if Hub does that, he’s… Read more »
Consider the case of conservative (former) darling Holly Fisher, married to a serviceman/vet. While her hero vet husband was deployed, Holly cheated on him with a journalist/Tea Party activist of some kind, named Joel Frewa.
Holly’s a shitbag. So is Joel Frewa (he HAD to know she was married). But Holly’s a worse shitbag than Joel is, because Holly was married and Joel wasn’t.
@deti,
Women wanted the power to have full control over their sexuality no matter what and they altered the marriage contract to do so. When and where have I ever agreed, even if this is somehow implicit in some social contract, which I no longer believe it is, to not sleep with willing women?
I never have made any such agreement.
So why should I try to enforce an empty contract that someone else agreed to?
There is no longer any social contract for me to not sleep with taken women. Nor you either.
This looks like it could’ve been written by me. The only difference was that I got a lot of red pill education in the military from another woman I was friends with. She was pretty open about how her hypergamy worked and would explain her thought processes to me. One time she told me that she wanted to sleep with a guy because she was scared of him. Another time she told me that she didn’t like a guy, who she thought was attractive, because he didn’t have the guts to talk to her (the diff between arousal and attraction).… Read more »
@Glenn
Seeing as you’re our biggest market/economics geek, did you get a look at this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2txawk/how_tinder_facilitates_smvrmv_price_discovery_or/
Amusing take on tinder as price discovery for SMV/RMV.
@NNJ, alright you get one more, then it’s christo-spam
“@NNJ, alright you get one more, then it’s christo-spam”
make it a long one NNJ, the others are too short to read (if you make it 6 feet of text some woman may want to fuck with it)
If the bible predicts accurately the 1,260 year prophecy, the 2,300 year prophecy and other prophecies how is it not inspired?
Do you know of any religions of systems of truth that can accurately predict events exactly on the dot even 50-100 years into the future?
This is how I know that bible is inspired.
The devil is a god of force. He uses force to win arguments.
Be nice if the comments system at least had an “Ignore this poster” for individual users to kick on. I’d have ignored NNJ’s first verse-vomiting crazyfest.
Does anybody read all that shit anyway? I mean outside of the Judeo-Christian nuthouse echo chamber, of course.
@ Sun Wukong – Great link. But price/smv is set by others voluntarily, without intervention, and it is not effected by externalities. So it’s hard to have a “bubble” in SMV. Bubbles are when speculation fuels wild price increases – like our real estate market. Or govt debt – the entire world is in the largest debt bubble ever seen and it’s central banks that are pumping it up. It’s govt debt this time and of course the underlying assets (Europe, Brazil, China etc) aren’t able to justify the debt load. Only zero interest rate policies make this sustainable in… Read more »
@ NNJ – God can suck my dick too.
I’m too nice, even Dalrock doesn’t put up with dominionists.
@thedeti But then, why is that single guy a shitbag? Based on whose moral code? Well, based on mine he is, for knowingly sleeping with a married woman. There’s no arguing with another person’s moral code, it’s like trying to convince someone their faith is misplaced. That might make it the end of discussion, except that moral codes are constructs of the environment we were exposed to while we were impressionable. And everyone here not over 65 definitely grew up with at least some significant blue-pill conditioning. Again, I’m not excusing or justifying anything. However, if the culture is changed… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong – Dude, your commentary is helping me get back on track so well. I had adopted the “selfish prick” mentality but somehow got sideways. Now I’m back and it’s all about me and what I want again. The anger and emotions take me out of that locus of control. I’ve talked here about how being abused as a child makes it second nature for me to allow a locus of control outside of myself to set in and this entire tantrum I’ve been having is exactly that. Thanks. As for these moral questions, I just have to… Read more »
@Glenn But what is salient here is the reaction and dynamics of the players in the Tinder “market”. I also found the concept of SMV to RMV currency mismatch to be interesting. It’s something we discuss here in a roundabout way (discussing a man’s floor for getting laid vs. what he’d commit to long term) but I think RMV would be a legitimate concept to consider. Basically “What constitutes my minimum ONS?” vs. “What constitutes a unicorn worth locking down for me?” Tinder does make that really clear to women, but they don’t understand what they’re looking at which leads… Read more »
@ Softek – Dude, I read your comment about being suicidal and making an attempt recently and was so upset. I have been that bereft and the desolation and sense of helpslessness and sadness is something most people cannot fathom. I remember this when in that space. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. And while it’s serious, ultimately, it’s basically just a loss of perspective. One has to hate themselves to kill themselves. Don’t you get how incredible you are? Can you muster up any compassion for yourself? Also, are you in the care of a good… Read more »
I am not a dominionist. I am totally opposed to united church and state in any fashion. It is against doctrine. The only churches who unite church and state are those churches inspired by Satan. And folks, this will happen, it is a matter of prophecy. It will happen in time. It won’t be the churches inspired by God that do this (unite church and state) it will be the churches inspired by Satan. The dark ages was full of torture and persecution. I heard the figure of 60 million killed during the 1,260 years of papal persecution. This started… Read more »
@Glenn Dude, your commentary is helping me get back on track so well. I had adopted the “selfish prick” mentality but somehow got sideways. I will always believe that there’s nothing wrong with anger in and of itself, but letting it get the better of us is when it becomes a problem. I’ve had it eat years, maybe decades of my life. When you feel like you spend a lot more time pointing fingers instead of considering or taking your own action, your anger has probably moved the locus outside. It just requires the self honesty and awareness to recognize… Read more »
This is why in the mob, illuminati, and satanic covens, they will use force to keep their members in line.
Confirmed for conspiracy theorist. Fucking idiot.
@nnj, You should start your own blog no one comes here for proselytizing. @sun, Tinder allows women to reject so many men so quickly. It’s female sexual strategy on crack and has to be addictive. During my brief one month on tinder I found that the women were even flakier then okc, also harder to get a non fat, non single mother to bite. I also don’t like the game. I don’t enjoy hyper sexualizing conversation with a complete stranger and that’s tinder game. The women I meet during the day are so much better quality then online dating. I… Read more »
@StringsofCoins Yeah, I’ve been in and out of online dating, but this time I’m out for good as I’ve realized how the market there works regardless of the site. Tinder is just the realist of the bunch. It acknowledges that people go on dating sites to look at hot people and try to hook up with them. Only women and HG9-10s can make this strategy work though, so it leaves a huge part of the male population out of the game. I’d say at my absolute best I’m a 7 possibly 8 on looks if I get my fashion together.… Read more »
Stringsofcoin – “I never have made any such agreement.” While I get your point I am bothered by that logic. What are thr limits of that sort of reasoning? I never agreed, nor was I allowed to negotiate an agreement that obligates me to not steal, defraud, rape, or commit other acts of violence for fun and profit. It seems the only difference between getting caught participating in an adulterous affair and say the husband assauting the wife and the poachet is the lack of any consequences for the former. I only bring this up because until marriage is successfully… Read more »
@bp, Those other things you list, the forms of violence, I have signed an implicit social contract not to do as they are illegal. I’d love for society to create a new social contract where infidelity was actually punished. All I see are people who refuse to abide by that outdated old social contract being rewarded over and over. And the people who follow that no longer existent social contract being punished for their foolishness. Don’t get me wrong I am deeply unhappy about the state of affairs and often desperately wish they were different. But they are not. Just… Read more »
@StringsofCoins …I have signed an implicit social contract not to do as they are illegal. I’d love for society to create a new social contract where infidelity was actually punished. All I see are people who refuse to abide by that outdated old social contract being rewarded over and over. Ultimately, life is what you make of it. The manosphere could just be a place where we all sob together as men in a testicular cancer support group about the broken social contract…. or… It can be a place to reorient our strategy based on how women are behaving. One… Read more »
Jeremy – “One of those choices is not effective at helping people live happy lives.”
Would that be one that involves trusting women to be decent human beings, and not duplicitous fuck toys?
“All that’s being done here is determining which moral codes “work” given what we know of human nature and of the prevailing legal and moral climate.” And don’t forget that only a tiny subset of such moral codes can enable the creation and continuation of civilization. For an excellent introduction, see: http://no-maam.blogspot.ca/2012/06/keynesian-sexual-marketplace.html Those who have created nothing, and cannot even maintain what they have been given, often talk gleefully about riding civilization down as it crumbles, as if they will end up in some kind of pastoral sexual utopia, even though the infrastructure and knowledge for life without electricity no… Read more »
“I’m back to spinning plates, and I really do think it’s the best option for any male in today’s society.”
Truer words have never been spoken….
@Sun: “The only way for women to stop participating I that system is if being straight with men would optimize her hypergamy better than earning points with the ladies will.”
Well said. No point in fellow men getting jaded and bitter…go through the motions (bitterness, pain, withdrawal…yes, takes time), learn that certain things, with women, are that way for very specific reasons, then move on. Everything else will fall into place.
“10×10, you are so close. Now take the logical step and name the true enemy of the West. He lives among us, shapes the minds of young and old alike, you call him NeoConservative or the Frankfurt School but I call him the Jew. Every perversion introduced to our culture;feminism, Marxism,Modern Art, immigration, etc. is fathered by the Jew. Part of Red Pill Truth is naming the true enemy.” I am SO FUCKING TIRED of the fucking infiltration of Red Pill sites by racist whack-jobs peddling their sewage. Go to fucking StormFront or whatever and peddle that shit. You’re the… Read more »
The military instills a great deal of military solipsism in men; this strengthens the incredibly important bonds among the military, but creates a massive blind spot when dealing with women or anyone else that plays political games.
Not if you serve with women in your unit. Their games get exposed and the tactics become an open book and quite predictable.
@sgtted
I’m sure. However, I was referring to the return to civilian life. I honestly don’t know of how you guys could handle this shit in an active war zone even if you were aware of it. I’d be too tempted to throttle a bitch. Maybe let her have an “accident”.
The military guy should at least be aware what he is to the world. US soldiers fight for the most reactionary causes that benefit only a very small slice of the super-rich. The last cycle of degenaration is openly supporting swastika-toting fascists like in Ukraine and the Islamists in the middle east. Yes gangs have a manly code of honor too, but is that any good? So the other side of this situation is the kind of women you’re going to see in this kind of society. Frankly I don’t eny US-Americans or Anglos at all but blogs like this… Read more »
I don’t think i can love a woman.The best option is turning psychotic and not giving a fuck about the outcome.Men need to realise they are TOOLS.Am currently watching spartacus to reinforce what men stood for…protectors and providers.Fail at that and you will not PROCREATE.
That’s not true, Redipilled.
You can be a thug and pump and dump and still procreate…
@eon I agree with you on an elemental societal level. Wives were property. If you tried to poach you got killed. Wife may or may not be killed depending on her remaining value and whether the owner could replace her or not. You don’t kill the cow for breaking out of the pasture. The commandment was do not covet the neighbor’s wife. The wives weren’t given a command, maybe it was expected that they would stray if they could. Like Softek said, men are the gatekeepers of commitment. The men come up with the laws to reduce violence between men.… Read more »
I can easily see a breakdown of relationships between men and woman and of society: 1. With online dating sites, like Tinder, OkCupid, etc., women, even average-looking women, only give attention to the teensy-tiny fraction of men at the tippy-top SMV (height above 6 feet, ridiculously high appearance requirements for men, etc.), and ignoring the rest. Sex and attention from above-average men is easy to get for even average-looking women, causing women to have an inflated sense of what type of man they can expect to get for commitment and marriage. Even with just dating and casual hookups, women have… Read more »
I think JF12’s ideas about Sexual Conflict theory play right into women’s rejection frenzies on Tinder. Remember, they are about resisting our approaches and Tinder gives them the ability to do a huge amount of resisting, if digitally. I bet if you hooked women up to some kind of brain monitoring apparatus, you’d find they get similar amounts of pleasure from swiping right or left.
(I don’t know if anyone else is getting this message when they use a wordpress account to log in, but a box popped up telling me “My connection was unsafe”. It mentioned that Rational Male is unable to verify its certificate as a WordPress site. I ignored it because I use a Chromebook. Anyway just thought I would mention it.) I have a request for a post. It is for a rework of a Rational Male post sometime back about sons of divorce that try to be “better than dad”. I would think you might have more to say on… Read more »
US soldiers fight for the most reactionary causes that benefit only a very small slice of the super-rich.
What is this, the kook thread?
SJW harrasment, which leads to inability for employment (noone wants to risk provoking their anger) and social death, is a kind od discrimination.
It’s very similar to STASI East German secret police bullying tactics, Zersetzung.
It is a process of character assassination and threats developed to persecute dissidents, a more sophisticated Orwellian form of torture that was developed to cause “severe and prolonged suffering” without leaving marks.
In fact, it seems as if they studied it after it was publicly disclosed (the fall of Berlin Wal in 1989).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
http://zersetzen.wikispaces.com/
@Striver So poaching without penalty may be “red pill” in the current framework, but it’s not red pill in the larger social sense. If the reality is that not poaching means you’ll be stuck with bottom of the barrel quality women, then red pill reality is that the only way to get attractive women is to poach. I don’t know where you get this “larger sense” ideal in TRP. It’s about seeing how things are, not how you wish they were. If you have conservative/traditional values that is where you’re getting the idea from. The Red Pill is not about… Read more »
Women have sexual strategies and married women know exactly what they are doing if they step out. They may say “it just happened” but it doesn’t “just happen.” If anything it’s the credulous man who needs to put his head on a swivel, have a clear set of rules for himself that a woman cannot influence, and know well how much of his heart he’s willing to put on the table. As Jeremy notes, “sexual choice” (SMP primacy) is owned by women now, they know it, and they act accordingly. This presents problems to any man with traditional expectations, and… Read more »
Seraph nailed it
sgtted, no kookery. It’s what you see when you overcome imperial solipsism and narcissism. Exceptional leader of the free world 🙂
Women are like that but the failure of anglo men to see beyond the coast of their lands has also created a new kind of internal extremism between the sexes. Divide and conquer everywhere.
@em
Let’s try not to get in to a discussion of the geopolitics of the modern military industrial complex. It really doesn’t advance the discussion here.
@Glenn
I would actually be interested to see that study. I should suggest it to my buddy who’s gonna be heading in to grad school for neuropsychology. I’m sure it would be pretty enlightening.
Actual conversation that’s gotten me a date:
“I have a boyfriend.”
“He’s not invited. I’m not in to dudes.”
Blue Pill Alphas.
That should be a term.
@Sun Wukong
“So far as I know it’s never in our history been illegal to be the other man ”
Actually in several states a paramour can be sued for what’s called Alienation of Affection, even if there was no breach of fiduciary duty on the part of the wife. Too bad my state is not one of them.
It sounds like this email was from a former inmate of Colorado Springs. I too am a service academy graduate and can attest to strikingly similar experiences. The major difference is that I opted out of grad school and decided to work in a male-centric environment. I stand by this decision; while I am poorer, I am immeasurably happier than I would be in a feminized academic setting. It also gives me a no-fucks-given attitude that makes spinning plates easy and carefree. I’m in agreement that while the military is one of the last bastions of masculinity, it does much… Read more »
@ Glenn
gt90345 at yahoo dot com
Ugh… so much emotion reading that post. I sent one of brother’s friends (5 years younger and only know him through facebook) to your site and Dalrock’s after a string of girls he went with (and fell in love with) cheated on him, while he was deployed and while here. He’s military and a very good guy. It’s almost like I could see the effects of what this man in the email just described – even through something like facebook. My husband reminded me of some movie that was made that relates this kind of thing, Jarhead… I’ve never seen… Read more »
What if women, individually, were independent of men for provisioning and financial support? More and more women are earning more than men in the job market. If women didn’t need men to pay their bills, how would this affect womens’ dating and husband selection behavior? Women would choose to be in relationships with men entirely based on looks? Women could be “married” to the ultimate alpha male (and even the ultimate beta male for provisioning), the Government. If a single woman desired to have a baby, they could merely go to sperm bank and shop for the best genes. Women… Read more »
You know, the lack of loyalty due to hypergamy would almost be understandable if it were just the hotties doing it. Really. I can almost buy not being able to resist all the opportunities they’re going to have because they might actually manage to lock one down if they can be sensible and not be a bitch. Like if you’re an HB9, you can have every single good thing this world has to offer by taking care of yourself and being a decent person. The opportunities will just come to you. I can’t imagine what that’s like compared to the… Read more »
This point I made on the first page bears repeating again: — There do exist women who are loyal. Commonalities to these women: they grew up in traditional, typically religious settings with parents who stayed together, whose fathers were strong enough to command the daughters’ respect and adoration. Then they were raised and trained from birth accordingly; never allowed to become feral. Then they married young and remained married to that guy through thick and thin. Many posters here can point to their parents who stayed married for life as examples of what that looks like. Some can even point… Read more »