Left Behind


I’m going to relate a real story of a good friend of mine here as an illustration of a larger dynamic.

My friend Rob was what most guys would call a ‘natural Alpha’ in his younger days; fit, smart in an unlearned kind of way, and to the guys who couldn’t appreciate his straightforwardness, he had the Alpha ‘attitude’ that made him kind of an asshole to the people who didn’t know him. He was in the military for a bit right out of high school and that seemed to work well for him since he learned to be a damn good airframe mechanic and parlayed that into a pretty good career for a while.

Although he was a natural Alpha, Rob’s approach to women was very much conditioned by the influence of the feminine imperative. He had girls who were attracted to him, but he had a tendency for ONEitis so once he’d locked on to Kim that was his focus. He would say “I would do anything and everything for the right girl” because that was his belief, sacrifice and support were his mandates before they’d even met. Eventually she ‘accidentally’ became pregnant when they were both 19.

Rob’s ONEitis took on the predictable sense of masculine purpose to “do the right thing” when she told him the news. They were young, and even 20+ years ago he was aware that couples married young had a very low ‘success’ rate, but as expected he believed he and his soon to be wife would be the exception to that rule. Whether it was his predisposition for ONEitis or his righteous ‘natural’ Alpha stubbornness, at 19 he was determined to be a good father and husband.

Kim was always the less enthusiastic partner in the marriage, but she wasn’t going to have an abortion, and while she was uncertain about Rob’s future potential at 19 she married him. 5 years later they had two daughters and then a son 2 years after that. I would describe their marriage as one of convenience except that Rob genuinely loved Kim and the kids. His Alpha attitude only drove him on that much further as a good provider, but as Kim and he entered their early 30’s and their older children became more self-sufficient it was becoming clear that she was subtly and indifferently distancing herself from Rob.

At about 29 Kim went to work in a middle management position. Up until then she’d been a stay-at-home mom, but with the kids in school (except their youngest) she wanted to get into working. For having 3 children Kim was in exceptionally good shape (too good of shape in hindsight), Rob had put on a few pounds, but still had his upper body muscularity. Kim was at the gym and work more than she was at home now, and it was something that even heroic-ONEitis Rob was beginning to be annoyed with.

Kim had new friendships at work now, mostly single women in their mid to late 20’s while Kim was almost 31. All of her new work girlfriends were single and wanting her to come out with them for drinks after work. They didn’t call them GNOs (girls night out) but this is what they were without calling them such. Dutiful Rob would look after the kids and content himself with beer and movies at home. Even as this became a more common occurrence Rob still clung to the heroic, supportive, father/husband/provider role. Rob still wasn’t what anyone would call a Beta, but in his ONEitis devotion and his increasing domestic role this is what Kim saw in him.

Kim went from living vicariously through her 20’s girlfriends’ weekend stories, to watching them from the sidelines at the clubs, to actively engaging in their escapades. I’m sure most readers know where this is going, and yes Kim eventually cheated on Rob. I had the dubious, but serious, honor of talking him out of murdering both Kim and a co-worker guy she’d hooked up with at 4am after he’d tracked them both to the motel they ended up at that night. He had the kids in the car with him the whole time we were on the phone.

Missing Out

I’m presenting this story, not as some precautionary tale to scare you into not marrying early so much as to better understand the other side of doing so. Anyone who’s read my blog long enough knows I advocate men not even becoming seriously monogamous until after the age of 30. I realize that for most men this is a pretty tall order, and for most guys untenable, but the principle is that men need to realize and actualize their SMV potential before they can accurately assess their true role in the SMP, and then, evaluate the quality of any woman they’d want to become monogamous with according to their Game awareness.

My friend Rob never made that connection and lived (and still lives) by what an adolescent social skill set and his feminized conditioning had taught him. Rob was enraged about the infidelity, but he took Kim back, they went to the ubiquitous marriage counseling, and attempted the typical negotiations of Kim’s genuine desire for Rob. Rob was still playing by a rule set he believed Kim should recognize and should appreciate (i.e. Relational Equity fallacy), but after 3 kids and “missing out on her 20’s”, Kim’s Hypergamy didn’t care.

At this point, Kim’s leaving Rob was just a formality, but the end came when Rob had an on-the-job injury to his back and he could no longer perform his job. He got pretty good disability, but it wasn’t what Kim had built up to making. Blood was in the water, and Kim went feral. Eventually she took the kids and left Rob to his own means, while she moved half a state away to “find herself” and get into the scene she missed in her 20’s.

For the men in the manosphere who want to use Game as a means to locking down an idealized wife, a lot gets made about marrying (or becoming monogamous) with a woman while she’s young – preferably in or just before her peak SMV years (18-24). Generally the idea is that if you can get to her early enough – before she rides the infamous cock carousel – and she’s cut from the right cloth for monogamy, then by way of a guy being the (hopefully) first Alpha she’s encountered, she’ll solidly pair-bond with him – bearing him healthy children in her fertilely prime years and remain his emotionally bonded, loyal and devoted wife for a lifetime.

I like this fantasy, as I’m sure most idealistic men would. In fact it might even be realistic for a guy in his peak SMV years (30-36) to pull this off with the right amount of status and Amused Mastery if his own value is well established. However, as per the story of Rob and Kim here, there is another risk to the ‘marry young’ scenario and that’s what I call the Left Behind dynamic.

Left Behind

In contemporary western society, even the most farm-raised, home schooled of girls are still going to be incessantly bombarded by the ‘be all you can be’ (previously ‘you can have it all’) social advertising the Feminine Imperative has for girls. Raising a daughter in such times (and I speak from experience) is fraught with risks of appearing to be limiting her potential while attempting educate her about the real limitations of women’s fast-burn SMV and the choices she’ll have to make very early in her life that will affect her later life once she’s past those peak years. I should add that for a father to even hint at these limitations publicly makes him instantly guilty of misogyny, patriarchy, male privilege oppression and every other male-crime the Feminine Imperative has a long established name for. However, even mothers will be accused of being domineered by that patriarchal mindset for attempting to educate their daughters about the real limitations of being a woman today and choosing between different life paths.

With this as the foundation, the inherent risk of finding, not to mention wifing-up, the ideal young girl, predisposed to marriage (unplanned pregnancies not withstanding) is that as a she matures, a woman begins to question the choices she made. While it’s almost a cliché now to breakdown the life path that led to the regret of never-married or divorced aging spinsters in the age of career women, the other side of that coin is the early-married woman contemplating ‘her life that could’ve been’ and the motivation to change her path. It’s easy to find fault with women who delayed accepting a marriage proposal for their own SMV convenience or self-interest, but it’s the early-married Kim’s of the world who are far more susceptible to the Eat, Pray, Love script as they approach the downslide of their SMV.

Ironically it’s the same feminine-primary social influence that encourages ‘be all you can be’ (and demeans her for not living up to her girl-power potential) that also embraces her when she re-plots her life course after leaving the husband of her youth. Mix in her single and divorced friends’ encouragement with fem-centric social promptings and top it off with an innate Hypergamy that never stops subconsciously asking “is this guy the best you can do?” after 12 years of marriage and you can see why she’d feel left behind.

As a Game aware, red pill Man it’s imperative that you consider both sides of a woman’s choices and adjust your Game accordingly. Half the reason I made the rough attempt at graphing the SMP and men and women’s SMV’s respective to each gender’s age is so men could predict and expect the behaviors, mindsets and social variables women will be susceptible to at various phases of their lives. It is, however, important, to consider the choices women have made in the lives they led before and after they meet you. It’s becoming increasingly too easy for men to think, “damn, if only I’d have met her when she was younger and inexperienced, she’d be more attached to me now.” This isn’t always the case.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

136 comments on “Left Behind

  1. Seen that with my cousin. He married his high school sweetheart. They had three kids. I guess she did it the legitimate way, got divorced first (as far as anyone knows) before hooking up with a musician.

    I find it somewhat amusing that she refuses this day to speak to her own father or let him see his grandkids because he cheated on her mother and broke up the family.

    I can’t really see that it makes much difference to the kids in this situation in what order mommy left daddy and hooked up with someone else.

  2. So, a guy who only bangs one girl and marries at 19, then stays in the sofa and drinks beer alone at night is alpha? Right….

    The dude is a classic dominant delta.

  3. If he had played his game right, and listened to you, he probably would have been still married, and his wife would have a huge grin on her face! Obviously, he didn’t do any proper research on the beauty of gaming your wife – and stating the law in his house of ‘order’ –

    And by the way – he should’ve never had sex outside of marriage in the first place / but since he did / he should’ve never let her get a job outside the house! 😉

  4. I don’t know, seems like the possibility of execution would be an effective way to keep wives in line. Seems harsh, but husbands are subject to physical force by the state to fulfill their wives’ wishes, and if the state doesn’t enforce the other side of the contract, then informal enforcement is only natural. If a guy is not that kind of person, if he can’t do the time, well then he shouldn’t do the crime by getting married.

  5. An important perspective. As I have said before, the naive inexperienced virgin is just hypergamy waiting to happen. And it is something I think about in raising my daughter: how to guide her down some sort of middle road so she has enough experience but not too much.

  6. It’s the curse of technology combined with hypergamy.

    The Amish have it right,no phone,no car,no television.

    It’s bad enough when they take the horse and carriage to town.

    One needs to keep them down on the farm away from gossipers and would be adulterers.

    Get them out in fly over country isolated and watch over them like the children they are.

    Since that is impossible,except that all relations are transitory and that your wife wants variety and will do any aggressive decent looking male that can get a moment with her on the side.

    Game theory verifies this,so screw you to all the commentators who claimed if he had gamed her she would have stayed.

    Regular sex with the same person gets boring,game is all about sex with the NEXT man.

    This post is almost enough to forgive Rollo for saying men need sex.

    Like a bank needs a robber.

  7. Well when we all live in a sewer…what is the chances of finding a clean fish?

    He also did in this relationship with the premarital sex too. It fogged his mind.

  8. “Regular sex with the same person gets boring,game is all about sex with the NEXT man.”

    Women are fed the idea constantly that life should be a non-stop amusement park.

    But even if you go to an amusement park everyday of your life…you’ll get bored and tired of the roller coasters.

  9. 1. No matter the dynamic, it makes no sense to get married today, regardless of sexual history, age, or the feminine imperative. The court structures will tear the husband apart. The reward is not worth the risk.

    2. Assuming number 1 were fixed, the statistics still show that carousel riders get divorced more than those who marry their first sexual partner.

    3. I think you are only partially accurate in assessing the cause of Kim’s cheating. Her husband was not a contextual alpha. He has to keep that alpha going, into his 30’s and beyond.

    I know a man and wife who were high-school sweethearts. Chris and Cris (Yea I know). He was the football player jock and she was the hot girl in her class. Today, 21 years after graduating, they are still together, despite her literally being brought up during the height of feminism, hyphenated names, etc,…

    Why? Because he want on to make something of himself. Great job, great money, amazing shape. Girls love him. He has options, and his wife knows it.

    I think Kim and Rob is more a case of Alpha turns to domesticated beta. You can see this in his original mindset. If Rob had kept moving forward, I doubt Kim would have entertained anything other than him.

    Eat Pray Love, Sex and the City, Cougardom……they all have a general pull on women to go and relive their youth. But the trick is your pull has to be that much stronger. It can be done.

    Now, I am not saying men should go out and get married at 20 years old or anything. I say this to keep the point that men can still go out and make something of themselves, but still demand a chaste wife if he makes the poor decision of marrying, as opposed to hooking up with a college graduate who has slept with a couple of Fraternitys.

  10. What you are writing about right here is why I’m so scared to get married. It’s like signing your life over to a person walking around with a stick of dynamite. As soon as they want to light the wick, you’re whole life gets blow to pieces.

    You read this and all you can say to yourself is “women suck.”

    I’m mid 30’s and making north of 150k and have no wife, no kids and little to no liabilities.

  11. This article made me think about a girl I’m currently seeing. Red pill for a year now and I know the statistics so I’m 95% certain I won’t keep her in an LTR due to the carousel she rode (25-30). However, she has many fantastic house wife traits (cooks me elaborate dinners and does the dishes, makes the bed etc…), tells me she loves me everyday, is truly concerned for my welfare and happiness and says she’s never cared to do such things for other men. I’m making her lose weight and she’s constantly worried about if I’m attracted to her (she’s a soft 7, hard 8 once the extra 10 lbs is gone).

    She’s 26, same as me, and she’s well aware of the wall; she’s already talked about kids and marriage before she’s 30. I decided to play her and nod along, but I don’t plan on either. I’m convinced these housewife activities and traits are just her gaming me to put a ring on it so she can get fat and live off me. She knows I have a lot of options, she constantly snoops on me, and I think she’s betting on my ambition of making it big, which I will. I only recently checked out her phone and FB and she really isn’t talking to any other men. But a small amount of me thinks because of a few severe events maybe I do inspire her to be better and that she would be loyal in a LTR, and this would allow me to really focus on my life for a while.

    Is it possible that a good girl gone bad can truly regret all of her bad decisions with the approach of the wall and value a good, alpha man more since she’s been with so many losers? Or will she always crave those wild times and she’s just considering me as a stable husband/provider? If the latter is the case, does she see me as a beta? I know I’ve played a bit of beta game, and actually beta backslid once or twice, but I know that compared to some of the men she’s been serious with before I’m much more alpha, and everyday my alpha grows. Should I stay with her for the time being and focus on my life or should I next her right away and juggle wealth creation with bar life?

    Last question; for the men I’m not familiar with, any tips to find out for sure that I’m alpha in her eyes or any way to know that I’ve fucked up one to many times for her to desire me throughout an LTR?


  12. I really cannot fathom this female need to constantly re-evaluate their life and seek to somehow reverse decisions made decades ago. There are, after all, two ways of looking at YOLO. You can look at it fatalistically and infer that because you only live once, you need to simply turn off any filter and consideration of consequences and just experience everything available. Or you can look at it through the eyes of future historians, and recognize that future people smarter than you will eventually be analyzing how you lived your life, so you’d better make the best of what you’re given, or be considered scum by your progeny. Can many people say they have not investigated their parents, grandparents, even great-grandparents lives and wondered how they lived? Can many people say they have not cast judgement on the mistakes of their forebears? What will your grandchildren think of you when they’re forced to admit to themselves that you divorced 3+ times? They’ll probably think you insane.

    I believe I’ve got a firm grasp on the innate hypergamy, but why let that hypergamy drive you to try to undo what has been done? This young wife you describe in your story. Her hypergamous thoughts led her to consider the husband she had as sub-standard, and a “mistake”, but not in any conscious way perhaps. Rather than use any rational thought as to why she was unhaaapy, and use any words between her family members to improve her feelings on where she was, she just acted.

    Why does hypergamy lead to such instinctive behavior? Why does it block so much rational thought? Why do such women not consider the true path they set themselves on when they put their instincts in front of the families they’ve created?

  13. OK, Rollo, I’ll bite:

    Your article implies that marrying a girl young, then letting her get into corporate america is a mistake. Hell, you could read into your article that just letting your woman work in corporate America is a mistake, and I wouldn’t disagree with the reading or the sentiment.

    But what about the idea of marrying a younger woman? Set aside for a minute the risk of getting divorce butthexed from marriage in general. Let’s look at the risks of just marrying or LTR’ing younger women, specifically for us late 30’s peak SMV guys.

    How can we mitigate risk?

    Some ideas:

    1. Don’t marry, only cohabitate.
    2. Dread game.
    3. Maintain hand.
    4. Avoid one-itis.

    Anything specific to younger women? Screening techniques? Gut feeling?

  14. “I’m mid 30′s and making north of 150k and have no wife, no kids and little to no liabilities”

    Sounds like a great deal to me Tampa!!

    When women get older, their rationalisation hamster goes into overdrive. They also tend to lie to themselves and others about their past choices. For example, i’m 34, and this girl i really wanted in my mid 20’s didn’t show much interest in me beyond friendship. Now that i’m more established–not rich, but comfortable–with a house paid off, she tells me that she wishes i asked her out back in the day; how she was waiting for an offer. BULLSHIT!! I told her that was bullshit to her face. She was busy chasing taller, more handsome guys, now she is trying to convince me that what she really wanted was a (formerly) ‘nice guy’ like me all along?

    Granted this woman was a little above me SMV wise back in those days, but today, honestly, she isn’t, and i could care less about her now. I don’t want her now, i wanted her then. I’m busy trying to get my meat hooks into a 25 year old girl from China who i met through a mutual friend recently.

  15. Men always had to work hard to land a good quality wife, but given all the incentives and messaging to women from their friends and the media, men have to work increasingly hard over time to keep her, despite her declining SMV.

    The longer they are hitched, the more she can convince herself she is missing out in a big way. A woman who is 40 and married for 12 years likely thinks she’s missed 12 years of The All Male (Executive) Review, and her future is going to be all about all the hot sexytime fun she will miss out on if she stays with the father of her children and the guy who pays for the four bedroom house in the ‘burbs. It’s another 5, 10, or 20 years of missing out… oooooh, the sadddness. Her husband, on the other hand, is married to a woman of steadily and noticeably declining SMV, who requires ever increasing amounts of work to keep Haaaaapy and present, if not actually committed to the relationship.

    She’s in thrall to a delusion and won’t be *made* happy by anything the man does, so why bother? Seems to me that men who have their shit together have good incentive to strike first and leave on their own terms (to the extent family court permits it) once she starts showing telltale signs of discontent.

  16. By the way, being alpha isn’t just for “relationships”. It’s a way of life. Jobs, friends, decisions about every day things. It becomes so natural that it just “is” once you get it down. S##t will still happen that will test you. That doesn’t change. A good friend of mine is often beta. His wife has him on the leash. She doesn’t like me much. She can sense how I feel about his situation. We don’t talk about it. When she’s not around my friend is alpha. When she’s around he goes beta.

  17. I’d replace the world alpha..with dominance or leadership.

    The way of life any man should take with any endeavor is dominance and leadership. I’d rather die going that route…than live a life of submission and passivity.

  18. Very astute analysis, and I completely agree. One thing I’ve learned is there are 2 sides to every coin. In a way, being with an attractive girl on the other side of 25 after she’s been through a string of failed relationships and being ‘screwed over’ enough times has it’s BENEFITS. The benefit is by contrast, she’ll appreciate what you provide her. At the same time, she’s experienced enough (a dubious term at best) to not question ‘what if’ because she already KNOWS what’s out there.

    We tend to think that wifing up a nubile chick fresh out of high school is the creme de la creme and biologically this may be so, but over the long term she WILL wonder ‘what if’ and that can be dangerous. It’s a complex equation, but I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle – finding a woman who’s still young and attractive, but one who’s had X experiences to satisfy any nagging doubts, so when you come along and you’re a million times better than ‘those other guys I dated’, she’ll be head over heels.

    What you describe in this post is EXACTLY the danger of marrying without experience.

  19. @Muscleman

    We tend to think that wifing up a nubile chick fresh out of high school is the creme de la creme and biologically this may be so, but over the long term she WILL wonder ‘what if’ and that can be dangerous. It’s a complex equation, but I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle – finding a woman who’s still young and attractive, but one who’s had X experiences to satisfy any nagging doubts…

    This may be absolutely true for this society at this time, but it’s no way to run a culture.

  20. “but the principle is that men need to realize and actualize their SMV potential before they can accurately assess their true role in the SMP, and then, evaluate the quality of any woman they’d want to become monogamous with according to their Game awareness.”

    This was the hardest aspect for me to come to terms with, but simply put, at least for me it crystallizes what many guys have told me in the past.. that i couldn’t dare comprehend before but see it now for the truth it holds.

    “Never be with someone you can’t envision walking away from.”

    I always thought this line was in reference to a specific person.. but it really refers to ONEitus.. ONEitus IS the feeling of someone being ‘the one’ that you can’t walk away from.

    I really like my current girlfriend.. dare say i love her now. I feel more for her than i do my exwife. But having taken the redpill and up’d my game, and my smv rank and knowing where i fit within it.. i know that if shit hit the fan tomorrow, i could walk away from this woman who is leagues beyond whatever my wife was.

    Yet i felt so much pain and misery leaving my exwife, a pain and misery i would not feel if i left my current GF.

    It’s not about the quality of the woman, it’s the ONEitus. If i was still bluepill, my current GF would be even harder to leave/walk away from than my exwife.

    The redpill allowed me to actualize my SMV potential and assess my proper place, thus allowing me to make proper decisions instead of being a slave to a fantasy. And by knowing i can walk away without having my life end or fall apart allows me the freedom to maintain the frame that my current GF loves. Win win.

    “Never be with someone you can’t envision walking away from.” It felt so cruel and harsh the first time i ever heard that line. How could you love somoeone AND be able to walk away from them without your life ending?

    I was truly infected by the script of the feminine imperative.

    The sphere cured me.

  21. I’m with Revo, her going to work did not cause the hypergamy overdrive problem, the problem was there all along and would have come out some other way even if she didn’t go back to work. But this story does give pause to the more religiously-oriented insistence on marrying an “uncorrupted” virgin whie still young – obviously no guarantee of anything if you do not keep the Game going after putting a ring on it.

  22. Speaking of hypergamy, a recent study shows what we all know, that hotter men are having more sex partners than less-hot men. Interestingly enough, the female N slightly declines with increasing attractiveness.

    What does this mean? Well, for one it means that the lesser women are getting some of their N from the hotter guys.

    Plus there was the interesting delusion of many of the women that they they thought they were in an exclusive relationship while the men thought it was sex only.

    Not surprisingly, the hottest men were the most likely to consider themselves in sex-only relationships and some of these women come from the less-attractive-than-the-men categories.

    You can see my post on this at the link in my username.

  23. @ Kate

    An important perspective. As I have said before, the naive inexperienced virgin is just hypergamy waiting to happen. And it is something I think about in raising my daughter: how to guide her down some sort of middle road so she has enough experience but not too much.

    I do hope this is a joke. If you honestly think that your daughter having a higher N is going to actually help her, then you must be willfully blind.

    This phenomena which Rollo relates can happen to any woman, regardless of her N. It can happen for a number of reasons. One is her husband becomes less attractive. Two is that her expectations and self-perception (especially her SMV) become warped by her environment. Third is that the woman loses all appreciation for how good her life is, and cannot recognize any longer the danger of leaving her man.

  24. Don’t get married. Don’t get married. Don’t get married.

    Don’t pull the pin on that grenade and it won’t blow up in your face.

  25. To me, the key here, first, is NEVER consider marriage until you have an N count higher than 30.

    If an “accidental” pregnancy happens to you, you need to be aware that there are physiological tricks being played on you that are just as serious and villainous as “love” is. You must learn to play hardball.

    Understand that this phenomenon is biologically and psychologically entrenched in you and even psychiatrists recognize it as “Baby Shock” or “Baby Trap”. You undergo a sustained “fight or flight” response. And often it shocks a man into taking actions, under the fog of chemicals, that will be detrimental to his life.

    Understand that today, the birth rate among both teens and young 20s is plummeting. And it is, exactly, because women understand how damaging to the marketability and ability to gain “cash and prizes” that a baby causes. And even Fat 5s are foregoing “traps”. So you should assume that any girl that springs a pregnancy on you is trapping you.

    Resist, that biological and cultural conditioning “to do the right thing”. Do not over react.

    Work on this, put it in your mental “muscle memory”.

    We she says “I’m pregnant.”

    You say “Congratulations” and nothing else. Nothing. “Congratulations”.

    Then get away from her immediately. Cut contact. I would ghost as much as possible. Play on her fears and emotions. Make it non-negotiable that you will not marry and intend to cut her out of your life. Force her to understand, that having this baby, and trapping you into a “marriage” is not possible. That she will be alone. She will pay a cost. A typical woman in this country has no qualms about abortion and you can see it from the political pressures applied even today for late term murderous abortions. And a young woman that insists on it probably hiding behind some convenient, newly found, born again morality, is forcing you into a provider role.

    And before you jump me, remember you are probably, statistically, being played, manipulated, trapped by a women that cares nothing about your future, that wishes to enslave you and will possibly destroy you later on.

    Refuse to play into it. Actually I would verbalize that at some point early on in any relationship that you refuse to be trapped. Make up some story about another guy that got trapped and how you would not go there. Or some sinister girlfriend that tried a fake Baby Trap and you and you would walk if anyone tried that again. If she has issues and walks, big deal, Next.

    That “What if” stuff can and will happen to you also if you are involved in some very committed LTR, pre-25. Especially if your physical development follows the Rollo SMV graph. I was a very late bloomer, being blond, and inherently thin. And I went into the Marines and that put my whole sexual maturity on hold for 4 years, and imposed a “scarcity model” mentality on me that took years, even being in a target rich environment like a massive top tier university, to overcome. After getting out of the Marines and being beta as a motherfucker, I struggled, floundering around, to find a girlfriend and pulled some pretty stupid sniper shit for a few months into my first semester.

    Finally, I latched onto a girl, and fell right into a cohabitation long term LTR when I was in what should have poosy heaven for me. But I was able to mature while in this relationship, both socially, physically, and mentally, and grew to surpass the woman in SMV, even though she was approaching her own peak and was most viable in the sexual market.

    Now, yes, I admit, the theme of this post can happen quite frequently. I had seen some stats, probably in 2000, that showed infidelity numbers by ages, show that women 30 years old and older had lower “self responded” rates of infidelity, and women over 40 had far less. But women in their 20s had about the same rates as men, and far higher than older women. I attributed it to the growing demographic imbalances, the power differential of young women to young men, being in the workplace, and the trend to delaying the birth of the first child.

    But in my life, and watching young married couples, I find that it is the man, who gains in SMV while the woman loses in SMV, who is far more tempted to stray. At 27, 28, that woman, normally is now no longer comfortable in the night in the way the man is. She is affronted and threatened by the younger competition that she sees in clubs and bars, and she wishes to change the social activities into those where she is less threatened.

    The man on the other hand, at 28, especially a budding lesser alpha, finds himself most at home. And most in demand, especially if his career is beginning to progress and 28 is often that moment when Men’s careers just get a turbo jolt. Women view stats that show a wage gap beginning at 28 and assume that it is because children come into the picture forcing the women to back away from her career. They never consider that at 28, the man is fully mature, and he shift gears, getting “second gear scratch”, as he barrels into the second phase of adulthood.

    So while we like to say that LTRs can turn an alpha into a beta, it can also turn a young beta into an alpha. You spend years with a steady supply of trim. You have women allay your insecurities, assisting you in your growth, telling you “No, you don’t look goofy. I wouldn’t be with you if you were goofy”, helping you to understand women, assisting you in the development of style, most importantly, giving you preselection, both obvious and in your phermones, and keeping you from experiencing the soul busting experience of rejection building up your self esteem and confidence.

    And then at full maturity, and often well earlier, 25, 26, you see the reality of your new SMV self. I found myself, out alone at night, that started off as a “work” happy hour where I was most popular with the office girls, then flowing into a disco, walking around, and being approached in ways I never experienced before. Women would literally reach out and grab me by the tie and say “I like your tie” or come over and say “My brother/sister/friend said I should come talk to you”, and my personal favorite, in the middle of Texas, of course, where you should expect to encounter tons are Scandanavians, “Are you Swedish?” and the one I heard most often, “Did anyone ever tell you look like X” (X being a singer). (I knew later my SMV was ebbing when X turned out to be an aging NBA coach, much to my chagrin, where I expected to hear the name of the singer).

    And it was same with my friends. You would hear “He won’t grow up”, “He won’t man up”, “He won’t accept his responsibilities”. And the reality was he had new power that she didn’t have any longer, and the power often swept up on him, caught him unaware. And the Feminine Imperative demands he relinquish that power, to accept the role that favors her, and women.

    And this can effect men in all sorts of ways. You will think of other women while you are fucking your LTR. There will always be some other woman that presents a “what if” to you. Some girl with better titties, better ass, better legs, better, sexier clothes, more fun, more in tune with what you like to do, funnier, wittier, nastier, more something.

    And your overall lack of sexual experience with many women will cause you both, to pedestalize women ways that are unrealistic, and cause you so idealize sex, crave sex, fantasize about it, want it, be discontented with your current partner, and actually create almost a sort of insanity in you.

    I personally think you need to fuck about 75 women to reach the right state, but the community says 30. That state where you learn that pussy is no nirvana, that all those bitches with those great titties, sexy clothes, fun personalities all have their own flaw, some disqualifying weirdness, some nasty pussy, disgusting moaning during sex, quirk, insanity, cost, stupidity, so that you can really learn what true value is, what works for you, that yes, sex is important, but some shit is equally important, and despite that you like her great her body, or fucking her, that she has some disqualifying, “fireable” tendencies. And if you think of trading your current LTR, you are just trading one set of problems for another.

    And you should be aware, that just like women, you have a shelf life also. So just as we jump and down, saying that women should grow up at 26, realize their impending wall, stop working their power to fuck sexy alphas in exotic places, and realistically pick a mate, the same goes for you, that you should probably forego the last 20% of your prime SMV to finding one also. And that is lot easier when you have a fuckload of notches so the idea of other women won’t drive you nutty with a fantasy of shit that really isn’t true.

    There is this key rule that you will not believe until you have experienced it.

    “No matter how hot, how gorgeous a woman, some place, somewhere, there is a guy that is sick of her shit.”

    This finally came home to me at the delayed age of 53 when I was in the bus station in Medellin walking behind my girlfriend, because I was so sick of her, I couldn’t even stand to be next to her at that moment. And she was walking 15 feet in front of me with a tight sweater, a 7000 dollar implant job, in Colombia, where the average price is about 3000, perfect ass and legs, sculpted by lipo, in a short mini, with these Victoria’s Secret nasty fuck me sandals. She was causing quite a stir, and all the guys were watching, talking about her to friends, “check her out”. And all I wanted to do was put her ass in a Taxi alone. Actually I wanted to choke her, but my better angels held that in check. I was sick of her bad singing voice destroying every song on the radio because she fancied herself as fucking Shakira, her constantly blabbing on the cell phone in a loud voice to overcome the Colombia cell network, the cost of her, the imposition of her, the her of her.

    So my young companeros, notch count of at least 30, which is why you learn game, so as to defend yourself from the stupidity of OneItis, to give yourself options, and to learn to walk, walk quickly, and walk often, at the first sign of stupidity, incompatibility, bitchiness, and trouble.

    And yes, the theme if this post, Girls Got Options, is more true today than ever before, and the world, the culture, the female herd almost penalizes, condemns girlfriends for being girlfriends, so some youngbloods need to be stickin’ and movin’ so as not to end up on the shit end of this particular stick.

    But if you would begin to think this girl just might be your “one”, let one particular filter become prime in your determination. And this the most important point in this comment.

    Ok, pay attention. About 15% of women are fucking broken sexually and cannot have an orgasm, don’t know how to have one, and another 15% are borderline. So that is 1 in 3, my muchachos, and the chances are the “gurlz” you meet, being out and out, in the scene, are probably gonna more likely be in that broken-ass group because the good ones, the ones that are sexually responsive, mostly likely are taken, some old boy is saying “Shit, Imma keepin thisun”. Then another 1/3 can only have orgasm with clitoral stimulation, tongue lashing. Then there is prime time, girls that get off with a dick in them.

    And more importantly, with YOUR dick in them.

    This tells you quite a few things. First, this woman is genetically inclined to like men, to not be repulsed by them. A lot of horseshit from women is hamsterbation due to the fact that she doesn’t orgasm with men. I read a book review recently where the woman was extolling the wonderful virtue of sleeping alone for 12 years. She had gone on a ski trip alone and discovered how she preferred it to being with her boyfriend (her boyfriend was a beta that repulsed her), and for the next 12 years (nobody she was attracted to would give her the time of day and besides that pussy was broken anyway) she discovered how good clothes felt touching her skin and the importance of the symbolism in erotic art (she masturbated a lot), then one day she encountered someone that she wanted to be in his skin (finally that SMV had decayed to where she accepted the next best offer before it collapsed). So by picking a woman that orgasms with your dick in her or responds quite well to reasonable clitoral stimulation and has multiple fireworks type orgasms , this will pan out far better for you.

    And second, any ole boy, that’s been reading this blog and Heartiste, and paying attention, has learned that there is no substitute for GENUINE DESIRE. You have it or you don’t, and if you don’t, then there is a bad moon rising, trouble on the way.

    And your “trustable” signs of GENUINE DESIRE are 1) WET PUSSY 2) ORGASMS WITH YOUR DICK IN HER. You don’t have both of those, then pack your trash, and …

    Next that bitch.

    There will be another one on the horizon, my Game playing, AIT (alpha-in-training). And that one just might have the pussy galore you should demand and deserve.

    If she is laying there on her back with her forearm covering her eyes while you lap that pussy with your tongue until you get a cramp in your jaw, immediately get up and leave. Your future with this woman does not bode well. And skip a few steps and get to the getting gone part most rickytick.

    So you pick only those women, actually more importantly, you trust only those women, those wet pussied women that orgasm with your dick in them.

    And men, we need to begin to act collectively on behalf of future men to selectively breed dried up, dead pussy bitches out of the species.

    So, 30 notches, and resist an LTR before 30 years. “Don’t Be That Guy”, if you know what I mean.

  26. This article is spot-on: In the past I have been both the deluded husband at home on the couch wondering what wifey-poo and the girls are up to, while 10 years after the divorce I was the guy in the hotel banging another man’s dissatisfied wife who was trying to relive her lost youth. I am sorry to report the game is rigged for failure, gents.

  27. I know a tall, handsome and charismatic guy that married an 18 y/o hotty (9 or 9.5 out of 10). They seemed like a good match in terms of high sexual value. But she had a bit of a wild side and he had to tell her that no, she couldn’t just go to rock concerts with her friends anymore. Time passed, they had several kids. Eventually, she started cheating, with over a dozen men that he knew of and God knows how many he didn’t. But he was so obsessed with her that, even though he was furious each time, he kept taking her back. Finally, he hit rock bottom and he manned up just enough to divorce her but many years and many N’s too late.

  28. Ironically, I’m a 19 yr old reading this, and I’m a long time reader of Rollo’s blog. Everytime I read this blog or any manosphere blog in fact, I’ve become more and more scared of marriage. What I can concluded from months of reading all the manosphere blogs is that your damned if you do, and your damned if you don’t. I’m just lucky that I found the manosphere at such a young age and i’ve been gradually chewing the red-pill. I no longer put up with women’s bullshit and any feminist propaganda! I can’t imagine what women will be like ten years down the line when my friends do choose to walk down the aisle.

  29. No, it is not a joke donalgraeme. I did not mean N when I said “experience.” Not everything is about sex. Experience means knowing how to date, how to say no, how to say yes, appropriate behavior, setting boundaries, appreciating what people (men) do for you. My daughter is a very engaging and loving little sprite and I’ve already given her elementary hypergamy lessons (you can only hold hands with one boy- if you hold hands with one boy you can’t hold hands with any other boy), etc. I want her to be well-informed through her experiences to make good decisions for herself, though, of course, I will be guiding her. She will not be rudderless like I was when it comes to the relation ship.

  30. As my old Guru use to say, ” you can’t eat steak every night, without getting tired of it. Every now and then you have to have a plate of sphagetti. Then the steak tastes fresh again.

  31. I married my ex when she was 22.
    Article is spot on, only thing I can say is that the challenge really is the institution of marriage itself.
    I imagine that if something big, and deep – say the United States of America … if it collapsed, maybe people would still call themselves American for another 1000 years and every half-baked politician would have a plan to reconstitute the republic. That’s kind of how things went down with Rome and the middle ages didn’t it?
    Same to marriage. My visceral sense – which is one I regret and experience sadness over by the way – is that marriage is dead. Just dead. Can’t be brought back. Nothing really to do but move on.
    So – I have much sympathy for the elements of the manosphere that still talk about doing this … the christomanosphere as it were. I have sympathy for it – I think even when I disagree with them, that their hearts are in the right place and that matters and it counts. And it doesn’t surprise me then that they look to finding partners who will marry young or reviving a tradition of younger marriage as a means to end … but it isn’t going to work, heart in right place or not, effort spent, or not.
    And that makes me sad. We don’t have a replacement for marriage. It is leaving a vacuum. Dalrock is at his best when he points out that elites and feminists basically – more than anything else, just made a mistake by jettisoning marriage. They shot themselves in the foot. Killed the family cow when there were none around to replace her. Shouldn’t of killed it … there is no “plan B”.

    That all said … I often think too that much of the marry young or find-them-young attitude is a reflection of something different from what we’re talking about in this article. Reducible to: ladies … when your market value was high … did you accept ANY limitations on your right to exploit your value? And since we know the answer to that … what reason exists now, for me, as a male, to accept any limitations on my right to exploit my value? At end, I suspect that “red pill” amounts to seeing what motivates women sexually, understanding that women do not accept limitations on their agency to act on those motivations as legitimate, understanding that this is a double standard since all of society expects men to act on limitations of their own sexuality, and rejecting the double standard. That, and alpha fux beta bux. That, in a nutshell, is redpill.

  32. …above, near end, meant to write, “all of society expects men to respect limitations of their own sexuality…”

  33. Devil’s advocate to myself …
    Things that MIGHT work to restore marriage:

    1) Abolition of all forms of alimony and child support with the sole exception being where divorcing adults agree, by personal contract, to one or the other … then as with all private contracts it would be enforceable
    2) Male birth control
    3) Replacement of no-fault divorce with fault-based divorce where a party found at fault stands to lose legal custody rights and is limited to inferior visitation rights

    If -3- were not corrupted by misandry (very possible risk) then this would restore balance and result in:

    A) marriage being very rare
    B) marriage being embraced mostly only by those willing to make it work

    Bankrupted companies must declare bankruptcy, sell off or shut down all non-performing units, reduce to the few performing units, restructure and triple down on those units as a company sometimes 1/10th the size of the original.

    Only then is profitability restored. This, by my $0.02, is the only hope for marriage. Sorry for 3 comments in a row … stream of thought here.

  34. All of your writing has put a tremendous amount in perspective for me. But I’ll admit, that as more truths are exposed to me from reading here, the more horrified I become for the future. Because I’m a 30 year old man who has less experience with the opposite sex than many 15 year olds. Besides a girl I met in an online chat room when I was 18 and a girl I met at college when I was 20, I have had almost no intimate contact whatsoever. I’ve never dated. Never put myself out there. I have little post-high school education and a low paying service job. At this point, I’m overwhelmed by the idea that this whole ship has simply sailed on me without me even realizing it was leaving, that I’m so far behind now that nothing can be done. Reading your articles, I don’t feel as if a weight has been lifted, I feel that a tragedy is unfolding.

  35. @Case

    Your comments are so true! I think the best thing for us men to do is… NOTHING. Don’t protest, don’t bitch to their faces, just go on about your day to pump and dump them. Ask yourself these questions

    1. Have women helped men in becoming more attractive?

    2. Have they been honest?

    3. Forgiving?

    The answer to all of these is of course NO! So I say we sit back, let them bitch & cry, and just completely ignore it.

  36. @Mark Minter

    N>=30 is impossible for the vast majority of males (if you’re not counting prostitutes, since they’re being paid to be nice)

    I think the whole point of the manosphere is so that those guys who do get high N distill it for the rest of us lower males. Roosh, for example, was likened to a “sexual crash test dummy”. The rest of us can read and learn from lay reports without having to expend the efforts ourselves.

    I find myself in similar situation as Clint above, except that I’m hardcore STEM guy whose most contact with women were those who looked like horses (but respected for their genuine contributions to the sciences). Doesn’t help that most of us were slobs as well for the most part.

    I don’t really want much in life; I’ll be content in a 90-square foot box apartment with my PC, my PS3, and a made-in-Japan sexbot.

    On the other hand, I currently find myself in a 4100-square foot house with 8 bathrooms and in a very stable IT job (since the CEO keeps the company alive to compete with his rival; we’re only going away once his rival goes away, no matter how much cash injection we require to keep floating in this economy.). It seems like a good idea to put a wife in my house but I don’t want to grant her the power to walk away with it, since it’s my grandfather’s money for the most part. Most of my efforts towards building my inner Game is just to protect what I currently have and have a matching confidence to rival those guys who have all the confidence in the world but nothing much to back it up.


    Suggest to up your daughter’s Girl Game and maximize her hypergamy and let her chase after a prince:


    then you’ll be grinning ear-to-ear like Mrs. Middleton.

    One thing I really liked about the hype behind Kate and William’s baby is that it impresses on today’s girl to see provider betas as very attractive (Prince William is like the highest value beta male there is).

    As is often discussed in the manosphere of girls digging jerks and thugs/criminals, that’s something that irks me to no end, but should society course-correct itself and hold the likes of Prince William as the standard, then I’m hoping this will filter through the female population and make “nice girls -> nice guys” trendy again. “Nice girls -> asshole cads” is hard for me to swallow. But if I lose out to Prince William, it’s all good. Even if he weren’t the prince, he seems like a decent guy.

    Maybe something along the likes of “Prince Charming Game” should be forthcoming (instead of “Ex-convict Game”).

  37. Clint,
    I was driving back home from salsa dancing and thought of your comment so this is just for you.
    I don’t know how you got to 30 and so far behind. That is its own issue and a real one. You need a counselor for that I can’t help you doubtful anyone here can.
    But looking forward you can reverse this and get ahead. Listen carefully and believe me and act. I can’t help with your past but we can work on your future.
    1. Understand that from the point of view of 36 you will not remember a difference between 30 and 32, it amounts to nothing
    2. Understand believe and accept that as a single childless adult you have it in your power to change anything and everything in just two years if you can spend two years working on it and don’t give up
    3. Find some trade that earns a good living and commit to it … do it. Just do it. Fuck bullshit that there isn’t anything and you can’t. Bullshit. Fuck it. And you can. If you have to go to mongolia man, do it. Just fucking do it. Two years.
    4. Learn to dance. I recommend you start with salsa.

  38. @Thrall

    The 30 by 30 when factored across 12 years of adulthood is about 3 a year.

    All I can say is begin at the beginning. Lift heavy weight. Approach 1 girl a day. I have said this before about Roosh. Do not think of him as the exception but rather think him as a model or a goal.

    He was a gawky STEM guy and to put it mildly, now he is not.

    Please believe, and the anecdotes of the manosphere back this up, do those two things, lift heavy weight, and begin to approach 1 girl a day. Who cares if it doesn’t go your way at first. But by doing those two things you will begin to slowly build the level of testosterone for success.

    Every time you suck it up, go through the process of getting fear in you at the idea of going out to approach, seeing someone, not waiting, but closing the gap, and opening her, you will create testosterone. And you will begin to win. Don’t start with supermodels. Start reasonable to your situation. And you win begin to win those situations.

    And you will get the Winner Effect, and your testosterone will build more. And you will begin to win with better ones.

    And after 3 months in a gym, with a reasonable diet, with good mixture of heavy lifting to build muscle, then some cardio to work those muscles to chew calories on the days you don’t lift, you will begin to see the effects.

    I said this in my last comment, your personality is plastic and is controlled by the hormones produced in the endocrine system. And for better or for worse, those hormones lead to social success or failure. You cannot help but undergo a personality change with increased testosterone in your body.

    Rollo’s site is to give you fundamental understanding of the psychology of women and also of yourself. Because you read it, you already are ahead. Go find others that specialize in game tactics.

    I worked in heavy software development and I know what you face. But you have no alternative. If you don’t do it, then you will get your hat handed to you, and maybe your head.

    It’s gonna suck for a while. I recommend Day Bang. And you will learn to understand logistics and situation.

    I recommend you start with a public place, and say hello to every girl you pass. Nothing more then “Hello, how are you”. Yes, you will encounter rolled eyes and surprised looks. But most of the time, you will get a polite response and that is mostly what you will get you when you approach in a day setting. But every time you do it, you get one step closer.

    Don’t just throw your hands up and say 30 is too much.

    Better to say, “I’ll start tomorrow.”

  39. @Dirty

    No need to spend energy thinking or caring about what she thinks or cares. She’s nice, but nice does not equal irreplaceable.

    Hang with her as long as its its enjoyable. See a specialist attorney NOW about not getting into a “deemed to be married by the courts” situation.

  40. @Markminter: I know a lot of guys who lift weight daily and approach like crazy. They don’t have pussy. High T is useless if your social networks are not in place.
    @Thrall: be happy. If u have enough money to pay prostitutes, why bother with game?

  41. LOL Thanks, Thrall. That prince from Luxembourg…maybe! My daughter is only 6.5 years old, but I used to live there. Nice place 🙂

    (NB: to those who don’t know when I’m joking and don’t appreciate it when I am, I AM JOKING 🙂 )

    Both William and Kate appear to be good role models and I agree its nice to see that kind of stuff in the media.

    What I’m not joking about is how helpful its going to be to have Mark around the house. “Mark! Tell Elle about hypergamy, please.” Two hours later I’ll come back and he’ll still be talking 😉 I feel pretty good knowing he’ll help keep her on the right path.

  42. This is why you should always stay on top of your game (keep your money up, work out study game & keep other chics on stand by). This is a new era, marriage is a temporary thing that you do in order to raise kids, if you don’t want kids don’t get married, its that simple – you don’t owe a bitch a ring.

  43. “Third is that the woman loses all appreciation for how good her life is, and cannot recognize any longer the danger of leaving her man.”

    This is what has happened to me. Now, I’m gone after more than 25 years of marriage. She got her papers a couple of weeks ago and I haven’t seen her since. And I’m delightfully happy. I find myself whistling the song from Pinocchio, ‘I got no strings on me’

    Now that I’ve had time & distance to reflect on my relationship with her, I recognized that she’s fought me for dominance our entire marriage. Which explains why I was always frustrated & angry with her. I could never relax & enjoy myself. And as my military & professional careers improved, my confidence and dominance increased, leading to even more problems between us. I guess it’s no wonder I selected jobs where I traveled 70% or more.

    The funny part is that several months ago, I called her out on it specifically. And basically said I wasn’t sure I was going to stick around. Nothing changed. She probably figured I didn’t have the balls to leave.

  44. The funny part is that several months ago, I called her out on it specifically. And basically said I wasn’t sure I was going to stick around. Nothing changed. She probably figured I didn’t have the balls to leave.

    Or, she…
    –> Has no idea how to be submissive.
    –> Doesn’t realize she’s getting in the way of your preferred role.
    –> Is incapable of being submissive due to fears of abandonment.
    –> is just an innate bitch.

  45. “4. Learn to dance. I recommend you start with salsa.”

    Second…my introduction to game even before venturing into these parts was through dance.

    You are a leader and you get to touch women…so that takes care of two issues for guys with little to no experience.

  46. Even though the Kate Middleton story may fuel women’s hypergamous dreams, at least it is showing the example of two seemingly decent people getting married before 30 (at age 29) and having a baby (she’s 31 now). That’s a far better message than the radfems who want women to put career above relationships and children, or the ratchet raunch queens that go for badboys and bad relationships (e.g. Rihanna).

    1. I remember when the royal wedding was announced and reading these threads about how amazing Kate’s ring was (they sell replicas of it) then they wanted to see William’s ring and he wasn’t going to wear one.

      The shrieks of even the most conservative women went up; “He’s not wearing a ring?!! What so he want’s everyone to think he’s single? If he really loved her he’d want to wear a ring! JUST WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS?!!”

      The Prince of fucking England is who he thinks he is.

  47. 1. In non-western country Kim is happy, that Rob’s making money, that he’s not an alchoholic or some junkie and she’s happilly married woman. Fuck the stupid western women!
    2. Sometimes women just can’t understand difference between two situations. In one as described in this post Kim is happily married and she have to keep her pussy shut and bear some time when she again fell in love with her husband (that is periods, sometimes you and your husband are in love and passion, and sometimes you are just friends with benefits and children). In the another woman is married (or lives with) destructive man which is not good for her (and her children). He can be agressive, or passive, or he is as it is sayed in our country suitcase without a handle and she thinks ‘we are already three year together, he is not very good, but not bad enough, so we’ll stay together bored and unhappy because we all nincompoops and none of us can stop it’. Sad true is that women are so stupid that they can not understand which one is happening with they now. They are listening their stupid young friends, they are afraid that best years were spent wih diapers and pots. And if Rob were beating Kim or beeing an A-class moron to her and her children and relatives — in this situation she would ‘save’ this relationship and never let them go.
    3. Yepp, women do live in amusement park and they became hysterical when somebody makes them to get in touch with reality.

    That is so sad to live in western women world.
    Excuse my poor English.

  48. “I wondered if I was even human, that I even existed”

    Those were the words that came out of my (stbx) wife’s mouth. I could care less about the classifications of men on the “alpha” scale – because in both the story and real like – men have many faces and have a tendency to have situational behaviors. Personally, I acted one way with my family, one way with my very close friends, one way working and in my career, and one way within my marriage. BUT, everything in life will search for equilibrium – so the way I acted in my marriage began to take over my life (more or less).

    I bought into the “marriage is for ever” myth – that all I had to do was keep my career going, maximizing the family income, buy all the stuff she wanted, keep “moving up” – and we would be happy. What I forgot about was remaining true to myself – I gave up on my goals, lost sight of my health, and generally started to loose interest in my life, my wife and my family. At the lowest point in my life, I heard her tell me those words.

    I don’t blame her – I don’t even blame myself. But with all things, all I can do is take personal responsibility and “get back” to the man I was – one that was more in tune with him life and his purpose.

    Great article. Awareness is key to life – so be completely aware of your life, of her life, and the realistic outcomes. Use your logic, plan, think then act – you can never ever know for 100% certainty the outcome, but you can be somewhat prepared for a few of them.

    The message I read in the post was to never get complacent, never think you can coast – in your relationship or your life. Be willing to keep pushing yourself, to keep looking for new and unique experiences, to keep yourself centered. If you can do that, then if the ONS, girlfriend, LTR, wife decided to go their own way, you will be in a better position to continue moving in a positive direction.

    Eyes forward, so you can see your life coming at you.

    1. One common question I get from guys who are resistant to Game, or even guys that are red pill but still holding onto to blue pill idealisms is, “When do I get to relax? When is it OK to get comfortable with her?”

      And the answer is “never”. The only way to be comfortable is to internalize Game into who you are. You have to be Game.

  49. “Kim was always the less enthusiastic partner in the marriage…”

    Never marry or seriously date a woman who is less enthusiastic than you.

  50. Makes me wonder if there’s any correlation between women’s tendency to cheat and their ability (or lack thereof) to orgasm from sex…

  51. @ YIM – sounds very close to what I am experiencing. As said to my apprentice this afternoon, I no longer know how to have fun. Have had my nose to the grindstone for 25 years, cuz that is what a man is supposed to do.

    Well not anymore. The modern western woman appreciates a man that can let loose and still do fun/stupid things. The resolute male of the past is just that, past. I have been learning to have fun again these last six months, and our relationship has turned almost 180 degrees. We actually are enjoying each other again. Her passion is her horses, so I have finally joined in. I love camping, now we are doing both of these at the same time. Taking time to go on overnight horse/camping trips with other folks.

    It is amazing, how at 55 I had to learn that life is so much more then be a responsible adult. That having fun is still a pre-requisite for a loving relationship.

    Why did I choose my wife and she choose me in the first place? Because we got along great, and enjoyed each others’ company and humour. Through running a busy-ness, and rearing children, I turned into my father, a very responsible type of guy. not much fun to be around.

    Woman are different now a days. They are not our mothers’. They have experienced so much more, have broader horizons, and expect more from life. Why shouldn’t we men also adapt to this new reality? Our world is so much more expansive and mysterious then even what most of our fathers could experience.

    I have a problem with this idea of hypergamy ruling a womans’ life. I see it more that they have evolved far quicker with the times then most men have. And realize that their potential for living, loving and experiencing is like it has never been before. They are the first generation of female explorers and have no bounds to where or what they can do. So of course they are going to be different and difficult.

    Most men hate change. We do become complacent in our lives. Woman of the past were fine with this, and sauntered along til the end. Now their eyes are open and they see the wide world and want to experience it, so you either accept the new reality and join in their discovery, or ride the pine and moan.

  52. More and more guys are thinking:

    “All well and good, honey. Open your eyes, explore the world. Be different, be difficult. Expect more from life. But not on my time and not on my dime.”

    If you can never allow yourself to be comfortable in a commitment, how is committing preferable to the merely intermittent discomfort of being single?

  53. This is such excellent information. I’m a 25 year old alpha-ish guy in good shape who fought two wars, saved/invested my money wisely, and I am working on my degree and pursuing contracting dollars. I’ve probably banged 20 chicks in the past 10 years about half of which are legitimately “hot” – I have been dating a girl for the past 18 months. While I recognize her value and care about her a great deal I have completely rejected Oneitis and am prepared to leave her. She has an accounting degree, is very intelligent, attractive, practical, has dated a small number of men, and is interested in marrying me. She acknowledges her subordinate status in the relationship and believes that if I have a responsibility to provide for us and our as yet unborn children she has a responsibility to clean, cook, give me sex and obviously remain faithful. The good signs are that she has no male friends, no facebook, no twitter,a good body, a college degree in something not-useless, submits to me, is smart and fun to be around, and very in sync with me politically/economically/religiously. The bad signs are that she is very reluctant to give me either oral or anal, the sex we do have is certainly not the best I’ve ever had, she can be a tad clingy, and I’m approaching my SMV peak while she is beginning the inevitable slide. I’m trying to do a cost-benefit analysis here without rationalizing. Do I stay with her and work on improving her or do I jump ship and enjoy an endless stream of sex with dumb bitches who I have (seemingly) effortlessly gamed? Any older or more experienced PUAs / Alphas who want to offer a suggestion- I’m all ears.

  54. @Cody,

    I’m at the opposite scale of the experiencedPUA Alpha you seek advice from, but why would you leave what seems like “wife material” girl because she doesn’t do oral/anal?

    This is why for hundreds of years men had wives, whom they treat as pure madonnas of their children, and had mistresses, whom they use for extreme sport sex. That’s the dual sexual strategy of men.

    It’s only recently that the madonna-whore divide merged into the same women (“Man up and marry that post-carousel slut!”), but some women still follow the madonna-whore paradigm (the sluts in some countries are realistic in their expectations to not get married / be in an LTR).

    1. Thanks for your response anyways. I don’t claim to be a super stud but I know my relative value and I know that if I want to I can really get out there and rack up the notches and then settle down later when I’m even more established. As a male I have that option. She really doesn’t. As to the oral/anal side of it – If I’m going to have sex with one chick until I’m dead she HAS to at least give me regular and non-reluctant blowjobs. I have (perhaps mistakenly) let this shit slide for too long because she DOES give me regular sex when I want it. She may indeed be good wife material but the real question is settling down now and giving up years of strange and possibly finding another highly qualified woman later OR biting the bullet and embracing the dark side. As to your wife/mistress point I could not possibly agree more. It was the best thing for men and maybe even for women too. If I had her as a faithful and loyal wife along with a dirty slut I’d be pretty goddamned satisfied. Like the mafia guys do in the movies.

  55. Hmmm, the risk is if you hard NEXT her, you’d be potentially off-loading an Alpha Widow into society.

    You can find women who suck and take it up the ass on every street corner, but not a woman who lacks majority of the red flags.

    Anyways, this of course is an opinion from someone with less options, so take it with a grain of salt.

    1. No, it’s fairly consistent with my line of thinking as well. Not to mention I still believe that I can “train” her as I continue improving my hand. Yet no matter how sweet your special snowflake is in 2013- nobody has a crystal ball… guess it’s all about calculated risk.

  56. Even in hajji land where unfaithful wives are killed for their infidelity and women go to jail for inciting their own rape, wives go feral. Any man who thinks he has a fail proof marriage plan needs to think again and realize the reality of women

  57. @ Rollo
    Excellent post, but I think there should be a distinction for shotgun weddings. I really don’t think their relationship failed strictly because of youth, it failed because it was under a coerced pretense to begin with. The whole thing was complicated by their relative immaturity, youth, and imbalanced SMV. And while the girl worked hard to raise her SMV, it doesn’t sound like they guy was doing the same, in fact it sounds like he settled in and got complacent. As Rollo aptly states “The person with the options, is the person with the power”, or something like that. And the girl got herself many options. Can you blame her for jumping ship?

    As to the best age to snatch a girl, the only thing I have seen consistently, is that a lot of girls will have a point in early twenties when they will get tired of the party scene. Not so much as to leave it, but rather will start to wonder if there is anything more to life then lots of meaningless sex/partying. If a girl is still firmly in her “Party/Fun” mindset she will rarely be good material for an LTR, if she is even open to one. Sadly, I see lots and lots of girls partying it up well into their twenties (where I live) only to end up on a dating site, complaining how the Bar/Club scene is not working for them any more and looking for Mr. Perfect, Wealthy, Stud Alpha.

  58. SAM:”Never marry or seriously date a woman who is less enthusiastic than you”


    If a woman doesn’t smile around you much, fuss over you, do things for you, defer to you etc, she isn’t that into you. Chances are you are the ‘safe’ choice or the fallback plan.

    I know guys that are in situations like that with higher SMV women and they think they have a great deal. Little do they know that the relationship is a ticking time bomb and that the woman is holding the detonator.

  59. Kuis, re: “If a woman doesn’t smile around you much, fuss over you, do things for you, defer to you etc, she isn’t that into you. Chances are you are the ‘safe’ choice or the fallback plan.”


  60. Mark Minter:

    Heartiste is reporting that you and commenter “Kate” (the commenter formerly known as “GeishaKate”) are engaged.

    Can you confirm or deny same?

  61. @ deti

    No way it’s true. No way it’s anything but the most epic manosphere trolling campaign of all time.

    No fucking way.

  62. Yes, it true. I took a little bit of an ass whipping over the above 75 notches, wet pussy, and vaginal orgasm comment.

    Sometimes though it is a little bit of a drag when the woman already has the “playbook”

    “Oh, how cute, he’s using Dread”

    But it’s still like playing Alabama, even though the other team knows what they are gonna do, they still can’t stop them.

    And if anyone has any doubt about the concept….

    Dread and Asshole game fucking works like a motherfucker.

    And I intend to keep using it.

    And I say that knowing that certain readers are reading.

    Yeah, I’m gonna have to eat a bunch of fucking crow, but so what. I get a 34 year very attractive woman and you guys haven’t seen the sides of her I have.

    Rollo, the wedding will be in Vegas. I think it most fitting you come.

    Second, despite CH’s claim, the deal happened here. Exactly like the comment I made a while back.

  63. Stop Rolloing around on the floor, silly. You aren’t being trolled. I hope you and your wife can come. It would be very meaningful to us, and FUN! 🙂

    1. I’m still not convinced this isn’t a trolling. CH has all my comments in moderation, which Roissy never does.

      Pics of Mark and Kate together or it isn’t happening.

  64. He moderated all day. It was a special kind of post and he wasn’t going to throw us to the wolves, which was greatly appreciated.

    1. Why do I get the feeling that if I were to attend this “wedding” that Aunt Giggles would be waiting for me there with a private investigator?

      It’s a TRAP!

  65. Said this at CH, happy to repeat here: being in the target demographic (i.e., also 58), I must say: congrats to both. Bang on, folks.
    From one old right cunt to another (and his lovely bride-to-be).

    PS: I am here to serve a deposition subpoena on some guy calling himself – uh, lessee here -Tomassi???

  66. I am the one fucking these pitiful women finding out themselves they are still hot while their hardworking husbands have gone stale and beta.
    Sorry guys: approaching wall, being alfa and horniness in their thirties makes an irrestistibly potent cocktail for your loved ones. You are warned and i dont care. They just flock at me since becoming 40.
    Life’s never been better.

  67. Thank you, Prince and deti 🙂

    Its not a trap, Rollo. “Aunt Giggles” will not be there. Neither will Hayley Mills. But, it is Vegas. There might be a little cheese 🙂

  68. So the moral of the story is:

    Be the biggest un-PC asshole that you can possible be. Consistently espouse a doctrine that declares virtual war on the continuation of the human species and that is completely nihilistic. Proclaim such doctrine in a community that is hated and reviled by mainstream society. Develop some niche fame in that group and end up with a gem/hot reward relative to your respective position in life.

    That sounds about right. Validates every single damn concept mentioned on this blog.

  69. I think the moral of the story is to wear condoms, play the field in the 20’s, have your inner game refined, don’t get oneitis, don’t get married at 19 or 20, don’t have 3 kids before 25, don’t get locked in so early in life without developing your own life.

    At least that’s what I took from it and I thought it was a great piece of writing.

  70. Re: Mark and Kate
    Rollo and others clearly show that yes, marriage can be successful and long term, and this is Mark Fucking Minter we are talking about here. If it works out it is because he developed the knowledge, skills and attitude (i.e., game) to screen and manage properly; if it doesn’t work out then it will be one of the greatest object lessons that the sphere could ever have, because Mark Fucking Minter.

    If true, then best wishes, dude. And I mean that in all sincerity.
    If not true, then I salute you, good sir, on one of the best bits of trolling the sphere has seen in some time.


  71. Good story Rollo, just needed to throw in the intentionally not allowing me any closure whatsoever, and I wouldve thought it my ex wife writing this post. A very important post for the DJs under 30….hell hath no fury like that of……

  72. “I can’t tell you how to be happy. But I can tell you how to be unhappy. Marry a single mom 20 years younger than you that you met on the internet”

  73. Rollo: Mark is doing the planning. He hasn’t even told *me* the date yet. So, I’ll leave that for him to answer. I don’t always know what’s going on up in his head, but it always turns out well 🙂

  74. Still not buying this.

    CH is still moderating the fuck out of that thread a day later, “Minter’s” gravatar icon, link to his FB and his old IP is switched.

  75. Rollo, I am mad at you. Why do you want to dig this stuff up and hurt someone I thought was your friend? This is a time to be happy for him, not a time to dredge up comments his ex-wife wrote. She even commented at heartiste yesterday. The whole thing is beyond weird for both of us. We simply have faith in each other and plan to be married. End of story. Still hope you’ll get over your paranoia and join us.

    1. Hey, I want to believe, you know I do. Mark’s an amazing writer and one of the manosphere’s most valuable assets, and if anyone is full of more shit it’s David Futrelle, but you must know how bizarre all this reads right?

  76. Yes, I know how bizarre this all is. I would think the easiest thing for you to do is to message Mark through Facebook to get this all cleared up. I don’t want to participate in online gossip. I suspect he is sleeping as we last chatted at nine this morning and we’re usually in pretty constant touch when we’re both free and awake.

  77. Yes. And I believe the cardinal rule is that it can be done as long as one person can move to the other, which, in this case, it can. All legal, family, work, money issues have been discussed to both our satisfaction.

  78. Have you even met each other in person? One of his excuses for deciding to marry was that he’s seen some convincing pictures…..WTF? Honestly, that was the only tangible reason, the rest was some shit about red pill woman and sticking up for him in the face of your family.

    Meet on internet, LDR (possibly with no actual contact?), STRAIGHT TO MARRIAGE! Makes perfect sense.

  79. Kate, I live kind of in the same neck of the national woods as Vegas so if the cause was worthwhile I could get out there and for that matter if this is for real then it’s worthwhile so please consider extending an invite. Rollo has my permission to give you my email address. I also actually messaged Mark once on Facebook which wouldn’t be memorable to him other than the fact that I have a highly unusual name with a rich family history that would have stood out, starts with the letter “C”.

  80. Also, I didn’t think this was credible when it was posted, but now I hate to admit I’m a little wary:

    Not 100% confirmed, but … boredom + google-fu find…

    Energy analyst, first name starting with “S”, middle name “Minter”, last name (redacted), who does indeed travel and get paid to speak about the emerging US energy markets

    Age matches.
    Is connected to a Mark Minter, who’s age also matches.

    Assuming it is the correct woman, blond, likely high-T.
    Not a warpig, just an average 50+ career woman. IOW, bleargh.

    Last name shows up as Minter until about a year-ish ago. Current last name is that of a 44yr-old guy to whom Facebook says she is married.

    Marriage record between energy analyst and Mark Minter found in state where energy analyst went to university. Maiden name/initial match.

    Divorce record found in different state – record sealed so unable to view without paying for it. lol no thanks

    Energy analyst and current husband’s names found on property deed/transaction record in same state/county/city as divorce record. Mark Minter also connected to address of same property.

    No confirmation of other info (he-said, she-said stuff) in her post, but Kate above (and in her response to “sminter1” in the Heartiste post comments) seems to implicitly confirm that it is indeed his ex-wife.

    Again, not 100% confirmed that what I found is indeed the correct person, so large grain of salt, but a lot of the particulars do appear to match.

  81. Its her. First name Suzanne, as he’s called her in posting. You can see on her FB she is from LI where MM has said she’s from before.

    The real questions involve him and “Kate”. And he’s conspicuously absent all day.

    Roosh, by the way, has all but villified him at this point. Beyond writing him off to saying he was possibly a plant designed to discredit the ‘sphere and has succeeded in doing major damage.

    Good to see that Rollo maintained skepticism, no idea what Roissy was thinking.

  82. Its her. First name Suzanne, as he’s called her in posting.

    Okay, I intentionally avoided posting the name, but if he did, then yeah, it’s very likely her.

    And again, no confirmation on the he-said/she-said stuff, but I have rarely seen a divorce, and especially not an antagonistic one, where both sides did not talk crap about the other.

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