I’m going to relate a real story of a good friend of mine here as an illustration of a larger dynamic.
My friend Rob was what most guys would call a ‘natural Alpha’ in his younger days; fit, smart in an unlearned kind of way, and to the guys who couldn’t appreciate his straightforwardness, he had the Alpha ‘attitude’ that made him kind of an asshole to the people who didn’t know him. He was in the military for a bit right out of high school and that seemed to work well for him since he learned to be a damn good airframe mechanic and parlayed that into a pretty good career for a while.
Although he was a natural Alpha, Rob’s approach to women was very much conditioned by the influence of the feminine imperative. He had girls who were attracted to him, but he had a tendency for ONEitis so once he’d locked on to Kim that was his focus. He would say “I would do anything and everything for the right girl” because that was his belief, sacrifice and support were his mandates before they’d even met. Eventually she ‘accidentally’ became pregnant when they were both 19.
Rob’s ONEitis took on the predictable sense of masculine purpose to “do the right thing” when she told him the news. They were young, and even 20+ years ago he was aware that couples married young had a very low ‘success’ rate, but as expected he believed he and his soon to be wife would be the exception to that rule. Whether it was his predisposition for ONEitis or his righteous ‘natural’ Alpha stubbornness, at 19 he was determined to be a good father and husband.
Kim was always the less enthusiastic partner in the marriage, but she wasn’t going to have an abortion, and while she was uncertain about Rob’s future potential at 19 she married him. 5 years later they had two daughters and then a son 2 years after that. I would describe their marriage as one of convenience except that Rob genuinely loved Kim and the kids. His Alpha attitude only drove him on that much further as a good provider, but as Kim and he entered their early 30’s and their older children became more self-sufficient it was becoming clear that she was subtly and indifferently distancing herself from Rob.
At about 29 Kim went to work in a middle management position. Up until then she’d been a stay-at-home mom, but with the kids in school (except their youngest) she wanted to get into working. For having 3 children Kim was in exceptionally good shape (too good of shape in hindsight), Rob had put on a few pounds, but still had his upper body muscularity. Kim was at the gym and work more than she was at home now, and it was something that even heroic-ONEitis Rob was beginning to be annoyed with.
Kim had new friendships at work now, mostly single women in their mid to late 20’s while Kim was almost 31. All of her new work girlfriends were single and wanting her to come out with them for drinks after work. They didn’t call them GNOs (girls night out) but this is what they were without calling them such. Dutiful Rob would look after the kids and content himself with beer and movies at home. Even as this became a more common occurrence Rob still clung to the heroic, supportive, father/husband/provider role. Rob still wasn’t what anyone would call a Beta, but in his ONEitis devotion and his increasing domestic role this is what Kim saw in him.
Kim went from living vicariously through her 20’s girlfriends’ weekend stories, to watching them from the sidelines at the clubs, to actively engaging in their escapades. I’m sure most readers know where this is going, and yes Kim eventually cheated on Rob. I had the dubious, but serious, honor of talking him out of murdering both Kim and a co-worker guy she’d hooked up with at 4am after he’d tracked them both to the motel they ended up at that night. He had the kids in the car with him the whole time we were on the phone.
I’m presenting this story, not as some precautionary tale to scare you into not marrying early so much as to better understand the other side of doing so. Anyone who’s read my blog long enough knows I advocate men not even becoming seriously monogamous until after the age of 30. I realize that for most men this is a pretty tall order, and for most guys untenable, but the principle is that men need to realize and actualize their SMV potential before they can accurately assess their true role in the SMP, and then, evaluate the quality of any woman they’d want to become monogamous with according to their Game awareness.
My friend Rob never made that connection and lived (and still lives) by what an adolescent social skill set and his feminized conditioning had taught him. Rob was enraged about the infidelity, but he took Kim back, they went to the ubiquitous marriage counseling, and attempted the typical negotiations of Kim’s genuine desire for Rob. Rob was still playing by a rule set he believed Kim should recognize and should appreciate (i.e. Relational Equity fallacy), but after 3 kids and “missing out on her 20’s”, Kim’s Hypergamy didn’t care.
At this point, Kim’s leaving Rob was just a formality, but the end came when Rob had an on-the-job injury to his back and he could no longer perform his job. He got pretty good disability, but it wasn’t what Kim had built up to making. Blood was in the water, and Kim went feral. Eventually she took the kids and left Rob to his own means, while she moved half a state away to “find herself” and get into the scene she missed in her 20’s.
For the men in the manosphere who want to use Game as a means to locking down an idealized wife, a lot gets made about marrying (or becoming monogamous) with a woman while she’s young – preferably in or just before her peak SMV years (18-24). Generally the idea is that if you can get to her early enough – before she rides the infamous cock carousel – and she’s cut from the right cloth for monogamy, then by way of a guy being the (hopefully) first Alpha she’s encountered, she’ll solidly pair-bond with him – bearing him healthy children in her fertilely prime years and remain his emotionally bonded, loyal and devoted wife for a lifetime.
I like this fantasy, as I’m sure most idealistic men would. In fact it might even be realistic for a guy in his peak SMV years (30-36) to pull this off with the right amount of status and Amused Mastery if his own value is well established. However, as per the story of Rob and Kim here, there is another risk to the ‘marry young’ scenario and that’s what I call the Left Behind dynamic.
In contemporary western society, even the most farm-raised, home schooled of girls are still going to be incessantly bombarded by the ‘be all you can be’ (previously ‘you can have it all’) social advertising the Feminine Imperative has for girls. Raising a daughter in such times (and I speak from experience) is fraught with risks of appearing to be limiting her potential while attempting educate her about the real limitations of women’s fast-burn SMV and the choices she’ll have to make very early in her life that will affect her later life once she’s past those peak years. I should add that for a father to even hint at these limitations publicly makes him instantly guilty of misogyny, patriarchy, male privilege oppression and every other male-crime the Feminine Imperative has a long established name for. However, even mothers will be accused of being domineered by that patriarchal mindset for attempting to educate their daughters about the real limitations of being a woman today and choosing between different life paths.
With this as the foundation, the inherent risk of finding, not to mention wifing-up, the ideal young girl, predisposed to marriage (unplanned pregnancies not withstanding) is that as a she matures, a woman begins to question the choices she made. While it’s almost a cliché now to breakdown the life path that led to the regret of never-married or divorced aging spinsters in the age of career women, the other side of that coin is the early-married woman contemplating ‘her life that could’ve been’ and the motivation to change her path. It’s easy to find fault with women who delayed accepting a marriage proposal for their own SMV convenience or self-interest, but it’s the early-married Kim’s of the world who are far more susceptible to the Eat, Pray, Love script as they approach the downslide of their SMV.
Ironically it’s the same feminine-primary social influence that encourages ‘be all you can be’ (and demeans her for not living up to her girl-power potential) that also embraces her when she re-plots her life course after leaving the husband of her youth. Mix in her single and divorced friends’ encouragement with fem-centric social promptings and top it off with an innate Hypergamy that never stops subconsciously asking “is this guy the best you can do?” after 12 years of marriage and you can see why she’d feel left behind.
As a Game aware, red pill Man it’s imperative that you consider both sides of a woman’s choices and adjust your Game accordingly. Half the reason I made the rough attempt at graphing the SMP and men and women’s SMV’s respective to each gender’s age is so men could predict and expect the behaviors, mindsets and social variables women will be susceptible to at various phases of their lives. It is, however, important, to consider the choices women have made in the lives they led before and after they meet you. It’s becoming increasingly too easy for men to think, “damn, if only I’d have met her when she was younger and inexperienced, she’d be more attached to me now.” This isn’t always the case.
calibration is key…..
I wonder what would happen had this occurred in a non western country.
Great story by the way
WELP. So, damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Seen that with my cousin. He married his high school sweetheart. They had three kids. I guess she did it the legitimate way, got divorced first (as far as anyone knows) before hooking up with a musician.
I find it somewhat amusing that she refuses this day to speak to her own father or let him see his grandkids because he cheated on her mother and broke up the family.
I can’t really see that it makes much difference to the kids in this situation in what order mommy left daddy and hooked up with someone else.
So, a guy who only bangs one girl and marries at 19, then stays in the sofa and drinks beer alone at night is alpha? Right….
The dude is a classic dominant delta.
If he had played his game right, and listened to you, he probably would have been still married, and his wife would have a huge grin on her face! Obviously, he didn’t do any proper research on the beauty of gaming your wife – and stating the law in his house of ‘order’ –
And by the way – he should’ve never had sex outside of marriage in the first place / but since he did / he should’ve never let her get a job outside the house! 😉
I don’t know, seems like the possibility of execution would be an effective way to keep wives in line. Seems harsh, but husbands are subject to physical force by the state to fulfill their wives’ wishes, and if the state doesn’t enforce the other side of the contract, then informal enforcement is only natural. If a guy is not that kind of person, if he can’t do the time, well then he shouldn’t do the crime by getting married.
Two words: Blue Valentine.
An important perspective. As I have said before, the naive inexperienced virgin is just hypergamy waiting to happen. And it is something I think about in raising my daughter: how to guide her down some sort of middle road so she has enough experience but not too much.
It’s the curse of technology combined with hypergamy. The Amish have it right,no phone,no car,no television. It’s bad enough when they take the horse and carriage to town. One needs to keep them down on the farm away from gossipers and would be adulterers. Get them out in fly over country isolated and watch over them like the children they are. Since that is impossible,except that all relations are transitory and that your wife wants variety and will do any aggressive decent looking male that can get a moment with her on the side. Game theory verifies this,so screw you… Read more »
Well when we all live in a sewer…what is the chances of finding a clean fish?
He also did in this relationship with the premarital sex too. It fogged his mind.
“Regular sex with the same person gets boring,game is all about sex with the NEXT man.”
Women are fed the idea constantly that life should be a non-stop amusement park.
But even if you go to an amusement park everyday of your life…you’ll get bored and tired of the roller coasters.
1. No matter the dynamic, it makes no sense to get married today, regardless of sexual history, age, or the feminine imperative. The court structures will tear the husband apart. The reward is not worth the risk. 2. Assuming number 1 were fixed, the statistics still show that carousel riders get divorced more than those who marry their first sexual partner. 3. I think you are only partially accurate in assessing the cause of Kim’s cheating. Her husband was not a contextual alpha. He has to keep that alpha going, into his 30’s and beyond. I know a man and… Read more »
What you are writing about right here is why I’m so scared to get married. It’s like signing your life over to a person walking around with a stick of dynamite. As soon as they want to light the wick, you’re whole life gets blow to pieces.
You read this and all you can say to yourself is “women suck.”
I’m mid 30’s and making north of 150k and have no wife, no kids and little to no liabilities.
This article made me think about a girl I’m currently seeing. Red pill for a year now and I know the statistics so I’m 95% certain I won’t keep her in an LTR due to the carousel she rode (25-30). However, she has many fantastic house wife traits (cooks me elaborate dinners and does the dishes, makes the bed etc…), tells me she loves me everyday, is truly concerned for my welfare and happiness and says she’s never cared to do such things for other men. I’m making her lose weight and she’s constantly worried about if I’m attracted to… Read more »
Astute observations Rollo…..and Danger.
I really cannot fathom this female need to constantly re-evaluate their life and seek to somehow reverse decisions made decades ago. There are, after all, two ways of looking at YOLO. You can look at it fatalistically and infer that because you only live once, you need to simply turn off any filter and consideration of consequences and just experience everything available. Or you can look at it through the eyes of future historians, and recognize that future people smarter than you will eventually be analyzing how you lived your life, so you’d better make the best of what you’re… Read more »
OK, Rollo, I’ll bite: Your article implies that marrying a girl young, then letting her get into corporate america is a mistake. Hell, you could read into your article that just letting your woman work in corporate America is a mistake, and I wouldn’t disagree with the reading or the sentiment. But what about the idea of marrying a younger woman? Set aside for a minute the risk of getting divorce butthexed from marriage in general. Let’s look at the risks of just marrying or LTR’ing younger women, specifically for us late 30’s peak SMV guys. How can we mitigate… Read more »
“I’m mid 30′s and making north of 150k and have no wife, no kids and little to no liabilities” Sounds like a great deal to me Tampa!! When women get older, their rationalisation hamster goes into overdrive. They also tend to lie to themselves and others about their past choices. For example, i’m 34, and this girl i really wanted in my mid 20’s didn’t show much interest in me beyond friendship. Now that i’m more established–not rich, but comfortable–with a house paid off, she tells me that she wishes i asked her out back in the day; how she… Read more »
Men always had to work hard to land a good quality wife, but given all the incentives and messaging to women from their friends and the media, men have to work increasingly hard over time to keep her, despite her declining SMV. The longer they are hitched, the more she can convince herself she is missing out in a big way. A woman who is 40 and married for 12 years likely thinks she’s missed 12 years of The All Male (Executive) Review, and her future is going to be all about all the hot sexytime fun she will miss… Read more »
Read “The 80 Yard Run” by Irwin Shaw. It’s a short story on the web. It’s a beautiful example of how a young guy goes from an alpha to a beta.
It takes place in the 1920’s and 30’s but Shaw hit the nail on the head.
Think > Act > Feel
Feel > Act > Think (i.e., use logic to backwards rationalize)
By the way, being alpha isn’t just for “relationships”. It’s a way of life. Jobs, friends, decisions about every day things. It becomes so natural that it just “is” once you get it down. S##t will still happen that will test you. That doesn’t change. A good friend of mine is often beta. His wife has him on the leash. She doesn’t like me much. She can sense how I feel about his situation. We don’t talk about it. When she’s not around my friend is alpha. When she’s around he goes beta.
I’d replace the world alpha..with dominance or leadership.
The way of life any man should take with any endeavor is dominance and leadership. I’d rather die going that route…than live a life of submission and passivity.
Very astute analysis, and I completely agree. One thing I’ve learned is there are 2 sides to every coin. In a way, being with an attractive girl on the other side of 25 after she’s been through a string of failed relationships and being ‘screwed over’ enough times has it’s BENEFITS. The benefit is by contrast, she’ll appreciate what you provide her. At the same time, she’s experienced enough (a dubious term at best) to not question ‘what if’ because she already KNOWS what’s out there. We tend to think that wifing up a nubile chick fresh out of high… Read more »
This may be absolutely true for this society at this time, but it’s no way to run a culture.
“but the principle is that men need to realize and actualize their SMV potential before they can accurately assess their true role in the SMP, and then, evaluate the quality of any woman they’d want to become monogamous with according to their Game awareness.” This was the hardest aspect for me to come to terms with, but simply put, at least for me it crystallizes what many guys have told me in the past.. that i couldn’t dare comprehend before but see it now for the truth it holds. “Never be with someone you can’t envision walking away from.” I… Read more »
I’m with Revo, her going to work did not cause the hypergamy overdrive problem, the problem was there all along and would have come out some other way even if she didn’t go back to work. But this story does give pause to the more religiously-oriented insistence on marrying an “uncorrupted” virgin whie still young – obviously no guarantee of anything if you do not keep the Game going after putting a ring on it.
Speaking of hypergamy, a recent study shows what we all know, that hotter men are having more sex partners than less-hot men. Interestingly enough, the female N slightly declines with increasing attractiveness. What does this mean? Well, for one it means that the lesser women are getting some of their N from the hotter guys. Plus there was the interesting delusion of many of the women that they they thought they were in an exclusive relationship while the men thought it was sex only. Not surprisingly, the hottest men were the most likely to consider themselves in sex-only relationships and… Read more »
Captain, this is one of the five best essays you’ve ever written.
@ Kate An important perspective. As I have said before, the naive inexperienced virgin is just hypergamy waiting to happen. And it is something I think about in raising my daughter: how to guide her down some sort of middle road so she has enough experience but not too much. I do hope this is a joke. If you honestly think that your daughter having a higher N is going to actually help her, then you must be willfully blind. This phenomena which Rollo relates can happen to any woman, regardless of her N. It can happen for a number… Read more »
Don’t get married. Don’t get married. Don’t get married.
Don’t pull the pin on that grenade and it won’t blow up in your face.
To me, the key here, first, is NEVER consider marriage until you have an N count higher than 30. If an “accidental” pregnancy happens to you, you need to be aware that there are physiological tricks being played on you that are just as serious and villainous as “love” is. You must learn to play hardball. Understand that this phenomenon is biologically and psychologically entrenched in you and even psychiatrists recognize it as “Baby Shock” or “Baby Trap”. You undergo a sustained “fight or flight” response. And often it shocks a man into taking actions, under the fog of chemicals,… Read more »
This article is spot-on: In the past I have been both the deluded husband at home on the couch wondering what wifey-poo and the girls are up to, while 10 years after the divorce I was the guy in the hotel banging another man’s dissatisfied wife who was trying to relive her lost youth. I am sorry to report the game is rigged for failure, gents.
I know a tall, handsome and charismatic guy that married an 18 y/o hotty (9 or 9.5 out of 10). They seemed like a good match in terms of high sexual value. But she had a bit of a wild side and he had to tell her that no, she couldn’t just go to rock concerts with her friends anymore. Time passed, they had several kids. Eventually, she started cheating, with over a dozen men that he knew of and God knows how many he didn’t. But he was so obsessed with her that, even though he was furious each… Read more »
Ironically, I’m a 19 yr old reading this, and I’m a long time reader of Rollo’s blog. Everytime I read this blog or any manosphere blog in fact, I’ve become more and more scared of marriage. What I can concluded from months of reading all the manosphere blogs is that your damned if you do, and your damned if you don’t. I’m just lucky that I found the manosphere at such a young age and i’ve been gradually chewing the red-pill. I no longer put up with women’s bullshit and any feminist propaganda! I can’t imagine what women will be… Read more »
No, it is not a joke donalgraeme. I did not mean N when I said “experience.” Not everything is about sex. Experience means knowing how to date, how to say no, how to say yes, appropriate behavior, setting boundaries, appreciating what people (men) do for you. My daughter is a very engaging and loving little sprite and I’ve already given her elementary hypergamy lessons (you can only hold hands with one boy- if you hold hands with one boy you can’t hold hands with any other boy), etc. I want her to be well-informed through her experiences to make good… Read more »
As my old Guru use to say, ” you can’t eat steak every night, without getting tired of it. Every now and then you have to have a plate of sphagetti. Then the steak tastes fresh again.
I married my ex when she was 22. Article is spot on, only thing I can say is that the challenge really is the institution of marriage itself. I imagine that if something big, and deep – say the United States of America … if it collapsed, maybe people would still call themselves American for another 1000 years and every half-baked politician would have a plan to reconstitute the republic. That’s kind of how things went down with Rome and the middle ages didn’t it? Same to marriage. My visceral sense – which is one I regret and experience sadness… Read more »
…above, near end, meant to write, “all of society expects men to respect limitations of their own sexuality…”
Devil’s advocate to myself … Things that MIGHT work to restore marriage: 1) Abolition of all forms of alimony and child support with the sole exception being where divorcing adults agree, by personal contract, to one or the other … then as with all private contracts it would be enforceable 2) Male birth control 3) Replacement of no-fault divorce with fault-based divorce where a party found at fault stands to lose legal custody rights and is limited to inferior visitation rights If -3- were not corrupted by misandry (very possible risk) then this would restore balance and result in: A)… Read more »
All of your writing has put a tremendous amount in perspective for me. But I’ll admit, that as more truths are exposed to me from reading here, the more horrified I become for the future. Because I’m a 30 year old man who has less experience with the opposite sex than many 15 year olds. Besides a girl I met in an online chat room when I was 18 and a girl I met at college when I was 20, I have had almost no intimate contact whatsoever. I’ve never dated. Never put myself out there. I have little post-high… Read more »
Your comments are so true! I think the best thing for us men to do is… NOTHING. Don’t protest, don’t bitch to their faces, just go on about your day to pump and dump them. Ask yourself these questions
1. Have women helped men in becoming more attractive?
2. Have they been honest?
The answer to all of these is of course NO! So I say we sit back, let them bitch & cry, and just completely ignore it.
@Mark Minter N>=30 is impossible for the vast majority of males (if you’re not counting prostitutes, since they’re being paid to be nice) I think the whole point of the manosphere is so that those guys who do get high N distill it for the rest of us lower males. Roosh, for example, was likened to a “sexual crash test dummy”. The rest of us can read and learn from lay reports without having to expend the efforts ourselves. I find myself in similar situation as Clint above, except that I’m hardcore STEM guy whose most contact with women were… Read more »
Clint, I was driving back home from salsa dancing and thought of your comment so this is just for you. I don’t know how you got to 30 and so far behind. That is its own issue and a real one. You need a counselor for that I can’t help you doubtful anyone here can. But looking forward you can reverse this and get ahead. Listen carefully and believe me and act. I can’t help with your past but we can work on your future. 1. Understand that from the point of view of 36 you will not remember a… Read more »
@Thrall The 30 by 30 when factored across 12 years of adulthood is about 3 a year. All I can say is begin at the beginning. Lift heavy weight. Approach 1 girl a day. I have said this before about Roosh. Do not think of him as the exception but rather think him as a model or a goal. He was a gawky STEM guy and to put it mildly, now he is not. Please believe, and the anecdotes of the manosphere back this up, do those two things, lift heavy weight, and begin to approach 1 girl a day.… Read more »
No need to spend energy thinking or caring about what she thinks or cares. She’s nice, but nice does not equal irreplaceable.
Hang with her as long as its its enjoyable. See a specialist attorney NOW about not getting into a “deemed to be married by the courts” situation.
@Markminter: I know a lot of guys who lift weight daily and approach like crazy. They don’t have pussy. High T is useless if your social networks are not in place.
@Thrall: be happy. If u have enough money to pay prostitutes, why bother with game?
LOL Thanks, Thrall. That prince from Luxembourg…maybe! My daughter is only 6.5 years old, but I used to live there. Nice place 🙂 (NB: to those who don’t know when I’m joking and don’t appreciate it when I am, I AM JOKING 🙂 ) Both William and Kate appear to be good role models and I agree its nice to see that kind of stuff in the media. What I’m not joking about is how helpful its going to be to have Mark around the house. “Mark! Tell Elle about hypergamy, please.” Two hours later I’ll come back and he’ll… Read more »
This is why you should always stay on top of your game (keep your money up, work out study game & keep other chics on stand by). This is a new era, marriage is a temporary thing that you do in order to raise kids, if you don’t want kids don’t get married, its that simple – you don’t owe a bitch a ring.
“Third is that the woman loses all appreciation for how good her life is, and cannot recognize any longer the danger of leaving her man.” This is what has happened to me. Now, I’m gone after more than 25 years of marriage. She got her papers a couple of weeks ago and I haven’t seen her since. And I’m delightfully happy. I find myself whistling the song from Pinocchio, ‘I got no strings on me’ Now that I’ve had time & distance to reflect on my relationship with her, I recognized that she’s fought me for dominance our entire marriage.… Read more »
–> Has no idea how to be submissive.
–> Doesn’t realize she’s getting in the way of your preferred role.
–> Is incapable of being submissive due to fears of abandonment.
–> is just an innate bitch.
“4. Learn to dance. I recommend you start with salsa.”
Second…my introduction to game even before venturing into these parts was through dance.
You are a leader and you get to touch women…so that takes care of two issues for guys with little to no experience.
Rob was a beta, not an alpha. You are your mating strategy.
Even though the Kate Middleton story may fuel women’s hypergamous dreams, at least it is showing the example of two seemingly decent people getting married before 30 (at age 29) and having a baby (she’s 31 now). That’s a far better message than the radfems who want women to put career above relationships and children, or the ratchet raunch queens that go for badboys and bad relationships (e.g. Rihanna).
I remember when the royal wedding was announced and reading these threads about how amazing Kate’s ring was (they sell replicas of it) then they wanted to see William’s ring and he wasn’t going to wear one.
The shrieks of even the most conservative women went up; “He’s not wearing a ring?!! What so he want’s everyone to think he’s single? If he really loved her he’d want to wear a ring! JUST WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS?!!”
The Prince of fucking England is who he thinks he is.
1. In non-western country Kim is happy, that Rob’s making money, that he’s not an alchoholic or some junkie and she’s happilly married woman. Fuck the stupid western women! 2. Sometimes women just can’t understand difference between two situations. In one as described in this post Kim is happily married and she have to keep her pussy shut and bear some time when she again fell in love with her husband (that is periods, sometimes you and your husband are in love and passion, and sometimes you are just friends with benefits and children). In the another woman is married… Read more »
“I wondered if I was even human, that I even existed” Those were the words that came out of my (stbx) wife’s mouth. I could care less about the classifications of men on the “alpha” scale – because in both the story and real like – men have many faces and have a tendency to have situational behaviors. Personally, I acted one way with my family, one way with my very close friends, one way working and in my career, and one way within my marriage. BUT, everything in life will search for equilibrium – so the way I acted… Read more »
One common question I get from guys who are resistant to Game, or even guys that are red pill but still holding onto to blue pill idealisms is, “When do I get to relax? When is it OK to get comfortable with her?”
And the answer is “never”. The only way to be comfortable is to internalize Game into who you are. You have to be Game.
“Kim was always the less enthusiastic partner in the marriage…”
Never marry or seriously date a woman who is less enthusiastic than you.
Makes me wonder if there’s any correlation between women’s tendency to cheat and their ability (or lack thereof) to orgasm from sex…
@ YIM – sounds very close to what I am experiencing. As said to my apprentice this afternoon, I no longer know how to have fun. Have had my nose to the grindstone for 25 years, cuz that is what a man is supposed to do. Well not anymore. The modern western woman appreciates a man that can let loose and still do fun/stupid things. The resolute male of the past is just that, past. I have been learning to have fun again these last six months, and our relationship has turned almost 180 degrees. We actually are enjoying each… Read more »
More and more guys are thinking:
“All well and good, honey. Open your eyes, explore the world. Be different, be difficult. Expect more from life. But not on my time and not on my dime.”
If you can never allow yourself to be comfortable in a commitment, how is committing preferable to the merely intermittent discomfort of being single?
This is such excellent information. I’m a 25 year old alpha-ish guy in good shape who fought two wars, saved/invested my money wisely, and I am working on my degree and pursuing contracting dollars. I’ve probably banged 20 chicks in the past 10 years about half of which are legitimately “hot” – I have been dating a girl for the past 18 months. While I recognize her value and care about her a great deal I have completely rejected Oneitis and am prepared to leave her. She has an accounting degree, is very intelligent, attractive, practical, has dated a small… Read more »
@Cody, I’m at the opposite scale of the experiencedPUA Alpha you seek advice from, but why would you leave what seems like “wife material” girl because she doesn’t do oral/anal? This is why for hundreds of years men had wives, whom they treat as pure madonnas of their children, and had mistresses, whom they use for extreme sport sex. That’s the dual sexual strategy of men. It’s only recently that the madonna-whore divide merged into the same women (“Man up and marry that post-carousel slut!”), but some women still follow the madonna-whore paradigm (the sluts in some countries are realistic… Read more »
Thanks for your response anyways. I don’t claim to be a super stud but I know my relative value and I know that if I want to I can really get out there and rack up the notches and then settle down later when I’m even more established. As a male I have that option. She really doesn’t. As to the oral/anal side of it – If I’m going to have sex with one chick until I’m dead she HAS to at least give me regular and non-reluctant blowjobs. I have (perhaps mistakenly) let this shit slide for too long… Read more »
Hmmm, the risk is if you hard NEXT her, you’d be potentially off-loading an Alpha Widow into society.
You can find women who suck and take it up the ass on every street corner, but not a woman who lacks majority of the red flags.
Anyways, this of course is an opinion from someone with less options, so take it with a grain of salt.
No, it’s fairly consistent with my line of thinking as well. Not to mention I still believe that I can “train” her as I continue improving my hand. Yet no matter how sweet your special snowflake is in 2013- nobody has a crystal ball… guess it’s all about calculated risk.
Even in hajji land where unfaithful wives are killed for their infidelity and women go to jail for inciting their own rape, wives go feral. Any man who thinks he has a fail proof marriage plan needs to think again and realize the reality of women
@ Rollo Excellent post, but I think there should be a distinction for shotgun weddings. I really don’t think their relationship failed strictly because of youth, it failed because it was under a coerced pretense to begin with. The whole thing was complicated by their relative immaturity, youth, and imbalanced SMV. And while the girl worked hard to raise her SMV, it doesn’t sound like they guy was doing the same, in fact it sounds like he settled in and got complacent. As Rollo aptly states “The person with the options, is the person with the power”, or something like… Read more »
SAM:”Never marry or seriously date a woman who is less enthusiastic than you”
If a woman doesn’t smile around you much, fuss over you, do things for you, defer to you etc, she isn’t that into you. Chances are you are the ‘safe’ choice or the fallback plan.
I know guys that are in situations like that with higher SMV women and they think they have a great deal. Little do they know that the relationship is a ticking time bomb and that the woman is holding the detonator.
Kuis, re: “If a woman doesn’t smile around you much, fuss over you, do things for you, defer to you etc, she isn’t that into you. Chances are you are the ‘safe’ choice or the fallback plan.”
Heartiste is reporting that you and commenter “Kate” (the commenter formerly known as “GeishaKate”) are engaged.
Can you confirm or deny same?
No way it’s true. No way it’s anything but the most epic manosphere trolling campaign of all time.
No fucking way.
Yes, it true. I took a little bit of an ass whipping over the above 75 notches, wet pussy, and vaginal orgasm comment. Sometimes though it is a little bit of a drag when the woman already has the “playbook” “Oh, how cute, he’s using Dread” But it’s still like playing Alabama, even though the other team knows what they are gonna do, they still can’t stop them. And if anyone has any doubt about the concept…. Dread and Asshole game fucking works like a motherfucker. And I intend to keep using it. And I say that knowing that certain… Read more »
Please tell me I’m being trolled,..
Stop Rolloing around on the floor, silly. You aren’t being trolled. I hope you and your wife can come. It would be very meaningful to us, and FUN! 🙂
What’s your take on this, Rollo? Do these two match each other’s SMV?
I’m still not convinced this isn’t a trolling. CH has all my comments in moderation, which Roissy never does.
Pics of Mark and Kate together or it isn’t happening.
He moderated all day. It was a special kind of post and he wasn’t going to throw us to the wolves, which was greatly appreciated.
Why do I get the feeling that if I were to attend this “wedding” that Aunt Giggles would be waiting for me there with a private investigator?
It’s a TRAP!
Said this at CH, happy to repeat here: being in the target demographic (i.e., also 58), I must say: congrats to both. Bang on, folks.
From one old right cunt to another (and his lovely bride-to-be).
PS: I am here to serve a deposition subpoena on some guy calling himself – uh, lessee here -Tomassi???
I am the one fucking these pitiful women finding out themselves they are still hot while their hardworking husbands have gone stale and beta.
Sorry guys: approaching wall, being alfa and horniness in their thirties makes an irrestistibly potent cocktail for your loved ones. You are warned and i dont care. They just flock at me since becoming 40.
Life’s never been better.
Congrats, Mark and Kate.
Thank you, Prince and deti 🙂
Its not a trap, Rollo. “Aunt Giggles” will not be there. Neither will Hayley Mills. But, it is Vegas. There might be a little cheese 🙂
Again, pictures or I call bullshit.
When’s the date?
So the moral of the story is:
Be the biggest un-PC asshole that you can possible be. Consistently espouse a doctrine that declares virtual war on the continuation of the human species and that is completely nihilistic. Proclaim such doctrine in a community that is hated and reviled by mainstream society. Develop some niche fame in that group and end up with a gem/hot reward relative to your respective position in life.
That sounds about right. Validates every single damn concept mentioned on this blog.
I think the moral of the story is to wear condoms, play the field in the 20’s, have your inner game refined, don’t get oneitis, don’t get married at 19 or 20, don’t have 3 kids before 25, don’t get locked in so early in life without developing your own life.
At least that’s what I took from it and I thought it was a great piece of writing.
Re: Mark and Kate Rollo and others clearly show that yes, marriage can be successful and long term, and this is Mark Fucking Minter we are talking about here. If it works out it is because he developed the knowledge, skills and attitude (i.e., game) to screen and manage properly; if it doesn’t work out then it will be one of the greatest object lessons that the sphere could ever have, because Mark Fucking Minter. @Mark: If true, then best wishes, dude. And I mean that in all sincerity. If not true, then I salute you, good sir, on one… Read more »
Good story Rollo, just needed to throw in the intentionally not allowing me any closure whatsoever, and I wouldve thought it my ex wife writing this post. A very important post for the DJs under 30….hell hath no fury like that of……
“I can’t tell you how to be happy. But I can tell you how to be unhappy. Marry a single mom 20 years younger than you that you met on the internet”
Rollo: Mark is doing the planning. He hasn’t even told *me* the date yet. So, I’ll leave that for him to answer. I don’t always know what’s going on up in his head, but it always turns out well 🙂
Still not buying this.
CH is still moderating the fuck out of that thread a day later, “Minter’s” gravatar icon, link to his FB and his old IP is switched.
Maybe Minter/Kate are really the same person.
Also, I didn’t think this was credible when it was posted, but now I hate to admit I’m a little wary:
What’s the S stand for? I want to google these pics of her….
This is a repost from Manboobz, so I can’t be entirely sure: http://manboobz.com/2013/04/23/mark-minter-takes-on-marriage-mangina-manservants-and-americas-matriarchal-infrastructure/comment-page-14/#comment-303134
Still, pics or it didn’t happen.
Rollo, I am mad at you. Why do you want to dig this stuff up and hurt someone I thought was your friend? This is a time to be happy for him, not a time to dredge up comments his ex-wife wrote. She even commented at heartiste yesterday. The whole thing is beyond weird for both of us. We simply have faith in each other and plan to be married. End of story. Still hope you’ll get over your paranoia and join us.
Hey, I want to believe, you know I do. Mark’s an amazing writer and one of the manosphere’s most valuable assets, and if anyone is full of more shit it’s David Futrelle, but you must know how bizarre all this reads right?
Yes, I know how bizarre this all is. I would think the easiest thing for you to do is to message Mark through Facebook to get this all cleared up. I don’t want to participate in online gossip. I suspect he is sleeping as we last chatted at nine this morning and we’re usually in pretty constant touch when we’re both free and awake.
So am I to believe you’re in a long distance relationship with Mark Minter?
Yes. And I believe the cardinal rule is that it can be done as long as one person can move to the other, which, in this case, it can. All legal, family, work, money issues have been discussed to both our satisfaction.
Minter’s voice has no weight. Be gone!
Have you even met each other in person? One of his excuses for deciding to marry was that he’s seen some convincing pictures…..WTF? Honestly, that was the only tangible reason, the rest was some shit about red pill woman and sticking up for him in the face of your family.
Meet on internet, LDR (possibly with no actual contact?), STRAIGHT TO MARRIAGE! Makes perfect sense.
Kate, I live kind of in the same neck of the national woods as Vegas so if the cause was worthwhile I could get out there and for that matter if this is for real then it’s worthwhile so please consider extending an invite. Rollo has my permission to give you my email address. I also actually messaged Mark once on Facebook which wouldn’t be memorable to him other than the fact that I have a highly unusual name with a rich family history that would have stood out, starts with the letter “C”.
Also, I didn’t think this was credible when it was posted, but now I hate to admit I’m a little wary: http://therationalmale.com/2012/11/07/system-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-20076 Not 100% confirmed, but … boredom + google-fu find… Energy analyst, first name starting with “S”, middle name “Minter”, last name (redacted), who does indeed travel and get paid to speak about the emerging US energy markets Age matches. Is connected to a Mark Minter, who’s age also matches. Assuming it is the correct woman, blond, likely high-T. Not a warpig, just an average 50+ career woman. IOW, bleargh. Last name shows up as Minter until about a… Read more »
Its her. First name Suzanne, as he’s called her in posting. You can see on her FB she is from LI where MM has said she’s from before.
The real questions involve him and “Kate”. And he’s conspicuously absent all day.
Roosh, by the way, has all but villified him at this point. Beyond writing him off to saying he was possibly a plant designed to discredit the ‘sphere and has succeeded in doing major damage.
Good to see that Rollo maintained skepticism, no idea what Roissy was thinking.
Its her. First name Suzanne, as he’s called her in posting.
Okay, I intentionally avoided posting the name, but if he did, then yeah, it’s very likely her.
And again, no confirmation on the he-said/she-said stuff, but I have rarely seen a divorce, and especially not an antagonistic one, where both sides did not talk crap about the other.
“There’s three sides to every divorce. His side, her side, and the truth.”