It’s Their Game

george-3

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/why-do-girls-date/5154ae1878c90a511200016b

As glad as I am to see George from 3rd Millenium Man grab the manopshere colors and go to the front lines, I’ll admit I’m a little disappointed with this. Roosh has predicted 2013 will be the year the manosphere goes mainstream, but my concern is less about the exposure and more about the representation. The MSM is the feminine imperative.

I understand the host here is contracted to the Huff-Po so the context begins in terms of what entertains women’s need for indignation. No indignation, no audience. George is hamstrung from the outset: we have the ubiquitous 50+, “I’m ok with the beta provider I married after fucking my spell of bad boys and learned my lesson so you gals should learn from my mistakes” woman (aka the Aunt Giggles, Kay Hymowitz archetype). Next we have the prerequisite “clinical psychologist” who looks like one of the mothers on Dance Moms, and rattles off the feel good humanist psychology truisms clichéd in the 1990’s. After that we have Nathan the self-identified White Knight who’s only purpose is to bolster both women’s feeble positions to better identify with any woman in the hopes that she might be watching and, God willing, anonymously seek him out to potentially hook up with him for being such a team player.

That’s a tough cast to work with so I will commend George on his effort, however, his dropping the ball here is less about his grasp of red-pill wisdom (I know and read his blog regularly), and more about the context that the MSM will allow the manosphere to be represented in. Learn this now red-pill literati before you venture into the MSM – the feminine imperative will gladly make you the red meat for the indignation that sells their advertising to women.

As I said, Roosh predicts that the manosphere will surface in the MSM this year, and I will concur, the manosphere will come to the attention of the greater whole of western society, but don’t think for minute it will be for the positive. With any luck it will reach out to a few blue pill men ready to realize the truth, but my trepidation is about the overall image the manosphere will be molded to by the Feminine Imperative. Men are simply not allowed to have any legitimate insight into intergender dynamics – as I’m sure George is realizing now. In girl-world, women are the sole arbiters of relationship wisdoms – men are simply foils for their legitimacy, even in the best of pretenses.

I don’t write too much specifically about the manosphere with good reason – the ‘enlightenment’ is still evolving. As I’ve been quoted many times before, unplugging guys from the Matrix is dirty work. It’s triage, and the greater majority of men aren’t ready or even in a mental position to be unplugged when you’re in a personal, one-on-one context. So when you extrapolate that to a larger context it’s easy to see how the feminine imperative will readily use men’s default lack of legitimacy for its own purpose. The greatest Threat to the Feminine Imperative is men becoming self-aware of their own sexual market value and the dissemination of information about how the imperative uses this lack of awareness to perpetuate itself.

The first recourse to prevent this is male-specific ridicule and derision for even attempting to explain the social constructs of the feminine imperative.

In a large public forum like this Huff-Po video we don’t see the underlying feminine social urgency and anxiety about men becoming aware of the mechanisms of the feminine imperative because for decades women’s unknowability has become synonymous with the feminine mystique. So it’s made laughable by default that any man would have a legitimate understanding of women – they are just unknowable, so men’s perspectives and insight about the psychology of women starts from a position of ridicule, even when it patronizingly agrees with women’s perspectives.

But underneath the Dance Mom psychological snark, underneath the accusatory tones 50+ woman uses to burn interview time, underneath the attempts at hopeful beta white knight feminine identification, even in the overall context the host uses to broach the topic, red pill men can see the nervous tension of the possibility of the rational exposure of the underpinnings of the feminine imperative.

When you’re in an isolated social setting, it’s a dangerous topic to venture into – like religion or politics – but you can make an effort without too much social repercussion. You can speak red pill truth and endure the wrath of women (who’ll likely fuck you after the fact) and white knights, but you’ll make a point. You may even open the eyes of a few men. However, the larger, meta-scale feminine narrative will use and distort your red pill awareness to make advertisers rich.

Women sustain themselves on indignation and nothing stimulates that better than a man who publicly declares he knows how women think. The Atlantic has made a very profitable business model for a dying form of media based solely upon this feminine-satisfying indignation. This host, the Huff-Po, are simply following the model. So yes, Roosh is right, the manosphere will go mainstream this year, to the overwhelming adulation of the media that’s discovered this type of feminine imperative indignation is extremely profitable.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
9 years ago

We should listen to Sex Panther, 60 percent of the time he’s right every time.

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago

@3MM, just to clarify things a bit more with you, I really don’t think you’re reading me the right way in my comments. As I said, I think what you did was commendable and I expressed that. I wasn’t trying to bust your chops for putting yourself out there, the only point I was trying to make is that when you, or anyone else, enter into the narrative of the feminine you’re going to be distorted by it, so be prepared. I’m sorry if you think my pointing this out makes you look ill prepared – I think you did… Read more »

Transmillenium
9 years ago

“I blog anonymously, that’s why you called me to come here, then you ridicule me for blogging anonimously. One cannot imagine what could happen to my life if I showed you my ID.” “There are guys in the Manosphere, like Roosh V who has appeared numerous times in the media showing the skills that make him a book writer of his experiences with women abroad, books that have brought to him criticism by the MSM in various feminist countries like Iceland and Denmark while at the same time, winning the respect, appreciation and admiration of men who, like me, have… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Transmillenium

On the contrary, my hunch, and I’ve written about this many times, as to why Manosphere bloggers are anonymous is because they aren’t good-looking. Now I’m not judging what’s good looking from not (women judge that), but I believe that is the reason why Manosphere guys are anonymous; they’re overweight guys with massive beer guts, and to reveal that image would kill the whole myth of them being Alphas who pump iron everyday and are ripped like a prime Arnold.

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[…] This is a comment I posted over at It’s Their Game […]

Kate
Kate
9 years ago

Oh good grief. That sex offender thing about Mark is ridiculous. A guy I went out with this winter shared the same first and last name with a sex offender and as its a pretty unique name, I’m sure he gets a lot of flack over it. And it has nothing to do with him. Sure, he’s a dawg, but there’s a line between being good with women and immoral with children.

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

@Socialkenny
Well, of course, I’m good looking, maybe I should start blogging about red-pill stuff so that there’s a public face.

/I like my professional career too much, aint gonna happen.
//I could lose a few pounds.

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

@Jeremy- Dude, it has nothing to do with professional career. That is just a hogwash Manosphere excuse. Ok let’s put it this way, every guy in the Manosphere uses a pseudonym (so do I although I’m not Manosphere). Now, with that said, who the fuck in your professional career will be able to track you under your blogging alias? No one!!! So what is the chances of your employer stumbling across your blog and seeing your real name and real photos? Next to zero chances! So quit the excuses. Ferdinand Bardamu whom I’d destroyed which caused him to close down… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

Returning to the topic… I don’t think any acknowledged PUAs should allow themselves to become the face of the manosphere in the MSM. This is just MHO. Of course I leave PUA’s to their freedom to do what they will with what they’ve got, I would never fault them for it, I do not look down on them for what they do. And honestly, it would be wonderful to be 20 again and know what I know now. However, we should all be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that PUA behavior is exactly the kind of incendiary bomb the MSM… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

@Socialkenny Now, with that said, who the fuck in your professional career will be able to track you under your blogging alias? Let me tell you a story. About 5 months ago, I moved into a marina in Southern California. That’s right, I live aboard a sailboat. The sailboat is not mine, it belongs to a friend who is slowly retiring to Hawaii (but yes, I do know how to sail). He has a house over there already but obviously crossing the pacific, even on a well-equipped sailboat (which his is) is not a trivial matter that you do on… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Lol dude, as I’d said in a previous comment, my pseudonym wasn’t and isn’t used for the sake of anonymity. I’m a PUA coach. As all Pick-Up Artists do, we adopt a cool name to match our persona as for seduction. Our names aren’t to be anonymous but to create a sense of “Cool”, which cannot be done with common names such as John Bob, Tim, Powell, Steve, Rick, James, etc. Nothing cool and attractive in those names. As you should know, seduction is an alternate reality for guys, so we adopt an alternate name to go along with it.… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago

Re: Anonymity. A guy like Athol Kay was public from the outset and now that MMSL is his full time gig it doesn’t matter who knows his identity. Same with Roosh, and while both of them aren’t going to be gracing the cover of GQ anytime soon, their situations make anonymity a non-issue (even a hindrance) for them. Next take Roissy who after almost a decade of blogging no one knows what he looks like. He got doxxed by an irate and obsessed Lady Rain around 2009 and had to literally reinvent his identity and blog to recover from it.… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

@Socialkenny

It’s not about anonymity.

I understand and appreciate what you mean there. However, if you’re going to defend the truth that you and I both know about the SMP to the public on the MSM you will likely want to leave that cool PUA persona behind to protect you from the extremists who will want to track you down and do bad things to you and your family. This isn’t about why you use anonymity, it’s about protecting you and the movement you represent.

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

I just feel that the Manosphere can never go mainstream once its figureheads are hidden. Well I shouldn’t say that because Roosh and Roissy aren’t anonymous. But a movement cannot go mainstream when 95% of its members are hidden (by face that is). Ppl just won’t take it seriously. One cannot advocate being Alpha when you’re hiding. It’s like saying fuck gays when you’re partying @ gay-pride parades. I’m not saying for guys to come out and reveal their faces. Just saying that, if the Manosphere wants respect and acknowledgment, its bloggers must surface at times by posting a pic… Read more »

Erudite Knight
9 years ago

When it goes mainstream, the haters are really going to be rolling out.

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

You are absolutely correct Kenny. Why should anyone take an anonymous opinion seriously? With no backing of a human being with a name and credentials, it’s just hot air. Besides which, as you insinuate, clinging to anonymity is fairly beta behavior. I would say the best shot at legitimacy is convincing a respected sociologist of the painful truth contained in the manosphere. Or, failing that, writing enough widely-sold/distributed books that the truth is as plain as the sky is blue. There’s still inherent risk to people like myself if we just suddenly started blogging about gold-digging whores in an open… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

You’re being somewhat sarcastic I see. But don’t base it on the name as you keep doing. Whether a guy uses his real name or not, as long as he performs and live the life he claims and show us that he does, then that’s all we need for credibility. Reason I linked anonymity in this sense with Beta-malism is quite simple: Betas hide, Alpha aren’t afraid to take the heat, be scrutinized, laughed at, etc. The biggest attribute of an Alpha is his IDGAF what you think attitude. You cannot truly have this attitude and simultaneously be anonymous. Being… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

And to make this a lot simpler, I’m not even talking about splashing your photo all across your blog’s header. Just having a gravatar image alone of yourself is what I really meant to be honest. A miniature pic says much; that you’re a real person and not a computer meme or something. Sure you can put up a fake photo of someone else as your avatar to accompany your comments, but we trust that guys won’t stoop that low to use their little brother’s photo as their own.

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

@Rollo- Cool!

Kate
Kate
9 years ago

I understand trepidation, but I also feel like if I want to live truly free, other people have to know who I really am, and I can’t be ashamed for them to know it. I feel like once you have a certain reputational helft behind you, people aren’t going to mess with you. Or you’re prepared and have the proper security and protection measures in place. Thrusting one or two people into the spotlight as sacrificial lambs to be slaughtered so the rest of us can stay safe is not right. It needs to be a team approach. People need… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

Kenny, no, I’m not being sarcastic. I concede points when I’m wrong and I take the perspective of the person I’m talking to if I can stomach it. What you are saying is not unreasonable at all. I just feel that anonymity can’t be discarded, yet.

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Ok, point taken. And by the way, I’m definitely no Brad Pitt. I grew up being told I’m ugly, called banana face in school, shamed, etc. But my attitude and vibe is that of a Greek God when it comes to reinforcing how good I look, despite being told I’m ugly throughout my entire life. So for the Manosphere guys who are hiding because of their looks (or lack thereof); man up and come out the closet (in a sense) LOL! Guys however like you Jeremy and the ones who claim to be anonymous in safeguarding their jobs; then remain… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

Kenny, you are like a 12 year old girl on a sugar high. No one is going to change their opinion on whether they want to risk their personal and professional lives being fucked in the face just because you enthusiastically repeat that they should. It’s super-fantastic that you love PUA so much that you’ve made it your entire identity but the rest of us have lives outside of pickup. Yes, I’ve picked up girls by telling them I’m a PUA. Yes, it’s exciting when you discover you can do that. But down the road when you’re significant enough that… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

@YaReally- I get you. My previous comment was for the guys who do want to crawl out of anonymity but never been encourage to by the Manosphere. The guys who wanna remain in hiding; I guess they won’t change that is what you’re saying. I agree.

And I don’t brag about chicks I pick up. I’ve been on both sides of the spectrum also (from extreme Beta to a social guy).

Case
Case
9 years ago

Ok – I just listened to the whole thing and having done so I have to say I don’t really understand the discussion we’ve had about it. For one, I don’t agree that 3MM “dropped the ball”. It was a public/media discussion, there were elements of hostility to 3MM that were obvious but tempered, and then more tempered, but at no point would I say he dropped the ball. Actually I would say that this should be an encouragement to anyone – if this is the worst you can expect from MSM exposure it’s not so bad. Go for it.… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

@Socialkenny

…although I still see it as an excuse.

Remaining anonymous before the bursting of a movement onto the public scene is like contemplating what you are going to say before a big public speech. It is the margin that allows good thinkers to flesh out the ideas that must find expression in language before the test comes.

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

I’ll have to try decipher that 1. I’m not being a dick, but I didn’t quite get that analogy.

Fred Flange the Munificent
Fred Flange the Munificent
9 years ago

The way to talka bout the manosphere is not to talk about the manosphere. Dont’ tell your sob story. Be a social observer. You’ve seen the modern SMP, the growing MGTOW contingent,the unhappiness to BOTH men and women AND the damage done to marriage and family by the “boys are stupid throw rocks at them” mindset of the past 30 years. Never blame feminism outright on an MSM show; no need, sounds whiny; but do chronicle its sins as general socital problems..

Case
Case
9 years ago

Rollo, lots of authors publish pseudonymously. It’s not unusual, there’s no shame it in, it has ancient, historical and modern precedent, you are on totally firm ground to do so. It almost alarms me a bit that you would consider jeopardizing your brands by trading in the pseudonym. Most authors get paid shit. Most books are not best sellers and a book does have to be a best seller to buy a one-life meal ticket. I counsel great caution over breaking anonymity. Not at all clear what there is in it for you. re: your remarks about Roissy and his… Read more »

pym
pym
9 years ago

Omega male: http://paleyoungmen.wordpress.com

Danger
Danger
9 years ago

They key to handling the MSM is the same as handling women, or politics. It is ALL about the framing. When they call you mysoginistic, you tell them that you give women what they want. When they accuse you of being bad, you tell them women like bad boys. When they say you want women home cleaning the kitchen, you tell them also that women want men home cleaning the kitchen. When they say you are manipulative, you tell them so are makeup and high-heels. No matter the accusation, you always reframe it to expose their lack of awareness and… Read more »

Different T
Different T
9 years ago

“The way to talka bout the manosphere is not to talk about the manosphere. Dont’ tell your sob story. Be a social observer. You’ve seen the modern SMP, the growing MGTOW contingent,the unhappiness to BOTH men and women AND the damage done to marriage and family by the “boys are stupid throw rocks at them” mindset of the past 30 years.” If this comment section is any indication, the drive for fame and the further refinement of the beta’s instinct to white-knight won’t allow this. “In girl-world, women are the sole arbiters of relationship wisdoms – men are simply foils… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago

@Case: Oh I’ll be leveraging the Rollo Tomassi pseudonym as my author name for the book for a couple reasons. First being that RT is what anyone in the manosphere will recognize, and two being for protection of my livelihood.

My concern with going public will be more about MSM attention than anything else. It’s one thing to do podcasts it’s another to do in-person interviews.

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago

Annnnd,..right on cue Aunt Giggles chimes in with her own distortions. See what I mean now 3MM?

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2013/04/04/politics-and-feminism/game-and-cowering-bad-boys

And you thought I was patronizing you.

Good Luck Chuck
Good Luck Chuck
9 years ago

Dude, it has nothing to do with professional career. That is just a hogwash Manosphere excuse. Obviously you have no career or reputation to lose, otherwise you would look at this a little differently. Here’s a little story for ya. I have been sick for a couple of years. The details of my health problems aren’t important for this discussion, but to make a long story short- it was caused by a prescription medication and it isn’t something that most doctors either know about or are willing to acknowledge, so about the only way you can get knowledge and support… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago

Come on with the excuses bro! The give up blogging. That would be the logical decision. And for clarification, I’m not saying for guys to put their photo and real name on their header. What I’m saying is, if a Manospherian was to write a post about buffing up and MMA, then it’s only fair that he post a pic or 2 of himself to appear more real to his audience. What would be wrong with that? Absolutely nada! So why won’t any Manosphere guy do that? Comes down to looks and insecurities again. The only Manosphere guy I’ve seen… Read more »

deti
deti
9 years ago

“the feminine imperative will control the message for you, and they’re learning the profitability in encouraging this kind of debate.”

Yep, Susan Walsh is already in, calling out anonymous bloggers and essentially saying “if you believe it, then stand up, be counted, and say it loud and proud”.

Matthew King
Matthew King
9 years ago

I nominate Good Luck Chuck for spokesman. (Sorry if my support kills your candidacy, brother.) Why tinker around with an internet business when you can lead a cultural revolution!

Kate for archgeisha.

YaReally confesses:

God, I feel like King A “lecturing the young’uns”. I must be getting old.

Welcome to the officer’s club, adept. Enjoy the promotion.

Matt

deti
deti
9 years ago

Moreover, Susan calls out Dalrock for blogging anonymously, in obvious reference to her dustup with him around Christmas 2011 leading to the First Great HUS Purge. Then she calls out Badger who hasn’t commented on Susan’s blog for a year. She’s called Badger out on HUS by his nom de blog before and publicly criticized some of his posts. Her feuds with Rollo are well known. It appears to me that her calling out Dalrock, Rollo and Badger as examples of “cowardly” anonymity smacks of something personal going on. It looks like taking jabs and swipes at bloggers who have… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  deti

@Deti- I never followed Susan nor ever checked out any of her stuff but if it’s true that she’d called out Badger Hut and Dalrock on their anonymity, then I can co-sign her point as valid. The way I see it is, taking jabs at someone who is public while you’re in hiding is sort of cowardly. The Alpha Persona, Ferdinand Bardamu, Beer and Concrete and Professor Mentu of Uman had all attacked me during our Twitter wars and on their blog posts. I retaliated and wiped them out literally. All of their blogs are now deceased. What was my… Read more »

deti
deti
9 years ago

Susan’s latest reads like little more than shaming language and sophisticated taunting. “Whatsa matter, Dalrock, Rollo and Badger? Are you CHICKEN?”

S I
S I
9 years ago

An I the only one who noticed that the huff po bitchh used roisys maxim (or was it ur rollo)

The person who cares the least has most power int he relationship..

It was amazing to watch her reaction when 3mm said that indirectly women hit the wall and are no longer useful to bad boys .

Matthew King
Matthew King
9 years ago

You are fighting the war on the enemy’s terms and in the enemy’s territory. The culture will not be changed from the inside by deliberating gently and depending on persuasion by rhetoric. The enemy hasn’t just rejected that for a generation, it has turned such naïve generosity back upon those they are pledged to destroy. Not only does the enemy enjoy all the commanding heights of culture, it accepts dissent exclusively in ways that allow for that dissent’s comprehensive manipulation. Whatever PR agent booked that guy on that platform should be fired. Oh, he doesn’t have a PR guy? He’s… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

On Roissy, I ignore everything on his site that isn’t male/female dynamic related. The racist political etc shit is just nonsense and every article he posts about that I think “well no point checking the blog this week” and consider not posting there anymore. But his posts about pickup are 1) dead on and 2) not afraid to venture into controversial parts of seduction/psychology, that I have the most fun posting there lol I get banned on Sue’s blog for daring to even bring up “dark triad” shit for discussion, but Roissy is all about diving into the mud…discussing uncomfortable… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

Kenny, you are still retarded. lol

YaReally
9 years ago

3 things on Sue: 1) She has great frame control. Her frames are clearly retarded but she jumps into them with 100% conviction and steamrolls over her weaker-framed audience. 2) Her message is so blue-pill and acceptable to the MSM that of course she doesn’t have to be concerned about using her real name. She hasn’t done anything significant/controversial that would piss the MSM off in her life. 3) Note that her and Kenny are both approaching this in terms of “do THIS so you can win over your opposers!” Would she un-ban me if I showed her a pic… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

Digging up skeletons based on your photo? Come on! That’s a big far fetched. Digging up dirt on your real name is more plausible.

And how dare you group me in with Susan. I doubt that we’re coming from the same frame and position.

As for Tyler Durden and Styles; I agree! But as I eluded to earlier, their aliases were justified.

Retrenched
Retrenched
9 years ago

Manosphere bloggers who use their real names tend to fall into one of three categories..

1. when their message isn’t too far outside of the PC mainstream — i.e., their ideas aren’t controversial enough to make them unemployable,

2. when they can make a decent living by writing under their real names (Aaron Clarey, Paul Elam, Athol Kay) or

3. when they have nothing to lose (Matt Forney).

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Retrenched

@Retrenched- No one is advocating for guys to use their real names. I’m advocating that whenever guys write field reports, it’d be much more convincing if there were accompanying photo(s) in the posts. Show the face, not the name. That is my position.

Inane Rambler (Formerly Unending Improvement)

Hey, go ahead and delete that previous comment. I guess I already missed y’all jumping on it.

YaReally
9 years ago

@Kenny “I’m advocating that whenever guys write field reports, it’d be much more convincing if there were accompanying photo(s) in the posts. Show the face, not the name. That is my position.” It is a stupid position, and you are a stupid person for not understanding why. Do you want me to post videos of girls sucking my dick for you to jack off to? You have a video of yourself harassing an ugly girl who isn’t interested in you on your blog. No one cares about whether they have your respect or not. (see what I did there? Now… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

It’s not about me, it’s about the wider audience and credibility of this genre. No one will ever take the Manosphere serious as long as guys keep thinking that the movement can pick up steam with the mainstream in hiding.

Good Luck Chuck
Good Luck Chuck
9 years ago

Digging up skeletons based on your photo? Come on! That’s a big far fetched.

You must be new:

http://www.google.com/insidesearch/features/images/searchbyimage.html

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
9 years ago

@Good Luck Chuck

You do understand that you are arguing with SocialKenny, right?

http://mattforney.com/2012/09/13/my-day-of-rolling-like-kenny/

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  FuriousFerret

@Furious- Matt Forney was lucky that I let his ass off the hook or his blog would’ve perished just like the other 10 or more clown bloggers who elected to attack me.

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
9 years ago

I do admire your frame though Kenny. It defines irrational self confidence hence the ‘Roll Like Kenny’ slogan.

Candide
Candide
9 years ago

This is an information war. You don’t need to go public to do that. Being anonymous works fine. The enemies goading you to go public is only for them to have targets to shoot at. What they are really afraid of is that there is no target, a movement with no leader to assassinate.

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Candide

It’s not that serious. This isn’t Al-Qaeda vs the west.

YaReally
9 years ago

Looks like you got under her skin, Rollo: http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2013/04/04/politics-and-feminism/game-and-cowering-bad-boys/comment-page-2/#comment-197533 Love the implied threat of exposing you there. Same shit she did with Minter before. Like I say it’s her go-to when she can’t argue facts/logic: try to threaten/slander the person themselves. And it’s exactly why the Manosphere should stay annonymous. Anyway, in other news, MikeC posted my comment on her blog. Even when she bans me, people can’t resist facts and logic lol she can shit on me all she wants but what I write resonates with guys and the ones curious will listen. The Manosphere’s target audience should be… Read more »

Martel
9 years ago

@Socialkenny: “It’s not that serious. This isn’t Al-Qaeda vs the west.” Who knows which is more “serious”, but they’re in the same league. If we rot from within, we won’t stand a chance against any external enemy. I see anonymity or the lack thereof as nothing more than a tactical choice. Your real name and/or face can be an incredbily effective weapon, but it sets you up for some pretty brutal counter-attacks. If you’re an intelligent strategist, you weigh the advantages of using your real name against the disadvantages and act accordingly. An advantage to anonymity is that there’s less… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

Another way to look at convincing the audience: We’ve all tried to get guy-friends into game or to swallow some of the red pill. That’s like the first thing you do when you find it, you go “wow this is brilliant and puts so many puzzle pieces together! I want all my bros to have this wisdom too!” So you try getting your friends into game but…what’s this? They resist? Not only do they resist, some of them ridicule you for it or are outright hostile about it! Can’t they SEE?? How could they not want to open their eyes??… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

Good Luck Chuck wrote on Sue’s blog: “If I were to use my real identity in the manosphere all it would take is for one person to stumble across a comment that *might” be able to be misconstrued as misogynistic or distasteful and my ass is toast.” Sue replied: “*Might?* How about if it is misogynistic and your ass deserves to be toast?” So she’s basically admitting the sole purpose of wanting guys to toss away their annonymity is so she can make them “toast”. There you have it in black & white. She didn’t actually give a shit about… Read more »

Martel
9 years ago

@BananaHammock: I VERY respectfully disagree. Still, your description of those few guys on the fence who google 3M’s blog was spot on. Bringing the manosphere into the mainstream is not a worthy goal. However, I think that bringing the mainstream into the manosphere is. I’d draw an analogy between getting dudes to swallow the Pill with game itself. Before the Pill, it was about finding that special girl who would be receptive to us “being ourselves.” Either she was going to like us, or she wasn’t. We were shooting for that 10%. As you learn game, there are still women… Read more »

Candide
Candide
9 years ago

It’s a very female thing to have a need to personify or personalise ideas and things. Men can deal easily with the abstract as long as the idea is sound and survives field testing. We don’t need to know who Rollo T actually is, as long as what he writes makes sense and we can benefit from it.

Good Luck Chuck
Good Luck Chuck
9 years ago

Good god Rollo, why did you have to link to that piece of shit blog again?

“*Might?* How about if it is misogynistic and your ass deserves to be toast?”

I almost pissed myself when I saw that.

YaReally
9 years ago

lol’ed at bananahammock “I therefore don’t accept that we’re relegated to just convincing the occasional dude who already wants to be convinced.” I agree with you’re whole comment, my point is simply that the platforms the MSM give us will not be conducive to actively spreading our message like you suggest. Like, a prisoner who wants to get out early by behaving good is out of luck if the prison guard never drops by his cell. The guy who comes up with a male contraceptive pill will never be given a platform by feminists to let us know about it.… Read more »

Transmillenium
9 years ago

Watch this: [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjOrOMVFCbs]

Martel
9 years ago

@Transmillenium: awesome @ Banana: “Down the road when the movement is more widespread, that’s when we can reveal ourselves and get more in-depth on these topics and speak to a more receptive audience. But right now we’re in the infancy of a revolution/movement and we have to work within that as optimally and efficiently as possible and trust that down the road we’ll get bigger and better opportunities to spread the pill.” One way we need to do this is to keep the people who’ve swallowed it from spitting it back up. I’ve had an idea on how to maybe… Read more »

( @ Y @ )
( @ Y @ )
9 years ago

“”@ Höllenhund thanks for the good link
Dr. Jordan Peterson is a beacon of reason and many here will appreciate him. Not only for his perspectives that relate to this sphere, but for his broader and deeper work.””

Agreed, he was very good. You could tell he was bursting with some real red pill knowledge but the confines of political correctness wouldn’t let him. He even makes a point about current PC hindering any real discussion. Him and Mark Regnerus knew their shit, the other younger 2 not so much.

John
John
9 years ago

Instead of being so eager to break the “feminist imperative”, enjoy the show. The more beta men = the less competition for women.

Regent
Regent
9 years ago

@John

Your short-sighted, “in it for myself” view, is half the reason we’re in this mess. When you’re girlfriend “forgets to take the pill” and you end up with a kid you didn’t want and the government bending you over the table and extracting your hard earned income, then tell me how all those beta enablers that propagate the current status quo are benefiting you?

Kate
Kate
9 years ago

@SI: That is a pretty commonly known concept in any relationship advice realm. I’m not sure Roissy originated it. @GLC: That is despicable and I pray for your health. There are psychotics out there online for sure. I’ve met them. One had me so snowed for a while she even had my phone number. When things soured, I fully anticipated the worst, but it wasn’t so bad. It took over a year, but eventually those she turned against me saw her for who she really was. In general: the power someone like Susan Walsh has is that they are presumable… Read more »

itsme
itsme
9 years ago

Digging up skeletons based on your photo? Come on!

kenny, i guess you don’t realize that there are reverse image search engines now? if i had a photo of you, i can plug it into the search engine and it will find occurrences of it on the web. if you keep everything on the dl, maybe the search engine won’t dig up any pages with personal information. but maybe the results lead to a page with other photos of you, which i can then use to do more searches, etc.

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  itsme

@Itsme- Dude, y’all are really taking this shit too seriously. I mean, what am I missing here? I’ve yet to hear a single case of any Manosphere, Game, seduction or PUA blogger getting framed or fucked due to his photos being searched online. The doom and gloom theories y’all guys revert to is just hilarious. And this is why the Manosphere is a joke as it is today: too many paranoid guys. Life is fucking short! Live it up! Live on the edge! Take fucking risks! Life in itself is a risk and gamble since we all can get our… Read more »

Professor Blowhard (aka Cane Caldo or CL)
Professor Blowhard (aka Cane Caldo or CL)
9 years ago

The Manosphere will go mainstream and will be recognized for the sophistry and poor analyzing skills of its bloggers. Rollo’s analysis is stunted by his poor reading of biology and psychology, and a narrow understanding of human nature. He sounds like a French philosopher drawing arcane abstractions from very superficial observations. Foucalt would have admired him. Rollo is not the inquisitive type who is driven with a passion to know. He is only obsessed with knowing the ways of women, but he doesn’t know how. I don’t think he ever reads books, which is reflected in the conversational style of… Read more »

Matthew
9 years ago

Socialkenny is suspiciously eager to shame people into outing themselves. The only other topic he discusses is how he gets blogs shut down. If he’s a plant, his bosses really ought to dock his pay.

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  Matthew

Very funny Matt.

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago

Well it appears that Aunt Giggles the coward has bit off more than she could chew with the manosphere (even an orgy of attention has its limits) and has gone back to purging and censoring her comments again. My guess is she’ll delete the whole post by the end of the day so as not to sully the impression her blog advertisers have of her. There’s something to be said about the validity of your message when you’re beholden to advertising interests. Really Suz, your histrionics even surprised me this time. @SSM, hopefully you’re reading my comments here, but what… Read more »

Lumpy
Lumpy
9 years ago

Almost every YaReally post ever.

http://yareally-archive.s3.amazonaws.com/201211.html

Underdog
Underdog
9 years ago

The more I observe Susan, the more I despise her. She runs her site like Nurse Ratchet.

sunshinemary
9 years ago

@ Rollo I know Aunt Giggles and you are no Aunt Giggles. Thank you. Oddly, I had been considering commenting here that I finally concede some of your points about the feminine imperative. Previously, I didn’t agree and wasn’t seeing it, but I see it now oh-so-clearly in what Mrs. Walsh writes. She wrote that she “understands game very well.” I find that odd because while I don’t understand game very well, I understand it well enough to know that wide-spread knowledge of it will not quickly lead to the production of sexy husband-bots that Mrs. Walsh seems to think… Read more »

Kate
Kate
9 years ago

Rollo, I assume you appear as yourself on that video. I can’t watch it at work and I’ve been cut off at home from the internet/social media till I get my computer a new battery. Anyway, very cool. I think you fall into the category of someone who is their screename completely. There would be no reason to use your legal name. You ARE Rollo Tomassi. That is what you have built your reputation on. Look, when I agreed to put my real name in Savoy’s book, I was a little concerned. But, I was proud to be a part… Read more »

bob
bob
9 years ago

“@Itsme- Dude, y’all are really taking this shit too seriously. I mean, what am I missing here? I’ve yet to hear a single case of any Manosphere, Game, seduction or PUA blogger getting framed or fucked due to his photos being searched online. The doom and gloom theories y’all guys revert to is just hilarious. And this is why the Manosphere is a joke as it is today: too many paranoid guys. Life is fucking short! Live it up! Live on the edge! Take fucking risks! Life in itself is a risk and gamble since we all can get our… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  bob

@Bob- So they should stop fucking blogging! It’s as simple as that! If it’s too much on the line; then stick to playing video games! Y’all dudes are fucking whiners in this Manosphere BS, and it’s readily apparent to me why no of you guys get laid nor have a life. I’d written about this before: 99% of the Manosphere is saturated by guys who have no fucking life besides work to home; which means no fucking life. Being a android/robot is not a life! 99 % of the Manosphere writers are couch-potatoes who don’t have a social life, never… Read more »

Mark Minter
9 years ago

Off thread to Rollo. I had a facebook message from kid who read comments of mine on PBS and he wrote me. I pointed him to you. Here is a follow up I got today. “I’m 21 after reading rational male I can say I took the red pill. It fits into my worldview of biology (men and women ARE DIFFERENT! !!) I just never had these trends related to me by any men, I was raised by 4 women and my father who works 60 hour weeks to this day, never explaining much of anything. The part I enjoy… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

@Rollo “My guess is she’ll delete the whole post by the end of the day so as not to sully the impression her blog advertisers have of her.” Yep, probably. That one really backfired on her lol not only did we all stomp all over her silly shaming/goading tactics, but even her own audience chimed in against her article, and on top of it she just slammed 3MM who conducted himself with calm and reserve. She must spend all day in a perpetual hamster spin. I could write such a psychological breakdown of Sue and the repetitive tactics she uses,… Read more »

itsme
itsme
9 years ago

@socialkenny

you asked how someone’s pic could possibly be used to harm him. i gave an answer.

did you start off the day with too much refined sugar?

b-166-er
b-166-er
9 years ago

The manosphere would do well to study groups like the Nation of Islam who also had to develop a “code” for dealing with mainstream media who pretended to want to interview them, but really want to discredit them. One technique they learned (and this also goes for dealing with the police) is to only answer QUESTIONS, and never answer STATEMENTS. If a person has a question, force them to ask it by refusing to respond to a STATEMENT with a STATEMENT of your own. Also, if you get a vague question, translate it into clear language, repeat it back to… Read more »

Socialkenny
9 years ago
Reply to  b-166-er

True.

b-166-er
b-166-er
9 years ago

I’ve yet to hear a single case of any Manosphere, Game, seduction or PUA blogger getting framed or fucked due to his photos being searched online. ———————————————————————– Back off Kenny. It is rare for the victim to be OPENLY attacked for what got the attention of the perp. You get attacked for something else, even if its not true. Remember the “Million Man March?”. Lots of black males said: “I would attend, but I don’t want to get in trouble…” Rather than attack them for telling you the truth, it is better to remind them their “excuse” is proof they… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
9 years ago

Roosh “WF Price probably fits this profile best.”
Seems like Price is on the verge of folding. He’s being bled white.

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago

@SSM, Susan’s express mission of her blog is to build a better beta: https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/build-a-better-beta/ For her, Game is only a tool to better effect the feminine imperative, so whenever she concedes anything about Game it’s in the context of how it will exclusively better women’s lives. Any derivation from that context is labeled selfish, misogynistic and ‘Dark Triad’ no matter how self-destructive the ends to which her beta army will go to in order to placate to the feminine imperative. Aunt Giggles is a fish in water being told she’s wet. Anything that exclusively benefits women implicitly MUST also benefit… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

@Kate …I showed the book to a few people in my real life and the topic is just so far off their radar, they were just like, oh, that’s nice Katherine. lol They have NO idea. That would be a nice topic to explore, the willfull ignorance of the SMP that has persisted for thousands of years. What we call “red-pill wisdom” is not a difficult concept by any stretch of the imagination. You don’t need fancy sociology degrees to get it. All you need is a little bit of experience and open eyes and the painful truth fits perfectly.… Read more »

Retrenched
Retrenched
9 years ago

Susan isn’t so much against game; she’s against game when it’s used to further men’s SMP goals rather than women’s SMP goals. Basically, she wants nice betas to learn just enough game to make themselves into appealing relationship prospects for carousel riding party girls, but not quite enough game to where they’d be able to join in that carousel party themselves.

Retrenched
Retrenched
9 years ago

Ah okay, I see Rollo said pretty much the same thing in different words.

Kate
Kate
9 years ago

Okay, I just skimmed through the neary three full pages of comments over at hookinguptart. Rule #1 of internet wars: don’t fight the enemy on their own territory. Be proactive, not reactive. I think that was Rollo’s original point here.

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago
Reply to  Kate

I have a feeling Giggles is going to delete my last post there, so you’ll have to excuse my c&p here: OK Suz, I understand your inherent feminine need to manufacture your own indignation when you feel lacking in attention. I’m always an easy source of that for you because I’m the only one of the big four who’ll come over to your sandbox and play with you. You ever notice that while everyone in the manosphere spreads their comments around other blogs Suz almost never does? Again, kind of cowardly. However, the question I want to ask is this:… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Yep, I was right.

Mark Minter
9 years ago

That Mark Minter sex offender guy lives in Florida. I live in Texas. There is also a Mark Minter that is big deal at Nintendo. Notice she didn’t pull him out to confuse him me. Also that Mark Minter sex offender guy has a mug shut. My Facebook photo is readily viewable.

But fuck ’em. Here I am. Come get me motherfuckers.

Kate
Kate
9 years ago

@Jeremy: That’s a lot of questions! 🙂 “Is it just too painful? Is it too personal?” Most people have trouble with introspection and criticism, even when its constructive. “Are women unwilling to recognize the fleeting nature of their wonderful gift of SM power? Are they deliberately blind to the precious little time this gives them to find the man they want? Are they intentionally ignoring how horrible their future can be without a committed man by their side as they age? Are men lying to themselves about women because of an instinct to protect them? Are men willfully failing to… Read more »

Mark Minter
9 years ago

I have a joking thought sometimes that the Mark Minter sex offender guy in Florida ever says

“Look, stop confusing me with Manosphere guy. I am Mark Minter the sex offender, not Mark Minter the Manosphere guy, OK? I’m sick of taking his fucking heat. Back off. I hate him for what he did to my name.”

Martel
9 years ago

@ b-166-er: Great stuff. I’m no fan of the NOI, but quality of delivery =/= quality of message.

Our advantage, should we choose to recognize it, is that the very Game fundamentals we teach to each other are what we can use to spread that message itself.

In our case, Truth=our message=the most effective way to convey that message

Jeremy
Jeremy
9 years ago

@Kate Most people have trouble with introspection and criticism, even when its constructive. That may be a fundamental aspect of human nature holding people back in this. I’ve always found introspection exceptionally easy and part of my daily thought process, so I can’t say I have any familiarity with a lifestyle of not self-examining. They are simply ignorant. Oh, I like the humans-are-ignorant argument more than anyone. My favorite quote is one from Einstein in this regard, you’ve probably heard it. However, I think in this case this argument actually requires a defense (yes, a shocking concept). The fundamental truths… Read more »

Martel
9 years ago

If anybody’s in the mood to spread the word, a mainstream conservative female blogger is just barely dipping her toe into red pill territory.

http://neoneocon.com/2013/04/05/marriage-when/

Good Luck Chuck
Good Luck Chuck
9 years ago

@GLC: That is despicable and I pray for your health. Thank you. The Mating Game isn’t the only area where a person can get screwed by not opening their eyes. It isn’t even the worst. Not even close. And it isn’t gender specific- there are more women dealing with this than there are men. I have lost a few years of my life to this and it still isn’t over. Just because I took a pill that was prescribed by my doctor without doing my own research. No one ever told me I had to do that. Just like no… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Good Luck Chuck
9 years ago

Another commenter over there keeps chiding her to respond to my comment. She has absolutely no way to respond, so of course she manages to redirect topic, essentially accusing me of being a misogynist in the process.

How convenient. Redirect, then break out the shaming language.

Ace Haley
9 years ago

Brave move the parm of 3MM. I think he knew this wasn’t gonna be a debate before the interview even started. A ‘discussion’ isn’t a free-flow of ideas. It’s an ‘education’ from one side to the other. It’s patronizing like what you would get with a Black nationalist about slavery if you have the guts to say there were Africans who played a big role in the whole thing.

It’s a meaningless conversation because what happened happened so that’s that.

Case
Case
9 years ago

Been a busy couple just caught up w/the comments and looks like we moved on (good thing) but my $0.02: I don’t know why anyone reads HUS.

YaReally
9 years ago

Someone wrote: “She does not understand that much of the “debate” will be bad-faith accusations of misogyny to guilt you into shutting up, and also to harm your livelihood.” Sue wrote: “Do we know of a single case of this? Someone getting fired for anti-feminist views? I have never heard of it. In fact, I have never heard of anyone being fired for personal views of any kind. Can you provide examples please? I remain convinced this is paranoia.” …………..well I think it’s pretty clear why no one can get the point of annonymity through to her. So much lol.… Read more »

Immediate
Immediate
9 years ago

Is this the only comment section in the manosphere that isn’t a complete circle jerk of libertarian blaming fantasies?

Good Luck Chuck
Good Luck Chuck
9 years ago

Just left this comment. I’ll be surprised if it lasts past tomorrow morning: For someone who claims to be concerned about the message being able to stand on its own you have to rely on an awful lot of weak feminist style debate tactics to avoid backing up your own positions. In the comments of this post alone you have resorted to attacking people’s looks, attacking relatives, accusations of misogyny (a catch-all term for anything that is critical of women, right or wrong), comment moderation/deletion, accusations of cowardice, oh yea…..and redirecting the argument when a logical response would have discredited… Read more »

Miguel
Miguel
9 years ago

I’ve addressed Susan a few times for some of the claims that she’s made. I’ve been fairly neutral to her and have tried not to sound hostile towards her. She did manage to throw in a jab at me saying that I’m not good looking like “Tom Brady” to even make glances at her like 3MM had suggested on that quote used in the HuffPo interview. But she hasn’t even managed to address the arguments that I’ve made. I’m just gonna go out on a small limb here and say that she’s really not much of an intelligent person. I… Read more »

BC
BC
9 years ago

Giggles is a valuable asset to the manosphere because she is a real world example of the feminine imperative and feminist-in-moderate/male-friendly-clothing. Her posts and real-time (i.e., until she edits and deletes) comment/moderation behavior also provide a good litmus test as to whether someone is truly red pill or ready to start taking the red pill.

krauserpua
9 years ago

I sometimes get recognised when walking around London. Some guy will come up and say he reads my blog, a guy I’ve never seen before who is trying his hand at daygame. It’s all quite innocent so I give them the time of day. I remember how it was to be in their shoes. But it happens about 1 in 5 times I go out around the daygame spots. What would happen if I was as high profile as Roosh and also had haters? How much more attention would I attract and what type of attention? Haters have zero morals.… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
9 years ago

Ace : “It’s a meaningless conversation because what happened happened so that’s that.” Being a Brit, I get that a lot when the slavery thing pops up. “Education”. Just deflect it by saying “no, it must have bin them other guys, they’re even whiter”, and pointing at the nearest Polack or Swede. TBF my “people’s” experience of slavery is limited to centuries of mass abductions by Muslim pirates, up until the State got its Navy up to scratch and was able to go after them. And the deportation of conquered (mainly Celtic) tribes as slave labor to the New World.… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
9 years ago

krauser: “There’s a cost to having some of your identity public when you are telling “truth to power”. In a more extreme example, who are the very first people to be rounded up by the secret police?” If your public profile develops, I wouldn’t be surprised if a will arises among the GuardianReader/SJWs to harass the Met into putting a tail on you, for being a “stalker” or “serial harasser” of “vulnerable (foreign) wimminz” or some such bollocks. At the very least they might pilot the facial recognition on the CCTV networks before the next riots using you as a… Read more »

Höllenhund
Höllenhund
9 years ago

With respect to anonymous Manosphere bloggers, there are a number of simple factors in effect. If you bother to read that HUS post and the comments, you’ll see that Game and its mainstream image isn’t the issue really discussed there. Walsh is merely using that TV segment as an excuse to declare that nobody should able to spread „misogyny” online anonymously. Nothing more, nothing less. She doesn’t say, of course, that misogynists should be silenced and censored. What she does say is that they should be able to say what they want, but only if they suffer all and any… Read more »

Case
Case
9 years ago

@Immediate 11:21 pm wrote:
“Is this the only comment section in the manosphere that isn’t a complete circle jerk of libertarian blaming fantasies?”

Amen man, amen.
Breath o’ cool, fucking crisp and clean ocean fresh air here. One of many reasons I love this place.

Kate
Kate
9 years ago

I’m back! (In Google chrome/mobile hotspot heaven!) Is she actually advocating that, Hollenhund? I would advise people to stop posting there.

Höllenhund
Höllenhund
9 years ago

She does. Look at that thread and see for yourself. She comes up with all sorts of pop psychology explanations why anonymous Manosphere bloggers hide their identity for nefarious reasons. She specifically attacks some of them for being “cowards”. Plus she describes how any of her female readers can contract an IT expert to track down the IP address of a blogger and then find his real identity. She’s whipping her female readers into an orgy of hatred, which isn’t terribly difficult considering that most of them are frustrated, luckless, bitter single women on a straight path to spinsterhood.

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