Build a Better Beta

For women, nothing is both as frightening and arousing than a Man aware of his own value.

[In light of Aunt Giggles recently going off her meds and clamoring for her weekend bender of attention, I’ve decided to re-post this from December of 2011. Considering the hostility lobbed at the manosphere lately I thought it was quite prophetic.]

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I got a metric ton of feedback with regards to my Mrs. Doubtfire post and the notion of Game being co-opted to serve the feminine imperative. This sparked an interesting exchange on more than a few blogs and forums. All of this led me to do a bit of research into how Game principles, not necessarily Game in practice, is being subverted to address feminine-centric mandates. Even the idea of ‘false flag‘ blogging in the manosphere has been suggested as a means to more effectively establish a male-specific popular perspective that might be considered more legitimate.

The problem intrinsic to all of that is that masculinity is now so ridiculed and delegitimized in our feminine-centric reality that any (lame) attempts at subterfuge only make the manosphere look even more like the boys club in the treehouse shooting spitwads at the “mature” girls below. It’s going to come off as game-playing and juvenile, and only serve to make any legitimate point or appeals to logic appear self-serving. That said, I do understand the necessity to be covert in expressing the principles behind Game from a pro-masculine perspective. Men blogging in the manosphere, whether it’s Game theory, PUA, MRA or MGTOW, all assume a horrible risk for publicly expressing their views that a proponent of feminism would rarely need to consider. Professionally, personally, and to an extent, even physically, manosphere bloggers paint a big target on themselves that very few people would sympathize with their being damaged for their outspokenness. If it looks like patriarchy, it’s OK to set their home on fire, and a feminized world of angry women and their identifier mangina sycophants will line up with torches to do so.

Building a Better Beta

None of this is really even a concern for the proponents of a fem-centric culture; they can rest comfortably in a self-affirming, social echo chamber without any real fear of persecution or risk to their career or reputations. However, the utility of exploiting Game in theory (not in practice) to better serve that female centrism hasn’t gone unnoticed. This has given rise to what might be called “sanitized Game” – take the primary elements of Game to build a better Beta. With such an overwhelming social undercurrent for men to ‘Man-Up’ today it’s really simple pragmatism to reinterpret Game to serve the expectations and entitlements inherent in fem-centrism. Thus we see Game concepts being co-opted by social conservatives, so-called female manosphere sympathizers and christo-religious revisionists all blogging in disclaimered agreement with Game principles insofar as it serves their particular delusion. What they fail to recognize is that, for all of their efforts to contort Game into their personal agenda’s boxes, they’re still living in and fostering a feminine-centric imperative. If there’s a definition of the Matrix, this is it.

I would argue that most, if not all, are unaware that this is the latent purpose they’re serving. The overarching  point is to create a more acceptable man for a female defined goal, NOT to truly empower any man. There is no feminine opposite to this; there is no counter effort to make women more acceptable to men – in fact this is actively resisted and cast as a form of slavish subservience. This is the extent of the feminine reality; it’s so instaurating that men, with the aid of  “concerned women”, will spend lifetimes seeking ways to better qualify themselves for feminine approval. That’s the better Beta they hope to create. One who will Man-Up and be the Alpha as situations and use would warrant, but Beta enough to be subservient to the feminine imperative. They seek a man to be proud of, one who’s association reflects a statement of their own quality, yet one they still have implicit control over.

Whether the reasonings are moral, entitlement or ‘honor bound’ in nature the end result is still feminine primacy. The sales pitch is one of manning up to benefit yourself, but the latent purpose is one of better qualifying for normalized feminine acceptance. What they cannot reconcile is that the same benefits that are inherent in becoming more Alpha (however you choose to define that) are the same traits that threaten his necessary position of subservience as a Beta. This is precisely why ‘real’ Game, and truly unplugging, cannot be sanitized. This social element wants to keep you plugged in; more Alpha, more confidence, more awareness, is a threat to fem-centrism. It’s great that all this Game stuff has finally got you standing up for yourself, but remember who’s got the vagina.

The Evolution of Game

In the beginning, Game was about little more than racking up lay-counts. For some guys this will never change; you can’t ignore the purely seductionist intent of the origins of Game. Game was (is) for getting laid, and along with that now comes a sort of stigma of the Player. It’s against the interests of the feminine imperative that a man might conceivably have some kind of secret, learned system that bypasses her (mythological) feminine intuitions and natural reservations. That’s a power that men have sought for millennia. Some might realize it to a degree through power, fame or fortune, but to distribute this figurative ability en masse would be a power shift that would put women at men’s mercy. With great power, should come great responsibility. This is the fear that Game represents to the feminine – even the concept of men ‘understanding’ women’s natures must necessarily be ridiculed and shamed even in the attempt. When women are knowable they lose the power of their only actionable agency over men.

Game has evolved into much more than just a set of replicable behaviors for PUAs to ply their craft and get laid. Somewhere along the way a man wondered why these behavior provoked the responses they do in women. What were the core elements that these behaviors and attitudes were operating on in women? Game is still about getting laid, but it’s progressed beyond just the practical. Game is really a catch-all term now for lack of a better one. It’s moved on to the theory, the principle and the psychology that makes us better Men, and makes women knowable. It’s very important that the vision you have of being a “better Man” originates with YOU, not with the idealisms of a plugged in moralist or women so fearful of your new awareness that they’ll make concerted efforts to supplant it with what makes you a better servant of their insecure imperative. Resist the idea of becoming a better Beta in girl-world and focus on being that Alpha Man as you define it.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Mr. Mitchell
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Mr. Mitchell
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This post is truly eye-opening and revealing of the culture we are living in today in America. This post has opened my eyes to my state as a man as I make a diligent effort to transition from greater beta to lower-mid alpha. In any event, I have a question Rollo, I noticed that I am always challenged by others when my ‘alpha side’ is displayed; usually people will try to be nice to me to try to get me to be beta or they become outright rude and disrespectful. Do you have any advice on how to handle this?

Jacob Ian Stalk
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Alpha has no meaning, context or relevance without women. By self-defining Alpha, men would merely switch the object of worship from women to men. Designing a better cart will not change the fact that it’s still behind the horse. “Thus we see Game concepts being co-opted by social conservatives, so-called female manosphere sympathizers and christo-religious revisionists all blogging in disclaimered agreement with Game principles insofar as it serves their particular delusion.” Why do you persist with this notion that the elders of the Manosphere – i.e. you, Roissy et all – invented the process that we’re now calling ‘Game’? The… Read more »

ybm
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ybm
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Maybe she finally drove that beta son of hers to eat a twelve gauge and is having guilt pangs. It must be tough growing up with a woman who birthed you that considers you a lower order lifeform compared to the guys your sister is servicing on weekends.

Then consider what her husband must think having to read his wife creaming over her past “alphas” and driving his daughter to service them, while disrespecting your son and heir.

That’s some devastating micro-aggression right there.

Different T
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@Rollo

You may also want to address game concepts being used as scapegoats, ways to generate plausible deniability, and a basis for cost externalization.

Though with your devout “amorality,” I am not sure you are able.

Have you considered how your definitions of “alpha” and “hypergamy” influence you?

Different T
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@Rollo

“I would argue that most, if not all, are unaware that this is the latent purpose they’re serving. The overarching point is to create a more acceptable man for a female defined goal, even if their goal is to truly empower any man.”

Johnycomelately
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Johnycomelately
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I think Aunt Giggles is in a difficult spot as I think she was sincerely hoping that she could become the sanitized face of game and cash in on her work in the media (as we know, women love fame). But she has clearly lost all credibility in the manosphere and has been bypassed by the media which is going directly to the source. 3rd MM’s appearance seems to have pissed her off as she has realized that her little project has become irrelevant (obviously the media reads the blogs and can see the writing on the wall) and will… Read more »

gregg
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gregg
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“There is no feminine opposite to this; there is no counter effort to make women more acceptable to men – in fact this is actively resisted and cast as a form of slavish subservience.” Could you please tell me how in the heaven could PUA create better women? The only kind of women PUA create is senseless WHORE. All the power woman has is nothing but a willingness of MEN to recognize and fuck her. Without this she is powerless. Again – her power depends on MEN willing to recognize and fuck her. Knowledge about women is necessary and in… Read more »

stonerwithaboner
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I’ve seen MGTOW compared to radical lesbian feminist separatists…

however, it seems like with the feminist separatist’s everyone was all, “don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.”

MGTOW seems the most hated by all the Futrelle types and much of the manosphere….

obviously with the continued atomization of society and such, MGTOW is more an opting out and not giving two shits about being called a loser…

So, just by walking out of a bad situation why are these guys hated so much???

gregg
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gregg
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“So, just by walking out of a bad situation why are these guys hated so much???”

Because those guys, not PUAs, pose a real THREAT to the system. They are hated by women, PUAs, white knights aka every slave working for women. If men opt out of feminine game, if they stop fueling feminine imperative – recognizing women unless women behave, all the femi-system collapses. Women are helpless without men, they need them.

Johnycomelately
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Johnycomelately
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Gregg

MGTOW might be fine for the cerebral low T types but not all men are cut from the same cloth.

Rollo is doing some serious good.

Rollo has been at the coal face (Sosauve and personal tragedy) and witnessed the emotional anguish good young men endure in the face of liberalized women.

I am certain his advice has saved lives.

His advice is amoral and while I may not agree with everything he writes he has helped countless men gain control of their personal lives.

Spoos in August
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@Gregg: Being the kind of man women want to sleep with is not a threat to the system, ipso facto. However, women have been sold the lie that they can be happy on the carousel forever, or marry whenever they want. The fact that men with options are no longer constrained, by both social convention and personal mores, to man up and marry those sluts is a decent-sized shock to the system. While I’m sympathetic to the men who simply choose to walk away, I think you ignore the fact that the feminine imperative will have its effect on you,… Read more »

Adam
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Adam
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What’s with the influx of Bible-thumping betas and MGTOW omegas? LOL.

Different T
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“MGTOW might be fine for the cerebral low T types but not all men are cut from the same cloth.”

This is not the issue. The current basis of the majority of the “manosphere” can, has, and likely will be used to perpetuate the foundations of “the cathedral.”

Different T
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Different T
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@Adam These are comments from the “It’s their game” post… Framed question: “So you lie to women and manipulate their emotions to take advantage of them?” Response: “No, unless you consider makeup, push-up bras, and high heels manipulation of men. We simply show men how to demonstrate their most attractive traits. A lot of guys don’t get a chance to show what great people they are because they’re too shy to express themselves and they try to become what they think women want. How many girls have run into guys who just nod their head and agree with everything they… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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I’d like to see some sort of Male Declaration of Independence. Then it might finally be clear what in the world you men want! smile If you’re holding marriage hostage until your demands are met, what are your conditions? What are your ninety-five theses?

biff
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So, Rollo, you don’t want an echo chamber like “Miss Giggles” runs over at HUS, right? Then, hear a dissenting voice. Why would HUS want to create PUAs or Alpha manwhores? If “building a better Beta” reduces divorce and keeps women happy, it will improve society. Tell me again how loving and leaving tons of women does that. It’s good info to have, and I appreciate the insights you provide, but I want to be a good father and husband foremost. If you have no offspring, you are a genetic failure. Most likely these days your caddy ONS spawn gets… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
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@Jacob, I think the problem evangelicals have with the manosphere identifying the FI is that it steals the biblical thunder they used to be able to claim about it and want back now that people outside the church have seen the effects of the FI and feminization in the church that they themselves have been blind to for several generations. It’s like the message is “don’t tell us churchians about the FI, we’ve been on top of that shit since the garden of eden”, but the thorn in their side is that it’s the manosphere who’s graphically been showing them… Read more »

Different T
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@biff

“If ‘building a better Beta’ reduces divorce and keeps women happy, it will improve society.”

FACEPALM

“I want to be a good father and husband foremost.”

As defined by whom? That was rhetorical, you gave your answer in the first quote.

@gregg

Do you see the extent of the rot and understand why Rollo compares this with triage?

DerHahn
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The root of the problem at HUS is her unwillingness to accept that there is no female “dad or cad” filter. “Cad” is a retrospective definition applied to an Alpha boyfriend who wouldn’t commit. If she accepted that philosphy she might actually do some good. As it stands she’s basically giving out tickets to the Carousel. I suspect that some of her poster-girls for taking the pink pill are beginning to realize this. I was perusing the comments on a post of hers a couple of weeks ago and one of her favored female comments confessed to breaking up with… Read more »

Pk
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Sorry, what happened exactly at HUS? I missed the backstory. Thx.

biff
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Different T, yeah I see the rot. Even though I have Beta tendencies, I know what I want. Sex before marriage used to make a woman a whore, unmarriagable–all across different societies for millenia. I wouldn’t use that language (whore) directly to a woman who slept with a couple of guys (not very helpful), but, at the same time, I wouldn’t marry one and think everything was OK (and I didn’t–I confirmed virginity before my marriage–and I deal with the fact that my wife thinks BJs are disgusting–I”m actually OK with that). I found most American women to be hopeless,… Read more »

biff
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“The root of the problem at HUS is her unwillingness to accept that there is no female “dad or cad” filter. “Cad” is a retrospective definition applied to an Alpha boyfriend who wouldn’t commit.” –By the way, I don’t really buy this. Women in many parts of the world are still trained to go for successful providers rather than sexy jerks. In those societies, women might screw a sexy jerk, but they would never marry them if they couldn’t show off their providing ability to their family (I’ve seen it happen many times–shifty boys relegating to f-buddy status–no tears for… Read more »

gregg
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@johnycome lately Rollo does a great job in spreading knowledge, no doubts about that. But this post was about manosphere going mainstream/having some influence on society. To enable this, you have to offer some value. Value that can not be easily swayed or ridiculed. Without real values manosphere does not change anything and remains underground forever. It is no miracle that guys are worried to post under their own names. They will be recognized and ridiculed/shamed -it is very easy, even teenage chick can do that – “ok, bro, you are doing all those things just to ehm..get LAID? Fucking… Read more »

Jeremy
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Gregg, The beginnings of game were rooted in reversing female rejection of male value, the most raw form of this is in the world of ONS pump&dump. The final expression of this re-valuing of men cannot be so frivolous or we would have to believe that we as men are worthless to begin with. I, personally, do not believe we are worthless as men. I believe men want to build a society and want to be major players in building society. History has shown this to be the case anyway, so belief is unnecessary. Men recognize, even through their constant… Read more »

Different T
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“However, I have strong Beta instincts, so I just couldn’t understand why my wife (after chasing me for so long) seemed to be getting so frustrated when I did everything I could to appease her.” “My point is that women getting unhaaaaapy and causing divorce messes up society quite a bit. Over 40% of kids born out of wedlock and nearly half of marriages ending in divorce.. you do the math… most kids growing without fathers.” “An HUS post on $h*t testing may have helped save my marriage” “Good father and husband is my definition.. but if my wife is… Read more »

gregg
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@ jeremy

hope so. I fought countless times in divorce courts, defended many brothers of ours. I´ve witnessed what are women capable of doing to loving husbands even to their children in the name of love, hypergamy, whatever. However, it is painful for me to watch mature men willingly embrace amorality as the solution. This is not the answer. Once we do that, we perish.

Mark Minter
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There is no meaning here. No meaning to Game. There is no grand finish line. This is about power and will to power. We have pointed out the fraudulent nature of cultural conditioning that society has imposed on you. And provided observations from other men on how to discard that conditioning and act in manners that decrease the limitations that culture has imposed on you to allow you to act with power and to have a will to power. You accept what we say here or you don’t. And personally, I could give a fuck if someone or some group… Read more »

biff
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biff
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@Mr. T, you’re killing it, there, bro. Facepalms up the wazoo, substantive issues are for looosers. Anyway, like I actually agree with Rollo that Susan totally fails to grasp that to “come out” as a man in favor of men’s rights to any extent makes you a social pariah and basically unemployable, which is a killing blow to most men. T, you prove it’s even unwise to show any hint of personality/weakness here, lest you be Facepalmed. In any case, I didn’t find anything to really rebut my central point, which is that HUS is likely to do more good… Read more »

itsme
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itsme
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Sorry, what happened exactly at HUS?

500 megaton hamster explosion.

business as usual…

man man
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man man
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“Could you please tell me how in the heaven could PUA create better women?” you are asking the wrong questions. you can’t “create better women”. such a thing never existed and never will. pua exposes men to the primal forces that drive female behavior. once you’ve seen those forces at work, there is no going back. you either play the Game or remove yourself from it. just because a guy sleeps with a lot of women, it doesn’t mean those women aren’t suffering for it. I always do my best to leave my sexual conquests worse off than before they… Read more »

Rol
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Rol
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Man, Mark Minter. I can’t logically disagree with anything you wrote. That’s a true talent you have for zeroing in on a concept and making a case for it that seems impossible to refute. It seems you’ve covered all bases. These kinds of posts are the epitome of “The Rational Male.”

Different T
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@biff Nothing has been said about “Susan.” and your point was “that women getting unhaaaaapy and causing divorce messes up society quite a bit.” Maybe this will help: “However, I have strong Beta instincts, so I just couldn’t understand why my wife (after chasing me for so long) seemed to be getting so frustrated when I did everything I could to appease her.” So you were logically trying to figure out how to make your wife haaaapy, correct? “My point is that women getting unhaaaaapy and causing divorce messes up society quite a bit. Over 40% of kids born out… Read more »

Jeremy
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@biff …In any case, I didn’t find anything to really rebut my central point, which is that HUS is likely to do more good than harm, all things considered. HUS is doing more harm than good. She is re-framing a perspective that is perfectly allowable to be a perspective that only “undesireables” would have. Her choice of subject and language is entirely geared to say that game is only good insofar as it helps women find men of value. It fundamentally fails to recognize the existing value in all men. If freedom & responsibility are to exist, they must exist… Read more »

Mark Minter
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@rollo, The Veritas Lounge essay is a very good explanation of FI and its relationship to Feminism, that Feminism was a mechanism for the FI to increase its power yet the FI isn’t feminism. Actually his term Female Leaning Super Norm would probably sit better with the general public and especially women then our Feminine Imperative. Our term is antagonistic and his isn’t. I think many men have this belief that women want to get married and that the FI is all about enforcing monogamy on men and restrict male sexual prerogatives. I had that thought when I first got… Read more »

biff
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@T –still failing on substantive issues. I can’t return your personal attacks since I know nothing about you. that’s fine. I don’t really care to. My mistake re: divulging personal information on here. @Jeremy, that’s a fair response, but I disagree. One of the tenets of the manosphere is that in the long run the feminist system hurts women. I would expect women to look out for their own interests the same way I would men to. If women can be persuaded that something more traditional is in their best interests, great. If the result is better than the current… Read more »

Stingray
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If women can be persuaded that something more traditional is in their best interests biff, You said if and that is a very good choice of words. It is a big if. Many women are getting away with riding the carousel, marry a good beta man, thinking that they are happy in their security, when in fact they are not. Only, they can’t figure out why they’re unhappy. Not only that, but picture someone suggesting that giving up control and letting the man dominate will bring them real happiness. This is anathema. Women grip control as if their lives depend… Read more »

krauserpua
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Beta males want to throw themselves under a bus for the good of society. They need a cause to serve and take pride in the sacrifice. They don’t have a will to power, so resent it in others. The manosphere doesn’t need mainstream approval. We are Atlas, who only needs shrug. The FI are the moochers and looters who require us. I personally don’t much care for MGTOW but at least its consistent with not feeding the beast. WGTOW is impossible because parasites cannot live without the host. I adore women, but economically and logistically they are parasites. The only… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
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Good Luck Chuck
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I know longer think that women are about marriage and hard monogamy. They are truly about hypergamy. This is one of the biggest lies ever perpetrated on men. That women are the ones who want commitment, faithfulness and monogamy. It seems to me that possibly more men are more distraught over the state of marriage and monogamy than women. Of course they are. They get to have their cake and eat it too. Bang it out with a couple dozen dudes in their 20’s before they hit their 30’s and “mature” enough to allow the guys they wouldn’t give the… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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I gave away the last of my daughter’s baby clothes today. Its taken me over a year to part with them all because there was always the hope/thought that there might be more children. But, I don’t have much inducement to marry as I’m not that interested in taking on someone else’s “baggage.” I found myself laughing when I realized what a great catch I should be to an older man. I have a fairly secure job and good health insurance. If a man without health insurance married me, he’d have a very comfortable last twenty years of his life!… Read more »

Rol
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Rol
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I’m beginning to think this is all occuring because of modern technology (agriculture, industry, etc.).

It created a vacuum that needed filling.

Our lives became too easy, Nature doesn’t like easy.

People don’t cooperate simply because of some moral belief system. The belief system itself arose to facilitate survival. Women are going to be a constant pressure for men to adapt since we’ve overcome our natural environment.

As much as things change they stay the same.

YaReally
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@biff

” I found most American women to be hopeless, so I turned my attention elsewhere.”

“–and I deal with the fact that my wife thinks BJs are disgusting–I”m actually OK with that).”

lol’ed.

How would it make you feel to know that your wife would happily give head to a guy with high enough value to her?

Ton
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Ton
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“This is about power and the will to power” MM 100% balls on accurate. Same for your statement that we win collectively when 100,000 individual men win This society is not worth the sacrifice of a single “beta” male. To get me to consider remarrying She/ her family has to pay the husband a large sum of money as a surety to her good behavior and to offset the added expense of having a wife (say 3X my yearly salary in cash. ) No legal obligation for her previous lack of responsibility in any form legally remove a husbands responsibly… Read more »

Jeremy
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@biff One of the tenets of the manosphere is that in the long run the feminist system hurts women. No, that is not correct. It’s not correct because you need to define what “feminist system” is. A belief in the manosphere as I understand it is that hypergamy with no counteracting force is harmful to women because it destroys the dating market as women suffer dating market value inflation. This is very different, and clearer, than your claim there. …If the result is better than the current feminist miasma it’s still an improvement. Feminism lies about its purpose. As a… Read more »

Jeremy
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bwahaha… I just saw this on the captains site and had to share..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N3qtpdSQox0

So… there you have it, children are part of a community over which men have all responsibility and limited control. And forget about them being your children, no, they belong to the community. But keep paying those taxes/alimony!

INTJ
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I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with the “Build a Better Beta” concept. Game can be used to make marriage worthy betas more attractive to women, and that would be a good thing for both sexes. The problem is when anything that isn’t “build a better beta” is criticized because of feminine imperative. Susan’s ideal SMP is one where women are able to “sample” different men through serial monogamy (which usually includes learning experiences with hot but not very nice douchebags), while getting Ivy League degrees and advancing their high powered careers. Eventually in their late 20s before… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
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Good Luck Chuck
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Another blogger named Sock asked Susan if she felt that civil rights activists should have had to “change their message” back in the day, and she responded the same way she responded to me by implying that he receives threats because his massage might be hate speech. He responded with a laundry list of things he has said that got him threatened and cost him friends, and all she could say is “Ohmygoodness! I can’t imagine who would possibly threaten you for saying that. Is it men or women? Who are you hanging out with?” You gotta be pretty dense… Read more »

Mark Minter
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So Rollo, I was reading more on that Veritas Lounge blog and found this old gem, the Tomassi definition of the Feminine Imperative. “Everything a man experiences, every social conditioning he receives from the earliest age, every accepted social norm and every expectation of him to qualify as the definition of a mature adult Man in contemporary society is designed to serve the female imperative. Moralist wallow in it, absolutists and defeated white knights existentially depend upon it, and even the better part of relativists still (often unwittingly) feed and serve the feminine purpose. In fact, so all encompassing is… Read more »

The Other Jim
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“The problem intrinsic to all of that is that masculinity is now so ridiculed and delegitimized in our feminine-centric reality that any (lame) attempts at subterfuge only make the manosphere look even more like the boys club in the treehouse shooting spitwads at the “mature” girls below.” See, gems like this are some of the many reasons why I visit blogs like Rollo, Dalrock, Chateau Heartiste, etc.- that the people at these blogs are able to better articulate than I could much of what I’ve seen, thought, and experienced with women. Just brilliantly fantastic stuff. It also helps articulate something… Read more »

Mark Minter
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The best definition I heard of this was from a RadFem blog, Cherry Blossoms. (Yes, not one of them had a photo for an avatar in comments. The owner of the blog is extremely fucking ugly. I’m the sure whole crowd was real special). Anyway she had a post about a restaurant that wouldn’t allow this support group of transsexuals to meet in the back room of his restaurant anymore. It seems they were going in the women’s bathroom and pissing all over the seats. So the actual female patrons were raising hell. And so I guess RadFems get even… Read more »

The Other Jim
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“but creeps that also want to be the object of desire.”

Thanks for mentioning that. That seems to be another perceived benefit of the Fem-centric Reality & Society that these males want to embrace; the narcissistic Fem-Centric need to the focus of attention, especially from males.

Ton
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Ton
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The inherent flaw with build a better beta is… the idea does not give value to the man as a sovereign individual but only adds value to him as his value to a woman increases. It’s about building HER kind of better man, and not building himself into HIS concept of better man.

Kate
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Kate
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@Rol: Exactly. When life is too easy, we make up problems.

@Ton: You summed it up pretty well there ^. Where do you think the idea of what a “better man” consists of breaks down along gender lines?

BC
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BC
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@Ton: What’s the use of a slave bettering himself for himself instead of for his master? The farmerette doesn’t need the ox to learn how to jump fences; she needs it to pull the plow. The inherent flaw of which you speak (and I agree) is a flaw only from the man’s perspective. From the viewpoint of the Female Imperative, it’s a feature.

Different T
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Different T
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“Game can be used to make marriage worthy betas more attractive to women, and that would be a good thing for both sexes.”

Why? Specifically, fulfilling which female desires would be a “good thing?”

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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@Mark Minter And so I guess RadFems get even more pissed off about men pissing on the toilet seats then typical women, so they fucking despise t-girls. RadFems hate T-girls because T-girls are removing themselves from the influence of the feminine imperative and switching teams. To them, it’s like watching players from the team you’re routing on the field suddenly run across the field, switch jerseys in the process, and be forced to cheer on these new recruits as if they were part of you all along. The radfems are essentially being asked to essentially call these t-girls beautiful or… Read more »

Adam
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Adam
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I think radfems are just mad that even men can turn into better women than they are.

Rollo Tomassi
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“but creeps that also want to be the object of desire.” Hmmm, sounds a lot like competition anxiety and/or dread if you ask me. Women get the men they deserve, and since 1966, literally and figuratively, by order of degree that’s made men who are better women than women. TS’s are the perfect storm – better looking, more in tune with the male sex response and more willing to embrace it for the sake of embracing it and not resource transferral, competition anxiety, slut shaming, indignation, female objectification, ridicule through imitation, dread of feminine incompetence, shall I go on? And… Read more »

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The Other Jim
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The Other Jim
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Rollo, when you explain it in those terms, I have to admit, it is a brilliant strategy. Utterly ruthless but crystalline in its logic. More ‘Woman’ than ‘Woman’…

Jeff Thomas (@hey_wilber)
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Ok… MTF TS’s have an advantage over this guy/gal? I think that they would?

Buck Angel – “The Man With a Pussy”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Angel
“It was in his therapy that he admitted, for the first time, that he felt like a man.”

How the fuck would she know what it felt to be a man?

Senior Beta
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Senior Beta
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Did not expect the comments on this thread to top the last one but they did. I am in agreement with Biff that HUS does her best for team Gal and does recognize the harm feminism and the cock carosel does to women. She only crosses the line occasionally like last week dissing 3MM George for not coming out of the shadows. Usual Minter wisdom. But any comments that have Krauser going all Ayn Rand is special.

Good Luck Chuck
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Good Luck Chuck
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If girls get that same feeling when the beta comes than I can understand why they blow men out. That reminds me. There have been three times in my life that I have made the “mistake” of having sex with women who fall below my threshold of attractiveness, and in each and every case I couldn’t wait to get as far away from them as I possibly could after the deed was done. It was a completely unconscious response. I actually felt “dirty” for having subjected myself to that. And none of them were total beasts- they were probably in… Read more »

Johnycomelately
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Johnycomelately
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Other Jim
Top post, insightful observations.

FreeNortherner has a post on the Madonna/Whore complex:

https://freenortherner.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/the-two-male-sexual-appetites/

“Hot elicits a purely consumptive sexual desire. Cute is the type of attractiveness that elicits the protective desire.”

I think Transexuals play the whore card more extrovertly than women (they don’t have a protective desire, they’re men after all) and women find it threatening.

I’d love to know why the lady boy phenomenon is so prevalent in Patriarchal societies (Thailand, Philippines, Turkey etc).

Ton
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Ton
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Thank you kindly Kate. Were’ s the break down?…BC has it right, the female imperative gets in the way. Much of what a woman calls masculine improvement is nothing like making a man more masculine, or a better version of himself. Typically a woman wants a man to improve in ways that benefit her, regardless if it will benefit him, or those around him, or if the change is a net positive or worth the overall effort. And often those bit of self improvement are illusions. One of my key tenets in dealing with women is y’all cannot tell the… Read more »

The Last Man
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The Last Man
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How can you complain about building a better beta? Much of game is about building a better beta. Training a beta to jump through the necessary hoops to pretend to be an alpha, in order to accommodate insane, destructive female preferences. Skill at game does not make a beta into an alpha. It just makes him a trained animal, skilled at mimicry. The only way to make a beta into an alpha is to give him structural alpha. That requires reasserting control over our women at a societal level. Until then, it is either PUA (assuming it remains underground and… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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@Ton: Thanks for the reply!

This interested me very much: “I’ve only had one woman want to help me improve in an area I wanted to become better in.” I’m really curious what this area was. I’ve encouraged men in artistic, business, educational, and fitness goals, none of which did I ever expect to benefit from directly. I just wanted to be supportive of what they were interested in. While some I suppose could have been unconsciously ulterior, they were mostly altruistic motives.

INTJ
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INTJ
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@ Different T

Why? Specifically, fulfilling which female desires would be a “good thing?”

The ones that will get the betas laid, obviously.., For example, if a beta learns to fulfill the female desire for dominance, he and the female are both better off.

Ton
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Ton
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Your welcome Kate.

She knew a lot about nutrition and helped me eat better to drop a weight class and maintain my strength. She also decided to start fucking other men in the 1st 30 days of a deployment so we’re no longer close.

Kate
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Kate
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Oh dear sad

Rol
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Rol
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@Kate: [blockquote}@Rol: Exactly. When life is too easy, we make up problems.[/blockquote} Well, rather than “make up problems,” I think we inevitably encounter problems because we’ve eliminated activities that were crucial to survival for hundreds of thousands of years. Women are said to be amoral, I believe this is true for the most part and necessary. They provide a unique set of checks and balances to the male gender, but of course it’s a very unpleasant thing right now because we’ve never been in this position before. Game is required to balance these “tests” because our natural environment is no… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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Yes, we think we’ve improved things when whether we are or not is debatable. Each change brings a host of new issues with problems to be solved. Its like medication that will cure you with a hundred side effects.

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[…] the efforts of certain women bloggers and psychologists (both within and without the manosphere) to build better betas seems ennobling to white knights, the unifying purpose behind their efforts is really one of […]

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[…] Rollo Tomassi, “Build A Better Beta” […]

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[…] is the problem.  There is a stark difference between “building a better beta” and stepping back and letting a man be his own man.  Building a better beta involves […]

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[…] is the problem.  There is a stark difference between “building a better beta” and stepping back and letting a man be his own man.  Building a better beta involves […]

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[…] ignorance she fails to understand that she and many “Red Pill Women” before her all want a better Beta. They want a Beta with a side of Alpha – in essence a better slave; one that’s just […]

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