There is an interesting subset of men that has evolved in our feminized social environment over the past 60+ years. I can’t quite refer to them as Betas since that seems too broad, and though Roissy’s initial coining of the term “Herb” (as in ‘herbivorous’) seems useful, these ‘men’ are something belonging to that set, but actively embracing and advocating for the feminine imperative. “Vichy Males” is probably a good starting point; men who are so invested in the conditioning of the feminine imperative that, unaware of how it affects their own interests as men, actively collaborate with and promote the feminine imperative’s social reengineering of masculinity.
These ‘men’ are not the oblivious blue-pill guys that the manosphere takes efforts to unplug from the feminine Matrix. They are the advocates of gender realignment, the male feminists, the men whose perspective it is that a more “equal” society is one in which masculinity is redefined to better convenience the feminine imperative. These are the ‘men’ who emphatically define “healthy masculinity” in a feminine framework where the results of testosterone and all of the innate traits that make one male are character flaws that disturb a feminine defined ‘equality’.
For the better part, Vichy Males are more or less oblivious to the feminine imperative that’s conditioned them. Whether this is a willful denial or simple indifferent ignorance is debatable, but in either case these men take the identification schema of Beta Game to the logical extreme. In some instances I’m certain the most successful amongst them make a livable wage from their dependent feminist evangelism (the feminine imperative rewards only the most Alpha-like crusaders who tow the feminist line), but for most, their advocacy is really an extreme form of identification-for-intimacy Game. In a world of White Knights, to seem unique requires a greater devotion to the feminine imperative.
I had originally intended to use The Frisky’s most recent ‘feminizing boys’ article as my example for today’s post. It certainly raised the hackles of a few commenters from yesterday’s Chauvinism post, but unfortunately it’s too easy a target – it’s an incomplete beginning that doesn’t show the inevitable result of the feminization of boys. Women are encouraged to teach boys to be more like girls, teach them to pee sitting down, embrace their emotionality, cry on demand, and basically act less like little boys have an innate knack for, etc., but this is only half the picture. Those boys grow up into the gender-confused feminized men women later despise.
For the other half of the picture I present to you the most recent gender-fare from (once again) The Atlantic – The End of Violent, Simplistic, Macho Masculinity. Kudos to The Atlantic for its gender neutrality in allowing a Vichy Male like Thomas Page McBee to join the ranks of Kate Bollick, Hannah Rosin and Sandra Tsing Loh for their monthly serving of feminist triumphalism. McBee and his male-apologist sympathizers are the end result of “teaching boys to be feminists.”
While McBee is barking up the Hugo Schwyzer tree, this article reads like an exposé into the mental reasoning of a fully feminized Vichy Male. It’s more or less what I’ve come to expect from masculine apologists but I thought I would highlight the parts of it that give us an insight into the conditioning of the feminine imperative.
From the opening sentence we get an overview of how the Vichy Male’s perspective aligns with his feminine assimilation.
Boys aren’t supposed to do a lot of things: show fear or pain, compassion or tenderness; but of course men feel a full range of emotions, whether we’re “supposed to” or not.
There’s never a question about the dynamic of boy’s / men’s expectations of restraining their emotionality. The main presumption that the feminine imperative indoctrinates in its adherents is that gender is a social construct, and as such the “supposed to” aspect of this assertion is really a presumed societal expectation. Not even an afterthought is given to the idea that perhaps men aren’t wired for emotions in the same way as women. This of course might give pause to the idea of a blank-slate people-are-people equalism so the imperative conditions those questions away from any critical analysis.
However, even if this were the case, and gender was a social construct, might there have been a good reason that boys were taught in the past to suppress their emotionality and rely more on rationalism and determination to endure pain? Perhaps it led to better, more pragmatic decision making? Again, these are question the imperative can’t afford to have concrete answers for.
The other is more personal. I know that if you are a man, you’re reading this with awareness or resistance, that how you interpret these men says a lot about the type of man you are. It’s easy to pretend to be objective, to describe a movement as if I’m not invested in its outcome, but as I researched this story I realized that I couldn’t tell the truth without exposing all of it: healthy masculinity as a sea-change, and why I want my own counter-narrative to be part of the turning tide.
Here we have a man parroting the standard male-shaming the feminine imperative conditions into women. The circular argument goes like this; if you’re a Man with a different interpretation of masculinity and this redefinition offends you it’s because you are insecure in your masculinity. This is a standard trope feminism has bred into the past 4 generation of men and women – “if you don’t agree with the feminized interpretation of masculinity it’s due to your insecurity in your own masculinity.” Ergo, you’re less of a man for disavowing the interpretation. And this interpretation of ‘healthy masculinity’ is one which more perfectly aligns with, and doesn’t inconvenience, the feminine imperative.
He points to data: Generation Y men do more housework and are more involved fathers than any generation in American history. They also have more cross-sex friendships, which Kimmel suggests means that young men see women increasingly as true peers—equals—in life and work.
Again, more feminine-centric presumptions about male intent. Nowhere is there a consideration given towards motive or the socio-economic variables that may have led to these data.
He lists some of the words the men at the summit used to describe healthy masculinity: nurturing, kind, positive, good, caring, courage, confident, inclusive, courageous, honest, accountability, and respect. Not your father’s Marlboro man—but maybe closer to the reality of your father. Which is the point. “We have an exercise we do where we ask men and boys to name the strongest man in their life and then talk about what it is that makes him strong,” McGann says. “Most of the time, it’s their father or a counselor or a minister, and the ways in which they care for them. Or it might be about integrity, or it might be about their willingness to stand up for what they believe in, their compassion, all those kind of qualities—which are much more qualities of character. Those are always the things that we’ve associated with healthy masculinity.”
Here we see the feminine imperative evident in the qualities that should make for a “healthy masculinity.” Dropping a few of the more subjective qualities on this list, you could easily describe women having a “healthy femininity” with these characteristics. The aspersion of the ‘Marlboro Man’ is simply one more caricature of masculinity that’s been a go-to derision of the feminine imperative for decades.
The main problem with the Vichy Male characterization of a new “healthy masculinity” is that their comparative definition of ‘traditional masculinity’ has been so distorted by the feminine imperative over the past 60 years that it’s become a straw man parody that’s easily knocked down. The former “masculinity” they oppose is the ridiculous, beer swilling, fart joke, boob mesmerized, borderline abusive masculinity that’s been reinforced in pop-culture courtesy of feminization. A masculinity that requires a uniquely feminine correction is the mental image these men cling to while establishing themselves as the perfected, new and feminized version of masculinity. In other words, masculinity can only be positive in a feminine defined social framework.
The toxic narratives of unhealthy masculinity are often unquestioned, and they start very young. “There are no four more depressing words in educational policy circles then ‘boys will be boys,’ ” Kimmel says. “Because when do we say that? We say that when we throw up our hands in resignation that we can’t do anything. Why don’t we say ‘boys will be boys’ when a man wins the Noble Peace Prize?
Because doing so would give unique credit to masculinity as being the source of a man’s ability to achieve a Nobel Peace Prize through sheer determination – and that’s a credit the ‘equalist’ agenda can’t afford to have men think about. Boys will be boys and truly, despite the feminized bleating, women wouldn’t want it any other way. Boys will take risks, boys will injure themselves, boys will leave the security of the safe side of the sidewalk their mothers forbid them to leave, because that’s what boys do.
Compassion might be a place to start, for yourself and others. “Trying to hold men accountable connects to unhealthy masculinity,” McGann says. “I’ve said for years that one of the things about unhealthy masculinity, or dominant stories of masculinity, is that men are socialized to push past pain, ignore pain, like it doesn’t harm you in any kind of way, you’re not vulnerable. If you can’t really recognize and experience your own pain, then how can you do it with anybody else?”
Men push past pain for good reason – it is the key to growth into a healthy maturity. Men push past pain, not just a social expectation from other men, but because of the same expectations from women. It’s by necessity, not social pressure.Very few men fail to recognize their own pain, but a feminine mindset determined to vilify masculinity would rather we believe that not expressing that pain is always a net negative. The irony this mindset is oblivious of is that at the first mention of a man’s pain, at the first expression of his own self-concern he is accused of bitterness. “You must’ve been really burned to think what you think.” This is the root of the Male Catch 22.
Like a lot of guys, I had a shitty dad. He was uneasy in himself, abusive, shut down. Being a guy to me seemed located in his hamstrung emotions, his uncomfortable displays of drunken vulnerability. I remember him singing Frank Sinatra in this mournful voice, how I pitied and hated him, how I never wanted to become him.
“No Luke, I am your Father.”
“That’s not true!,….THAT”S IMPOSSIBLE!!”
I suppose I should mention here that virtually all Vichy Males are Promise Keeper.
Whether or not men know the phrase “healthy masculinity,” signs of changes are blooming everywhere. I think about Kimmel, who says the roots of the shifting gender roles are a movement away from rigidity. Feminism allowed women to unlock the parts of themselves society kept from them, and now men are doing the same. He posits that a cure for what ails us that sounds familiar to me, the work I’ve done to become my own man embodied: “I don’t see us as becoming a more masculine culture or a more feminine culture, I see us becoming a more balanced culture,” he says. Look at the last election: men helped vote women into power all over the country, including a transgender woman in New Hampshire.
Mark Minter, paging Mark Minter, please report to the comments section, thank you. One element I find interesting in feminist men is a desire to experience the same so-called liberation from a masculine gender role assignment that feminist women claim to have. It’s as if the feminine identification isn’t complete unless they can tap into that same gender straightjacket indignation release women do – they can’t be ‘equals’ unless they suffer a similar (albeit self-constructed) gender role release. This is the level of conviction Vichy Males strive for.
One part I do agree with though, “Feminism allowed women to unlock the parts of themselves society kept from them, and now men are doing the same.” The tragic irony of women’s innate Hypergamy’s unfettered release on men is entirely lost on McBee. And yes, Men, Alpha Men, are now released from the same previous constrictions.
Men are embracing a more nurturing fatherhood with zeal, from Michael Chabon to the super-engaged, former stay-at-home dad Chris on Up All Night. And Modern Family‘s dinosaur patriarch, Jay, is as old-school as they come, especially next to his touchy-feely son-in-law, Phil. In a reversal of past tropes, however, Jay’s blundering inability to connect to his feelings makes him the joke to be tolerated and Phil’s the man of the moment. More techy than macho, he’s thoroughly nonplussed when he realizes he’s on a gay date just as he’s being kissed.
As I stated above, the only model for masculinity these ‘new men’ have for comparative purposes are the distorted archetypes of masculinity that a feminized pop-culture and media has characterized for them, and here we have the perfect example of this. When all you’ve ever had representative of a masculine archetype has been ridiculous cartoon characters of men, it’s not such a daunting task to “be a better man” than them. In fact, the episode McBee describes here not only props up a “dinosaur patriarch” archetype, but also knocks him down with a character he identifies with in being the ‘new’ definition of masculinity. Yay, for team ‘new man’!
You can read the article in its entirety if you have the stomach, but it essentially ends on the same note as my last highlight here.
Our popular conscious perspective of masculinity has been remolded by the feminine imperative and fed back to the likes of Vichy Males like McBee here. I wish I could say he was an outlier, but he’s not. He’s one more crab in the barrel pulling frustrated, confused and conflicted men back down into feminization. Maybe unwittingly, maybe as a form of Beta Game, but men endorsing and evangelizing the feminine imperative are the most effective ambassadors of the imperative. It’s men, and particularly ones other men respect, who make the best tools for feminization – in fact men’s participation is an integral part of the imperative’s effectiveness in social engineering.
One aspect of McBee’s misgivings I do agree with is the need for a Positive Masculinity. A masculinity not predicated on the social interests of the feminine imperative. One defined by uniquely male standards that embrace our natural capacities for focused agression, that accepts rather than derides the effects of testosterone as a constructive (and yes, destructive) part of our natures. We need a masculinity that recognizes women’s innate arousal and attraction to it as something that sets men apart by its difference from women, not one that attempts to homogenize and androgynize it to be more palatable to women. A masculinity that is respected for being the predominant driving force in what our species has become as a result of it. A masculinity that is unapologetically dominant and beneficent.
We don’t need men to get in touch with their feminine sides, feminization has reinforced this for far too long. Masculinity isn’t about ‘men behaving badly’ in a feminine context, nor is it about parodies of men rediscovering “manly pursuits” pre-manufactured by what the feminine imperative laughs at men for.
Masculinity is about Boys being Boys, and Men being Men.
As you noted near the beginning of the post, all of this is predicated upon gender being a ‘social construct’, which is so stupid it’s not even worth active dismissal. See: biological and behavioral differences between males and females of all species on Earth. I’m surprised any guys at all buy into this (do they?).
I don’t even think leftist push that as a fact that strongly. It look rather to be a declaration of faith in maleability of human being: the most fundamental premise of the social constructionist. It allows to separate “us” from “them”.
Fantastic post, Rollo.
Yo Rollo this is the second time that you’ve recently spoken about the need for many feminized/beta men to not end up like their father. If you really want to understand the Beta/”Mr. Nice Guy” mindset further then I suggest you read “No More Mr. Nice Guy” by Dr. Robert Glover. It goes into detail why the beta/nice guy crowed operates the way that it does. Considering you’re into psychology; this may be illuminating for you. One of the common traits of that crowd is a desire to not end up like their father. Interesting. Here is the PDF link… Read more »
Heh…funny you post this. I watched this classic last night.
“Nice Guys repress their feelings. Nice Guys tend to analyze rather than feel. They may see feelings as a waste of time and energy. They frequently try to keep their feelings on an even keel.” Interesting how we’re always told to be in touch with our feelings, yet so many nice guys end up this way. To the Vichy’s, it’s all about WHICH feelings you’re in touch with. Crying because the horse dies in a movie is fine, but if you feel like smacking that bitch because she WON’T SHUT THE FUCK UP, then “getting in touch with your feelings”… Read more »
Red headed kid went way too far with his left hook and got caught with the counter uppercut.
Just wanted to point out since you’ve made this mistake a few times. Who’s = who is. “Whose” is the possessive form which you’re looking for.
It’s amazing how McBee choses to see the characters on Modern Family. I see Jay as the strong, capable guy that everyone knows will handle things and let’s not forget his HOT, YOUNG WIFE! Phil represents everything I hate about the portrayal of men (I use the term loosely) on TV and in the movies. My wife loathes Phil and reminds me weekly that in reality no attractive woman with other choices would marry a boob like him. Jay? She digs Jay…
And the lady Phil is married too reminds me of who to avoid.
How does the feminine imperative reconcile with the fact women hate feminized men? Why would the feminine imperative create the very thing they despise?
Is it a giant societal shit test, nurturing gone mad, solipsism projected on a mass level, the fear of their own desires….?
“One aspect of McBee’s misgivings I do agree with is the need for a Positive Masculinity. A masculinity not predicated on the social interests of the feminine imperative. One defined by uniquely male standards that embrace our natural capacities for focused agression, that accepts rather than derides the effects of testosterone as a constructive (and yes, destructive) part of our natures. We need a masculinity that recognizes women’s innate arousal and attraction to it as something that sets men apart by its difference from women, not one that attempts to homogenize and androgynize it to be more palatable to women.… Read more »
How does the feminine imperative reconcile with the fact women hate feminized men? Why would the feminine imperative create the very thing they despise? They don’t reconcile with it because they can’t see it. They can see feminized men and know they dislike them, but they can’t see how the two are interrelated. They watch chick flicks and the nice guys *mans up” at the end and their then attractive. They honestly believe that some nice girl will fall madly in love with the nice guy, they just can’t be the one. The dork from Zombie Land deserves the girl… Read more »
“How does the feminine imperative reconcile with the fact women hate feminized men? Why would the feminine imperative create the very thing they despise?”
Women aren’t logical. Men’s biggest failure was taking what women said as gospel…instead of looking at their action.
Johnnycomelately: That’s why I’m not hooked up on whether or not we promote the feminine imperative. We promote the masculine imperative, and a nice side effect of that is that women like it, too. Revo: It’s not just that the feminine imperative has “been shot through with feminist toxin”, it’s the same thing. Rousseau, the great-grandfather of leftism, explicitly hoped to push the feminine imperative (hated fatherhood, etc.). There’s a reason that every leftist movement from the Progressives of 100 years ago to Soviet Russia to Mao’s China has actively promoted “equality” between the sexes. Lefty economics (sharing, merit is… Read more »
I love reading Rollo break this stuff down. It’s especially important for young men still unplugging.
At some point though, we (the readership, not Rollo) need to start taking the Jack Donovan approach. He responds to Jezebel, Gawker, Feministing, The Atlantic, and Slate in one fatal swoop.
Yes I know how “nice guys” hide their feelings the wrong way as per NMMNG. But all men keep the emotions under wraps, not just nice guys. That IS part of the masculine imperative – a good part. It’s not that we don’t have the emotions, but we are smart enough to know NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THEM. No man, nobody, hell not even me. Someone gets all weepy on me I step away slowly. I expect they would to the same to me if I did a John Boehner myself. It’s only OK if you’re in a small… Read more »
“It’s not that we don’t have the emotions, but we are smart enough to know NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THEM”
I disagree. Men don’t show their emotions for the same reason that they don’t emote during a poker game, they don’t want to tip their hand to competitors.
I certainly would love to see the emotions of a competitor so I now know his position and his weaknesses.
Men don’t emote in public so they don’t show weakness.
Women don’t “hate” feminized men. The average ones are irrelevant to women, while the “cool” ones are like girlfriends with more resources and less drama. It’s only the “could be alpha” ones that would cause some frustration and resentment, but I wouldn’t say it goes as far as hate.
Martel, The feminine imperative is NOT the same thing as feminism. This is a category error. The feminine imperative is simply a female reproductive strategy. In most of the non-anglosphere world, the feminine imperative was simply to be feminine. In fact a very strong argument can be made that a deep and true feminine expression is the strongest possible manifestion of the feminine imperative, since it’s their natural power base. We masculinists must inspire and reward true femininity. This goes hand in hand with acceptance (but not simple acquiessence) of hypergamy. Hypergamy is the female state of nature, and it’s… Read more »
I think the connection between masculinity and aggression is the thing feminists are most afraid of, hence all the effort dedicated to smothering the testosterone out of boys. Raised serum T increases aggression and risk-taking, as surely as the sun rises in the East. Of course, for most men, that aggression was never directed at women. The then-prevailing social contract channeled the pent-up sex drive of both sexes to create a stable society. Unfortunately, as I’m sure Mark Minter will note, that ship sailed a long time ago. As an antidote to the caricatures of masculinity inundating our culture, I… Read more »
Ahem. Must’ve forgotten to finish typing.
It’s a shame that many of these books are no longer taught in school. Instead, you get Things Fall Apart, which, as far as I can remember, was four hundred pages about colonialist yams.
“All Quiet…” is completely, utterly, and pointlessly depressing. An incredibly prescient book, however, is “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.”. It’s the perfect metaphor for what our society is doing to men. The movie’s good but it cuts out all the edgy stuff like Billy’s relationship with his mom and the descriptions of the nurse’s sadism. Rollo calls it the Matrix in that its a false world we’ve bought into. Kesey calls it The Combine, an active, malevolent force beating us into submission, forcing our masculine efforts into the feminine whole. Revo, I agree with you; I mistyped. Replace my… Read more »
Just a ding dang minute!
Your Atlantic correspondent,Thomas Page McBee is a TRANSSEXUAL. Who I gather has had the snip, tuck and crazy glue. On this side of his man he is a woman.
NOW his article makes sense. He is trying to use his woman brain to explicate what he thinks is his maleness. He can only be starting to get what that even IS. Which may assuage the Vichy Males, but he’s so new at this game he;s still chanting “Got one, got one, everybody’s got one…”
Collaborators. Or Useful Idiots. Either way.
Thank you Mr. Flange. I was expecting an update at the end of Rollo’s post or at the very least a comment highlighting for this extremely important fact.
“A masculinity that is respected for being the predominant driving force in what our species has become as a result of it.”
What our species has become is not entirely positive. As long as you are willing to take credit for the bad as well as the good, go on witchu bad self, homie.
“At some point though, we (the readership, not Rollo) need to start taking the Jack Donovan approach. He responds to Jezebel, Gawker, Feministing, The Atlantic, and Slate in one fatal swoop.”
Yeh, and our Mr. Donovan has taken the “masculine imperative” to a whole new level, if you know what I mean. Ahem, cough, ahem, wink, nudge, ahem, cough, wink.
I think one of the fundamental failings with modern feminism, or maybe I should call it pop feminism, is this push for men and women to be “equal” when men and women are not. Its a biological and psychological fact. We are as different as well.. adam and eve. What this group of feminist fail to realize is their fight should be for equal “rights”, not equality. Should a women be able to enlist in the infantry.. sure… if she can perform at the same level as a man in said units. Should a women make the same pay as… Read more »
The moment when men start showing their feelings will be right after the moment when women evolve to appreciate those feelings, or anything else for that matter. What is it with guys telling all around the manosphere not to express their feelings? Well, Hopeless Romantic, it is easy to explain/repeat. There are many posts, threads, stories, etc of guys who noticed how their lady began losing interest once they opened their mouth about the feelings. They just lose interest, the mystery is gone, the chase is gone, the dread is gone. If you are a man, you probably did it.… Read more »
Charles, “I think one of the fundamental failings with modern feminism, or maybe I should call it pop feminism, is this push for men and women to be “equal” when men and women are not. Its a biological and psychological fact. We are as different as well.. adam and eve. What this group of feminist fail to realize is their fight should be for equal “rights”, not equality.” You’re confusing equality with sameness. Equality means equal legal rights, not that any two people become exactly the same, which is impossible. ” There are many posts, threads, stories, etc of guys… Read more »
In some people’s minds you can’t have masculinity without femininity. The idea that men can build the image of what a man is without the involvement of feminist/femininity is crazy to them.
@Hopeless Romantic You’re confusing equality with sameness. Equality means equal legal rights, not that any two people become exactly the same, which is impossible. He’s not confusing anything. Sameness is exactly what feminist equality is all about. Not in the sense that “two people are exactly the same” (which is not what was being suggested anyway) but more in the sense that men and women are supposedly “the same” apart from their reproductive plumbing, and that any apparent differences are as a result of cultural influence and upbringing. That’s what feminists mean by the term “gender is a social construct”.… Read more »
Yes, I was going to reference Jack Donovan too, specifically “The Way of Men”, which has a great dissection on why society has pressured men to act in a traditionally masculine way, and which also suggests that men alone need to decide on the definition of masculinity.
Great post, and I love the term Vichy Males! 😉
“The only men who I want to hear about their “feeeeeewings” from is men whom I’m personally attracted to, interested and in a relationship with.”
Really…because when I told my feeeeeeeeewings to gals who were attracted to, interested, and in a relationship with me…it was about a month later that they dumped me. Even in my blue pill days when I let loose my feelings I could see something in their face and eyes that didn’t look good.
Anybody remember D-FENS from “Falling Down”? Watched it last night for the first time post pill. No other movie makes the case better against organizes feminism, and should be included in all school men’s studies classes. Wait, there aren’t any men’s studies classes.
This is semi-old news, but it’s somewhat on topic:
As bad as it’s getting, here, thank God we’re not in Sweden.
Vichy Males = Manboobz
Rollo, have you read The Way of Men by Jack Donovan?
I will probably have more commentary on the article after I get a chance to read it all the way. Looks like it is going to be a good ‘un!
Am I the only one that picked up on the techie being on a date and being “nonplussed” when realizing it was a gay date and he was getting gay kissed? what a fag!! does it get any more beta than that? I’ve got nothing against gay people as they were born that way. but i just picture some michael stipe looking brooklyn hipster getting another dude’s tongue down his throat and being ok with it, because a real man is in touch with his fem side. i am now at a loss for words…
On a side note – I really want to seem some manosphere gear available for the red pill man. Names of blogs, symbolic red pills, axioms, quotes, etc. I think it’s high time we start sending out beacons to other men so that we can recognize fellow travellers who have unplugged from “The Matrix”. They can also serve as conversation starters with fellow men who need unplugging. It’s also time for a book Rollo. [Probably Q1 of 2013 at this stage, stay tuned.] We need some sort of consice travel compendium that covers the major themes of this and other… Read more »
Its scary how an entire sex is demonized for how it naturally is.
“Its scary how an entire sex is demonized for how it naturally is.”
Yeah. Woman Haters do the same thing. Hating hypergamy resenting Game complaining about the downfall of beta, etc. Same.
“[Probably Q1 of 2013 at this stage, stay tuned.]”
@3alpha Re: The movie, Falling Down. You’ve piqued my interest. Now I MUST watch that movie. I own a copy but have not yet gotten around to watching it.
Maybe your best entry yet. And you’re inspiring me to start a game blog.
I agree the term ‘beta’ or ‘blue-pill’ isn’t sufficiently descriptive for guys like McBee.
‘Vichy males’ doesn’t roll off the tongue, really, but it does capture the cowardice, co-optation and sniveling malevolence of these guys—it’ll do for now.
Well damn, I suppose it is incumbent upon me to recognize that McBee is in fact a tranny. Sorry for my lack of due diligence, but it’s not like the guy(?) made it very evident in the article.
However, I do think that this revelation only further emphasizes the points I made in my post. I could very easily replace McBee’s material with that of fellow Vichy collaborator Hugo Schwyzer (a person born with a penis to the best of my knowledge) and it would still be relevant to my post.
The more I think about it, the more I like the term “Vichy”. The French didn’t just keel over like the limp-wrists they are made out to be. They had no natural advantages (the Atlantic, the Channel, or the Steppes) that could keep the enemy out, they were out fought by some of the best generals of the century with a modern army using innovative techniques. In short, they were outclassed. The Femifascists in our war have not been holding their punches either. They have the panzers of the state to roll over the men through legal means and the… Read more »
More big picture related One wonders if it is merely a coincidence between the feminization of society and the rise of the extroverted ideal (as written about in the book – Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking by Susan Cain) which have run almost in parallel with one another in the last 50-60 years. Once upon a time the quality of a man was judged upon strong character traits generally seen in the way he acts (Cain talks about the quality of past American presidents like Andrew Jackson whom displayed certain traits but may… Read more »
One little droplet of knowledge modern historians neglect to tell us is how pre-eminent the “peace” movement was in Britain and France during the 1930’s. Their nations’ wimpiness was part of what inspired Hitler to become as aggressive as he was. They unwittingly complied in the chaos that ensued by not being men. That’s one reason I’m liking the term “Vichy Male”. Jimmy is also onto something important here. Men are much better judges of character than women, especially when it comes to other men. We’re far more likely to judge each other based on actual competence than just his… Read more »
Holy crap, I could NOT agree with you more. I was introduced to a man named Dean Esmay who found my blog http://www.judgybitch.com and I’m suddenly finding myself in a whole new world of people who think the same way I do!
It’s so fantastic! As the mother of a little son, and the mother of two daughters who will one day grow up and look around for a MAN to marry, I can’t thank you enough for speaking out in favor of boys being boys and men being men.
How to write a Hugo Schwyzer article on any topic:
(1) Define a relationship problem or issue.
(2) Say men fucked it up.
“Falling Down” is flawed but a favorite of mine; the meta-joke of course is every gangsta or asshat thinks they can dump on the crew-cut, bespectacled white-bread Bill Foster a/k/a/ D-FENS, until he pulls out the Uzi. That’s the funny stuff. But the movie is really about “Can’t we all just get along?” It was made in L.A. during the Rodney King riots.
Judgybitch is awesome.
I just read some of your blog.
How do we make more of you?
we have the radio on at work, and today it hit me how pretty much all of the songs played that are about love by men are ‘pining for the one they’ve lost’ type. i cannot listen to these songs in the same way anymore and it annoys me a little bit, its almost no wonder men turn out the way they do if this stuff buries itself into the unconscious from all these covert means that we least expect. television is pretty overt in comparison to this.
Martel is really onto something here (to echo his own words). He wrote: “Men are much better judges of character than women, especially when it comes to other men. We’re far more likely to judge each other based on actual competence than just his ability to master cocky/funny… We don’t say that we respect co-workers who show up on time and then demean them for doing it.” To build on that, I’ve observed that in families, it’s almost always the mothers that favor the screw-ups and the dads who hold their feet to the fire. Extend this to the workplace,… Read more »
@kolo I’ve noticed that too, and the “if you leave I’ll be incomplete” ones. And women singing about the one that got away. Every now and then, you hear a song that slightly touches the mechanics explained by the manosphere. Songs like S.O.S Band’s “Just Be Good To Me” and Faithless’ “Killer’s Lullaby”.
With regard to Martel’s post, this is the essence of why game works (game defined as the mimicking of dominant traits), because in the civilized world you can be irrationally self-confident without consequence. Think you’re tough shit in a time/place that isn’t civilized? You were tested. The only guy walking around as king ding-a-ling is the guy that kicked the shit out of everyone else. In essence, confidence was a by-product of accomplishment, not a precursor. I think alot of rational guys struggle with this for the same reason. They need a tangible reason from which to derive their confidence,… Read more »
Great post, and seems to totally agree with what I’ve been thinking about this, too. When they tell men to get in touch with their feelings, they assume men are just like women inside, or something, and need to whine and cry just as much. Maybe it’s just my impression, but men really don’t have the urge to cry all that often… Men do express anger and bitterness sometimes, but then feminized men and women say it’s “Too scary/ sick/evil/sociopathic, stop it”. Yeah, they want you to “get in touch with your feelings”, but they will selectively listen to only… Read more »
“Rollo, have you read The Way of Men by Jack Donovan?”
If anyone knows about men’s ways, its our ol’ boy Jack. 😉
@kolo &love’s orphan Ever since i unplugged i see it and here it everywhere. it’s like the rowdy roddy piper movie in which he sees the aliens whenever he wears the special sunglasses. if you’ve ever seen Dexter, angel is the biggest white knight beta ever to get squeezed out of a woman’s love canal. betaism is in commercials and movies, written by betas to get women to buy their jolly green giant corn and ask their mans to take them to see the next “forget paris”. i moved to israel 4 years ago and society itself is way more… Read more »
“If anyone knows about men’s ways, its our ol’ boy Jack. ” Have to say, this is exactly the type of bitchy, devoid-of-all-content remark that i’ve come to expect in our screwed up feminist society. Rather than deal with the content of The Way of Men (which is excellent), the attack comes in the form of personal commentary that tries to deflect from the topic at hand. I think most people here would know his personal preferences, and most people who have read The Way of Men would acknowledge that its a damn good book too. “Masculinity is about Boys… Read more »
Glad to know I’ve got an “alpha disorder”.
That makes my procrastination and lack of focus on tasks at hand a lot easier to accept.
@Pete, it’s called ‘intellectual lethargy’, in other words it’s too long ; didn’t read elevated to a psychological schema.
@ nek: “The only guy walking around as king ding-a-ling is the guy that kicked the shit out of everyone else.” Love that line… I think it also calls attention to the fact that, in many ways men don’t have the options to “prove” themselves to other men as they probably did in the past. Or at least not ones that feel particularly satisfying. I doubt being a high-powered lawyer has the status or satisfaction of bludgeoning your enemy.
nek: “Think you’re tough shit in a time/place that isn’t civilized? You were tested. The only guy walking around as king ding-a-ling is the guy that kicked the shit out of everyone else. In essence, confidence was a by-product of accomplishment, not a precursor.” Perfect! We see this phenomenon played out even today in our inner cities. You don’t walk into a club on Chicago’s South Side acting like you’re the shit unless you can back it up. Play like Mystery, cocky but without male support, and you will get your shit destroyed. “In essence, confidence was a by-product of… Read more »
Credit for the final quote in my post actually belongs to Pete.
Do young boys/adolescents even fist fight anymore these days? I’m 34, and growing up, probably got into at least a half dozen fist fights with many of them being childhood neighborhood friends and it was considered normal. My parents would laugh it off and have me call whoever I fought and apologize that evening. I took a good beating and also dished one out here and there. My point is I think every man needs to take an ass kicking every once in awhile as it adds character. I read a couple Hugo Shwyzer articles and he needs to get… Read more »
I know they get in fights, but it’s different now. I knew an awkward, gangly 16 year-old who had been hassled by a bully all through his freshman and sophomore years. One day, as a junior, the bully was shoving him. He turned around and laid him out in one punch.
He was suspended for a week, arrested, and had to do community service. “Zero tolerance” on fighting, you see.
Team-Red, so long as it’s Georges St-Pierre I’d be happy!
“He was suspended for a week, arrested, and had to do community service. “Zero tolerance” on fighting, you see.” The weak in schools are legislated against. The person that needs to be full apeshit and cream the bully will get in trouble that will impact his future. At of these guys are nerdy types that care about college and such and don’t want to have something on his record and all that jazz, so he just takes it having his ego whittled down to nothing. The solution is teach your son to not be weak to begin with. Bullys don’t… Read more »
“The weak in schools are legislated against.”
Kind of like in everythiing else (family law, etc.) Just more evidence that the Matriarchy needs to be overthrown.
Female legality is nonsense. On one hand, be meek, learn to listen to your wife, negotiate with bullies, and be a teambuilder at work. And then when that strategy fails against the bully or your wife, we’ll rip you to shreds.
Two necessary steps: Become an Alpha so as to become a master within the Matrix. Then, together we overturn the Matriarchy so that male reason rules us again instead of female capriciousness.
I understandably realize in-school fighting is not tolerated and punished because of bullying etc., but how about out of school and just growing up amongst friends? I grew up wrestling, playing football & ice hockey, so maybe it was the norm because all my friends did too.
And regarding bullying, I have a funny story where back in the 8th grade I tried to step into a situation where a kid was being bullied and I ended up getting my ass kicked badly. Turned out I got more respect because of it as the guy was huge compared to my size. Him and I actually became friends as well as the kid being bullied. Funny how things work out
Read all these comments, and damn so really good stuff in here. The comments alone are worth reading.
Interesting to see the subject of ADD and ADHD come up earlier in the comments. My youngest son was diagnosed with ADHD. My wife and I agonized over putting him on medication because we are well aware of how boy behaviour is pathologized. It got to the point last year where we were getting notes and emails from his school regarding violence almost every day. It went beyond just boy behaviour. He would get stuck in explosive rages. He lost friends and was very lonely. We tried many things including diet, behaviour modification through reward charting, magnesium supplements, classical music… Read more »
I was diagnosed ADD/ADHD when I was in the 7th grade and i’m 34 years old now. I was continually getting in trouble for causing a ruckus in disrupting classes in school because I was hyperactive. They even purposely gave me first period gym class every single year.
Perhaps get your son involved in sports, it did wonders for me. I excelled at wrestling and ice hockey and it also took alot of aggression out of me.
I’ve hear people talk that men should band together co-operatively and overthrow the femtocracy. Although it makes perfect sense and is the intuitive response, I’m not sure that this is either realistic or constructive. Let’s look at what it is that makes men men. Is it our co-operative nature? Yes, that can be part of it – we work well within organizations, especially hierarchical organizations devoted to a purpose. But one way that we do that is through individual will to personal power. The invisible hand of selfish desire motivates each of us to rise within the organization to our… Read more »
@Team Red RE: “Perhaps get your son involved in sports, it did wonders for me. I excelled at wrestling and ice hockey and it also took alot of aggression out of me.”
Agreed. That’s another of our plans. We just got him into a martial arts school. He’s loving it, and it seems to focus him and calm him down.
More regarding men working individually towards being masculine, and forgetting about any group movements: And if you are a family man – you still have to adapt. You aren’t going to get a social movement going that provides you with all the right conditions in which to plant your seed. Take responsibility and invent your own conditions. Invent your own personal homestead, or plant seeds widely. A social movement is not going to work, so why bother investing mental energy into creating one? Invest your time and attention towards what you can influence. Your environment, through personal power; and your… Read more »
“Now I’ve mentioned before that I believe that there is an instinct among some men to control the groups sexuality, enforcing a socialist distribution of the resource of pussy. ”
Sexual Marxism: from each according to her ability, to each according to his need.
Women on the other hand are sexual venture capitalists.
Its the American way.
Love or leave it!
“Perfect! We see this phenomenon played out even today in our inner cities. You don’t walk into a club on Chicago’s South Side acting like you’re the shit unless you can back it up. Play like Mystery, cocky but without male support, and you will get your shit destroyed.” That’s one of the reasons why your women love Black men. They don’t act “cocky/funny” unless they really are. The whole “confidence” thing – confident about what exactly? First you need something to be confident about before you can actually BE confident. The PUAs call their act “irrational confidence” for a… Read more »
@xsplat Each individual adapting in his best way possible is the men’s movement. We don’t have to overthrow anyone or anything. I agree and identify with all the points you raised. Creating your own independent, self sufficient mobility that allows you to float around the system at your own will is the key to many things, happiness being one of them. The internet is a great tool for assisting in making this far easier to achieve. The style of work that I have created for myself relies totally on my ability to think yet I benefit from others without having… Read more »
I doubt this will be read much because we’ve moved on to the next post, but regardless… I agree that as men we are, and should be, individualistic. We don’t organize well. However, the feminine, conformist, parts of our society do. Economically and culturally, they therefore have the potential to strangle us. If this keeps up, do you really think starting your own business will be a viable option in ten years? What I advocate is something along the lines of what Glenn Reynolds calls “a pack, not a herd.” We unite for common purposes and disband when they are… Read more »
Did anyone notice the writer is a “transitioned” female-to-male?
“I agree that as men we are, and should be, individualistic. We don’t organize well. However, the feminine, conformist, parts of our society do. Economically and culturally, they therefore have the potential to strangle us. If this keeps up, do you really think starting your own business will be a viable option in ten years?” Women comprise over 50% of the new small business owners in the USA. “Individualistic America beat collectivist Germany and Japan because our individual soldiers were far more creative. We made society. We can retake it.” And when exactly was this “individualistic America”? ——————————— SEXUAL MARXISM:… Read more »
I’m a little late to the party here. I don’t feel that I am Vichy Male. My motivation is entirely different in proposing a re-definition of male consciousness. My idea of re-definition of consciousness is more along the lines of men reading Rational Male and eschewing the Female Imperative conditioning that have been given that does not work in their favor. I wish women to get financial advancement and government empowerment so that men can live in manners free of women, that men can get what they really wish from women, mainly to fuck them, and not have to pay… Read more »
“Perfect! We see this phenomenon played out even today in our inner cities. You don’t walk into a club on Chicago’s South Side acting like you’re the shit unless you can back it up. Play like Mystery, cocky but without male support, and you will get your shit destroyed.” That’s one of the reasons why your women love Black men. They don’t act “cocky/funny” unless they really are. The whole “confidence” thing – confident about what exactly? First you need something to be confident about before you can actually BE confident. lol’d at this it’s so true I always laugh… Read more »
Jeff Berg, the white boyz of the Manosphere want to bring about a utopian state of sexual marxism “from each according to her ability, to each according to his need” because they are afraid of competition from the global smorgesboard of exotic men. The days when Hugh Heffner complained about “women thwarting the free love ways of men” are over. Women have completely out competed men in “free love ways” and now they are wishing women would go back to thwarting free love. “Yes, at 54 years of age, I owned a woman that trumped almost every other woman I… Read more »
@Jeff Berg The reason you see black guys swooping women of any race is that black men aren’t taught to be supplicating to women and don’t display weak submissive behavior. However, I don’t see this as really an issue of race but one of social class. If you look at lower class whites, the ones that have some type of social IQ clean up on pussy as well. They don’t buy into the feminist bullshit as much as SWPL crowd. Ask the biker or poor musician if he has low pussy ratio and he would just laugh. Also it’s not… Read more »
Uh, what … sure, there’s a lot of parasitic growth on top of the basic concepts these days, but men organize and cooperate exceedingly well when we feel like it.
(Speaking of that, I wonder how far the femocracy would get if there weren’t dutiful vichy collaborators discreetly fixing the inevitable problems.)
Very good post.
I have such contempt for “Vichy males”.
“Also it’s not black guys in mass that get with hot white women. It’s the savvy ones that are the cream of the crop. They make it out of the ghettos….”
The “mass” of black men are not ghetto. Do you even know any black guys at all?
The belief that Obama owes the Manosphere an assembly line of factory made girlfriends.
“In all, 27.4 percent of blacks were living in poverty.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/13/number-of-americans-livin_n_960345.html I’m sorry, 1/3 of blacks live in poverty. For the blacks that are in the middle class and up. According to wikipedia which I know it’s the absolute best source, but : “27.3% of black households earn an income between $25,000 and $50,000, 15.2% earn between $50,000 and $75,000, 7.6% earn between $75,000 and $100,000, and 9.4% earn more than $100,000.” So roughly, 32.2 percent of black guys can run in the social circles where the good looking fit white women are. I include that number because it’s the… Read more »
“The black men I know that are good with these women are the college educated ones or somewhat similar. I don’t know of any T-Dog macking on White Princess Jesscia.”
Duh. Assortive mating. Humans generally tend to mate with their socio-economic equals as well as within 2 points of each other on the looks scale, and well within 10 years age wise of each other.
‘move bitch, get out the way’ is also a good example..
Men aren’t supposed to be “emotional” is just another aspect of following the female imperative. You think a guy having a public breakdown over a woman divorcing him and taking away his kids makes women HAPPY? You think they don’t approve 1000% of the other men who GET THAT MAN ANIMAL TO SHUT UP. “Not being emotional” is just another way of GETTING THAT MAN ANIMAL TO SHUT UP. And it works real good to.
To build on that, I’ve observed that in families, it’s almost always the mothers that favor the screw-ups and the dads who hold their feet to the fire. Extend this to the workplace, the classroom, and beyond and you have a hugely dysfunctional society — which is what we’re seeing now. Or maybe their sons are the only males in their lives they feel safe treating like *bleep*. Not saying mothers can’t be totally selfish, but a father will take pride in kicking his sons when they are up, kicking them when they are down, kicking them all around. He… Read more »
I am certain many people said “Boys will be boys” when Richard Feynman won the noble prize.
I think we need a corollary to Sailer’s Rule of Female Journalism.
“The most passionate columns written by male feminists amount to demands that traditional masculinity be subverted so that come the revolution, they’re considered more masculine.”
[…] has a rightly earned reputation in the manosphere for being a manboobed captain amongst the vichy males feminization has made so common through its selective breeding efforts . The lengths to which […]