Boys will be Boys

There is an interesting subset of men that has evolved in our feminized social environment over the past 60+ years. I can’t quite refer to them as Betas since that seems too broad, and though Roissy’s initial coining of the term “Herb” (as in ‘herbivorous’) seems useful, these ‘men’ are something belonging to that set, but actively embracing and advocating for the feminine imperative. “Vichy Males” is probably a good starting point; men who are so invested in the conditioning of the feminine imperative that, unaware of how it affects their own interests as men, actively collaborate with and promote the feminine imperative’s social reengineering of masculinity.

These ‘men’ are not the oblivious blue-pill guys that the manosphere takes efforts to unplug from the feminine Matrix. They are the advocates of gender realignment, the male feminists, the men whose perspective it is that a more “equal” society is one in which masculinity is redefined to better convenience the feminine imperative. These are the ‘men’ who emphatically define “healthy masculinity” in a feminine framework where the results of testosterone and all of the innate traits that make one male are character flaws that disturb a feminine defined ‘equality’.

For the better part, Vichy Males are more or less oblivious to the feminine imperative that’s conditioned them. Whether this is a willful denial or simple indifferent ignorance is debatable, but in either case these men take the identification schema of Beta Game to the logical extreme. In some instances I’m certain the most successful amongst them make a livable wage from their dependent feminist evangelism (the feminine imperative rewards only the most Alpha-like crusaders who tow the feminist line), but for most, their advocacy is really an extreme form of identification-for-intimacy Game. In a world of White Knights, to seem unique requires a greater devotion to the feminine imperative.

Social Engineering

I had originally intended to use The Frisky’s most recent ‘feminizing boys’ article as my example for today’s post. It certainly raised the hackles of a few commenters from yesterday’s Chauvinism post, but unfortunately it’s too easy a target – it’s an incomplete beginning that doesn’t show the inevitable result of the feminization of boys. Women are encouraged to teach boys to be more like girls, teach them to pee sitting down, embrace their emotionality, cry on demand, and basically act less like little boys have an innate knack for, etc., but this is only half the picture. Those boys grow up into the gender-confused feminized men women later despise.

For the other half of the picture I present to you the most recent gender-fare from (once again) The Atlantic – The End of Violent, Simplistic, Macho Masculinity. Kudos to The Atlantic for its gender neutrality in allowing a Vichy Male like Thomas Page McBee to join the ranks of Kate Bollick, Hannah Rosin and Sandra Tsing Loh for their monthly serving of feminist triumphalism. McBee and his male-apologist sympathizers are the end result of “teaching boys to be feminists.”

While McBee is barking up the Hugo Schwyzer tree, this article reads like an exposé into the mental reasoning of a fully feminized Vichy Male. It’s more or less what I’ve come to expect from masculine apologists but I thought I would highlight the parts of it that give us an insight into the conditioning of the feminine imperative.

From the opening sentence we get an overview of how the Vichy Male’s perspective aligns with his feminine assimilation.

Boys aren’t supposed to do a lot of things: show fear or pain, compassion or tenderness; but of course men feel a full range of emotions, whether we’re “supposed to” or not.

There’s never a question about the dynamic of boy’s / men’s expectations of restraining their emotionality. The main presumption that the feminine imperative indoctrinates in its adherents is that gender is a social construct, and as such the “supposed to” aspect of this assertion is really a presumed societal expectation. Not even an afterthought is given to the idea that perhaps men aren’t wired for emotions in the same way as women. This of course might give pause to the idea of a blank-slate people-are-people equalism so the imperative conditions those questions away from any critical analysis.

However, even if this were the case, and gender was a social construct, might there have been a good reason that boys were  taught in the past to suppress their emotionality and rely more on rationalism and determination to endure pain? Perhaps it led to better, more pragmatic decision making? Again, these are question the imperative can’t afford to have concrete answers for.

The other is more personal. I know that if you are a man, you’re reading this with awareness or resistance, that how you interpret these men says a lot about the type of man you are. It’s easy to pretend to be objective, to describe a movement as if I’m not invested in its outcome, but as I researched this story I realized that I couldn’t tell the truth without exposing all of it: healthy masculinity as a sea-change, and why I want my own counter-narrative to be part of the turning tide.

Here we have a man parroting the standard male-shaming the feminine imperative conditions into women. The circular argument goes like this; if you’re a Man with a different interpretation of masculinity and this redefinition offends you it’s because you are insecure in your masculinity. This is a standard trope feminism has bred into the past 4 generation of men and women – “if you don’t agree with the feminized interpretation of masculinity it’s due to your insecurity in your own masculinity.”  Ergo, you’re less of a man for disavowing the interpretation. And this interpretation of ‘healthy masculinity’ is one which more perfectly aligns with, and doesn’t inconvenience, the feminine imperative.

He points to data: Generation Y men do more housework and are more involved fathers than any generation in American history. They also have more cross-sex friendships, which Kimmel suggests means that young men see women increasingly as true peers—equals—in life and work.

Again, more feminine-centric presumptions about male intent. Nowhere is there a consideration given towards motive or the socio-economic variables that may have led to these data.

He lists some of the words the men at the summit used to describe healthy masculinity: nurturing, kind, positive, good, caring, courage, confident, inclusive, courageous, honest, accountability, and respect. Not your father’s Marlboro man—but maybe closer to the reality of your father. Which is the point. “We have an exercise we do where we ask men and boys to name the strongest man in their life and then talk about what it is that makes him strong,” McGann says. “Most of the time, it’s their father or a counselor or a minister, and the ways in which they care for them. Or it might be about integrity, or it might be about their willingness to stand up for what they believe in, their compassion, all those kind of qualities—which are much more qualities of character. Those are always the things that we’ve associated with healthy masculinity.”

Here we see the feminine imperative evident in the qualities that should make for a “healthy masculinity.” Dropping a few of the more subjective qualities on this list, you could easily describe women having a “healthy femininity” with these characteristics. The aspersion of the ‘Marlboro Man’ is simply one more caricature of masculinity that’s been a go-to derision of the feminine imperative for decades.

The main problem with the Vichy Male characterization of a new “healthy masculinity” is that their comparative definition of ‘traditional masculinity’ has been so distorted by the feminine imperative over the past 60 years that it’s become a straw man parody that’s easily knocked down. The former “masculinity” they oppose is the ridiculous, beer swilling, fart joke, boob mesmerized, borderline abusive masculinity that’s been reinforced in pop-culture courtesy of feminization. A masculinity that requires a uniquely feminine correction is the mental image these men cling to while establishing themselves as the perfected, new and feminized version of masculinity. In other words, masculinity can only be positive in a feminine defined social framework.

The toxic narratives of unhealthy masculinity are often unquestioned, and they start very young. “There are no four more depressing words in educational policy circles then ‘boys will be boys,’ ” Kimmel says. “Because when do we say that? We say that when we throw up our hands in resignation that we can’t do anything. Why don’t we say ‘boys will be boys’ when a man wins the Noble Peace Prize?

Because doing so would give unique credit to masculinity as being the source of a man’s ability to achieve a Nobel Peace Prize through sheer determination – and that’s a credit the ‘equalist’ agenda can’t afford to have men think about. Boys will be boys and truly, despite the feminized bleating, women wouldn’t want it any other way. Boys will take risks, boys will injure themselves, boys will leave the security of the safe side of the sidewalk their mothers forbid them to leave, because that’s what boys do.

Compassion might be a place to start, for yourself and others. “Trying to hold men accountable connects to unhealthy masculinity,” McGann says. “I’ve said for years that one of the things about unhealthy masculinity, or dominant stories of masculinity, is that men are socialized to push past pain, ignore pain, like it doesn’t harm you in any kind of way, you’re not vulnerable. If you can’t really recognize and experience your own pain, then how can you do it with anybody else?”

Men push past pain for good reason – it is the key to growth into a healthy maturity. Men push past pain, not just a social expectation from other men, but because of the same expectations from women. It’s by necessity, not social pressure.Very few men fail to recognize their own pain, but a feminine mindset determined to vilify masculinity would rather we believe that not expressing that pain is always a net negative. The irony this mindset is oblivious of is that at the first mention of a man’s pain, at the first expression of his own self-concern he is accused of bitterness. “You must’ve been really burned to think what you think.” This is the root of the Male Catch 22.

Like a lot of guys, I had a shitty dad. He was uneasy in himself, abusive, shut down. Being a guy to me seemed located in his hamstrung emotions, his uncomfortable displays of drunken vulnerability. I remember him singing Frank Sinatra in this mournful voice, how I pitied and hated him, how I never wanted to become him.

“No Luke, I am your Father.”

“That’s not true!,….THAT”S IMPOSSIBLE!!”

I suppose I should mention here that virtually all Vichy Males are Promise Keeper.

Whether or not men know the phrase “healthy masculinity,” signs of changes are blooming everywhere. I think about Kimmel, who says the roots of the shifting gender roles are a movement away from rigidity. Feminism allowed women to unlock the parts of themselves society kept from them, and now men are doing the same. He posits that a cure for what ails us that sounds familiar to me, the work I’ve done to become my own man embodied: “I don’t see us as becoming a more masculine culture or a more feminine culture, I see us becoming a more balanced culture,” he says. Look at the last election: men helped vote women into power all over the country, including a transgender woman in New Hampshire.

Mark Minter, paging Mark Minter, please report to the comments section, thank you. One element I find interesting in feminist men is a desire to experience the same so-called liberation from a masculine gender role assignment that feminist women claim to have. It’s as if the feminine identification isn’t complete unless they can tap into that same gender straightjacket indignation release women do – they can’t be ‘equals’ unless they suffer a similar (albeit self-constructed) gender role release. This is the level of conviction Vichy Males strive for.

One part I do agree with though, “Feminism allowed women to unlock the parts of themselves society kept from them, and now men are doing the same.” The tragic irony of women’s innate Hypergamy’s unfettered release on men is entirely lost on McBee. And yes, Men, Alpha Men, are now released from the same previous constrictions.

Men are embracing a more nurturing fatherhood with zeal, from Michael Chabon to the super-engaged, former stay-at-home dad Chris on Up All Night. And Modern Family‘s dinosaur patriarch, Jay, is as old-school as they come, especially next to his touchy-feely son-in-law, Phil. In a reversal of past tropes, however, Jay’s blundering inability to connect to his feelings makes him the joke to be tolerated and Phil’s the man of the moment. More techy than macho, he’s thoroughly nonplussed when he realizes he’s on a gay date just as he’s being kissed.

As I stated above, the only model for masculinity these ‘new men’ have for comparative purposes are the distorted archetypes of masculinity that a feminized pop-culture and media has characterized for them, and here we have the perfect example of this. When all you’ve ever had representative of a masculine archetype has been ridiculous cartoon characters of men, it’s not such a daunting task to “be a better man” than them. In fact, the episode McBee describes here not only props up a “dinosaur patriarch” archetype, but also knocks him down with a character he identifies with in being the ‘new’ definition of masculinity. Yay, for team ‘new man’!

You can read the article in its entirety if you have the stomach, but it essentially ends on the same note as my last highlight here.

Positive Masculinity

Our popular conscious perspective of masculinity has been remolded by the feminine imperative and fed back to the likes of Vichy Males like McBee here. I wish I could say he was an outlier, but he’s not. He’s one more crab in the barrel pulling frustrated, confused and conflicted men back down into feminization. Maybe unwittingly, maybe as a form of Beta Game, but men endorsing and evangelizing the feminine imperative are the most effective ambassadors of the imperative. It’s men, and particularly ones other men respect, who make the best tools for feminization – in fact men’s participation is an integral part of the imperative’s effectiveness in social engineering.

One aspect of McBee’s misgivings I do agree with is the need for a Positive Masculinity. A masculinity not predicated on the social interests of the feminine imperative. One defined by uniquely male standards that embrace our natural capacities for focused agression, that accepts rather than derides the effects of testosterone as a constructive (and yes, destructive) part of our natures. We need a masculinity that recognizes women’s innate arousal and attraction to it as something that sets men apart by its difference from women, not one that attempts to homogenize and androgynize it to be more palatable to women. A masculinity that is respected for being the predominant driving force in what our species has become as a result of it. A masculinity that is unapologetically dominant and beneficent.

We don’t need men to get in touch with their feminine sides, feminization has reinforced this for far too long. Masculinity isn’t about ‘men behaving badly’ in a feminine context, nor is it about parodies of men rediscovering “manly pursuits” pre-manufactured by what the feminine imperative laughs at men for.

Masculinity is about Boys being Boys, and Men being Men.

109 comments

  1. As you noted near the beginning of the post, all of this is predicated upon gender being a ‘social construct’, which is so stupid it’s not even worth active dismissal. See: biological and behavioral differences between males and females of all species on Earth. I’m surprised any guys at all buy into this (do they?).

  2. Yo Rollo this is the second time that you’ve recently spoken about the need for many feminized/beta men to not end up like their father. If you really want to understand the Beta/”Mr. Nice Guy” mindset further then I suggest you read “No More Mr. Nice Guy” by Dr. Robert Glover. It goes into detail why the beta/nice guy crowed operates the way that it does. Considering you’re into psychology; this may be illuminating for you.

    One of the common traits of that crowd is a desire to not end up like their father. Interesting.

    Here is the PDF link https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf#page=11

    Go down to the bottom section of page 11 Characteristics of Nice Guys:

    Characteristics of Nice Guys

    Every Nice Guy is unique, but all have a cluster of similar characteristics. These traits are the result of a script, often formed in childhood, that guides their lives. While other men may have one or two of these traits, Nice Guys seem to possess a significant number.

    Nice Guys are givers. Nice Guys frequently state that it makes them feel good to give to others. These men believe their generosity is a sign of how good they are and will make other people love and appreciate them.

    Nice Guys fix and caretake. If a person has a problem, has a need, is angry, depressed or sad, Nice Guys will frequently attempt to solve or fix the situation (usually without being asked).

    Nice Guys seek approval from others. A universal trait of the Nice Guy Syndrome is the seeking of validation from others. Everything a Nice Guy does or says is at some level calculated to gain someone’s
    approval or avoid disapproval. This is especially true in their relationships with women.

    Nice Guys avoid conflict. Nice Guys seek to keep their world smooth. To do this, they avoid doing things that might rock the boat or upset anyone.

    Nice Guys believe they must hide their perceived flaws and mistakes. These men are afraid that others will get mad at them, shame them, or leave them if some mistake or shortcoming is exposed.

    Nice Guys seek the “right” way to do things. Nice Guys believe there is a key to having a happy, problem-free life. They are convinced that if they can only figure out the right way to do everything, nothing should ever go wrong.

    Nice Guys repress their feelings. Nice Guys tend to analyze rather than feel. They may see feelings as a waste of time and energy. They frequently try to keep their feelings on an even keel.

    *Nice Guys often try to be different from their fathers. Many Nice Guys report having unavailable, absent, passive, angry, philandering, or alcoholic fathers. It is not unusual for these men to make a decision at some point in their lives to try to be 180 degrees different from Dad.*

    Nice Guys are often more comfortable relating to women than to men. Due to their childhood conditioning, many Nice Guys have few male friends. Nice Guys frequently seek the approval of women and convince themselves they are different from other men. They like to believe that they are not selfish, angry, or abusive — traits they link to “other” men.

    Nice Guys have difficulty making their needs a priority. These men often feel that it is selfish to put their needs first. They believe it is a virtue to put others’ needs ahead of their own.

    Nice Guys often make their partner their emotional center. Many Nice Guys report that they are only happy if their partner is happy. Therefore they will often focus tremendous energy on their intimate relationships.

  3. “Nice Guys repress their feelings. Nice Guys tend to analyze rather than feel. They may see feelings as a waste of time and energy. They frequently try to keep their feelings on an even keel.”

    Interesting how we’re always told to be in touch with our feelings, yet so many nice guys end up this way.

    To the Vichy’s, it’s all about WHICH feelings you’re in touch with. Crying because the horse dies in a movie is fine, but if you feel like smacking that bitch because she WON’T SHUT THE FUCK UP, then “getting in touch with your feelings” is verboten.

  4. Just wanted to point out since you’ve made this mistake a few times. Who’s = who is. “Whose” is the possessive form which you’re looking for.
    [corrected, thanks]

  5. It’s amazing how McBee choses to see the characters on Modern Family. I see Jay as the strong, capable guy that everyone knows will handle things and let’s not forget his HOT, YOUNG WIFE! Phil represents everything I hate about the portrayal of men (I use the term loosely) on TV and in the movies. My wife loathes Phil and reminds me weekly that in reality no attractive woman with other choices would marry a boob like him. Jay? She digs Jay…

  6. How does the feminine imperative reconcile with the fact women hate feminized men? Why would the feminine imperative create the very thing they despise?

    Is it a giant societal shit test, nurturing gone mad, solipsism projected on a mass level, the fear of their own desires….?

  7. “One aspect of McBee’s misgivings I do agree with is the need for a Positive Masculinity. A masculinity not predicated on the social interests of the feminine imperative. One defined by uniquely male standards that embrace our natural capacities for focused agression, that accepts rather than derides the effects of testosterone as a constructive (and yes, destructive) part of our natures. We need a masculinity that recognizes women’s innate arousal and attraction to it as something that sets men apart by its difference from women, not one that attempts to homogenize and androgynize it to be more palatable to women. A masculinity that is respected for being the predominant driving force in what our species has become as a result of it. A masculinity that is unapologetically dominant and beneficent.”

    This is the crux, the apex of this post, the 10-ring to which our arrows of intent, guided by will, should squarely aim and penetrate.

    There is nothing easy or simple about this. Men can hardly write about these things anonymously, much less talk about them in person, without immense blowback from the core of a highly feminized society. Most of the bloggers & writers on this topic do so anonymously, and those who do write openly about them are targets of ad hominem attacks for being “misogynists,” since anything remotely criticizing women, or even promoting male interests is derided as anti-female. Team Women, with their Vichy water-carriers, is a vast army. The androcentric, masculinist movement is still in its nascent, embryonic phases. We have a long, long way to go before we can openly talk of these things, and blog under our own names without being blacklisted.

    For now, most bloggers are either politically anarchists, politically agnostic, or belong to the right or alternative right. There are very few, if any, active masculinist writers on the left. The left has completely been shot through with the feminist toxin. As long as this remains a partisan issue, it will not go far. So some form of a masculinist movement on the left is needed as well. This means addressing the government’s near-total feminist nature, and bringing issues of men & boys to the fore.
    We need cultural changes as well as political change, for it is the cultural movement that shapes the political. So we do what we can.

    For the moment, for the majority of the new masculinists out there, we must do our work in silence, if not in secret. The order of the day is to show, not tell. To be, to do, to act, as a masculinist, and that means both creatively forming new works of art and culture that support this nascent masculinist movement, and destructively innovating in our personal lives.

    That means cutting a wide swath through the cultural landscape, implementing the masculine imperative at every opportunity, and wherever possible denying the feminine imperative. This means covert warfare on the Vichy males, which can, ironically convert them to the masculinist perspective.

    It’s also imperative that at least some cohesion of the MRM and game communities is reached. This integration doesn’t seem far off; there is far less back-biting in the ‘sphere than there used to be.

  8. How does the feminine imperative reconcile with the fact women hate feminized men? Why would the feminine imperative create the very thing they despise?

    They don’t reconcile with it because they can’t see it. They can see feminized men and know they dislike them, but they can’t see how the two are interrelated. They watch chick flicks and the nice guys *mans up” at the end and their then attractive. They honestly believe that some nice girl will fall madly in love with the nice guy, they just can’t be the one. The dork from Zombie Land deserves the girl and he should always get her. They can’t see in real life that he’s really not attractive at all.

    They are high on some sort of perceived power and they have zero idea of it’s consequences or how to use it because it’s masculine and their women. They can make themselves believe they are truly happy for quite a while because they can get a guy to pay attention to them and go home with them. They can even have a relationship with an herb who makes good money to continue the charade. But, if there was true happiness there, the divorce rate wouldn’t be inundated with “unhaaaaappppyyy” divorces or articles from The Atlantic bemoaning whatever the hell it is they wish to complain about today.

  9. “How does the feminine imperative reconcile with the fact women hate feminized men? Why would the feminine imperative create the very thing they despise?”

    Women aren’t logical. Men’s biggest failure was taking what women said as gospel…instead of looking at their action.

  10. Johnnycomelately: That’s why I’m not hooked up on whether or not we promote the feminine imperative. We promote the masculine imperative, and a nice side effect of that is that women like it, too.

    Revo: It’s not just that the feminine imperative has “been shot through with feminist toxin”, it’s the same thing. Rousseau, the great-grandfather of leftism, explicitly hoped to push the feminine imperative (hated fatherhood, etc.). There’s a reason that every leftist movement from the Progressives of 100 years ago to Soviet Russia to Mao’s China has actively promoted “equality” between the sexes. Lefty economics (sharing, merit is a myth) are feminized economics, and the same goes for every leftist policy prescription.

    I know we don’t always like to go there, but our movement is inherently political. Even Roosh seems to be waking up to this, and I hope he does soon because he’ll be a great ally.

  11. Yes I know how “nice guys” hide their feelings the wrong way as per NMMNG. But all men keep the emotions under wraps, not just nice guys. That IS part of the masculine imperative – a good part. It’s not that we don’t have the emotions, but we are smart enough to know NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THEM. No man, nobody, hell not even me. Someone gets all weepy on me I step away slowly. I expect they would to the same to me if I did a John Boehner myself. It’s only OK if you’re in a small group of buddies or a paid therapist, both will try to help you work the problem, not the gloom. Otherwise it’s what we call TMI. Certainly women don’t REALLY want to see us open up – they say they do, but when men show feelings, boy what a tingle killer! Unless it’s anger. THAT’s expected.

  12. “It’s not that we don’t have the emotions, but we are smart enough to know NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THEM”

    I disagree. Men don’t show their emotions for the same reason that they don’t emote during a poker game, they don’t want to tip their hand to competitors.

    I certainly would love to see the emotions of a competitor so I now know his position and his weaknesses.

    Men don’t emote in public so they don’t show weakness.

  13. Women don’t “hate” feminized men. The average ones are irrelevant to women, while the “cool” ones are like girlfriends with more resources and less drama. It’s only the “could be alpha” ones that would cause some frustration and resentment, but I wouldn’t say it goes as far as hate.

  14. Martel,

    The feminine imperative is NOT the same thing as feminism. This is a category error. The feminine imperative is simply a female reproductive strategy. In most of the non-anglosphere world, the feminine imperative was simply to be feminine. In fact a very strong argument can be made that a deep and true feminine expression is the strongest possible manifestion of the feminine imperative, since it’s their natural power base.

    We masculinists must inspire and reward true femininity. This goes hand in hand with acceptance (but not simple acquiessence) of hypergamy. Hypergamy is the female state of nature, and it’s true masculinity that satiates it. Ergo, game.

  15. I think the connection between masculinity and aggression is the thing feminists are most afraid of, hence all the effort dedicated to smothering the testosterone out of boys. Raised serum T increases aggression and risk-taking, as surely as the sun rises in the East.

    Of course, for most men, that aggression was never directed at women. The then-prevailing social contract channeled the pent-up sex drive of both sexes to create a stable society. Unfortunately, as I’m sure Mark Minter will note, that ship sailed a long time ago.

    As an antidote to the caricatures of masculinity inundating our culture, I would suggest boys be encouraged to read the great epics: the Illiad, the Odyssey, the Aeneid, Beowulf, or even something more recent like All Quiet on the Western Front. (The Great Gatsby is a wonderful counter-example illustrating the pitfalls of the beta mating strategy.) It’s a shame that many of these books

  16. Ahem. Must’ve forgotten to finish typing.

    It’s a shame that many of these books are no longer taught in school. Instead, you get Things Fall Apart, which, as far as I can remember, was four hundred pages about colonialist yams.

  17. “All Quiet…” is completely, utterly, and pointlessly depressing. An incredibly prescient book, however, is “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.”. It’s the perfect metaphor for what our society is doing to men. The movie’s good but it cuts out all the edgy stuff like Billy’s relationship with his mom and the descriptions of the nurse’s sadism. Rollo calls it the Matrix in that its a false world we’ve bought into. Kesey calls it The Combine, an active, malevolent force beating us into submission, forcing our masculine efforts into the feminine whole.

    Revo, I agree with you; I mistyped. Replace my first use of “feminine imperative” with “leftism” and I’ll make some sense.

  18. Just a ding dang minute!

    Your Atlantic correspondent,Thomas Page McBee is a TRANSSEXUAL. Who I gather has had the snip, tuck and crazy glue. On this side of his man he is a woman.

    NOW his article makes sense. He is trying to use his woman brain to explicate what he thinks is his maleness. He can only be starting to get what that even IS. Which may assuage the Vichy Males, but he’s so new at this game he;s still chanting “Got one, got one, everybody’s got one…”

  19. Thank you Mr. Flange. I was expecting an update at the end of Rollo’s post or at the very least a comment highlighting for this extremely important fact.

  20. “A masculinity that is respected for being the predominant driving force in what our species has become as a result of it.”

    What our species has become is not entirely positive. As long as you are willing to take credit for the bad as well as the good, go on witchu bad self, homie.

  21. “At some point though, we (the readership, not Rollo) need to start taking the Jack Donovan approach. He responds to Jezebel, Gawker, Feministing, The Atlantic, and Slate in one fatal swoop.”

    Yeh, and our Mr. Donovan has taken the “masculine imperative” to a whole new level, if you know what I mean. Ahem, cough, ahem, wink, nudge, ahem, cough, wink.

    😉

  22. I think one of the fundamental failings with modern feminism, or maybe I should call it pop feminism, is this push for men and women to be “equal” when men and women are not. Its a biological and psychological fact. We are as different as well.. adam and eve. What this group of feminist fail to realize is their fight should be for equal “rights”, not equality.

    Should a women be able to enlist in the infantry.. sure… if she can perform at the same level as a man in said units. Should a women make the same pay as a man, sure, if she does the same job and has the same credentials. The expectations should be the same for both genders. If a man doesn’t know the difference between a single stitch and a cross stitch, well guess he can’t get on project runway. If a woman can’t do 20 proper pull ups after running 3 miles, guess she can’t be a marine infantry man (guessing that the PT requirements).

    I’m hoping more people will acknowledge and appreciate the fantastic differences between men and women, instead of trying to make women men and men women…

  23. The moment when men start showing their feelings will be right after the moment when women evolve to appreciate those feelings, or anything else for that matter. What is it with guys telling all around the manosphere not to express their feelings? Well, Hopeless Romantic, it is easy to explain/repeat. There are many posts, threads, stories, etc of guys who noticed how their lady began losing interest once they opened their mouth about the feelings. They just lose interest, the mystery is gone, the chase is gone, the dread is gone. If you are a man, you probably did it. If you are a woman, you probably heard it from a guy.

  24. Charles, “I think one of the fundamental failings with modern feminism, or maybe I should call it pop feminism, is this push for men and women to be “equal” when men and women are not. Its a biological and psychological fact. We are as different as well.. adam and eve. What this group of feminist fail to realize is their fight should be for equal “rights”, not equality.”

    You’re confusing equality with sameness. Equality means equal legal rights, not that any two people become exactly the same, which is impossible.

    ” There are many posts, threads, stories, etc of guys who noticed how their lady began losing interest once they opened their mouth about the feelings. They just lose interest, the mystery is gone, the chase is gone, the dread is gone. If you are a man, you probably did it. If you are a woman, you probably heard it from a guy.”

    The only men who I want to hear about their “feeeeeewings” from is men whom I’m personally attracted to, interested and in a relationship with. And those are also the only men I express my “feeeeeeewings” to as well.

    Nobody wants to hear about the loving “feeeeeewings” someone whom they are NOT interested in has for them.

    Just because you’re nice or emotionally expressive does not mean any woman YOU are interested in owes you a damn thing. Women want nice and emotionally expressive from attractive men whom they are interested in.

    Obama does not owe you a girlfriend, even if he gave you a free phone.

  25. In some people’s minds you can’t have masculinity without femininity. The idea that men can build the image of what a man is without the involvement of feminist/femininity is crazy to them.

  26. @Hopeless Romantic

    You’re confusing equality with sameness. Equality means equal legal rights, not that any two people become exactly the same, which is impossible.

    He’s not confusing anything. Sameness is exactly what feminist equality is all about. Not in the sense that “two people are exactly the same” (which is not what was being suggested anyway) but more in the sense that men and women are supposedly “the same” apart from their reproductive plumbing, and that any apparent differences are as a result of cultural influence and upbringing. That’s what feminists mean by the term “gender is a social construct”. Maybe you should actually learn something about feminism before trying to defuse criticisms of it.

    The only men who I want to hear about their “feeeeeewings” from is men whom I’m personally attracted to, interested and in a relationship with. And those are also the only men I express my “feeeeeeewings” to as well.
    Nobody wants to hear about the loving “feeeeeewings” someone whom they are NOT interested in has for them.
    Just because you’re nice or emotionally expressive does not mean any woman YOU are interested in owes you a damn thing. Women want nice and emotionally expressive from attractive men whom they are interested in.
    Obama does not owe you a girlfriend, even if he gave you a free phone.

    This rambling narration about your feeeewings suggests to me that you didn’t understand the post you were replying to. Plus you contradicted yourself 😉

  27. @E.J.

    At some point though, we (the readership, not Rollo) need to start taking the Jack Donovan approach. He responds to Jezebel, Gawker, Feministing, The Atlantic, and Slate in one fatal swoop.
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2012/11/im-sorry-i-just-dont-keep-up-with-the-ladies-gossip-magazines

    Yes, I was going to reference Jack Donovan too, specifically “The Way of Men”, which has a great dissection on why society has pressured men to act in a traditionally masculine way, and which also suggests that men alone need to decide on the definition of masculinity.

    @Rollo

    Great post, and I love the term Vichy Males! 😉

  28. “The only men who I want to hear about their “feeeeeewings” from is men whom I’m personally attracted to, interested and in a relationship with.”

    Really…because when I told my feeeeeeeeewings to gals who were attracted to, interested, and in a relationship with me…it was about a month later that they dumped me. Even in my blue pill days when I let loose my feelings I could see something in their face and eyes that didn’t look good.

  29. Anybody remember D-FENS from “Falling Down”? Watched it last night for the first time post pill. No other movie makes the case better against organizes feminism, and should be included in all school men’s studies classes. Wait, there aren’t any men’s studies classes.

  30. Vichy Males = Manboobz

    Rollo, have you read The Way of Men by Jack Donovan?

    I will probably have more commentary on the article after I get a chance to read it all the way. Looks like it is going to be a good ‘un!

  31. Am I the only one that picked up on the techie being on a date and being “nonplussed” when realizing it was a gay date and he was getting gay kissed? what a fag!! does it get any more beta than that? I’ve got nothing against gay people as they were born that way. but i just picture some michael stipe looking brooklyn hipster getting another dude’s tongue down his throat and being ok with it, because a real man is in touch with his fem side. i am now at a loss for words…

  32. On a side note –

    I really want to seem some manosphere gear available for the red pill man. Names of blogs, symbolic red pills, axioms, quotes, etc. I think it’s high time we start sending out beacons to other men so that we can recognize fellow travellers who have unplugged from “The Matrix”. They can also serve as conversation starters with fellow men who need unplugging.

    It’s also time for a book Rollo.
    [Probably Q1 of 2013 at this stage, stay tuned.]

    We need some sort of consice travel compendium that covers the major themes of this and other manosphere blogs. I often find myself wishing I had a book that I could quickly reference since the quality of the analysis contained is often as perspicacious and eviscerating as one could hope to make themselves. Even an anthology of the most seminal blog postings and subsequent discussions would be a great start. I think a book is a more accessible reference than a blog. It also has more status and is more portable. It is easier to get someone one to look at a book page then try to get them to read a blog posting. It can also be loaned which conveys an obligation to the person it is given to to read it.

  33. “Its scary how an entire sex is demonized for how it naturally is.”

    Yeah. Woman Haters do the same thing. Hating hypergamy resenting Game complaining about the downfall of beta, etc. Same.

  34. @3alpha Re: The movie, Falling Down. You’ve piqued my interest. Now I MUST watch that movie. I own a copy but have not yet gotten around to watching it.

  35. I agree the term ‘beta’ or ‘blue-pill’ isn’t sufficiently descriptive for guys like McBee.

    ‘Vichy males’ doesn’t roll off the tongue, really, but it does capture the cowardice, co-optation and sniveling malevolence of these guys—it’ll do for now.

  36. Well damn, I suppose it is incumbent upon me to recognize that McBee is in fact a tranny. Sorry for my lack of due diligence, but it’s not like the guy(?) made it very evident in the article.

    However, I do think that this revelation only further emphasizes the points I made in my post. I could very easily replace McBee’s material with that of fellow Vichy collaborator Hugo Schwyzer (a person born with a penis to the best of my knowledge) and it would still be relevant to my post.

  37. The more I think about it, the more I like the term “Vichy”. The French didn’t just keel over like the limp-wrists they are made out to be. They had no natural advantages (the Atlantic, the Channel, or the Steppes) that could keep the enemy out, they were out fought by some of the best generals of the century with a modern army using innovative techniques. In short, they were outclassed.

    The Femifascists in our war have not been holding their punches either. They have the panzers of the state to roll over the men through legal means and the stukas of the media to bombard us with lies. They have legions upon legions of willing panzergrenadiers to go out, slut it up, and then tell men to man up with their shamegewehrs. The manosphere may be la belle Resistance but we are splintered and have nowhere near the manpower or resources that the Femmacht can bring to bear. We even get infiltrated by the Gestapoon from time to time who shut down guys like Bskillet.

    Eventually we are going to need to find our de Gaulle because men won’t be liberated by the scattered voices of the Resistance. We will need all men to wake up because the first tanks into Paris needs to be those of the Free French Division.

  38. More big picture related
    One wonders if it is merely a coincidence between the feminization of society and the rise of the extroverted ideal (as written about in the book – Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking by Susan Cain) which have run almost in parallel with one another in the last 50-60 years.
    Once upon a time the quality of a man was judged upon strong character traits generally seen in the way he acts (Cain talks about the quality of past American presidents like Andrew Jackson whom displayed certain traits but may not have been great orators).
    Now it seems (especially in the business and political spheres) that a ‘quality man’ is some one who appears to be quality by way of projecting an image and who can make all the right noises to again sound like a man of high quality – the superficial exterior – no matter if he doesn’t actually display any character traits when observed in action – especially so when the pressure is applied.
    Parallels can be drawn with women who project a constructed image and make noises representing various things that supposedly appeal to them but the real proof (or truth) is in their actions – which as we know tend to be at odds with what they say.

    A point about Men being Men is that one has to have strong resolve to stay on course and not be blown off course by women and the constructed frame of modern society.

    A man is also not a tree. If you find yourself planted some where in a group of people whom don’t share or display the ideals you hold ( more aligned to what a man should be) then it is time to show strong resolve and get up and move away so to speak. A setting can be relative dependent with the majority ruling – you can be right and the odd one out amongst many wrongs.

  39. One little droplet of knowledge modern historians neglect to tell us is how pre-eminent the “peace” movement was in Britain and France during the 1930’s. Their nations’ wimpiness was part of what inspired Hitler to become as aggressive as he was. They unwittingly complied in the chaos that ensued by not being men. That’s one reason I’m liking the term “Vichy Male”.

    Jimmy is also onto something important here. Men are much better judges of character than women, especially when it comes to other men. We’re far more likely to judge each other based on actual competence than just his ability to master cocky/funny. Furthermore, what we respect on a conscious level usually corresponds with what we respect on a more subconscious level. We don’t say that we respect co-workers who show up on time and then demean them for doing it.

    However, in our feminized society, we’re finding that actual substance is becoming close to irrelevant. Other men will reward you for being competent, but women reward you for how Alpha you smell to them.

    Now that women head most of our families and institutions, we’re finding ourselves led by incompetent idiots who nonetheless talk a good game. We vote for the politician who is best at convincing us they “care” or some other nonsense. Some boring dude who actually knows how to run an organization has no chance.

    Just one more reason the Matriarchy must needs be overthrown.

  40. Holy crap, I could NOT agree with you more. I was introduced to a man named Dean Esmay who found my blog http://www.judgybitch.com and I’m suddenly finding myself in a whole new world of people who think the same way I do!

    It’s so fantastic! As the mother of a little son, and the mother of two daughters who will one day grow up and look around for a MAN to marry, I can’t thank you enough for speaking out in favor of boys being boys and men being men.

  41. How to write a Hugo Schwyzer article on any topic:
    (1) Define a relationship problem or issue.
    (2) Say men fucked it up.

    “Falling Down” is flawed but a favorite of mine; the meta-joke of course is every gangsta or asshat thinks they can dump on the crew-cut, bespectacled white-bread Bill Foster a/k/a/ D-FENS, until he pulls out the Uzi. That’s the funny stuff. But the movie is really about “Can’t we all just get along?” It was made in L.A. during the Rodney King riots.

  42. we have the radio on at work, and today it hit me how pretty much all of the songs played that are about love by men are ‘pining for the one they’ve lost’ type. i cannot listen to these songs in the same way anymore and it annoys me a little bit, its almost no wonder men turn out the way they do if this stuff buries itself into the unconscious from all these covert means that we least expect. television is pretty overt in comparison to this.

  43. Martel is really onto something here (to echo his own words). He wrote:

    “Men are much better judges of character than women, especially when it comes to other men. We’re far more likely to judge each other based on actual competence than just his ability to master cocky/funny… We don’t say that we respect co-workers who show up on time and then demean them for doing it.”

    To build on that, I’ve observed that in families, it’s almost always the mothers that favor the screw-ups and the dads who hold their feet to the fire. Extend this to the workplace, the classroom, and beyond and you have a hugely dysfunctional society — which is what we’re seeing now.

  44. @kolo I’ve noticed that too, and the “if you leave I’ll be incomplete” ones. And women singing about the one that got away. Every now and then, you hear a song that slightly touches the mechanics explained by the manosphere. Songs like S.O.S Band’s “Just Be Good To Me” and Faithless’ “Killer’s Lullaby”.

  45. With regard to Martel’s post, this is the essence of why game works (game defined as the mimicking of dominant traits), because in the civilized world you can be irrationally self-confident without consequence. Think you’re tough shit in a time/place that isn’t civilized? You were tested. The only guy walking around as king ding-a-ling is the guy that kicked the shit out of everyone else. In essence, confidence was a by-product of accomplishment, not a precursor. I think alot of rational guys struggle with this for the same reason. They need a tangible reason from which to derive their confidence, and their capacity for self-delusion is limited.

    Game is meant for environments made safe (like upper-middle class bars and chic neighborhoods) where people won’t make you prove yourself.

    @days of broken Arrows

    “To build on that, I’ve observed that in families, it’s almost always the mothers that favor the screw-ups and the dads who hold their feet to the fire. Extend this to the workplace, the classroom, and beyond and you have a hugely dysfunctional society — which is what we’re seeing now”

    That’s because civilization is a male thing, it’s not a female thing. Females by nature are more self-destructive (oddly, men self-destruct more, but it’s usually due to women issues). There’s a reason great socities rise first then allow women more freedoms later (which typically corresponds with decline) Don’t blame them, they didn’t ask to be this way, it’s just nature. However, this is where men have failed. It’s like letting the dog take the wheel. We should know that this isn’t their thing yet we let them be in charge.

  46. Great post, and seems to totally agree with what I’ve been thinking about this, too. When they tell men to get in touch with their feelings, they assume men are just like women inside, or something, and need to whine and cry just as much. Maybe it’s just my impression, but men really don’t have the urge to cry all that often…
    Men do express anger and bitterness sometimes, but then feminized men and women say it’s “Too scary/ sick/evil/sociopathic, stop it”. Yeah, they want you to “get in touch with your feelings”, but they will selectively listen to only those that fit their image of how a man should feel.

  47. “Rollo, have you read The Way of Men by Jack Donovan?”

    If anyone knows about men’s ways, its our ol’ boy Jack. 😉

  48. @kolo &love’s orphan
    Ever since i unplugged i see it and here it everywhere. it’s like the rowdy roddy piper movie in which he sees the aliens whenever he wears the special sunglasses. if you’ve ever seen Dexter, angel is the biggest white knight beta ever to get squeezed out of a woman’s love canal. betaism is in commercials and movies, written by betas to get women to buy their jolly green giant corn and ask their mans to take them to see the next “forget paris”.
    i moved to israel 4 years ago and society itself is way more alpha. but being that we’re jews we live in a very matriarchal (right word usage?) society in which women and children enjoy more rights than whats healthy for them. The result is both women and children with a huge sense of entitlement and a complete lack of discipline.
    the plus side to society here is you can pretty much act how you want without fear of getting slapped/sued. oh and the bitches are so hot.

  49. “If anyone knows about men’s ways, its our ol’ boy Jack. ”

    Have to say, this is exactly the type of bitchy, devoid-of-all-content remark that i’ve come to expect in our screwed up feminist society. Rather than deal with the content of The Way of Men (which is excellent), the attack comes in the form of personal commentary that tries to deflect from the topic at hand.

    I think most people here would know his personal preferences, and most people who have read The Way of Men would acknowledge that its a damn good book too.

    “Masculinity is about Boys being Boys, and Men being Men.”

    Boys being boys is the exact starting point for the attack on masculinity. It is no coincidence that ADD/ADHD has suddenly become a disorder of epic proportions, and the ability to diagnose such a “condition” illustrates the power that the feminists have accumulated over the past decades. They have actually managed to identify alpha male behaviour as a disorder in children! When you think about the scale of this accomplishment it is incredible. Given that the vast majority of men have been adequately feminised the 10 million or so children diagnosed with ADHD in the US must represent a significant proportion of those naughty alphas running around.

    What that means, IMO, is that the red-pill work will become even more important in the future as there will be even less alpha males coming through the ranks. It’s a difficult task thanks to the requirement to remain sufficiently anonymous to avoid HR departments (or even smear attacks if you are self employed), or be in a position where such attacks wouldn’t matter.

  50. Glad to know I’ve got an “alpha disorder”.

    That makes my procrastination and lack of focus on tasks at hand a lot easier to accept.

  51. @ nek: “The only guy walking around as king ding-a-ling is the guy that kicked the shit out of everyone else.” Love that line… I think it also calls attention to the fact that, in many ways men don’t have the options to “prove” themselves to other men as they probably did in the past. Or at least not ones that feel particularly satisfying. I doubt being a high-powered lawyer has the status or satisfaction of bludgeoning your enemy.

  52. nek: “Think you’re tough shit in a time/place that isn’t civilized? You were tested. The only guy walking around as king ding-a-ling is the guy that kicked the shit out of everyone else. In essence, confidence was a by-product of accomplishment, not a precursor.”

    Perfect! We see this phenomenon played out even today in our inner cities. You don’t walk into a club on Chicago’s South Side acting like you’re the shit unless you can back it up. Play like Mystery, cocky but without male support, and you will get your shit destroyed.

    “In essence, confidence was a by-product of accomplishment, not a precursor. I think alot of rational guys struggle with this for the same reason. They need a tangible reason from which to derive their confidence, and their capacity for self-delusion is limited.”

    Also huge, and something I struggled with forever. You used to get the ladies by accomplishing something, now you just get them by being confident (and it some cases the more delusional the confidence, the better). This reflects the vast disconnect between Alpha and leaders of men, and as long as this disconnect exists, our civilization will decline.

    nek: “They have actually managed to identify alpha male behaviour as a disorder in children!”

    Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! You nailed it! I was raised by a single mom. She loved me beyond belief, even though she really fucked me up. However, they wanted to drug me and she wouldn’t let them, and for that I will always be grateful. She buried and suppressed my inner Alpha, but she wouldn’t let them kill him.

  53. Do young boys/adolescents even fist fight anymore these days? I’m 34, and growing up, probably got into at least a half dozen fist fights with many of them being childhood neighborhood friends and it was considered normal. My parents would laugh it off and have me call whoever I fought and apologize that evening.

    I took a good beating and also dished one out here and there. My point is I think every man needs to take an ass kicking every once in awhile as it adds character. I read a couple Hugo Shwyzer articles and he needs to get in the ring with someone big time. It’ll teach him more in 5 minutes than everything he’s ever known.

  54. I know they get in fights, but it’s different now. I knew an awkward, gangly 16 year-old who had been hassled by a bully all through his freshman and sophomore years. One day, as a junior, the bully was shoving him. He turned around and laid him out in one punch.

    He was suspended for a week, arrested, and had to do community service. “Zero tolerance” on fighting, you see.

  55. “He was suspended for a week, arrested, and had to do community service. “Zero tolerance” on fighting, you see.”

    The weak in schools are legislated against. The person that needs to be full apeshit and cream the bully will get in trouble that will impact his future. At of these guys are nerdy types that care about college and such and don’t want to have something on his record and all that jazz, so he just takes it having his ego whittled down to nothing.

    The solution is teach your son to not be weak to begin with. Bullys don’t target strength. The Gracies actually have an anti bully course which begins by teaching BJJ and because that child has a viable option to fight back they teach him to verbally assertive which will work only because they have the force to back it up.

  56. “The weak in schools are legislated against.”

    Kind of like in everythiing else (family law, etc.) Just more evidence that the Matriarchy needs to be overthrown.

    Female legality is nonsense. On one hand, be meek, learn to listen to your wife, negotiate with bullies, and be a teambuilder at work. And then when that strategy fails against the bully or your wife, we’ll rip you to shreds.

    Two necessary steps: Become an Alpha so as to become a master within the Matrix. Then, together we overturn the Matriarchy so that male reason rules us again instead of female capriciousness.

  57. I understandably realize in-school fighting is not tolerated and punished because of bullying etc., but how about out of school and just growing up amongst friends? I grew up wrestling, playing football & ice hockey, so maybe it was the norm because all my friends did too.

  58. And regarding bullying, I have a funny story where back in the 8th grade I tried to step into a situation where a kid was being bullied and I ended up getting my ass kicked badly. Turned out I got more respect because of it as the guy was huge compared to my size. Him and I actually became friends as well as the kid being bullied. Funny how things work out

  59. Interesting to see the subject of ADD and ADHD come up earlier in the comments. My youngest son was diagnosed with ADHD. My wife and I agonized over putting him on medication because we are well aware of how boy behaviour is pathologized.

    It got to the point last year where we were getting notes and emails from his school regarding violence almost every day. It went beyond just boy behaviour. He would get stuck in explosive rages. He lost friends and was very lonely. We tried many things including diet, behaviour modification through reward charting, magnesium supplements, classical music every evening before bed and ensuring he got lots of sleep.

    We finally started him on a medication at the beginning of this school year, and it hasn’t been miraculous, but the drug, coupled with some of the non-medical things I note above, a bit more maturity and an awesome male special needs teacher has made a big difference. The violent incidents are down and this year at school he has friends, and gets invited to birthday parties and play dates which is really importrant for him beause he is a very social kid.

    My point is that there are cases where one might have to go the medication route. I think it is easier if both parents are on the same page. Luckily my wife believes that boys must be allowed to be boys. I think it is important to watch your kid closely and stop the meds if you see any sign of loss of core personality or energy/affect, i.e., the zoned out ritalin zombie kid. Also, don’t make a big deal to the boy about the meds. The kid already feels like something is not right. The last thing he needs is addtional shaming added to his daily dose out in the world.

    Red Pill knowledge in some ways made the decision harder to make – knowing the deck is stacked against boys. But, it also made it easier because such knowledge reinforces how important it is to be allowed to be a boy and it keeps me more attentive to the effects of the meds.

  60. @ wild

    I was diagnosed ADD/ADHD when I was in the 7th grade and i’m 34 years old now. I was continually getting in trouble for causing a ruckus in disrupting classes in school because I was hyperactive. They even purposely gave me first period gym class every single year.

    Perhaps get your son involved in sports, it did wonders for me. I excelled at wrestling and ice hockey and it also took alot of aggression out of me.

  61. I’ve hear people talk that men should band together co-operatively and overthrow the femtocracy. Although it makes perfect sense and is the intuitive response, I’m not sure that this is either realistic or constructive.

    Let’s look at what it is that makes men men. Is it our co-operative nature? Yes, that can be part of it – we work well within organizations, especially hierarchical organizations devoted to a purpose. But one way that we do that is through individual will to personal power. The invisible hand of selfish desire motivates each of us to rise within the organization to our maximum position of power, balanced with our needs for our favorite level of responsibility and free time. The top dogs in our organizations often have an abundance of want for power and responsibility.

    So it isn’t our co-operative nature that gives power to men, after all. It is our individual drives. Some of us express that drive as rogue entrepreneurs, who follow no ones rules and the only team we are beholden to are the teams that we create – teams of employees working for us. Some of us are tradesmen – a unit of labor with no one above or below us. And some of us attach our will to organizations, specializing in a small niche of a greater whole, and through symbiosis becoming greater through association.

    But it isn’t co-operation that is the core of how men succeed. It is the will to power. To individual power. We use systems not because systems are in and of themselves good. Is IBM good? Is General Foods Good? Is Nasa good? We use systems because being an engineer at Nasa is a high prestige job with good pay that we find fun and challenging and that supports our lifestyle. If we’re lucky we are also invested in the outcome – it’s a heck of an achievement to watch a high tech Tonka truck play around in the sand box of mars.

    And so it is with men re-capturing their rightful masculinity socially. It’s not a social affair. You don’t need to send editorial replies to Ms. Magazine. You don’t need see see your masculinity reflected in the popular main stream. You don’t need feminists or females to understand you. You don’t even ultimately need male friendly divorce and child support laws. All you need is the invisible hand. Your own personal will to power. Capitalism works through motivation to the individual, and from there we see group social movements. It’s not top down, it’s bottom up. The masculine imperative is a lonely, personal, individual journey. An individual will to power and freedom and control over ones world.

    Each individual adapting in his best way possible is the men’s movement. We don’t have to overthrow anyone or anything.

    For instance my personal solution is to create my own income. From that springs individuation from social pressures – there is no HR office watching over my facebook profiles and blogging activities. I don’t marry. I have a passport. I keep my identity and finances as anonymous as possible. My assets and income are portable and protected. I’ve isolated myself from the negative effects of the system I was born into, and yet I can still interact with it to whatever depth and degree that I want. I’m not swimming in the influence of others, I’ve created a bubble of my own intent, and live life as I want to.

    If more men, in their own way, manage something similar, then who cares what feministing publishes? Who cares what are the divorce laws if you aren’t even going to marry in the first place? Who cares what child-support/alimony laws are if you are snipped, or if you have a passport and a portable income? The system doesn’t even need to be fought. It just needs to be avoided.

  62. @Team Red RE: “Perhaps get your son involved in sports, it did wonders for me. I excelled at wrestling and ice hockey and it also took alot of aggression out of me.”

    Agreed. That’s another of our plans. We just got him into a martial arts school. He’s loving it, and it seems to focus him and calm him down.

  63. More regarding men working individually towards being masculine, and forgetting about any group movements:

    And if you are a family man – you still have to adapt. You aren’t going to get a social movement going that provides you with all the right conditions in which to plant your seed. Take responsibility and invent your own conditions. Invent your own personal homestead, or plant seeds widely. A social movement is not going to work, so why bother investing mental energy into creating one? Invest your time and attention towards what you can influence. Your environment, through personal power; and your women, through mesmerism and voodoo and sex and wily charismatic charms.

    Identify and break down the problems into manageable parts and come up with solutions that work for you personally. Having children tough what with hoes running off with the pool boy after he wins the lottery? Learn how to create and maintain intense, reverential passion. You want the tax breaks that come with marriage but don’t want to be married? Earn more money. Or find other solutions to the tax man. Any problem has a solution – and it is often the case – no, it is USUALLY the case, that the act of looking for a solution is the creation of a new opportunity.

    Now I’ve mentioned before that I believe that there is an instinct among some men to control the groups sexuality, enforcing a socialist distribution of the resource of pussy. That’s a hard coded instinct in a lot of men. If that’s you, then this will be hard news to here. Forget it. Those instincts are now maladaptive. They don’t work. Do this work by yourself.

  64. “Now I’ve mentioned before that I believe that there is an instinct among some men to control the groups sexuality, enforcing a socialist distribution of the resource of pussy. ”

    Sexual Marxism: from each according to her ability, to each according to his need.

    Women on the other hand are sexual venture capitalists.

    Its the American way.

    Love or leave it!

  65. “Perfect! We see this phenomenon played out even today in our inner cities. You don’t walk into a club on Chicago’s South Side acting like you’re the shit unless you can back it up. Play like Mystery, cocky but without male support, and you will get your shit destroyed.”

    That’s one of the reasons why your women love Black men. They don’t act “cocky/funny” unless they really are.

    The whole “confidence” thing – confident about what exactly? First you need something to be confident about before you can actually BE confident.

    The PUAs call their act “irrational confidence” for a reason – its irrational because they’ve not done anything to be confident about.

  66. @xsplat
    Each individual adapting in his best way possible is the men’s movement. We don’t have to overthrow anyone or anything.

    I agree and identify with all the points you raised. Creating your own independent, self sufficient mobility that allows you to float around the system at your own will is the key to many things, happiness being one of them.
    The internet is a great tool for assisting in making this far easier to achieve.
    The style of work that I have created for myself relies totally on my ability to think yet I benefit from others without having anything to do with them or relying upon them (in a perfectly legal way).

    The link arms uprising might be a feminine way or the dominate group was once enjoyed by men but the pendulum has swung too far women’s way. The solution to try and swing it back collectively is impossible and stupid. Weaker individuals find strength in numbers. Maybe the fairer sex have gained the mechanism of control that suits them by overcoming their weakness through a collective strength. The frame work is covert in keeping with how women operate.

    Good team work is usually individuals all working at the same high level independently – with each working on their piece that makes up the whole.
    Often in a company in a group of workers making up a team one or two in the group do the lions share of producing the effective outcomes (which can often go unnoticed). The group is often all equally given the pat on the back or worse still the fool in charge.

    Unplugging is one thing. Dislodging is another.

  67. I doubt this will be read much because we’ve moved on to the next post, but regardless…

    I agree that as men we are, and should be, individualistic. We don’t organize well. However, the feminine, conformist, parts of our society do. Economically and culturally, they therefore have the potential to strangle us. If this keeps up, do you really think starting your own business will be a viable option in ten years?

    What I advocate is something along the lines of what Glenn Reynolds calls “a pack, not a herd.” We unite for common purposes and disband when they are achieved. I focus on what I care about, so do you, we form alliances, disband, etc.

    Individualistic America beat collectivist Germany and Japan because our individual soldiers were far more creative. We made society. We can retake it.

    These sites are FANTASTIC. I’ve learned so much from Rollo that at times I feel like my head will explode. He’s doing a part of what I advocate. He’s got his role, his insights, he’s providing them and benefitting the rest of us.

    This is a great start, but it’s just a start. We need to take back this country one man at a time. At first it will be painful individual conversions, but we can get the masses back on our side.

    Within a week I’ll flush out my idea more.

  68. “I agree that as men we are, and should be, individualistic. We don’t organize well. However, the feminine, conformist, parts of our society do. Economically and culturally, they therefore have the potential to strangle us.
    If this keeps up, do you really think starting your own business will be a viable option in ten years?”

    Women comprise over 50% of the new small business owners in the USA.

    “Individualistic America beat collectivist Germany and Japan because our individual soldiers were far more creative. We made society. We can retake it.”

    And when exactly was this “individualistic America”?

    ———————————

    SEXUAL MARXISM: the belief that society owes me a wife/girlfriend.

    From each according to her ability, to each according to his need.

  69. I’m a little late to the party here.

    I don’t feel that I am Vichy Male.

    My motivation is entirely different in proposing a re-definition of male consciousness. My idea of re-definition of consciousness is more along the lines of men reading Rational Male and eschewing the Female Imperative conditioning that have been given that does not work in their favor.

    I wish women to get financial advancement and government empowerment so that men can live in manners free of women, that men can get what they really wish from women, mainly to fuck them, and not have to pay the price of slavery that they currently must pay in order to get sex from them.

    I would relish any change in mate decisions that women make that would be based more on a short term mating schedule and had less on long term provisioning. I take a different position that most people in the manosphere and actually wish all women would turn into sluts and refused to marry. I don’t wish to marry any of them. I do not wish to have any children with any them, I don’t want to be life partners with any of them. I just want to fuck them in the bathroom at the disco. And then be done.

    Here, here is an example.

    I was talking with a woman and I said,

    “There is a long history of a majority ethnic or religious group repressing another. When one ethnic group is historically in a position of power for so long in a region and control, even temporarily, shifts to the other group, the members of group no longer in control will rarely accept the authority of the new power group. It was a failure of American Intelligence not to predict violence between Sunni and Shia Muslims in Irag. The Shia would have electoral advantage yet the historical positon of Sunnis, anywhere in Arabia, had been one of control from a structural position. They were the government, not just under Sadam, but all through out the history of the region. In no way would the Sunni accept Shia control without resistance and armed ….

    And the woman interrupted, just cut me off, and said,

    “I was at Jeannie’s baby shower and M—- (Some Iranian woman’s name I can’t remember) was there. She’s our friend from Iran. She said ‘Oh, I was so worried that Ali (the husband) might have cancer so I just ate and ate. And now I’m fat’. And I said ‘Oh no, M—, you look so pretty and trim.’ She’s so pretty you know.”

    And I just walked away. My first thought was “What the fuck does that woman from Iran have to do with this conversation?” But what’s the fucking point. Just get away from them and be happier.

    I do not in any way advocate a redefinition of masculinity that assumes a more feminine stance but rather I wish a further acceptance of masculinity in its more pure form and that men reject the conditioning of social cooperation, of subordination of truly masculine tendencies in acceptance of the Feminine Imperative.

    I say let boys be boys in the most mannish kind of way to the point that there is no reconciliation between what women wish men to be and the way that men truly are. And that men be allowed to be more separate from women and live their lives without the permanent bondage of being legally paired to a woman. I want separate lines in the grocery store. Separate sides of a town. Girls town and Boys Town.

    The whole reason of me saying that I am a feminist is designed to be a thorn in the side of women to show that there will be unintended side affects to their agenda, that they can not have their cake and eat it too. I’m not playing their fucking anymore and I am actively proselytizing that other men get other their shit and not play either.

    By them being able to free themselves from commitment to men because they are better able to have society meet their needs also infers the reverse, that men are now, also, freed from women by society in such a way that men may get those things they truly and only wish from women, pussy. Their is nothing else they have that I want. And that society provides for the costs that men had traditionally paid in the past directly in trade with the woman. She got his financial support in exchange for her opening her legs to him.

    Now if there could be some pussy tax that I must pay, and that all men collectively pay this pussy tax, some version of social security where every paycheck, a withholding is performed. And that money is used to collectively pay bitches for doing the bitch things that bitches wish to do and leave me out of the equation, then I am for it. Spread out the cost across all men over the course of all of our working lives. Then bitches can go to bitch town and be bitches together and stay the fuck away from me.

    I think that marriage is idiocy for men and the life of a man is far better served in promoting his own goals and desires. Let bitches raise children and let me be a man that travels the world and fucks women, that is allowed to pursue my goals and my desires without having to pay the price of the slavery of marriage in order to get sex.

    The college years are considered the time of highest sexual activity because that it is the one time that young people are free and unattached in the same place. Then little by little, couples begin to pair off until at some point, the vast majority of adults are off in pairs and those few single people left are compelled to also pair off because of the scarcity of potential partners and Female Imperative dictates that “Old Man in the Club” is loser or immature because he hasn’t matured or no woman wants him.

    So if nobody ever paired off, at least no men ever felt compelled to pair off by both the social conditioning that the LTR is ultimate and also by age and lack of opportunity, then all of the women would be available for potential recreational pairings for men. Then men could truly do what biology designed men to do, fuck women, as many women as the man can possibly fuck.

    And a lot of this is based on my appraisal of women and where society is going to go in the coming years.

    Women despise men. That Slate article that Rollo put as a link on Dalrock about the Lesbian rejecting marriage, contained one of the main tenets that women believe about men and marriage, that marriage is such a good deal for men because men gain a mother to take care of them.

    And in analyzing the US Census data Dalrock placed on his blog last week about “Never married Women” by age and ethnic group, I saw that it is women that are rejecting marriage.

    And they doing so for 3 reasons.

    One, the men are not meeting the hypergamistic requirements financially that women demand from men. And being single is good deal for women. She gets cash and prizes from the Informal Prostitution that constitutes “dating”. And she gets all the validation she needs being the “object of desire”.

    Two, Society is meeting the needs that women have without the necessity of marriage.

    Three, Those alpha men that those women wish to marry do not wish to marry them or any women. Despite what woman may say or think about marriage, all of those bitches would marry Brad Pitt tomorrow if he asked. But he didn’t. So she’s waiting.

    Most men are reacting to this with pissing and moaning about the way it is going down.

    And I say stop it. It is really is something good for men and not this negative horrible thing that a lot of men spit out such vitriol on blogs.

    When I reflect on the high moments, the best moments in my life, none of them had practically anything to do with being a husband.

    It was walking the streets of Medellin, of Lima, of Manchester, of Madrid alone, single, with the possibility of the night energizing me and pushing me. It was seeing Angus Young and Bon Scott in ACDC on a hot summer night in 1978 before they got famous and there were only 200 people at the show. I stood on a chair 15 feet from what would become one of the greatest rock bands ever. Of seeing David Bowie from the third row. And it was exactly the same sensation being in Envigado Stadium in the VIP section, 25 feet away from Wishin and Yandel as Reggeton concert in Colombia. It had nothing to do with being young to enjoy a moment like that, it had everything to do with being THERE and not being married to some bitch. It was pulling back the covers in bed at 54 years of age and seeing the perfect body of Diana Rincon Salazar, a Paisa woman with over $70,000 in cosmetic surgery to create the what was the perfect female form. She was the object of desire of any man that saw her, and I owned that bitch. Yes, at 54 years of age, I owned a woman that trumped almost every other woman I ever had and could make her orgasm at will and say “Si, Papi, Si Papi” while she having it. It was fucking Tammy Gilbert in a suite a Hyatt Regency in Austin on Acid (LSD). It was the give and take as a software developer, with my workmates, other men, at 11 at night as we pushed the envelope of technology. It was marching back to Mainside on Parris Island as a 3rd phase Marine recruit, in full battle gear after completing infantry training at Elliots Beach, knowing I was going to graduate from Marine Corps Boot Camp. It was being on the football field at practice in 100 degree weather in Texas and watching the sun go down. It was leaving the classroom after an exam in The College of Engineering at The University of Texas knowing I did well on the test, in some of the hardest abstract subjects that men could possibly learn.

    Every one of the above had every fucking thing do with having a dick and being a man, living as a man, fucking as a man, thinking as a man, and being a man, “being” being “being” in the most Martin Heidegger, Rene Descartes meaning of the word.

    And none of these had anything to do with being a husband and had everything to do with being a man. The birth of my children, of being in the delivery room was good, but I was a spectator and the impact of the trap and the responsibility tempered the moment.

    So my position is that if men can have more these moments then more power to whatever makes that possible. If all the bitches get to leave work at 3pm to take care of children, then good. That means they are gone and in my experience,. the real work of developing software, the shit where the rubber met the road, occurred when there were no women around. Work was a happier place after 3pm when they left. If insurance pays for their weirdo healthcare needs that those dripping, drooling, excreting alien lifeforms for bodies that women have require special consideration from insurance and from government. Fine, then I ain’t paying for directly with my slavery in the idiocy of marriage.

    Why fight to for something that won’t return regardless what you do and how you bitch. Especially when the thing that has come, and is coming, is your freedom.

    All that is necessary is that you get the right attitude and consciousness about it. And the right attitude is not any fucking Hugo Schegma Build a Better Suck Up Beta. The right attitude is Game. The right consciousness is what you read on Rational Male so you see through the bullshit and Don’t Believe The Hype.

    The right action is Build A Better Alpha and Live Free with those options that you create in your life and not to fail prey to any prior social conditioning that suits the Female Imperative.

    It’s gonna be better for you. I promise. I’m living it right now.

  70. “Perfect! We see this phenomenon played out even today in our inner cities. You don’t walk into a club on Chicago’s South Side acting like you’re the shit unless you can back it up. Play like Mystery, cocky but without male support, and you will get your shit destroyed.”

    That’s one of the reasons why your women love Black men. They don’t act “cocky/funny” unless they really are.

    The whole “confidence” thing – confident about what exactly? First you need something to be confident about before you can actually BE confident.

    lol’d at this it’s so true I always laugh when i see some propped up trustafarian gets frustrated when he sees that riding on his grandfathers handouts and status won’t get him the pussy he wants. i get a deep satisfaction knowing that said trustafarians go home and rant on the internet about thugs with loose women that he didn’t want anyway loool talk about hamsters

  71. Jeff Berg, the white boyz of the Manosphere want to bring about a utopian state of sexual marxism “from each according to her ability, to each according to his need” because they are afraid of competition from the global smorgesboard of exotic men.

    The days when Hugh Heffner complained about “women thwarting the free love ways of men” are over. Women have completely out competed men in “free love ways” and now they are wishing women would go back to thwarting free love.

    “Yes, at 54 years of age, I owned a woman that trumped almost every other woman I ever had and could make her orgasm at will and say “Si, Papi, Si Papi” while she having it.”

    Pix or it didn’t happen.

    “Separate sides of a town. Girls town and Boys Town. ”

    You do know what happened in sex segregated Boys Town, don’t you? It went all the way to the top (Washington DC).

    Read here;
    http://franklinscandal.com/franklinscandal_boystown.html

    Watch here;

  72. @Jeff Berg

    The reason you see black guys swooping women of any race is that black men aren’t taught to be supplicating to women and don’t display weak submissive behavior.

    However, I don’t see this as really an issue of race but one of social class. If you look at lower class whites, the ones that have some type of social IQ clean up on pussy as well. They don’t buy into the feminist bullshit as much as SWPL crowd. Ask the biker or poor musician if he has low pussy ratio and he would just laugh.

    Also it’s not black guys in mass that get with hot white women. It’s the savvy ones that are the cream of the crop. They make it out of the ghettos and actually run in a social circle that has these women in it. These guys have the drive and/or skills necessary to make it to college either through athletics or academics or social smarts. Once in college, the black guy that has ingrained masculinity is cleaning up while the ironic snarky SWPL magina is smoldering in the corner with envy.

    All things being equal, if white men weren’t feminized through SWPL culture, most black guys wouldn’t have a chance because I believe that races gravitate towards each other as a general rule unless there is a significant power imbalance. I belive that marriage statistics support this notion as well.

    Personally, if black guys bang white women because they have natural game more power to them. That’s the price us white guys pay for teaching our sons to be effimenate betas.

    There is also an imbalance in the black community in regards to the black women. These women that should be nubian princesses have turned to into masculine fat she-beasts.

  73. Uh, what … sure, there’s a lot of parasitic growth on top of the basic concepts these days, but men organize and cooperate exceedingly well when we feel like it.

    (Speaking of that, I wonder how far the femocracy would get if there weren’t dutiful vichy collaborators discreetly fixing the inevitable problems.)

  74. “Also it’s not black guys in mass that get with hot white women. It’s the savvy ones that are the cream of the crop. They make it out of the ghettos….”

    The “mass” of black men are not ghetto. Do you even know any black guys at all?

    _____

    SEXUAL MARXISM:

    The belief that Obama owes the Manosphere an assembly line of factory made girlfriends.

  75. “In all, 27.4 percent of blacks were living in poverty.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/13/number-of-americans-livin_n_960345.html

    I’m sorry, 1/3 of blacks live in poverty. For the blacks that are in the middle class and up. According to wikipedia which I know it’s the absolute best source, but :

    “27.3% of black households earn an income between $25,000 and $50,000, 15.2% earn between $50,000 and $75,000, 7.6% earn between $75,000 and $100,000, and 9.4% earn more than $100,000.[6]”

    So roughly, 32.2 percent of black guys can run in the social circles where the good looking fit white women are. I include that number because it’s the sum percentage of black guys that would be from a college educated background.

    The black men I know that are good with these women are the college educated ones or somewhat similar. I don’t know of any T-Dog macking on White Princess Jesscia.

  76. “The black men I know that are good with these women are the college educated ones or somewhat similar. I don’t know of any T-Dog macking on White Princess Jesscia.”

    Duh. Assortive mating. Humans generally tend to mate with their socio-economic equals as well as within 2 points of each other on the looks scale, and well within 10 years age wise of each other.

  77. Men aren’t supposed to be “emotional” is just another aspect of following the female imperative. You think a guy having a public breakdown over a woman divorcing him and taking away his kids makes women HAPPY? You think they don’t approve 1000% of the other men who GET THAT MAN ANIMAL TO SHUT UP. “Not being emotional” is just another way of GETTING THAT MAN ANIMAL TO SHUT UP. And it works real good to.


  78. To build on that, I’ve observed that in families, it’s almost always the mothers that favor the screw-ups and the dads who hold their feet to the fire. Extend this to the workplace, the classroom, and beyond and you have a hugely dysfunctional society — which is what we’re seeing now.

    Or maybe their sons are the only males in their lives they feel safe treating like *bleep*. Not saying mothers can’t be totally selfish, but a father will take pride in kicking his sons when they are up, kicking them when they are down, kicking them all around. He is just trying to “toughen them up” you see. Later, when this is not “appreciated” as it should be this will cause much surprise.

  79. I think we need a corollary to Sailer’s Rule of Female Journalism.
    “The most passionate columns written by male feminists amount to demands that traditional masculinity be subverted so that come the revolution, they’re considered more masculine.”

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