The Proposal

 

The above scene is from the Netflix Original Series, House of Cards (season 1, episode 6). I had a friend recently suggest the series to me because, as he said, “he knew I’d get into it.”

My professional life generally doesn’t leave me the time get into anything on TV, but I’ll admit to picking up the first six episodes of House of Cards and wanting to watch more of it. I’m not going to get into the details as to why I like it (you can probably guess), but I have thus far been impressed with the 48 Laws of Power aspect of it. I apologize for the quality of the clip, but it was the best I could dig up on youtube.

However, I watched this scene a day ago and I knew I’d have to drop a quick post about it. For those unfamiliar with the story I’ll give you an outline; Steve, the man in the hospital bed, is the former security detail for Frank Underwood, a U.S. congressman and an archetypal Alpha power broker on Capital Hill. After 8 years as the personal security guard of the Underwoods he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and is now on his death bed.

The woman, Claire, is Frank Underwood’s wife and an equally influential lobbyist (yes, I realize her story changes) and political figure. Steve texts Claire to come to his bedside (after sending his dutiful wife away) for what amounts to one of the most pathetic Beta male – ONEitis (death bed) confessions I’ve witnessed in a long time.

I won’t spoil the rest of the scene by relating Claire’s response, but I thought this was one of the most honest portrayals of not just the ugly reality of hypergamy and women’s underlying motives in optimizing it, but also the (in some cases life-long) idealism, to the point of pathology, Betas will endure ONEitis and to the point of death, fail to ever grasp the truth of that idealism. Women love opportunistically, men love idealistically and this scene is a harsh reminder of that.

Be warned, this is a brutal and cruel scene, but the truth often is. Sometimes cruelty is what’s necessary to wake men up to the truth, and hopefully before they’re on their death bed.


100 responses to “The Proposal

  • jf12

    As a “solution” to hypergamy, alpha-ing up is almost Catch22, though. “Go ahead and grab it” only works if she already perceives you to be alpha.

  • dcllcd

    That was a powerful scene.
    I am glad I watched it.
    Rollo thanks for sharing this. -d

  • Wanderer

    You might be able to do an entire series inspired by House of Cards. It’s entirely about the inner motives of sex and power.

    I acutely remember watching this scene for the first time. I remember how pathetic I thought Steve was. Claire is a particularly interesting character. She lives overtly in the show what you say most women are up to covertly in real life.

  • Omega Man

    That was brutal. The manginas, beta orbiters and omegas of this world should watch this and despair. If this doesn’t arose them from their torpor then nothing will.

  • Badpainter

    Claire is a succubus.

  • Modern Day Pricus

    Damn Rollo. You must be on a creative streak. Lol I am still on the comment section of “Owned Sex”. Yes slow I know but, yeah. Anyway keep up the great work. I can’t wait to read this. Your blog has inspired me to focus on my blog that I started last year. I have 7 posts done in less than 2 weeks. Thanks again for the great work.

    And yeah, Clare is cold blooded as can be.

  • Steve H

    “Is this what you wanted? Is this how you wanted it?”

    Men are not necessarily after the pleasure and physical release of sex and orgasm.

    Or – let me put it this way:

    BETA males are not necessarily after the pleasure and physical release of sex and orgasm.

    ALPHA males will take pleasure, sex, and orgasm in any way it gets them off, thank you very much. ALPHA males, thus, have no issue around paying for sex. Because they’re not out to prove anything.

  • jf12

    So, who wrote this dialogue? Sam Forman?

  • LiveFearless

    Claire Underwood: You know what Francis said to me when he proposed? I remember his exact words. He said, ‘Claire, if all you want is happiness, say no. I’m not gonna give you a couple of kids and count the days until retirement. I promise you freedom from that. I promise you’ll never be bored.’ You know, he was the only man – and there were a lot of others who proposed – but he was the only one who understood me. He didn’t put me on some pedestal. He knew that I didn’t want to be adored or coddled. So he took my hand and put a ring on it. Because he knew I’d say yes.

    More than 100,000,000 men in the U S do not understand that content. It will remain this way as long as the importance of INFLUENCE continues to be ignored.

  • Pill

    Don’t bother with season two. They turned it into a rainbow festival as is their wont when they used up the original material from the British original.

  • jf12

    re: on women saying one thing and doing another. Perhaps the most galling aspect of women not knowing what they want is that they think they do.

  • JQ

    Damn! That was a powerful scene. I wish I could show it in the office to those beta orbiters. When I see them I realize how flooded we are with that type of men. I feel like red pillers are a super small percentage. This video, I need to save it into to the smartphone but I do not think I will forget it.What did she said? he understood me; he didn’t put me in a pedestal; he knew I did not wanted to be cuddled; he is a man who knows how to get what he wants.

    That is some game basics right there.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    @Pill, that’s what I’m getting on twitter.

  • Philalethes

    Brutal, indeed.

    “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

  • UrbanMeyer

    Can’t believe I missed the tie in to hypergamy when I first watched this episode, good spot.

  • Seraph

    Had I watched this pre-Red Pill, it would have still been a brutal scene, but I would not fully understand the truth depths of it. I swear when I first saw it I told myself it must have been written who was Red Pill aware, especially when she mentioned the pedestal.

    Watching it being Red Pill aware, it literally does make you cringe. You fully understand how pathetic the guy is, not only for carrying that torch for so long, unrequited, but more importantly to then BLURT IT OUT WHEN YOU ARE DYING?!

    WTF?

    What’s the point, buddy? You unburdened yourself of your special, pure love?

    Give it to Claire…was she cruel to be honest with him? Or should she have played up the “Oh, that is so sweet…” angle or some other horse shit?

    While I agree Season 2 has not maintained the quality, and jumped the shark a bit with a couple of plot plots, I disagree that it is not worth watching. Some elements of it continue to point out the Red Pill truth.

    For instance, there is a scene in it which helps further highlight how pathetic THIS one is. Without giving it away, let’s just say that Claire fondling this guy made it clear that had he had the stones to “take what he wanted” she might have in fact banged him. Claire would have respected it, and may have responded to it.

    Another example is the relationship between Zoe and the reporter who has been mooning over her. She displays some major hypergamy, over her own reservations, and he is shown to be a Beta through and through. Also hard to watch being Red Pill aware.

  • jf12

    “Just get it” means molon labe.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    When I watched this it reminded me of how life-consuming a blue pill mindset can be for men.

    I’ve written about this before, but I’ve had 66 year old men sob to me about how they’ve spent their lives trying to find some way to please their unresponsive wives, or about some woman they new from 30 or so years ago who was the ONE that never requited his honest, heartfelt desire for.

    Being a Beta, blue pill, AFC isn’t just about high school crushes or rebuffed 20-something’s marriage proposals – it’s life-quality issue.

  • walawala

    Inspirational. I needed this today when I was in the middle of my own sudden pangs of a nostalgic oneitis that hit from time to time. I haven’t acted on them for months and this pathetic scene is a good reminder why one should let sleeping dogs lie.

    A few things strike me on this on a broader level: some things are better left unsaid. Talking it out isn’t always going to lead to some broader understanding with a woman and in fact may only lead to even further pain or betrayal.

    Putting your own needs first isn’t a turn off and when women call you out on it, it’s generally a shit-test or signal you’re doing it right.

    Male/female sexual motivations are counter-intuitive.

    This scene sums it up so well.

  • Bluepillprofessor

    Watch and weep. Women DEMAND, EXPECT, PINE for the man who will put them on a pedestal and then when he does they will despise him with every fiber of their being.

  • Seraph

    “Being a Beta, blue pill, AFC isn’t just about high school crushes or rebuffed 20-something’s marriage proposals – it’s life-quality issue.”

    Ahhhhhhh-Yup!

    Married, family, good (not great) well-paying career, yadda-yadda…and I had what might have been an existential crisis about 18 months ago. Already having become aware of the Red Pill a couple of years earlier, I then truly began to realize how little of my own desires in a lot of areas were not being met.

    Further, I realized how regardless of the fact I am doing better than many others, I pissed away A LOT of opportunity due to Blue pill mindset over the years.

    Still struggling with all that, combined with the difficulty of truly moving past a Beta mindset in many ways. There’s progress, but Jeezus, miles to go yet! Being already settled down seems to make it all the harder, but maybe that is just me.

  • Steve H

    Different direction: the ‘loving’ thing for her to do would entail her saying something like this: “I’ve always thought you were special. I think you’re right, even though I didn’t realize it ’til now – that we’ve had a special bond. Goodbye.”

    That is what I would say (or perhaps something even a bit warmer) to any female acquaintance of mine who said that to me on her deathbed. It would simply be a matter of extending kindness. Whether male or female, at that point – a person is all they will ever be, and the end is imminent. A modicum of compassion, I believe, is due the bluest-pill man imaginable (or an equivalently naive woman) at this point.

    The notion that ‘letting you know my truth’ would trump what I wrote above – chilling stuff. Or to put it another way – the stuff of miserable, awful human beings whose lives are not worth living.

    Is this something women are more prone to do? I can’t answer that, but it is the height of something far more malignant than narcissism.

  • Seraph

    “I’ve written about this before, but I’ve had 66 year old men sob to me about how they’ve spent their lives trying to find some way to please their unresponsive wives, or about some woman they new from 30 or so years ago who was the ONE that never requited his honest, heartfelt desire for.”

    You wrote about differing rule books in a post (and believe your book) to explain the issues men were struggling with. Thinking on it even today, I think I made some progress in realizing that while there had been certain rules I had operated by, they were no longer applicative no matter my feelings on it and I had to accept it as it is.

    Shrug and move on.

    The old system served a purpose but now has crumbled, and a new one is taking shape. There is a flux in the system, and everyone is looking for ways to adapt to their advantage. Call it evolution, if you like, because if I understand Darwin correctly, ultimately adaptation is the name of the game.

    Yeah, it takes romance out of it, but when you look at it from a distance, you realize the rather savage and cruel nature of genetic competition applies to even us. Especially to us, otherwise how did we get to the top of the heap?

    Nature is a cruel bitch, and she tests everything creature on the planet everyday for its survival, as and individual and as a genetic patent.

    We think we’re immune?

    When you begin to look at it like that, as harsh as it becomes, I think you understand it much more. Being shit-tested, for example, is just one way for Nature to slap you upside the head and announce she’s present and she’s not playing favorites, cupcake.

  • IllimitableMan

    You want another show demonstrating the 48 laws of power/dark triad at work?

    There’s a new show called “Power” (http://www.starz.com/originals/power) that 50 cent aka Curtis Jackson executive produced, now 50 is very relevant in dark triad related study due to his upbringing, where he started at and where’s he at now, he’s probably one of the most prolific and successful DTs in modern media and an RP role model for anyone wanting to follow the DT path to success, orphaned by a single mother who died when he about 8 or 9, having no college education and selling coke when he was in school he’s worth over a hundred million now. He also worked with Robert Greene on 50th Law which for those who don’t know is basically the 48 laws from the perspective of the streets.

    In “Power” the protagonist’s wife in particular is very interesting, she’s trying to keep tabs on her dark triad alpha husband (Omari Hardwick – Cocaine wholesaler) who she has a kid with, by seducing his driver (young 18 year old kid) and using that leverage over the driver to get information about the movements of her husband. It shows female manipulation, their untrusting nature, how they will abuse their sexuality to get what they want (she winds the window down in the limo numerous times, strips, and start masturbating while the driver watches, then when she’s finished she licks her lips, looks him dead in the eye in the mirror and does the window back up – that’s how she goes about seducing him.)

    She also has a very red pill conversation with her mother where her mother says because her husband is a “drug dealer” (crude terminology for someone way above street level) that she’ll never see a dime if she chooses to divorce him because drug money isn’t declared to the IRS. The protagonists partner and best friend Tommy is another dark triad but a different shade of DT, where “Ghost” (that’s Omari’s character name) is what I’d call a high-functioning highly intelligent machiavellian, Tommy is more of your loose cannon dark tetrad, sadistic, sets one dude on fire and then puts him out with a fire extinguisher as a method of torture. He is more violent and less intelligent and is really more about the glory of violence in and of itself rather than using it as a methodology only as and when required.

    I’ve already given away a lot of spoilers for anyone who hasn’t seen the show, but I can’t sing its praises without giving examples of why it’s worth watching. In terms of observing DT and machiavellian dynamics you can tell this is the brainchild of someone who’s seen some fucked up shit (50 cent – curtis jackson) because a lot of the shit on there is too gritty and real, it’s incredibly believable shit. Check it.

    If you follow 50 and his projects, watch his interviews and etc, he also gives very RP advice. For example, I saw one interview of him years ago talking about how important lifting is for motivation and remaining focussed. In another interview he talks about how you have to be the person with the least fear in the room when in negotiations and how he’s always confident in people’s inability to hurt him as nothing could hurt him as much as losing his mother and being alone afterwards as a kid did. The guy is a pure street-bred natural. He also has some ridiculous superficial charm. A cursory glance of his instagram reveals massive narcissism. If I met the guy today and he told me he was a high functioning sociopath I wouldn’t be surprised. His show and he are both excellent case studies for people interested in this area of TRP.

  • Will

    Funny I was home with the flu and I watched an episode of the original Star Trek, “Amok Time”, before the red pill this would have flew right by me,

    “SPOCK: Explain.
    T’PRING: Specify.
    SPOCK: Why the challenge, and why you chose my captain as your champion.
    T’PRING: Stonn wanted me, I wanted him.
    SPOCK: I see no logic in preferring Stonn over me.
    T’PRING: You have become much known among our people, Spock. Almost a legend. And as the years went by, I came to know that I did not want to be the consort of a legend. But by the laws of our people, I could only divorce you by the kal-if-fee. There was also Stonn, who wanted very much to be my consort, and I wanted him. If your Captain were victor, he would not want me, and so I would have Stonn. If you were victor you would free me because I had dared to challenge, and again I would have Stonn. But if you did not free me, it would be the same. For you would be gone, and I would have your name and your property, and Stonn would still be there.
    SPOCK: Logical. Flawlessly logical.
    T’PRING: I am honoured.
    SPOCK: Stonn. She is yours. After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.”

    now I know for what it was hypergamy.

  • gunslingergregi

    I promise you’ll never be bored””””’

    that’s a joke though even I could not promise a bitch that
    never promise a fucking thing you can’t back up
    if you love a bitch you can promise you love her and will always love her but nothing else

  • gunslingergregi

    strike that the only thing you can promise is you will get bored of her
    he he he

  • jf12

    This belongs under Trophies, but I’m lazy.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2014/07/dear_prudence_how_can_i_have_sex_as_a_fiftysomething_woman.html

    It never ceases to amaze me that older women with libido problems who don’t find themselves turn-on-able by men their own age think they have a real shot at younger men over younger women, and routinely disbelieve that younger women are actually finding older men attractive.

    Even when the hamster needs a cane or a wheelchair, it still gets around.

  • Tenno

    It always baffles me how deep some people are willing to look into a work of fiction, especially when it’s a pop fiction, more so if it’s a TV show. To me it’s nothing more than an entertainment.

    Yes, I could see the alpha in Frank, the chump in Steve and the hypergamy in Claire but in all likelihood the authors had nothing so sophisticated in mind when they wrote it.

    The Underwoods here look like a sort of villains (haven’t seen the show, just an initial impression). And villains are most usually outcasts, to be proven wrong and defeated, not to be identified with and taken cues from. This scene is just another demonstration of their wickedness. Nothing special. Wouldn’t pay any particular attention to it.

  • JackBlack23

    @Steve H

    “BETA males are not necessarily after the pleasure and physical release of sex and orgasm.”

    I concur — in my beta days, I didn’t understand how I was able to use my looks and game to hook up with girls relatively easily but still could not make them LOVE me …

  • Softek

    One of my friends almost committed suicide after his wife and mother of his children of 18 years filed for divorce. He had the gun to his head, and the only thing that stopped him was looking at a picture of his kids. And she waited until 2 weeks after his dad died to do it, so she could kick him while he was down. He had no idea why she wanted a divorce, and he said he saw a side of her he never thought existed. Fortunately he got a good lawyer and he got custody of the kids, he got to keep the house, and he didn’t have to pay any alimony. The lawyer he got was like a bulldog. He told him that he had to stop loving his wife, and realize that if he didn’t see her as the enemy, he was going to lose everything. Had to think of it like his wife was dead, forget all the years they spent together and how much he loved her — she’s the enemy. At one point her attorney was actually crying because they were losing so badly. The only argument his wife had in court was “He should’ve known.” That didn’t hold up very well.

    His lawyer also said he’d been in practice for around 40 years or more and he’d only seen one other case that was as bad as this, where there wasn’t any clear reason. He was never abusive to her, never cheated on her, and yet when she filed for divorce she literally wanted everything. She wanted to completely destroy him and pick the meat off his bones. In her words, “When I’m done with you, you’ll be penniless and living in your car.”

    One of his other friends had open heart surgery (or something similar — it was very serious, I don’t know if he had to have stents put in or whatever), and his wife waited until he went in for that to send him the divorce papers. The doctor plopped them down on his chest a while after the operation was done and he was in recovery.

    Unbelievable.

    I’m processing an LJBF I just got a few days ago from a girl I’ve known for about 10 years. Had many one-itises before her, and we always kept in touch but it was never anything major. She didn’t really become a one-itis for me until the past 8 months, because we would hang out regularly, talk every day, and I was so sure that because of everything we had in common and how well we got along, how much fun we’d have when we were together and how she was constantly flirting with me, it was a “sure thing.” I thought that we’d be perfect together in a relationship, it felt like there was so much chemistry and I thought she was giving me so many signs.

    So I asked her out and then she gave me the “just friends” line. I’ve had so many blue pill fantasies before and I’ve been rejected so many times, but for whatever reason, this time was the most devastating. Probably because with all the other girls, it was mostly a fantasy in my headBefore I found RM I also was lost in LDR’s — afraid of rejection, so that’s all I pursued and all I ever had, and I only ever physically hooked up with one of the girls I was in an LDR with.

    This girl lives very close to me and so I was excited that for the first time in my life I’d have a shot at a genuine relationship where I could actually physically be with a girl on a regular basis and have her as a part of my life.

    All the covert bullshit, all the ulterior motives — I’ve read about all the sexual strategies on here, but I had to see it for myself. It really pisses me off to have been in a situation where I was played like that, and thought it was genuine. Why would she joke about the idea that we should split a studio together, why would she make sexual innuendos, why would she flirt with me, why would she compliment me on how I look, or tell me how much she likes spending time with me, and literally all I did to fuck that up was tell her I wanted to go out with her —

    — I see now that all that internal questioning and uncertainty is the disease itself. Thinking of how “special” she was and how “unique” of an opportunity this was, how I lost the “big fish” — I’m caring way too much and putting her on a pedestal, even though I thought I wasn’t. I desperately wanted to be in a relationship with her, and I can see now that I was doomed from the moment I felt that desperation *and believed it had any value beyond tormenting myself.*

    It was a lost cause the whole time. I’ll never forget the day Rollo wrote a comment after I’d written something that said, “If you’re afraid of losing her, you’ve already lost her.”

    I kind of got it. But now I really get it, and it’s a total kick in the balls.

    It’s just a headfuck to think I’ve been that delusional for so many years. I have memories of her going back 10 years; I never let her know how I felt until a few days ago. I’d attached so much emotional importance and significance to the ‘connection’ we had, and took all her signs and hints so completely seriously — I was convinced this was a sure thing and all I had to do was push for a little more, and then WHAM — right in the nuts.

    And of course, she doesn’t care. It was never anything more to her. She was just being covert and manipulative and running her sexual strategy program perfectly, probably without even being aware of it. The flirting meant nothing to her, telling me how much she liked me and liked spending time with me meant nothing to her, it was all just a game that I was too much of a chump to be aware of, and I was stupid enough to put all my eggs in one basket.

    I’d like to think that not all women are like this, but all I can believe is that when it comes to sex and relationships, all women are clinical sociopaths. They are physiologically incapable of empathy. That’s basically what solipsism is, after all. Their “love” is a hollow act that’s completely dependent on the man fulfilling her subconscious criteria for a suitable partner — do you fit the stereotype of what she’s sexually attracted to? Do you fill the role? Have the right clothes and say the right lines?

    It has nothing to do with the man for who he really, actually is as an individual human being. Whatever he offers to her, however much they have in common, however well they get along, however great a relationship they should be able to have together, means absolute jack shit if you don’t fit the stereotype.

    I can’t give advice to anyone because apparently I’m just starting to become truly unplugged. This was the last girl in my life that I’d invested so much in, and I think it took the shock of having so much hope and desire for TEN YEARS completely shattered on the floor…to realize what a chump and what a sucker I’ve been.

    Any time you put any woman on a pedestal and are afraid of losing her, or really, really crave being with her, you’ve already lost. You are only tormenting yourself by not recognizing your neediness and weakness as neediness and weakness. It isn’t love. It’s a fantasy in your head.

    I didn’t really want to believe everything I read here, and I thought this girl and me could be an exception to the rule. Had to see for myself, so I did. There’s no escaping reality when the object you’ve built your delusions around is the one who shatters them. That’s a true wakeup call.

    I’m just lucky I had it with this girl instead of some girl I was married to. I have had some pretty serious mental problems in my life and sometimes wanting to commit suicide is a hair trigger thing for me. My friend I mentioned got massive amounts of pussy growing up, was one of the most ‘alpha’ guys I could imagine in every other way, always in a good, positive mood, always so confident and self-assured —

    — so for someone like that to consider committing suicide while going through a divorce speaks volumes about how soul crushingly painful and devastating it is. God knows what I would’ve done if I was in his situation with the mental problems I had.

    He’s doing a lot better now, and just went back to his old ways of (more or less) pumping and dumping. He told me once that one of his goals in life is to outlive his ex wife so he can piss on her grave.

    She’s tried to contact him years since to try to apologize and make amends. He’s never answered the phone once and refuses to have anything to do with her. She ended up losing her job and needed a place to stay…wrote him a letter asking him if he needed a roommate.

    He didn’t get back to her. He told me his first thought was “Are you fucking kidding me?” And he just laughed. Basically, what the fuck planet are you living on? I say good for him, but it still sucks. Also goes to show how delusional women in general are and how they basically feel zero responsibility to hold themselves accountable for their actions. That you can shit all over someone and try to destroy their life and then expect them to forgive you just because you reached out to them.

    There are two words to use in that situation, and they’re not “Happy Birthday.”

  • Jokanaan

    In the UK original and in one of the books by Michael Dobbs on which House of Cards was based (Dobbs himself served under Thatcher), an affair is implicit between the politician’s wife and the bodyguard.

    The unrequited lust in the US series is an interesting twist.

  • Badpainter

    Given some of the things that happen in season 2 it’s not outside the realm of possibility that Claire actively lead Steve on and may have been previously physically involved with him short of sex.

  • VRW

    concur with Tenno. get a grip fuckers. TV..reality…TV…reality…TV…reality

  • Seraph

    Tenno and VRW…

    “concur with Tenno. get a grip fuckers. TV..reality…TV…reality…TV…reality”

    “It always baffles me how deep some people are willing to look into a work of fiction, especially when it’s a pop fiction, more so if it’s a TV show. To me it’s nothing more than an entertainment.”

    Ah, huh…

    So…Fiction, however well written never, ever, EVER illustrates and illuminates actual real-life concepts regarding human behavior and existence.

    Is that your contention?

    “Yes, I could see the alpha in Frank, the chump in Steve and the hypergamy in Claire but in all likelihood the authors had nothing so sophisticated in mind when they wrote it.”

    Right. They just stumbled upon it, and were oblivious to all the concepts like hypergamy even though they wrote it so well you could see those concepts easily.

    Interesting concept yourself, there.

  • Gunter Brus

    Why don’t we just start a war and kill off half the male population. That’ll set us straight for a generation or two and force women to take the risk, do the initiating, or die alone. It halfway makes you wonder if that isn’t what the function of war is, and if men compete for social status to win better mates, given female sexual power in their role as the one who decides which males breed, then it’s probably the real origin of capitalism, property relations, colonialism, nation states, slavery, and genocide.

  • scratche2013

    @Gunter Brus

    Before learning about evo-psych and hypergamy I was really into politics and was passionate about trying to spread the truth about the corruption and lies being sold to people. Now I don’t give a fuck about people because all the bullshit comes from men attempting to deal with hypergamy and that shit is never going away.

    As long as females are hypergamous there will always be war, greed, and a whole slew of terrible behavior. If women refused to fuck immoral men there wouldn’t be any immoral men. For the first time in history women in the U.S. have the financial security and independence to have an enormous impact on the culture of this country simply by choosing to fuck moral men. That is all it would take to change the world dramatically.

    It will never happen. They will always lust after men with power, fame, looks, etc. That is just the way the world is. If there were a drug to kill the sex instinct of either sex it would lead to world peace.

  • LiveFearless

    @Seraph It’s all entertainment to them.

    That’s why they are sure it’s just fine to spend their lives consuming it. They’re, of course, so intelligent that they have outsmarted the super advanced technology that makes this ‘entertainment’ so popular.

    They will remain oblivious, and that guarantees the growth of these industries (and opportunities) out here.

  • Bluepillprofessor

    @Softek: Welcome, you are in the right place. Your story is well presented but I hate to tell you it is nothing new. Nothing new at all. If your not playing the game the you are the one getting played.

  • The Other Jim

    I’m not sure if the following is an exclamation point to the above or merely another facet. Regardless(via AP);

    “Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teen Natalee Holloway, married his pregnant Peruvian girlfriend Friday in a ceremony at the maximum-security prison where he is serving 28 years for murdering a woman he met in a Lima casino.”

    Link: http://news.yahoo.com/joran-van-der-sloot-ties-knot-peru-prison-155733482.html

    It’s all about ‘gina tingles….

  • Matt Ryan

    Rollo,

    You are by far the smartest and most articulate writer in the manosphere. Your blog and book are groundbreaking and should be required reading for all men, regardless of age. You are transcending “game” in a way that is a great service to men and women and grows more important every day.

    But I have a couple of critiques; I hope you take them in the respectful manner I intend.

    In many of your blog posts your principal point appears to be that hypergamy is an evolved female psychological trait that is immune to reason, morality, religion, societal pressure, etc. It’s like the Joker in the Dark Knight—it can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. It just wants to better deal the current man. It’s an inherent female character trait or disposition that is hardcoded onto every woman’s DNA. From this perspective, the takeaway seems to suggest nihilism with respect to hypergamy, i.e., it is what it is and you can’t do shit about it.

    Several of your blog posts also appear have a correlated point that the Feminine Imperative, feminism, Western woman, manginas, mainstream media, etc. are part of an effort—more or less concerted—to wage war on masculinity (the “patriarchy”) and remove apparent constraints on female sexual agency. That is, a war is being waged on men (in their capacity as such) by large constituents in our society—a war that has been going on for +/- 60 years. From my perspective, this undermines the view that hypergamy is an evolved psychological trait immune to conscious influence. Society need not wage war to advance the cause of an inborn, dominant and pervasive psychological trait.

    Elsewhere in your blog posts your point appears to be something along the lines of advising men to seek to control hypergamy and/or its impact on them. This ostensibly can be achieved through game, alpha-ness, avoiding oneitis, spinning plates, etc. From this perspective, deploying game (which I view, for sake of simplicity, as increased social awareness) and increasing alpha-ness (e.g., get in the gym, eat right, get your finances in order, become interesting, etc.) are portrayed as ways to combat / mitigate / control hypergamy.

    All that to say this: I basically have two points of contention with the sum of these views. First, they are arguably logically inconsistent. Seeking to control something that is uncontrollable (such as hypergamy) is tilting at windmills. And ‘society’ (FI, MSM, etc.) has no apparent reason to seek to advance something that is hardcoded on female DNA. So query how these views are reconcilable.

    And second (and much more importantly), the way this entire discussion is framed is entirely wrong (in my humble opinion). It’s all from a frame of feminine primacy. How do we control our woman? How do we control their impulses? How do we control whether they cheat on us? Or have sex with us? Or meet our needs? Quite frankly, who gives a shit? The frame should be male primacy. Become a great man and that will attract what it attracts. If woman love you, like you, leave you—it doesn’t matter. The primary objective—the end in and of itself—is for every man to become his best self. Not to frenetically worry about how woman will respond to this, that or the other.

    Just my two cents. Keep up the fantastic work.

  • eon

    “As a ‘solution’ to hypergamy, alpha-ing up is almost Catch22, though. ‘Go ahead and grab it’ only works if she already perceives you to be alpha.”

    Because this is true, the best and easiest way to establish yourself as alpha is by being significantly dominant at the very beginning, at the initial point of your first interaction, but in a way that is relaxed and non-threatening.

    Usually, this is only possible if an appropriate situation presents itself, or if you can create one.

    When I started university, I was a combination of blue pill and alpha.

    I did not pedestalize, but I enjoyed taking care of women (I still do), and expected them to be fundamentally good (long gone).

    My saving grace, until I became red pill, was that I never took shit from anyone, men or women, and if things started going off the rails, I would step in and take charge, whether anyone liked it or not.

    One day, during my first week, I was wandering around, looking for a place to eat. I finally noticed the sign of a pizza place above the trees, and was walking toward it, when I saw a cute, tall, and thin but curvy girl.

    I was hungry, but she had red hair down to the middle of her back, so I had to stop.

    After a few moments, I figured out that she was holding a lunch-date “auction”. She was telling her fans how special they all were and how impossibly difficult it was for her to choose. Although I did not think in these terms at that time, the betas were fawning and pedestalizing, and the faux alphas were trying to be cocky and funny.

    But both groups were still dancing to her tune, by proposing more and more outlandish and expensive lunch plans and modes of transportation, just presented in different ways.

    Mostly to amuse myself, and to mock them (they had managed to become intolerably annoying in under a minute), I asked: “Can I play?”

    I brushed past her entourage, walked into her “personal space”, took her face in my hands and said: “we are going to eat pizza, and you are going to like it”.

    I then put her over my shoulder and continued walking in my original direction. I didn’t have any investment or expectations, and if she had started to object in a serious way, I would have put her down immediately.

    As it turned out, after I had taken about 10 steps, she started laughing. So, of course, I had to slap her butt and tell her that pizza was serious business.

    After she stopped laughing, she explained that she had looked up to “wave bye-bye to the chumps”, but when she saw them standing there with their mouths open, it occurred to her that they could give BJs to each other while they tried to figure out what had just happened.
    .

    Two valuable insights that I have seen repeated in various ways and places are:

    1) Women want to be told what to do and to be used, by men who are not weak, and who are in control of themselves.

    I deliberately used “not weak” instead of “strong” or “dominant”, because those two come in various types and variations, but figuring out “not weak” is a lot easier, for those who are honest with themselves.

    And being strong and dominant is never the same as being out of control. By maintaining self-control, even when you are visibly angry, you avoid coming down to her level and thus implicitly conceding that she is your equal.

    There are also different types of anger. You can become angry: 1) as the result of an event, or 2) during the course of a disagreement.

    In the absence of weakness, there is no reason for the second type of anger. Once you establish, in your own mind, that there is no possibility that you will allow yourself to capitulate, then you can relax.

    If you do not establish this for yourself, you can slip into the “PLEASE STOP what you are doing/saying, so that I can stop being afraid that I will give in” type of mindset.

    This fearful mindset can lead to the irrational type of anger that is dependent upon decent into a temporary “equality through emotion” when actual equality does not exist.

    Dealing with your wife in this manner is no different than when parents get into a screaming debate with a six-year-old in a toy store.

    This leads into the second insight.

    2) All women are like your bratty little sister, at least some of the time.

    The following is an excerpt from: www[]huffingtonpost[]com/melanie-curtin/10-easy-ways-to-deal-with-me-when-im-being-a-bitch_b_3676315.html

    I found the link to this article on another site, in a comment that was using it as an example of how “all women are really terrible”.

    But the fact of the matter is that all women are just really women. They simply do not have the capacity to be what some (or many) men need them to be. The best that is available is to deal with them as they are, and if you are at that point, Melanie’s article is useful, and funny.
    .

    “6. When I act like a child, think of me like a child

    “Half the time when I’m being a bitch, it is exactly the same as when a 3-year-old is wigging out because s/he’s sleep-deprived. There is no logical reason for the behavior — it’s a physiological reaction. As adults, we assume we’re all capable of being normal, rational beings all the time.

    “We’re not. Especially not those of us with riotously, spectacularly, outlandishly fluctuating hormones.

    “Seriously, when I’m whining or bitching or complaining seemingly just for the sake of it, picture me as a tiny little girl in a tiny little dress with a tiny little diaper and a tiny little face red from bawling, who is upset that you just gave her the wrong milk. How seriously do you take that toddler? How much compassion do you have for her?

    “You always knew I was secretly a 3-year-old. Now make it work for you.”
    .

    However, since she is a woman, with everything that implies, and not a child, when there is no logical reason for the behavior and it is not a proxy for some actual problem (you really need to be paying close attention over an extended period), and if she looks up to you as her leader, with some (many) women, a spanking (NOT as punishment, but as a replacement input to move her into a different frame of mind) can work really, spectacularly, well.

  • Glenn

    @ eon – Game shorthand? Treat ‘em like children.

  • Glenn

    Been thinking about this all day. The sexual mores of House of Cards are more indicative of pathology than anything else. Take Claire. She lords over the security guy how Frank won her over, but in the mean time she’s shooting up to NYC to bang the photographer for a few days. Nobody locks her down – nobody. And if she wants to crush this poor dying guys balls in her hands in one last act of cruelty, she’ll go right ahead and do so. The security guy is an archetype for the betas she can righteously denigrate and dispose of any time she chooses to in society. There’s a nice guy – let’s go kill him! I see the macabre cruelty of her actions here as being exhibitionistic, and even a bit sadistic.

    Also Frank’s relationship with the reporter, whatever her name is, isn’t very alpha. She’s overtly using him for information, there is an explicit quid pro quo. She’s also very aggressive with him, really it’s a bit all over the place for me. And the second season is a disaster, so disappointing.

  • Seraph

    “Also Frank’s relationship with the reporter, whatever her name is, isn’t very alpha. She’s overtly using him for information, there is an explicit quid pro quo. She’s also very aggressive with him, really it’s a bit all over the place for me.”

    Glenn, have to respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree here. From beginning to end he is in control of the relationship. She is not using him for information, Frank is using HER to shape events while keeping his fingerprints off his machinations. She is a tool he uses, in more ways than one.

    Yes, she happens to get something out of the relationship, which is inside information which furthers her career. Frank USES that carrot, dangling in front of her to get her to play along in his schemes. But that information is stuff he needs to get out there. He is playing her from the very start, and he gets the added bonus of banging that young, tight little bod.

    Does Frank let her THINK she has some measure of control, yes. See Greene’s Power of Seduction for that little playbook. In fact, she is caught in the guys web. (There is a shot when they first consummate their relationship of a spider that the camera focuses on to highlight that point).

    Also, Zoe obviously has the hots for Frank. Is she fucking him just to get some info? No. She gets off on the power, and his swagger. This is highlighted in the beginning of Season 2, when she is involved with the fellow reporter and literally seems bored fucking him.

    I do agree that Season 2 had other writing problems, though.

  • Seraph

    “All that to say this: I basically have two points of contention with the sum of these views. First, they are arguably logically inconsistent. Seeking to control something that is uncontrollable (such as hypergamy) is tilting at windmills.”

    If I could take a stab at this…

    One, I think one has to clarify what you mean by ‘control’. Does it mean, alter hypergamy, i.e., make it do what you want to, change it or, learn deal with it, learn it’s methods and weaknesses so as to minimize it power to get what YOU want out of relationship.

    An example of the former is thinking one can get women to NOT be attracted to strong, willful, confident guys (jerks to some), and an example of the latter is becoming a strong, willful, confident guy.

    I don’t think Rollo has ever said you can control hypergamy in the sense of bending it to your will, making it essentially stop in a woman or society at large. I think he has written exactly the opposite, in fact.

    What he has said, as many others have, is that knowing what you are up against is essential for success, and knowing how to deal with it is imperative because it does not go away.

    “And ‘society’ (FI, MSM, etc.) has no apparent reason to seek to advance something that is hardcoded on female DNA. So query how these views are reconcilable.”

    Society is not creating more hypergamy in women, or somehow generating hypergamous behavior in the first place. As you acknowledge it already there.

    What it is doing is facilitating the better use of it by women, creating an environment where it can be given free reign rather than have checks and balances on it which used to exist. In that sense they are encouraging women to engage more freely in that impulse that is already there by making it more beneficial and less costly.

  • The Lone Planet

    They aren’t children.

  • LiveFearless

    @Seraph There are no writing problems. Everything is intentional.

  • gunslingergregi

    @Seraph There are no writing problems. Everything is intentional.””””’

    I noticed the first year or so of episodes of something are a certain way all manly and shit like for instance American dad
    then they start hammering the real agenda.
    where the manly character turns into a fag or she bitch to his wife

  • gunslingergregi

    Softek your saying in ten years you never made a sexual move on a chick and it is her fault somehow she led you on?
    What made you think you were gonna live a fairy tale when you waited so long?

  • gunslingergregi

    And second (and much more importantly), the way this entire discussion is framed is entirely wrong (in my humble opinion). It’s all from a frame of feminine primacy. How do we control our woman? How do we control their impulses? How do we control whether they cheat on us? Or have sex with us? Or meet our needs? Quite frankly, who gives a shit? The frame should be male primacy. Become a great man and that will attract what it attracts. If woman love you, like you, leave you—it doesn’t matter. The primary objective—the end in and of itself—is for every man to become his best self. Not to frenetically worry about how woman will respond to this, that or the other.””””””

    well it is gonna be hard to think further than just getting a woman period if you don’t have one.
    kind of like money if you don’t have enough to pay bills then you are gonna be really really worried about it
    if you have enough to pay bills it will be less of a worry and you will worry bout something else
    to me the end game is having chicks bring you money and completely flip the script and jump through any hoop you set out whether it is on fire or not

  • Tenno

    @Seraph
    “So…Fiction, however well written never, ever, EVER illustrates and illuminates actual real-life concepts regarding human behavior and existence.
    Is that your contention?”

    My contention is that if you try to make a point about real world you don’t turn to TV show – or any fiction – for your supporting argument. After all it’s just a question of motive and method. If our motive here is seeking the truth about the world around us then we’ve got to have our methods rigorous, not lousy. If, on the other hand, our motive is simply waging war on feminism then everything is a fair game and my initial comment is off the mark.

    “Right. They just stumbled upon it, and were oblivious to all the concepts like hypergamy even though they wrote it so well you could see those concepts easily.”

    They weren’t necessarily oblivious. But their target audience does not think in those categories. It would be strange of the authors to bother employing the concepts.

    The scriptwriters’ job is to produce a script with widest possible appeal. To do that you cater to viewers interests and worldview, not challenge or confuse them. Using redpill constructs would be like having the show in German: the public will get the action but make nothing of the dialogs.

    TV for people is just a bubble gum for eyes and ears. They don’t turn on TV to think and learn some serious stuff, that’s what books are for. TV people got that.

  • Jokanaan

    @Will

    “you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting”

    So much wisdom in this statement.

    By the same token, certain fantasies should remain in the realm of fantasy and should never be acted upon. I’m sure we all have examples which in a clear state of mind can be visualized to a less than happy conclusion.

  • water cannon boy

    Not all tv shows are like that.
    Now that I got that out the way, a few short thoughts. What I get from the character is she’s being so mean because you have the displeasure of being put on the pedestal combined with the attempt at what he thought would be received as a romantic gesture, mixed with anger inducing fake nice guy-really scared to be alpha-wait till now to tell me-think I fall for that scripted romance-you send your wife away for this you big phony, then you get that much contempt on your death bed.
    Second, using the women’s as children analogy, you don’t expect, nor control children to act like adults. They can’t, because they aren’t. You can try to get them to do things that are mature for their age. That’s what’s been said about hypergamy. You learn to deal with it and manage it. Not get rid of it or control it.
    Third, I’ve been spanking girls for a while now. Works for me.

  • Adam S

    That’s powerful scene indeed. Being new and uninitiated to the manosphere. What are the biggest takeaways from this clip?

  • Seraph

    “@Seraph There are no writing problems. Everything is intentional.”

    When I refer to writing problems, I mean writing which does not reflect reality, and thus ruins the suspension of disbelief and thus the program. This is a huge problem with politically correct work. It pushes certain a agenda at the expense of believability but an audience watching can see how ridiculous it all is and tunes out.

    And yes, a show can contain elements of politically correct and incorrect material in it.

    Although I never saw it, I believe this is why Sorkin’s “Newsroom” got canceled. Even many libs for whom the show was tailor made to appeal to their vanity and mindset found it unbelievable. If you don’t believe it, it ceases to be:

    1) Interesting
    2) Entertainment

  • Seraph

    “My contention is that if you try to make a point about real world you don’t turn to TV show – or any fiction – for your supporting argument.”

    Never? Even when illustrating a point or concept? A piece of fiction, no matter how well written and acted can never shed any additional light or understanding on any subject?

    If I am trying to relate to someone the brutality and savagery of small unit combat, for instance, is reading a purely historical account of one more helpful than watching a well done film or television series on it, or reading a historical novel of a time period. Even if some of the individual elements are off, if it illuminates for you the reality of an era which is far removed from you, does it still have no worth?

    One can talk about Alpha and Beta behaviors ad nauseum; Alphas do this, women respond to this, Beta’s behave like this, and this is why some men get lots of tail and this is why other’s do not. You can quote science studies, cite charts, and all that, but how well does that sink for guys who are struggling against a deeply ingrained worldview which contradicts it?

    Showing how all these terms, hypergamy, pedestalization, oneitis, etc., actually play out for someone, and to do it dramatically to enhance the understanding of them, seems quite valid.

    If you have been reading about Game and such for any length of time, you must have read numerous accounts from guys about their experiences with women that lead them to Red Pill thinking. Do those stories not help other guys understand the dynamics involved, or at the very least see the problems in a different light?

    So, when someone writes a fictional scene which draws on such real life experiences, how does that not assist in understanding the issue better?

    Rollo cited the scene because it illustrated some of the concepts discussed here. One of you guys admitted you recognized those concepts playing out in the scene, so it seems to have worked for you. Maybe you don’t recognize the worth because you are so steeped in the Red Pill knowledge, but how about a guy just starting out? You think it might be of more worth for him?

    “They weren’t necessarily oblivious. But their target audience does not think in those categories.”

    And you know this how? Who is their target audience?

    “The scriptwriters’ job is to produce a script with widest possible appeal.”

    Wait, what about their target audience? If they are trying for widest possible appeal, they really are not targeting, right?

    Actually, movie script writers have been doing this, and movie receipts are slumping. Many movies are crap because of this, which is why a lot of good material is now surfacing on cable and streaming outlets.

    “TV for people is just a bubble gum for eyes and ears. They don’t turn on TV to think and learn some serious stuff,”

    A lot of TV is dreck, yes. And there are a HUGE amount of books which are garbage, or a least “bubble-gum” for the mind, is there not?

    You seem very black and white in all this, acting like there is NOTHING of quality or worth if it does not come between two pieces of cardboard.

    I take work, no matter in what form, for what it’s worth, judging it on its own merits. If it is well done, it does not matter how fictional the setting; human beings will act like human beings and within that framework it is go immense value.

    Let me ask you…Even though he based some work on historical figures, most if not all of Shakespeare is fictional. Do believe nothing in his works offers anything of worth in discussing human behavior or the human condition?

    If you think it does, does that immediately disappear the second it is put onto a screen?

  • Softek

    @ gunslingergregi

    Instead of getting into all the details, which I could go on and on about, the only important part is this:

    It was the fatal wound to my inner beta. That was the first time in my life I ever asked a girl out — I’m a very late bloomer and her rejection was the death knell of all my hopeless fantasies that were born out of neediness and weakness and loneliness and a lack of self confidence more than anything else. I’ve “fallen in love” with plenty of girls before but I never got overtly rejected because I never made my intentions overt — and I’m sure I subconsciously did that so I could hold onto my fantasies, because they were all I (thought I) had.

    I wouldn’t be as completely devastated as I have been if I hadn’t emotionally invested so much in my fantasy of her, who I thought she was and what I thought we could — and would — have together. That was just a rude awakening waiting to happen. It taking 10 years is just evidence of how completely plugged in I’ve been, and I’m sure that has a lot to do with never having a group of friends, spending most of my life isolated and living day to day in complete sexual deprivation.

    I’m in denial right now. I can’t even believe that I’ve really been that delusional my whole life. It’s like…really? I feel like I’m waking up from a dream.

    Just a textbook example of a blue pill beta chump. I can see that now, but it took me putting myself out there to literally the last girl in my life that I had a blue pill, plugged-in “attachment” to. Now that she’s gone I literally have absolutely no one to project any fantasies onto, which is probably one of the best things that’s ever happened to me.

    Now the fantasies can finally die. Shatter. Bleed out. Whatever — just die, finally just die. They never did anything but torment me and make me miserable.

    I’m going to miss the misery and the torment because they’re all I’ve ever known. It’s funny how that works. We hate what we love and love what we hate. “Monsters and Magical Sticks” is a fantastic book about hypnosis and it’s been helping me a lot to read that. Very fascinating stuff and very powerful for personal change and empowerment — but it gets into that idea of loving what we hate and hating what we love, and how conditioned fears and responses are really no different than stereotypical hypnotic conditioned responses like raising your hand when someone tugs their tie, and lowering it when they tug it twice.

    But it’s just starting to “click” for me. I was interpreting everything on this blog subconsciously through my blue pill filter, because I still had an extreme emotional investment in my fantasies and hopes for “love.”

    Instead of beating myself up about it, I’m just very grateful that I have the insight thanks to writing like Rollo’s that I can rationalize my situation, realize that it’s normal, and know that I have the strength to get through this and completely change my life like so many other men have.

    I also don’t want to wait to enjoy my life and have fun. Which reminds me of the importance of valuing my own time and not wasting it around people I don’t like or doing things I don’t want to do, which I’ve spent most of my life doing. Huge wakeup call. Hit me like a train but again, I think this was the best thing that could’ve happened to me, and it’s all on me to make the most of this opportunity to change myself and my life.

  • Alpha Betazoid

    Rollo,

    A thought occurred to me the other day. What if Hypergamy is a necessary mechanism?

    What I mean by this is in a stable environment women will take more risks with male relations to maximize the chance at Alpha seed. BUT, this in turn motivates Betas or even Alphas to seek other females (aka War Brides, or Foreign Women). It may be possible that a stable environment, modern western society, makes women more selective, lazy and bitchy about mating. This in turn motivates men who are left out to find other women outside of the environmental bounds where the women are jaded.

  • LiveFearless

    @Seraph When I refer to writing problems, I mean writing which does not reflect reality, and thus ruins the suspension of disbelief and thus the program.

    This, too, has been intentional.

    Related, Rollo sent this tweet:

    You should read the elementary article that partially explains the purpose of the 40-hour work week.

    How does this relate? They work, and the work steals mind space, energy and the currencies of time and attention. They SPEND time PAYING attention to the content they absorb.

    99.999999…. % of persons have chosen to be oblivious to how they are affected by content that comes from here. Los Angeles is the epicenter of content & global influence.

    This is NOT about causing any show to last multiple seasons. It’s about influence.

  • water cannon boy

    Advertisers do say that it’s hard to market to men.

  • LiveFearless

    @water cannon boy Advertisers do say that it’s hard to market to men.

    HIlarious!

    ESPN: Worth > $50 billion

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2014/04/29/the-value-of-espn-surpasses-50-billion/

    Netflix = 1/3 of nightly home internet usage

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/14/netflix-accounts-for-13-of-nightly-home-internet-traffic-apples-itunes-takes-2

    Netflix was doing DVD mailers. Now they are on the level of buying television shows, and they are the largest single user of the internet.

    In digital services, we are creating conversations, in non-traditional programming, and we are making the content more accessible. We solicit information from those that consume the content instead of using the normal ‘focus’ groups. So if we roll out some episodes that are extraordinary (creating a habit), then we can shift the content… and people that work their 40-hour work week, for whatever reason, continue to watch.

    It’s less about the product in a traditional :30 ad. ‘Ads’ are part of the script.

  • George Meeks

    ANOTHER CROCK OF HOLLYWOOD SHIT!

    The video at the beginning of “The Proposal” is simply nothing more than another pathetic “power bitch I got ya by the balls” dumbass liberal media propaganda ilk. Really? What congressman’s wife would really go into his dying security officers hospital room and fondle his penis like that? Get fucking real!

    Anyone who reacts to that video as if it has ANY authority is “Beta” to the max and I have the Eiffel tower to sell you

    Most people will take the path of least resistance in life, the OFFERED path of least resistance. Which is easier, busting your ass getting an education, working your ass off 10 to 12 hours a day to hack out a living or getting someone else to do it for you? It is a lot easier to get out of bed an hour or two after your spouse, get 2 or 3 kids ready for school, go to the beauty parlor, Starbucks, a 2 hour gossip lunch with “friends”, watch Oprah & DR. Phil-O-Shit, go shopping, while the maid cleans the house, get home just in time for the kids to return from school, then lie, bitch and complain about how “hard” your day was to your spouse when they get home after a long stressful day.

    Webster’s dictionary defines hypergamy: “Marriage into an equal or higher chaste or social group”. That is the entire definition, nothing else.

    Webster’s definition includes specifically and only marriage into a higher socioeconomic, Mating and sexual pleasure are achieved by females WITHOUT hypergamy. Although hypergamy is practiced widely by females in conjunction with sexual mating urges, it is NOT sexual in any way itself. NO female wants to fuck a $1,000.00 bill, a Ferrari, or a 10 million dollar mansion, etc; but they’ll fuck the guy who earned them in droves to gain access to his wealth. Their goal is to live a life of leisure with as much luxury as possible expending the least effort possible. It has NOTHING to do with reproduction of the species, “love”, “security”, good parenting, etc.

    IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH LAZYNESS AND MATERIALISTIC SELF INDULGENCE.

    Hypergamy seems to be presented as the primary female sexual MATING strategy throughout this site and discourse blog. I agree hypergamy IS USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH sexual mating urges. However, I do not agree it is a female MATING strategy or imperative. It is a laziness and materialistic self indulgence imperative. The children are often nothing more than hostages. Most murdered children are killed by their mothers. According to a 2009 report from the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services, that year 27.3 percent of child deaths resulting from abuse were perpetrated by the mother, compared to only 14.8 percent of fathers. Mothers and fathers acting together accounted for 22.5 percent of child deaths. According to these same statistics only 2.3 percent of fatalities were committed by a parent’s male partner.

    Hypergamy is NOT a female innate instinct. Presenting it as a MATING strategy or MATING imperative is very misleading and provides the hypergamic sociopathic bitch with the perfect lying excuse. Stop doing this!

  • scratche2013

    @LiveFearless

    Could you explain “influence” a little more in depth; I am not entirely sure what you are talking about but I have a feeling it is probably very interesting.

  • jacklabear

    Softek is the group’s pet beta.

    Eric Berne, founder of the Transactional Analysis branch of psychology (I’m OK, You’re OK; Games People Play) identified a ‘game’ played by groups of psychologists doing therapy on/with each other. One member’s neurosis is held up as a rare, fragile thing of beauty for the others to nurture and admire.

    “In a section on the game of “Greenhouse” in Games People Play(1964), he wrote:
    The expression of such a feeling may be preceded by the announcement that it is on its way…the feeling is described, or rather presented before the group as though it were a rare flower which should be regarded with awe. The reactions of the other members of the group are received very solemnly and they take on the air of connoisseurs at a botanical garden. The problem seems to be…whether this one is good enough to be exhibited in the National Feeling Show. (p. 142)”

    Berne was not too keen on discussing feelings, but Berne’s protege’ Rudolph Steiner was.
    Here is Steiner talking about the importance of feelings. Note the invocation of the f word.

    “…Thanks to the influence, in my personal life, of the great emotional force of feminism, I came to realize that the full-blown inclusion of emotions is essential to good therapy, as essential as the contract and the problem-solving Adult. Emotional literacy training is my contribution to the open-hearted incorporation of emotions in the practice of soul healing and in a good life.”

    http://www.emotional-literacy-training.de/Medien/Buecher%20Claude/Steiner%20-%20The%20Heart%20of%20the%20Matter;%20Love,%20Information%20and%20Transactional%20Analysis.pdf

    Men are now held to a standard of mental health (being in the realm of feelings) that is natural to the feminine. I remember when I was young I had internalized this believing I was setting myself apart from ‘all those other guys’ by talking about my feelings.

    Despite Deida’s emphasis on the nature of the Masculine, the now defunct David Deida discussion list was a farce because it was so dominated by the FI.
    So on the DD discussion list, even the alpha masc of the group when asked a question by a fem, he would never say “let me think about that and get back to you”. He would always say “let me feel into that”. The worst accusation levelled by a woman to a man was “what are you, some kind of scientist?”. This despite Deida saying that the nature of the masculine was being a ‘gridhead’ (logical analysis).

  • blogster

    One of the coldest scenes in House of Cards. For those who haven’t seen the original British series I recommend it. You think Frank Underwood is cold – Francis Urquhart is the devil on earth in comparison.

    For the person above who says that reading something deeper into this scene is the equivalent of tea leaf reading. All the greatest TV series are multi-layered, with social and political commentaries infusing and running through the story arch/plot of the show itself. Think The Sopranos and The Wire as two prime examples. They did so subtly and it is only those with actual understanding of those issues, those who have experienced or felt them, that can actually recognise them for what they are. That’s the beauty of it. That’s why I would hazard that you are still quite blue-pill – because you haven’t experienced something for what it truly was, not what you THINK it is.

    The reality of hypergamy that still gets me is this – I have to be more in order to attract something that is less (of lesser value). My return on investment is less (building my value, maintaining dominance and leadership etc), while hers is more. In other fields of endeavour there is an acceptable risk-reward relationship – I risk more, the rewards are higher. That is why I never begrudge the billionaire internet wiz, the football star or the explorer. But it i a very hard truth to swallow that this lack of leverage does not cross over into relationships.

  • gunslingergregi

    The reality of hypergamy that still gets me is this – I have to be more in order to attract something that is less (of lesser value). My return on investment is less (building my value, maintaining dominance and leadership etc), while hers is more. In other fields of endeavour there is an acceptable risk-reward relationship – I ”””””””””””’

    both my woman have made more in a year than I have ever made
    and pretty much any woman can make more than any man except the very top

  • gunslingergregi

    or getting a hot chick about same as winning lottery

  • water cannon boy

    Livefearless, not so hilarious. It’s much harder to market to men than to women. Ad agencies will readily admit that.
    Espn is worth several billion. What’s profound about that?

  • scratche2013

    @gunslingergregi

    I don’t really know what you are talking about. Maybe you are responding to comments from LiveFearless earlier on in this post but without reference your post makes no sense. Are you saying that you consistently date women that make more money than you? If that is your point I would like to know if you are significantly better looking than them or if you have some other angle going? Please share more. Going along with this issue, are you saying that other men should date women that make more or are you just pointing out that you are one of the fortunate few?

  • Tenno

    Seraph,
    If you have the time please watch this short

    First off, I think we’d both agree that both men are chumps. But that’s not the point.

    The point is that however experience-based and dead-on that short might be, you’d raise some eyebrows if you tried to illustrate, explain or prove anything with it. And the reason is that however strongly fiction might relate to reality, by its very definition it always have some deal of making things up – otherwise it won’t be a fiction. I don’t know if there are exceptions but most men will have hard time discerning one from the other. That’s why in some cases you have to go black-and-white and compartmentalize things, pre-screen regardless of worth of individual works. Not because fiction is never ever good at showing how things really are but because you have to work to tell when it tries to and when it doesn’t.

    I would recommend anyone interested in war movies to watch Das Boot. But I will never say, or imply, “It will give you a good idea what it was like.” You teach children with fables, grown men learn’t to be skeptical and demand sound reasoning.

    Still, you make some great points. Thank you.

  • ADL

    @ Adam S

    “That’s powerful scene indeed. Being new and uninitiated to the manosphere. What are the biggest takeaways from this clip?

    That Women are the most deadliest creatures on the face of the planet, that are most certainly capable of this despicable callous blue cold heart behavior despite the work of “Fiction” comments..

    Learn, comprehend and swallow however hard it is to take.

  • gunslingergregi

    @scratch I was responding to blogster with that hash marks above my comment
    and responding to this ””””The reality of hypergamy that still gets me is this – I have to be more in order to attract something that is less ””””””

    and

    ”””while hers is more. In other fields of endeavour there is an acceptable risk-reward relationship – I risk more, the rewards are higher.””””

    but it is not true woman literally worth more so yea a hot one or even not so hot one are born with the ability to make more than a man who has to put all that improvement work in if she is willing to take some risk in the oldest profession there is.

  • Jeremy

    I’ve been watching HoC from the beginning, so I saw this scene in-sequence. At first I came away thinking of just how horrible this scene portrayed Claire, but then realized that, no, she was just being honest like he was. Her honesty was grounded in the pragmatism of what must be done to achieve her own desires. His honesty came from a full-blown oneitis disease that germinated in his own romanticism.

    What is most revealing to me about HoC is just how well the couple manages to pass themselves off as just like everyone else, while at the same time seemingly operating under the “proper” human rulebook (Yes, I realize they do things that are criminal and immoral, that’s part of my point).

  • Glenn

    @ Livefearless & Rollo – Re: The linked tweet. All I can say is this. Have you read Coase on “the firm”? If not, consider that to economically sentient human beings such as me, the infantile anti-corporate rantings that were available on the link shared by Rollo are laughable. The author of the article linked is not right about anything – and apparently has no education or understanding of global economics and instead substitutes weak leftist agit prop for analysis. That he does so in a hip, cool way only reveals how that works well on some people…

    Put more plainly, and I’ll only do this once as I typically ignore hysterically ignorant anti-corporate types, you are reducing the complexity of human society ridiculously to describe it as one in which we are like puppets being manipulated through our daily existence by evil corporations. Also, implied in such commentary is that there is some kind of plot afoot to control and exploit us.

    Horseshit. Period. Dot. End of fucking sentence. If you don’t understand economics, don’t talk about it. That companies use marketing and psychology to appeal to people is proof of exactly nothing (isn’t that what Rollo does for a living?). Fyi, I’m a high end b2b sales/marketing consultant who gets paid thousands in retainers a month for my marketing skills, so I’m not just some idiot sitting in his underwear making a random comment. What’s most hysterical about this line of reasoning is that anyone who actually does marketing will tell you that most marketing doesn’t “work”. A direct marketing campaign that gets 1-8% response rate can be considered a success. Hmmm, if corporations were so good at marketing, why would most of it fail? An even better question is why do most companies fail if there is the secret sauce for making people buy stuff they don’t need? I mean, if that’s what’s going on – why does it work so fucking poorly?

    Answer? Because such thinking is juvenile bullshit. It has no place in serious intellectual dialog, which is what I’m here for. Stick to intersexual relations and evo psych etc. Bringing in this kind of blather will only reduce the coherency of your arguments and chase those of us here who are economically sentient away.

    Last. Don’t argue any of this with me – it’s not arguable. If you think you are a victim of global corporatism, you live in an infantile fantasyworld and have rejected reason in the first place. There is no arguing with you. If you then use this frail idiocy to justify becoming a marxist or an anarchist, i only pity you as the chain of flawed reasoning one must engage in to arrive at such a place is so utterly baseless, error-ridden and already debunked that only people who have weak critical thinking skills in the first place can ever adopt such views. It would take 40 hours and a whiteboard to educate you about what’s in error in your views, and I can’t be bothered and those who agree would never listen. So it certainly can’t be fixed in comment sections on the web either.

  • jacklabear

    IOW, you know which side your bread is buttered on.

  • jacklabear

    @ Gearge Meeks

    But what evolved instinct is driving this “laziness and materialistic self indulgence” on the part of women?
    Since women are weaker and partly incapacitated by gestation, childbirth and lactation, they evolved a strong instinct to manipulate men to provide for them materially. And of course this involves psychological power games too.

    Up until recent times, life was a struggle for most people. Strong instincts for survival and reproduction requiring as little work as possible were necessary for the continuation of the species.
    Most of the problems with human behaviour in modern times is because technology has greatly amplified our ability to meet these survival needs. But our instincts have not decreased proportionally. So now, instead of a man hitting a rival with a club, he can pull a trigger or push a button and kill millions of people at once. A single farmer can grow enough food to feed thousands of people. Making as many babies as possible results in unsustainable overpopulation.

    The reasons civilizations collapse is because life becomes too easy. Peoples’ survival instincts have no useful expression anymore. Their dancing to the tune of formerly useful instincts comes out as behaviours destructive to the society in the long run. Eventually, other cultures that are still struggling overrun them.

    Thanks to modern technology, SAHMs’ lives became too easy. The women no longer had useful things to do all day. So the likes of Betty Friedan and other bored housewives living in the lap of luxury became unhaaaapy. They turned their strong drive to get men to dance to the tune of their instincts in ways that are destructive to society.

    Yes, ethics are important to modulate instincts for the survival of the species. Underlying the failure of those ethics is not so much a moral failing as the now inappropriate expression of formerly useful instincts. Note that this view of the situation does not require appeal to religion. A scientific understanding is enough to call for a cultural restraint of women’s hypergamy.

    Similar arguments could be made about men’s behaviour. What with modern medicine and food production it is no longer necessary to fuck as many women as possible. But the instincts persist.
    Having said that, women are more strongly instinct driven and opportunistic for reasons mentioned above, and are more in need of having their instincts curbed.

  • LiveFearless

    @Glenn writes If you don’t understand economics, don’t talk about it… If you think you are a victim of global corporatism

    The article he tweeted isn’t about me, and it’s not about Rollo.

    I haven’t said anything about being a ‘victim of corporatism’ – Rollo hasn’t either. You are projecting your own feelings onto others. We both enjoy working with corporations to accomplish what affects positive global change.

    Make sure you avoid my friend Tim Ferriss. His book – “The 4-Hour Workweek” – would not be good for your world view. I’ve enjoyed the benefits of doing what the book says, and it’s given me opportunities that your words indicate would seem impossible.

    I would, however, recommend that you visit Victor Pride’s website. Go there and spout your vast experience to him. I’ve linked to it through my username here. I am always learning since I don’t know it all, and it will be entertaining to see how he responds to your comments.

  • scratche2013

    @gunslingergregi

    – but it is not true woman literally worth more so yea a hot one or even not so hot one are born with the ability to make more than a man who has to put all that improvement work in if she is willing to take some risk in the oldest profession there is. –

    So true, there are pros and even just strippers that can make six-figure money fairly easily that honestly aren’t even that attractive. If anyone doubts this just look up some escort site and check out the pics and rates.

    Obese/hideous – $150 an hour
    Slightly overweight/normal – $200 an hour
    Healthy weight/pretty – $250-$300 an hour
    In shape/pretty – $300-$500 an hour

    Oh and age isn’t even a factor, the in shape girls are so rare that they can be 50yo and still ask for $350 an hour. Of course I am sure it is different outside the US where prostitution isn’t legalized.

  • LiveFearless

    @Glenn Don’t argue any of this with me – it’s not arguable.

    A friend of mine that advises billionaires (and he doesn’t charge them any retainer fee) has said:

    “Unsuccessful people think they know it ALL It’s funny because these are people that sit on the sideline saying, ‘I can’t believe you did that.’ They think they have the answer for everything, they’re stubborn. They always think they are right and they think that everyone else around them are idiots. Unsuccessful people don’t know what they want to be. They don’t. They love being all over the place. Unsuccessful people never have a direction, and are always looking for some type of direction or some type of target. They just sit around and complain about it. Unsuccessful people open their mouth and close their ears. They’re cry babies, and they lack action.”

    “Successful people understand that everything in life is about experience.
    They are always asking questions, they’re always looking to obtain more information. They may play dumb at times, but they’re doing that to hopefully learn more. Successful people have targets, they have goals, they understand that there’s a fundamental purpose in life. They know exactly what they want in life, how they’re going to get it and how not to hurt others to make it happen. They’re chasing something, and there really generally is nothing that’s gonna stand in their way. Successful people have goals and targets, unsuccessful people don’t even know what they want.”

  • JQ

    Now that I think about it, I do not find her to be cruel. She is being honest and she is even giving him a handjob before dying. That is some compassion for a dying man. And, in any case the one cheated here is the alpha. If I am dying, I want Scarlet Johanson to give me a handjob too.

  • gregg

    The problem is not hypergamy. The problem is how we, men are wired. Majoritry of men would accept any chick just to get laid. So – how we call this stupid program in us?

    The situation for women in this meat market:

    – BPD, stupid, unemployed, UGLY, worthless cunt, you name it..has no problem finding a man, provided she is willing to accept decent above/average man,
    – average or under average women – 4-6 have good looking husbands with more than average wages, aftewr they spend their young years fucking male 7-9s,
    – above average women are literally swimming in men,
    – no reason to go higher in attraction scale…

    The situation for men?

    – ugly, unemployed, stupid, men are havimng their hands for company,
    – above average men with some problems in confidence, etc, beta soul are CELIBATE for the majority of their teens and early twenties,
    – average or under average decent men are fucking (if they are lucky) ugly, obese, arrogant cunts, or 4s, 5s
    – above average men with normal personality have 4, or 5s,…or occasionally 6s…single moms, worn out 7s and 8s in their late thirties or forties..etc.
    – sociopaths, psychopaths, aggressive loosers, male models, millionaries, etc – for hypergamy “high class” are fucking 7-9s…

    Hypergamy IS NOT the problem. The problem is that stupid, imbecile wiring in men, which forces them to accept woman 3-4 points below them in every fucking aspect. These poor bastards will marry her, and slave her for the rest of their poor, worthless lives.

    And this program, my friends .. is in the genetic code of MAJORITY of male population. We can fool oursleves that it means that we are “romantics”. Nope, it means that we are stupid, poor bastards..time to wake up and tell this looser in you to go fuck himself!

  • jacklabear

    “– how we call this stupid program in us? ”

    Microcephaly (thinking with).

    Gentlemen, vote with your dicks.
    If she is not good enough to be the mother of your children, she’s not good enough to fuck.

  • AlphaBeta

    @Matt Ryan,

    Hypergamy is like gravity. It just is. We can actually use gravity to our advantage, but we can’t ever get rid of it. On the other hand, it’s dangerous to think it doesn’t exist; pretending it doesn’t exist will just get you in a world of hurt or worse.

  • George Meeks

    @gregg

    I cannot speak for the rest of you, but I suspect most are like me and the nature of these writings bears out that you are. We all want hot pussy and that drive is a primary impetus for this site and all these writings. All normal heterosexual males prefer to fuck 7 to 9…s, I do. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS PREFERENCE. It is far more enjoyable. It is not “stupid” and I am not an “imbecile” and any of us who are fucking 7 to 9…s have nothing to apologize about. You think we are “stupid” for fucking 7 to 9…s? Do you think your are smarter if you prefer to fuck ugly fat bitches? I feel great about fucking 7 to 9…s and I think you are a stupid imbecil for fucking 6 to 1…s.

  • heyjay

    @ George Meeks:
    That wasn’t gregg’s point. He said that if men didn’t bed ugly or otherwise damaged women we as men would be better off. But he’s right, there is a drive in men to fuck everything that moves and that is our problem. There is no selection for men but if there was women would work harder to be attractive to men.

  • jf12

    @AlphaBeta, one big difference between hypergamy and gravity is that gravity does not depend on the denial of its existence for its effectiveness.

    If women were forced to be honest about being hypergamous then it would go away.

  • Badpainter

    How does a man use hypergamy to his advantage?

    Hypergamy is antithetical to civilization and family formation. The one lesson of the last 50 years that should be well learned is that the collapse of the family unit is detrimental to the development of men.

  • jf12

    @Badpainter, re: “How does a man use hypergamy to his advantage?”

    Just be part of the 20% …
    Or 5% …

    Really, there is no advantage whatsoever, at all, in any way, to any man, for ANY woman to ever engage in any degree of hypergamy. Even the top 20% of men do not benefit from having lower-value women misoverestimate themselves, because a man who is an 8, say, would benefit from a woman who is a 9 thinking she is a better match for him than a woman who is a 6.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Hypergamy’s not going away, it’s part of women’s evolved neurological firmware.

    Neither is men’s sexual impulse going away for the same reason.

    The difference is a feminine-centric social order pathologizes men’s sexual nature while expecting no limitation on women’s hypergamy; and even men themselves are the loudest advocates for it.

    http://johnpavlovitz.com/2014/06/20/young-men-sex-and-urge-ownership-and-why-its-not-the-girls-problem/

  • Badpainter

    @Rollo

    Yes, hypergamy isn’t going away. Which only makes relationships with women similar to Siegfried’s and Roy’s relationship with their tigers. They misplaced their trust in their own hubris rather than in the nature of the beast.

  • jf12

    re: Pavlovitz. The actual Biblical answer to a man’s sexual answer, the actual remedy for concupiscence, is to get married so he WILL have a woman who belongs to him.

  • jacklabear

    “Neither is men’s sexual impulse going away for the same reason.”

    A humorist might say that wisdom is what you get when your energy and drive wane.

    “The difference is a feminine-centric social order pathologizes men’s sexual nature while expecting no limitation on women’s hypergamy…”

    I noticed another way that is manifesting socially/legally:
    Canada is another country that is working on legislation that makes prostitution legal for women, but criminalizes the prostitutes’ clients.

    That is a completely illogical and egregious example of removing limitations on women’s sexuality while maximally restricting men’s sexuality. It makes no sense in any other light.

  • George Meeks

    @heyjay

    Speaking for yourself and Gregg?

  • bankruptmorals

    House of Cards does portray a rather interesting implementation of Machiavellian politics in action and with it some red-pill truths, but an even better show (now cancelled unfortunately) was “Boss” with Kelsey Grammer.

    If you want to see real Machiavellian game in action, forget house of cards, check out Boss (also on netflix).

  • TuffLuv

    [... the ugly reality of hypergamy and women’s underlying motives in optimizing it, but also the (in some cases life-long) idealism, to the point of pathology, Betas will endure ONEitis and to the point of death, fail to ever grasp the truth of that idealism... ]

    I’ve nicknamed my former wife, “My Siren”. Thought she was a Unicorn, lol.

    It’s a great metaphor for the above..

    btw, the sailor is drowning.

  • TuffLuv

    Oops, supposed to be an embedded image of the Waterhouse painting above.. guess I haven’t figure this out yet..

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