Shallow

Recently Vox had a not unexpected run-in with the ladies over at Aunt Giggles’ Beta Emporium regarding one of my favorite feminine social conventions. There’s a very definitive feminine ownership of certain terms that the feminine imperative uses to maintain its primacy. Like any good ideology, control of the messaging is vital to perpetuating the feminine social frame. Thus terms like “shallow” and “superficial” are contextually defined from a feminine perspective and, through shaming, serve to enforce feminine primacy.

There are a lot of applications women will use “shallow” for, but the primary use is to shame men’s natural arousal/attraction cues being based on physicality. As I detailed in The Wall, women have a life long relationship with the impending decay of their only real agency over men – their physicality and their sexual access.

Why should physical appearance be a criteria for anything? The operative question; Why should the importance Men place on the physical always be characterized as “superficial”? Why is it that a man is “shallow” for following his biological imperative, while a woman seeking commitment is considered “prudent”?

Because women are only acting on behalf of their own biological imperatives when they do so. Like all feminine social conventions, if men can be made to believe that a woman’s best interest is actually his own, she retains control of the frame. How do they effect this? Repeat it over and over until men identify with it and it becomes a societal norm. This then places men into a state of internal conflict – they’re not supposed to want hot women for fear of being deemed “shallow”, but yet they always seem to find themselves attracted to, and aroused by, the most physically ideal women they encounter.

Controlled Selection

So, how, and why, then does this social convention work? Why is it necessary? The simple answer is that the latent purpose of shaming men into denying their own biological imperative better serves to maintain women’s control of hypergamous sexual selectivity.

The cold hard reality all women face is that, in the sexual market place, they are always a depriciating asset. In a biological sense, a woman’s sexual marektability decreases as she ages, but even when this isn’t universally the case, the insecurity that comes from realizing ths decline is still present for women. With effort, a woman can be sexually desirable at 40, but the internalized anxiety she experiences from having to remain sexually competitive with women 20 years younger doesn’t diminish – at some point she’ll lose her edge.

In order to counter this dynamic a social mechanic had to be developed. Men would need to be shamed for their biological preoccupation with younger, sexier, more sexually available women that they naturally, and observably, prefer. If men could be socially and psychologically convinced that physicality (their primary determinant for attraction & arousal) was less important than intellect, integrity, or any other esoteric, moralized virtue (or the perception of it at least), this then (theoretically) levels the playing field of intra-sexual competition among women. By making his importance of physicality “shallow”, women of all shapes and sizes could be instilled with “inner beauty”. It’s what’s on the inside that counts and any man to disagree is “shallow”, “superficial” and thus undeserving of their intimacy.

With this social convention in place women can have their cake and eat it too. Sexual selectivity in their youth and a realitive assurance of that same selectivity in securing a long term commitment of male provisioning as they age. Social convention circumvents biology and women retain the frame. It’s only when “scientists” such as myself pull back the curtain and show you the Wizard of Oz that men are labelled “misogynists” or “superficial.” It’s the perfect convention; one that even in revealing it still shames the one doing so – or at least calls into question his motives for doing so.

“Shallow” at Home

How important does the role of attraction play in a relationship? The funniest thing is you can apply the same idea to women with regards to a man’s level of success. If a guy cheats on his girlfriend or wife after she ‘lets herself go’ and puts on 20 extra pounds he’s called ‘shallow’, yet if a woman leaves a guy who’s out of work and/or lacks a certain level of ambition she’s just “being prudent” or doing what’s in her best interests and her children’s. It’s a man’s biological imperative to mate with as many fit and attractive females, while it’s a woman’s imperative to choose the male who is best capable of satisfying hypergamy and providing her with long term security, and by default to ultimately share in parental investment. But, feminized society calls a man ‘shallow’ and a woman ‘wise’ for embracing the sexual strategies and arousal cues nature has dealt for them. So it’s my advice that we stop accepting this epithet of ‘shallow’ as some kind of punishment for simply being a man.

I can remember a poll thread on SoSuave we started that went something like, “What do you notice first about a girl?” and went on with physical attributes like Boobs, Ass, Legs, Hair, etc. The thread basically devolved into a ‘you’re just shallow’ flame-fest, but it was fascinating to see the pre-set responses from the teenage male members. Answers that didn’t even apply to the topic like, “I’m really only interested in her ‘great personality’” were common from the more plugged-in responses. This idea of not coming off as ‘shallow’ even in a relatively anonymous forum just proves how endemic this notion of ‘shallowness’ really is.

Embrace your testosterone, really, it’s OK. No one faults a woman for not being attracted to an ambitionless, unsuccessful guy. You shouldn’t feel guilty for admitting to a preference for a girls ass or the size of her chest.


96 responses to “Shallow

  • Trini

    Great post Rollo. I have been going through this same thing in my marriage. I am shamed and brow beaten for wanting my wife to do better physically. We have had many arguments over this issue and nothing I say is getting through to her. She just use the shaming tactic. Over the years I have tried to supress it, but my need for physical attraction always pops back up. It’s then I discovered your blog and you were highlighting stuff I was feeling but just could not know how to express. I have stopped saying anything for the last year or so and I have come to the realisation we are just not a good match..I saw all the red flags before marriage but as I was not game aware and still caught in the matrix thought at the time it was the right thing to do and I would be able to get her to join me in staying fit and healthy..lol..Boy was I wrong..This issue is the only sore point of our relationship. we have been to counselling once and the guy seemed to side with her on everything. He even said I should still feel attracted to her if she was 300lbs because I loved her. When he said that I was through trying to explain my point and feelings any further. But I am currently still un-plugging and I am discovering some harsh realities that really makes me feel like kicking myself hard..I don’t know how my marriage is going to end up but it’s not looking promising that it will workout in the long run. I have been married 7 years and we’ve got 2 young boys. This is the first time in my marriage that the tought of seperation or devorce does not scare me anymore. I am slowly seeing the Matrix for what it is and I feel enlightened..That’s for all you do Rollo..

  • Peregrine John

    Trini, check out Athol’s site for guidance. In short, your own physical improvement is a step in the right direction, and with just a couple more things, you will have hand too firm even for the Mighty Hamster to ignore.

  • LD

    I’d like to have options but 90% of women have nothing but their bodies. A smart goodhearted girl would be the ideal. Not the real alas.

  • Martel

    Our “shallowness” is usually anything but. If a woman knows you’re attracted to her being in shape and then inflates into whalehood, it says a lot about her.

    First, she takes you for granted. Second, she doesn’t give a damn about what you might want from her. Third, she’s not healthy.

    So it’s “shallow” to feel less affection for somebody who doesn’t give a damn about my feelings?

  • Trini

    Thanks John..I am already into fitness so that’s not an issue for me.I keep myself in shape all year round. I always had the attention of ladies and have been approached by some over the years..I have never cheated. But to be honest I am now understanding why some guys have women on the side..That thought is actually getting comfortable for me now as I see the Matrix more clearly. I have to get my money game up. Her attitute that I should be gratefull and her sense of entitlement is what’s starting to annoy me. Grateful for what? I sacrificed alot as most men do to facilitate her reality..I think she just wanted to be married and have kids..Because the kids are her prime possessions now. To hell with mom and dad relations. The manosphere has certainly opened my eyes and I know I can do so much better. I have a few women who want to give me some play right now but I am still debating if to go through with it..You see how we men sacrifice? But I guess it’s not sacrifice, it’s what we supposed to do right?

  • Big Ern

    Tell a short man that only men are shallow re: appearance.

  • Martel

    Big Ern: Or a man with a small dick.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    This is a direct result of women wanting to me more like men. The more fat, rich and masculine they become, the more effort they have to put into convincing men to deny their natural biological impulses.

    I was born in the early 70′s so I don’t know this firsthand, but I can only imagine that 60 years ago there was much less shaming going on.

  • muscleman

    I keep saying this but it bears repeating – the world war of today is psychological and women are, by nature, better equipped. You can train yourself to fight fire with fire, but most don’t and so tactics like this persist. It’s also an alpha/beta weeding strategy though (shit test). Any guy dutifully acquiescing to ‘you’re being shallow’ is LJBF’ing himself. It’s funny because it allows sites like hotchickswithdouchebags to persist where people make fun of these ‘couples’, yet a lot of guys wish they were ‘that guy’ who could get ‘that girl’.

  • Pedro

    The funny thing is that good looking women have better personalities that fat women. The fatties think they have a good personality, just because they are disgusting.

  • MattW

    It seems women are more and more only giving lip-service to commitment. They throw that “commitment” away when it’s convenient for them. Were that not the case I would agree that their mission to find it is prudent based on my belief that healthy and intact families are essential to society’s well-being.

  • M3

    I find the whole concept amusing considering what has been going down the last few weeks wrt to hypergamy and female nature, and talk of it’s male equivalent whatever it’s called (femogamy?) and how they are both natural factors in our bio wiring.

    The whole argument in the sphere was not ‘women and hypergamy are evil and immoral’.. it was society celebrates and removes any impediment to the female version while shackling, deriding and vilifying the other.. as this post reiterates.

    Younger. Hotter. TIghter. = Shallow
    Hawter. More Powerful. More Successful. Richer. = You Go GrrrrlFraaand

  • Stingray

    If only men are *shallow* then why are things like those string bikinis the girls are wearing even an option? If women truly believed that men were attracted to a good personality then the world would be full of the most well behaved, funny and warm girls.

  • taterearl

    Since women possess the almighty uterus…finding a man who isn’t a loser is not shallow since they need someone who possesses the power to keep children alive.

    And since they possess said uterus they should do everything in their power to stay fit and trim. An aged, overweight, or a lotsa cocka uterus doesn’t work too well.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    Calling men shallow is worse than framing a debate with feminist-speak. It’s actually a form of projection. Building on what Big Ern wrote, above, it’s women who set height, salary, and educational qualifications on dating Web site.

    There is no male equivalent to this, even with weight, because men know some women can carry and extra 20 pounds and look fine, some can’t. Women don’t seem to realize that a low salary earner might be making his money in dividends because he knew how to save. Or that height might be determined by factors other than genetics. Or that a guy might have skipped right over college because he had a business plan that he put into action. Calling men shallow is women giving away their own shortcomings.

  • Phinn

    “If women truly believed that men were attracted to a good personality then the world would be full of the most well behaved, funny and warm girls.”

    So true. You DO NOT see dozens of national magazines and TV shows dedicated to teaching women how to carry on a lively and stimulating conversation. No, it’s all shoes and make-up and clothes and hair and yoga and shit.

    Women spend 90% of their waking hours obsessing about making themselves physically attractive and attention-getting, and in so doing have helped create and support several multi-billion dollar industries dedicated to beauty and fashion and fitness, and then criticize men for responding AS INTENDED.

    This inherent hypocrisy of women is the obverse of what they say they find attractive in men — they say they want men to be sensitive and supporting and good providers and good listeners, and then are repulsed by, and vigorously reject, the men who behave AS REQUESTED.

    As someone here said recently, this inherent feminine hypocrisy is illuminated by a simple thought experiment — What if men constantly told women how they should eat as much as they can, and how exercise is bad and wrong, and then when they get fat, told women how their fatness is disgusting and wrong?

    No, men are consistent and up-front in their dealings with women: we say we like the thin and fit bodies, then are attractive to thin and fit women. Simple.

  • FuriousFerret

    Only men with options are ‘shallow’.

    My observations are that men are less shallow in that they will settle for extremely average than women. I’m constantly surprised by the number of decently good looking guys are with plain janes. Well until they open their mouths, then I know why.

  • Phinn

    * ATTRACTED to thin and fit women.

  • taterearl

    Just remember guys why when a gal whines that all men want are supermodels…you can tell her all women want are billionaires.

    I’m sure the irony will go over her head, but it’s good for a reaction.

  • Trini

    @ Taterearl- You are soo correct..They make that statement all the time which just annoys me now.I always say there is a happy medium, and we don’t want supermodels..So the default response when a guy suggest his girl loose weight is that he wants a supermodel. smh..They never think there is a healthy weight range between supermodel small and overweight/obesity..

  • The Shocker

    human beings had sex before books = mind blown

    (human beings played attraction games before english too playas)

    I love really smart girls who act girly. Like, I like to be calling girls ‘little bunny’ within 20 minutes and have them take off their shoes and sit on my lap, it’s so much better when they comply and participate in becoming my toy. This works best on really smart girls who aren’t nerd oriented, like talking about books or putting up intellectual convo blockers. I guess a lot of rocks for brains guys would call a girl like that ‘dumb,’ clueless fucks.

    “I just want to play with youuuu, I want to sit across the table when i take you out and just look at youuu,” drunken singsongy bullshit that’s so fun gets you both horny and doesn’t work on girls who want to talk about the finer points of wittgenstein.

  • taterearl

    I’ll never consider it shallow of telling a woman to keep herself in shape. I work my ass off to stay in shape as a man because I know it benefits me with being more attractive plus it’s a good stress reliever. Plus I like the gym anyway. I walk the walk to back the talk.

    My question is….how many women start to let themselves go after their man lets himself go? Either physically or sliding into beta mode. The man is the leader and I’d guess she’s just following his path of self sabotage. A woman doesn’t live in a vacuum…because I see plenty of single young college aged girls working out to keep their bodies in shape.

  • Bully

    As I say to fat women that complain about the state of things.. where were you when I was busting my ass in the gym at 2am because that was the only time I could work out?

  • JS

    Being called shallow is a good place to accept and amplify.
    Say, yep, I am so shallow, when I see a thin girl with a huge rack I get an enormous erection and my pants explode like the Hulk.
    I’ll bet you get a chuckle and a playful arm punch.

  • Martel

    If a woman got on YouTube complaining about how she can’t get a guy because she’s fat or ugly, sure, she’d get some crap, but she’d also get a lot of sympathy.

    If some dude got on YouTube complaining about how he can’t keep a woman because of his puny package, the response from women would be complete, total, and outright derision. No guys would come to his defense, either.

    Beta females have plenty of shoulders to cry on. Beta males, not so much.

  • Alpha_BetaSpectrum

    @Taterearl

    I’ll never consider it shallow of telling a woman to keep herself in shape. I work my ass off to stay in shape as a man because I know it benefits me with being more attractive plus it’s a good stress reliever. Plus I like the gym anyway. I walk the walk to back the talk.
    My question is….how many women start to let themselves go after their man lets himself go? Either physically or sliding into beta mode. The man is the leader and I’d guess she’s just following his path of self sabotage. A woman doesn’t live in a vacuum…because I see plenty of single young college aged girls working out to keep their bodies in shape.

    I agree with this… Makes sense, her hind brain is like “fat beta now I don’t have to try so hard”

    But also the culture thinks that once you snag that someone, both of you are out of the SMP and can act accordingly, but you still have to attract eachother.

  • Wilson

    Yeah, DNA expression is a pretty deep criterion, and appearance even provides clues to character and intelligence, while a woman who is interested in “a doctor” might not give a shit about the guy personally. Granted, within their standard men will tend to have sex with virtually any willing woman, so there is some truth to the criticism if by “shallow” you mean “too indiscriminate” (and this does indeed pose a commitment risk for women, whose fading looks could soon disqualify them), but the word is usually used by women in a context that really means “not indiscriminate enough”.

  • Emma the Emo

    I’m attracted to ambitionless unsuccessful guys. Therefore I deserve a guy who is attracted to fatness and will tolerate it in me.

  • Emma the Emo

    Jokes aside, both sexes are at least somewhat shallow and that’s that. What we notice first about someone of the opposite sex doesn’t have to be deep and meaningful, we don’t even know them yet :) But if you are into relationships, then some deeper “glue” is necessary.

    Some people in the manosphere like to call women’s tendency to want a relationship the equivalent of shallow. But to that (or any other accusation of shallowness when you express sexual/relationship needs), I find the best response to be “You can do whatever you want in life, but you can’t do whatever you want while WITH ME”.

  • taterearl

    “Beta females have plenty of shoulders to cry on. Beta males, not so much.”

    The way it should be…at least the beta male part. Men complaining about their lot in life is the worst thing a man can do. It basically says “I’ve given up bettering myself.” You have a small package…that was the card you were dealt. It doesn’t stop you from becoming a leader, getting out and approaching women, or finding other ways to raise value. It would be more constructive to ask questions on how to get better than to just complain. I think the reason most men don’t get anywhere is because they get in the way of themselves.

  • FuriousFerret

    “Some people in the manosphere like to call women’s tendency to want a relationship with a guy WAY better than they are the equivalent of shallow. ”

    -There fixed it for you.

  • Martel

    “‘Beta females have plenty of shoulders to cry on. Beta males, not so much.’

    The way it should be…at least the beta male part.”

    Very true. It’s instinctual for both males and females to feel repelled by weakness in males.

    However, we live in a society in which plenty of decent guys were duped into thinking that weakness is some sort of virtue, that being compliant is both sexually appealing and morally superior.

    Because The Matriarchy has actively encouraged weakness in men who otherwise would have ended up being healthy, if I see the chance to get somebody to swallow the pill, I take it.

    The important question to ask oneself is “Am I solving the problem?” Exploring how you ended up a mess so you can clean it up can be productive. Bitching for it’s own sake just makes you even more useless.

  • Alpha_BetaSpectrum

    Absolutely, all challenges have to be dealt with one way or another, sitting there and whining though easy to do, is just a waste on time you can be using to remedy the situation, or grow into a better man…

  • taterearl

    For men anyway…bitching for it’s own sake is just being prideful…just as much as being self absorbed to protect your ego or waiting for something to happen. Most men aren’t rock star or rich enough to get away with having women fall into their lap.

    It takes humility to ask “What did I do to get myself into this?”…or to seek out help from those that figured it out. To go up and cold approach a woman you don’t know…even though you are confident, you also have to be humble to do it because you’ll strike out more than you’ll get a hit.

    For every manosphere blogger or writer out there that figured it out…they had to go through a lot of humility to get where they are.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    I’ve used the words shallow and superficial before. Don’t know about other women but I don’t expect my men to do better than I do in any sphere; fitness, healthy, money making, whatever. For me it would be superficial to ask a man to wax his private parts if I’m not waxing mine. The reverse also holds true. For me it would be superficial to expect my man to make more money than I do or to work out his body more. I think I’m relatively non-shallow. Yes I’m attracted to beautiful male faces but I don’t ask those men to put in more time or money on their looks than I put in on mine. Basic grooming, healthy eating and regular, non-obsessive exercise is all anyone, male or female, needs to look their best.

    Make-up, gym memberships, 3 closets full of clothes are completely unnecessary and who can afford that shit these days anyway?

  • Johnycomelately

    I wonder if their is a female version of Shallow Hal? Heck even the Princess stories have a useless servant getting a prince.

  • AnonWriter

    There was an AskReddit thread today also, where a woman was asking how important looks are to a guy. It was full of guys downplaying looks.

    Here’s the link:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/13i6lx/men_how_much_do_looks_really_matter/

  • Hopeless Romantic

    The Manosphere downplays the importance of looks to women. [You'd be wrong about that]A healthy, red-blooded hetero female is of course going to love looking into the beautiful eyes of a pretty boy and undressing a hot hunk with our eyes. Duh.

    But neither men nor women need to spend a lot of time and money on their looks. Ditch the make up for nutrient dense food and lots of pure drinking water. You’ll get a glow from inside out. Ditch the gym for the great outdoors.

    And quite frankly men don’t even need to shave. Beards can be sexy. Plus, I’d be a hypocrite demanding a guy shave every day when I haven’t shaved or waxed in years myself.

    Looks are important but artificial enhancement is not. Maybe that is what AskReddit guys meant. Because in your culture I see women with tons of cancer causing chemical laden makeup on their faces and bleached blonde hair being called “hot”.

    So maybe those guys were thinking that those kinds of looks are not important. And they are not. They are downright dangerous and bad for health. But I’m sure those guys get attracted to a healthy looking naturally beauty.

  • Lumpy

    anon: 3,2,1 by far. Faces are a matter of preference but 3 has a banging body.

  • YaReally

    Old PUA mantra: “I will not apologize for my desires as a man.”

    I use this a bunch actually. “(something shallow, like telling a new girl I like girls who dress up for me when they come over, because I’m laying the framework for her to expect to have to do that if she wants me to fuck her) I know that’s probably shallow, but I don’t care lol I know what I like.”

    Or about hotness I’ll use “(something shallow, like telling a new girl I couldn’t fuck a fat chick or a girl who doesn’t know how to do herself up) Some people tell me that’s shallow but I say it’s just having standards. :P”

    Try ‘em out. The response to the second one tends to be “me too” because the girls know they’re shallow too, they’re relieved you were the one to say “hey, it’s okay to be shallow around me, I’m shallow too, no judgement here.”

  • Babes Inc

    Let me just throw a few names out there for you: Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brin, or hell, even Mark Zuckerberg…

    These, friends, are among the richest men in the world. And (gasp) they’re all married – to women who are not supermodels. In fact, most of their wives are relatively “average” – by your looks criteria, anyway (See: Anne Wojcicki).

    Now, I want to know this: Why would men who have billions, BILLIONS of dollars continue to stay with someone who is a) their age, b) presumably a depreciated asset, and c) not a super-hot college co-ed in a bikini?

    If you’re going to say “divorce settlement,” save your keystroke breath. There’s not much that $66B can do for Warren Buffet that $33B can’t, AND he married his current wife while he was rolling in it (he knew what he was getting into), AND any of these fellas could hire the best lawyers on the planet to make sure they walk away with their cash.

    The phrase “shallow” applies not so much to your assessment of women as to your line of thinking. If the men who could wallpaper their 120,000sqft mansions with $100’s are still pairing up with women based on their intellect and personal value, and then staying with those women for decades… I say your biological imperative can blow me.

    These men aren’t fools. (And if you’re going to assert some superior, “rationale male” reasoning behind why they ‘fell prey’ to some women, then I have to ask – why are you not ranking in the Forbes Top… anything?). These men could have any woman they wanted, anytime, anyplace, and without so much as a peep from the public. And yet… they don’t.

    Curious as to why? I’d guess it has something to do with their innate humanity. The need for something beyond sex to fulfill their personal needs. The fact that you don’t have that? Fine. But please. Spare us the “woe is me” rants on how society has soooooooo suppressed YOUR natural instinct. A quick look to the seriously ranking alpha males of our society, who could do WHATEVER they so chose, should tell you something.

  • AlphaBeta

    The whole “men are shallow” argument can be reframed to utilize a sacred cow in the current cultural zeitgeist: gay marriage. If men could control what they are physically attracted to, then why can’t gay men simply will themselves to be attracted to women — like how supposedly straight men can will themselves to be physically attracted to fat chicks — and solve all of their problems?

    Game. Set. Match.

  • Anonymoose


    I’m going to have to kill her
    Of course there’s laws which enforces divorces
    I’m send that ass right
    To the morgue miss
    My plans against or shenanigans kinda ran thin
    Knowing nothing about poisoning and I can’t swim
    Bad intentions pumping, might as wall become numb
    Cut her lungs or the obvious robbery gone wrong
    But the catch is do I have the nerve to dispatch this
    Who can I get to help me murder this fat chick?
    I guess I’ll have to play a dude robbing
    On Wednesday the day she usually goes food shopping
    Anyway, long story shor; hit the side of her Chrysler
    And sent it clean over the divider
    You bastard she said as the wreck went tumbling down the hill
    I thought she has to be dead
    Later on, ger a call from a Lieutenant O’Rourke
    Had me leaping like a frog
    “We need you at the morgue’
    So I selfishly pursue
    Boo Hoo there was nothing else left for me to do
    I have to kill her

    What a surpriser

    Screaming who done took my heart
    Acting shaken up a lot

    At the funeral, though everyone was looking at me odd
    Like I did it
    Like I was the reason my mates slain
    Murmuring, I heard he was displeased with her weight gain
    While my secretary, sort of a sexy blonde, can’t look
    All she doea is order from restaurants
    All of the sex you want
    I doubt could address
    Clothes not washed proper and house look a mess
    And talking to detectives that was waiting outside
    How I took a long lunch break day the wife died
    I darn near turned pale
    And because of betrayal
    They indicted me and gave me an impossible bail

    Good fortune to anyone admiring the rawtent
    Moral of the story is desire is important
    So watch your weight it will keep your mate smitten
    It’s a given
    Though looking back I realise I didn’t have to kill her

    What a surpriser

    Well there you have it
    Keep trim keep your marriages healthy
    You know what I mean
    A small message from Morcheeba adn Slick Rick ruler

  • Love's Orphan

    You can have trillions of dollars but thats not gonna glue a hot woman to your side. They will come, sure; but they will not stay long. When you constantly smother her with your negative mindset, she will walk away to fulfill her hypergamy. You are not alpha just because you are rich. Take a look at the latest example: Robert Pattinson. Not just one but three manifestations of power (Money, Fame, Status.) yet Ms. Less Emotions than a Rock cheated on him and he took her back!

  • FuriousFerret

    She simply used selection bias of billionaires that from appearances and demeanor have low testasterone which would make them less into sex to begin with.

    Also most of these guys have probably gotten some on the side.

    She didn’t mention the countless numbers of politicains, CEOs, Athletes, Musicians and Actors that have had sex scandals and that’s the just the ones that become public.

    Her argument is simply dumb. I mean it’s not a manosphere meme that powerful and rich men have lots of sex with hot women. It’s pretty much commonly accepted knowledge.

    When you look at her main point “A quick look to the seriously ranking alpha males of our society, who could do WHATEVER they so chose, should tell you something.” Basically she is asserting that alpha males of our society want women that are the feminist standards of better with maturity, experience and moderate physical attractiveness.

    Anybody that is not a fucking moron or has any common sense would tell you that is simply a stupid assertion. This isn’t some kind of red pill revelation here.

  • Bully

    Love’s Orphan: Balance in all things.

    You can be a Game grandmaster but if you’re too dirt poor to even take her to McDonalds it won’t do you any good.

    Game, status, money, all important, but all subject to diminishing returns on effort expended; so it is best to spend effort shoring up your weak areas instead of focusing all of your eggs into one basket.

  • Love's Orphan

    Right, overall improvement is the ultimate goal for everyone.

  • BC

    Some people in the manosphere like to call women’s tendency to want a relationship the equivalent of shallow.

    Actually, we call that amusing. What’s better is when they feel entitled to it. We call that hilarious.

  • taterearl

    “And quite frankly men don’t even need to shave. Beards can be sexy. ”

    I grew out my beard as my personal middle finger to the Fem Matrix. Turns out more women like it than I thought they would.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Let me just throw a few names out there for you: Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brin, or hell, even Mark Zuckerberg…

    Money ≠ Alpha.

    Gates, Zuckerberg, have always been abject beta chumps. I was hardly surprised to see Zuckerberg’s Asian bride when they married, they know a rich herb when they see one.

    The problem you have is conflating affluence with Alpha dominance, and then falsely attribute some higher sense of integrity to guys who simply have never had any idea of how women work.

    A lifetime of Beta conditioning runs deep, so most beta guys will still look for their ‘soul mate’ even when they have the option of (relatively) unlimited access to unlimited sexuality.

    Just like guys who learn Game, see how effective it is and then singularly focus on using it to get with their idealized “dream girl”, rather than seeing the bigger picture that Game represents. That same dynamic translates to all the men you’ve listed here, but instead of learning Game they either earned or happened into an affluence that gave them the same access Game gives average men. In both cases they still adhere to their feminized beta conditioning.

  • Thomas Gray

    “Turns out more women like it than I thought they would.”

    So true!
    The sides of my chin are actually all white hairs, which makes for an intriguing contrast with my otherwise darkbrown/black beard. I trim it at a medium length, just so it’s brisk but soft, and girls just can’t seem to get enough of touching it once they’re on my lap. Also, I know I’m in when I get a comment about how “interesting” my beard looks (they open me for it). No game required, just take em home by the hand.

  • itsme

    And quite frankly men don’t even need to shave. Beards can be sexy. Plus, I’d be a hypocrite demanding a guy shave every day when I haven’t shaved or waxed in years myself.

    facial hair still needs to be trimmed to look tidy.

    this isn’t about hypocrisy, it’s about personal grooming and looking one’s best. a good number of women find a hairy man attractive, but very very few men find hairy women attractive.

  • Martel

    AlphaBeta: Phenomenal point on the homosexuality thing. I like petite brunettes because I was conditioned that way and it has nothing to do with my biology whatsoever. But if I were into beefy men, that would be ETCHED IN STONE.

    Same goes for the left seeing gender roles as just a societal construct. Boys play with fire trucks and girls play with dolls because they’re CONDITIONED to be that way, even though their organs and hormones are tangibly, measurably, and substantially, different.

    But a gay guy and a straight guy who are biologically the same were born that way and there’s nothing anybody can or should do about it. (In regards to the “gay gene”, the very fact that we have to find so much time looking for one means that it can’t be as significant as a penis or vagina.)

    Regarding the billionaire average-poon chasers, I wouldn’t be surprised if, before marrying, they noticed a pattern in how hot women come on to them and then quickly get bored. An average women may be a “better conversationalist”, but she’s also a hell of a lot safer.

    It’s a fascinating dynamic to me when a male is situationally alpha but a beta with his own woman. Sure, Bella took Edward back, but I bet deep down she absolutely loathes him. “Bastard has everything it takes to absolutely rule me, and everyone thinks he’s a catch, but I know that he’s nothing more that a pretty PUSSY.”

    I noticed the same phenomenon to a lesser degree myself pre-pill. I looked like an alpha, and I get checked out all the time. When we started talking and they realized what a nice guy I was, I could visibly see the disappointment in their eyes. My niceness was a much bigger turnoff that it would have been if I were ugly.

  • Joseph

    ” If men could be socially and psychologically convinced that physicality (their primary determinant for attraction & arousal) was less important than intellect, integrity, or any other esoteric, moralized virtue (or the perception of it at least), this then (theoretically) levels the playing field of intra-sexual competition among women.”

    Hilarious. Women can’t play to their strengths so they decide to play to their weaknesses.

  • taterearl

    I had a discussion at work with some coworkers about those vampire movies…where one of the guys made the comment about Patterson being dreamy to the ladies.

    To which I replied that he was so dreamy his gf went out and cheated on him with an old guy. That got a laugh out of the gals.

  • Martel

    To the hypergamites, being beta if you’re kinda ugly or dumpy is forgiveable. Being beta if every woman on the planet wants you is absolutely unforgiveable. Bella knows the truth about Edward, and although most women probably wanted him to take her back, I bet once this whole Twilight thing fades, RPatt’s fame will quickly fade.

  • FuriousFerret

    ‘I noticed the same phenomenon to a lesser degree myself pre-pill. I looked like an alpha, and I get checked out all the time. When we started talking and they realized what a nice guy I was, I could visibly see the disappointment in their eyes. My niceness was a much bigger turnoff that it would have been if I were ugly.’

    This is so true. Those game denalists that always crone on about how it’s all looks are fools.

    First off if you are a ‘pretty boy’, you get fucked with by a lot of men especially betas with image issues.

    Also you get inital attraction with women but it fizzles out incredibly quick when you apply beta and anti game. Hell I think it might be worse to be good looking and then they find out you act like a loser.

    What the game denalists don’t understand is that good looks is only part of the equation anyway. If you don’t anti game and have good looks, yes you will score. However good looking with anti game, you’re fucked just as much as anybody else. Men are not women, they can’t just be good looking. It’s not that hard to understand.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Why do billionaires marry homely chicks?

    Because they can get sex from better looking women on the side pretty much any time they want it.

    Most women are not equipped to be a good wife AND a perfect “10″ turbo sex machine any more than most men are not equipped to be a good dad and provide good genes. Most men are lucky to have ONE woman so they have to make compromises. When you have more money than God and everyone knows your name, you can have the faithful workhorse at home churning out kids and making sure the gardener and maid get paid every month while you are banging svelte, 20 something groupies in your $1000 per night hotel room.

    Men are only as faithful as their options, and these men have no shortage of options. Alpha, beta, whatever……these guys live an entirely different world where pussy gets thrown at you no matter how much of a dweeb you are. And that opens up a whole world of options.

  • Martel

    Game + looks=tingles
    Game + ugliness=unexpected pleasure, possible tingles
    Anti-game + ugliness=no tingles but expected
    Anti-game + looks=severe disappointment, dryness

  • Emma the Emo

    BC,
    Men’s facination with boobs and vagina are amusing too. They want those things like cat wants a string

    That’s your typical husband, right there.

  • AnonWriter

    @Babes Inc: These guys married more average women because they only have money to offer. Money alone is not enough to keep a good looking woman from cheating on you. Gates, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Brin, they’re all hopeless nerds. They are alpha in their fields, but socially and with women, they are hopeless betas whose billions allowed them to find a partner.

    These guys don’t want some hot woman coming in, making it through the minimum period in the pre nup, and then bailing. Hell no, they want someone who is going to stay with them and not cheat. People are comfortable with partners at their similar SMV or maybe slightly above… too big of a discrepancy is too scary.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    Funny someone should bring the preferences of gay men into this discussion. Gay men’s standards for other men are often sky-high and make straight men look like slouches by comparison. There is a reason gay men are known to groom so much and spend so much time at the gym. If women call a straight guy “shallow,” they should hop over to the gay community and see what goes on. Neither gay nor straight guys should have to apologize for being innately attracted to what they’re attracted to.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “Neither gay nor straight guys should have to apologize for being innately attracted to what they’re attracted to.”

    And neither should gay or straight women. And I can assure you we don’t feel the least bit guilt about our preferences.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    Perhaps you missed the point of this post, Hopeless Romantic. The focus was that women don’t, in fact, apologize for their preference, but men are made to do so. In fact, your rather mindless feminist proclamation bolsters the original point. Here is what the original post said:

    Thus terms like “shallow” and “superficial” are contextually defined from a feminine perspective and, through shaming, serve to enforce feminine primacy.

    There are a lot of applications women will use “shallow” for, but the primary use is to shame men’s natural arousal/attraction cues being based on physicality. As I detailed in The Wall, women have a life long relationship with the impending decay of their only real agency over men – their physicality and their sexual access.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    If it bothers you the best way to avoid being shallow or avoid mating with shallow people is to have 1 standard for you and your prospective partner/s.

    If you want a gym rat, be a gym rat yourself.

    If you want a healthy eater, be a healthy eater yourself.

    If you want someone who cares about clothing and buys a lot of different types to look good, do that yourself.

    If a hair free smooth body is a turn on for you, keep yourself similarly groomed.

    Like attracts like.

    However keep in mind that after 40 its expected and ok for both partners to let themselves go a little. Not blow up to 300 pounds, but a 10 or 20 pound weight gain is permissable. Middle age is a time to relax and chill. Youth is long gone. Time to transition into a different phase of life.

    [So spake the voice of feminine fat acceptance]

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Exactly what I’d expect to read at the end of an overweight aging spinster’s Plenty of Fish dating profile.

  • Demarcated Values

    Damn it, man. I didn’t save that. She was actually supposed to be a little plush, but not overweight.

    Can you e-mail it to me? It was for a project.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “So spake the voice of feminine fat acceptance”

    Not. Its an acceptance of the balding, beer or rice-n-dahl gut middle aged male.

    Don’t tell me you want to be expected to look like this at 43

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/8924936/hrithik_roshan_shows_his_8_pack_abs/

    I mean, for the guys that do, we’ll take it. But most men want to be cut some slack by 40 and compassionate women do that (or become cougars ;) …)

  • Wilf

    Being fit is something you do for yourself. My wife’s or anyone else’s enjoyment of it is of secondary importance.

    As a former fat man, acceptance of fat for any reason is the road to ruin. Any excuse, you can come up with, I’ve probably used it to stay fat in the past.

    It was after 10 pm last night before I got to my weight work-out, and I really didn’t want to get up to run at 5:15 this morning either, but it’s muc better to suck up these small inconveniences than to fall back into the pit of despair that is being fat.

  • imnobody

    Yes, hopeless romantic. Like attracts like. This is why women are attracted to men who have the same income level than themselves.

    If you want to have a guy with a higher income level, you’d better have this income level yourself.

    Women only demand equality when equality suits them.

  • itsme

    But most men want to be cut some slack by 40

    most men are betas. we on this blog are not most men.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Most men also want to be excused from the rigors of hypergamy too.

  • “‘The Bachelor’ Is Sexist” | The Badger Hut

    [...] one-minute conversation was a verbal lithograph of a Rollo Tomassi-esque plugged-in worldview – a female-presumptive narrative where woman is always higher value, no ifs, ands or butts [...]

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “If you want to have a guy with a higher income level, you’d better have this income level yourself. ”

    Most of the men I’ve dated earned less than I did and my husband earns less than I do now. I’ve never been money-minded and would rather do away with it altogether but this is the way we humans currently live and eat.

  • Glengarry

    I guess it’s considered shallow to say “well, I still love your personality, so can we still be friends?”

  • Glengarry

    But let’s think about personality. When you hear the “shallow” aspersion, imagine the woman in question as someone sexually entirely uninteresting, a fifty year old male perhaps. No interesting extras except his personality. Would you make this pseudo-man your friend, your bosom-buddy?

    If my male friends behaved the way women as a rule behave, the best outcome would be kicking them out and cutting them off. Things might well be worse. I’m hardly alone, so women get a lot of leeway and free passes from men for their shitty behaviour.

    And that’s all there is to say about preferring the shallow.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “When you hear the “shallow” aspersion, imagine the woman in question as someone sexually entirely uninteresting, a fifty year old male perhaps. No interesting extras except his personality. Would you make this pseudo-man your friend, your bosom-buddy?”

    Sure, why not? Humans have more to offer than just their looks. Looks are important of course in romantic relationships because looks are a major sexual turn on. But for platonic relationships they don’t play nearly as major a role and often not a role at all.

    I’ve always had much older friends from both sexes who contribute greatly to my quality of life.

    There’s much to be gained from cross generational networks and friendships.

    Who says friends should only be our own age?

  • Glengarry

    Read again, think again.

  • Sitaram Goel Shah

    “. No interesting extras except his personality.”

    This sentence doesn’t make sense.

    You’d kick a friend with an interesting personality to the curb…….. why?

    And that makes sense…….how?

  • FuriousFerret

    @Sitaram Goel Shah

    Hey dumbfuck, if you actually would read the sentence, he is saying that imagine that woman as a 50 year old man so that nothing sexual comes into the picture and you are judging her on her personality. Would you still want that person in your life.

  • Chauvinism «

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  • Lightning Round – 2012/11/28 « Free Northerner

    [...] Do not be ashamed of being “shallow“. [...]

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    [...] desire is a bad–wrong, even. Women are quick to judge a man who merely goes for hot women as shallow, superficial, and chauvinistic. They will then almost always carry on say something along the lines [...]

  • Concerned Scholar

    “If only men are *shallow* then why are things like those string bikinis the girls are wearing even an option? If women truly believed that men were attracted to a good personality then the world would be full of the most well behaved, funny and warm girls.”

    Because both men and woman are so highly influences by culture and media’s definition of what is masculine and what is feminine and what/who is successful. A large majority of gender roles/relations/behavior are all social constructs (and not actually scientific). When you’ve been indoctrinated with media, schools, etc telling you that you have to get money to get a woman, many men and women believe that. When people tell you that the fashion is to wear bikinis, have big tits/ass, and show a lot of skin — and that you need to do these things to get a man, many men and women will believe that. So the expectation regarding the other genders’ behavior becomes that definition of gender.

    In general, the articles and the following comments (not ALL the ideas, of course, but most) just really saddens me because its just loaded with generalizations. I mean you just can’t categorize men and women like this–its dehumanizing.

    [Generalizations & People are People. I refuse to accept that you think men get hard ons for hot women in bikinis solely as being a result of having been socialized to do so.

    Sorry to have to burst your blank slate bubble, but:

    Objectifying Women & Science Daily]

  • Sexual Romantic

    “If only men are *shallow* then why are things like those string bikinis the girls are wearing even an option? ”

    You’re complaining about string bikinis? SMH.

    “If women truly believed that men were attracted to a good personality”

    Why should women “believe” that?

    Men are attracted to physically beautiful women. The good personality is a plus.

    Face it. You ARE shallow. Now get over it already.
    ________________________________

    SEXUAL MARXISM
    The Manospherian belief that society owes me a girlfriend.

    From each according to her ability, to each according to his need.

  • Molly

    Concerned Scholar

    There is lots of science behind these ideas. Lots.

    And I don’t mind things the way they are. Women like power. Men like T&A. Why is that a problem? Just enjoy it!

  • The New Thin «

    [...] what is the single most common shaming tactic women use for men? Painting them as ‘shallow‘ for requiring her to maintain a good shape and be sexually available. Men have far too much [...]

  • julia

    Haha. Men r stupid. It is natural for women to date men who’s taller and has more money. But men call her shallow .
    But men who date women because they’re attractive and then women call them shallow, men get upset.

    The things is is that you’re not talking about women in general. Since all men don’t like ugly, fat fatties then how can u say women r shallow? You’re not talking about women, only the hot ones. That’s OK though.

    As an ugly fat woman myself I could care less wat men say about women. As long as you’re not talking about me and as lond as u stay the fuck out of my way then there won’t be a problem.

    I think feminism should leave men alone so men can fuck with the hot bitches, complain about the hot bitches, treat the hot bitches like shit, tell their hot daughters not to mess with men like “daddy”, and watever it is that men like to do. Let men be hypocrites and let them deal with their daughters or other female relatives. After all, no man wants his daughter to be fucked over by men. But…..its gonna happen. That’s wat men want, that’s wat men get.

    Thank God I’m ugly

  • Jen

    One thing I disagree with is that you’ve conflated hot with sexually available. As a young, thin, attractive woman (and no, not a woman with a long sexual history) I am sick and tired of men my dad’s age hitting on me, especially if they are married. I am sexually available to my 27-year-old boyfriend, not to an overweight 55-year-old. It’s almost insulting that they think we are on the same level, and honestly it just makes me think of their poor wife and kids. Even if they have money (and by the way, even if I were single, money wouldn’t make up for 100% lack of physical attraction) it’s never even enough to brag about. Other women tend to care about money more than me, but even then, nobody is impressed by some obese guy in his 60s bragging about his $50K per year.

    And just in case you’re assuming these guys are hitting on me because I’m ugly, they’re just the lower end of the men who hit on me. My boyfriend of several years is probably an SR9. I’m not a perfect 10, but for all intents and purposes I am very attractive (at least for the mean time, I’m aware I’m going to decline if it hasn’t started already- but that is why I partnered up at a young age to a guy who has an awesome personality instead of just alpha “game” and sex appeal).

  • Sex, Lies and Statistics. |

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  • livingtree2013

    RM, did you actually mean what you said, “The single most common shaming tactic that women use against men is “shallow””? And you are upset about that? Thank god for that! What I wouldn’t do to be in mens’ shoes if that is the case.

    The list of shaming tactics men use against women is so incredibly hostile and hurtful that I can hardly even repeat them, and it embarrasses me you’re even complaining about being called shallow. What I wouldn’t do to be called shallow instead of an fat ugly angry bitch gold-digging selfish feminist whore whenever I speak my mind about something controversial.

    You guys have no idea how good you have it, if being chastized for being shallow is the biggest of your problems.

  • livingtree2013

    Oh, and incidentally, as a woman, I make my selection of relationship companions not based on looks, or money, or ambition, or how much they want me.

    All those things are nice, and sometimes its enough to get a first date, but I my decision to continue dating someone based on one factor alone: does he have class?

    Sadly, this means I don’t find I date much. They get weeded out really quickly. I suggest you guys do the same. There really isn’t much out there to choose from, among men or women I’m afraid, but if we are all making our mating decisions based on…looks, or money, or ambition, or how much they want us… well, then we are fostering bad character in each other.

  • Redwood Raven

    “weeded out real quickly” equates to having standards, which also ties into being “shallow”.

  • Rob

    “….Oh, and incidentally, as a woman, I make my selection of relationship companions not based on looks, or money, or ambition, or how much they want me.

    All those things are nice, and sometimes its enough to get a first date, but I my decision to continue dating someone based on one factor alone: does he have class? ”

    Horse poop!
    - and that’s putting it mildly.

    First you saying you make your selection not based on looks, or money, or ambition or how much they want you and then you double back and say all those things are nice and sometimes enough to get a first date.

    You follow your own rules only when it’s suits you, you rationalize your behaviors based on how you “feel” on that given day, and give me a break on this “class” thing you’re trying to sell us, nobody here is buying that line either.

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