Relationship Game – Wife Sex

At the risk of leaning too far into the Athol Kay demographic, over the weekend I had some thoughts inspired by the Wife Porn thread that I thought were relevant.

It never ceases to amaze me how readily divorced women (and sometimes thrice divorced) are to dispense tips on the makings for a great marriage. Or more fascinating, to hear pussy-whipped husbands parrot these same lines. A divorced guy’s marriage advice is usually “just don’t get married.” So allow me to toss in my two cents here.

In all the years I’ve been counseling men I have yet to have a guy tell me he’s getting more sex now than when he was single or dating his wife, but sex isn’t the issue here – desire is the root of the problem.

As I’ve stated in many previous posts, properly motivated, women will move across the country, crawl under barbed wire and out a 2 story window to fuck a guy she has the genuine desire to fuck. This applies equally to your wife of 10 years. Before marriage women look for ways to get laid with a guy they want to marry, after marriage they look for ways to avoid it, but it’s desire that motivates it.

Chris Rock says it best when he goes into sex after marriage –

“If you like fucking, marriage aint for you. I haven’t fucked in 8 years. I’ve had ‘intercourse’, but I haven’t fucked since I got married. I haven’t had a blow job in 8 years. I’ve had ‘fellatio’ but I haven’t had my dick sucked in 8 years.”

This is the essence of desire after marriage; it generally becomes another chore to add to a woman’s to-do list. Get the kids to soccer practice, go get groceries, fuck her husband and fold the laundry. Add a fulltime job to that list and sleep becomes the new sex. But it’s not about being tired or overwhelmed, it’s about desire. My wife used to work a night shift and if she came in at 2am and woke me up telling me she felt like having sex, I could be in the deepest of REM sleep and wake up to knock it out with her and be ready to go for two, because I want to have sex with her. Women love to play the “but I really want to, I’m just not into it now” card to counter this, but as always, never forget it’s her behavior that defines intent, not her words. Remember, a woman will fuck; she might not fuck you, she might not fuck me, but she will fuck somebody. She just needs to be properly motivated.

Desire Levels

All of those preconditions she had for you to accept YOUR offer of marriage – a good job, be a good provider, a good listener, be funny, have status, being reliable, a good physique; all of that does nothing to increase her desire to have sex with you. The single, bachelor is concerned with Interest Levels, the married man should be concerned with Desire Levels.

So how do you prompt this Desire? How do you get a woman who knows every intimate detail about you for the past 10 years properly motivated to fuck you like she did when you were 20-something? Women will offer the Oprah-correct, “more romance!” and men will roll their eyes and murmur “more alcohol.” Put out of your head right now all of these feminine-correct notions that you need to “rekindle the fire” or find some gimmicky ritual that will lead you back to that desire she picked up from some article in Cosmo – I’ve gone down that road before. ‘Date Night’ is a band-aid for a symptom of a larger ill and this is a prolonged lack of Desire. There is nothing worse than going through the motions of a pre-planned, pre-scripted, ‘date-like-you-used-to-have’ only to have your wife lay on the bed like a dead fish. No amount of opportunity (which is what a date night is, scheduled opportunity) will lead to her wanting to have sex with you.

It’s not about frequency, it’s about quality. Frequency declines after marriage, it’s just logistics (especially after kids), but spontaneity doesn’t have to. Would your wife fuck you in the car like she did when you were dating? Would she be up for fucking in the great outdoors if you were hiking together somewhere? Would she be down for anything kinky that she hasn’t done before or in ages, or is it all just ‘vanilla’ sex now? Here’s a list of things you should do from a a man’s point of view:

Make her want it
If you’ve been married for years, she probably feels pretty secure with you and whatever degree of control she has in regards to regulating the flow of sex. Make her uncomfortable. As counterintuitive as it sounds, this is the single most important advantage you can take. Begin to incrementally take the power that her intimacy has had sway over you for the past 10 years back from her. When you were unmarried even the slightest bit of anxiety that she may be put off for another, better, prospect than herself prompted that desire to fuck you better than the others.

Most important though is to do this covertly. If you go popping off about how you’re taking your balls back and she’d better shape up or you’ll be looking for a woman who is into fucking you, you’re dead in the water. You have to imply with your attitude and behavior that something’s changed in you. The best principle to remember in marriage is that you will only get what you’ve gotten if you keep doing what you’ve done before.

The power of the ‘takeaway’
In one form or another PUAs use the takeaway to shape desired behavior. This is behavioral psychology 101, reinforce the behaviors you want and punish the ones you don’t, all the time remembering that too much reward leads to satiation and cessation of the desired behavior. Don’t buy your wife flowers in order to get her to fuck you, buy them AFTER she’s performed accordingly and to your satisfaction. So many married men I know (even in their 60s ) still attempt to purchase sex from their wives by ‘allowing’ them to buy expensive things thinking it will lead to ‘appreciation sex’. In reality it will invariably lead to negotiated, obligatory and desireless ‘debt sex’. Remember, the pool boy that your wife cheats on you for didn’t buy her a goddamn thing to make her want to fuck him.

Your attention is your best tool in this regard. One thing I tell AFCs is not to give away the farm on the first date and that women are by nature attention craving. When you give away your attention without her having to seek it devalues your attention. This is a paradox in marriage because it’s understood that she ‘should’ have 100% of your attention and over the years there is zero mystery about you. When you begin to take away attention she’s grown accustomed to she will seek it. And again you must do this covertly as she will respond to it covertly. You have to be sensitive to the adjustments she makes in her attention seeking, in conversation, in posture, in habit and behavior, because she wont overtly tell you “oh please pay attention to me.” This will add to her desire to have sex with you in order to reaffirm this attention. Sex then becomes a reinforcer for her in this attention seeking which you can then use to modify her behavior – in this case being genuine desire.

Other forms of the takeaway may include certain regularities she’s grown used to over the years that she takes for granted. One of these is a regular kiss. I used this to a great effect with my own wife. I would regularly come home from work and go kiss my wife as soon as I saw her, she became accustomed to this and after a few years I came to realize that I was like a puppy dog in this regard, immediately seeking affection as soon as I got home so I began to take this away. Eventually she covertly recognized this and began to greet me at the door with a kiss. She was prompted to desire that connection by a takeaway.

Stay in shape
Nothing kills married sex faster than one or both partners letting themselves go physically. Most married Mothers who do so love to use their pregnancies as justification for their lack of motivation and obesity. Arousal is the important component to desire. If your wife kept herself in bikini model shape after she’d been overweight your desire to fuck her would undoubtedly increase. The same applies to you. Every day I’m in the gym I see countless 30 and 40 somethings straining and training as if their lives depended on it. Actually their sex-lives depend on it. For far too long we’ve been taught that “it’s what’s on the inside that counts” and how wonderful inner beauty is. Funny how hard men and women will train once they’re divorced eh? The question is, what is it about their situation that would make them take care of themselves physically that they wouldn’t while married? Before the divorce, they never had the time or motivation, but now it seems they have plenty of both.

By staying in shape – and by that I mean better shape than your spouse if possible – you send a message, not only of confidence, but a covert understanding that she’ll have some veiled competition for your attention via social proof. Thus you not only create genuine desire by physical arousal, but you simultaneously create a psychology of desire by prompting her natural competitive impulses (i.e. Dread).

Dont drive drunk
“It provoketh the desire, but taketh away the perfomance.”

Alcohol is NOT an aphrodisiac. I know that sounds odd coming from a guy who’s worked in the liquor industry for 8 years, but it’s true.  Alcohol does lower inhibitions and perhaps disposes your wife to lovemaking. After years of experimentation I’ve perfected the ‘pantydropper’ – that magic formula of just enough alcohol to get her going, but not so much as to have her passed out over the toilet bowl. Still, sex is better sober and the obvious setback of whiskey-dick isn’t going to improve her already dubious desire to have sex in the first place. Understand the dynamics of her sexuality too. Strike while the iron’s hot and be sure to be up and ready to go at the peak of her menstrual cycle. I have my wife’s period down to a science now and I know that she’s physically ready to rock & roll her best by week 2. Catch her right after a good workout and after I’ve come back from lifting and that’s the benchmark for ‘real’ genuine sexual desire. You simply cannot inspire her to a standard of desire if one or both of you have a depressant in your bloodstream. If anything you want to accelerate blood flow not impede it.

Spontaneous combustion
Predictable is BORING. There’s nothing more predictable than sex with the same person you’ve been getting busy with for 10+ years. Oddly enough the spontaneity principle is exactly why garbage advice like ‘date night’ and “keeping it fresh” articles in Marie Claire sell magazines and don’t save marriages. All of these “freshen it up” ideas are predictable. For all of the wacky ideas you can come up with for ‘new’ sex, you’re still fucking the same old lady you married 10 years ago. You’ve got to be willing to push the envelope with her expectations of predictable sex.  Suggest it when she least expects it. Tell her to flash you her boobs or some other cheap thrill when the opportunity presents itself at the beach or somewhere semi-public. Creating a condition of desire doesn’t have to directly and immediately lead to intercourse. Ask her for a hummer in the parking lot before you go to dinner one night. Even the asking is arousing. And even if she turns you down you can still use her rejection to your advantage since it implies that, perhaps at some point in time, she (or some other girlfriend you had) used to do this because she wanted to (assume the sale). When you do proposition your wife make it seem as if it just popped into your head at that very moment. Again, think covert, not overt. Overt requires planning and planning = predictable and boring. Covert implies spontaneity.

The Cardinal Rule of Relationships 
In any relationship, whether romantic, personal, business or familial, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

This may sound Machievielan, but it holds true, especially in marriage. If you are wondering who has the great degree of control in your relationship the answer is always her. Just like a good DJ knows, she must come to you. If you are the PRIZE and she recognizes this, you will inspire genuine desire. Women don’t want to marry other women (with the obvious exceptions), they want to marry men and you have to man up and be a man to do so. So many married guys I know have walked their entire married lives on eggshells because they put their wives in a position of being the gatekeeper of his own sexuality. “She’s got the vagina man, I don’t wanna piss her off” is the mantra they repeat to them and themselves. This then flows over into other aspects of their lives and places a woman (often unwantedly so) into becoming the authority in the marriage. Just as in single life, if her intimacy is used as her agency to get a desired behavior from her husband that’s the value it has. When you can prove to her that her pussy is no longer a rewarding reinforcer for her desired behavior of you, you remove this agency and reset yourself on at least a partial footing of your prior bachelorhood.

As I stated, women don’t want to marry other women, neither do they want to marry themselves. In becoming accommodating for her by allowing her sexuality to dictate their behavior, men often see identifying with a woman as the best course of getting laid in marriage. And like in single life this ends up putting a man in a sort of married ‘friends zone’, with which a woman feels obligated to have sex occasionally. You’ve got to avoid these traps by maintaining a stubborn sense of your own identity and actively protect against identifying with her.

Wife Porn

I once had an interesting conversation with a married friend/counsel of mine that sort of opened my eyes to something that’s becoming an interesting trend which prompted me to come up with an experiment for the married and formerly married men who read my blog. It should also be educational to see how single guys (or those in LTRs) view this too. So rather than go into complete detail right now about the subject of our conversation allow me present two scenarios for your consideration. Bear in mind these are sexual fantasies and you could easily add details to them that might invalidate them, but the illustrations and guy’s (as well as women’s I suppose) perceptions are what I’m curious about:

Scenario #1
Suppose for the moment you are single, if you’re married now, with no attachments. You and a wing go off to a party to do a little cooperative sarging where you know a good number of attractive women will be present. After an hour and a half you successfully kiss close an HB9 and she’s definitely given you enough IOIs and AIs to know she’d be a great same night lay – the stuff of dreams. Picking up on this, you propose heading back to your place for whatever made up reason you can think of on the spot. On the drive to your place she is feeling you up and all but fucking you right in the car, maybe even giving you head a bit before you arrive. Once there, she strips down to a small bit of lingerie and proceeds to grind and tease you. She then removes everything but her stockings and heels, climbs on top of you and has her way with you, finishing you off with a mind blowing hummer.

Scenario #2
You’ve been married to your wife for five years (or longer). While at work she calls you one afternoon and tells you that if you’ll come home early she’ll “make it worth your while.” You happen to be freed up enough at work to take off early and head home. When you arrive, your wife is standing in the kitchen making spaghetti in nothing but a g-string, babydoll and a sexy bra. She has a bottle of wine and a couple of glasses set to one side and informs you that the children are at her mother’s for the evening. She’s still easily an HB 7 (closer to an 8 in the nightie) inspite of having kids, and her ass looks fantastic in the g-string. After a glass of wine she tells you how hard you’ve been working lately and it’s time she shows you some ‘appreciation’. She begins to give you head in the kitchen, after which you go down on her on the counter top. You take her standing up and she frantically claws your back before she drags you to the livingroom where she rides you in a frenzy rivaled only by the sex you remember having with her when you were both single .

I apologize for the graphics, but it’s necessary. If you’re a married or divorced guy consider these questions:

  1. Which scenario do you think is more likely to be actualized and why? In other word’s which is the more likely scenario to come true in reality?
  2. Which scenario would you rather participate in in reality? Why?
  3. Which scenario do you think would make for the best sexual experience?
  4. Has a woman ever seduced YOU whether single or by your wife?

Single guys can respond to this too since it’ll show a depth of experience, but married/divorced guys, think hard about this. You’re realtively anonymous here so be honest.

 

Now then, the reason I started this experiment is because the friend I had prompt me to this gave me a link to one of the fasest growing sexual fetish (if that’s the proper term) porn sites and this is, believe it or not, married sex. No, I don’t mean cheating housewives (that’s been done to death), but actual married sex between couples that is in fact well done and pretty hot. I wont post the link, but you can Google Housewives 1 on 1 or the like and see what I mean. In each fantasy scenario the husband’s wife (all porn star hot) seduces him with a combination of lingerie, dirty talking, and at least a pretty convincing display of actual desire/lust/passion for having sex with him. After watching the trailer videos I couldn’t help but think that the reason for this becoming such a popular genre of porn is due to an unbelievability that in all rights should be believable, if not desirable. How pathetic a statement is it to think that within all of our over eroticizing society that we should come full circle and have made hot, married sex into sexual niche fantasy?

The reason I proposed the two scenarios was to llustrate just the unbelievabilty of the 2nd one in comparison to the first. The 2nd one being a rough description of one of the vignettes from a particular ‘married fantasy sex’ site. I have a pretty good sex life with my wife, who still looks like a fitness model even after our daughter’s birth. That said I can tell you that nothing would shock me more than to have my wife even remotely concoct a sexual tryst with me like these. It’s not that I have a problem with our sex life, far from it, but it’s that it would rarely cross a married woman’s mind that she would want to seduce her husband.

The default female reponse to this is that it’s the burdens of married/family life that interfere with acting something like this out, or that the man should shoulder the responsibility for keeping married sex passionate. I have to then go back to my conversations with virtually every married man I’ve ever counseled telling me that they are almost universally the initiators of sex with their spouses and this is a point of contention between them. Their initiating – by way of doing all of the romantic preparations their wives tell them is necessary for them to “get in the mood”  – then ends up becoming the catalyst for one more form of stress, since it then conditions her to think that the very behaviors she described as being conducive to her becoming aroused are now associated with obligations of sex. Essentially negotiating sex by proxy. We have to remember that women communicate covertly and when she feels the need to overtly tell a man (what she thinks he ought to know anyway) how to turn her on, sex becomes predictable and routine; the opposite of spontaneous and exciting.

That as an aside, the intent of this was to illustrate that the reason this form of sexual fetish is exciting for married men in particular is that it is out of the ordinary and unbelievable, yet painfully ddesirable. These are hot fantasies because they seem to feel right, yet would rarely (if ever) cross a married woman’s mind that she would have a desire to seduce her husband and make special preparations to do so unexpectedly.

Relationship Game – A Primer

I had a request from a comment thread to breakdown the function of Game within the confines of a marriage or LTR so at the risk of coming off as Athol on Married Man Sex I thought I’d elaborate a bit on maintaining a Game mindset into an LTR today.

Going Alpha

Before I dig in here I think it’s important to bear in mind that the principles of Game do not change in an LTR, only the context does. Every behavior set, every frame control tenet, every aspect of amused mastery and even PUAs skills like Cocky & Funny are all vitally necessary, if not more necessary in an LTR. One of the greatest failings married men begin their nuptials with is starting from a position of Betaness. I’ve encountered, and counseled, far too many men with the same story; they entered into their LTR or marriage from a default position of being the “supportive” submissive partner only to discover Game later in their relationship and then fight the very uphill battle of convincing their spouse that they’ve ‘genuinely’ experienced a radical shift in their outlook and personalities.

If all she’s ever known is the Beta you, convincing her you’ve gone Alpha is a tough road to hoe. An Alpha shift in an LTR is threatening to a woman who’s built a lifestyle around the predictability of the Beta guy she committed to. It stirs up the competition anxiety she’s been numbed to for a long time, and while that’s beneficial in prompting her genuine desire for you, it also upsets her sense of security. It’s for this reason that Beta men are reluctant to experiment with being more dominant; they carry over from their singlehood the same mistaken belief that women require comfort, familiarity and security in order to become intimate or “feel sexy”. They still fail to grasp, even in marriage, that sex by definition requires anxiety to be grounded in genuine desire. Sexual tension requires urgency.

So from the outset it’s important to acknowledge that going Alpha from a Beta default is going to require a measured, practiced effort. The ideal position is to begin an LTR from an incorrigible, irrationally self-confident, Alpha frame and encourage the belief in your partner that it was she who ‘mellowed’ you. It’s ingratiating and ego-flattering for a woman to believe that she has the capacity to charm the savage beast with her feminine wiles.

The Outline

If you are presently in an LTR, considering one or believe that you might be spinning a particular plate that may have that potential, I urge you to read through the Chateau’s 16 Commandments of Poon. This is one of Roissy’s seminal posts and should be required reading for every 18 year old young man upon graduating high school. This may seem like an odd place to begin relationship Game, but these tenets are not only the basis for good Game, but the foundations of a good, masculine primary LTR.

I’ll have been married for 16 years in July and in that time I can honestly say I’ve practiced every one of these tenets to varying degrees. However, I’ll focus on a few of the more contentious articles and explain the premises behind them:

II. Make her jealous
Flirt with other women in front of her.
Women don’t want a Man to cheat, but they love a Man who could cheat. Naturally you don’t want to appear to be seeking the flirtation – that would be OVERT – but rather playing along with it. I have encouraged or played along with casual flirtations with my wife present that leave her with the impression that other women find me desirable. When you’ve been together long enough and a strong emotional bond has formed, you will be surprised at how many shit tests and hypergamous evaluations you can avoid just by her perception of you being a commodity that other women are attracted to. Mrs. Tomassi has told me on at least a dozen occasions that she finds it flattering that other women would find me attractive. Always remember that your attractiveness to other women is an associative reflection on your spouse’s attractiveness to hold your sexual interest in the long term.

The trick to this is how you follow up after flirting. She has to be made to feel as though she’s still the one you choose to be with even though you have obvious, provable options. Women are always unconsciously evaluating the men they are with. Her self-worth is associated with his value. This is exactly why women in the stablest of relationships will still shit test. There are precious few ways for a Man in a long standing LTR to establish social proof and demonstrate higher value better than flirting, or reciprocating a flirt with other women. Nothing stimulates a tired LTR like suspicion and jealousy. Her Imagination is the most important tool in your DJ tool box. The hamster doesn’t stop spinning after marriage, but it’s incumbent upon you to make sure it keeps up the pace.

Far too many guys are too fearful to even attempt this because they subscribe to a scarcity mentality (see Rule 16)

This then dovetails nicely into,…

VII. Always keep two in the kitty
Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need.

I understand this may be a very tall order for most men, particularly those with scarcity mentalities. However, I would interpret this less as spinning plates while in an LTR and instead replace it with keeping your options open. One reason to flirt in front of your LTR is to establish the suspicion that you have those options, and then allay those fears. Again this goes back to being a man who could cheat, but chooses not to. Men think that their dependability and steadfastness makes for a sexualized woman – it doesn’t.

Particular to relationship Game is this idea: Never allow yourself to be a “kept man.” Don’t make the mistake that I’m promoting infidelity by this, but rather think of it as maintaining an ambient, unspoken cognisance that, while she is a compliment to your life, she is not the focus of it.

I’ll be very clear, I’ve never cheated on Mrs. Tomassi, but I do know I could be balls deep in pussy if we ever did split. I know this because I experience the receptiveness of women to whom I do flirt with. I realize this sounds like conceit, but even if I were completely in error about that receptiveness I do know I’m in better shape, have more Game and possess higher status and value than 90% of the men in my peer group. So keeping two in the kitty for me is knowing that I CAN generate options if necessary. This may or may not be your particular reality, but it needs to be your mental state.

V. Adhere to the golden ratio
Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you.

This isn’t hard once you internalize it. Too many guys think Game is a waste of time because it means a constant memorization of scripts and gestures that they can never hope to master in every situation for every eventuality. And they’d be right – if all they did was try to commit everything to rote memorization. But as any good teacher will tell you, that’s not learning. Once the golden ratio becomes part of who you are it’s effortless and becomes your default response. Remember this is an outline. I don’t think aloud to myself “hmmm, well Mrs. Tomassi gave me 3 kisses this morning, I must remember to give her only 2 when I get home from work.” It’s an outline for a principle that you need to get the ‘feel’ for. The point isn’t trying to keep some scorecard of tit for tat exchanges. The effect you’re establishing is,..

it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status.

All the bleating sounds popularized by the post-Wall demographic of women about how there are precious few available men with the capacity to Man-Up and be the high status Men they’re entitled to find their root in this principle. For all the ramblings of the equalists they still betray their true desires in their own complaints – women DEMAND a man of higher status than themselves.

I add this at the end of this primer to address the criticism that will inevitably follow; “So, a wife should just be your doting slave then Rollo?” No, and neither should a man be his wife’s self-convinced slave. If you get anything from my blog it should be this – I am always focused on the Desire Dynamic. A slave might behave in ways that please you, but you cannot negotiate genuine desire, nor can you extort genuine desire. Freewill is an interesting topic, especially in terms of intergender relations, but understanding the dynamics that promote genuine, unobligated desire is paramount to a good relationship.