On August 7th I made the announcement about the Man In Demand Seminar I’d be speaking at along with Christian McQueen, Tanner Guzy from Masculine Style and Goldmund, whom I’d done the impromptu interview with while he was passing through Reno towards the end of July.
In that blog post’s comments a bit of criticism was leveled at both Christian McQueen and myself for agreeing to speak at this conference and in that discourse I promised readers the following:
I’ll tell you what Joe, I’ll give a personal, honest and objective review of the whole conference when it’s done. I’ll make sure I’m present for all the talks (which I was going to do anyway), and I’ll watch that all the money goes where it’s suppose to go (primarily paying for the venue – it’s spendy even by my standards).
If anything is shady, if anything is off the books, if any of the men who attend want to opine about it, you’ll know and read about it here.
You see, I have always had an open forum; if you want to say you got ripped off, be the first to post it here. Unlike other forums and Disqus threads, I neither edit, censor nor ban any critical opinions. I’ll pull blatant spamming, but the integrity of TRM is based on an open exchange of ideas.
So it’s not my rep on the line, it’s everyone else living up to their own. I have confidence in each of the speakers to deliver what they will. If they don’t, I and anyone else who chooses will let you know.
I don’t do this for a living Joe. If the manosphere shut down tomorrow I’d be making the same scratch I do now.
So here now is my honest and objective assessment of the entire conference.
Before I get into the breakdown of the entire weekend I want to first address that not one speaker at this event made money from it. I wont speak for the guys, but I know how much I spent on a flight, my three days accommodations, my transportation (not cheap in Vegas) while there, my food expenses, my drinks, etc. All this far exceeded the marginal profit (about $330) we each made from our appearances once the venue, insurance and security was paid for.
Christian provided all of us with the financials every step of the way up to and after the event sold out inside of 19 days after we announced it. Christian promptly paid us after the event sold out, a full 3 weeks beforehand. Each admission was $46. Divide that by 4 and each man there payed a mere $11.50 per speaker.
This was Vegas. The venue was everything (and more) than I expected. We wanted it to be affordable since travel and accommodations don’t come cheap. Beyond the basic admission we had a limited 4-person VIP dinner at Sinatra in Wynn’s Encore Casino Resort with the 4 of us for a bargain $98.
That said, everything was above board with Christian, all the speakers and every man who attended.
I put a bit of money out to make this happen, and for me it wasn’t anything concerning, but I know it was a stretch for some of the speakers as well as some of the attendees. I’ve always viewed money as currency. Not in the formal sense that money’s a currency (duh), but rather how money is like a current – as electricity is a current – and an energy with which I can do things.
This event was something I wanted to do. That’s not me trying to be magnanimous, it’s just how I approach things I think are worthwhile. And this seminar was most definitely worth my investment.
The Trip
Here’s a Vegas tip if you’ve never been; practically no one rents a car if you’re flying in. If you get a good one, stay with the same driver. The company I work with usually has me set up, but on this trip I got two good taxi drivers, Allan and his brother Jairo. Get their cell numbers and stay with that guy while you’re out. They appreciate it, and you get info on where cool shit is happening.
I wont bore you with the flight or my first night in town, but suffice to say the room was comfortable as to be expected and conveniently located where I needed to be. My evening was spent reviewing my talk and writing out points on flash cards. I treated myself to a couple of IPAs at the hotel bar and met a very hot bartender named Candace. She was 26 and we promptly got into conversation about her LTR ex-boyfriend, her son and where she was on the Preventive Medicine timeline. I mention her here because I gave her a copy of both my books and she seemed fascinated by them.
The Talk
Jairo dropped me off at our venue at around 8:45 Saturday morning. I was pleased to see the security guard we’d paid for was right in front on the street and immediately directed me to the conference room where I was greeted by Christian and our stunning events hostess (easily an HB 8.5 brunette). I then meet up with Goldmund and Tanner and settled in for the start.
The room was pretty hot at first (air conditioning problems), but our hostess resolved it before Goldmund had got halfway through his talk. I had a few men kind of tentatively look me up and down when I got into the room as if maybe they were wondering if it was me. This was my first public appearance so it was a bit strange for me as well. I was oddly more nervous when I first got into the venue and began having men ask me if I was Rollo Tomassi than when I started my actual talk 5 hours later.
Goldmund
As promised I took a seat in the back of the room and did my due diligence by taking notes on each speaker. Goldmund was first and in all honesty he built his talk up much more than I’d expected. What I knew was that he’d give a recounting of his trans-American trek he did this summer. What surprised me was how in depth he went about how getting out on the road both frees and educates a man about himself.
Nothing causes a man to learn more about himself and teaches self-reliance than putting yourself out in the open with only your wit and perseverance to sustain you. Goldmund’s talk was more than just an adventure guide and some video about the women he met and banged along the way. He made an effort to grow from it, not to mention meet and interact with many manosphere personalities along the way.
I was very impressed with his insights about his trip, but also that he made it accessible for the men who were present, many of whom (myself included) were 10-20 years his senior.
Tanner Guzy
I’ll confess, I wasn’t aware of Tanner and his Masculine Style blog until Christian had mentioned his name as a possible speaker for this conference. I looked him, and at first I thought, well he’s a ‘style guy’ – I was wrong. Both on his site and during his talk Tanner brings not just style advice for men, but presents it in such a succinctly Red Pill way I was forced to rethink a few of my own TRM principles about bearing, physical presence and appearance.
I daresay I learned the most from Tanner of all these talks. Granted, Tanner is a professional style consultant and works directly in men’s fashion, but he doesn’t simply suggest men wear this or that; Tanner explains why men should dress to be impressive and why men should care about their appearances.
It’s easy to quote the 48 Laws of Power about dressing the part to have others consider your status, but it’s important to grasp the Red Pill dynamics that go along with demonstrating our strengths, our status, our accomplishments and why what we wear indicates this.
I should add that during Tanner’s Q&A session (easily as long as my own went) I felt compelled to make the point that guys who hate on other men for being concerned with what they wear was in fact a form of intrasexual combat. Tanner had an example of some of his forum haters telling him “only fags worry about their clothes” and “real men don’t think about fashion”; essentially ‘just be yourself’, be manly, wear jeans and a t-shirt and it’s all good. I made the comment that this type of SMV disqualification is comparable to fat girls telling slightly less fat girls they look OK being fat on FaceBook to hold them in place and hinder any ideas of attempting to improve their SMV.
Christian
Christian’s talk, rather speech, surprised me most. I don’t think I was alone in expecting the Playboy game talk in some manner would be forthcoming from Christian, but I couldn’t have been more wrong. He was well prepared with a speech, he primarily read, and had obviously given a great amount of consideration to.
He began with suicide and divorce statistics and wove these facts into what I can only describe as a call to arms for men in reclaiming their masculinity. If he’d left it there it would’ve made an emotional impact enough (his voice choking with emotion during some moments), but the import of his speech was also about men defining masculinity for themselves in a feminine-centric culture that aligns itself against them from ever unplugging from it.
I’ve come to expect the happy-go-lucky Game proponent with the Rat Pack swagger to be larger than life from my 2 interviews, but Christian dropped that persona for this speech and it made his point for him. Goldmund described it as inspirational and motivational, and I’m thankful for Christian for being that at this event – it’s what was needed to round out the line up.
I should add that my good friend Sam Botta took it upon himself not only to fly out from L.A., but he also brought his MacBook Pro and some pro audio equipment to record me. He warmed up by doing a test run on Christian’s speech and while I don’t know when it’ll be available I think the recording will speak volumes about Christian’s actual maturity and the seriousness he’s capable of. It will surprise many of his critics.
Rollo Tomassi
Well shit, what can I say about myself that wont sound like I’m glossing myself? As I mentioned I was very nervous when I first got to the event in the morning and had men I’d only just met ask me to sign their books and let me know how grateful they were for my work. After a while I felt like I was more among a group of old friends than guys I needed to impress and that nervousness turned into a comfort kind of like speaking to a family gathering.
I’m sure that sounds all touchy-feely, but I don’t know how else to describe it. In between speakers I had men come to me, ask me questions, show me appreciation, tell me their stories about their lives and so on, so it put much more at ease. As the talks went on I saw that there were men attending who were obviously my senior – I’d guess late 50s maybe early 60s – as well as young men in their 20s, and this also put me into a family frame of mind.
I understand that my presence was a big draw for this conference. I’m humbled by that, especially when I have men in the military, men and their sons, men on the Vegas police force and men who’ve seen decades more of a feminine-centric society than I express their gratitude for my writing and ideas.
Still, going last has it’s disadvantages, not the least of which was that I’d taken notes of all the speakers’ talks ahead of mine. My head gets filled with things I think need to be expanded on, areas I thought should be explained better, and this then leads to my mentally rewriting my own talk and trying to jot down things I now want to cover too. I had to make a conscious effort to repress this, but I’m afraid some of it found its way into my talk.
As you might guess, I talked about what I know best and this is the influences of Hypergamy on women, men, society, etc. I didn’t mention it, but I had titled my talk Hypergamy – Micro to Macro the night before and this was my basic outline. I began by defining terms because I didn’t want to presume every guy in the audience was entirely familiar with my interpretations of what Red Pill, Alpha/Beta and Hypergamy mean in my referencing. This turned out better than I thought because it sparked a lot of ideas and later discussions while I was in-speech.
For a while I entertained the idea of simply making my speech an hour long Q&A session since so many men had hit me up with such great questions between talks and I really wanted to go into more detail. Instead I opted for sticking to building up Hypergamy from its evolutionary psychology and biological roots in ovulatory shift behaviors, through the personal and sociological implication. After this I held a Q&A and this really developed into the group discussion I’d hoped it would. So in the end I got a happy compromise and I hope I got to all the questions every man had.
Overview
As I said, Sam Botta was my hero for recording the audio of this. He told me I went on for 133 minutes and I can tell you it seemed to blow by so much faster. I will make that audio available for a reasonably purchasable download once Sam has it mastered in order to be fair with those who attended.
It was an honor to meet so many diverse men who’d also made an effort to make this event worthwhile. And while none of us made money from this I think every man there profited from the experience. I met a father and son, I had lunch with my commenter Rugby, I met commenter Jeremy, a Vegas police detective, a former Marine pilot who told me he would be insisting his sons read my books before they graduated high school, and so many more who I don’t have the space to mention here. Thank you for oming to this.
There were no “leaks” of where the venue was to be held. There were no publicity stunts or pandering to contrived social agendas. There were no bomb threats or feminist protests, and, as promised, no video or photography of our guests. I’m proud to say that this conference was well designed and well executed in a luxurious location with every effort made to ensure the anonymity of the men attending and all with the intent of helping each of us collectively learn and grow in a Red Pill awareness.
The VIP after-dinner at Sinatra was fantastic and some of the best camaraderie I’ve had with men I’d only met in person a few hours prior. The women at Encore were top shelf and the martinis were too.
I should also mention that at Encore I was ‘coined’ by one of our Air Force guests who was stationed in South Korea and was in Vegas for the event. Up until this time I was unaware of the significance of receiving an Air Force coin, but it was the highlight and honor of my weekend.
Things We Could Do Better
Finally, at the end of the seminar we had a group Q&A and bluntly asked everyone what we could do to make a (possible) annual event better. Among these comments were a meet & greet or a group lunch which I thought would be good, but also I’d like to open up the VIP into a larger collective gathering in the evening.
My thoughts would be a larger venue, and of course a longer time frame for registration. Maybe a 2 day event over a long weekend with 6 or so speakers would be ideal.
So with that I want to thank all those who attended one last time here. A Man in Demand was as it should be, a collective experience and a collective discussion and that requires all of us being present and relating.
Goldumnd has a great write up of the event here, and Christian gives his thoughts here too. Also, Tanner had a funny video of his trip to the event here.
If you attended or you have and ideas or comments about this being an annual gathering you’d like to see please let me know in the comment thread. If I missed you or you were one of the guys I met or mentioned in this review please let me know.
Thanks gentlemen.
keyser’s comment just made me think of this scene. Now that’s comedy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXD8yOxIPB0
“Don’t talk about having no job, no car, no girlfriend, no future, no dick, okay?”
@kfg
I’ve read D.T. Suzuki, don’t know Qingyuan Weixin. Ha, not enough hours in the day. ‘Zen and the Birds of Appetite’ haunted me for a bit, though I’m not sure I really understood it. Maybe I should try and read it again. Maybe after ‘Iron John’ and ‘Antifragile’….damn the information age lol.
@Softek
Well done. Told ya so, lol.
Quick question Rollo, is there an internet page where all your posts are archived? I already read all your “best of” but I would like to read everything else. Is there a way to find those post else than scrolling down the posts manually to get back to 4 years ago? Thank you.
They are archived by month on the side bar.
@keyser
about time you went full troll.
“Women certainly can love intensely. Very intensely. And genuinely. The problem is it only lasts about as long as a toddler’s attention span. It can be genuine for a day and then gone the next. Being ready for that and being aware of that reality has been a key for me maintaining my emotional stability.” This plays a lot into what I was saying about the solipsism posts. It’s all about a compression of reality into current subjective experience. Memory itself is re-interpreted on the fly to accommodate the current reality. So learn how to master the current reality. Whatever… Read more »
https://twitter.com/sambotta/status/644420875165417472/photo/1
” ‘Zen and the Birds of Appetite’ haunted me for a bit, though I’m not sure I really understood it. ”
I wouldn’t worry about it, Merton didn’t really understand it either.
@Rollo wrote: Christian’s talk, rather speech, surprised me most. I don’t think I was alone in expecting the Playboy game talk in some manner would be forthcoming from Christian, but I couldn’t have been more wrong. I was wrong too. Here are some words from The Real Christian McQueen at the 1st Annual A Man in Demand Conference: You must give yourself permission to meet women and appreciate them for who they are and not who you fantasize them to be. You must give yourself permission to look average in the face and curse its existence while striking out on… Read more »
“Perhaps this isn’t clear to some here the way it is to me. You will get Oneitis if you are not spinning plates. @Softie – you listening? You will not avoid Oneitis if you carry on with one woman. Period. Dot. End of sentence.” There is of course some truth in that and on top spinning plates is always good. But regarding Oneitis it seems possible to understand it in some more detail. In my opinion Oneitis happens when her desire for you fades. Oneitis is your desire for her desire, you had once but then lost. Women can make… Read more »
I’m not gonna comment on everything YaReally said because, as kfg said, we’re way beyond beating the dead horse. I’m just gonna say that the assessment that dressing well is easy is pure bullshit. First of all, there’s a learning curve, second, there is a reason why they call it peacocking. And I say that as a 1,95m tall guy (I think this is 6’4″?) who goes to fashion design college, so you can imagine that I draw a lot of attention everywhere I go. Guys do a lot of what YaReally said of making fun of me because of… Read more »
I feel like my learning curve is flattening out a bit with Red Pill Truths and Internalizing this stuff.
What’s next? Read “The Game” and/or other pickup material?
“YaReally, you seem like a cool dude and you’re right in your main point: looks shouldn’t be used as a crutch and game is more important. But you’re overblowing the argument and exaggerating everything.” I can tell you are young and in fashion school and pulling chicks. Why don’t you live 5 decades and see how your attitude changes. I’m not a Yareally slappy fanboy but I am older and wiser. I never got devastated, depressed or traumatized by a woman ever. What I do now I do out of inspiration in regards to red pill and game. Mark my… Read more »
I think Both YaReally and Rollo are correct and both have compelling and rational arguments. In my experience, looks certainly doesn’t matter and not in the way it matters to us. In fact a guy who dresses really well is seen as Gay to most girls and is very unattractive. One girl I dated who was from Essex said that very thing to me and didn’t find Essex guys attractive for that very reason. For anyone whose from London will know what i’m talking about as many of them pride themselves on their grooming, skinny fit jeans and spending most… Read more »
“I feel like my learning curve is flattening out a bit with Red Pill Truths and Internalizing this stuff. What’s next? Read “The Game” and/or other pickup material?” Exactly what I was gonna ask. While this thread has been interesting (like watching Pacquiao and Mayweather) it holds very little relevance for me at this stage in my learning. Rollo made mention of 3 classes essentially. 1.Red Pill 2.Game 3. Style/Physique I’ve got the Red Pill thing down mostly. Physique is about 50% of where I want to be, but well above average. Style is about 50% of where I want… Read more »
Andy, read:
Jack Donovan’s “The Way of Men”,
Nassim Taleb’s “Antifragile”,
“Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” by Robert Pirsig,
“The Way of the Superior Man” by David Deida,
“Anna Karenina” by Tolstoy,
“The Brothers Karamozov” by Dostoevsky,
Ian Ironwood’s ebooks (married man game),
“The 48 Laws of Power” by Robert Greene,
“The Sex God Method” by Daniel Rose,
“The Mindful Attraction Plan” by Athol Kay,
“Enjoy the Decline” by Aaron Clarey,
Roosh’s essay/book review of Seneca the Stoic (search “the-principal-tenets-of-stoicism-by-seneca” on ROK).
“There is of course some truth in that and on top spinning plates is always good. But regarding Oneitis it seems possible to understand it in some more detail. In my opinion Oneitis happens when her desire for you fades. Oneitis is your desire for her desire, you had once but then lost. Women can make men fall in love by investing emotions heavily and keep it on a high level for some time to build trust in the man and then let those emotions slowly fade. This will create some pull on the man’s emotions.” Seems like a shit… Read more »
@SJF
Thanks, I’ve already read about half of those. Loved Anna Karenina.
Here’s another one I think everyone should read. Awesome.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30360
But isn’t most of this stuff just more internal work?
“Seems like a shit test to me. Searching for beta tells. Gets him into a relationship and then her desire starts to fade. Beta’s will give chase. It’s all down hill from there.”
You’re starting from the premise that the woman of your affections is a shitty woman. Try targeting a quality woman (good luck finding one) and it is all uphill from there to new heights.
Assuming YaReally’s internal game is solid (ya think?), you aren’t paying attention to where a good external game source is. Right under your eyes.
http://yareallyarchive.com/
And Andy read the other half. Everything matters. Your internal game is never complete. Stop hoping for a completion of anything in life. The masculine error is to think that eventually things will be different in some fundamental way. They won’t. It never ends.
YaReally – Coming from PUA: Using game tactical approaches to offset physical and assets
Rollo – Coming from RP: On the base level and purity of masculinity, game is no longer a separate category but a apart of your natural being
“You’re starting from the premise that the woman of your affections is a shitty woman. Try targeting a quality woman (good luck finding one) and it is all uphill from there to new heights.” huh? My point was that in every single LTR I’ve personally seen implode, it followed a pattern. 1. Beta gets girl to go monogamous. (marriage, LTR, whatever) 2. Honeymoon stage. 3. Honeymoon over, girl starts pulling away. 4. Beta chases. The LTR’s I’ve seen that are working out the man skips either step 1 or step 4. Either he fucks around (or strongly shows he could),… Read more »
One of the reasons why I fully stopped reading anything PUA when I found RP. Once you transcend past the basics you don’t need to break down value into category’s, its all simply a part of your singular identity.
Your internal game is never complete.
Yeah, I’m sure. It just feels like everything has clicked into place. Is David Deida going to tell me something that Rollo hasn’t?
Last time I checked my notes on the proper script: 1. Alpha mindset gets girl. 2. He stays alpha mindset 3. He gets admiration and respect. And she desires him 4. Girl stays. He decides to commit. Or not. The proper script needs to be read and followed prior to opportunities with women. Not on the fly or afterwards in reflection. “Yeah, I’m sure. It just feels like everything has clicked into place. Is David Deida going to tell me something that Rollo hasn’t?” Nope. He just phrases it differently and succinctly. And he wrote it in 1997. Most excellent… Read more »
@SJF, There was a time I might have endorsed Athol, but he’s all about the marketing now.
The rest of that list is good though.
Forge, “about time you went full troll.”
Troll eh!
How about you learn Ishmael’s way of talking and go apply for a job?
@CaveClown My point was that in every single LTR I’ve personally seen implode, it followed a pattern. 1. Beta gets girl to go monogamous. (marriage, LTR, whatever) 2. Honeymoon stage. 3. Honeymoon over, girl starts pulling away. 4. Beta chases. The LTR’s I’ve seen that are working out the man skips either step 1 or step 4. Either he fucks around (or strongly shows he could), or he doesn’t chase her when she tests. Give her the power and it’s over, regardless of her “quality” Yup, that’s the outline. Good breakdown. Just this single realization – that the girl WILL… Read more »
Andy, are you asking for good PUA materials? SJF gave a very good list of things that can give you a deeper understanding of inner game and redpill. Sometimes going over the same thing in a different man’s words gives better, more adaptable understanding; Deida is very different in his approach than Rollo, so even though you end up in the same place it gives a different light to things. And people like Jack Donovan analyze different corners of RP application – in his case, how men interact with men. But if you’re looking for more practical stuff….What are you… Read more »
“It’s a hard shit test to pass though, when beta believes that the relationship is supposed to be divine and increasing intimacy forever. It makes the whole deal a pretty hard shit test to pass.” It makes it hard to pass just being in a marriage at all. By definition she has lots of power in the relationship. Sure I can dread her and she sees other women showing interest. But if she wants too, she can nuke my entire life. Reading through the yareally archives, he made mention of men making choices based off personality and life circumstance. Lots… Read more »
“He wrote a book I’m working on with Steve Jabba called ‘Primal Seduction’…
Damn dangling modifiers. Clearly I’m not working on the book with Steve Jabba. I’m working on reading it, and it was written by Nick Krauser and Steve Jabba.
/grammarfit
The Mindful Attraction Plan was written before you stopped endorsing him for good reason. It is streamlined, written for males in a shitty relationships, is practical and helped me regain control of my relationship through masculine self improvement. I’d not waste time on anything else by Athol Kay. And MAP only for those that that have a problem LTR.
CaveClown, there’s lots of things you can do. Some dude at the 21 convention trained porn stars for a living. He had an LTR who didn’t mind him taking 3-6 month breaks to get it out with other women. As he said, “I love her. I enjoy other women.” Owen Cook advocates finding a bi girlfriend who can go out with you and help you get other girls, and even have threesomes from time to time. Lol, most girls won’t get into relationships like this, but it’s a lot more possible than you’d guess if you never give girls a… Read more »
MAP book is good.
But I can tell you from experience that the only thing I got from Athol once he switched to purple is less money, less sex, less power, and more mental anguish from being taught how to and told to chase her.
Apparently she wasn’t fucking me because I was ignoring her love language and not complimenting her enough and based off of her enneagram type that is what she needs in a relationship and therefore she is lacking in comfort and if you don’t provide that comfort somebody else will and, and, and…
“there’s lots of things you can do. Some dude at the 21 convention trained porn stars for a living. He had an LTR who didn’t mind him taking 3-6 month breaks to get it out with other women. As he said, “I love her. I enjoy other women.” Owen Cook advocates finding a bi girlfriend who can go out with you and help you get other girls, and even have threesomes from time to time. Lol, most girls won’t get into relationships like this, but it’s a lot more possible than you’d guess if you never give girls a vibe… Read more »
@SJF I’m not dismissing him, SJF. But I’ve nothing more of value to add to this, so I’ll just remove myself from the argument. Also, nice book recommendations. @Onder “In fact a guy who dresses really well is seen as Gay to most girls and is very unattractive.” They don’t seem to care, at least not here in Brazil. When a girl asks me if I’m gay it’s just the same as when a girl asks me if I have a girlfriend: it’s just her way of saying she’s attracted to me and is a guaranteed lay. Thinking a man… Read more »
@ Rollo In my friend’s words, “The guy is fucking brilliant.” “He’s a fucking genius” “He was absolutely right” “He’s saying the real shit” “He could’ve spelled out my life” “He’s fucking right on the money. I couldn’t believe it” “I just had to tell you how brilliant this guy was. How did he figure this all out and be so dead on the money?” This is my friend with the N count around 1100 who also went through a horrible divorce. Giving him a lot of clarity on his divorce. Mentioned the pivot point and everything that led up… Read more »
But if you’re looking for more practical stuff….What are you trying to accomplish? Do you need plates? Are you married? Looking to bang chicks from the bar scene? What does the future you want look like for you? Basically I’m looking to improve my social game. Small talk is like kryptonite to me. I’d rather gouge out my eyeballs than talk about the fucking weather. I can be gregarious and witty around people I know, but when I’m talking to people I don’t know my mind goes blank. Because quite frankly I don’t give a shit about people I don’t… Read more »
Rollo, YaReally,
Great discussion, Internal/External. Had to let it rest and get some work done today….not much! Friday and all.
YaReally,
Finally read some of your archives…Do you have your own site or only discuss this stuff here and on other blogs such as CH, etc.?
@Softek That’s why guys can’t just read about this shit, they have to go out infield and try it and watch what happens and fuck it up a bunch and learn to calibrate and execute better etc etc. You can read for YEARS before doing your first approach (and some newbies do that) and you’ll walk out and choke on Approach Anxiety and probably not even open. Like, it’s important to teach your brain through actual reference experiences. As Tyler says “your brain wants PROOF not PROMISES.” “Women’s attempted emotional manipulation of men is cute.” This is how I view… Read more »
“I can be gregarious and witty around people I know, but when I’m talking to people I don’t know my mind goes blank. Because quite frankly I don’t give a shit about people I don’t know. ” A blank mind is actually a good starting point. But you must “care” about the other person. In order to game or initiate with women you must ask about her and realize she is solipsistic and only cares about her own emotional state. You have to start her limbic hamster moving. It is not about you when you meet a woman. It is… Read more »
@YaReally
I’d really like to hear your thoughts on Siirtyrion’s studies that contradict this:
https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/women-prioritize-social-status-popular-myth-debunked-part-i/
https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/16/women-prioritize-statuswealth-or-attractiveness-empirical-approach/
I’m not dropping these here to put you on the spot – I’ve rebutted Siirtyrion myself – I’m genuinely interested in your take.
@SJF Missed this comment but this is a good comment overall: http://therationalmale.com/2015/09/16/a-man-in-demand-conference-the-review/comment-page-3/#comment-118824 And ya, a lot of what we promote is pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone. As Julien describes it: “Being outside of your comfort zone IS your new comfort zone.” We push guys to go out because we KNOW they want to just stay in their comfort zone. It’s safe and easy and simple and life makes sense. That’s why a newbie will choose to hit the gym and read some fashion blogs instead of go approach a hot girl in a mixed set, because those things… Read more »
YaReally – “It’s easy relative to approaching hot girls. Take a virgin clothes shopping, then take him to a gym and tell him to lift a weight, then take him to a bar and tell him to go cold approach a 9 and see which one he resists doing the most.” I can attest to this. Under what I call “normal circumstances” approaching is filled with axiety, fear and angst. However under “special circumstances” I have no issues at all. “Special circumstances” being things like; after the fifth White Russian, a dare, my friends are being excessively boring. I find… Read more »
@Rollo “I’d really like to hear your thoughts on Siirtyrion’s studies that contradict this:” Sure, I’ve never seen his site before. https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/women-prioritize-social-status-popular-myth-debunked-part-i/ Jesus that was wordy. If I’m reading it right, I don’t think I disagree with the jist of what he’s saying (tbh I’m mostly skimming it lol). It looks like he’s saying pretty much what we all say: women don’t care as much about Providership (esp in their youth) because there’s no punishment (financial societal physical etc) for not valuing Provider attributes these days and the media is pumping women’s brains full of delusional beliefs that warp their… Read more »
@Badpainter ““Special circumstances” being things like; after the fifth White Russian, a dare, my friends are being excessively boring.” Yup. Just like everyone else who’s anchored their “feeling unstifled and free to express myself and chase my desires” to external things. Why can’t you simply just walk in and see a super hot girl and walk over and approach her as you are, dressed like a scrub etc? Because social conditioning has you convinced that “you are not enough”, that you need a bunch of external value for her to view you as “worthy”. You don’t feel “entitled” to her… Read more »
@YaReally, the reason I have a problem with the 0.0001% thing is that I think Game functions as part of a whole. Just like Krauser saying his approach would be easier and his N-Count would be higher, or his (deep) conversion rate would be more efficient if he’d been blessed with better looks. I don’t know what your opinion is of Nick, but I think we can agree he’s not a rank noob to Game. He understands it on a meta level. As such he optimizes his look, his physique, his dress to make his Game easier. He certainly doesn’t… Read more »
YaReally – “You don’t feel ‘entitled’ to her because your entire life everything has conditioned you to not feel entitled to her.” Exactly this. All of your comments about men not understanding their innate value are gold, and the above just one more coin for the pile. You made a comment awhile back about men freaking out over trying to qualify for a gal that works at Walmart and lives with her parents, I think of that every time I approach now. That, in combination with Rollo saying that you won’t out what you put in, is sort a daily… Read more »
Awwww, goddammit!
275 comments already and it looks like another good thread.
SHIT!
I wanted to get shit down this weekend!
Bastards!
@ Seraph, oh you’re gonna love Monday’s post.
Badpainter – Wanna know something? I’ve never, ever ( that I can recall ) had any anxiety about approaching a woman. But this may be due to my never approaching a woman ( I don’t know ) strictly for sex. Occasionally approaching a woman has resulted in sex almost immediately and I always thought of it as the natural way this particular encounter happened to ” flow ‘. There really is something to this statement you made- ” I find that thinking about an approach as an experiment rather than as a step to a goal eliminates all trepidation. ”… Read more »
@Blaximus,
http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/24/the-flow/
There is nothing I haven’t covered.
Seraph – “I wanted to get shit down this weekend!”
Allow to summerize.
1. Conference went well.
2. High level, master grade seminar on the relative importance of game looks, style, fashion, etc. and the relative importance, at the margins, of game vs. game+attire.
3. Take aways from #2
A. Shower properly, brush, floss, wear clothes that fit.
B. Learn Game, practice game, perfect game
4. Approach, approach, approach regardless of #3A, but with #3B in mind
” Allow to summerize.
1. Conference went well.
2. High level, master grade seminar on the relative importance of game looks, style, fashion, etc. and the relative importance, at the margins, of game vs. game+attire.
3. Take aways from #2
A. Shower properly, brush, floss, wear clothes that fit.
B. Learn Game, practice game, perfect game
4. Approach, approach, approach regardless of #3A, but with #3B in mind ”
Lmfao. Perfect.
@Rollo,
Jeeeezzzzuuuuussss man, doesn’t your brain hurt?
A poor environmentalist will have a 1000 reason to convince you why he prefers a bicycle, if he wins the lottery tomorrow, he would have 5 reasons why a Mercedes-Benz is better.
For all of the back & forth in this thread I will mention this; in our modern day it is easy to adjust one’s style, but that doesn’t mean women will have any better association with style and status. What I mean is I can go pick up a cheap Chinese Armani knock off for $200. Your average woman today couldn’t tell the difference between it and a $2000 genuine Armani. While there is a status association with that suit, clothing has become ubiquitous. In the High Renaissance it was easy to tell an aristocrat by their clothing because the… Read more »
@All – Do you guys understand the value of YaReally here? He’s an actual world-class PUA who has distilled and progressed pick up game to a level that most of us can barely conceive of. Drink his every comment up with relish and verve. SJF posted it, but just in case you missed here is his comment archive – http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/3/#comment-heartiste-654207 It’s like Mel Gibson says in that movie Patriot after reading General Cornwallis’ diary, “I’ve been in the mind of a master. He knows more about war then I will learn in 10 lifetimes” (approximate quote). Get that YaReally is… Read more »
CaveClown: “It makes it hard to pass just being in a marriage at all. By definition she has lots of power in the relationship. Sure I can dread her and she sees other women showing interest. But if she wants too, she can nuke my entire life.” I’ve never been married. I found out something was wrong before going there. But this situation you describe screams: be bold, bluff as necessary, do as if she didn’t have any power over your life. If that’s how it is, you got no other chance anyway. There is always a history and it… Read more »
@YaReally – The actual question at hand in this discussion is whether you would do better in a fine suit than a tee shirt and holey sneakers? You, with your level of game. In a way though, I realize this is a stupid question as at your level it doesn’t matter much. However, also know that not all suits are made alike. A well fitted, fine clothed and tailored suit looks nothing like the piece of shit the average guy gets at JC Penney or Men’s Warehouse. I was talking about wearing a Canali suit (their cut was perfect for… Read more »
YaReally: “What you’re describing here is a really excellent description of a dynamic that DOES happen, but it would be called something besides Oneitis because Oneitis kicks in right from the second you start thinking “this one is special” and you can fall into that trap even when she’s fully into you” How would you call it? I think the issue is: why would you think she is special? What makes you think that? We aren’t fully rational and sovereign agents but often victims to some hormones making us think things. I agree self control is key and a strong… Read more »
“Mrs. Tomassi actually thinks my silvering hair make women more attracted to me . . . ”
That’s what it’s there for. Back in the day simply living long enough to get silver hair implied that you were some kind of badass. Gorillas get silver backs, we get silver heads.
” We aren’t fully rational and sovereign agents but often victims to some hormones making us think things. ”
I don’t think hormones are responsible for ” thoughts ” as much as they are responsible for urges and actions.
Thinking a woman is special is a side effect of heavy social conditioning. Your ” feelings ” can also be heavily influenced by the way you perceive something. Shrinks make lots of money helping people get to the root of their feelings. What causes you to think/feel a certain way.
“I don’t think hormones are responsible for ” thoughts ” as much as they are responsible for urges and actions.”
So why is everyone talking about the power of testosterone? “Go workout, not only for the look, but for the T. Get your T up and watch the changes.” Don’t they say it? I’m talking about using the women to keep your T up.
Hormones trigger behavior, and can definitely influence mood. In fact the rush you get when you’re aroused or feel infatuated or feel jealousy or suspicion of infidelity, all those are founded in hormones and endorphins flushing your system with a chemical cocktail.
Roid rage is a prime example of testosterone influencing thoughts and behavior.
“So why is everyone talking about the power of testosterone?”
Because more often than most people would like to admit our urges are responsible for our thoughts. We are not so much rational as we are rationalizers.
@Ya – On being a “natural”. I’m having a hard time applying game as I was/am a bit of a natural. I do go up and down though in my confidence, it’s weird. But when I’m on, I don’t think about it, I just flow and women radiate towards me, men too. But I have little conscious control over it and when it doesn’t come naturally I get stymied. For me, when I try to apply game consciously, it often fucks me up. Fyi, remember, I’m 53, still 15 lbs overweight, 5’8″ and roll in circles filled with lots of… Read more »
Yeah, but if you have all of your faculties, ( not hearing voices, no multiple personalities, etc. etc. ) you can control your thoughts. Hormones do help to trigger behavior and mood changes, but in many cases thoughts can trigger various hormonal changes. Look at anxiety for example, or our ” fight or flight ” mechanisms.
Hormones will make you crazy horny, want to screw a chick, but they won’t make you think she’s ” special “. That’s interpretive.
True, but your operative state is one that’s being influenced by your biology.
Yes. Agree.
@yaReally
Thanks for the suggestions man. Those Tyler RSD videos are eye opening. You guys are operating on a different plane of existence. It’s exciting to know there’s so much room for growth.
Well, this is a fun thread, lol. YaReally, you got a good grasp on working on your mental frame. Getting positive feed-back, making pick-up fun, etc. A guy putting on a suit for the first time gets some double-takes at first, so that’s a good first step in the game, no? Guess you really need a guy to keep pushing himself out of the comfort zone, but it’s nice to give guys, particularly those with practically zero positive feedback from girls, ever, some double-takes. I think they are good training wheels. Hope the finances work out so you can get… Read more »
Sometimes I think this is part of the disconnect. If I make an economics point here, no nation has ever reached Western-leve productivity except Western nations. Japan and South Korea are advanced, but not even close. Just look at the per-hour stats.
Sometimes I feel like we’re trying to lecture India on building a nation where they don’t have the damn plague and tell them to emulate China, and then YaReally swoops with his F-22s and Ferraris and just laughs at everyone, lol.
Yareally, thanks for covering my question. Appreciate the call to action vibe you always seem to have.
@Rollo Here comes a nice big sloppy one lol this is way more than I planned to write, I was going to just link the videos, but all the videos I’ve linked so far haven’t done much to get my point across so here I’m breaking down a ton of sets step by step to show exactly what the difference between GAME and “game” is and why it makes looks irrelevant: “@YaReally, the reason I have a problem with the 0.0001% thing is that I think Game functions as part of a whole.” The reason a lot of guys think… Read more »
@Rollo “What I mean is I can go pick up a cheap Chinese Armani knock off for $200. Your average woman today couldn’t tell the difference between it and a $2000 genuine Armani. While there is a status association with that suit, clothing has become ubiquitous.” Watch those vids I just linked and read my breakdowns of them and really look at the girls reactions to GOOD game with emotional impact and ask yourself how much these guys having a $200 knockoff suit or a $2000 Armani suit would make. So little difference that it’s insignificant. A newbie should be… Read more »
…shit. I guess I have zero game. *sniff* Took me 54 years and miles of pussy to find this out. I’m not a PUA guy per se. I always believed that guys should use whatever they can to figure it all out, but daammmnnn, these videos were exhausting to watch. The dudes were like fucking hummingbirds flittering around and talking a hundred miles an hour. I see why the average dude gets pensive and confused about implementing these ” techniques “. Whew… I need a drink. Guys say this stuff works, so who am I to judge? They have countless… Read more »
YaReally – “And more importantly…how many of you guys are running game that has the emotional impact on girls that these guys have? And how many of you are running nice safe Krauser/Roosh game? Do you get the reactions from girls that the RSD guys are getting?” I think the question is how many guys really want to? “The funny part is I’m not even that amazing or anything. I’m just a normal dude who trusted guys with WAY more experience than me and put a lot of effort into an exciting challenging hobby I enjoy that forces me to… Read more »
I know exactly where that photo was taken from..
@Ya – Wow. So much triggered for me by this. – SJF was talking about going to your edge and beyond earlier and there is something about that level of energy which is compelling for people. When you are like that you are super-present. – I have been like these guys a few random times in my life. It’s a super confident and dominant state that is at the same time playful. It appears effortless. – The dynamics Julien talks about, giving her a chance to pull you in is crucial. While I mostly don’t do it with women (have… Read more »
Also this polyurethane is such a wonderful smell.
Ya painting a nursery ADBG?
@scribblerg “The actual question at hand in this discussion is whether you would do better in a fine suit than a tee shirt and holey sneakers? You, with your level of game.” No one will believe me but the suit hampers you when you pass a certain point in game. I have to work like a motherfucker to overcome “you’re a player” resistance and “too good to be true” suspicion if I dress up. It’s funny because you can actually SEE it in their body language…if I walk over in a t-shirt they’re receptive because visually I SEEM harmless. But… Read more »
All y’all men here, you see what YaReally is doing right? He’s telling you what it is possible for you to do. He’s trying to infect you with is passion for self-improvement, for living on the edge and making your core so impeccably strong that nothing external can shake it. I wouldn’t ignore that if I were you. That said, YaReally, how many men do you actually expect to develop the amount of game you describe as necessary to make looks irrelevant? You’re saying that even guys like Nick Krauser, who is an experienced PUA, don’t have sufficient game to… Read more »
@Blaximus “So if this works for guys, I guess I am all for it. I still think that if a guy talks to many chicks, and has something to say, and has at least a little understanding of what goes on in a chicks head, he will be successful. I don’t know if many guys can pull off the rapid-fire, herky jerky, maniacal laughter thing. But yeah, there will be chicks that like/love that stuff too.” I agree with you that it gets kind of annoying, which is why I distanced myself from the PUA thing. Although that being said,… Read more »
@Ya – Holy shit. Yeah, an N of 70+ stopped counting long ago, prolly 100 or so_ pre-Red Pill/game. I ran long gambits on the dimes cuz I could win that way, and short game on the lower value women cuz they were gagging for it. But I crashed and burned so many times. I’ve been single for 25 of these 53 adult years so it’s not nearly as impressive as it sounds. I should have done much better and lost far more than I won. There is no predictability to it. I got in a phase where I played… Read more »
@Vitriol – Question: If you could get laid without paying them, would you want to do that instead of using prostitutes? I’ve done both and there is no comparison. I also converted a girl I got a massage from for money into a freebie fuckbuddy so I get there are things in between. But for realz, you aren’t saying you wouldn’t like to be able to get laid without paying, right? Also consider that you have no advice to give worth listening to. Any guy can get laid by a prostitute – that takes no training, just cash. So yeah,… Read more »
@Andy “Thanks for the suggestions man. Those Tyler RSD videos are eye opening. You guys are operating on a different plane of existence. It’s exciting to know there’s so much room for growth.” No prob man. When they started sneaking HD cams into clubs and putting the footage up I was super pumped ’cause we had so few snippets of “real” game up till then. A lot of it was just really descriptive text shit and it’s hard to visualize in action. Keys to the VIP was great but those guys were generally Naturals and not running PUA game. Are… Read more »
@Yareally I know you’re a busy man but you never got wrote a breakdown on the HB10 field report I wrote. Yes I’m being needy because this has been the only HB10 I’ve seen in the past few months. Maybe this can help some other ppl to hit on their HB10 as well. https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/face-saving-recovery-game/#comment-692345 @yareally HB10 field report: Same venue as before in other field report. From holiday weekend. Got there around midnight. Packed with ppl. Went out to patio to get a non alcoholic beverage. Warm up 2set HB6.5: Told them I was a virgin and asked them for… Read more »
@YaReally great insights on the style guide and inner game. But context is everything. Wearing a great suit AND having game gets me more numbers than walking out in a pair of shorts and Hawaiian shirt. Also, I FEEL more confident when I’m dressed sharp out or at a party. If i’m schlepping around in shorts after hitting the gym and see a hottie and get an IOI, I usually don’t approach because my game is off. It’s like Batman and Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne becomes Batman in the suit. Whereas Superman is the Alpha and Clark Kent is his… Read more »
@All – Ding, ding, ding. Belief is just about everything in life. Believing that my looks/suit/car/job are a pull is a way of denigrating myself. The problem is that I believe I’m more valuable in a suit – fuck that shit. But I do like wearing suits – two totally different things. And my life is a testament to what YaReally is saying. When I’m on, I pull outrageous pussy. I’ve fucked chicks in men’s rooms of bars and on 5th avenue in the alcove of a commercial building late at night in NYC. Get them qualifying for you. That’s… Read more »
Forge,
No nursery painting yet….we refinished our floors this week. Or, rather, I chickened out and paid someone else to refinish our floors.
Nursery plans are on the list, but that room is full of furniture, ha. I’ll see if I can upload some pictures to my blog later on this morning, but the Wi-Fi here really sucks.
@ scribblerg My friend’s advice is the same: make them come to you. Make them pursue you. As far as beliefs go: Just the other day I thought I struggled with premature ejaculation and erectile dysfunction. Was reading about it, wanting to get my testosterone tested, etc. Freaking out. Guess what? When I worry about coming immediately, I come immediately. When I’m worried that I can’t get it up, I can’t get it up. It snowballs. I’ve had great sex and lasted as long as I wanted. I know I’m capable of it. The very first night with this girl… Read more »
You can definitely fuck yourself up by having the idea in your head that picking up women is really hard, and that you have to be really good and know what you’re doing in order to do it. You DO have to be really good and know what you’re doing in order to do it, but how well do you think you’re going to do if your primary belief system is, “Picking up women is REALLY HARD. Like INSANELY HARD. Look at how many years YaReally and this guy and that guy had to work at this. This is like… Read more »
“You DO have to be really good and know what you’re doing in order to do it, but how well do you think you’re going to do if your primary belief system is, “Picking up women is REALLY HARD. Like INSANELY HARD. Look at how many years YaReally and this guy and that guy had to work at this. This is like ROCKET SCIENCE.”” Great point. I’ve been stuck in this mindset a lot. I started to break this mindset a bit in May when I talked to a girl in a grocery store and was balls deep an hour… Read more »
@ Cave If you’ve done it once, you can do it again. Where we can fuck up is by thinking of our successes as unnatural or special. This is very much in line with the idea of the “Everyday Mind” in Zen. IMO, guys like us have to practice focusing on ourselves. Don’t focus on how hot you think a girl is — focus on your animalistic desire for her. Is she really hot (to you)? Great. Pull your focus away from the idea that she’s hot, and focus on how turned on you get when you look at her.… Read more »
Funny thing about my soon to be ex wife oneitis? Doesn’t fit my ideal body type AT ALL.
To most guys she was a 7 or 8 when we married. Tall, big tits, hour glass, long legs.
Actually dig the small chicks. Girl I nexted was 5’3″ or so, probably weighed around 110.
I was so immature and blue pill and beta when we married that I didn’t even think about it. So my body type then was “available” lol.
Scarcity mindset sucks.
Valuable time is being wasted.
Game = trying to live with a rabid animal instead of putting a bullet in its skull.
@The Awakened One “Yareally I know you’re a busy man but you never got wrote a breakdown on the HB10 field report I wrote” My bad, check for your name in this space in the next few days I’ll write some shit up when I get the chance @walawala “Also, I FEEL more confident when I’m dressed sharp out or at a party. If i’m schlepping around in shorts after hitting the gym and see a hottie and get an IOI, I usually don’t approach because my game is off.” And that doesn’t worry you? Think about what mindsets are… Read more »
On September 12, 2015, in room filled with men
from different places, ages, backgrounds etc.
(all seats had sold out quickly) …
We were a classroom of students
learning from Dr. Rollo J. Tomassi, professor emeritus.
It’s one thing to read his work
which covers everything that matters,
but experiencing the content,
audibly
or
live in person,
affects ones actions in daily life.
@YaReally feeling inspired by your posts, I went out tonite to my dance party. There was a hot girl I know and hadn’t seen for months. I approached and danced, negged her. At one point I said “You’re like a wild horse…” Her; It’s my personality…Me: You need a strong man to tame you. Her: I don’t need a strong man to…tapers off…I ignore and go one. I pulled her hair, teased her. Then as I was leaving said “Come next week I’m djing… ” she said she would. Whether she will or not isn’t the point. I was trying… Read more »
” I’m finding one of the benefits of getting older and having a stronger frame is that these young chicks are more worried that I’ll screen THEM out isntead of the other way around.”
Silver Head Game: Challenge them on whether or not they are mature enough to come out and play with the grownups. “I am so a grownup” is one of the strongest reflex reactions that young chics have and phrasing in terms of maturity bypasses her reflexive reactions about age.
YaReally,I ‘d like to sit here and reading your stuff all night, but I gotta go out! (Inspiring!)
“It does. Grey hair is in right now. Young chicks love that shit. ”
Seriously? I’m really going out. Thanks.
YaReally – ” If men knew what their real potential was, society would collapse lol All that blue pill shit is designed to keep everyone in society happy healthy and functioning and prospering……..except men. But if you convince men they don’t DESERVE to be happy because they don’t feel like they’re justified in feeling happy by default, then they’ll go along with spending their lives on the plantation self-sacrificing for everyone else. And if you pull that down around him one day and say “ok go be happy” he’ll look at you stunned and say “…I don’t know HOW” He… Read more »
Oh, I had to do it.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opbpBEGR9po?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D
R.I.P. making me laugh and think from the grave.
@Ya – I never said I couldn’t approach if I wasn’t in a suit so I’m not sure where you got that from. Fyi, the FR I gave approaching and number closing the 6.5 had me in jeans and a nice shirt. It was also completely instinctive. Downloaded Pimp and am getting to work. Imagine if I can get this stuff down and nail hottie college students in the town near me? At 53? What a fucking goof that would be. Escalated too quickly to a number close with a 21 year old spinner HB7 today who has been eyefucking… Read more »
@Blax – Great stuff man. I love how you are strong and open to new thinking. The last Patrice O’Neal is just great. It’s also wild to listen how hard the interviewer is dedicated to being a blue pill pussy while he tries to act like a man at the same time. From now on, my approach to an LTR is this. I’m the king, you’re the queen – if I can find a woman who is down with that, I’m good. And of course, the king has to shoulder the burden of performance well and gladly. Ding, ding, ding.… Read more »
@Whoever the fuck got riled up over me referring to myself as a “natural” a thread or two back. See how a world class PUA like YaReally deals with the idea of a natural? No jealousy, no resentment, no insulting – it just is. It also means that my approach is very limited and isn’t adaptive. It makes so much sense to me. It also explains why at some basic level PUA/game was pathetic to me for so long. I had moments of “flow” where I was as good at picking up hot women as any guy could ever be… Read more »