The Second Set of Books

books

One of the cornerstones of red pill truth is in men coming to terms with what amounts to (in most cases) half a lifetime of feminine conditioning. It’s interesting to consider that there was a time (pre-sexual revolution) when a man wasn’t in someway socialized and acculturated in his upbringing to give deference to the feminine or to become more feminine-identifying. There are plenty of other manosphere bloggers who’ll run down in detail all of the many ways boys are now raised and educated to be what a feminine-primary world would like them to be, but at the heart of it is a presumption that boys should be raised and conditioned to be more like girls; conditioned from their earliest memories to be better providers for what women believe they will eventually want them to be as adult ‘men’.

For men who’ve become aware of this conditioning through some trauma or personal crisis that prompted him to seek answers for his condition, we call this period our blue pill days. I think it’s important to make a distinction about this time – whether or not a man is Alpha or Beta doesn’t necessarily exclude him from the consequences of a blue pill conditioning. That isn’t to say that a more natural Alpha Man can’t see the world in a red pill perspective by his own means, but rather that his feminine-primary upbringing doesn’t necessarily make a man Alpha or Beta.

The Blue Pill Alpha

I’m making this distinction because there is school of thought that being blue pill (unaware of one’s conditioning) necessitates him being more Beta. To be sure, feminine-primary conditioning would raise a boy into a more feminine-pliable man – ready to serve as the good Beta provider when a woman’s SMV declines and she’s less able to compete with her younger sexual competitors.

However, there exist more Alpha Men also conditioned to be servants of the Feminine Imperative. These men make for some of the most self-evincing White Knights you’ll ever meet and are usually the first men to “defend the honor” of the feminine and women for whom they lack a real awareness of. Binary absolutism and an upbringing steeped in feminization makes for a potent sense of self-righteousness. Blue pill Alphas live for the opportunity to defend everything their conditioning has taught them. To the blue pill Alpha all women are victims by default, all women share a common historic suffrage and any man (his sexual competitors) critical of the feminine are simply an opportunity to prove his worth to any woman in earshot who might at all find his zealousness attractive.

The Second Set of Books

On June 15th, 2011, Thomas Ball set himself on fire in front of Cheshire Superior Court in New Hampshire. While I strongly disagree with his decision to self-immolate, I understand his sentiment. In last week’s Possession, Living Tree attempted to call me to the carpet about how a man might come to the conclusion of suicide or murder once he’d become confronted with a total loss of all his personal and emotional investment in life:

But Rollo, you just justified murder as “logical”, by illustrating that insecurity is the prime motivator for this man’s life (and many others, I’d imagine). The decision may have be understandable in an empathetic sense, and he might have seen it as logical at the time, but there is nothing logical about it. You are making extreme beta-ism seem more and more like a mental disorder.

Just for the record, I’d argue that ONEitis, however extreme, is in fact a mental disorder.

I haven’t justified anything, murder or suicide, I’ve simply outlined the deductive process men use when confronting the actualized loss of their most important investment (or perceptually so) in life. They are convinced and conditioned to believe that women are playing by a set of rules and will honor the terms of those rules, only to find that after ego-investing themselves for a lifetime in the correctness and appropriateness of those rules does he discover in cruel and harsh terms that women are playing by another set of rules and wonder at how stupid he could be to have ever believed in the rules he was conditioned to expect everyone would abide by.

Suicide or murder is certainly a deductive and pragmatic end for some men, but by no means is it justified. Thomas Ball, for all of his due diligence in uncovering the ugly processes of the American divorce industry, was far more useful alive than dead in some symbolic suicide. He wasn’t the martyr he probably expected he’d be, he’s just a footnote.

For all of that, Thomas Ball and his last message to humanity serves as an excellent illustration of a man coming to terms with his own conditioning. In his message Ball makes a very important observation about his legal ordeals. He comes to understand that there are two sets of books rather than the one he’d been lead to believe that everyone understood as ‘the rules’ everyone should play by.

The confusion you have with them is you both are using different sets of books. You are using the old First Set of Books- the Constitution, the general laws or statutes and the court ruling sometime call Common Law. They are using the newer Second Set of Books. That is the collection of the policy, procedures and protocols. Once you know what set of books everyone is using, then everything they do looks logical and upright.

Ball was of course making a political statement in his account of going through the legal system and the cruel education he got in the process, but when men transition from their comfortable blue pill perspective into the harsh reality that the red pill represents, the experience is a lot like Ball discovering that the set of books (the set of rules) he’d believed everyone was using wasn’t so. Likewise, men who’ve been conditioned since birth to believe that women were using a common set of rules – a set where certain expectations and mutual exchange were understood – were in fact using their own set. Furthermore these men ‘just didn’t get it’ that they should’ve known all along that women, as well as men’s feminization conditioning, were founded in a second set of books.

In and of itself, this is a difficult lesson for young men to learn and disabuse themselves of before they’ve invested their most productive years into what their blue pill conditioning has convinced them they can expect from life and women. However, when a mature man, who’s based the better part of his life and invested his future into the hope that the first set of books is actually legitimate set is disenfranchised by the second set of books, by the actual set of rules he’s been playing with, that’s when all of the equity he believed he’d established under the first set of books counts for nothing. Literally his life (up to that point) counted for nothing.

When faced with the prospect of rebuilding himself after living so long under false pretenses, after having all he believed he was building turn up to be a lifetime of wasted effort, he’s faced with two real options. Recreate himself or destroy himself. Needless to say suicide statistics among men are a strong indication that the majority of men (Betas) simply don’t have the personal strength to recreate themselves. Thomas Ball didn’t.

There’s usually a lot of disillusionment that comes with making the transition to Red Pill awareness. I’ve written more than a few posts about the stages of grief and acceptance that come along with that transition. Guy’s get upset that what they now see was really there all along, but it’s not so much the harshness of seeing red pill dynamics in women or a feminized society play out with such predictability, it’s the loss of investment that cause the real sense of nihilism. When I wrote Anger Management, the overarching reason most men experienced what they called a righteous anger, wasn’t at how the second set of books had been dictating their lives for so long, but rather it was anger at having invested so much of themselves in the first set of books and losing that very long term investment.

The good news is you can rebuild yourself. A lot gets written about how nihilistic the red pill is, but this is for a lack of understanding that you can recreate yourself for the positive with the knowledge of both sets of rules. One common thread I see come up often on the Red Pill Reddit forum is how Game-awareness has completely destroyed a guy’s world view. I get it, I realize it’s a hard realization, but their depression is only for a lack of realizing that they can become even better in this new understanding than they were in their blue pill ignorance.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Badpainter
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Badpainter

Me-
Rich people are rent seekers
Poor people are rent payers

Different T- “This comment betrays a poor ability to differentiate between those seeking rent and those paying rent.”

I hope for the day when a pithy generalization can be offered and accepted without the necessity of offering a boilerplate NA(x)ALT qualification if for no other reason than to save bandwidth. Further a generalization being general in nature does not preclude the existence of exceptions anymore than the existence of exceptions to a generalization invalidates the generalization in question.

Cylux
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Cylux

A baby simply is someone’s responsibility, otherwise it becomes a dead pile of flesh.

The statement is correct. You then projected some sort of judgement about who you think should be responsible.

The reason why I added a value judgement is because the correct statement is actually A baby requires someone’s responsibility, otherwise it becomes a pile of dead flesh. Your framing demanded a value judgement.

jf12
Guest
jf12

@John Dark, thanks for your story, the story of too many. Mine was similar in many ways, a 10 yr marriage w/ children that ended in 1980, and she hated me for letting her get what she had strived for (note my verb choice), and I became painfully skinny.

Jeremy
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Jeremy

@Eris This is why, while I understand where Sao-feng is coming from when he says that only betas argue churn out arguments to those that women make, I do, however, wonder whether, as long as it’s perceived as “beta” to turn round and say “Actually, what you just said is completely wrong, and here’s why… – now stop making it all about you” whenever a female kindly offers to reframe the issue for you, the same cycle will continue. It’s probably as simple as “fool me once…” LT approached this site under the guise of intellectual curiousity. She wanted to… Read more »

Sao Feng
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Sao Feng

LyingTree just wants attention, like all women. Period.

It’s like a woman in her 30s going on and on about why all men are evil. I simply turn my head to look at the younger-hotter-tighter-30-pounds-lighter walking by.

Sao Feng
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Sao Feng

@Rollo

Pirates of the Caribbean. Take what you can, give nothing back!

Different T
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Different T

A baby simply is someone’s responsibility, otherwise it becomes a dead pile of flesh.

Again, the statement is correct.

If the baby is not someone’s responsibility, it becomes a dead pile flesh.

This is getting pathetic.

Different T
Guest
Different T

I hope for the day when a pithy generalization can be offered and accepted without the necessity of offering a boilerplate NA(x)ALT qualification if for no other reason than to save bandwidth.

Agreed. Generally, that is going to require familiarization with the speaker in question and the expectation of good will, neither of which has been established.

Further a generalization being general in nature does not preclude the existence of exceptions anymore than the existence of exceptions to a generalization invalidates the generalization in question.

Correct.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Oh, I missed this gem in a previous read: Fifth – are you saying that being treated equally under the law is a social contract? Since fucking when has the application of law EVER been equal??? I would genuinely LOVE it if it were, but it is not, nor has it ever been. If you try and tell me that its always been in favor of women, I’m going to find you and punch you in the face repeatedly. Here we see the violence inherent in the feminist. “If you say something I do not agree with, I have the… Read more »

jf12
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jf12

Re: books. Most often the second set of manuals supposedly says the same thing as the first set but in an unintelligible language. Wouldn’t it make a great mystery story if, for example, the Russian version of a thick manual on how to operate a tool-and-die machine, accompanying an equipment operator, actually was a bunch of spy secrets he could take anywhere? Who’s going to check obscure technical writing past a couple pages?

Cylux
Guest
Cylux

A baby simply is someone’s responsibility, otherwise it becomes a dead pile of flesh. Again, the statement is correct. If the baby is not someone’s responsibility, it becomes a dead pile flesh. This is getting pathetic. No, your framing is what is pathetic. The baby requires someone, (or something, children raised by animals in the wild have been documented after all, they even grow a thin coat of fur, something or other to do with persistent near-malnourishment) to be responsible for it, otherwise it will die, but that on it’s own does not make it inherently someone’s responsibility. Just because… Read more »

Badpainter
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Badpainter

“A baby simply is someone’s responsibility”.

An existential need does not constitute a valid claim against the life of another.

Eris
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Eris

@Jeremy Despite what I wrote before, I agree; LT has already been refuted time and again. Many words have been written in response to provide counter-arguments to what originally seemed to be, as you say, a genuine interest – she has even featured in one of Rollo’s articles. As such, it’s true there comes a point when her comments begin to resemble mere trolling and attention seeking rather than anything constructive – reading back through her comments, it’s fair to say she has been given more than a reasonable amount patience. @Rollo I couldn’t remember where I had seen the… Read more »

Simo
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Simo

Jesus people. From day one this chick was trolling, getting off on the attention of men she otherwise could never have engaged so successfully in any other social context. If you met LT in real life, would any of you have given here the 20 minute chunks of time it took to write some of the replies over recent weeks? No way. It’s also likely that in person, an array of non-verbal ques would have given away her true intent and undermined the credibility of her POV almost immediately. By arguing with her (caring what she thinks) you are validating… Read more »

Badpainter
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Badpainter

Me- “I hope for the day when a pithy generalization can be offered and accepted without the necessity of offering a boilerplate NA(x)ALT qualification if for no other reason than to save bandwidth.” Different T- “Agreed. Generally, that is going to require familiarization with the speaker in question and the expectation of good will, neither of which has been established.” My mistake, you see my recent rebellion is a work in progress and I sometimes revert to the lessons of a lifetime of Beta conditioning. Therefore I have made the following errors: 1. Presuming that everyone here is at least… Read more »

jf12
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jf12

@Rollo Re: your attention (9/21/2011). Right at the end of that article you mention women preferring covert attentions. I think, maybe, I more precisely identified it as preferring conspiring, in a comment at J4G. I hoped you could give it a look see.

Different T
Guest
Different T

An existential need does not constitute a valid claim against the life of another.

Why would anyone care what you consider a “valid claim?” Why would anyone care that you think you have a “valid claim” to your own life?

Different T
Guest
Different T

The baby requires someone, (or something, children raised by animals in the wild have been documented after all, they even grow a thin coat of fur, something or other to do with persistent near-malnourishment) to be responsible for it, otherwise it will die, but that on it’s own does not make it inherently someone’s responsibility. Just because someone or something has needs does not guarantee nor compel that they will be met, which is implied in the statement “A baby simply is someone’s responsibility.” For a baby to continue being a baby and not a dead pile flesh, it “requires… Read more »

Glengarry
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Glengarry

In the blue pill days, I found it satisfying to be a “white knight” of sorts, helping out, being an altruistic good guy. I now think this came from an underlying belief in “social equity” like Rollo’s “relationship equity” — thinking that it was a long-term investment in institutions and society. Of course, it was bound for the same sort of disappointment as can be found in a relationship, because the expected reciprocity is not there (anymore?). Your reward for a life of toil in the service of what’s good and true is to be taken behind the shed by… Read more »

Badpainter
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Badpainter

“Why would anyone care what you consider a ‘valid claim?’ Why would anyone care that you think you have a ‘valid claim’ to your own life?”

I haven’t a damn for what others care about. If others seek to enforce a claim against my life, well then as the T-shirt says “molon labe.”

I’d be rather more content with, and much less hostile toward, a good faith effort to negotiate my “at will” cooperation.

Glengarry
Guest
Glengarry

“Chigurh prior to killing Wells asks “If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?””

The rejoinder is, “Your actions here are utterly meaningless, simply some patterns of a few electrons for a short time in a vast, unending sea of them; whether you kill me or not, you will be utterly forgotten along with all your deeds; by leading this life, you are merely showing that you are clinging to some futile, indeed banal, idea of power and significance.”

Different T
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Different T

Why didn’t the retarded speaker of the rejoiner commit suicide?

Glengarry
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Glengarry

Suicide? Why should he?

Badpainter
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Badpainter

From Anthem: “I am. I think. I will. My hands . . . My spirit . . . My sky . . . My forest . . . This earth of mine. . . . What must I say besides? These are the words. This is the answer. I stand here on the summit of the mountain. I lift my head and I spread my arms. This, my body and spirit, this is the end of the quest. I wished to know the meaning of things. I am the meaning. I wished to find a warrant for being. I need… Read more »

Different T
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Different T

Have you read the Fountainhead yet badpainter?

If you haven’t check it out. It gives you a window into Ayn Rand and what Objectivism is really about.

Different T
Guest
Different T

@ Glengarry

I don’t understand. What do you think those statements mean?

Glengarry
Guest
Glengarry

That little speech points out that Chigurh’s finger-wagging nihilism (scolding Wells before he kills him) is merely a way of trying to show his own opinions and acts have significance and power; perhaps he imagines himself a grim reaper, who knows, but as a nihilist he should know this too is futile and meaningless.

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter

Re: Ayn Rand

I’ve read everything she’s written. I find Anthem to be the best encapsulation of Objectivism. Though I have a special fondness for Francisco’s speech on money in Atlas Shrugged, Anthem is most readable of her works IMO. As her uber-Alpha heroes go I prefer Howard Roarke to John Galt.

Different T
Guest
Different T

@Badpainter

Is it fair to call you an objectivist?

How do you read the lead female in the fountainhead?

Glengarry
Guest
Glengarry

“Of course, [belief in social equity] was bound for the same sort of disappointment”

PS. To follow up on myself, hardly a new observation even if it felt that way; was Kafka first in articulating this for the modern, bureaucratic, post-christian age?

Different T
Guest
Different T

@ Glengarry

Maybe it makes more sense within the context of the story. I am unsure what the lines refer to.

Was Well’s just being ironic?

Glengarry
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Glengarry

No, I put my own words in Wells’s mouth.

Different T
Guest
Different T

Were you just being ironic? I don’t understand.

Eris
Guest
Eris

@ Different T

“I don’t understand.”

Yes, that’s pretty obvious. Now go and do something else.

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter

Is it fair to call you an objectivist? Yes, with the lower case “o” my religious views are in conflict with the orthodox Objectivists. “How do you read the lead female in the fountainhead?” Dominique Francon is the epitome of unmitigated hypergamy, with the notable characteristic of her being honest* about it. Of course She’s a 10 so she can get away with it. Tooey’s niece is typical of spinning hamster hypergamy, with the usual self deception, but then she’s only a 6. Interesting that this character translates so well into modern America. * “honest” as a woman understands the… Read more »

Different T
Guest
Different T

Have you seen what Rand thinks about the fictional novel?

Given that she was the author of The Fountainhead, what does Francon say about Rand?

What does Rand consider the highest expression of a man’s evaluative ability?

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter

“Have you seen what Rand thinks about the fictional novel?” Best explained by in The Romantic Manifesto when she discusses Hugo vs.Tolstoy. Art, in this case literature, should have positive sense of life. She hates degenerate art. Her understanding of is degenerate is extreme to be sure, given what passes for art these days I find myself agreeing with her more and more “Given that she was the author of The Fountainhead, what does Francon say about Rand?” Rand writes in Jungian archetypes. Her characters are anthropomorphized ideas not people. Highly idealistic, and very Redpill. Francon the publisher, I assume… Read more »

Different T
Guest
Different T

@Badpainter

Are you shitting me? No, I’m not talking about Gail Wyland or Dominique’s father. I’m talking Dominique Francon, the female lead in the book. What does her path in the book reveal about Rand. Given that your interpretation of Rand is, “art, in this case literature, should have positive sense of life,” what does Domique’s path reveal about Rand?

His ability to love.

Specifically, what? She was very clear about this.

LiveFearless
Guest

what passes for art these days

Other sets of ‘books’ exist that answer such questions. Seek…

Heard of ‘Jack the Dripper’?

BlackPoisonSoul
Guest

@Anonymous Reader – for some reason I’m reminded of the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail: “Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being oppressed!” Don’t take my levity as anything personal, I’m simply pissing myself laughing. @Different T (DifferentTree?) – I smell a successful diversion/reframing away from some hypothetical dead-mass-of-flesh baby. So now we’re no longer beating that nonexistent dead horse. But really, is this any better or more relevant to the blogpost? Wait, don’t answer – I’m using logic, that’s not relevant to how you feeeeeel. @Badpainter – thank you for… Read more »

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter

“Are you shitting me?” Shitting you? Fuck off. I suppose I could resort to the power of the googles and play this game, but instead I am working with seven year old memories, and the damn book to get the names. Yes, I confused the characters. You’ll get over it. “I’m talking Dominique Francon, …what does Domique’s path reveal about Rand?” Dominique’s path is from hopeless to happy. Rand is ultimately an optimist, and more than a bit of a romantic. “Specifically, what? She was very clear about this.” Romantic love as the highest ideal. A man love’s what is… Read more »

Different T
Guest
Different T

Objectivism is a very useful case study in the use of philosophy and ideology. For those who have no frame of reference regarding The Fountainhead, the relevant story is as follows. Howard Roarke is a successful architect who becomes disillusioned with society’s valuation of architecture. Instead of bowing to societal pressure, he quits and goes to work as a manual laborer. While there he meets his boss’s daughter Dominique Francon. Francon is attracted to him but disregards him as beneath her. Eventually, Roarke goes back to work as an architect and designs the greatest building the city has seen in… Read more »

Different T
Guest
Different T

Dominique’s path is from hopeless to happy. does not mesh with Dominique Francon is the epitome of unmitigated hypergamy What did Rand’s fantasy do to the male (Wyland) who began as an your “misanthropic alpha,” began a conversion towards Rand’s “rational self-interest,” and found out “rational self-interest” is not all roses? What did Rand’s fantasy do with the female who completely disregarded her values in favor of materialism and societal approval? She fucks the “rationally self-interested” male, marries the wealthy “misantropic alpha,” and within a short span the “misanthropic alpha” is removed from the picture so she can begin her… Read more »

BlackPoisonSoul
Guest

Here we come to the paradox, the cleft stick. If we ignore these types we validate them: “Hur hur you couldn’t refute what I said! Therefore I am right!” Validation achieved. If we engage these types we validate them: we give them attention that they crave, even when they’re obviously wrong from our perspective. The process of engaging typically ends in this manner: Eventually we either swear at them (validation because we’ve been knocked down from our superior intellectual position and lost our cookies emotionally), give up in disgust (validation because we’ve been worn down therefore our position was obviously… Read more »

Different T
Guest
Different T

Yes, I confused the characters.

Do you really think that was just some random error.

Badpainter
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Badpainter

Typical. Yawn.

Different T
Guest
Different T

Ayn Rand in “Of Living Death” I consider marriage a very important institution, but it is important when and if two people have found the person with whom they wish to spend the rest of their lives—a question of which no man or woman can be automatically certain. When one is certain that one’s choice is final, then marriage is, of course, a desirable state. But this does not mean that any relationship based on less than total certainty is improper. I think the question of an affair or a marriage depends on the knowledge and the position of the… Read more »

Different T
Guest
Different T

Full text from wikipedia Branden married Barbara Weidman in 1953, with Rand and Rand’s husband Frank O’Connor in attendance. Branden would later state the marriage was unwise, and troubled from the beginning.[19] In the context of these troubles, and Rand’s reported frustrations in her own marriage, Branden and Rand—who had a passionate philosophic bond—developed amorous feelings for each other, and, with the reluctant permission of their spouses, began a love affair in 1954.[20][19] The affair lasted until the publication of Atlas Shrugged in 1957, after which, according to Branden, Rand became depressed, and the affair, practically speaking, ended.[19] Branden reports… Read more »

Different T
Guest
Different T

Again, At some point you may realize that these manosphere sites are currently just as much a part of a rebellion against order among people as their so called enemies. It is understandable as these males are understandably jaded by the use of authority and social pressure in their past. However, the response of “overwriting or re-purposing by ideology” their ability to serve is very similar to a young female who, after being molested, purposely gains weight or similar so males will find her unattractive. Fortunately for the these disordered males, there are plenty of fatty-fuckers who will whisper sweet… Read more »

Badpainter
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Badpainter

You’re being repetitive.

Which is dull, and tiresome.

Wipe the froth off your chin, it’s undignified. Have some self respect.

Glenn
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Glenn

@ Eris – I didn’t realize Different T was a woman too – that explains a lot about the tedious word parsing and insistence upon equivalence between the manosphere and feminists. I’m glad to hear that I’m not the only one who sees these comments in this way. Although I found Kate’s response more of the same. She claims to of course understand why I might feel that way, but then immediately offers to have experienced “some” of it. Really? She knows what it’s like to be told that her only value was in serving her wife and children? That… Read more »

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter

Glenn- “there is just something so great about a woman under 30”

It’s the hair. To many dye jobs, and other chemicals, loses it’s luster and resiliency a bit with each passing year. Might also account for the “stank.”

D-Man
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D-Man

t. difficile

LiveFearless
Guest

Is Rollo’s wisdom subliminal? In the last paragraph, he channeled Jordan Belfort though this is not reflected in the comments. In case it was invisible, here’s the clear Anthem from the post: The good news is you can rebuild yourself. A lot gets written about how nihilistic the red pill is, but this is for a lack of understanding that you can recreate yourself for the positive with the knowledge of both sets of rules. One common thread I see come up often on the Red Pill Reddit forum is how Game-awareness has completely destroyed a guy’s world view. I… Read more »

infowarrior1
Guest

“I define it as ‘equal under the law’”

Does this take into account hierarchy and the respective duties and privileges thereof?

infowarrior1
Guest

Angry Harry as a great piece on equality:
http://www.angryharry.com/esEqualityNotAchievable.htm

Kate
Guest

@Glenn: The reference to your age was one of deference (my fiance is 58), but if you are going to insist on seeing an insult where there was none, it would be rude of me to invalidate your feelings 🙂

Kate
Guest

All I recall from Anthem was the ending: the couple had escaped into a house in the woods full of books and they just sat together and read. Sounds familiar 🙂

Different T
Guest
Different T

@infowarrior1

That piece on equality blows.

It further enhances the illusion that gender is an engineering problem.

Bring on the androids. Then will the androids be equal?

Different T
Guest
Different T

New designs.

pussytivereinforcement.com

Kate
Guest

Different T: It has long been my belief that machines will not “take over” in the ordinary sense, rather that humans will become the machines themselves. Medical and technological advances are leading in this direction. Rather than continue to be separate entities, I believe we will, at some point in the future, completely merge with our technological devices.

Softek
Guest
Softek

A monk asked Kegon, “How does an enlightened one return to the ordinary world?” Kegon replied, “A broken mirror never reflects again; fallen flowers never go back to the old branches.”
~Zen koan

“Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth.”
~Henry David Thoreau

jf12
Guest
jf12

Re: her game vs his game. Keep in mind that since behavior-wise a woman’s best approach to signal sexual availablitiy is the directest (“Come and get it”), then any sort of complicating factors is a sort of her-game to rebuff sexual advances i.e. shit testing. His game is designed to slither around shit testing, one reason being that if she is saying “Come and get it” to him then no actual his-game is needed: the fruit has already fallen into his hand without further effort. A prime example of her-game, i.e. shit testing, is for a woman to see whether… Read more »

Sao Feng
Guest
Sao Feng

@Jeremy

It’s your choice what you want to do with your time.

When I see Kate, LyingTree and women’s wall of text, I skip through the whole lot.
When I see a beta male replying to women’s wall of text with another wall of text, I skip through the whole lot.

Westcoaster
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Westcoaster

As noted above, another classic article by Rollo. Wow, this stuff is insightful. I didn’t get through all these posts — 250 or so, showing how great this article is. I read Glenn’s story, hang in there. I’ve done the “good soldier” thing all too often, only to get sh-t on my people I thought were close to me.I’m around Glenn’s age, and I work with youth in a counseling position and I’m in the schools, where it’s female dominated in numbers and mentality. I try each day to encourage boys to become men, to become courageous and to advocate… Read more »

Bluedog
Guest

Nihilism is the belief that your choices don’t matter. In my view nihilism is neither “red” nor “blue” pill, though it isn’t uncommon to see Pied Pipers use the Trojan Horse of the red pill to try to draw hurting people into their nihilism, and then over the cliff that nihilism takes them. When all sentiments, theology and culture are stripped away, when all you have left are the bare knuckles and brass tacks, when you get done arguing over the incomprehensible stupidity of whether it even matters that “existence is not a quality” (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116251/best-arguments-gods-existence-dont-challenge-atheists), then you are left with… Read more »

Hugh Mann
Guest
Hugh Mann

“Guys get upset that what they now see was really there all along, but it’s not so much the harshness of seeing red pill dynamics in women or a feminized society play out with such predictability, it’s the loss of investment that cause the real sense of nihilism.”

Oh the years we waste and the tears we waste
And the work of our head and hand,
Belong to the woman who did not know
(And now we know that she never could know)
And did not understand!

http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/21089

Jumungus 100
Guest
Jumungus 100

@glenn Lemme tell you man, reading your posts is like a breath of fresh air sir.. I was one of those Men just like you, that was duped into believing lies based solely on conditioning. I believed my kindness would be reciprocated. Damn was I wrong… What gets me the most though sir, and whats hard to get past is the deliberate LIES about everything. It truly is what they can get away with vs what can I be honest about to further our relationship. It was a haaard pill to swallow. But one that provided great insight and power… Read more »

Jumungus 100
Guest
Jumungus 100

I used to be confused as to y when single mothers have kids early in life from the cock go round or beta breadwinner.. Then as the wall approaches, mid to late thirties, begin to resent said kids bc it interferes w their “nightlife”. Or the belief of it. They resent the responsibility that comes w having children. Screaming all day and cussing.
Its a shame. Used to wonder y she even rejected my teachings…
Don’t date single moms kids.! Friends only. Stay detached.

I thank the world of manosphere for helping me understand why.

Alexander
Guest
Alexander

Signor Tommassi, you’re very talented and intelligent writer. Could you enlighten us on the role of female victimization with regard to their “second set of books” rules? Are they always unwilling and romantic victims as our culture expects us to believe? Why are they always viewed as victims? Also, traditionally, i.e., in the oppressive patriarchic and religious societies, men are expected to protect women and children alike. But then I wonder: can feminists be viewed in the same context, because as I understand it, historically and traditionally men are expected to protect women who submit themselves to their protection. Usually,… Read more »

Alexander
Guest
Alexander

Additionally, I have also read somewhere that guys are sort of “emotional objects” of women “whores” or “jerks”. In other words, playing emotional games, manipulating, using attraction-rejection games, etc. especially when men are young and inexperienced is all about a kind of “emotional objectifying”, because it takes no regard for the subject’s (i.e., man’s) feelings. The difference being that men are not supposed to complain about and just accept that all of this part of women’s nature. I do not intend to generalize and I have known and met some very honest and straightforward women over the years. I just… Read more »

Softek
Guest
Softek

As far as the nihilism thing goes and blue pill to red pill conversion, I just had a sudden flashback to how I felt after I read a story in high school: “Winter Dreams” by F. Scott Fitzgerald. That story blew a hole through me. ~*~*~*~*~*~* He had thought that having nothing else to lose he was invulnerable at last—but he knew that he had just lost something more, as surely as if he had married Judy Jones and seen her fade away before his eyes. The dream was gone. Something had been taken from him. In a sort of… Read more »

Stan Polson
Guest

I’m really unclear on the specifics of this argument. I get what the two sets of books are in broad strokes, but I think LivingTree2013 raised a good question in her first comment that nobody ever answered (that I saw–it’s possible I missed it). Everyone seemed to fixate on who is responsible for the first set of rules existing, but nobody really illustrated what they are.

Different T
Guest
Different T

but nobody really illustrated what they are. The concepts developed in “the first set of books” regard how a society deals with individuals who do not have the capacity to survive or make good on the liabilities they incur, even though they depend on said credit. Primarily, this refers to women and children, though it also includes many developing males. In other words, credit is given to protect and provision for women because they are expected to bear children. Credit is given to developing males because they are expected to become materially productive assets capable of providing credit. Credit is… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12

Re: specifics. The entire manosphere raison d’être, all Matrix analogies, alpha beta concepts, bad boy nice guy distinctions, every bit of everything we discuss on sites like this is founded on the specific observational evidence that women say one thing and do another especially regarding heterosexual relationships. Any elusive unclarity is due to the fact that rational thinking and verbal explanations are best employed in support of the first set of books. If you really need specific background, read Rollo’s magic-mirror funhouse explorations of the Feminine Imperative. The more general concept is basically Hobbesian social contract theory. The second set… Read more »

Cylux
Guest
Cylux

@Different T For a baby to continue being a baby and not a dead pile flesh, it “requires someone to be responsible for it.” You admit a differentiating characteristic between a “baby” and “dead pile of flesh” is that a “baby” is someone’s responsibility. I see you prefer a superficial reductive analysis. @infowarrior1 “I define it as ‘equal under the law’” Does this take into account hierarchy and the respective duties and privileges thereof? It shouldn’t do, no. Murder, should be murder, regardless of how ‘privileged’ or ‘oppressed’ the person committing it is. Anything that aims to provide a ‘leg-up’… Read more »

Eris
Guest
Eris

The only solution for these fem-trolls is to block them.

Different T
Guest
Different T

The social contract is primarily a gentleman’s agreement engendered by technology of (relatively) mass destruction; the women, as history attests, have always been at best reluctant cosigners, marking their X on the book with the fingers of their other hand crossed behind their back. Again, your reinterpretation of history illustrates that you are stupid, or at best ignorant. You do not have access to the relevant conceptions, as those were developed in the legal, financial, and economic fields. Therefore, your reinterpretations utilize the concepts you do have access to regarding obligation, rights, and responsibilities. Conceptions which are basically similar to… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12

Re: I’m rubber and you’re glue.

Tin Man
Guest

An admission, I could only get through the first page of comments, before actually making a comment myself … What I have witnessed over the past 12+ months of reading, learning, exploring this Manosphere/Red Pill corner of the interwebs is, it’s a bright light in the distance for Men that have opened their eyes and realized just how dark their world is. It’s like waking from a deep sleep, and you hear a noise in the other room – investigating it is the only available to you – you have to know where the noise is coming from, is it… Read more »

Tin Man
Guest

@Glenn @Westcoaster

I’m also in the “Men of certain age” category. And when I read the stories, it is truly a “been there done that” moment for me.

Different T
Guest
Different T

@Tin Man

The journey is hard, the road is long, but the destination is worth it.

What was your destination?

Casting off unwarranted obligations and disillusioning yourself about the feminine imperative?

Tin Man
Guest

@Different T

It’s now a WAS, it’s and IS … to become fully aware. In my personal case (because it’s all a personal journey) to shed how I thought the world worked and fully understand how the world really works (and is working today). I’m not even a 10th of the way there yet.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

Regarding the link to the “Your Attention Please” post, another photo use props to you Rollo. That’s been an under rated one.

jf12
Guest
jf12

Back to the topic and that presumption: “a presumption that boys should be raised and conditioned to be more like girls; conditioned from their earliest memories to be better providers for what women believe they will eventually want them to be as adult ‘men’.” For some reason I was flipping through the increasingly misnamed HUS (aka How Not To Hook Up) and the increasingly misnamed agoodmenproject, and it struck me that each and every article was specifically designed to promote that presumption, and viciously attacked (no defense possible) every questioning of that presumption. The purveyors of the Matrix really think… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

When I first saw that goodanproject I said to myself, ” why have only women able to nominate somebody?”

3 seconds later…

Different T
Guest
Different T

“a presumption that boys should be raised and conditioned to be more like girls; conditioned from their earliest memories to be better providers for what women believe they will eventually want them to be as adult ‘men’.” Assumption (an explanation is not going to be provided): The heirarchy among men has been dissolved due to the quest for egalitarian ideals (understandable as the use of authority, etc. in the recent past has demanded some sort of response). Assumption (an explanation is not going to be provided): Women now have the ability to “barter” sexual access and externalize the bulk of… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Guest
Tam the Bam

Yeh go on then R., I give up. The pic at the head of the post. Over my head for deffo, that one. I finally got bored scrolling past the resident laydeetrolls’ slabs’o’grief, and rattled off a quick goog, “bombed out book shop wwII”. There’s something weird about the shoes, specifically the welt (could be DIY resole job), and the physique (even with rationing), so I assumed the figure would be foreign, say French, or a lesbian or something, but the hardcovers on the books are very un-continental (for that time). Apparently not. Just found a bigger, more original version… Read more »

kaizersoze71
Guest

fucking intense but true.

AlphaBeta
Guest
AlphaBeta

“who are pissed because women want the same treatment as men”

Women don’t want the same treatment as men. Correctly put, women want the same treatment as the best men; look up the availability heuristic and the apex fallacy. Sure there are a lot of men who make more money that women, but there are also more men who make *less* money than women (there are more homeless men than homeless women). This is in essence the availability heuristic: when you picture the so-called typical male, what comes to mind isn’t actually typical. It’s the atypical; the apex.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

Isn’t it women want the same beneficial treatment as men but want the same beneficial protection as women? @Tam Think the picture is about various situational requirements that women will say you as a man are supposed to be are vast enough to fill numerous amounts of books. And at the same time requiring how you’re supposed to be means setting things up for what they can get away with. So if you put them all down in writing, they’d spill out on to the street. After all, if you’re set on maximizing your own outcome, you’ll never run out… Read more »

Rol
Guest
Rol

@BlackPoisonSoul I think a lot of men give these women attention on the forum because they still haven’t truly grasped why they’re here. Some of them are more cunning/persistent than others, they’ll pretend like they’re somehow on the same team (oxymoron) or worse, deign to give unsolicited advice as if their input is of any real value to the men here. No different than the way they infiltrate any male activity to get the attention whore fix or to slowly eat away at the establishment to dilute any masculinity and gain control. Around these parts its just a lot of… Read more »

LTlurker
Guest
LTlurker

“The only solution for these fem-trolls is to block them.” Self-respecting men could simply ignore such commenters, rather than call for policy intervention to save betas from themselves. “I think a lot of men give these women attention on the forum because they still haven’t truly grasped why they’re here.” After one round, there’s obviously nothing hard to grasp. Such women are seeking male attention and trying to convince betas to stay beta, feigning conversation as the lure. The men who persist in providing this attention are reciprocally seeking female attention. “When I see Kate, LyingTree and women’s wall of… Read more »

yes, it's a woman
Guest
yes, it's a woman

I just read Thomas Ball’s statement. Profoundly sad situation. Absolutely no winners.

FullyAwake
Guest
FullyAwake

“Another manifestation of this phenomenon is that it creates males with “daddy issues.” That it is to say, they have never learned to differentiate between legitimate authority and illegitimate authority. This confusion leads to the glorification of “personal liberty” as the prime value in interpersonal relations.” Which is how feminism came into being. To see this, one need only change the genders in the quote. “Another manifestation of this phenomenon is that it creates women with “mommy issues.” That it is to say, they have never learned to differentiate between legitimate authority and illegitimate authority. This confusion leads to the… Read more »

FullyAwake
Guest
FullyAwake

“DeNihilist
January 15th, 2014 at 10:35 am

I think this says it all

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=250317091796419

Proof positive that I’m a misogynist. I laughed all the way through that one. Thanks!

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