Sunshine Mary proposed an interesting question in a comment thread last week:
Knowing what we know about hypergamy – that it’s inborn and does not give a crap – and also what we know about women’s attraction cues swaying toward much more alpha men during ovulation…can men deal with the thought of living with someone who is having to fight against (presuming she’s fighting against it) a general innate desire to trade up and a specific desire to stray with an alpha male during ovulation?
The short answer to this is yes, in fact men have socially and psychologically evolved contingencies to mitigate hypergamy since our hunter-gatherer beginnings. You could even argue that much of our cultural and species-level achievements were the result of men’s latent drives to deal with women’s innate hypergamy.
The common mistake Mary is making here is to presume that hypergamy’s natural state is in a vacuum. Hypergamy is not static. The capacity an individual woman possesses to optimize hypergamy is specific to that woman. There are many complex variables that affect what contributes to a woman’s self-perception of her sexual market valuation.
For a general instance, a hot 22 y.o. coed will generally be more predisposed to her hypergamous impulses because she has the capacity to capitalize on it better than a 44 y.o. divorced mother of two. Too many guys think that hypergamy requires this endless attending to, but with the exception of outlying women, women
will should regulate their hypergamy based on their self-perceived capacity to optimize it.
Simply because a woman’s natural state is hypergamy doesn’t mean she is able to optimize it. She may lack opportunity (i.e no Alpha men in the right place or at the right time), she may lack the physical appeal, she may have internalized beliefs that cause her to be more self-conscious, she may have self-esteem issues (over and under inflated), or she may simply be acculturated in a society that enforces limits upon her capacity to optimize hypergamy. All of these limiting conditions contend with her innate hypergamous impulse.
This is the primary struggle women face; managing these limiting factors in the face of a hardwired hypergamy, while facing the constant, inevitable, progression towards the Wall. Cash in too early and face the nagging doubt she could’ve consolidated with a better man’s commitment. Cash in too late and live with the consequences of settling for the man her looks, personal conditions and societal influences allowed her to consolidate on (Alpha Widows). Remember, all of this occurs within the framework of the varying personal limitations (or benefits) she has a capacity for.
One common misunderstanding I think most guys have about hypergamy is that it requires a constant attention. Most MGTOWs follow this logic to some degree, thinking that the effort necessary to contain women’s hypergamy means this endless mindreading and jumping through vaginal hoops in order to maintain some balance and harmony in any relationship with a woman. They think the pay off isn’t worth the effort, and by their individual case they may be correct, but what they don’t account for is the natural balance between the genders that is already existent. Hypergamy is far easier to contain the less a woman is able to capitalize on it.
Imposing limitations on women’s hypergamy is really a matter of application. Why is our reflexive response to label possessive men as ‘insecure’? Because underneath his overt controlling we believe a man lacks the capacity to inspire genuine desire in his woman, thus prompting her to self-regulate her own hypergamy. Yet, we still consider Mate Guarding to be wise in a measured application. So there you have the line in controlling hypergamy – like virtually anything else in Game, apply it overtly and you appear ‘insecure’, apply it covertly and you seem confident and in control.
To really grasp this you have to also take into account the Alpha/Beta response dynamic. Women’s hypergamy will predispose even the woman with the most secure attachement to her mate to shit test him. When men become aware of this their rational minds see it as insecurity and a nuisance that they will constantly have to deal with. However, nature has engineered into our own psyches the means to deal with these tests in ways we’re not really aware of. I’ve experienced even the most beta of men put their foot down after a particularly mean shit test and basically tell their wives or GFs to STFU. It came from exasperation, but that provokation and the response their woman got for it was exactly passing the test. They didn’t realize they were doing it, they were just pissed, lost their temper and later maybe apologized for acting so brash, but this was exactly what their women’s hypergamy needed to confirm that he isn’t a pushover.
Mate guarding is another of these subliminal efforts to contain hypergamy. Most (generally beta) men don’t realize that they are manifesting mate guarding behaviors at exactly the time his woman is ovulating and more aroused by the sperm of the unfamiliar Alpha. Her disposition manifests in behavioral cues that his evolved psyche registers and reflexively triggers his own subconscious mate guarding behaviors – all in a naturalized effort to contain her innate hypergamy. Nature is already aware of hypergamy and has evolved contingencies to limit it.
Another aspect of limiting hypergamy is the inter-sexual competition women subject each other to in the sexual marketplace. Amongst women, hypergamy is essentially a race to the top. The higher value resources (high SMV men) drive down the cost (effort) for the lower value ones. The highest value men cascade down in value by the frequency of lower value men, but hypergamy doesn’t seek its own level, it always defaults to a better optimization. For a woman, the biological jackpot is to secure a commitment of genetics and resources from a mate who registers higher than herself in SMV valuation.
The very nature of hypergamy has a culling effect amongst women. As if the pressures to optimize hypergamy weren’t urgent enough in the light of her personal conditions and the impending Wall, add to this an unforgiving inter-sexual competition that mitigates hypergamy.
If a guy swings drastically toward the beta chump side of the bell curve, this may well trigger a new self-perception for a woman and reinvigorate her hypergamous impulse. Likewise social media is contributing to new generations of women who lack a realistic self-image with regard to SMV and thus a false perception of their capacity to optimize their hypergamy. Women’s overinflated sense of SMV and all the contributing factors to it is a manosphere meme now. All of these factors and more upset the balance of the feminine imperative with the masculine and demand new social and psychological adaptations
Many a manosphere commenter will tell you how unbound women’s hypergamous nature has become since the rise of feminism, fem-centrism and the multi-generational push to feminize every aspect of western culture. While it’s true that hypergamy doesn’t care, and many a man suffers the unprepared consequences of outdated expectations of relational equity, I don’t believe the cultural shift towards the primacy of the feminine imperative is the doom of modern society.
To be sure the sexual revolution and feminine-ubiquitous hormonal birth control has radically shifted primacy to the feminine imperative and its prime directive of hypergamy, but what this means is a readjustment of the masculine imperative is now necessary. With the rise of the internet and the meta Game that is the manosphere I think we’re seeing this adjustment in its beginnings. In our past, society and nature evolved ways to contain hypergamy in ways we’re only peripherally aware of today, but they were serviceable contingencies that kept hypergamy in check. That balance will return eventually, either by men opting out of the traditional measures or women coming to a generational realization of the predicament unbridled hypergamy and the consequences of the falsehoods fem-centrism has brought to their mothers and grandmothers.
No matter how frustrating dealing with hypergamy can be and no matter how low a man resides on SMV totem pole, I think every man can take comfort in the fact that at the end of the day he is a man. We can make moves and improve ourself and become more attractive human beings with focus and hard work if we really want it. A physically I attractive women is basically stuck. Not true with us.
99% of women can’t trade up, even if they want to. That pretty much makes the whole thing a joke.
A positive conclusion. How nice! Looking forward to the book 🙂
While the pendulum will swing the other way in regards to “femcentrism”, this swinging will be a very painful process. The inability of women to see themselves as the problem ….combined with the liberal ideology of a malevolent patriarchy ….combined with the conservative white-knight ideology ….will predispose society in the direction of “control”. Much like we see now in all other aspects political (domestic drones, capital controls, weapon control, etc,….) we will continue to see “the machine” chase down men for both money and accountability, regardless of whether they are the party that can provide either. To put it bluntly,… Read more »
> I’ve experienced even the most beta of men put their foot down after a particularly mean shit test and basically tell their wives or GFs to STFU. It came from exasperation, but that provokation and the response their woman got for it was exactly passing the test. So true. I was super beta during my (failed) marriage, and the wife at the time loved starting trouble over irrelevant shit. Most of the time I did my best to stay caring and positive, because I knew it came from a place of insecurity on her part, but she would only… Read more »
“…I don’t believe the cultural shift towards the primacy of the feminine imperative is the doom of modern society.” No, definitely not, but I can see why some manospherians see it that way. Plus, doom of society is not the same as decline, and there’s no denying the anglosphere is in sharp decline. Which leads to the stuff Danger is talking about in his comment above. This is probably a good time to point out that in hunter-gatherer cultures, the feminine imperative, and hypergamy both are relatively free, but the male imperative is freed to an equal, if not greater… Read more »
The problems I see today is that any 44 y.o divorced mother of two, 1) sees herself with a higher SMV that her real one 2) thinks endless options to find a better partner lie always ahead 3) lives surrounded by a “you can do better” mentality 4) thinks she also deserve her fantasy Mr.Grey instead of her boring husband When they were off the marketplace, for instancxe, they had: 1) less contact with other male candidates to trade up 2) less contact with other hypergamous females telling them how much they are missing out by not being sowing their… Read more »
Off topic: Take a look at this google translate from a Swedish article appeared today in one of the biggest newspaper in the country:
Patriarchy makes men totally useless – http://goo.gl/mJboZ
Talk about fem-centric countries here in Europe!
Only when the hordes from across the ocean are pillaging, and their fem boys don’t really give a shit to defend them, will they realize their folly.
50 Years of Reassessing ‘The Feminine Mystique’
The New York Times
By JENNIFER SCHUESSLER
Published: February 18, 2013
“When the proposal for a book about the plight of the American housewife by a little-known journalist named Betty Friedan began circulating at the publishing house W. W. Norton in early 1959, not everyone was convinced that it was a world-changing blockbuster.”
On a macro scale, fewer marriages, MGTOW and increased low socio economic men will skew the sex ratio and make the remaining men more desireable.
“If a guy swings drastically toward the beta chump side of the bell curve, this may well trigger a new self-perception for a woman and reinvigorate her hypergamous impulse. Likewise social media is contributing to new generations of women who lack a realistic self-image with regard to SMV and thus a false perception of their capacity to optimize their hypergamy. Women’s overinflated sense of SMV and all the contributing factors to it is a manosphere meme now. All of these factors and more upset the balance of the feminine imperative with the masculine and demand new social and psychological adaptations”… Read more »
On Blackdragon’s Blog there was a competition in writing online dating profiles. Ten women had to rate each submission for an average score. What struck me about the winning profiles was this : 1) Or when the volume-knob is turned all the way up, and I am having the time of my life sipping a cocktail on some tropical island wearing a dorky Hawaiian shirt with Lei flowers around my neck. 2) I trade futures intraday and enjoy the instant decision challenges that trading presents. I pride myself in my work, accomplishments, and continue to be success-driven. My work affords… Read more »
In this post, leisure is investigated. http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.ca/2013/02/the-pursuit-of-leisure.html In my mind, FI and this rush to staying a child your whole life are interconnected. Last night out for my son’s 21’st. An old friend of my wife was invited. Like the wife, turning fifty this year. Single mom, still good looking. Went on and on about how she and the wife were gonna go to Vegas and party like they used to. All I could think is “what a waste of life”. These woman no longer want to evolve, they want to stay 21 til they’re put into the ground. So… Read more »
I do not see it as a coincidence that the decline of society coalesces with unrestrained hypergamy. Many women have the wrong perception of an alpha male. Many of them confuse alpha with “bad boy” and thus make terrible choices in partners. It is clear that unrestrained female sexuality as a whole is a huge weight on society. There are less and less incentives now for men to uphold the nuclear family, a cornerstone of modern civilization because there is little, if any benefit from marriage. That girl has already had a thousand and one “Alphas”, why do you think… Read more »
Danger, above, is dead on about how this’ll play out on a societal level. > In our past, society and nature evolved ways to contain hypergamy in ways we’re only peripherally aware of today, but they were serviceable contingencies that kept hypergamy in check. Violence between males made it riskier for alpha men to enable hypergamy by taking on a harem. These days I can’t kill a guy for fucking my wife. > That balance will return eventually, either by men opting out of the traditional measures Still definitely means a societal decline, our intellectual and physical output will slow… Read more »
I don’t know MGTOW and their view on this take, just that from my view. With exception to point out the natural reaction when irritated enough, the mitigating circumstances of The Wall or mate guarding or the rest means little. Such factors may keep a girl from straying, but does not change if the desire exists. Who wants to be that guy whom his girl really wants dances inside her little head? How does the Wall change if there’s actually a feeling of attraction? If one is shut out from interest from years and then find interest by the same… Read more »
Lets also not forget that if you’re the Alpha guy in your wife or gf’s life, then you’re going to be the one reaping the benefits of her monthly desires.
@Marellus: You must not give up! Is your profile posted there? Would you like me to look at it and give you some feedback?
But Kate he’s doesn’t have a Ph.d, I’m not sure he would pass your humble modest standards.
Doesn’t he? Oh, well, then he isn’t fit to shine my shoes! Stop it, you silly ferret. Maybe I don’t pass his standards, eh? He seems like a natural philosopher and artist. But that is all moot. I am simply offering to critique the profile. I’ve done it tons of times before. We could all pitch in.
Online dating is a sucker’s game anyway. It’s all optimized for women for either attention or hypergamy. The only way I see online dating working is if you have a tangible value that can be conveyed through the profile. So you have to be really wealthy or good looking and even then what’s the point? Look at the quality of women online. Most are overweight and unattractive. The ones that are even a little bit good looking use it to try a snag a guy several pay grades above themselves and the true hotties are mainly in it to feel… Read more »
Marellus could totally win some sweet online girl over with his way with words. “Also, most likely every single woman that sees a guy with an online profile wonders what’s wrong with him? As soon as you enter the online arena you already lost the pre-selection game right off the bat.” That’s not true. If a woman herself is online, she can’t be thinking what is wrong with these guys without asking herself the same question. I saw a link to an article recently about the lost art of offline dating. Online is the status quo now. There’s no stigma… Read more »
“I do not see it as a coincidence that the decline of society coalesces with unrestrained hypergamy.” – Sir Alan I agree, but there is an overarching theme which I am trying to define for myself. But the basic idea is that our society has been taught that to discriminate, or have standards is to judge which has become the most negative trait a person can have. This ties neatly with other societal issues. Rollo’s TheNewThin, and TheRaceCard comes to mind. If you look at it from only a sexual/gender issue I think Rollo is correct, but if you pull… Read more »
“That’s not true. If a woman herself is online, she can’t be thinking what is wrong with these guys without asking herself the same question. I saw a link to an article recently about the lost art of offline dating. Online is the status quo now. There’s no stigma to it at all anymore, in my mind. ” I don’t buy that for second. A guy can see the primary value of the woman by her picture, whereas men’s value dimishes simply by showing that he’s in the market without any sort of plausible deniablity. Women at least want to… Read more »
I hate the term “collapse”. Not only is it over-used, but it just doesn’t come to pass.
I prefer the term “crumble”.
If truth be known, my profile was a bit naughty and cocky. I tried to add some humor as well, but while being cocky-funny can work wonders in real life, you’re playing with fire online. It might look like sarcasm. And sarcasm can be a turnoff.
But, nonetheless, I thank you for the kind words.
You’re a real darling.
Aw, thanks, Marellus 🙂
Kate, Not that you were endorsing this viewpoint, but offline dating is definitely not a lost art. I tend to agree with the ferret, online dating is indeed a suckers game, particularly for the paid sites. Their entire structure is to get the guys to pay to see the ladies. There’s no better example for this than whatsyourprice.com, a site where men literally MAKE BIDS to go out with women. There is no equivalent dating site for the women, there is no dating site where women bid on going out with men. Online dating is inherently in catalog form, there… Read more »
I think I understand your position. It seems like a valid way to meet people in my location considering the lack of social opportunities elsewhere.
But, aside from the specific site you mentioned that does bidding, women have to pay to be on these sites too. And they form a catalogue of sorts too for men to thumb through. I know because I check out my competition 😉
Yes, everything online can be faked, but there has to be more than me who is presenting an honest portrayal.
It’s not the same Kate, it’s not the same. Let me see if I can construct an analogy to illustrate this point. If you are in the market for a new tent, you generally do some research. The best way to find this stuff is online at the moment, you can get all sorts of personal reviews, warnings, expectations, etc.. The online world is basically the only sane place to go if you are in the market to select something for yourself that is your average consumer item. Now the good news for the saavy online consumer is now bad… Read more »
@ Lumpy: Violence between males made it riskier for alpha men to enable hypergamy by taking on a harem. These days I can’t kill a guy for fucking my wife. ‘Course you can, easy peasy, same as it ever was. It’s just that the pasha’s harem eunuchs will be all over you with blues&twos, cuffs, and H&K MP5s within the hour. We all live inside the Alphas’ infinite harem now, and are occasionally loaned a slut as a reward for grovelling to His Magnificence (read: model employee with career options), or when she gets too old and saggy and is… Read more »
I wish more of those face to face social situations still existed. I think some women would do better in those scenarios too. I’m harder to resist in person 😉 (But not impossible.)
Whether it is the politics of institutional government or mating, why would a man knowledgeable about Game sincerely reason with a hopeless rationalization hamster? What women (and leftists) do is contradiction to what they say. You guys have some serious inner game work to do. Go talk to women and think to yourself while she is talking: “You’re full of shit, you’re full of shit.” Love is just an instinctual feeling for reproductive advantage of our genes like the orgasm is. Women are stateless, lying machines. In the fluid pack social environment without property rights, without wealth, short-sighted social climbing,… Read more »
For some reason my work computer won’t let me comment anymore, but from home I can and shall. I’m in the “hypergamy will drive us to hell”, but for a slightly different reason. Like somebody said above, what women value in an Alpha isn’t necessarily the type of guy who’s good for the rest of us. It’s Game Game Game. If you’re a brilliant chemist, you can get plenty of poon even if you skip all the work of going to uni and working your ass off to get your grad degree as long as you’ve got Game. Without game,… Read more »
THE WOMEN OF LA with DJ Lubel
Jeremy @ 6:27 – plus one!
Normally, I get the photo at the beginning of the blog pretty much straight away. But today I am at a loss. What is it? Also I found this really great reading tool. It is called Readability. What it does is strip all the non-relevant stuff on a page, and only a story page, not a Home Page, and present the text to you. It has a feature to allow you to change the contrast, meaning black text on white background reverses to white text on black background. It is both easier on the eyes and saves battery. It is… Read more »
Actually never mind about the photo.
Google Images has this search feature and I put the link to Rollo’s photo into the search box and it gave back a link to the photo and a video of that man in the bottom corner of the photo. The title “Man exposes penis at a feminist rally”. It was his way of saying “Screw you” and the S hit the fan. He might have shown his penis but he definitely had some balls.
How did you find this Rollo? I thought I spent too much time on the web.
@Mark, the reach of my manospherean tentacles is boundless.
Bonus points for running down the video of this incident.
If you didn’t watch that Women of LA video, you have to.
Christmas Cookies! No need to get angry about it. I get passed over for younger women with no children all the time. There’s nothing I can do to change that, so there’s no point in dwelling on it or letting it upset me. Men can usually figure out a way to make more money. A child doesn’t go back in the womb. “Starting from the most recent, what were the approximate salaries/the jobs/the homes of men good enough for our in-house female rep or any actual female in practice? What/who does a woman ‘do’ IN PRACTICE? Do flowers get a… Read more »
Also, I recognized the photo because CH did a post about it a while back when it happened. Can’t remember what it was called though. Maybe an alpha of the week post?
Yep Mark, I hadn’t seen that Women of LA, but it’s fucking perfect. Having Lived in LA during all of my adult years, that video is EXACTLY SPOT ON. No men are good enough for the women in this city.
One word in defence of online gaming: pipelining overseas.
Now try to do that face to face. 🙂
And there is moreover the innocently bewildered touristy vibe of being a newcomer in a location. Of course one has to prepare fallback options to counter cases of last-minute flaking…
Software guy Mark M’s program installed — sounds useful, especially the patching of split articles. Just have to restart the browser someday…
Martel, hypergamy indeed doesn’t care about growing up (with many women, not all), why should it? Those tingles first and foremost.
You don’t live in/near Connecticut do you?
Man, LA and NY seem to have it the worst in terms of hypergamy. I’m coming from the midwest, and I feel like you could do a study of the variation by culture and geographic location on how often hypergamy is acted on. For me, it comes down to a simple choice: What do you as a person value: hot sex or family? Obviously for both the man AND the woman who have been married for years, they wish they could have that first love high back again. Do you value creating a vision of life with shared memories or… Read more »
Your critique of online dating is spot on. People talk about “marriage strike” or MGTOW but I wonder if a lot of social SMP market correction can be achieved if men on the whole opted out of online dating. Like: spread the message … learn to dance and stop the online dating guys. Pipd dream probably though.
@Case: No, I do not. Its a bit of a drive. Hear its nice though 🙂
@Case I would qualify that and say, “Learn to social dance.” House/Hip Hop dancing is not good for game and never was unless you were literally a master of it. Besides which, even if you were a master, women go to clubs like this to shake their ass regardless of who is around them. As a man in that situation you’re at best a garnish to their sexual display, at worst someone who they call the bouncer on to throw out of the club(no refunds guys, thanks for your business). OTOH, all you need to know is basic social dancing… Read more »
@Kate, just funny youre story was sounding suspiciously like the other side of that of someone I know.
@Jeremy … u bet. Didn’t give a seconds thought to hip-hop. Its social dance or bust.
It would be a nice reverse mass meta shittest: you want us ladies? We can’t be found online. You have to come and find us and you have to dance. And forget the commodity relationship we can all see you behave but there will be no dossier for your review. Time to be human again.
@Case Actually, we may be seeing that happening now. If good men truly looking for marriage were using online dating en masse, then why are there so many articles decrying the lack of good marriageable men? At this point I’m presuming that the rejection of marriage is already in full swing by men, and that most men whether they’ve consciously acknowledged it or not are actually MGTOW. I’m not the end of this argument though. Even within the manosphere I get debated plenty of times on the value of online dating. I think those men who use it are wrong… Read more »
@Case: You’ve got me curious. Care to share what the other side of the story is? (Btw, my online subscription just ended. Maybe I’ll try it again in the summer. Who knows.)
Online dating is a numbers game. I think it’s a great way to meet women and find what you’re looking for especially if you have alot going on in life. I agree success depends upon looks and status but if you have those all the work gets done for you, all you have to do is chat a bit and arrange the date.
Kate, it was just a certain mental health professional I know who happens to live in a cabin & been doing a lot of dating lately. Wouldve been a small world indeed if we were two degrees of separation. Rest…thing with inline dating is you will always have some fellows do well with it just like some fellows do well with basketball, hockey etc. 6’3″? You’ll do well online, and everywhere else. Got a title that projects your status and income? Ditto. Got good photos & say nothing dumb on your profile, you’ll do fine esp with the numbers game.… Read more »
Well, I do agreee that freedom of choice is not necessarily helpful. There is so much choice that it gets hard to make a decision. That’s where hyperamy fits in: when you are afraid to make the wrong selection. Because what if later you realize you chose the wrong person and now there’s no way to get out of it? Some limits are helpful as it helps to narrow down the pool. And, then, if you still can’t make up your mind, you have to leave it up to the men. Which one wants you the most? What are they… Read more »
Throughout most of the past everybody lived in small-scale societies limited by how much legwork you were willing or able to put in (ok knights rode and vikings rowed, but .. ). This meant that women were relatively static till marriage, a radius probably not much more than the first rainstorm from their parents’ house, and most ordinary men limited to a few parishes due to the demands of work. This was expanded by the railway and the bicycle and so on, and now the large-scale integration of social and cultural reference points is referred to as “globalization”. And women… Read more »
“where are all the good men?” at work
I should add, once one meets someone they really want to be with, the worries about things not working out pretty much disappear. Its almost alarming how one is completely ready to do all kinds of drastic things. Thrice I’ve told me mom, if this man wants me, I’ll do whatever I have to to make it work. But men have these same choices available to them too.
““where are all the good men?” at work” You wish.
“Where are all the fun men?” on blogs 🙂
You mean, let me understand this, ’cause, ya know maybe it’s me, I’m a little fucked up maybe, but I’m funny how? I mean funny like I’m a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh, I’m here to fuckin’ amuse you? What do you mean funny? Funny how? How am I funny?
I wrote “fun.” As in, enjoyable to be around.
[…] Another aspect of limiting hypergamy is the inter-sexual competition women subject each other to in the sexual marketplace. Amongst women, hypergamy is essentially a race to the top. [källa] […]
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