Taming the Beast

beast

Sunshine Mary proposed an interesting question in a comment thread last week:

Knowing what we know about hypergamy – that it’s inborn and does not give a crap – and also what we know about women’s attraction cues swaying toward much more alpha men during ovulation…can men deal with the thought of living with someone who is having to fight against (presuming she’s fighting against it) a general innate desire to trade up and a specific desire to stray with an alpha male during ovulation?

The short answer to this is yes, in fact men have socially and psychologically evolved contingencies to mitigate hypergamy since our hunter-gatherer beginnings. You could even argue that much of our cultural and species-level achievements were the result of men’s latent drives to deal with women’s innate hypergamy.

The common mistake Mary is making here is to presume that hypergamy’s natural state is in a vacuum. Hypergamy is not static. The capacity an individual woman possesses to optimize hypergamy is specific to that woman. There are many complex variables that affect what contributes to a woman’s self-perception of her sexual market valuation.

For a general instance, a hot 22 y.o. coed will generally be more predisposed to her hypergamous impulses because she has the capacity to capitalize on it better than a 44 y.o. divorced mother of two. Too many guys think that hypergamy requires this endless attending to, but with the exception of outlying women, women will should regulate their hypergamy based on their self-perceived capacity to optimize it.

Simply because a woman’s natural state is hypergamy doesn’t mean she is able to optimize it. She may lack opportunity (i.e no Alpha men in the right place or at the right time), she may lack the physical appeal, she may have internalized beliefs that cause her to be more self-conscious, she may have self-esteem issues (over and under inflated), or she may simply be acculturated in a society that enforces limits upon her capacity to optimize hypergamy. All of these limiting conditions contend with her innate hypergamous impulse.

This is the primary struggle women face; managing these limiting factors in the face of a hardwired hypergamy, while facing the constant, inevitable, progression towards the Wall.  Cash in too early and face the nagging doubt she could’ve consolidated with a better man’s commitment. Cash in too late and live with the consequences of settling for the man her looks, personal conditions and societal influences allowed her to consolidate on (Alpha Widows). Remember, all of this occurs within the framework of the varying personal limitations (or benefits) she has a capacity for.

Hypergamy Unbound

One common misunderstanding I think most guys have about hypergamy is that it requires a constant attention. Most MGTOWs follow this logic to some degree, thinking that the effort necessary to contain women’s hypergamy means this endless mindreading and jumping through vaginal hoops in order to maintain some balance and harmony in any relationship with a woman. They think the pay off isn’t worth the effort, and by their individual case they may be correct, but what they don’t account for is the natural balance between the genders that is already existent. Hypergamy is far easier to contain the less a woman is able to capitalize on it.

Imposing limitations on women’s hypergamy is really a matter of application. Why is our reflexive response to label possessive men as ‘insecure’? Because underneath his overt controlling we believe a man lacks the capacity to inspire genuine desire in his woman, thus prompting her to self-regulate her own hypergamy. Yet, we still consider Mate Guarding to be wise in a measured application. So there you have the line in controlling hypergamy – like virtually anything else in Game, apply it overtly and you appear ‘insecure’, apply it covertly and you seem confident and in control.

To really grasp this you have to also take into account the Alpha/Beta response dynamic. Women’s hypergamy will predispose even the woman with the most secure attachement to her mate to shit test him. When men become aware of this their rational minds see it as insecurity and a nuisance that they will constantly have to deal with. However, nature has engineered into our own psyches the means to deal with these tests in ways we’re not really aware of. I’ve experienced even the most beta of men put their foot down after a particularly mean shit test and basically tell their wives or GFs to STFU. It came from exasperation, but that provokation and the response their woman got for it was exactly passing the test. They didn’t realize they were doing it, they were just pissed, lost their temper and later maybe apologized for acting so brash, but this was exactly what their women’s hypergamy needed to confirm that he isn’t a pushover.

Mate guarding is another of these subliminal efforts to contain hypergamy. Most (generally beta) men don’t realize that they are manifesting mate guarding behaviors at exactly the time his woman is ovulating and more aroused by the sperm of the unfamiliar Alpha. Her disposition manifests in behavioral cues that his evolved psyche registers and reflexively triggers his own subconscious mate guarding behaviors – all in a naturalized effort to contain her innate hypergamy. Nature is already aware of hypergamy and has evolved contingencies to limit it.

Another aspect of limiting hypergamy is the inter-sexual competition women subject each other to in the sexual marketplace. Amongst women, hypergamy is essentially a race to the top. The higher value resources (high SMV men) drive down the cost (effort) for the lower value ones. The highest value men cascade down in value by the frequency of lower value men, but hypergamy doesn’t seek its own level, it always defaults to a better optimization. For a woman, the biological jackpot is to secure a commitment of genetics and resources from a mate who registers higher than herself in SMV valuation.

The very nature of hypergamy has a culling effect amongst women. As if the pressures to optimize hypergamy weren’t urgent enough in the light of her personal conditions and the impending Wall, add to this an unforgiving inter-sexual competition that mitigates hypergamy.

Thwarting Nature

If a guy swings drastically toward the beta chump side of the bell curve, this may well trigger a new self-perception for a woman and reinvigorate her hypergamous impulse. Likewise social media is contributing to new generations of women who lack a realistic self-image with regard to SMV and thus a false perception of their capacity to optimize their hypergamy. Women’s overinflated sense of SMV and all the contributing factors to it is a manosphere meme now. All of these factors and more upset the balance of the feminine imperative with the masculine and demand new social and psychological adaptations

Many a manosphere commenter will tell you how unbound women’s hypergamous nature has become since the rise of feminism, fem-centrism and the multi-generational push to feminize every aspect of western culture. While it’s true that hypergamy doesn’t care, and many a man suffers the unprepared consequences of outdated expectations of relational equity, I don’t believe the cultural shift towards the primacy of the feminine imperative is the doom of modern society.

To be sure the sexual revolution and feminine-ubiquitous hormonal birth control has radically shifted primacy to the feminine imperative and its prime directive of hypergamy, but what this means is a readjustment of the masculine imperative is now necessary. With the rise of the internet and the meta Game that is the manosphere I think we’re seeing this adjustment in its beginnings. In our past, society and nature evolved ways to contain hypergamy in ways we’re only peripherally aware of today, but they were serviceable contingencies that kept hypergamy in check. That balance will return eventually, either by men opting out of the traditional measures or women coming to a generational realization of the predicament unbridled hypergamy and the consequences of the falsehoods fem-centrism has brought to their mothers and grandmothers.

68 comments

  1. No matter how frustrating dealing with hypergamy can be and no matter how low a man resides on SMV totem pole, I think every man can take comfort in the fact that at the end of the day he is a man. We can make moves and improve ourself and become more attractive human beings with focus and hard work if we really want it. A physically I attractive women is basically stuck. Not true with us.

  2. While the pendulum will swing the other way in regards to “femcentrism”, this swinging will be a very painful process.

    The inability of women to see themselves as the problem
    ….combined with the liberal ideology of a malevolent patriarchy
    ….combined with the conservative white-knight ideology

    ….will predispose society in the direction of “control”. Much like we see now in all other aspects political (domestic drones, capital controls, weapon control, etc,….) we will continue to see “the machine” chase down men for both money and accountability, regardless of whether they are the party that can provide either.

    To put it bluntly, women won’t come to their senses logically or through feelings, and the powers that be will continue to bend towards the benefit of femcentrism, until eventually there is a confrontation of sorts between men and “the machine”.

  3. > I’ve experienced even the most beta of men put their foot down after a particularly mean shit test and basically tell their wives or GFs to STFU. It came from exasperation, but that provokation and the response their woman got for it was exactly passing the test.

    So true. I was super beta during my (failed) marriage, and the wife at the time loved starting trouble over irrelevant shit. Most of the time I did my best to stay caring and positive, because I knew it came from a place of insecurity on her part, but she would only give it a rest when I lost my temper and damn near yelled at her.

  4. “…I don’t believe the cultural shift towards the primacy of the feminine imperative is the doom of modern society.”

    No, definitely not, but I can see why some manospherians see it that way. Plus, doom of society is not the same as decline, and there’s no denying the anglosphere is in sharp decline. Which leads to the stuff Danger is talking about in his comment above.

    This is probably a good time to point out that in hunter-gatherer cultures, the feminine imperative, and hypergamy both are relatively free, but the male imperative is freed to an equal, if not greater amount.

    The book “Nisa: The Life & Words of a !Kung Woman” describes (in brief, oversimplifiied fashion,) the relentless hypergamy of an HG woman, how she chased an alpha, and later settled for a beta who questions her children’s paternity. The story is a lot more complex than that, but it’s a good read to understand a culture that’s never had a fettered hypergamous instinct.

    There is no doubt that the changes are massive, and on the face of it, it seems that Rollo might be slightly understating both the magnitude of the shift, and the amount of effort toward adaptation needed by men to not just survive, but thrive, in this post-feminist world.

  5. The problems I see today is that any 44 y.o divorced mother of two,

    1) sees herself with a higher SMV that her real one
    2) thinks endless options to find a better partner lie always ahead
    3) lives surrounded by a “you can do better” mentality
    4) thinks she also deserve her fantasy Mr.Grey instead of her boring husband

    When they were off the marketplace, for instancxe, they had:

    1) less contact with other male candidates to trade up
    2) less contact with other hypergamous females telling them how much they are missing out by not being sowing their oats
    3) less time to engage into banalities and think on how “bored and unhaaaaaappy they are”
    4) less money and independence to risk taking the divorce route

    Their hypergamous nature was tamed by that, stronger male characters and religion. Today those 3 things play a weaker role (if any at all)

  6. Only when the hordes from across the ocean are pillaging, and their fem boys don’t really give a shit to defend them, will they realize their folly.

  7. 50 Years of Reassessing ‘The Feminine Mystique’

    The New York Times
    By JENNIFER SCHUESSLER
    Published: February 18, 2013

    “When the proposal for a book about the plight of the American housewife by a little-known journalist named Betty Friedan began circulating at the publishing house W. W. Norton in early 1959, not everyone was convinced that it was a world-changing blockbuster.”

    http://nyti.ms/W09IDA

  8. On a macro scale, fewer marriages, MGTOW and increased low socio economic men will skew the sex ratio and make the remaining men more desireable.

  9. “If a guy swings drastically toward the beta chump side of the bell curve, this may well trigger a new self-perception for a woman and reinvigorate her hypergamous impulse. Likewise social media is contributing to new generations of women who lack a realistic self-image with regard to SMV and thus a false perception of their capacity to optimize their hypergamy. Women’s overinflated sense of SMV and all the contributing factors to it is a manosphere meme now. All of these factors and more upset the balance of the feminine imperative with the masculine and demand new social and psychological adaptations”

    … all the essential bow-tie of the whole article (and missing a period at the end Rollo).

    Fact is, in many cases in 2013 USA, the value proposition simply may not be there. There simply may not be sufficient value available to the man to be worth even the most basic hypergamy-checking countermeasures. Life is good. Coupling improves it precisely … how?

    And not even to say that it’s impossible. A good coupling really would be an improvement. But a good coupling nowadays is hard hard hard to come by. Factor in price and maybe it’s just time to leave the city.

  10. On Blackdragon’s Blog there was a competition in writing online dating profiles. Ten women had to rate each submission for an average score.

    What struck me about the winning profiles was this :

    1)

    Or when the volume-knob is turned all the way up, and I am having the time of my life sipping a cocktail on some tropical island wearing a dorky Hawaiian shirt with Lei flowers around my neck.

    2)

    I trade futures intraday and enjoy the instant decision challenges that trading presents. I pride myself in my work, accomplishments, and continue to be success-driven. My work affords me the free time to pursue other passions in my life and to set my own hours.

    3)

    I AM an accountant, which means I’m sensible, but I’m by no means a boring geek. In fact, once I leave the office, I don’t take myself too seriously. On a typical Friday night, I’m not calculating debits and credits, I’m actually partying like a rock star—literally—I’m the lead singer in my rock band.

    All these winning profiles seems to have one thing in common :

    We have money.

    But it’s either talked down, poo-poo’d, or made fun of. And that is necessary. For while hypergamy doesn’t care, hypergamy must never be acknowledged.

    I give up.

  11. In this post, leisure is investigated.

    http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.ca/2013/02/the-pursuit-of-leisure.html

    In my mind, FI and this rush to staying a child your whole life are interconnected. Last night out for my son’s 21’st. An old friend of my wife was invited. Like the wife, turning fifty this year. Single mom, still good looking. Went on and on about how she and the wife were gonna go to Vegas and party like they used to. All I could think is “what a waste of life”.

    These woman no longer want to evolve, they want to stay 21 til they’re put into the ground. So Fucking Sad!

  12. I do not see it as a coincidence that the decline of society coalesces with unrestrained hypergamy. Many women have the wrong perception of an alpha male. Many of them confuse alpha with “bad boy” and thus make terrible choices in partners. It is clear that unrestrained female sexuality as a whole is a huge weight on society. There are less and less incentives now for men to uphold the nuclear family, a cornerstone of modern civilization because there is little, if any benefit from marriage. That girl has already had a thousand and one “Alphas”, why do you think she’d want to be with you?

    I always laugh when women say men think with their genitals. Women do too but they think that since they’re the “fairer sex”, that they aren’t sex driven.

  13. Danger, above, is dead on about how this’ll play out on a societal level.

    > In our past, society and nature evolved ways to contain hypergamy in ways we’re only peripherally aware of today, but they were serviceable contingencies that kept hypergamy in check.

    Violence between males made it riskier for alpha men to enable hypergamy by taking on a harem. These days I can’t kill a guy for fucking my wife.

    > That balance will return eventually, either by men opting out of the traditional measures

    Still definitely means a societal decline, our intellectual and physical output will slow versus a society that has fully harnessed betas.

    > or women coming to a generational realization of the predicament unbridled hypergamy and the consequences of the falsehoods fem-centrism has brought to their mothers and grandmothers.

    lol

  14. I don’t know MGTOW and their view on this take, just that from my view. With exception to point out the natural reaction when irritated enough, the mitigating circumstances of The Wall or mate guarding or the rest means little. Such factors may keep a girl from straying, but does not change if the desire exists. Who wants to be that guy whom his girl really wants dances inside her little head? How does the Wall change if there’s actually a feeling of attraction?

    If one is shut out from interest from years and then find interest by the same girls in the late 20’s and 30’s. What’s change? Which is more likely? That taste have evolved to now find that one attractive? Or new circumstances forcing to go for someone not desired while pines for the real person? For a thought experiment, if she is given a chance to be young again and thus a choice to now enjoy more time being with the man chosen or return to hunting, this shows her true desires. Most or way too many fall into the latter.

    And thus, barring proof to the contrary, no way such “affection” can be accepted. Only from the young can one trust that it is motivated by such genuine attraction.

    The real peace of mind is to be the alpha. The one that if still having youth, is willing to spend all of that and beyond. If somehow regiven youth, it only means to have more time to spend.

    A second possible corollary and hope is Alpha is dependent sometimes on the girl. Because almost virtually every pretty and young girl should be going after the standard Alpha. But I can think of enough examples of couples where the girl is pretty enough to go search for whatever “insert” hypergamy example picks a pretty normal to nerdy guy while still having youth and prettiness. Exceptions to the rule, perhaps. But enough to show Alpha and thus attractive doesn’t necessarily mean every girl has a threshold exactly the same and be that high. Just past the threshold.

  15. Lets also not forget that if you’re the Alpha guy in your wife or gf’s life, then you’re going to be the one reaping the benefits of her monthly desires.

  16. @Marellus: You must not give up! Is your profile posted there? Would you like me to look at it and give you some feedback?

  17. Doesn’t he? Oh, well, then he isn’t fit to shine my shoes! Stop it, you silly ferret. Maybe I don’t pass his standards, eh? He seems like a natural philosopher and artist. But that is all moot. I am simply offering to critique the profile. I’ve done it tons of times before. We could all pitch in.

  18. Online dating is a sucker’s game anyway. It’s all optimized for women for either attention or hypergamy. The only way I see online dating working is if you have a tangible value that can be conveyed through the profile. So you have to be really wealthy or good looking and even then what’s the point?

    Look at the quality of women online. Most are overweight and unattractive. The ones that are even a little bit good looking use it to try a snag a guy several pay grades above themselves and the true hotties are mainly in it to feel like a celebrity. Then you have the dishonest pictures. Probably even more flaking due to it being even easier. Online just seems like the world’s biggest scam at least in terms of men’s interests. Also, most likely every single woman that sees a guy with an online profile wonders what’s wrong with him? As soon as you enter the online arena you already lost the pre-selection game right off the bat.

    Kate is a good example of online dating. She wants a very niche type of guy, a smart Ph.d intellectual. So she puts up a profile and then just kind of sits there while messages pour in. She really is only looking for that one needle in the hay stack but she’ll take the attention that the other saps give. Match.com is a hideous beast that needs not be feed.

    That being said, some guys have probably figured out how to game that system but I just see not being good for most men.

  19. Marellus could totally win some sweet online girl over with his way with words.

    “Also, most likely every single woman that sees a guy with an online profile wonders what’s wrong with him? As soon as you enter the online arena you already lost the pre-selection game right off the bat.”

    That’s not true. If a woman herself is online, she can’t be thinking what is wrong with these guys without asking herself the same question. I saw a link to an article recently about the lost art of offline dating. Online is the status quo now. There’s no stigma to it at all anymore, in my mind.

    “Kate is a good example of online dating. She wants a very niche type of guy, a smart Ph.d intellectual. So she puts up a profile and then just kind of sits there while messages pour in. She really is only looking for that one needle in the hay stack but she’ll take the attention that the other saps give.”

    Well, that’s not true either, but I realize you’re just needling me to get your jollies. As you’ve mentioned, some men learn how to use online game to their advantage and so have I. There is some effort and skill that goes into it. There’s your username, your headline, your profile, how you fill out your information, the pictures, etc. Then there’s responding to emails in such a way that leads to phone calls, dates, not to mention being a pleasant conversationalist and good date. There’s the psychology of knowing what is appealing to the opposite sex, showing your best, etc. Replying to everyone who contacts you can be like a second job. Its sometimes necessary to go invisible or even deactivate for a while.

    If its not up your alley, fine. But one shouldn’t become a defeatist about it.

  20. “I do not see it as a coincidence that the decline of society coalesces with unrestrained hypergamy.” – Sir Alan

    I agree, but there is an overarching theme which I am trying to define for myself. But the basic idea is that our society has been taught that to discriminate, or have standards is to judge which has become the most negative trait a person can have.

    This ties neatly with other societal issues. Rollo’s TheNewThin, and TheRaceCard comes to mind. If you look at it from only a sexual/gender issue I think Rollo is correct, but if you pull out of the matrix a little farther one can see this “theme” across multiple domains of the societies ills. This is what I am trying to define.

    Its not that the FI will doom society, but the driving factor putting FI into the primary position will “doom” society. Don’t get me wrong society will still exist, but not in the form or the previous 100yrs.

  21. “That’s not true. If a woman herself is online, she can’t be thinking what is wrong with these guys without asking herself the same question. I saw a link to an article recently about the lost art of offline dating. Online is the status quo now. There’s no stigma to it at all anymore, in my mind. ”

    I don’t buy that for second. A guy can see the primary value of the woman by her picture, whereas men’s value dimishes simply by showing that he’s in the market without any sort of plausible deniablity. Women at least want to pretend that the man she is interested in is wanted by a bunch of other women.

    A guy approaching in real life can sell her the fantasy of ‘it just happened’. You simply can’t do that online or not as easily. One way I can see to get around this would to put out I’m tired of simply banging women with no substance and wants to find someone better than the bars and clubs. Of couse, to the women that see this, she is that special snowflake. LOL. Or maybe you can go the total opposite and ramp up the player vibe to the max. Just one more revenue stream type of thing. But to play it straight in online dating. Hell no.

    “Replying to everyone who contacts you can be like a second job. ”

    Of course it would because you get bombared by chumps. Why should a guy demean himself by playing against a system totally designed for women with almost no consideration by men.

    The only way I can see online dating to be decent is that you go into it with ‘game the system’ mentality. It’s all one big game and I’m going to work it hard and dig out the gold.

    I’ve never even tried to do the online thing, so maybe I’m missing something.

  22. I hate the term “collapse”. Not only is it over-used, but it just doesn’t come to pass.

    I prefer the term “crumble”.

  23. Kate,

    If truth be known, my profile was a bit naughty and cocky. I tried to add some humor as well, but while being cocky-funny can work wonders in real life, you’re playing with fire online. It might look like sarcasm. And sarcasm can be a turnoff.

    But, nonetheless, I thank you for the kind words.

    You’re a real darling.

  24. Kate, Not that you were endorsing this viewpoint, but offline dating is definitely not a lost art. I tend to agree with the ferret, online dating is indeed a suckers game, particularly for the paid sites. Their entire structure is to get the guys to pay to see the ladies. There’s no better example for this than whatsyourprice.com, a site where men literally MAKE BIDS to go out with women. There is no equivalent dating site for the women, there is no dating site where women bid on going out with men.

    Online dating is inherently in catalog form, there is no way around this. Women being the choosers in the traditional SM, online dating is ideal for the selector side of the market. It’s a ready-made catalog of men where the men are forced to advertise their success in an almost curriculum vitae form to get attention.

    Physical appearance in real life is 90% of the initial value women bring to the table in an initial dating scenario. When you realize that everything online can be faked… This means that the flipside for men is essentially a catalog full of fools gold. Men can be shallow, but the true harm to the dating world doesn’t come from the fake inflation of female physical characteristics, but the masking of the natural form that men are always looking for.

    Online dating is a ridiculous game for men to play. If you seek out proper social circles and approach women physically while avoiding online-dating, you come off as far far more alpha. I’ve done this, anyone can. It’s easy, go find a new hobby, and make friends.

  25. Jeremy,
    I think I understand your position. It seems like a valid way to meet people in my location considering the lack of social opportunities elsewhere.

    But, aside from the specific site you mentioned that does bidding, women have to pay to be on these sites too. And they form a catalogue of sorts too for men to thumb through. I know because I check out my competition 😉

    Yes, everything online can be faked, but there has to be more than me who is presenting an honest portrayal.

  26. It’s not the same Kate, it’s not the same. Let me see if I can construct an analogy to illustrate this point.

    If you are in the market for a new tent, you generally do some research. The best way to find this stuff is online at the moment, you can get all sorts of personal reviews, warnings, expectations, etc.. The online world is basically the only sane place to go if you are in the market to select something for yourself that is your average consumer item. Now the good news for the saavy online consumer is now bad products can’t hide themselves. Those products that everyone used to buy and just “deal with”, the non-perfect products that might need some duct-tape once in a while, they don’t get purchased anymore. In fact in the past 15 years there’s been a steady rise in the expectations of online customers, since negative reviews are so harmful to sales. This is natural. No one wants a shitty product, so why settle for the 3-star item when for $50 more (or sometimes less) you can snag the highest rated one on the market? You’d have to be stupid not to shop around until you find perfection, right?

    Now, the flipside of a marketplace is a seller, not a buyer. So lets say you are in the tent making market. How do you sell yourself to make sure that someone buys you? Remember, one false step, one bad review, one bad picture and your effort is doomed from the start.

    You see the inequity here? No woman online is ever even socially pressured to speak to any man who finds them attractive from their profile. There’s absolutely NO risk for the ladies, and NO responsibilities. There is nothing to force the online woman to pick from what is available. Rather, they get to compare their unrealistic standards to the profiles of men available to them, and likely raise them. Worse still, between the two sexes, it’s the ladies who are FAR more prone to creating lengthy lists of requirements of any man they intend on dating. Are you a short man? You’re doomed. Are you still getting an undergrad at 35? Forget it. Are you from the inner city? Take a hike. This sort of behavior likely created an inflation of standards among the women that is now at unrealistic levels.

    Long before online dating, women settled. I’m not going to go so far as to say they were happier for it, but they were certainly less lonely in their old age. With online dating, women simply raise their standards to be above average of what they see in the catalog, and this steady rise of female standards continues to go up. They’ve even done studies on online dating sites demonstrating how absolutely unrealistic the ladies expectations were.

    Contrast this with a face-to-face social situation. If I come up to you and say hi and introduce myself, you look like a complete snob for not responding (and rightfully so). If a man asks you out on a date and you say no, you made your choice but you do at least have to live with seeing the rejected man after your rejection. It’s even likely that you’ll see him get accepted by someone else later on, this naturally creates curious regret and makes women realize the consequences of meaningless rejection. More importantly, if in a face-to-face social circle, if people know we are dating, and then not dating, word actually gets around. In this situation It becomes obvious to men which ladies are picky. Believe me men avoid picky/high-maintenance ladies. This creates a better way to average the standards men and women have of each other in the SMP. Yes, there are alphas that get all the attention in a face-to-face social scene, but there’s also a NATURAL pressure to recognize value in the rest of the men there.

    A man with an online dating profile is just another packaged consumer item.

  27. @ Lumpy: Violence between males made it riskier for alpha men to enable hypergamy by taking on a harem. These days I can’t kill a guy for fucking my wife.

    ‘Course you can, easy peasy, same as it ever was.
    It’s just that the pasha’s harem eunuchs will be all over you with blues&twos, cuffs, and H&K MP5s within the hour.

    We all live inside the Alphas’ infinite harem now, and are occasionally loaned a slut as a reward for grovelling to His Magnificence (read: model employee with career options), or when she gets too old and saggy and is given the heave-ho off the Carousel.

    Logically, impersonating an Alpha is the only way you’re going to have it away, without paying through the nose, and being enslaved.
    Right, where’s me turban got to?

  28. I wish more of those face to face social situations still existed. I think some women would do better in those scenarios too. I’m harder to resist in person 😉 (But not impossible.)

  29. Whether it is the politics of institutional government or mating, why would a man knowledgeable about Game sincerely reason with a hopeless rationalization hamster? What women (and leftists) do is contradiction to what they say. You guys have some serious inner game work to do. Go talk to women and think to yourself while she is talking: “You’re full of shit, you’re full of shit.”

    Love is just an instinctual feeling for reproductive advantage of our genes like the orgasm is. Women are stateless, lying machines. In the fluid pack social environment without property rights, without wealth, short-sighted social climbing, no holds barred, works great. What makes jerks and a-holes special is that they don’t give a shit what the woman says, certainly not in a literal sense.

    I don’t want to hear, “He will make a great bf/husband for some lucky lady,” or anything of the like. Seriously guys. Sexual favors and relationship interest will correspond to income, etc, etc. (the catalogue wish list) with the online game even more than offline, I would expect. Don’t be an ATM financially or emotionally competing for divorce sweepstakes underwriting. Love is blind alright.

    Starting from the most recent, what were the approximate salaries/the jobs/the homes of men good enough for our in-house female rep or any actual female in practice? What/who does a woman ‘do’ IN PRACTICE? Do flowers get a woman excited sexually? or financially? Or does confidence and authority get the sexual tingles? If I want to hear a woman’s opinion on dating or relationships, it should be delivered as sloppy mumbling coming from the vicinity of my crotch. It’s excellent elocution training, so I’ve heard.

    Alpha fucks and beta bucks! lululzulz Stop being sucker betas! You are heretics! Go watch CNN! Or repent and read and internalize:

    https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/the-beta-hamster/

  30. For some reason my work computer won’t let me comment anymore, but from home I can and shall.

    I’m in the “hypergamy will drive us to hell”, but for a slightly different reason. Like somebody said above, what women value in an Alpha isn’t necessarily the type of guy who’s good for the rest of us. It’s Game Game Game.

    If you’re a brilliant chemist, you can get plenty of poon even if you skip all the work of going to uni and working your ass off to get your grad degree as long as you’ve got Game. Without game, you might have the fancy degree, but you’ll loose out to the charmer who delivers pizza but has mastered cocky-funny.

    Women these days are bitching about how guys refuse to grow up, but they still have sex with them (I remember the girl who banged the boucer from the NYT article that Roissy quoted a couple of weeks back). Yet guys who do grow up but have no Game are invisible. We’re not growing up because we don’t see a point in it anymore.

    Boring decent beta traits like reliability count for ZILCH, and if anything, they can hurt your SMV if you don’t know how to present them right. However, these are the traits that gave us damn near everything we have. Queen Hamster dictates what guys win, and she’s a downright awful judge.

    Our best hope if for some sort of system shock that hurts like hell but doesn’t quite bring it all crashing down, giving us the chance to see what we’re doing in time to correct it. I’m not too confident, though. Our inner cities are a taste of what the rest of us have got coming, but if you point out that the Urban Matriarchy isn’t working out so well, you’re either racist or hate single moms.

  31. Normally, I get the photo at the beginning of the blog pretty much straight away. But today I am at a loss.

    What is it?

    Also I found this really great reading tool. It is called Readability. What it does is strip all the non-relevant stuff on a page, and only a story page, not a Home Page, and present the text to you.

    It has a feature to allow you to change the contrast, meaning black text on white background reverses to white text on black background. It is both easier on the eyes and saves battery.

    It is really a neat tool, especially if your computer is slower or your connection is slower. It is a Firefox add on. It creates an icon, a book, up next to the navigation toolbar (the webpage address) So you click the link to enter the page you wish to read, then as it is loading, click on the Readability book icon, and it converts it. No flash, no video, no ads, only the main body text. The best thing is that is takes multi-page articles and converts them into a single page.

    You can mark a page to Read Later and also you download a PDF of the generated page for reading offline. And it keeps archives of anything you convert on your personal page that they create for you at the Readability web page. If you comment a lot and wish to look up something you read, this could be a lot easier than searching through browser history.

    I am not spamming the link to it. Just search Google for “Readabilty Add on” and Google will give you the link. I highly recommend it for people that do a lot of web reading. There is an iPad, iPhone app for Safari, one for android, one for Chrome and one for Firefox. You can have to register but you can use a Facebook ID for this and it asks nothing else. The registration gives that personal page that keeps track of your reading.

  32. Actually never mind about the photo.

    Google Images has this search feature and I put the link to Rollo’s photo into the search box and it gave back a link to the photo and a video of that man in the bottom corner of the photo. The title “Man exposes penis at a feminist rally”. It was his way of saying “Screw you” and the S hit the fan. He might have shown his penis but he definitely had some balls.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2161560

    How did you find this Rollo? I thought I spent too much time on the web.

  33. Christmas Cookies! No need to get angry about it. I get passed over for younger women with no children all the time. There’s nothing I can do to change that, so there’s no point in dwelling on it or letting it upset me. Men can usually figure out a way to make more money. A child doesn’t go back in the womb.

    “Starting from the most recent, what were the approximate salaries/the jobs/the homes of men good enough for our in-house female rep or any actual female in practice? What/who does a woman ‘do’ IN PRACTICE? Do flowers get a woman excited sexually? or financially? Or does confidence and authority get the sexual tingles?”

    Well, in the pool of six that I dated in the last two months, one lived with his parents, several owned their own home, and one lives in a cabin in the woods with real estate elsewhere (my favorite- who doesn’t love a guy living off the grid in the forest? :)) Jobs ranged from psychologist working with PTS vets to musician to landlord to biology professor to unemployed educator. I don’t really remember what the salaries were. Some guys don’t list that. I do like to see 50K there. Its nice to see if its more, but I don’t screen by income. No, flowers don’t work in isolation. Who ever said they did? Certainly not me. Confidence and authority always works. The *only* one to kiss me out of this lot was…can you guess? Cabin in the woods man!

    As M3 wrote a while back, highly educated people can be really stiff or socially awkward. I don’t usually find that though. Sometimes the guy has the accolades but is too feminine. That happens. As far as education for this last round, all but one had a college degree. One is halfway done with his master’s, two had graduate degrees, one is finishing his doctorate and the other finished his residency a few years ago. The ones I had the least to talk about were at either end. Otherwise, pretty good conversationalists.

  34. Also, I recognized the photo because CH did a post about it a while back when it happened. Can’t remember what it was called though. Maybe an alpha of the week post?

  35. Yep Mark, I hadn’t seen that Women of LA, but it’s fucking perfect. Having Lived in LA during all of my adult years, that video is EXACTLY SPOT ON. No men are good enough for the women in this city.

  36. One word in defence of online gaming: pipelining overseas.
    Now try to do that face to face. 🙂
    And there is moreover the innocently bewildered touristy vibe of being a newcomer in a location. Of course one has to prepare fallback options to counter cases of last-minute flaking…

    Software guy Mark M’s program installed — sounds useful, especially the patching of split articles. Just have to restart the browser someday…

    Martel, hypergamy indeed doesn’t care about growing up (with many women, not all), why should it? Those tingles first and foremost.

  37. Man, LA and NY seem to have it the worst in terms of hypergamy. I’m coming from the midwest, and I feel like you could do a study of the variation by culture and geographic location on how often hypergamy is acted on.

    For me, it comes down to a simple choice: What do you as a person value: hot sex or family? Obviously for both the man AND the woman who have been married for years, they wish they could have that first love high back again. Do you value creating a vision of life with shared memories or a life of hot sexual encounters?

    For me the key is finding the balance.

  38. @Jeremy ,
    Your critique of online dating is spot on. People talk about “marriage strike” or MGTOW but I wonder if a lot of social SMP market correction can be achieved if men on the whole opted out of online dating. Like: spread the message … learn to dance and stop the online dating guys. Pipd dream probably though.

  39. @Case

    I would qualify that and say, “Learn to social dance.” House/Hip Hop dancing is not good for game and never was unless you were literally a master of it. Besides which, even if you were a master, women go to clubs like this to shake their ass regardless of who is around them. As a man in that situation you’re at best a garnish to their sexual display, at worst someone who they call the bouncer on to throw out of the club(no refunds guys, thanks for your business). OTOH, all you need to know is basic social dancing and you get to directly interact with women.

  40. @Kate, just funny youre story was sounding suspiciously like the other side of that of someone I know.

    @Jeremy … u bet. Didn’t give a seconds thought to hip-hop. Its social dance or bust.

    It would be a nice reverse mass meta shittest: you want us ladies? We can’t be found online. You have to come and find us and you have to dance. And forget the commodity relationship we can all see you behave but there will be no dossier for your review. Time to be human again.

  41. @Case

    Actually, we may be seeing that happening now. If good men truly looking for marriage were using online dating en masse, then why are there so many articles decrying the lack of good marriageable men? At this point I’m presuming that the rejection of marriage is already in full swing by men, and that most men whether they’ve consciously acknowledged it or not are actually MGTOW.

    I’m not the end of this argument though. Even within the manosphere I get debated plenty of times on the value of online dating. I think those men who use it are wrong to think they’re gaining anything from it. I do concede it allows for long-distance dating, but who wants that unless you live in the arctic? If you live in any reasonably sized town, there’s women available that won’t try to destroy you outright, that’s reality, so I fail to see what online dating gives me.

    It’s so simple, the formula never changed. You go out, you make friends, and you try to spend time getting closer to any females you meet who seem to like you. It’s worked for thousands of years…. but somehow everyone was convinced that because online dating exists, they must use it. It’s just like facebook… because it exists, it must be used. The argument holds no weight and is actually little more than a lure on a fish-hook for the greatest invasion of privacy the world has ever seen.

  42. @Case: You’ve got me curious. Care to share what the other side of the story is? (Btw, my online subscription just ended. Maybe I’ll try it again in the summer. Who knows.)

  43. Online dating is a numbers game. I think it’s a great way to meet women and find what you’re looking for especially if you have alot going on in life. I agree success depends upon looks and status but if you have those all the work gets done for you, all you have to do is chat a bit and arrange the date.

  44. Kate, it was just a certain mental health professional I know who happens to live in a cabin & been doing a lot of dating lately. Wouldve been a small world indeed if we were two degrees of separation.

    Rest…thing with inline dating is you will always have some fellows do well with it just like some fellows do well with basketball, hockey etc. 6’3″? You’ll do well online, and everywhere else. Got a title that projects your status and income? Ditto. Got good photos & say nothing dumb on your profile, you’ll do fine esp with the numbers game.

    Meanwhile my guess is 85% of men fare badly or worse. Key issue though is that while a healthy culture would be putting up stops to hinder the natural forces that work to commodify men online dating sets all men in a superhighway to human commodification hell whether they participate in it or not.

    Numbers game indeed.

  45. Well, I do agreee that freedom of choice is not necessarily helpful. There is so much choice that it gets hard to make a decision. That’s where hyperamy fits in: when you are afraid to make the wrong selection. Because what if later you realize you chose the wrong person and now there’s no way to get out of it?

    Some limits are helpful as it helps to narrow down the pool. And, then, if you still can’t make up your mind, you have to leave it up to the men. Which one wants you the most? What are they willing to do to be with you? If you think about it, this is how courtship used to work. Instead of women out there picking men, they were “chosen” and either accepted a proposal or did not. They really had very little choice in the matter other than presenting themselves as best they could.

    If someone showed me four men and said definitively: “These are the four best possible men you could be with for your SMV” then I could make a decision. Not knowing what might be possible in a few months or a few years makes it next to impossible to negate these doubts that there might be someone else who makes a better match just out of my current line of sight.

  46. Throughout most of the past everybody lived in small-scale societies limited by how much legwork you were willing or able to put in (ok knights rode and vikings rowed, but .. ). This meant that women were relatively static till marriage, a radius probably not much more than the first rainstorm from their parents’ house, and most ordinary men limited to a few parishes due to the demands of work.
    This was expanded by the railway and the bicycle and so on, and now the large-scale integration of social and cultural reference points is referred to as “globalization”.

    And women are now in a situation where the absolutist hypergamic fixation on the topmost apex Alphas is severely constraining their options.
    Even a hundred years ago the local (cashed-up, and definitely ripped and buff by today’s standards) ploughman-laddie, wright, smith or solvent farmer was a glamorous prize.
    Since that time women with the physical capital (“options”) have been hopping the boxcars to the city, in search of a better mousetrap. And the images of men of extreme value are blasted constantly at them via print and audiovisuals as a template and herd-cynosure.

    Of course, these men are very few in number, are literally spoiled for choice, and anyway couldn’t work their way down to the hopeful-yet-unaccountably-unrecognized Princesses even if they had several lifetimes, and five dicks apiece.
    Any man ranking below “prince”, “oligarch”, “master of the universe”, “Adonis”, “Bluebeard” or even “lord of all creation” is just going to provoke the dry heaves in a woman exercising a feelings-driven “choice”.

    Hence “where are all the good men?” (and the actual answer, “shooting pool and drinking beer in the garage, in wife-beaters and check shirts” provokes incoherent fury at the attempt to ‘devalue’ and ‘humiliate’ the speciallest snowflakes ever spawned, and you’d better believe bub).

    Leave it be, ignore the caterwauling, and avoid this junkyard of remaindered items like it was Chernobyl, Time will fix it. Lots of Time.

  47. “where are all the good men?” at work

    I should add, once one meets someone they really want to be with, the worries about things not working out pretty much disappear. Its almost alarming how one is completely ready to do all kinds of drastic things. Thrice I’ve told me mom, if this man wants me, I’ll do whatever I have to to make it work. But men have these same choices available to them too.

  48. You mean, let me understand this, ’cause, ya know maybe it’s me, I’m a little fucked up maybe, but I’m funny how? I mean funny like I’m a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh, I’m here to fuckin’ amuse you? What do you mean funny? Funny how? How am I funny?

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s