Women Studies

Last week Heartiste had some excellent play-by-play Game analysis of this video. The guy doing the approach in the video is Steve, who is a friend of Krausers, and before I go into today’s post I just wanted to take a moment to say that Steve’s confidence and Game savvy is impressive. Whether he’s consciously aware of how well he’s internalized Game or if it’s a practiced effort, just like Krauser he gets a lot of points in the Tomassi book for application.

I’m not going to speculate as to whether Steve tapped into some natural reserve of Alpha mojo, or if he’s got his Game down to the point that it’s been internalized into his personality, or that his choice of woman in this instance was more advantageous to his personality type. Nor will I speculate that it may have been his Look and physique that led to a 5 minute kiss-close. I don’t have to because all of this was predictably scrawled across Roissy’s post comments. I say ‘predictably’ because when we observe a process we do so in terms of how it fits our own internal narratives.

As would be expected, the accusations of fraud and the disqualifications of how hot Steve’s target was started the hit parade, but amongst the “it was a set up” and “how much did it cost her to go along with it?” were some very interesting (though equally predictable) responses from The Chateau’s host of regular female commenters. The responses ran the gamut between “that’s so disrespectful”, “He’s so desperate. He comes across as a stalker and a lunatic” and “wow, did I just watch video documentation of sexual harassment?” to “that would never work on me! I have self-respect” to “yeah he’s kind of cute and has good Game.”

Geisha Kate summed it up best:

Its a simple matter of perception. An onlooker cannot feel what the people in the video felt. To them it was an awesome experience. The onlooker can’t tap into that and so it appears silly, etc. (no offense). Girls can look at this video and say, “that wouldn’t work on me,” but it likely would, and guys can look at the video and say it was because of his looks, which may be part of it, but its not the whole picture.

Kate’s was far and away the most objective of the female input; the rest of which were mostly an effort in plausible deniability of women’s universal attraction/arousal cues (NAWALT and “we’re attracted to different things”) to their, now expected, self-important anecdotal experiences absolving women of the obviously effective results Game had on one of their sisters.

Women Studies

The rest of what followed was essentially a debate between women (and less Game savvy men) coming to terms with Steve’s close and the red pill community’s dissection of the social and psychological dynamics observed in the video. The feminine side qualifies, disqualifies and personalizes the reasons why Game works, while the red pill side builds workable theories upon concrete analysis. All of this comes as the result of observing a process.

Steve’s approach video has everything the community and women alike could ask for. In it’s shot-on-video, raw genuineness it appeals to feminine indignation, the likes of which even Cheaters or Tyra Banks pale next to. Yet at the same time it is titillating enough to women’s arousal process that they’re drawn into casting themselves in the role of Steve’s Columbian target (not unlike the Twilight Dynamic). For blue-pills and white knights, it’s easily dismissed as some girl who “has no respect for herself” and they’ll continue their quest for the Holy Grail (a Quality Woman®) with a twinge of self-doubt that all women are in fact ‘like this’ and Steve’s approach might actually have merit. And that of course leaves the red-pill community with a lot of red meat to consume in verifying proposed dynamics and how well this girl’s response aligned with what’s already been established in our own version of ‘women studies’.

The manosphere is prescient if it’s anything, and as if on cue Vox fired off a very relevant post in light of the video debate at the Chateau – The logical fallacy of female attraction. As per usual, Aunt Giggles is still soft-selling the ‘betas-are-the-sexiest-of-men’ trope that only women in their 50’s can afford to invest themselves in. I say this is relevant to the debate over Steve’s video because the women (and manginas) commenting about it are uniformly conflicted amongst themselves in defining what characteristics, qualities, physique, attitude, behaviors, etc. empirically constitute attraction/arousal cues for women.

As I detailed in the Feminine Mystique, from a social perspective, the feminine imperative can’t afford men understanding the methods behind the madness with regards to optimizing hypergamy. A persistent sense of feminine ambiguity and female unknowability must constantly be reinforced for men by women. Thus women (and less enlightened men) perpetuate the myth that “women just don’t know what they want”, but is that the truth of it? Are women really unaware of their own attraction triggers? Or is it that they are so preoccupied with optimizing hypergamy (in a short window of SMV peak) that they’re simply never bothered by an inquisitive thought about what factors contribute to their being turned on enough to fuck one guy, but conversely being attracted to another for a long term commitment? Are women ever really prompted to observe their own process?

Observing a process will change it.

From the end of Vox’s Logical Fallacy post:

“Showing no emotion and saying absolutely nothing is an excellent way to avoid interrupting the process.”

Vox mentions that more sociopathic men, being entirely self-concerned and outcome indifferent, are primarily the types of men women feel the most arousal for and attraction to. In other words, the sociopath, in his self-importance, can’t be bothered to observe the process of attraction in women.

That said, I can’t help but find a similar parallel in women’s cognitive ignorance of their own attraction cues. Women’s innate solipsism (further reinforced by fem-centrism), like the self-importance of the sociopathic man, predisposes her to be oblivious to her own pluralistic sexual strategy (Alpha vs. Beta attraction). A woman’s solipsistic nature suggests she can’t be bothered to observe her own process.

In fact I would argue that evolution and hypergamy has selected-for women who are more predisposed to being oblivious to their own attraction cues, thus allowing them more cognitive brain-space to be devoted to filtering for the best mating option and the best long term provisioning option among prospective males.

By its very nature, women’s strategic sexual pluralism – Alpha Cads and Beta Dads – creates an unresolvable internal psychological conflict. Women cannot consciously reconcile the sexual impulsivity that drives them to (want to) fuck the hottest genetic Alpha with the drive for the security that a Beta provider represent with respect to parental investment. This dichotomy is even hard-coded into women’s hormonal cycle, impelling women to the sexual prowess of Alpha dominance in the follicular phase, and to Beta comfort in the luteal phase of menstruation. The solution? A healthy female psyche pushes this irreconcilable conflict to the peripheries of her conscious awareness.

The rationalization hamster we know today was psychologically evolved to mitigate the mental anguish that results from women’s pluralistic sexual strategy.

One of the contentions women participating in the manosphere have with red pill Men is that those men are observing women’s process and bringing it to conscious light in a globalized, meta perspective. Thus the scramble back to NAWALT, or women mature into new ways of knowing what they want, or “silly man, don’t try to figure out women, you’ll never figure us out.”

Recently Professor Mentu had a twitter debate with a manosphere-aware female wondering if there were in fact ‘red pill women’. Naturally in her self-congratulatory solipsism she wanted credit as a woman figuring out the Men who’d figured out women. I got a good laugh out of this, as I do with bloggers like Aunt Giggles and a few select other manosphere women because in truth, all women are red pill women – it’s dragging the truth of the red pill out of them that’s the trick. On some level of consciousness, and as evidenced by behaviors and the construction of larger social conventions, women are aware of their own hypergamy. The Threat, again, is men looking under the hood for women and then overtly attempting to get women to confirm the realities of the observations they’ve drawn conclusions from. The problem is that the feminine imperative will NEVER allow a consensus of women to confirm men’s piecing together of hypergamy. Men observe the process and thereby change it.

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
Stingray
Guest

Are women really unaware of their own attraction triggers? We are aware of the feelings of attraction but unable to put them into words. I was first introduced to game at Vox Popoli a couple of years ago. It took me a couple of days to get past the whole NAWALT thing and allow the information to sink it. When it did, it was like a slap across the face. It explained everything I remember feeling throughout the years and it explained so much. women are aware of their own hypergamy. Most definitely. I don’t know a single woman who… Read more »

Peregrine John
Guest
Peregrine John

Eh, maybe. Maybe. As Stingray points out and as I have observed repeatedly, there are areas – vast realms, perhaps – that most women simply will not even attempt to examine in their own minds. It’s like the internal vision slides right off of it, when direct observation is attempted, and that attempt is precious rare. I suspect it’s the same reason that romance novels are very light on detail and heavy on emotion: to identify what causes the feeling is to negate it. Why? I haven’t the faintest. For me, the cause reinforces the effect, the details bring fantasy… Read more »

Mike C
Guest
Mike C

****By its very nature, women’s strategic sexual pluralism – Alpha Cads and Beta Dads – creates an unresolvable internal psychological conflict. Women cannot consciously reconcile the sexual impulsivity that drives them to (want to) fuck the hottest genetic Alpha with the drive for the security that a Beta provider represent with respect to parental investment.**** This dichotomy is even hard-coded into women’s hormonal cycle, impelling women to the sexual prowess of Alpha dominance in the follicular phase, and to Beta comfort in the luteal phase of menstruation. The solution? ****A healthy female psyche pushes this irreconcilable conflict to the peripheries… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

It’s like the internal vision slides right off of it, when direct observation is attempted Yes. to identify what causes the feeling is to negate it. Well? . . . No. To identify what causes a feeling brings those feelings screaming to the forefront and they are very rarely pleasant feelings. It brings pain and shame. It also bring memories of things one did and now one understands why one did them, and it only makes the feelings worse. The internal vision slides right off to avoid the painful feelings and to avoid the shame that will come from understanding… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

Mike, go read this.

It explains what is going on with 99.5% of women very well.

The Shocker
Guest
The Shocker

Calling out the process does change it, it’s why one of the most important things when a woman is falling for you is to not make her aware of it. It should feel ‘wrong’ to make the girl aware of what she is doing to herself. Got a text message, “That’s the problem. I don’t mind your “jerk” comments cuz they make me laugh so hard.” Didn’t respond to it. That’s one example, there will be a million more when you’re actually together. Don’t try and get “more.” Don’t get all smart and mansplain-y. Let it roll. Regarding the kiss,… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

*** all women are red pill women – it’s dragging the truth of the red pill out of them that’s the trick. On some level of consciousness, and as evidenced by behaviors and the construction of larger social conventions, women are aware of their own hypergamy. The Threat, again, is men looking under the hood for women and then overtly attempting to get women to confirm the realities of the observations they’ve drawn conclusions from. The problem is that the feminine imperative will NEVER allow a consensus of women to confirm men’s piecing together of hypergamy.” The money quote. This… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

MikeC, I didn’t want to go too long on this post so I edited down parts of how this “sexual unawareness” is modified by a woman’s conditions and her positioning in the SMP and various stages of her life. Case in point: There are a few women there who really do seem to be genuine about their preference for more beta traits, and who don’t appear to be sexually attracted to more alpha traits either physically/visually or personality wise. Without directly experiencing this in the existence of a woman, all we have to rely on is a woman’s self-reporting and… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

MikeC, if you’re still slugging it out in the trenches at HUS you might pass along this link to the “betas turn us on” coalition:

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/06/05/girltalk/25-totally-awesome-things-i-love-about-men/#32442

not too many classic beta traits listed there.

LMAO

Emma the Emo
Guest
Emma the Emo

“A woman broadcasting her exclusive arousal for beta men is simply responding to her unconscious acknowledgement of her own conditions (SMV).”

Is this a way to turn off attraction to jerks? Like, if a woman feels really ugly or bad about herself, will she actually feel nothing/very little for jerks and much more about betas?
Or is this effect simply a lie (to herself also if necessary)?

Sword
Guest
Sword

I have no doubt this was a real pickup, the only question is how many attempts in was this?

We only see the success, not the 5, 20, 100 fails leading up to this.

Really, it is fallacious to draw the conclusion that ‘every’ girl on the street you could make out with (I think a realistic number of cute girls, single, and ready to make out in public with random guy is 1 in 20 or less), just like it is a dream to think girls are so perfect ‘they would never lower themselves’ to this.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Think of it more in terms of making her necessity a virtue.

Wudang
Guest
Wudang

Women who are very carefull and very security seeking in general in life often are more drawn to beta men. Some seem to require a lot more comfort to be able to handle any sort of attraction dynamic. But they are still not sexually attracted by the beta traits per se. They just require a ton of beta to be able to be able to feel much attraction to the alpha traits that are there.

FNG
Guest
FNG

Rollo,

I think you made a mistake. There are “male reviews” dedicated to beta men who put on a show about cuddling and promises of unending fidelity. They’re called Couples Conferences and the women I’ve seen eat it up while the beta men promise to do better and the real men just about puke.

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

It is the guys who have never had the privilege of witnessing true, raw female sexuality who are the ones claiming NAWALT. Society frames everything that is feminine as good and virtuous, so that is how men view women, that is until they experience hypergamy firsthand. Thing is though, it isn’t enough to see it form the perspective of the guy who gets shit on all the time- you have to be the guy who gets 5 minute kiss closes or has a fuck buddy who has half a dozen friends who blatantly want to fuck you. You have to… Read more »

Emma the Emo
Guest
Emma the Emo

So.. it’s self-delusion then? It isn’t true loss of attraction to alphas, just pretense?

I think sometimes a woman can actually lose attraction to jerks and gain attraction to betas and it will feel as real as the former, and she’ll act according to it too. All due to feeling she has low SMV. But I don’t know how often this works. I even wrote about this in the past, and now you’re partially confirming it.

AlphaWhiskey
Guest
AlphaWhiskey

“it’s dragging the truth of the red pill out of them that’s the trick.” This makes perfect sense to me. Anyone ever seen the film The Prestige? Once the method is revealed, all the mystery and allure (female mystique) goes out the window, and the magician can no longer capitalize by selling tickets to their show. It’s in the magician’s (female imperative) best interest to guard the inner workings of their illusion dearly, and if anyone starts getting close to comprehension…immediately discredit and marginalize those who would threaten to expose their secrets. Stingray said: “To identify what causes a feeling… Read more »

Senior Beta
Guest
Senior Beta

Rollo, if you don’t want to monetize the blog and you don’t make a mint on the book, I have another suggestion. An on line blog University. In Men’s Studies. Call it, I don’t know, U/Man. You teach psych. Roissy does the sociology studies; marriage (an option) by Athol/Dalrock. Street tactics by Roosh/Krauser. With an elective in Women’s Viewpoint by Sue. What could go wrong? Would be a lot cheaper and more instructive than the Ivy League.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Emma, there’s a reason I coined the term ‘Alpha Widows’ – there are no beta widows – women simply don’t pine away their married mid-lives for the beta they left behind in college. Women have no impetus to trade-down. Hypergamy is always a drive to improve a woman’s socio-sexual status with what they perceive is the best position their looks and sexual agency can attract. Now, I have no doubt that there are women attached to a borderline abusive Alpha who wish he’d go a little beta and be a bit nicer, but even these women aren’t sexually fantasizing about… Read more »

Mike C
Guest
Mike C

An unattached woman on the downslide end of her SMV will logically be motivated to advertise her ‘preference’ for beta men who are observably more in tuned to agree to a provisioning exchange for sex. A woman subject to these conditions would necessarily have to convince beta men of her sexual desire for them in order for the beta guy to feel comfortable in committing to a woman after half a lifetime of witnessing women becoming aroused by exactly the opposite set of sexual arousal circumstances (i.e. spontaneous breeding with the Alpha). I can see this. There is only so… Read more »

Mike C
Guest
Mike C

Even formerly heterosexual women in sexually fluid relationships with their late-life lesbian partners are still attracted to that same Alpha-masculine dominance from their lover. Speaking of making necessity a virtue, it occurred to me that women “switching teams” late in life also points in that direction. How often does one hear about a woman between 30-40 switching from heterosexual to homosexual? I’ve never heard of it. At that age, their SMV is still high enough to at least pull a decent beta provider. Now a woman 50+ or 60+ has lost the majority of her SMV so what she can… Read more »

Mike C
Guest
Mike C

Women who are very carefull and very security seeking in general in life often are more drawn to beta men. Some seem to require a lot more comfort to be able to handle any sort of attraction dynamic. But they are still not sexually attracted by the beta traits per se. They just require a ton of beta to be able to be able to feel much attraction to the alpha traits that are there.

Wudang, this is an insightful point. Thinking about it, I’ve noticed this as well

Emma the Emo
Guest
Emma the Emo

What I was thinking was more about women who are ugly right from the start. They are post-wall at birth. Alphas aren’t attainable. What they can hope for is a beta or even an omega. Perhaps because those guys know how they feel, and because they subconscously know they can’t do better. Oh, and it could also work for a woman who isn’t actually ugly, just feels she is. Can anyone here confirm or debunk this? Are young low self-esteem women or ugly women more attracted to betas and confirm it with their actions? Roissy/Heartiste posted a study not long… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

Are women not capable of this level of introspection/analysis/proactive change, or just unwilling?

I think they are capable, but they don’t have to. Women are not held accountable these days so, not only are we not taught to do this, there is no reason to. We can get what we want without having to do any of this. Basically, there is no reason to face the painful feelings to avoid any future unpleasantries because, really, what for? We aren’t expected to woman up in any way, shape, or form.

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Rollo! 🙂

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Stingray beat me to it! I was just pulling out that exact quotation. @AlphaWhiskey: “Are women not capable of this level of introspection/analysis/proactive change, or just unwilling?” They are unwilling (as some men are too) because it means changing their worldview. It means coming to terms with the fact that not everyone is nice. It means taking responsibility for oneself and one’s life. A good friend of mine talks quite a bit about how our behavior is guided by four needs: certainty, variety, significance, and love. Depending upon which of these needs drives us, we may hold onto false beliefs… Read more »

loop
Guest

Some excellent stuff here. This is the only blog I read that actually has well-thought commentators as well as a nicely edited, concise post-poster (Rollo). I recently saw this advertisement for someone selling his new Game PUA secret shit via youtube-link (I didn’t know until last night actually how big PUA was; I mean conferences and all…it’s like Snake Oil Salesmen 101) for $67.00. It was, psychologically speaking, effective. Seemed accurate. Was unsettling though. He talked about looking at a girls lips. Simple tricks like that. I guess what’s confusing is how this is now something we must learn, or… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

Top notch post once again.

“The sociopath, in his self-importance, can’t be bothered to observe the process of attraction.”

My friends and I chuckle about our friend who has no appreciation of social norms whatsoever, the guy is genuinely is a little bit slow in that regards, something like this blog would be totally beyond his ken.

And yet he gets layed like tiles, he simply pushes through women’s shields (totally oblivious to their reticence) until he gets what he wants. This guy genuinely lands 10s from all sorts of professions and backgrounds.

Dillon
Guest
Dillon

Women want whatever they preceive to be lacking in their lives at any given moment. The same woman who has a secure job in the morning and is attracted to an alpha, will be attracted to a beta if she loses her job in the evening. This is also the reason why its such a bad idea to get married. After marriage her preception changes because of security and goal of marriage already accomplished. With financially secure women, its Alpha game, with finacially insecure women, its Beta game. Welfare State has made most women financially secure so beta is usually… Read more »

Jason773
Guest
Jason773

MikeC, “There are a few women there who really do seem to be genuine about their preference for more beta traits, and who don’t appear to be sexually attracted to more alpha traits either physically/visually or personality wise.” I actually do think that there are some women like this, although they are very very rare in the “attractive woman” population. I can attest to this as this was my first gf’s character, whole heartedly. I started out beta with her (little gifts, dates, always calling, sweet gestures and notes, etc.) and she ate that stuff up while also exponentially reciprocating.… Read more »

Ted D
Guest

“Ironically it was TedD who prompted Vox’s post response:” Glad to know I’m generating a little buzz. But I don’t get why it is ironic. “I actually do think that there are some women like this, although they are very very rare in the “attractive woman” population.” My first LTR mate was like this, but she was indeed behind the curve in terms of looks because she “bloomed” rather late. When we were together she constantly underestimated her SMV until she turned 21 and hit the club scene. To the best of my knowledge she didn’t go full on princess… Read more »

trackback

[…] Rollo has a post as well. Share this:EmailTwitterFacebookLike this:LikeOne blogger likes this. […]

AlphaWhiskey
Guest
AlphaWhiskey

Kate, Stingray – thanks for the illumination, the answer is obvious now in it’s simplicity: lack of incentive.

Wudang
Guest
Wudang

“What I was thinking was more about women who are ugly right from the start. They are post-wall at birth. Alphas aren’t attainable. What they can hope for is a beta or even an omega. Perhaps because those guys know how they feel, and because they subconscously know they can’t do better. Oh, and it could also work for a woman who isn’t actually ugly, just feels she is. Can anyone here confirm or debunk this? Are young low self-esteem women or ugly women more attracted to betas and confirm it with their actions?” Emma, start looking at couples you… Read more »

Mike C
Guest
Mike C

I actually do think that there are some women like this, although they are very very rare in the “attractive woman” population. I think you’ve nailed it here, and I noticed that Wudang covers this in his detailed comment. I noticed the discussion you and Zach were having and one of you mentioning fishing in the 8+ lake. Before I became exclusive with my fiancee, I’d say I was only considering physically attractive women as well. I’m relatively confident that if you sorted women into either attractive, mediocre/average, or unattractive, you would see clear patterns of desired alpha traits and… Read more »

Wudang
Guest
Wudang

“I’m relatively confident that if you sorted women into either attractive, mediocre/average, or unattractive, you would see clear patterns of desired alpha traits and attraction triggers based on where they fall in that division.” There is research which very clearly shows this. Women desire more and more the more attractive they are themselves and the less attractive they are the less alpha traits and looks they desire but core beta traits must remain to a greater extent because without it the relationship just could`t work. But as I said it isn`t the whole story. There are really hot women who… Read more »

Kevin Anon
Guest
Kevin Anon

Rollo, this is a very interesting discussion. You’ve been talking about just about every angle of the SMV marketplace, so I wondered if you were looking for an idea for another post, let me suggest one to you: red pill betas. I’m a beta, I know this. Even with top game, I’ll only rise to a higher-beta from a lower-beta (according to Heartiste’s test). Be this as it may, and given what I know now, it puts a very different perspective on my relations with women, and the decisions I will make. But still, it causes me to wonder: Which… Read more »

nek
Guest
nek

@Kevin Anon, I like that idea for a post. However, I think it is pretty simple to answer and for the most part, you’ve gotten to the answer yourself. By ‘going it alone’ it doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy women physically or at an arm’s length emotionally, but rather that is the extent of it. I’ve been using this comment that a commentator over at CH made, which is ultimately addresses the concept of the red-pill beta (I think the commenter went by ‘gramps’; not verbatim but the point is still the same): “I think the real takeaway from the… Read more »

Roger
Guest

Rational, analytical people find it almost impossible to understand the mentality of those who operate in the realm of persuasion, and of power. Women, politicians, marketers. We think that if we could just get into the good graces of one of these people, we could sit down and say “hey, I see what you did there. Good job on selling that fizzy water/covering up that nosy intern’s disappearance/advancing your hypergamous agenda” and they will chuckle because we have cast aside the facade to get to the core. But there is no core, no admission of the pursuit of naked advantage.… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

Geisha Kate summed it up best: Its a simple matter of perception. An onlooker cannot feel what the people in the video felt. To them it was an awesome experience. The onlooker can’t tap into that and so it appears silly, etc. (no offense). Girls can look at this video and say, “that wouldn’t work on me,” but it likely would, and guys can look at the video and say it was because of his looks, which may be part of it, but its not the whole picture. “To them it was an awesome experience.” Isn’t this conclusion also a… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Yes, it is the conclusion of an onlooker, but an onlooker who knows that everyone thinks their game/flirting/etc. somehow looks different or better than someone else’s, when, in fact, we nearly all look foolish (to other people) when we make these attempts 🙂 An onlooker who knows that everyone thinks their love story is better than another’s and no other couple could possibly feel the same sorts of feelings that they feel. Its the egocentric, personal fable way of looking at things. When the fact is, very few, if any of us, are any different psychologically or biologically than anyone… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Oh, now I get what you’re saying. That she wasn’t enjoying herself. Well, again, that is where we can be deceived as the onlooker. She does indicate in some ways that’s she’s uncomfortable, but, overall, I don’t think she is. She doesn’t appear to kiss him in fear as in she feels he’s dangerous, so she’d better bring him over to her side. To me, that’s not what fear looks like. Is anyone else old enough to remember the Peurto Rican Day Parade raping incident? Well, I happened to be in New York City that weekend helping my best friend… Read more »

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

King A gets the buzzkillington award this week.

Critizing for going in for a kiss? Really? It’s not like he tried to finger bang her.

I’ve gone in for a kiss and have gotten rejected and have backed off. He didn’t violate this poor girl.

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

Another thing, who cares if she was uncomfortable?

Should we never ever do anything that might make precious uncomfortable? If she is uncomfortable about having guys approach her, then she shouldn’t go out to any social events.

Women have no problem destroying men’s egos in public. Having the annoyance of someone finding you attractive and approaching is the just a fact of life that they have to get used to.

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

Basically, there is no reason to face the painful feelings to avoid any future unpleasantries because, really, what for? We aren’t expected to woman up in any way, shape, or form.

A woman simply “is”; a man must become.

Thing is, I don’t necessarily want a red pill woman. Part of the feminine charm is blissful ignorance.

If women weren’t masculinized, there would be neither need nor benefit for women to “open their eyes”. The only reason we need to try to pry their eyes open is because chicks these days are nowhere near sufficiently feminine.

trackback

[…] Rational Male – Play Nice, Women Studies […]

trackback

[…] wrote about it here on sept […]

rivsdiary
Guest

thanks for posting the video, rollo. seeing it posted a third time made me actually watch it. looking forward to reading the interesting debate you write about.

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

Well, I suppose qualifying my criticism every other sentence didn’t help clarify a subtle point. GeishaKate and FuriousFerret will draw lines of opposition rather than exploring the far more intriguing interstices of an encounter, no matter how many times I emphasize my intent. She was not gang-groped and raped like a tube-topped tart on Puerto Rican Day. Conceded. Also true: her discomfort is not the factor to override all considerations as feminism would insist. (“An Antioch Policy tyrannizes amour, suffocates it dead.”) She does indicate in some ways that’s she’s uncomfortable, but, overall, I don’t think she is. “Overall,” she… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

Good Luck Chuck wrote: I don’t necessarily want a red pill woman. Part of the feminine charm is blissful ignorance. If women weren’t masculinized, there would be neither need nor benefit for women to “open their eyes”. The only reason we need to try to pry their eyes open is because chicks these days are nowhere near sufficiently feminine. Very perceptive and well said. I would take it a step further and say there really aren’t any “red pill women.” Women are interested in the behind-the-scenes work of masculinity like we are interested in the secrets of make up and… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Oh my goodness are you high maintenance. 🙂 We do know what happened afterwards. She had a “paarty” to attend and she contacted him at some point later but he was then dating someone he liked. He posted as much at Heartiste. I think you’re assuming he wanted more out of this. She’s a girl he just met on the street. What reason does he have to be invested in her to want more than what he got? If your goal is kissing someone on the street, your actions will be different than if you’re attempting to have a fulfilling… Read more »

trackback

[…] start with Steve. Many have seen his video of a fast seduction blogged over at Krausers and Rollos blogs, and discussed in a guest post at Roosh’s place, and on his website. For those who […]

walawala
Guest
walawala

Rollo wrote: “”Are women really unaware of their own attraction triggers? Or is it that they are so preoccupied with optimizing hypergamy (in a short window of SMV peak) that they’re simply never bothered by an inquisitive thought about what factors contribute to their being turned on enough to fuck one guy, but conversely being attracted to another for a long term commitment? Are women ever really prompted to observe their own process?”” After reviewing this and other videos and then trying the techniques out on my own with relative success, this statement rings very true. I think that if… Read more »

ProofNeeded
Guest
ProofNeeded

I made a post about how and when women choose beta males and I think it’s when they are making a clear move up on the genetic scale in terms of looks or creativity or intelligence. A woman who is a 6 or a 7 in terms of her value who locks down an 8 or a 9 with a beta personality is somebody who is essentially winning the lottery. I’ve met confident, attractive beta men before and they get away with it because they are supremely high value in other areas of their life. But how they get away… Read more »

www.authenticpua.com
Guest

Crikey some of you lot surmise so much from my approach in this video! Pages and pages of it! Point 1 : It was my 1st approach of the night, I had a few drinks and I was a little half cut to be honest. I’ve seen the criticism that I had to appoach tons of girls to get the footage, well that’s just not true. Point 2 : I wasn’t that bothered about whether I saw her again or not, but in that moment we had something of a connection. I’ve written extensively about this, pages on it. In… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Bascially, the old PUA paradigm of comfort and attraction is just wrong, frankly. You calibrate to each approach. I emphatically agree. Desire is a spontaneous, chemical arousal between people, not a pre-written contract. By placing preconditions (comfort) on what will or will not qualify for a woman’s intimacy, she essentially rules out any chance for genuine, organic desire. You’ve basically by-passed the arousal stages and moved directly into comfortable familiarity – comfort, rapport, familiarity, are all anti-seductive. Sexual tension is by definition is uncomfortable; it’s supposed to be in order to prompt desire. From Wait For it? First and foremost,… Read more »

trackback

[…] it or anything, it just seems odd.You need to learn some Game.Chateau HeartisteRooshRed Pill RoomRational MaleDalrockThere are plenty of others. Follow their blogrolls.I'm no Game expert. However, they do have […]

141
Guest
141

A red pill woman is one who is aware enough to use her low notch count and femininity to secure marriage with an Alpha Male.

Women these days are being taught to be slutty co-workers and that they can have it all.

So the hidden knowledge or red pill wisdom is just old wisdom of being a feminine virgin(or close to it.)

trackback

[…] the author of The Rational Male. This is a lengthy quote, but worth the time. You can read it in context here. [M]ore sociopathic men, being entirely self-concerned and outcome indifferent, are primarily the […]

cynthia
Guest
cynthia

Oh, I think I’m probably one of those women who you cited as saying “we’re in to different things”. I wasn’t trying to pull NAWALT on it or deny that these things exist and have power. Rather, I was trying to state that some of us (not all, some) have a different set of experiences/likes/dislikes that inform the way we’d handle a situation like this, or in general, how such reactions are triggered. The same mechanisms are definitely in place, but don’t necessarily operate in the same manner, or perhaps malfunction entirely. This, in me at least, is a result… Read more »

trackback

[…] http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/women-studies/ – “Women Studies” – Rolo Tomassi. […]

trackback

[…] Rollo Tomassi’s Analysis: […]

Djeed
Guest
Djeed

Holy shit! This is the most inspiring video I have ever seen! So it is really possible!! It works!! Now I just need to figure out how the hell can I get to this point.

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic

All of this so called PUA “in field” videos are fake. Notice how she keeps looking into the camera and doesn’t ask about it. (Because its pre-staged). A woman in a real spontaneous street situation like that would be asking about the camera, avoiding it, telling them to turn it off. There’s a few in field videos making the youtube rounds; one where a PUA is claiming a pick up in a bar but the bar is mysteriously empty except for him and the girl he’s supposedly “picking up” and it looks like someone’s basement bar in their house. Then… Read more »

Djeed
Guest
Djeed

Got a question for all.
Is this level of pick up attainable for an average AFC in the mid 20s like me or is it like aiming for an olympic medal in crawl?
I have to say I am a bit lost on how proficiency is measured in this world (what is reasonable to expect for an average person and what would be rather considered as professional)

Sitaram Goel Shah
Guest
Sitaram Goel Shah

Djeed, read the comment above your’s.

Djeed
Guest
Djeed

Sitaram, I already did, but none of them seem to answer my question. Rollo says in other posts that alpha is a mindset. Is it possible for a 26-just-unplugged beta like me to end up banging hot girls in such a way or am I doomed to a somewhat mediocre sexual life? I just want to know what are reasonable short-term and long-term goals for me not to put an unbearable frustration on my shoulders that makes me go back to the matrix (this has happened to me already) For instance, if you would like to gain muscle weight, a… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic

Djeed, the comment above your other one points out the video, like other PUA “in field” videos, is pre-staged. The PUA industry is a parasitical one that preys on and feeds off the anxiety and insecurity its host – desperate young and middle aged men. You are feeling PRECISELY the way the video was made to make you feel – confused, insecure, self-doubtful. This prepares your feeble mind for product consumption; dvds, workshops, lairs, etc. Don’t fall for it. As for muscling up, if you work out and improve your looks and social skills you probably will do better with… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@Hopeless Troll, nothing in this video was staged.:
http://krauserpua.com/2012/08/21/street-kiss-close-video-of-my-friend/

Djeed yes, you can.

The first step is to unplug and understand the desperation of feminine imperative proselytizers like Hopeless. It is vital to her ego investments that you stay plugged-in and encourage other men to do the same.

If you’re looking for a more intensive focus on PUArtistry I suggest Krauser’s site to begin with, then hit up YaReally for some good forums.

Finally, you may be encouraged by the story of a friend of mine BeginningDJ:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198079

Also, The DJ Bible:
http://www.mts.net/~bpony/djbible/

Hopeless Troll
Guest
Hopeless Troll

“The first step is to unplug and understand the desperation of feminine imperative proselytizers like Hopeless. ” Puh-leeze. What the hell is a “feminine imperative”? [Lazy is what I’ve come to expect from female solipsism, but,..The Feminine Reality & Fem-Centrism. Try to keep up.] Hugh Heffner wrote way back in the 50s that women were always trying to thwart the “free love ways of men”. Well since then women have jumped on board with the “free love ways of men” and men are still complaining! What gives? As far as that video, its not proper etiquette to call a blog… Read more »

Hopeless Troll
Guest
Hopeless Troll

I wonder how they got a totally unknown foreigner to agree before hand to pretend to get “picked up” with a supposedly “stranger’s” camera in her face, and allow it to be posted to youtube?

What’s your take on that, Rollo?

[Why don’t you go take that up with Steve yourself you dumb cunt?]

Djeed
Guest
Djeed

It is true that the girl looks directly in the sight of the camera at least two times (2:36 and 3:05). Rollo, what do you have to say to this? Your link to krauserpua doesn’t prove anything. Also, how come their voices are so much clearer than anyone else’s in the video? Does Steve have a hidden ambient micro? [http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/street-kiss-close-analysis/#comment-364366] Hopeless Troll, I have never spent a cent in dvds or workshops and don’t mean to do it until I have first proved myself that this actually works for me. I may be a beta, but I’m not stupid. On… Read more »

Djeed
Guest
Djeed

Ok, just checked the last link right now from Rollo’s response. They could have been using a camera like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm0WmEkQCPY

There is no reason now to think it is pre-staged.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@Djeed, read Reality vs.The Internet. http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/08/13/reality-vs-the-internet/ It’s entirely possible it was staged, and it’s entirely possible it was organic, but that’s not the point. What IS important is understanding the principles behind what Steve’s video is illustrating, and weigh them against what you experience yourself. Do you not think that a guy with Steve’s background in Game wouldn’t have thought that anyone one would challenge the genuineness of this video? And yet he posts it anyway knowing that even a sympathetic manosphere (not to mention feminist cunts) would still doubt it. It’s easy for trolls like Hopeless to disparage Game… Read more »

Djeed
Guest
Djeed

Rollo, thanks for your thoughts. Although I still need to read some more articles, I would rather say I am in an un-plugged state.

I feel now in the Matrix scene where Neo has to jump that building and tells himself “great… no problem… free my mind…”, but keeps falling to the ground.

What I need now is a good plan with some reasonable short-term goals to start with and go out to try and fail.

This is going to be a titanic task for me, but I am committed.

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic

“I feel now in the Matrix scene where Neo has to jump that building and tells himself “great… no problem… free my mind…”, but keeps falling to the ground.”

As long as you’re quoting Hollywood films, you are still very much plugged into the “matrix” of mainstream American culture.

Don’t feed the beast.

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic

“On the other hand, I have personally seen friends of mine in a disco getting a girl on their knees in less than a minute, so whether or not this video is a fake, I already know that this is somehow possible. ”

Dude, you are just now finding this out about Americans? The rest of the globe has known about your cheap promiscuity for a couple hundred years now.

Djeed
Guest
Djeed

Hopeless, yes I liked that film. I am quoting it because it represents a good analogy of the famous Kübler-Ross’ main stages a person experiments when changing a strongly hard-wired belief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance). Also because Rollo uses this film to illustrate some of the concepts he’s talking about. This way it’s easier for everyone to understand.

Dude, I am not American. Your “cheap promiscuity” exists everywhere in the globe.

Djeed
Guest
Djeed

Got another question for all

It is claimed in this video that attraction occurs in the first 10 seconds only with appropriate body language. But I assume this confident body language is a result of many success stories.

If one has never had any success whatsoever, how can one genuinely show such a body language? How can I fake the correct body language if I never had a successful pickup? Do I have to expect some luck before I get confident enough or should I build first enough confidence through other means?

trackback

[…] with forecasting the economic results of policies, it is doing the same to gender dynamics. And as Rollo […]