Case Study – Wanted: New Daddy

I love Post Secret. Anytime I have humanitarian doubt about hypergamy or the twinges of sentimental wishes for a kinder, gentler, fem-centrism all I have to do is read the current week’s offerings of anonymous ‘secrets’ and, without fail, all doubt fades away to callous certainties. Ahhh, le sigh...

I’ve delved into the single mother cottage industry topic before, but in light of a recent PM and last week’s Wall discussion I thought I’d entertain this comment:

Wow. I have read some very interesting posts. I need some help and since most of you seem to be honest and not out to hurt anyone, here goes…

The Facts: 29, Female, Divorced mom of two toddlers, works full time, working on building self-esteem, being happier. Not seeking permanent relationship; however, not interested in whoring out.

I have met several men I am interested in and we talk and possibly hang out. What I am scared of is them thinking I am daddy shopping. I also don’t want to be left and laid. I am willing to “buddy up” but I do expect a friendship beyond the sex. How do I approach or have a discussion with a man telling him my time is rare, but still communicate my expectations of casual hangouts and fooling around? I am a woman and yes there are nights where he would need to engage with me in mind blowing sex. There may be a bad day at work where I just need a beer buddy. It is difficult for a woman with self respect to blow and go so thats not my intent.

I tried the honest approach, but never heard from him again. I gave it one more shot (different guy) and time will tell. Ive never been in this type of relationship before. I respect myself too much to engage in a one night stand only. Any ideas?

From what I read ut sounds like I am pretty much screwed. Im not single resulting from some kind of feminist movement crap. I like a guy to challenge me etc. I am a single mom because I am divorced from a bad person (cheater, abusive). I don’t seek a relationship because I know the majority of men don’t want the “baggage” of my babies. Additionally, I don’t want to risk hurting my kids. They are first. I am all they have and in a way they are all I have. All I want is an adult. If it progresses to more so be it. If not then that’s cool too. I don’t want to be viewed as just a piece, that is where the honesty comes in.

A lot of what gets offered for women in her position is usually the standard fare about single mommies and how guys perceive them. Baby-daddy issues, scheduling, substitute father interviewing and how single guys are “supposed” to react to them. All of this is valid of course, but after reading her own take of her own situation, I’m not so sure she’s really aware of (or is in denial of) her own conditions.

This woman is a textbook example of what I call Proactive Infidelity. According to her longer account she’d knocked it out with the Bad Boy (abusive, cheater) who was a “challenge” and got her excited. I’m going to do her the favor of assuming both her children were by him and if one is now 4 y.o. this would mean she was at oldest 24 y.o. when she became pregnant. Now that the Bad Boy has proven himself unreliable in sharing parental investment responsibilities, the guy she does end up in an LTR or marriage with necessarily MUST assume the Bad Boy’s responsibilities and liabilities.

New Daddies and Independent Women®

It’s essential to the single-mother rationale that they convince themselves they aren’t shopping for a “new daddy”. The fem-centrism of today’s social structure already has a long and well established framework ready to enable the most predictable of hamster spins. She’s an “Independent Woman®”, she “makes her own damn money” and ‘walks like da boss, talks like da boss,…” etc. The Independent Woman® brand is one of the most versatile social conventions because it covers so many situations. Blanket rationales like epithets of ‘Misogynist’ or ‘Homophobe’ pale in comparison to the usefulness of the Independent Woman®.

The Independent Woman® is unassailable and any contrary deviation from it leads back to the circular argument of patriarchal men’s selfish oppressions – feminism’s favorite trope. She “don’t need a man”, but she needs a Man. The real tragedy is the desperation apparent in the false pride. The truth is she needs a Man, her children need a Man, in spite of the pretentiousness fem-centrism has conditioned into her. But her decisions have left that Daddy position open to the lowest bidder.

The undeniable, unavoidable truth is that whether or not this is a conscious effort on her part, this is what the next guy, usually the Nice Guy, MUST deal with. Mr. Dependable, Mr. Loyal supporter/provider has no other choice but to assume parental investments that were never his. She bred with the Bad Boy and the Nice Guy raises her children. Any woman who can pull this off hits a bio-evolutionary jackpot.

The good news for her is that there are countlessly reinforced social conventions specifically designed with the latent purpose of making such a Nice Guy (essentially a proactive cuckold) think he’s a martyr and held to be in the highest regard of manhood for “looking past” her situation and “loving her for who she is.” Rest assured she’ll eventually attract a beta so conditioned to forgive her past indiscretions (essentially justifying and rewarding them) in exchange for the sexuality he’s been deprived of for so long. Her marginal intimate acceptance will only affirm his AFC beliefs and his “stepping up” to parent her kids will make him tolerable when he’s not as exciting as the Bad Boy was.

Now all that may sound harsh, but it’s important to understand just how tough a road single mothers have to hoe. If laid out in harsh realistic terms, most women don’t willingly want to be saddled with an AFC marriage of convenience, and neither do they want to be locked in with an abusive Bad Boy, so what do they do?

First, they need to understand where they’re at and how they got to be who they are now. They’ve hit the Wall by default.

Own your indiscretions ladies, own your mistakes. Being a single mother, despite the feminized social conventions, doesn’t make you a hero; it makes you a statistic. As I stated originally, any guy that accepts you intimately MUST deal with you as a single mother. This means he MUST accept your schedule, your children’s schedule, their father’s schedule, both family’s schedules, and the emotional fallout from all this. The feminine imperative has taught you to believe you’re entitled to expecting him to want to be with you (even if this is just as a fuck buddy) in preference to a single, childless, generally younger and more sexually available woman. She’s your competition. And in spite of all this he’s expected to still be the Man, by denying his sexual predilections in favor of your circumstances.

Your fundamental acknowledgment and showing a constant genuine appreciation for the sacrifice he makes to accommodate your past is essential to any LTR you have in the future. I’m not saying that your kids shouldn’t be your first priority – they absolutely should – but it is imperative that you know and demonstrably appreciate ANY guy who’d make the concession to still entertain you intimately after knowing this.

A lot of women love to gnash and wail about how they’ve become undateable after they’ve acquired single-mom status. Actually, no. There’s a whole modern world that’s teeming with AFC providers, with Cap’n Save-a-ho Martyr Mentalities just itching to get at the reverent pussy they missed out on for most of their 20’s and are more than willing to follow the feminine meme and convince themselves that single mommies are just victims of the Jerks they knocked out their kids with.

Daddies & Buffers

Understand, single mommies are another form of Buffers. The deductive logic is that they’re ‘easier’ due the their conditions and the risk of rejection lower (particularly when rejection-phobic or in a dry spell), but the potential long term ramifications are never worth the effort incomparisson to childless women. Rejection is better than regret.

The problem with actualizing your fantasy encounter with a MILF is in the ‘M’ part of the acronym – ‘Mother’ – ergo, a single mommie with all of the very “real world” baggage that goes along with that. I’ve tapped my share of older women when I was in my 20s and I can tell you that the sex was no more or less extrordinary than the younger women (at least in terms of performance) I’ve been with. The only major difference? I never had to worry about 22 year old single girls finding a babysitter for a night or had to be concerned with her making too much noise during sex so as not to wake up her son in the next room. Nor was I concerned about it being “her weekend” to have the kids.

It’s very easy to assume single mothers are victims by default – some are, most aren’t. Trust me, a majority of single mothers are single for a reason – and it’s not always because of their Jerk BFs or deadbeat husbands. The common belief is that MILFs encourage an idea that they are more sexually available; you’ve got to ask yourself, why would they be motivted to be more sexual while single than when they we’re married or in an LTR? They become motivated to be sexual and hit the gym when single, but wouldn’t make the same effort when married, why? Because the guy wasn’t worth it OR because she became comfortable, he lost interest, became fed up, and she’s prompted to be more concerned with all that in order to achieve a long term security with another man that necessitates she do so?

Don’t get me wrong, there are attractive women in their 30s & 40s but these are uncommon exceptions to the rule. The social reinforcement of the MILF fantasy is just a modern extension and evolution of the “she’s still got it” social convention with the latent purpose of leveling the playing field for 30-40 something single mothers unable to sexually compete for the same calibre men with 18-28 y.o. women. The harsh truth is that a beautiful, sexually available, single woman in her mid 20’s is at a decided advantage for sexual selection than a single mother entering her 30’s who’s encumbered with all the responsibilities of being a parent. Schedules of Mating issues aside, even when both women are equally attractive and equally sexually available, the childless woman is still at an advantage because she comes with less liabilities and represents a “fresh start” in comparison.

Women’s sexual value naturally declines as they ages – it serves an older woman’s purpose if she can redefine sexuality as her conditions change through life, and convince herself and society that she’s correct and genuine. Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore may epitomize this fantasy, but in reality, there are thousands of women filling gyms across the country for every Demi Moore convinced that they “still got it” while every year a new crop of 22-24 y.o. hotties commands the attention of the same men they’re competing for. This is just the natural extension of the ‘Have It All” lie that women have been sold for the last 50 years. Men only too eagerly buy this convention as well because it facilitates a Buffer for them and (presumedly) presents an easier route to getting laid. Therefore it is also in their interest that the myth and the Buffer be reinforced.

77 comments

  1. There is no pride in being a divorced parent. There is only pride in making the best of a bad situation and trying to keep your children from being too adversely affected. Being a divorced parent carries a lot of shame and guilt and leaves your entire reputation open to criticism from anyone, regardless of their faults or how well they would have fared in your situation, as you’re labelled a slut, etc. You become a target for men who want to put MILF on their notchcount as some sort of novelty fuck.

    “They become motivated to be sexual and hit the gym when single, but wouldn’t make the same effort when married, why?” This is a little TMI, but maybe it will be helpful to someone. In the last year of my marriage, I made a sex contract with my ex-husband. For his fortieth birthday, I promised a certain amount of, er, “activity.” When the emotional connection isn’t there, it just doesn’t matter how much you “try.” As far as exercise, my ex complained when I exercised! “Who are you trying to look good for,” he asked once. “Me,” I said. Then another time he’d suggest I lose weight. When I did, it didn’t seem to make any difference. Same with my hair. If it was shorter, he’d say your hair used to look so beautiful longer. So, I’d grow it longer. Then he’d say, your hair looked cute when it was short.

    You don’t have to tell me that having a child is an encumbrance to finding a mate. I came from a group of women who perpetuate some of the myths you’re writing about, Rollo, and then the only conclusion to draw for why you are alone is that you are somehow interally flawed. That is why I prefer to be here in Truthland because I can at least say, you know what? Its not all because I have personality defects, which I do. I’m a fallible human being. Its not to be used as an excuse, I understand, but being a mother makes a difference- makes it harder. Now some men will be honest about it and others won’t. I’ve heard variations of “You’re a mother” a couple times as a man tries to wriggle away. The more you hear it, it gets both easier and harder to hear. Easier because you’re starting to get used to it, but harder because they obviously knew that before getting involved with me. I’ve also been involved with men who were perfectly fine with me having a child. I had dinner with one of them recently; and by dinner I mean he cooked at his house for my daughter and I and went out of his way to plan the menu around what she would like as well as planning a fun dessert for us to make that would be entertaining for her.

    I would say to the person who wrote the comment: be hopeful but realistic. Being alone is both incredibly challenging, but it builds such appreciation in one for the little things that people do for you. You’ll find yourself thanking the bagboy at your grocery store a little more genuinely and enjoying those rare times out in the adult world a bit more. So, in that way, there is something good that comes out of something bad.

  2. >>>Not seeking permanent relationship; however, not interested in whoring out.

    Translation: looking to act like a slut, but you aren’t allowed to call me one and my hamster is going to rationalize away my behavior as “meeting my non-negotiable needs.”

    Would I have considered marrying a 29 yr old woman with a couple kids? Possibly, but that’s a remote possibility. She’d have to have been very attractive and very fit – 8+ – warm, and highly supportive of me. It’d still be a tough call, given her track record of horrendous choices. I’d be even less likely to “just hit it” though, she would be putting her kids through enough crap without me adding “What happened to Temporary Uncle Joe?” to the mix of emotional garbage the poor ankle biters have to deal with.

  3. Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks.

    Of course they’re all victims. Now she wants a good man and the Beta that opens his wallet in exchange for sex will always be treated like a second class citizen while her and her kids come first. She was irresponsible in getting pregnant by a man that wasn’t qualified enough to father her children and now has to pay the consequences of her actions. Such Women should be Shamed for their poor decisions by society, not reinforced by labeling them independent and strong willed. The real sad part of it all is that the children pay the price by being raised in a broken household.

  4. Nice post.

    …And it’s timely. Just last night, I noticed my daughter and a few friends watching the finale to “The Bachelorette.” This season offers up a case study on both male and female psychology on this topic. I confess I don’t know all the twists to the season. I’ve watched a full five minutes of it (and am embarrassed to admit that much). But in brief, the star of this season appears to be a MILF and “hero” single mom with her bad boy spawn in tow. (Am I wrong? Do we know a more sanitized version of the kid’s existence?).

    Evidently, a few episodes back one of her would-be suitors uttered the obvious: that the kid was “baggage” to a relationship. The pop TV-news media had a field day with the comment. The young man who made the comment was completely castigated for violating the feminine heroism of this bachelorette a.k.a. “Independent Woman®.” The societal hamster was in full sprint. Even more sickening, however, were the other suitors! These men were equally culpable in the denial if not more so. These men were extremely quick to throw the one non-PC violator under the bus. And for what? For a chance at getting into the “Independent Woman’s®” pussy. Amazing really.

    When the winning champ chump emerged in last night’s episode, he had all the markings of suffering The Winner’s Curse.

  5. The State should incentivise marrying single mothers /give a divorce get out of liabilities free card – I’d assume the marriage/breakdown risks are at least as high as with first divorces (i.e a lot higher than for first marriages) so there’s a real disincentive on guys to assume the increased liabilities, even assuming they’re as likable as GeishaKate which can’t be a good thing for society.

  6. Recently witnessed a “harassment” complaint at work. The “victim” was an overweight, unwed mother who, if cleaned up and in- shape might be able to hit 5. The “perp” was an older beta who wrote her a love letter. His crime basically being that he was “creepy” and not alpha enough to straight up ask her out. Needless to say this land whale shamelessly complained to EVERYONE about her “dilemma.” I couldn’t imagine how a warpig in her state could look a gift-schmuck in the mouth like that until yesterday. Waiting outside for her were three hapless LJBF-ed omegas. This slob would rather feed her hamster than suffer the “indignity” of being with the only type of man she could realistically get commitment from. Absolutely sickening.

  7. Single mothers always say that their ex was an abusive asshole. They never admit to any responsibility for the breakup. The blame is always solely put on the ex for why they’re now single.

    It’s funny how many beta chumps fall for this drivel. They buy into the fantasy that they are getting to play the hero and rescuing this poor damsel in distress that was treated so horribly by her last asshole/alpha baby’s daddy.

    The truth is that the beta’s with their white knight fantasies are being played for suckers. They would be dropped kick to the curb in a second by the poor damsel in distress at the smallest hint of attraction from the previous badboy.

    The lesson here is don’t hook up with single mothers and be tricked into raising some other man’s kids. Unless she’s a widow, the very fact that shes a single mom is enough of a red flag that she’s not a good prospect for a long term relationship.

  8. Actually overheard some girls talking about a single mom at a coffee shop a few months back, saying she only needs to get pregnant again in order to nail her current guy into getting married and all her problems disappear….. What was interesting was the way they were so supportive of her and the plot to nail this guy /no compassion or consideration for the guy at all. It was quite an enlightening 20 minutes. Depending on the outcome of course, this could easily have been a double single Mum ending another bad relationship….

  9. @Jon: Interesting idea.

    The state already takes away your privileges to be considered a rational human being once you are divorced. They assume because you are in that position that you are not capable of making good decisions. Should you be unable to keep your divorce out of court (I was until my ex took it there a year later) you will be subject to what other people think is right for your children. If it ever happens to any of you, which I hope it won’t, if at all possible, keep it out of court because it takes the decisions out of your hands and puts them into that of a third party mediator. And they may not take into consideration that you’d want to see your daughter on her birthday before five o’clock, etc.; you have simply lost your rights to things that should be in your control.

    Divorce is severe and harsh and should be a very last resort.

  10. @Jon: EEK!!!!!!!!!! When I said interesting idea I was referring to your marriage incentive, not the post that snuck in just now before mine posted.

  11. This highlights one of the biggest issues with girls dating behavior today.

    They expect two men. A girl I’m currently seeing, a tall and slender brunette at the peak of her looks (I can almost see it going down hill from the foundation on her makeup) has another guy she flirts with on the side. He takes her to new movies she really wants to see. While I show her old movies on Netflix.

    Men, choose your role BEFORE entering the relationship, lest you become new-movie-and-dinner guy.

  12. Key question here is the quality of intimacy offered by such women. Single moms as well as carousel riders may be good for a random bang, but speaking from an ltr/str/wanna see the value added stuff screening perspective… Can these women make a man feel like a man? Even if you are the next bad boy on her list do you get the same intensity of passion. Sure she bends and blows well but does she bond and make you feel wanted? Leaving the issue of kids aside it is my perception that single mothers and long time carousel riders are the same in that the quality of intimacy may not be as good . Maybe some one with more experience wants to chip in on this.?

  13. >>@Jon: EEK!!!!!!!!!! When I said interesting idea I was referring to your marriage incentive, not the post that snuck in just now before mine posted.

    Yep, understood, np!

  14. While I wouldn’t blame a woman for divorcing if there’s abuse and cheating, most of these women simply overlooked these issues or thought they could ‘change’ him over time. They liked the alpha or status of their man enough to believe their own rationalizations.

    GeishaKate: I have no shame about being a divorced dad. While I wasn’t a perfect husband, my ex-wife was the one who destroyed everything. For every thing I might have to be ashamed of, there are dozens of things I can be proud of.

    You outline a few things your husband did that you didn’t like, but these are really minor (in that they can and should have been fixable with proper commitment and resources).

    …and yes, men in their 30s and 40s are going to take advantage of their increased sexual market value. Most of these men got nothing in their 20s… why wouldn’t they want to play around while their value is high like single women do in their 20s?

    Finally, you are not internally flawed. You are getting older and your sexual value is diminishing. At the same time, there are plenty of willing women for older men to play with, so why commit? Commitment to a woman is a big deal, especially with the divorce climate we live it. It’s even bigger if there’s significant baggage like kids. It takes a lot to overcome these obstacles – even if a man is ready for commitment, he never really knows whether the woman will stay committed to him.

    Women need to bring more than sex to the table and yet, during the last 40 years, society (esp. feminism) has been asking men to bring more to the table without asking women to do the same.

  15. @Coy: I’ve been told in the past when I’ve made the distinction between a single mother and a divorced mother that there really is no difference, but I do think there is one.

    While it is as possible that a single mother has only had one sexual partner, its less likely, in my opinion, than that of a divorced mother, especially if she married young. Information about the duration of the relationship would be important to know, in my, again, humble opinion.

    I’ve had conversations with guys about whether getting involved with women fresh out of divorce is a good idea. They sometimes think a woman needs time to see who’s out there. They want to feel like they were chosen, not convenient. There is some validity to this because you don’t want the woman, years later, thinking: “I rushed into that and never really dated. Maybe I should have looked around more.” This could even be the cause of the divorce in the first place.

    I’ve actually come round to thinking, yes, it is best to scoop these girls up before they become too independent. Women coming out of divorce are very eager to replace what they lost and often form a VERY strong bond with the first person they get involved with. Go too long single and, well, you may eventually sleep with someone because you really like them and you want to feel that intimacy again. Some women don’t restrain themselves at all. While you can learn a lot about yourself in time spent alone examining things, its better to really never leave the structure of marriage.

  16. @Anon: There is no changing an alcohlic who is in denial. Most of the regulars have heard enough of my sad, little tale and, frankly, I’m tired of telling it. Sometimes I like to share things so others can learn from my mistakes, but I am still learning not to fall into the trap of justification.

  17. On the whole, Single Mothers are without a doubt THE most irresponsible and unaccountable women on the sexual market place. After having a couple of trysts with these individuals, I would recommend never going beyond a “fuck-n-chuck” mentality. I don’t care how good the pussy is. The fact that the female is in that situation has to make a man question her judgment. It should be an automatic response. As a side not, Men who engage in The Crimson Art form are irresistible to most SMs. They eat tight, quality Game up. Every. Single. Time. I use them for practice, instead some sort of White Knight investment.

    But remember Gentlemen: An LTR with a single mom is rife with problems.

  18. Rollo when I read this post my reaction when I got done was

    Not trying to turn this into a race issue, but SM are everywhere in my town. It’s annoying I hear the same story from them over and over again

    “I was good to him (baby daddy or daddies)but he treated me like shit, if you my man solo I’ll cook for you, clean blah blah blah”

    Of course all I have to do is put up with Ray-ray jr, Jamel, and Lil Tay-Tay all whom got different baby daddies, who are all deadbeat dad’s who aren’t doing squad to support their kids.

    Er thanks but no fucking thanks

    The guys that get with these chicks, typically are low-lives, who are scrubs aka wanna be thugs. They get a nice warm house paid for by section 8, free food courtsey of my hard working tax dollars (food stamps) and they don’t have to work and get ass (which has been around the block and the highway and back agian)

    The more money I seem to make, the more these women seem to try to come around. I almost played the sucker once or twice. But now SM are strictly FB status. I don’t care how hot she is, how successfull she is. I don’t have kids. It’s got so bad that people wondering if I’m gay. A black guy over the age of 25 with no kids, I’m an anomaly

    The sad part is, when did it become cool to be a single mother? I remember relatives talking about when a chick got knocked up she would be send away. and I have no beef with divorcee’s or widows. I understand that shit happens. My beef is with the SM who whore around and end up getting knocked up by different dudes and abuse the system.

    It’s not just black women, or to one race.

    Seriosuly unless you are widowed or divorce I don’t give two fucks on why she is single. I loath these women with a passion. They are bottom of the barrell. These are the women men are chasing on pof and other crappy online dating sites.

    IMO single mothers should be happy with a “beta” they don’t deserve a top dude they made their bed now lie in it….and sleep

    Good night sweet prince, no tears now!

  19. You know its a different dynamic with divorced guys. I have watched some guys that got divorced and the women start out saying how appealing it is that the divorced guys have kids.

    And being with the kids so they can’t be with the girls at certain times creates a default “push” that seems to draw the women in for a while

    But then there is the shift when they’ve seen someone for a period of time and then the woman resents the whole thing and starts pushing for both total inclusion and also starts interfering with the relationship between the fathers and their kids. And the women will spin all sorts of rationals for it all.

    When you think about women wanting to obtain as many resources as they can out of men the divorced father signals capacity as a provider, but the children represent a threat to the resources available to the woman and her children.

    There’s a reason all the old stories tell of wicked step mothers.

    It really is fascinating to watch it play out over and over.

  20. @geishakate: that’s what I said these women are not good prospects simply because the quality of intimacy may not be worth it. Again I do not discount the case of the unlucky divorcee /widow but then time may not be the perfect medicine. It may heal but does it cure? Even for single women it is essential for a man to try to estimate the level of bonding she offers. If you plan to be serious that is. Also if a man is somewhat accomplished and even moderately confident why shouldn’t he look for a low baggage low partner count woman? . Be aware of one’s SMV I say.

  21. Hypothetical: Imagine you meet a fairly attractive woman in her early to mid 30’s. She’s a widow, no children, married early so no real suspicions of her getting around in her past, comes from a moderately conservative family, respects men and believes in traditional gender roles. Though her husband’s death is still a lingering issue for her, she tells you she’s looking to finally move on with her life and start dating again.

    On your first date she reveals she is the widow of Pat Tillman.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

    Do you continue to date her?

  22. You know honestly the whole Roissy mentality is starting to get overplayed. It’s as if the entirety of both gender bloggers is in complete denial of the evolved programming and physiological stimuli that prompt us to lust, copulate, pair-bond and then move on (physically or mentally) after 3-7 years. Instead we must wrap it in ad-hoc judgements and rationalizations such as the author’s Bad Boys vs Beta’s take.

    Women are hard wired to seek out high risk/reward, achievement oriented men to have offspring with – as they should. They possess a world view that compliments this strategy. From an Evolutionary perspective this is a successful strategy, and the PM’r appears to have followed the script nicely.

    Men are hard wired to seek multiple chaste, feminine, fit virgins to have offspring with – as they should. It appears her ex has followed this script nicely as well. From and Evolutionary perspective this is a successful strategy.

    Both gender’s biology will cause them to lose sexual interest after 3-7 years. From and Evolutionary perspective this of little consequence.

    Rollo, if you’re implying her “indiscretions” “infidelity” and “mistakes” would have been alleviated by seeking a Beta to settle down and have kids with you are arguing with millions of years of empirical reproductive refinement. In other words you to be in denial as much as she does. It is survival of the fittest that prevails and Beta’s are at the end of that line.

    Perhaps her frustration lie in her inability to contend with the reality of the hard wired male mating strategy. She needs to frame it as wrong (cheating and ‘abuse’ ) because this better suits her hard-wired female mating strategy which, coincidentally, is considered socially more appropriate. I posit better advice would be for would be to for her to deal with the realities and ramifications of human pair bonding and mating. While men (of the Alpha, Bad Boy flavor if you wish) are rewarded by a strategy of sex with multiple females they, none-the-less are inclined (to a degree) to provide physically and emotionally for the mother of their children. Heresy, I know. Her best bet at contentment may be to make amends with the father of her children whom she has shared an intimate connection with – that is if she hasn’t already alienated him via the battle axe of family court. It likely will not come in the form of abandoning his hard wired mating strategy in favor of hers. She may be socially conditioned to hold out for a fem-centric ultimatum of exclusivity. If so cheap romps, abandonment and lonely nights may be all that await her. But the idea of a lasting fulfillment with a man other than her children’s father is likely a frustrating, low odds gambit.

    It’s best to play ~with~ nature rather than against her because nature doesn’t give a shit if your’re happy.

  23. @rollo: nice example. Alpha Widows……. Damn. What normal chump can amog that guy. So my question stands. What would be the level of intimacy a guy could hope in this case……I know I would not be appreciated for being there. Definitely not in the long run. Even if I were its no buffer against hyper gamy, so genuine desire takes a hit.
    Conclusion : Bang and bye bye.

  24. MNL wrote:

    But in brief, the star of this season appears to be a MILF and “hero” single mom with her bad boy spawn in tow. (Am I wrong? Do we know a more sanitized version of the kid’s existence?).

    From what I understand, she is a widow. Her husband was a race-car driver who died in a plane crash, when she was pregnant with that “kid’s existence.”

    This is the problem with game-colored glasses. The confirmation bias not only guarantees an unrealistic approach to tricky intersexual circumstances, it also encourages a kind of tastelessness for which men who weren’t frat-recruit rejects have neither the time or patience.

    Matt

  25. The phenomenon of single motherhood being popular and revered is troubling to me, too.

    Recently, I’ve seen two women take this route willingly. One a long time friend and one my sister in-law. Both are educated and were women I had respect for at one point.

    My friend is approaching to 40, labels herself as bisexual and was in a committed lesbian relationship. Her partner wanted to raise a child with her. The partner is good woman and would have been a great caregiver. My friend decided that she didn’t want to be with her partner any more and they split up. My friend ended up getting pregnant with a guy that she works with who is not married and has two or three kids from two women. Now he and his son live with my friend and her new baby. They have not married.

    The other is my sister-in-law. She is young, just out of university and was living in south america. She started talking about wanting to have a baby and had sex with two guys within a week neither of which is good as a father. One is a beta that she despises. The other is an alpha with four kids from two or three different women. Best guess from the timing of the pregnancy is that the alpha is the father. She left south america, is in the states now and just gave birth.

    What strikes me as insane about both of these cases is that both women had an overriding urge to get pregnant and have a baby. An urge that was so strong that they decided to bring a child into lives that did not include a solid father figure or a solid provider. I would say it is very likely that my friend’s baby daddy will not stick around for the long term and my sister-in-law doesn’t even have any plans to have the child know it’s father much less get the paternity test to prove which guy it is.

    I find it incredibly disturbing that our society supports and normalizes the decisions of these women. At least my friend has had good jobs and will likely be able to support herself. My sister-in-law is another story and though she talks about working, she never made much money and I’m sure that she and the baby are on welfare and had state supported medical care.

    Disturbing.

  26. @Willy, I cosign 100% with you on the evolutionary mechanics of it. It is one sexual strategy vs. another, but in a social context, one of those strategies is the dominant one defining the rules for the other.

  27. @Coy: ” Also if a man is somewhat accomplished and even moderately confident why shouldn’t he look for a low baggage low partner count woman?”

    He should. Hey, that’s the way the cookie crumbles. When I was young I wouldn’t have looked at someone with a child. I understand. Now its slightly different. Its kind of nice to talk with other parents and exchange advice.

  28. @ Rollo: “but in a social context, one of those strategies is the dominant one defining the rules for the other.”

    Precisely. She’s appears to be following the Fem-centric imperative of female choice, and sexual exclusivity, which, as a fertile unencumbered female, she could demand. NOW, with kids in tow, her value has dropped considerably in the eyes of available men making her former strategy much less viable or likely.

    Her options at this point may be spinsterhood with cheap empty thrills, a low quality man with few options, or availing herself to the latent emotional attachment that comes from raising a man’s children. She appears to detect a change in her SMP value but is using the now obsolete high-value strategy. Her ancestral sisters, sans the plethora of social safety nets, knew exactly with whom to align and sustain a bond with – the Father. Secondary options were a last resort often detrimental to her children, if an option at all.

  29. How is this analysis of the 29yo reformed slut helpful to her? A well-sourced and wordy (and even justifiable) way of saying she is SOL is still just an advanced form of “I told you so,” or Nelson from The Simpsons pointing and saying, “Ha-ha.”

    Just because she is living proof of the righteousness of game doesn’t mean she is beyond redemption or cannot achieve a quantum of solace here in the aftermath of the sexual revolution.

    Women like her need better advice so that they don’t pass their disease down to their daughters. They need to see that their “proactive cuckold” beta settlement is not in fact representative of “the highest regard of manhood,” thus setting the stage for a repeat in her offspring. If mom got away with it, why shouldn’t daughter?

    You base your judgment of actual people entirely too much on the mythology of the “bio-evolutionary jackpot.” The casino has been looted. There is no more jackpot. For anybody.

    The short-sighted advice to grab what trinkets you can in the uproar is advice for white trash and dysgenic ghetto champions like (the literal) Philander Rodman. These relationships you are creating/encouraging are not isolated from the culture, and in aggregate they contribute more shit to an overflowing cess pool.

    What your correspondent needs to know is that there are certain inescapable consequences to her choices as a young woman, and you are all very good about emphasizing those. But she also needs to avoid the despair of cuckold encouragement. Such low-rent behavior is not just bad for civilization, it is bad in itself. It silently cheapens her, it undignifies him. So beyond her rightful comeuppance, she must be made aware that there are new ways of living that can redeem herself and her daughters from living out the consequences of her self-made hell.

    Forget the illusory benefits of settling for beta (a separate discussion in itself, and one the 29yo correspondent must have). For every beta who falls into that honey trap there is one less alpha in the world. You rising betas who take your cue from websites think this means more pussy for you, but guess what? Alpha males want a world populated with alpha males. They are not deterred by competition, they welcome it as a method of improvement and an opportunity for challenge. If you, an able bodied man, get a gold medal in the Special Olympics, what does that prove? It proves you Went For The Gold, sure, but you won by beating retards. This is why mentors like Rollo do not hesitate to give you solid advice about how to break free from betatude.

    The female settler who is tempted by the “countlessly reinforced social conventions” of “The Independent Woman®” culture must be given the means to escape those lies just as surely as the omega males and beta males must be given their own. That means stowing away petty resentments and fantasies of payback against former 8’s and 9’s making their final approach to the wall. That means giving women solid advice on how to navigate the dystopia so that another generation (or even we) might find our way out of the ruins. That means teaching old women how to be feminine again because they cannot be young again.

    A 32-year-old cannot be as tight as a 22-year-old, but she can go a long way to making herself attractive to the alphas who do not define their manhood around quantitative measures of vaginal friction. She can be more deferential to true manliness. Once she becomes aware of her rapidly deteriorating position (as you all so gleefully point out to her), she can dedicate herself to the feminine arts in a way her skanky feminist mother never demanded her to inhabit. And this encourages men to revisit the vestigial alphatude dormant in every beta male. Settling encourages the opposite, for them to retreat into their “mancaves” and to jack off until the inevitable divorce appears.

    No gameworks will be relevant for long without bringing women on board. The natural resentment that keeps our sex from pursuing this necessity is not alpha at all. So few understand how anomalous our era is, all things considered. So few realize how nature forcibly corrects imbalances by definition.

    Petty vengeance trends toward the nerdish omega. Which is why most of this will fall on deaf ears. The audience for game sites are nerds and former nerds who cannot overcome the scars of their childhood (or maybe even from a week ago, before they swallowed red). They are fueled by the thought of comeuppance rather than the possibility of win-win. Alphas are larger than this. They are magnanimous enough and contain a surplus of strength enough to sweep everyone up into their victory. Even those whom the culture has made into our enemies. They are not our enemies. They are our mothers, our sisters, our daughters, and the ladies worthy of bearing our children.

    Matt

  30. Matt, those are beautiful thoughts.
    (we’re still gonna draw-and-quarter the architects, though…right?)

  31. It’s as if the entirety of both gender bloggers is in complete denial of the evolved programming and physiological stimuli that prompt us to lust, copulate, pair-bond and then move on (physically or mentally) after 3-7 years.

    Hey, Wet Willy, we’re not all half-apes still frolicking on the veldt with a life-expectancy of 25.

    The founders of civilization were not “in denial.” They wanted more out of life than the “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” You think we can have all of the good consequences of savagery with none of the bad. That makes you much more than just naïve. That makes you a philosophical cousin of the feminist.

    Who was the father of game who first imported evo-psych into the discipline? Oh, the stupidity! Oh, the damage to an otherwise tight modus vivendi! The repeaters of the repeaters of the repeaters are now lousy with these just-so fairy tales of what “evolution” “demands.” This question begging has reached the masses, and every “Wet Willy” fancies himself an anthropologist and interpreter of the dregs at the bottom of Darwin’s tea cup. If only there were a way to forcibly rouse them from their dogmatic slumber, because reasoned argument has no chance.

    Matt

  32. re Matt’s 4:13 post: Awesome. The conversation needs to ultimately turn to solutions.

  33. “First, they need to understand where they’re at and how they got to be who they are now. They’ve hit the Wall by default.”

    This is true.

    Good post Rollo

  34. Matt, Kate, I am really starting to like both of your comments in general. In specific, what solutions would you propose to the PM’er?

  35. @ King. A

    Matt I hear you on this:

    ” That means stowing away petty resentments and fantasies of payback against former 8′s and 9′s making their final approach to the wall.”

    When I first started reading the manosphere and internalizing all this stuff. There was this smug satisfaction I had when interacting with girls. It was this realization that one day that their SMV would decline and mine would rise (all things equal) and I would be vindicated.

    That girl who rejected me in high-school? My ex-gf who broke up with me because I acted beta? The girl who flaked on me last week even though we were supposed to meet up for drinks? The stings of rejection were blunted by the fact that I, ImmoralGables would one day have his comeuppance.

    But something started to change. I’m not sure if it’s your writings or me maturing and becoming a little “deeper” but the taste of revenge doesn’t seem like it’ll taste so sweet. And this isn’t from the POV of one of the “omega nerds” but you may as well lump me in their camp had I not realized the pettiness of holding onto petty resentments.

    I’m not even there all the way yet sitting magnanimously upon his perch like some grand alpha figure would but I’m starting to get the gist of what you’ve been saying these past few months. Does a lion swipe it’s paw at a mouse? Same line of thinking. Higher-level shit I’m starting to grasp but for sure I am not quite there yet.

    And yes, deep down my my heart still flickers with glee when I read posts like Rollo’s “The Wall” and realize that in some form or another I will be redeemed; but who really benefits from that redemption? My ego? I’m starting to feel like there is higher-order shit I’d like to be concerned with when my SMV surpasses the women who have spurned me in the past.

    That is not to say I don’t value what I read and I still am improving myself and honing my game until I get where I want to. And that is not to say that I’ll be too worldly to be chasing after poon and all the trappings of that. No.

    Excuse the ramble, but reading this post, the comments, and some of that vitriol I’ve noticed in other bloggers/commenters writings regarding the day they can say “HaHa” a la Nelson has started to make me wonder if I want to be bitter like that.

    Again, does a lion swipe it’s paw at a mouse?

    -I.G.

  36. Here’s some advice for Rollo’s 29 YO correspondent. I know most won’t agree, but it will give this woman her best shot at at least a little satisfaction.

    1. No f**kbuddies. No revolving door of boyfriends. That’s what got you to where you are now.

    2. Get a head to toe physical exam. Get any medical issues and/or chronic diseases or infections identified and dealt with.

    3. Accept that you might remain single and celibate for the rest of your life. Just accept that now. You have probably severely damaged or destroyed your ability to pair bond with one man as well as your ability to muster up attraction to the caliber of man who will be willing to date you now with your tangible and intangible encumbrances.

    4. The caliber of men available to date and have sex with you now is nowhere near the douchebag cad or alpha player who used to have sex with you. You are little more than pump & dump fodder for cads and players. Disabuse yourself right now of the fantasy that any alpha player will consider you for anything other than hit it & quit it.

    5. Leave behind every vestige of your former life. Ditch your old friends, your social media pages and your Louis Vuitton handbags. Confess your sexual sins to one other person. Tell that person everything you did, every person you did it with. Then resolve not to live that life again. Then don’t date for a year while you reorder your life and get yourself deprogrammed and detoxified from the utter shit the culture fed you.

    6. Don’t settle for any man with whom you haven’t fallen head over heels in love with. But, accept that such a man might never come into your life.

  37. @Matt King “Hey, Wet Willy, we’re not all half-apes still frolicking on the veldt with a life-expectancy of 25.”

    >>Actually Human DNA is ~96% similar to Chimps. The chemical markers associated with lust, love and attachment and their inevitable waning in pair bonds is well documented. But you’re right we’re not half-apes.

    Matt: “The founders of civilization were not “in denial.” They wanted more out of life than the “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” You think we can have all of the good consequences of savagery with none of the bad. That makes you much more than just naïve. That makes you a philosophical cousin of the feminist.”

    >> And yet the stimuli remains despite these elusive ‘founders’ want. Who exactly are these founders, how do you know what they “want” and how is this relevant to anything discussed?? Telling.

    Matt: “Who was the father of game who first imported evo-psych into the discipline? ”

    >> Game….as in Pick-up artistry?? No wonder you’re confused. Regarding Evolutionary influences on modern mating and pair bonding I’d recommend your nearest university. Although caution, it may provide additional weak links in your “tight modus vivendi”, lmao.

    A quick primer:
    http://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/for-better-or-worse-how-we-pick-our-partners

  38. @King A (Matthew King)

    A big THANK YOU for the clarification on the origins of the Bachelorette’s kid. I have a tad more empathy for her predicament.

  39. @WetWilly: it might help you to know that “King A (Matthew King)” is a wild-eyed, bible-thumping, scripture-quoting maniac whose entire schtick on sites like these revolves around snark, insult, and wildly unrealistic proposals for reforming the world, one beta — or one single mom — at a time.

    In other words, you can safely disregard his drivel.

  40. “Hypothetical: Imagine you meet a fairly attractive woman in her early to mid 30′s. She’s a widow, no children, married early so no real suspicions of her getting around in her past, comes from a moderately conservative family, respects men and believes in traditional gender roles. Though her husband’s death is still a lingering issue for her, she tells you she’s looking to finally move on with her life and start dating again.

    On your first date she reveals she is the widow of Pat Tillman.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

    Do you continue to date her?”

    Rollo – interesting question for me on many levels. In this situation, I believe the man will have the utmost respect for her and not be questioning poor prior decisions if she were a typical single mom. So to answer your question, I think yes if you are a true Alpha. I met her current husband (Joe) at a dinner and he oozes Alpha (not an ass kicker like Pat but athletic, good looking, and successful financial professional). Also, he had kids from a prior marriage (3 i think) so it made sense for him to get hitched, in the sense it makes his life easier/better with a traditional gender roles partner raising so many children.

    Also, my own mother lost her first husband in Vietnam and it didnt bother my Dad, though admittedly he is more white knight than alpha (even accounting for his own Vietnam service in the 1st Air Cav).

  41. “Sexual Freedom” is where feminism fucked up. Once Women were no longer being shamed by society for whoring around it became our cultural norm and accepted. Single Motherhood is just a byproduct of it all…

  42. @Tertullian Ahh….now it makes sense. Maybe I should have framed it in terms of naked ladies and talking snakes.

  43. @koevoet: I would suggest an online dating site like chemistry.com that is geared towards people looking for relationships. It is very easy on that site to filter for what you are looking for. Its the more mature sister company of match.com. There is a lengthy personality test to take that helps match you with compatible people. You are put into four categories: builder, negotiator, explorer, and director (this last one is what we would call alpha). It used to have a genius construction that only allowed you to get to know each other gradually based on mutual interest. It was like a protective father. Now, it is more similar to match in that you can outright message anyone you get matched with. The big difference is the basis for the matches they send you and the fact that if you want to be more discrete about your online presence, it is a non-searchable site. It seems to be geared towards more educated and mature participants.

  44. Add another +1 on deti’s list.

    From a young age well into adulthood, I have witnessed several female relatives divorce, some multiple times, always initiated by them, and always blaming the other party. There is no hamster rationalization that surprises me anymore. None.

    Now, whenever I am subjected to a divorcer (99% female) who one-sidedly blames the other party (again, 99% female), I nod until my patience runs out, which isn’t long, and then ask:

    “So, are you bad at managing relationships, or just a poor judge of character?”

  45. Excellent article! You’ve answered so many unasked questions in my head as to why I broke off a seven year relationship with a single mother. Despite loving her very much I just couldn’t marry her because she had kids (she even only had partial custody during summers) but I couldn’t explain why. I now have me a single, decent woman but, still plagued by a serious case of oneitis for my single mama!

  46. “By seeking a Beta to settle down and have kids with you are arguing with millions of years of empirical reproductive refinement.”

    Speaking to elderly women from Eastern Europe, i gleened that betas in the past were the equivalent of today’s alphas, there was no state sponsored fall back option and if you had children with a bad boy you lived in starvation and poverty.

    Deti you underestimate the number, willingness and desperation of AFCs, my stand up good guy work colleague married a woman with four children. If a single mother divorces before she hits the wall and stays in shape she is almost guaranteed to find an AFCS that is willing to be a cuckhold and do the yeoman’s work.

  47. Matt: “The founders of civilization were not “in denial.” They wanted more out of life than the “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” You think we can have all of the good consequences of savagery with none of the bad. That makes you much more than just naïve. That makes you a philosophical cousin of the feminist.”

    >> And yet the stimuli remains despite these elusive ‘founders’ want. Who exactly are these founders, how do you know what they “want” and how is this relevant to anything discussed?? Telling.

    Wet Willy, I just don’t get where you are coming from. This site in particular, and many manosphere sites in general, already point out that males and females have different, base instincts. Nobody here argues that that isn’t the case. But the point is, as humans, we have the ability to go beyond these base instincts and do things that are unnatural: we do it all the time. Is a fundamental understanding of these drives useful, if not indispensible? Certainly. Does that mean we can do no better than to be driven by our instincts? Not at all.

    You seem to imply that we are still no better than apes, when that is clearly not the case. The problem now is not that our instincts have suddenly “cropped up” when they had left us alone for many productive generations, but that there is an absence of sanctions against behaving according to such instincts.

    It is certainly of value for the woman in the post to be aware of her tendencies – that doesn’t mean she should just say, “well, those are my instincts, I have no self control so I may as well just live with it!” It means she should be aware of those inclinations so she can squash them when they appear, and nurture her better instincts instead.

  48. “King A (Matthew King)” is a wild-eyed, bible-thumping, scripture-quoting maniac whose entire schtick on sites like these revolves around snark, insult, and wildly unrealistic proposals for reforming the world, one beta — or one single mom — at a time.”

    And although he occasionally comes up with a good line or even a few sentences of insight, you stand no chance to engage him logically on any point.

    And although he is pointless for discussion, it’s fun to see you play with him.

  49. i gleened that betas in the past were the equivalent of today’s alphas, there was no state sponsored fall back option and if you had children with a bad boy you lived in starvation and poverty.

    So in the past bad boys were poor, and betas had stable income?

    I’m not sure it really worked like that. In fact the aristocracy rose out of those very bad boys – the thugs who took over towns by the tip of their swords.

  50. It means she should be aware of those inclinations so she can squash them when they appear, and nurture her better instincts instead.

    To what end? So that she can be “good”?

    A lot of us were brought up to think with our gut, and to listen to that gut to know what is truly right and wrong. The problem is that the gut is also a product of evolution. What is right is always right because it has given someone advantage. Right and wrong are the products of evolution. For those who lack wit enough to be Machiavelian, they can rely on their instincts of right and wrong in order to curry personal advantage.

    Morals are what we use to stop others from gaining advantage over us. They are what we use to gain advantage over others.

    I agree with you that we can use our higher faculties over our base instincts. And morality is a base instinct, not a higher faculty.

    The trick then becomes to know what you want. Apparently evolution wants babies that reproduce better than other babies. Apparently our sex drives and emotions ARE hard coded – and not subject to our higher faculties. We can over-ride them, but we can’t re-program them.

    So are we to admit that what we want is what our programming wants? Or just shoot for some different end?

    What end are you shooting for?

    I don’t agree that we can ever have a monolithic social agreement about what is good. We will always have competing interests. The cad and the dad strategy are just two different ways – with one more reliant on morals as a strategy to get their way. It’s not in any way “higher”.

  51. @ johnycomelately:

    “Deti you underestimate the number, willingness and desperation of AFCs, my stand up good guy work colleague married a woman with four children. If a single mother divorces before she hits the wall and stays in shape she is almost guaranteed to find an AFCS that is willing to be a cuckhold and do the yeoman’s work.”

    I suspect you’re right, and a hot single mom can find an AFC. But if you make a dent in the number of men willing to reject single moms (even hot ones willing to spread their legs for an AFC to access his bank account), then more and more unworthy women will be deprived of worthy men. And that can’t hurt.

    I believe it will simply take around 10 to 20 percent of men willing to refuse to marry to send it to a tipping point.

  52. Veering off a bit – but still in the ballpark…

    What about single dads?

    Interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on the SMV/LTR impact of being a single father, since I am one. In my post divorce experience so far it has come up a time or two but not at all to the degree that I expected. It seems thus far, in my personal interactions, that a lot of women seem not to care.

    Or at least they seem not to care to the degree that men do in terms of aversion to dating someone with “priors.” Obviously divorced women with kids don’t care that I am divorced and have kids, but single, never-married women don’t seem to have a big beef with it to the degree that I would have expected. Or it could just be surface acting. Time will tell.

    I have had one woman reject me after some interaction and she explicitly stated it was because I have kids, but that wasn’t the real reason. The real reason was 99.999% probability that she just wasn’t into me, which is fine, and my single dad status was a polite enough reason to excuse herself. Another version of “I have a boyfriend.” No biggie.

    Perhaps many women make the assumption that you do not have custody so they feel that on some level you are mostly unencumbered in terms of your potential to devote time and resources to her and any new children. Or, perhaps because I have an abundance of resources they decide that there is enough to go around.

    It is interesting to be dating under these circumstances as opposed to when I was in my twenties. In my twenties I had no “baggage” but lacked resources. Now I have “baggage” but I have resources.

    It leads me to think that perhaps in my twenties women were more inclined to be with me because of my awesome personality, raw sexuality and boyish charm (cough, cough) whereas today they are seeing me more as a meal ticket. Though I still have the aforementioned attributes. I often get a gut feel this way when dealing with a divorced woman with kids.

    I avoid women who were never married and who have kids and I always pursue as first choice, women with no children. People I know in real life tell me that I am unrealistic or “wrong” for having this attitude.

    Friends and social acquaintances seem to be inclined to try to force feed me the idea that I “must” pursue women with kids and that I “must” be some kind of sociopath for not preferring to do so given my own “situation.” I don’t pay them any mind.

    In all seriousness, I never had difficulty having girlfriends around (meaning women I was having sex with) post high school, through college days, etc. I was just terrible at picking them in terms of LTR suitability, but that is a story for another day.

    For me, dating today just requires a shift in strategy and expectation on my part as to what I can expect or extract from the women in return for what I expend, none of which involves me feeling butt-hurt about it. Just interesting is all.

    It is especially interesting post red-pill as it makes it so much easier to spot the ones purely interested in resource acquisition a mile off. It makes me laugh inside when I interact with them.

    Not in a vengeful way at all, but it’s just funny to me. I listen to the words she says, I see her behaviors and attempts to woo and win me, and it’s like watching a play where you’ve read the script a dozen times over.

    I don’t blame her though, because I completely understand the rationale behind her motivations. I don’t attribute malice to her intentions. It’s merely survival instinct. Each and every one of us is always trying to get the best deal we can, in whatever situation we are involved in at any given moment.

    I just keep clear emotionally of those ones because I know the score well in advance. I admit that it used to make me angry early on, post divorce, but it doesn’t anymore at all. Their motivations are what they are, and mine are mine and if we cross paths and a deal is struck where we exchange something of value that the other wants, it’s just a deal like any other.

    Thoughts?

  53. @peoplegrowing: “Wet Willy, I just don’t get where you are coming from. This site in particular, and many manosphere sites in general, already point out that males and females have different, base instincts. Nobody here argues that that isn’t the case. But the point is, as humans, we have the ability to go beyond these base instincts and do things that are unnatural: we do it all the time.”

    My comments regarding “base instincts” were not directed to the site in general, it was a rebuttal to Matt who scoffed at the idea that innate stimuli should be a consideration and furthermore he associated them with being “half-ape” suggesting they are nonsense to consider. I would guess he is threatened by the notion of innate instincts honed by Evolutionary forces, thus his childish swipes.

    I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. We can, and often do, act with our higher brain, I did note that innate mating/bonding impulses are there because they have proven record of success. Recall from my first comment that one alternative overlooked by Rollo was to make amends with the Father. I note that this alternative would have an advantage due to the natural tendency for Fathers to care for their the children’s Mother as well as reducing conflict. It is another option, worth mentioning, with certain things going for it. Certainly not the only one though. That’s really where my point starts and stops.

  54. So funny, 2-3 girls post on these stories, and half the comments here are guys placating to them. Ironic.

  55. Before I read the rest of the article or others comments, I want to say that this woman sounds word for word like someone I got to know “intimately” as she so desires about 9 months ago. When I met her I was exclusively with a girl, but that didn’t stop me from going out and meeting new people. I met this single mother Indepdentish Women with her at the time “boyfriend” in a bar (during the afternoon – double red flag: bar + drinking early + it being that specific bar). She stood out like an angel amongst demons (and in that dive, she may as well have been, her rainbow personality emanating a light only Lucifer himself may dawn on one). I was particularly social that day, and despite her boyfriend appearing at first to be “hard” I immediately made my presence known amongst them. Essentially I wanted to know who this woman was, as at first site she could be either 33 or 23, depending on the angle or the light, and had a peculiar attractiveness I liken to those rare women who no man can deny yet no man would ever consider truly pursuing. The reason for the former & the latter became apparent as I got to know her more.

    That first day, within minutes of talking to her, it was clear – in her own words – she just wanted a real Man. I looked at her boyfriend, and said, “What are you doing with this guy?” semi-sarcastically. We played pool. I won. Before I know it we’re in my car going to their house. Soon to find out it’s one of many houses she frequents/frequented. After getting to know this collective of individuals and observing/admiring the freedom of this (what I thought then extremely drunk, but found out through time, extremely psychotic – bordering schizophrenic & cluster B) I thought I’d had a few months of strange adventures ahead of me. And I was right in ways I’d never imagined. Not knowing Game yet, I learned Game that day I met them. I got her to break up with him that evening, with her essentially believing I wanted to be with her. She didn’t technically break up with him until two days later, after she’d pursued me to the point of inviting me over to her apartment alone as well as insisting she come over and help me unpack mine. Through a series of intruding visitors (salesmen, classmates, neighbors) her attempts at seducing me were blindsided, and however little I had invested in her in that way, it was obvious to me she wanted/expected/craved sexual treatment, and confusing for her that a.) I didn’t jump her bones, b.) the timing wasn’t working out.

    I had to explain to her boyfriend that she didn’t cheat on him with me (though everything pointed to it – her breaking up with him and suddenly spending time with me the next day, furthermore apparently telling him that he wasn’t a real man like me before she left). I felt like a man after seeing him in tears and being told that, sorry kid. He of course didn’t believe me, but I wouldn’t have either, considering the more I got to know about her. I can’t believe this guy was with her for a little over a month.

    Within a few weeks – I hadn’t even spent more than two or three brief evenings with her, mainly when it was convenient for me, and had by no means shown her any reason to think of me as more than a passerby who had an interesting evening with her, her ex, their Shaman friend who believed he was in contact with Papa Legba, and furthermore that I was during that time a manifestation of Eshu, bringing him in person the message he was told in dream would arrive (which however insane, was convincing enough, coming from this 48 year old man, who listend to my advice like it was G-d speaking to him directly, regarding his own recently collapsed marriage, his children, his house-mates, including the ex-bf of this single mother).

    What I’m getting at is that however insane this woman was. She had a 11 year old kid. I met him. I also met her father one night. It was very clear to me that she was looking for men to be a father to her son without being a boyfriend to her, but being a best-friend as needed & sex partner. Before she was married she was a virgin. She got married when she was in her early-early twenties to an older man. She claims it’s because she wanted to have a child, and at the time she had a disease that would render her buried and dead within a five year period (why the hell would you give birth to someone, get married, and start a family if you KNEW you were going to die?!? Talk about selfish); but by fate, she was donated a pacemaker or one of those heart-pumps – the feeling of it beating inside of her is surreal, a steady THUMPAHpauseTHUMPAHpauseTHUMP. And thus survived to be the mother of her child and wife to her husband. This of course went against her plans. She then decided her husband wasn’t sexually compatible with her, or that he had cheated on her (once she withheld sex from him). So she went out and gave blow jobs to as many guys as she could find. Then the divorce, of course, and the custody battle.

    That was probably 5 years ago. Her son was clearly off. Clearly because she had a new Daddy every week on average. Each Daddy she brought in could teach them something new, like I taught him how to tune his guitar. Or another older man would help with the “plumbing”. Or another would bring the “medicine” (weed). ETc…

    And even though she had a nice apartment all paid for (by her ex-husband, also receiving child support, she got checks from the government for who knows what, and managed to have her own harem of what seemed to be increasingly fucked up and retarded men as I would meet them or see them in passing. Her ex boyfriend lasted a month with her, he was crying and bawling when I saw him last, he wanted to HELP her, to save her from her life.

    I didn’t want shit from her nor to give her anything. She sensed that in me. I didn’t even respond to her advances, nor make any on her. I sensed that I was the first man who had, in some time, not viewed her as either girlfriend material, wife-partner-save-her material, or even fuck-buddy material. She could tell I was just curious about who the fuck she was, and how she got to that point.

    She revealed to me eventually that she’s had 150+ partners.

    From Virgin to Whore literally overnight. Her marriage lasting as long as she thought she was going to die, but then of course family and her husband for the sake of the child wanted her to live, and somehow produced that miracle of a replacement heart.

    My point is, even the craziest, most selfish, insane, bizarre, girls who clearly are lost in little girl in need of daddy land while battling schizoid tendencies, drug addictions, raising kids, satisfying their nympho desires, even these women who don’t appear normal, desire and want exactly what this Independent Woman wants.

    I’m pretty sure it wasn’t always like that. I’m pretty sure that it used to be the crazy whores who’ve been in Orgies and say things like, quote: “One guy I was with got off to gore & murder, I learned to enjoy it, I really like finding out what the sickest fantasy a guy has (or group of guys) and satisfying it for them; what’s your desire, what do YOU want to do, I can and will do it,” and I believed her.

    I learned all of this through hanging out with her a grand total of 7 times. Including the day I met her. Mind you this was spread out over a six month period, and only once was it initiated by me, as I left my instrument at her ex-bfs place and needed his number to retrieve it. If anything I ended up playing her for booze 4 times we hung out, knowing she thought I’d sleep with her if she got me drunk. But my tolerance was far beyond hers so I got to enjoy free wine and hear her attempts at impressing me, at first she tried with her being sexually free, then as she realized I was more impressed with women who managed their lives in a less Whore of Babylon way, she attempted to show me she was pure, she had quit smoking weed, she was spending time with her son more often, etc..

    Four months after meeting her and one night of heavy drinking with some buddies, 20 hours after one of the many break-ups with my last exBPDgfs, I received texts out of nowhere from this woman. She was naked in them. And she looked better without clothes than she did with them on. Which was a surprise to me, considering her. She went from a 6 in my eyes to a 10 (alcohol influenced, of course), but in order to gauge my goggle’s perception I asked strangers there thoughts on the chick, and they averaged about 8.5.

    Two hours later (and this is probably a few weeks into me reading about Game, thus responding how I considered appropriately to her final extreme come-on), I managed to help a friend lose his virginity and indulge in an Eiffel Tower with this woman. Regrettably, of course, but undeniably that evening I desired it. She was in a way one of the first initiations I had into Game. One week later she had a new boyfriend. I haven’t seen her since, nor have I wanted to. My friend has been scared to talk to me. I’ve been tested for STD’s.

    What baffles me is this woman falls on the farthest extreme of all things considerd crazy about women, yet harbors the same perspectives regarding her decisions and the men she’s with as EVERY woman I have met. She just has that “Free Spirit” that enables her to do so with 150+ instead of 15+ partners. How she’s still alive after being pummeled by so much cock, I have no idea.

    If this has nothing to do with what the article is about feel free to delete it. I’ll now go back and read past the Case Study Quote by the Single Mother wanting what she wanted and having qualms with not getting it.

    I look forward to reading this post, as I have always respected your opinion on these topics. Thanks Rollo

  56. @blackbird

    What baffles me is this woman falls on the farthest extreme of all things considerd crazy about women, yet harbors the same perspectives regarding her decisions and the men she’s with as EVERY woman I have met.

    yes, this is what we refer to as the ‘rationalization hamster’. all women have this. it occupies that part of the brain which in a male would normally be responsible for logical and rational thought. evolution, over the eons, rewired the female brain progressively deprecating and finally eliminating the capacity for logic and reasoning as it simply was not necessary. i.e. women can’t think rationally because their brains are not capable of it because they never needed it so it was never used and the circuitry was just taking up space.

    it is believed that the rationalization hamster also contains the subroutines for subspace communications to other members of the female hive mind through which their feelings and ovulation cycles are synchronized.

    She just has that “Free Spirit” that enables her to do so with 150+ instead of 15+ partners.

    yeah, ‘free spirit’ is a slut tell.

  57. The issue is that feminism, in its attempt to “free” women also cut men adrift. Women have been told it is OK to be a single mother and they don’t need men. Men are no longer looked down upon for failing to “be a man” and father their children. As someone who was raised by a single mother (my father died when I was 15) I can say with full experience that the biggest loss is the children’s. I came out the least scarred as the eldest of three and have had plenty to deal with. There is no substitute for a two parent home. Never mind all of the statistics that point to the disadvantage the children are saddle with, though those are truly depressing. Just think Yin and Yang. Without balance there is chaos, and children pay the price.

  58. @Blackbird

    Way to ruin the comment thread haha. At least provide a TL;DR version next time and leave out the mass wall of text.

    We can try to help but looking at your comment made me think blech. Has some woman caused you to lose your mind? Get a grip of yourself man.

  59. @Matt

    Normally you have more interesting things to say, but whether you believe in justice or not actions have consequences, for every action there is a reaction whether you believe in divinity or not, if I touch a torch flame with my bare hands, I will get seared, if not burned outright, so please don´t insult our intelligence with drivel like “most audience of game blogs is made up of ex-nerds lusting for vengeance or something like that. Unfortunately we do not live in our ancestors world, there was a reason why women were not given power in society… and you can only be friends with those who are your friends, currently men and women have opposed reproductive strategies, women´s strategy consists in turning almost all men into cuckolds and men´s strategy is spreading around our genes and sometimes having something special with some of them, in my opinion a lot better and nobler than theirs.

    Justice by definition is very alpha and unlike your pathetic description of magnanimousness real honour consists of treating others as they deserve to be treated, not as they wish to be treated. I’m not advocating revenge, just wise indifference and application of game until morale improves.

    By the way they do not consider men as their fathers, brothers, husbands and sons when they carry out their actions so why do we have to… I only defend and “white knight” women of my close family or lifetime friends

  60. Forget marrying them.

    You know what sucks about Single Mothers / Independent Wimyn?

    Getting stuck with them in the workplace.

    The persecution/martyr complex is palpable. They are usually late, want to leave early, constantly texting baby-sitters, and the worst shirkers in the workplace.

    Yeah, I know not all single mothers are like that; just every one I’ve ever had the misfortune of working with.

  61. I remember a time in the mid 90’s, when I started having a dry spell with proper maidens, that I dipped down into dating a few single mommies. (Looking back, I don’t think I would have ever actually gone through with marrying one – but certainly wanted a vaginal receptacle at the time.) Anyway, there was one chick who like this chick, had 2 toddlers, and at her house, amazingly she had her wedding pictures (which hubby) on the wall. WTF? I probably could have gotten into her golden V, but I just felt like I would have been the biggest beat loser for even dipping it in.

  62. The problem with this MILF shit is that so many men bought into it now they drove up the price of love, sex, and companionship even more!

  63. You people have been huffing your own fumes so long you’ve decided that the experience you’ve had is the limit of possibility. Think about it: Not all second marriages, even of the AFBB variety, are doomed. If the woman is honest with herself (yes, this one hasn’t been so far) or her AFBB hamster is properly calibrated (and doesn’t revert to seeking the thrill of an Alpha affair), it can work out just fine.

    You silly bastards aren’t special, most of you. You’re lucky. Lucky to live in a time when most borderline alphas are socialized into beta behavior, and a culture where most natural alphas manage to get locked up. So your memorized, simulated, scripted fake alpha schtick works.

    Yes, I said simulated. Natural alpha’s have no self-control, can’t be socialized, and are lousy at assessing risk. They’d eat you for lunch, while your favorite girl polished their nob, except that they can’t put together a plan to access the quality tail you’re going after and can’t keep themselves between the lines. They drop out or get expelled from schools, can’t hold jobs, spend large chunks of their prime years in prison, and generally don’t circulate enough to service all the women.

    And the feminists you despise created that world, and train most of the women to avoid the real deal, the ones that are actually dangerous. You’re *mimicking* Alpha, to women who have mostly never experienced it. You bitch about how hard it is to handle an ‘alpha widow’ and wet yourselves at the idea that the actual psycho that made her that way might show up to reclaim his piece of ass.

    Because you know you’re just pretending.

  64. She sounds very rational. She realizes many men would be worried about engaging with her because of her baggage and the assumption she wants a new hubby and father. She doesn’t want that. She simply wants a friend with benefits and she’s honest about it. She also doesn’t want her kids exposed to the guy and that’s a very good sign of a conscientious mother.

    She was married so she’s not a “baby mama”. Her husband eventually cheated on her and abused her so she divorced him. Another example of good parenting skills, keeping her kids away from the philandering and abuse.

    She’s not the type of woman I’m talking about. I see her as an example of what SHOULD happen, not what should not.

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s