Case Study – Wanted: New Daddy

I love Post Secret. Anytime I have humanitarian doubt about hypergamy or the twinges of sentimental wishes for a kinder, gentler, fem-centrism all I have to do is read the current week’s offerings of anonymous ‘secrets’ and, without fail, all doubt fades away to callous certainties. Ahhh, le sigh...

I’ve delved into the single mother cottage industry topic before, but in light of a recent PM and last week’s Wall discussion I thought I’d entertain this comment:

Wow. I have read some very interesting posts. I need some help and since most of you seem to be honest and not out to hurt anyone, here goes…

The Facts: 29, Female, Divorced mom of two toddlers, works full time, working on building self-esteem, being happier. Not seeking permanent relationship; however, not interested in whoring out.

I have met several men I am interested in and we talk and possibly hang out. What I am scared of is them thinking I am daddy shopping. I also don’t want to be left and laid. I am willing to “buddy up” but I do expect a friendship beyond the sex. How do I approach or have a discussion with a man telling him my time is rare, but still communicate my expectations of casual hangouts and fooling around? I am a woman and yes there are nights where he would need to engage with me in mind blowing sex. There may be a bad day at work where I just need a beer buddy. It is difficult for a woman with self respect to blow and go so thats not my intent.

I tried the honest approach, but never heard from him again. I gave it one more shot (different guy) and time will tell. Ive never been in this type of relationship before. I respect myself too much to engage in a one night stand only. Any ideas?

From what I read ut sounds like I am pretty much screwed. Im not single resulting from some kind of feminist movement crap. I like a guy to challenge me etc. I am a single mom because I am divorced from a bad person (cheater, abusive). I don’t seek a relationship because I know the majority of men don’t want the “baggage” of my babies. Additionally, I don’t want to risk hurting my kids. They are first. I am all they have and in a way they are all I have. All I want is an adult. If it progresses to more so be it. If not then that’s cool too. I don’t want to be viewed as just a piece, that is where the honesty comes in.

A lot of what gets offered for women in her position is usually the standard fare about single mommies and how guys perceive them. Baby-daddy issues, scheduling, substitute father interviewing and how single guys are “supposed” to react to them. All of this is valid of course, but after reading her own take of her own situation, I’m not so sure she’s really aware of (or is in denial of) her own conditions.

This woman is a textbook example of what I call Proactive Infidelity. According to her longer account she’d knocked it out with the Bad Boy (abusive, cheater) who was a “challenge” and got her excited. I’m going to do her the favor of assuming both her children were by him and if one is now 4 y.o. this would mean she was at oldest 24 y.o. when she became pregnant. Now that the Bad Boy has proven himself unreliable in sharing parental investment responsibilities, the guy she does end up in an LTR or marriage with necessarily MUST assume the Bad Boy’s responsibilities and liabilities.

New Daddies and Independent Women®

It’s essential to the single-mother rationale that they convince themselves they aren’t shopping for a “new daddy”. The fem-centrism of today’s social structure already has a long and well established framework ready to enable the most predictable of hamster spins. She’s an “Independent Woman®”, she “makes her own damn money” and ‘walks like da boss, talks like da boss,…” etc. The Independent Woman® brand is one of the most versatile social conventions because it covers so many situations. Blanket rationales like epithets of ‘Misogynist’ or ‘Homophobe’ pale in comparison to the usefulness of the Independent Woman®.

The Independent Woman® is unassailable and any contrary deviation from it leads back to the circular argument of patriarchal men’s selfish oppressions – feminism’s favorite trope. She “don’t need a man”, but she needs a Man. The real tragedy is the desperation apparent in the false pride. The truth is she needs a Man, her children need a Man, in spite of the pretentiousness fem-centrism has conditioned into her. But her decisions have left that Daddy position open to the lowest bidder.

The undeniable, unavoidable truth is that whether or not this is a conscious effort on her part, this is what the next guy, usually the Nice Guy, MUST deal with. Mr. Dependable, Mr. Loyal supporter/provider has no other choice but to assume parental investments that were never his. She bred with the Bad Boy and the Nice Guy raises her children. Any woman who can pull this off hits a bio-evolutionary jackpot.

The good news for her is that there are countlessly reinforced social conventions specifically designed with the latent purpose of making such a Nice Guy (essentially a proactive cuckold) think he’s a martyr and held to be in the highest regard of manhood for “looking past” her situation and “loving her for who she is.” Rest assured she’ll eventually attract a beta so conditioned to forgive her past indiscretions (essentially justifying and rewarding them) in exchange for the sexuality he’s been deprived of for so long. Her marginal intimate acceptance will only affirm his AFC beliefs and his “stepping up” to parent her kids will make him tolerable when he’s not as exciting as the Bad Boy was.

Now all that may sound harsh, but it’s important to understand just how tough a road single mothers have to hoe. If laid out in harsh realistic terms, most women don’t willingly want to be saddled with an AFC marriage of convenience, and neither do they want to be locked in with an abusive Bad Boy, so what do they do?

First, they need to understand where they’re at and how they got to be who they are now. They’ve hit the Wall by default.

Own your indiscretions ladies, own your mistakes. Being a single mother, despite the feminized social conventions, doesn’t make you a hero; it makes you a statistic. As I stated originally, any guy that accepts you intimately MUST deal with you as a single mother. This means he MUST accept your schedule, your children’s schedule, their father’s schedule, both family’s schedules, and the emotional fallout from all this. The feminine imperative has taught you to believe you’re entitled to expecting him to want to be with you (even if this is just as a fuck buddy) in preference to a single, childless, generally younger and more sexually available woman. She’s your competition. And in spite of all this he’s expected to still be the Man, by denying his sexual predilections in favor of your circumstances.

Your fundamental acknowledgment and showing a constant genuine appreciation for the sacrifice he makes to accommodate your past is essential to any LTR you have in the future. I’m not saying that your kids shouldn’t be your first priority – they absolutely should – but it is imperative that you know and demonstrably appreciate ANY guy who’d make the concession to still entertain you intimately after knowing this.

A lot of women love to gnash and wail about how they’ve become undateable after they’ve acquired single-mom status. Actually, no. There’s a whole modern world that’s teeming with AFC providers, with Cap’n Save-a-ho Martyr Mentalities just itching to get at the reverent pussy they missed out on for most of their 20’s and are more than willing to follow the feminine meme and convince themselves that single mommies are just victims of the Jerks they knocked out their kids with.

Daddies & Buffers

Understand, single mommies are another form of Buffers. The deductive logic is that they’re ‘easier’ due the their conditions and the risk of rejection lower (particularly when rejection-phobic or in a dry spell), but the potential long term ramifications are never worth the effort incomparisson to childless women. Rejection is better than regret.

The problem with actualizing your fantasy encounter with a MILF is in the ‘M’ part of the acronym – ‘Mother’ – ergo, a single mommie with all of the very “real world” baggage that goes along with that. I’ve tapped my share of older women when I was in my 20s and I can tell you that the sex was no more or less extrordinary than the younger women (at least in terms of performance) I’ve been with. The only major difference? I never had to worry about 22 year old single girls finding a babysitter for a night or had to be concerned with her making too much noise during sex so as not to wake up her son in the next room. Nor was I concerned about it being “her weekend” to have the kids.

It’s very easy to assume single mothers are victims by default – some are, most aren’t. Trust me, a majority of single mothers are single for a reason – and it’s not always because of their Jerk BFs or deadbeat husbands. The common belief is that MILFs encourage an idea that they are more sexually available; you’ve got to ask yourself, why would they be motivted to be more sexual while single than when they we’re married or in an LTR? They become motivated to be sexual and hit the gym when single, but wouldn’t make the same effort when married, why? Because the guy wasn’t worth it OR because she became comfortable, he lost interest, became fed up, and she’s prompted to be more concerned with all that in order to achieve a long term security with another man that necessitates she do so?

Don’t get me wrong, there are attractive women in their 30s & 40s but these are uncommon exceptions to the rule. The social reinforcement of the MILF fantasy is just a modern extension and evolution of the “she’s still got it” social convention with the latent purpose of leveling the playing field for 30-40 something single mothers unable to sexually compete for the same calibre men with 18-28 y.o. women. The harsh truth is that a beautiful, sexually available, single woman in her mid 20’s is at a decided advantage for sexual selection than a single mother entering her 30’s who’s encumbered with all the responsibilities of being a parent. Schedules of Mating issues aside, even when both women are equally attractive and equally sexually available, the childless woman is still at an advantage because she comes with less liabilities and represents a “fresh start” in comparison.

Women’s sexual value naturally declines as they ages – it serves an older woman’s purpose if she can redefine sexuality as her conditions change through life, and convince herself and society that she’s correct and genuine. Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore may epitomize this fantasy, but in reality, there are thousands of women filling gyms across the country for every Demi Moore convinced that they “still got it” while every year a new crop of 22-24 y.o. hotties commands the attention of the same men they’re competing for. This is just the natural extension of the ‘Have It All” lie that women have been sold for the last 50 years. Men only too eagerly buy this convention as well because it facilitates a Buffer for them and (presumedly) presents an easier route to getting laid. Therefore it is also in their interest that the myth and the Buffer be reinforced.

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GeishaKate
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GeishaKate

There is no pride in being a divorced parent. There is only pride in making the best of a bad situation and trying to keep your children from being too adversely affected. Being a divorced parent carries a lot of shame and guilt and leaves your entire reputation open to criticism from anyone, regardless of their faults or how well they would have fared in your situation, as you’re labelled a slut, etc. You become a target for men who want to put MILF on their notchcount as some sort of novelty fuck. “They become motivated to be sexual and… Read more »

Joe
Guest
Joe

>>>Not seeking permanent relationship; however, not interested in whoring out. Translation: looking to act like a slut, but you aren’t allowed to call me one and my hamster is going to rationalize away my behavior as “meeting my non-negotiable needs.” Would I have considered marrying a 29 yr old woman with a couple kids? Possibly, but that’s a remote possibility. She’d have to have been very attractive and very fit – 8+ – warm, and highly supportive of me. It’d still be a tough call, given her track record of horrendous choices. I’d be even less likely to “just hit… Read more »

Team-Red
Guest
Team-Red

Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks. Of course they’re all victims. Now she wants a good man and the Beta that opens his wallet in exchange for sex will always be treated like a second class citizen while her and her kids come first. She was irresponsible in getting pregnant by a man that wasn’t qualified enough to father her children and now has to pay the consequences of her actions. Such Women should be Shamed for their poor decisions by society, not reinforced by labeling them independent and strong willed. The real sad part of it all is that the children… Read more »

MNL
Guest
MNL

Nice post. …And it’s timely. Just last night, I noticed my daughter and a few friends watching the finale to “The Bachelorette.” This season offers up a case study on both male and female psychology on this topic. I confess I don’t know all the twists to the season. I’ve watched a full five minutes of it (and am embarrassed to admit that much). But in brief, the star of this season appears to be a MILF and “hero” single mom with her bad boy spawn in tow. (Am I wrong? Do we know a more sanitized version of the… Read more »

Jon
Guest
Jon

The State should incentivise marrying single mothers /give a divorce get out of liabilities free card – I’d assume the marriage/breakdown risks are at least as high as with first divorces (i.e a lot higher than for first marriages) so there’s a real disincentive on guys to assume the increased liabilities, even assuming they’re as likable as GeishaKate which can’t be a good thing for society.

m
Guest
m

Recently witnessed a “harassment” complaint at work. The “victim” was an overweight, unwed mother who, if cleaned up and in- shape might be able to hit 5. The “perp” was an older beta who wrote her a love letter. His crime basically being that he was “creepy” and not alpha enough to straight up ask her out. Needless to say this land whale shamelessly complained to EVERYONE about her “dilemma.” I couldn’t imagine how a warpig in her state could look a gift-schmuck in the mouth like that until yesterday. Waiting outside for her were three hapless LJBF-ed omegas. This… Read more »

GhostShip
Guest
GhostShip

Single mothers always say that their ex was an abusive asshole. They never admit to any responsibility for the breakup. The blame is always solely put on the ex for why they’re now single. It’s funny how many beta chumps fall for this drivel. They buy into the fantasy that they are getting to play the hero and rescuing this poor damsel in distress that was treated so horribly by her last asshole/alpha baby’s daddy. The truth is that the beta’s with their white knight fantasies are being played for suckers. They would be dropped kick to the curb in… Read more »

Jon
Guest
Jon

Actually overheard some girls talking about a single mom at a coffee shop a few months back, saying she only needs to get pregnant again in order to nail her current guy into getting married and all her problems disappear….. What was interesting was the way they were so supportive of her and the plot to nail this guy /no compassion or consideration for the guy at all. It was quite an enlightening 20 minutes. Depending on the outcome of course, this could easily have been a double single Mum ending another bad relationship….

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

@Jon: Interesting idea. The state already takes away your privileges to be considered a rational human being once you are divorced. They assume because you are in that position that you are not capable of making good decisions. Should you be unable to keep your divorce out of court (I was until my ex took it there a year later) you will be subject to what other people think is right for your children. If it ever happens to any of you, which I hope it won’t, if at all possible, keep it out of court because it takes the… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

@Jon: EEK!!!!!!!!!! When I said interesting idea I was referring to your marriage incentive, not the post that snuck in just now before mine posted.

Cyrus
Guest
Cyrus

This highlights one of the biggest issues with girls dating behavior today.

They expect two men. A girl I’m currently seeing, a tall and slender brunette at the peak of her looks (I can almost see it going down hill from the foundation on her makeup) has another guy she flirts with on the side. He takes her to new movies she really wants to see. While I show her old movies on Netflix.

Men, choose your role BEFORE entering the relationship, lest you become new-movie-and-dinner guy.

Coy
Guest
Coy

Key question here is the quality of intimacy offered by such women. Single moms as well as carousel riders may be good for a random bang, but speaking from an ltr/str/wanna see the value added stuff screening perspective… Can these women make a man feel like a man? Even if you are the next bad boy on her list do you get the same intensity of passion. Sure she bends and blows well but does she bond and make you feel wanted? Leaving the issue of kids aside it is my perception that single mothers and long time carousel riders… Read more »

Jon
Guest
Jon

>>@Jon: EEK!!!!!!!!!! When I said interesting idea I was referring to your marriage incentive, not the post that snuck in just now before mine posted.

Yep, understood, np!

Anon
Guest
Anon

While I wouldn’t blame a woman for divorcing if there’s abuse and cheating, most of these women simply overlooked these issues or thought they could ‘change’ him over time. They liked the alpha or status of their man enough to believe their own rationalizations. GeishaKate: I have no shame about being a divorced dad. While I wasn’t a perfect husband, my ex-wife was the one who destroyed everything. For every thing I might have to be ashamed of, there are dozens of things I can be proud of. You outline a few things your husband did that you didn’t like,… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

@Coy: I’ve been told in the past when I’ve made the distinction between a single mother and a divorced mother that there really is no difference, but I do think there is one. While it is as possible that a single mother has only had one sexual partner, its less likely, in my opinion, than that of a divorced mother, especially if she married young. Information about the duration of the relationship would be important to know, in my, again, humble opinion. I’ve had conversations with guys about whether getting involved with women fresh out of divorce is a good… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

@Anon: There is no changing an alcohlic who is in denial. Most of the regulars have heard enough of my sad, little tale and, frankly, I’m tired of telling it. Sometimes I like to share things so others can learn from my mistakes, but I am still learning not to fall into the trap of justification.

Sam
Guest
Sam

On the whole, Single Mothers are without a doubt THE most irresponsible and unaccountable women on the sexual market place. After having a couple of trysts with these individuals, I would recommend never going beyond a “fuck-n-chuck” mentality. I don’t care how good the pussy is. The fact that the female is in that situation has to make a man question her judgment. It should be an automatic response. As a side not, Men who engage in The Crimson Art form are irresistible to most SMs. They eat tight, quality Game up. Every. Single. Time. I use them for practice,… Read more »

Solo
Guest

Rollo when I read this post my reaction when I got done was http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/2008chode/Gifz/gladje4.gif Not trying to turn this into a race issue, but SM are everywhere in my town. It’s annoying I hear the same story from them over and over again “I was good to him (baby daddy or daddies)but he treated me like shit, if you my man solo I’ll cook for you, clean blah blah blah” Of course all I have to do is put up with Ray-ray jr, Jamel, and Lil Tay-Tay all whom got different baby daddies, who are all deadbeat dad’s who aren’t… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

For Solo:

Ras Al Ghul
Guest
Ras Al Ghul

You know its a different dynamic with divorced guys. I have watched some guys that got divorced and the women start out saying how appealing it is that the divorced guys have kids. And being with the kids so they can’t be with the girls at certain times creates a default “push” that seems to draw the women in for a while But then there is the shift when they’ve seen someone for a period of time and then the woman resents the whole thing and starts pushing for both total inclusion and also starts interfering with the relationship between… Read more »

Coy
Guest
Coy

@geishakate: that’s what I said these women are not good prospects simply because the quality of intimacy may not be worth it. Again I do not discount the case of the unlucky divorcee /widow but then time may not be the perfect medicine. It may heal but does it cure? Even for single women it is essential for a man to try to estimate the level of bonding she offers. If you plan to be serious that is. Also if a man is somewhat accomplished and even moderately confident why shouldn’t he look for a low baggage low partner count… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Hypothetical: Imagine you meet a fairly attractive woman in her early to mid 30’s. She’s a widow, no children, married early so no real suspicions of her getting around in her past, comes from a moderately conservative family, respects men and believes in traditional gender roles. Though her husband’s death is still a lingering issue for her, she tells you she’s looking to finally move on with her life and start dating again.

On your first date she reveals she is the widow of Pat Tillman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

Do you continue to date her?

Wet Willy
Guest
Wet Willy

You know honestly the whole Roissy mentality is starting to get overplayed. It’s as if the entirety of both gender bloggers is in complete denial of the evolved programming and physiological stimuli that prompt us to lust, copulate, pair-bond and then move on (physically or mentally) after 3-7 years. Instead we must wrap it in ad-hoc judgements and rationalizations such as the author’s Bad Boys vs Beta’s take. Women are hard wired to seek out high risk/reward, achievement oriented men to have offspring with – as they should. They possess a world view that compliments this strategy. From an Evolutionary… Read more »

Coy
Guest
Coy

@rollo: nice example. Alpha Widows……. Damn. What normal chump can amog that guy. So my question stands. What would be the level of intimacy a guy could hope in this case……I know I would not be appreciated for being there. Definitely not in the long run. Even if I were its no buffer against hyper gamy, so genuine desire takes a hit.
Conclusion : Bang and bye bye.

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

MNL wrote: But in brief, the star of this season appears to be a MILF and “hero” single mom with her bad boy spawn in tow. (Am I wrong? Do we know a more sanitized version of the kid’s existence?). From what I understand, she is a widow. Her husband was a race-car driver who died in a plane crash, when she was pregnant with that “kid’s existence.” This is the problem with game-colored glasses. The confirmation bias not only guarantees an unrealistic approach to tricky intersexual circumstances, it also encourages a kind of tastelessness for which men who weren’t… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

The video is scary.

Hero
Guest
Hero

The phenomenon of single motherhood being popular and revered is troubling to me, too. Recently, I’ve seen two women take this route willingly. One a long time friend and one my sister in-law. Both are educated and were women I had respect for at one point. My friend is approaching to 40, labels herself as bisexual and was in a committed lesbian relationship. Her partner wanted to raise a child with her. The partner is good woman and would have been a great caregiver. My friend decided that she didn’t want to be with her partner any more and they… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@Willy, I cosign 100% with you on the evolutionary mechanics of it. It is one sexual strategy vs. another, but in a social context, one of those strategies is the dominant one defining the rules for the other.

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

@Coy: ” Also if a man is somewhat accomplished and even moderately confident why shouldn’t he look for a low baggage low partner count woman?”

He should. Hey, that’s the way the cookie crumbles. When I was young I wouldn’t have looked at someone with a child. I understand. Now its slightly different. Its kind of nice to talk with other parents and exchange advice.

Wet Willy
Guest
Wet Willy

@ Rollo: “but in a social context, one of those strategies is the dominant one defining the rules for the other.” Precisely. She’s appears to be following the Fem-centric imperative of female choice, and sexual exclusivity, which, as a fertile unencumbered female, she could demand. NOW, with kids in tow, her value has dropped considerably in the eyes of available men making her former strategy much less viable or likely. Her options at this point may be spinsterhood with cheap empty thrills, a low quality man with few options, or availing herself to the latent emotional attachment that comes from… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

How is this analysis of the 29yo reformed slut helpful to her? A well-sourced and wordy (and even justifiable) way of saying she is SOL is still just an advanced form of “I told you so,” or Nelson from The Simpsons pointing and saying, “Ha-ha.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIrhVo1WA78 Just because she is living proof of the righteousness of game doesn’t mean she is beyond redemption or cannot achieve a quantum of solace here in the aftermath of the sexual revolution. Women like her need better advice so that they don’t pass their disease down to their daughters. They need to see that… Read more »

mr.magNIFicient1
Guest
mr.magNIFicient1

Matt, those are beautiful thoughts.
(we’re still gonna draw-and-quarter the architects, though…right?)

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

It’s as if the entirety of both gender bloggers is in complete denial of the evolved programming and physiological stimuli that prompt us to lust, copulate, pair-bond and then move on (physically or mentally) after 3-7 years. Hey, Wet Willy, we’re not all half-apes still frolicking on the veldt with a life-expectancy of 25. The founders of civilization were not “in denial.” They wanted more out of life than the “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” You think we can have all of the good consequences of savagery with none of the bad. That makes you much more than just… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

re Matt’s 4:13 post: Awesome. The conversation needs to ultimately turn to solutions.

YOHAMI
Guest

Yes.

Wolf
Guest
Wolf

“First, they need to understand where they’re at and how they got to be who they are now. They’ve hit the Wall by default.”

This is true.

Good post Rollo

koevoet
Guest
koevoet

Matt, Kate, I am really starting to like both of your comments in general. In specific, what solutions would you propose to the PM’er?

immoralgables
Guest

@ King. A Matt I hear you on this: ” That means stowing away petty resentments and fantasies of payback against former 8′s and 9′s making their final approach to the wall.” When I first started reading the manosphere and internalizing all this stuff. There was this smug satisfaction I had when interacting with girls. It was this realization that one day that their SMV would decline and mine would rise (all things equal) and I would be vindicated. That girl who rejected me in high-school? My ex-gf who broke up with me because I acted beta? The girl who… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

Here’s some advice for Rollo’s 29 YO correspondent. I know most won’t agree, but it will give this woman her best shot at at least a little satisfaction. 1. No f**kbuddies. No revolving door of boyfriends. That’s what got you to where you are now. 2. Get a head to toe physical exam. Get any medical issues and/or chronic diseases or infections identified and dealt with. 3. Accept that you might remain single and celibate for the rest of your life. Just accept that now. You have probably severely damaged or destroyed your ability to pair bond with one man… Read more »

Wet Willy
Guest
Wet Willy

@Matt King “Hey, Wet Willy, we’re not all half-apes still frolicking on the veldt with a life-expectancy of 25.” >>Actually Human DNA is ~96% similar to Chimps. The chemical markers associated with lust, love and attachment and their inevitable waning in pair bonds is well documented. But you’re right we’re not half-apes. Matt: “The founders of civilization were not “in denial.” They wanted more out of life than the “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” You think we can have all of the good consequences of savagery with none of the bad. That makes you much more than just naïve.… Read more »

Solo
Guest

@Deti

+1 On that list

/post

MNL
Guest
MNL

@King A (Matthew King)

A big THANK YOU for the clarification on the origins of the Bachelorette’s kid. I have a tad more empathy for her predicament.

Tertullian
Guest
Tertullian

@WetWilly: it might help you to know that “King A (Matthew King)” is a wild-eyed, bible-thumping, scripture-quoting maniac whose entire schtick on sites like these revolves around snark, insult, and wildly unrealistic proposals for reforming the world, one beta — or one single mom — at a time.

In other words, you can safely disregard his drivel.

John Galt
Guest
John Galt

“Hypothetical: Imagine you meet a fairly attractive woman in her early to mid 30′s. She’s a widow, no children, married early so no real suspicions of her getting around in her past, comes from a moderately conservative family, respects men and believes in traditional gender roles. Though her husband’s death is still a lingering issue for her, she tells you she’s looking to finally move on with her life and start dating again. On your first date she reveals she is the widow of Pat Tillman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman Do you continue to date her?” Rollo – interesting question for me on… Read more »

Team-Red
Guest
Team-Red

“Sexual Freedom” is where feminism fucked up. Once Women were no longer being shamed by society for whoring around it became our cultural norm and accepted. Single Motherhood is just a byproduct of it all…

Wet Willy
Guest
Wet Willy

@Tertullian Ahh….now it makes sense. Maybe I should have framed it in terms of naked ladies and talking snakes.

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

@koevoet: I would suggest an online dating site like chemistry.com that is geared towards people looking for relationships. It is very easy on that site to filter for what you are looking for. Its the more mature sister company of match.com. There is a lengthy personality test to take that helps match you with compatible people. You are put into four categories: builder, negotiator, explorer, and director (this last one is what we would call alpha). It used to have a genius construction that only allowed you to get to know each other gradually based on mutual interest. It was… Read more »

BlackCat
Guest
BlackCat

Add another +1 on deti’s list.

From a young age well into adulthood, I have witnessed several female relatives divorce, some multiple times, always initiated by them, and always blaming the other party. There is no hamster rationalization that surprises me anymore. None.

Now, whenever I am subjected to a divorcer (99% female) who one-sidedly blames the other party (again, 99% female), I nod until my patience runs out, which isn’t long, and then ask:

“So, are you bad at managing relationships, or just a poor judge of character?”

Johnny
Guest
Johnny

Excellent article! You’ve answered so many unasked questions in my head as to why I broke off a seven year relationship with a single mother. Despite loving her very much I just couldn’t marry her because she had kids (she even only had partial custody during summers) but I couldn’t explain why. I now have me a single, decent woman but, still plagued by a serious case of oneitis for my single mama!

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

“By seeking a Beta to settle down and have kids with you are arguing with millions of years of empirical reproductive refinement.” Speaking to elderly women from Eastern Europe, i gleened that betas in the past were the equivalent of today’s alphas, there was no state sponsored fall back option and if you had children with a bad boy you lived in starvation and poverty. Deti you underestimate the number, willingness and desperation of AFCs, my stand up good guy work colleague married a woman with four children. If a single mother divorces before she hits the wall and stays… Read more »

peoplegrowing
Guest
peoplegrowing

Matt: “The founders of civilization were not “in denial.” They wanted more out of life than the “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” You think we can have all of the good consequences of savagery with none of the bad. That makes you much more than just naïve. That makes you a philosophical cousin of the feminist.” >> And yet the stimuli remains despite these elusive ‘founders’ want. Who exactly are these founders, how do you know what they “want” and how is this relevant to anything discussed?? Telling. Wet Willy, I just don’t get where you are coming from.… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

“King A (Matthew King)” is a wild-eyed, bible-thumping, scripture-quoting maniac whose entire schtick on sites like these revolves around snark, insult, and wildly unrealistic proposals for reforming the world, one beta — or one single mom — at a time.”

And although he occasionally comes up with a good line or even a few sentences of insight, you stand no chance to engage him logically on any point.

And although he is pointless for discussion, it’s fun to see you play with him.

xsplat
Guest

i gleened that betas in the past were the equivalent of today’s alphas, there was no state sponsored fall back option and if you had children with a bad boy you lived in starvation and poverty.

So in the past bad boys were poor, and betas had stable income?

I’m not sure it really worked like that. In fact the aristocracy rose out of those very bad boys – the thugs who took over towns by the tip of their swords.

Marellus
Guest

Rollo.

Great post. It’s hard not to feel bitter after reading this.

xsplat
Guest

It means she should be aware of those inclinations so she can squash them when they appear, and nurture her better instincts instead. To what end? So that she can be “good”? A lot of us were brought up to think with our gut, and to listen to that gut to know what is truly right and wrong. The problem is that the gut is also a product of evolution. What is right is always right because it has given someone advantage. Right and wrong are the products of evolution. For those who lack wit enough to be Machiavelian, they… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest
deti
Guest
deti

@ johnycomelately: “Deti you underestimate the number, willingness and desperation of AFCs, my stand up good guy work colleague married a woman with four children. If a single mother divorces before she hits the wall and stays in shape she is almost guaranteed to find an AFCS that is willing to be a cuckhold and do the yeoman’s work.” I suspect you’re right, and a hot single mom can find an AFC. But if you make a dent in the number of men willing to reject single moms (even hot ones willing to spread their legs for an AFC to… Read more »

ZLX1
Guest
ZLX1

Veering off a bit – but still in the ballpark… What about single dads? Interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on the SMV/LTR impact of being a single father, since I am one. In my post divorce experience so far it has come up a time or two but not at all to the degree that I expected. It seems thus far, in my personal interactions, that a lot of women seem not to care. Or at least they seem not to care to the degree that men do in terms of aversion to dating someone with “priors.” Obviously divorced women… Read more »

Wet Willy
Guest
Wet Willy

@peoplegrowing: “Wet Willy, I just don’t get where you are coming from. This site in particular, and many manosphere sites in general, already point out that males and females have different, base instincts. Nobody here argues that that isn’t the case. But the point is, as humans, we have the ability to go beyond these base instincts and do things that are unnatural: we do it all the time.” My comments regarding “base instincts” were not directed to the site in general, it was a rebuttal to Matt who scoffed at the idea that innate stimuli should be a consideration… Read more »

HolySwordFarewell
Guest
HolySwordFarewell

So funny, 2-3 girls post on these stories, and half the comments here are guys placating to them. Ironic.

killing oneitis
Guest

ZLX1 +1. Rollo, if you could spit some truth about the opposite scenario, divorced dads, I think that would benefit many of your readers.

blackbird.young
Guest

Before I read the rest of the article or others comments, I want to say that this woman sounds word for word like someone I got to know “intimately” as she so desires about 9 months ago. When I met her I was exclusively with a girl, but that didn’t stop me from going out and meeting new people. I met this single mother Indepdentish Women with her at the time “boyfriend” in a bar (during the afternoon – double red flag: bar + drinking early + it being that specific bar). She stood out like an angel amongst demons… Read more »

itsme
Guest
itsme

@blackbird What baffles me is this woman falls on the farthest extreme of all things considerd crazy about women, yet harbors the same perspectives regarding her decisions and the men she’s with as EVERY woman I have met. yes, this is what we refer to as the ‘rationalization hamster’. all women have this. it occupies that part of the brain which in a male would normally be responsible for logical and rational thought. evolution, over the eons, rewired the female brain progressively deprecating and finally eliminating the capacity for logic and reasoning as it simply was not necessary. i.e. women… Read more »

Orion
Guest
Orion

The issue is that feminism, in its attempt to “free” women also cut men adrift. Women have been told it is OK to be a single mother and they don’t need men. Men are no longer looked down upon for failing to “be a man” and father their children. As someone who was raised by a single mother (my father died when I was 15) I can say with full experience that the biggest loss is the children’s. I came out the least scarred as the eldest of three and have had plenty to deal with. There is no substitute… Read more »

immoralgables
Guest

@Blackbird

Way to ruin the comment thread haha. At least provide a TL;DR version next time and leave out the mass wall of text.

We can try to help but looking at your comment made me think blech. Has some woman caused you to lose your mind? Get a grip of yourself man.

J.M.
Guest
J.M.

@Matt Normally you have more interesting things to say, but whether you believe in justice or not actions have consequences, for every action there is a reaction whether you believe in divinity or not, if I touch a torch flame with my bare hands, I will get seared, if not burned outright, so please don´t insult our intelligence with drivel like “most audience of game blogs is made up of ex-nerds lusting for vengeance or something like that. Unfortunately we do not live in our ancestors world, there was a reason why women were not given power in society… and… Read more »

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m33n
Guest
m33n

Forget marrying them.

You know what sucks about Single Mothers / Independent Wimyn?

Getting stuck with them in the workplace.

The persecution/martyr complex is palpable. They are usually late, want to leave early, constantly texting baby-sitters, and the worst shirkers in the workplace.

Yeah, I know not all single mothers are like that; just every one I’ve ever had the misfortune of working with.

Mature DJ
Guest
Mature DJ

I remember a time in the mid 90’s, when I started having a dry spell with proper maidens, that I dipped down into dating a few single mommies. (Looking back, I don’t think I would have ever actually gone through with marrying one – but certainly wanted a vaginal receptacle at the time.) Anyway, there was one chick who like this chick, had 2 toddlers, and at her house, amazingly she had her wedding pictures (which hubby) on the wall. WTF? I probably could have gotten into her golden V, but I just felt like I would have been the… Read more »

Joe
Guest
Joe

The problem with this MILF shit is that so many men bought into it now they drove up the price of love, sex, and companionship even more!

時計 バーバリー
Guest

あなたはダウンタウンの道端の店からバッグを購入している場合最後にその後本物のデザイナーハンドバッグを期待していない

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RickRolls
Guest
RickRolls

You people have been huffing your own fumes so long you’ve decided that the experience you’ve had is the limit of possibility. Think about it: Not all second marriages, even of the AFBB variety, are doomed. If the woman is honest with herself (yes, this one hasn’t been so far) or her AFBB hamster is properly calibrated (and doesn’t revert to seeking the thrill of an Alpha affair), it can work out just fine. You silly bastards aren’t special, most of you. You’re lucky. Lucky to live in a time when most borderline alphas are socialized into beta behavior, and… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

Tits or shut up.

Mad Yale Grad
Guest
Mad Yale Grad

She sounds very rational. She realizes many men would be worried about engaging with her because of her baggage and the assumption she wants a new hubby and father. She doesn’t want that. She simply wants a friend with benefits and she’s honest about it. She also doesn’t want her kids exposed to the guy and that’s a very good sign of a conscientious mother. She was married so she’s not a “baby mama”. Her husband eventually cheated on her and abused her so she divorced him. Another example of good parenting skills, keeping her kids away from the philandering… Read more »

Looking for Zion
Guest
Looking for Zion

Fucking right the fuck on. Da truth!