Backwards to Zero

Roissy has some definitive gems about Game deniers and haters in general in The Unbearable Triteness of Hating. These articles have to do with the most common forms of hate with regards to Game, but in that hate is an almost universal misinterpretation (or subjective redefinition) of what should be Alpha to the critic making the challenge (i.e. hate). Roissy is a bit flippant with a lot of his responses here – an attitude I can understand considering his standing in the manosphere – but there are the germs of some very important truths in his responses:

6. Unironic Internet Smear Hate

Hater: Alphas don’t blog. They’re too busy meeting women.

Because, you know, alphas don’t have hobbies. *alpha eye roll*

ps feel free to log off the internet any time.

Whenever I write an article with the topic of ‘Alpha’ anywhere in the title I’ve come to assume that all the resulting commentary will be contentions about what is or isn’t Alpha.

One of the most frequent and contentious responses I read is some variation of “No ‘True Alpha™’ would be blogging about, concerned about, or be peripherally aware of his Alpha status. Only losers spend their time so preoccupied with varying shades of Alpha-ness.” Ironically this is exactly the case I make for the Alpha Buddahs of the world – they are blissfully unaware of the latent Alpha ambience they broadcast. It’s just how they are, and you’ll never see a blog, read some ‘how-to’ article, nor ever see an objective opinion about his Alpha mojo. He just is.

What’s funny is it’s just this lack of Alpha self-awareness that infuriates ‘aware’ men – aware men have to work at being aware. If you’re reading this blog, if you’ve delved into the manosphere to any depth, hell, if you read AskMen or use online dating just out of curiosity, you’re not a Natural Alpha. The Corey Worthingtons of the world don’t write books on how to pick up chicks, he’s too busy fucking them (and dealing with the consequences) to have time for insight about himself, much less anyone else.

The Tao of the Natural Alpha may be a satisfying, if shortsighted, way to live, but it’s hardly sustainable. Eventually that Zen Alpha-ness creates circumstances that will create long term consequences. For the rest of us who must mentally work our way back to that feral Alpha mindset there is a lot of understanding and critical thought that goes into it. Personally I think appeals to “log off and get out and sarge” are exactly what most guys need. For all the PUA ‘charm’ readers like YaReally bring to my blog comments, he enthusiastically advocates for more time in the field and less time in the lab (i.e. the manosphere). KrauserPUA is also another favorite of mine since he actively combines Game theory with PUA applications.

The short version is Natural Alphas probably don’t blog or even have the awareness to consider the source, much less the applicability of their being Alpha, but the Learned Alpha, he does consider it, and that guy probably does blog – whether it’s out of vanity or altruism is for the reader to decide.

12. Fallacy of Misdirected Obsession Hate

Hater: A guy who spends his life obsessing over how to get women is a loser.

A guy who spends his life obsessing over climbing the corporate ladder to get more attention from women is a loser.
A guy who spends his life obsessing over mastering guitar and playing in a rock band to get more attention from women is a loser.
A guy who spends his life obsessing over pursuing financial rewards and acquiring resources to get more attention from women is a loser.
A guy who….. ah, you get the point.

The feminine imperative has used shaming tactics on men for more than half a century now, so it comes as no surprise that the feminine purpose for shaming would filter into men’s own narratives for shaming. When used by women, shaming has a different contextual quality than when used by men. For men, the root of shaming another man based on gender expectations are just as equally manipulative, but the appeal is to a man’s sense of pride and/or the way he’s chosen to live his life. In this context, the shame is used to disqualify a sexual competitor, while providing an ego affirmation for the accuser.

When women use shaming it’s generally used to force some compliance to their imperative. In other words “you should be ashamed for not embodying women’s (and by proxy, fem-centric society’s) expectations.” When men practice shame, either intentionally or unaware, even with the best of intentions, they are enforcing the feminine imperative from the standpoint that it is the societal normative. It “sounds right” for men to shame and discourage other men from learning how to better understand women. Remember, the most successful social conventions are those in which your target becomes an active, unaware, participant in his own exploitation.

By using shame, men dissuading other men from better understanding women serve the feminine imperative’s purpose in limiting The Threat of him becoming aware of his own sexual market value or potential value. Additionally, the shaming man protects the utility of the feminine mystique by perpetuating the myth that women are intrinsically unknowable creatures. “You’ll never figure women out, so don’t bother. Go back to Just Being Yourself and eventually you’ll meet the right ONE.” This is the mantra we’ve come to expect from White Knights, but it’s particularly damning for the Plugged-In when it comes from a Man they respect as an authority.

16. Dancing Monkey Hate

Hater: Men who run game are just doing the bidding of women. Alphas don’t entertain women.

If you want success with women, you are going to have to entertain them… one way or the other. The same is true of women. Once a woman stops entertaining men with her body, her femininity, and her commitment worthiness by getting fat, old, ugly, bitchy, or single mom-y, she stops having success with men. We are all doing the bidding of our biomechanical overlord, and on our knees to his will we surrender, by force or by choice. You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.
Or: If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.

For all of Men’s best intentions, for all our (dubious) aspirations of ‘higher-self’, what we do, what we are, what we achieve, will always be interpreted through the hypergamous filter of a woman’s perception of us. For all of our attempts to remove ourselves from the Game, Men cannot avoid this. By both biological impulse and social motivators, like it or not we are the performers, we are the approachers, we are the doers, even when (especially when) we think our purpose is not intended to be what we think it is. Abdicating from the Game does not excuse you from participating in the Game.

Whether you believe yourself the princely master of your own destiny or the pitiful victim of circumstance, on some level of consciousness you’re aware of the Game, and it’s a game of perceptions. Alpha’s, betas, Nice Guys, Bad Boys, and every guy in between, they ALL entertain women, even when they think they’ve gone their own way, even when they think they’re exempt from the Game, even when they’ve been married for 50 years.

It is a grave crime to tacitly or implicitly dissuade men from learning how better to master the Game. I can see how this misdirection might be used to disqualify a sexual competitor, but the same guys relying on rationalizations of higher-self-importance only better serve the feminine imperative they would otherwise rage against. Ironically it’s the feminine that’s arrogantly demanded every advantage in expecting society and reality itself to change for them in order better suit their gender’s drawbacks. They want to change the Game to better suit their ability to play it. They want to cheat the Game by playing in ‘God Mode’ and then wonder why it’s not fun to play any more.

I think we make the same mistake as men in our rationalizing expectations of the Game to accommodate us rather than learning to play it better.

Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Socialkenny PUA
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My qualm and beef with Roissy is that he has no Game.

He has zero real-world experience in seducing women.He’s like a theorist with Game.He talks a good one but can’t or don’t do shit.Dudes like that I can’t respect.Why the F is Roissy anonymous?Where’s his in-field videos?

Although I consider myself Manosphere,my prob’ with dudes in the manosphere is that they talk the talk but don’t demo shit in the form of field/lay reports.

http://kennyspuathoughts.wordpress.com/

YOHAMI
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The hate is usually just adhominem and denial.

On one hand they reject the whole alpha-beta ladder, and on the other they affirm it by saying that real [alphas] dont do this or dont do that.

If you deny the ladder, then no one can be a “loser”, because that would push someone down, thus pushing someone up, with the one on top being more attractive = there’s your ladder again.

Haters are dumb.

Samuel Solomon
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We don’t use game because we are losers, or betas, or dancing monkeys.

We do it because it’s FUN!

Game = fun.

Everyone likes to have fun. But… haters gonna hate.

Rollo Tomassi
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Out of curiosity, what’s your opinion of KrauserPUA?

YOHAMI
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If you havent seen him in person, how do you know he has no game?

Game != PUA != Manosphere btw.

Socialkenny PUA
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Krauser is awesome!!

In fact,a few weeks ago,I posted an article on my blog entitled “Top 10 PUA coaches on 2012(first half)”,Krauser made my list.

My only prob’ with Krauser’s Game is that he seems too low-energied in set(as far as his in-field vids’ show).He seems to come off as too bland for chics who are high-energied.

Apart from that,I rated him in the top 10 of PUA/coaches of 2012.

Socialkenny
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Good point.

Ever have a hunch or nagging feeling when someone’s full of shit?That’s the sensation I get when I think of Heartiste.That intuitive feeling which is almost always right.

I’ve said it before:I love his writing!I love reading his stuff.And I agree with his seduction philosophy 95% of the times lol!

But something tells me he can’t put it into action.And when last has he written a field report?

Socialkenny PUA
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@Rollo-BTW check your comment spam folder and approve my messages which were sent to spam(IDK why).After approving once,I’d then be able to comment as logged in directly.

Socialkenny PUA
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The best medium is a guy who can apply what he teaches and also teach it.

I know of few top PUA coaches who can apply Game theory and techniques,but shitty at teaching it.

Professor Mentu
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This is one of the best posts I’ve read in a while. Ashur and I were just discussing “do Alphas blog?” the other night.

Socialkenny
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I really don’t get why this article seems to be equating blogging to inactivity.

Naturals may not blog(for many reasons:poor diction,non writers,unaware of Game),but they damn sure do other in-activities;be it TV surf,etc.

Alphas do blog.But I give more respect to a guy who can walk the walk and also could relate steps of courtship.

Fountain
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Hey Rollo, This is off topic but I’ve recently started checking out some of the links on your blogroll and have come across one in particular that I just can’t wrap my mind around – “Koanic Soul”. Does this site really have your stamp of approval, or are you just linking to it because it has some discussion of game? From what I’ve gathered, It seems to be mostly about some fringe theory that latent neanderthal genes are randomly expressed in the human population and that they bestow certain superior intellectual and physical characteristics (of which it is claimed almost… Read more »

koevoet
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Why is Roissy anonymous? I don’t know, ask Roosh about how awesome it is to have your real identity open to attack from the enemy.

Factory
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Factory
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Haters hate Game for the same reason WKs hate MRAs. It challenges deeply held beliefs, makes a man feel foolish (and usually inadequate), and in the main leads to a frightfully low opinion of the women in this society. It’s waking up at 40 and realizing you belong with the kids in the beginners class. While finally understanding the rewards real value is quite a bit less than you thought. It’s like taking away the last delusional hope that keeps some guys going. Oh, that and a lot of PUAs are both gratingly self-promoting, and utterly lacking in insight. Anyone… Read more »

Socialkenny PUA
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@Koevoet-As much as I can’t stand Roosh nowadays(for blacklisting me from posting on his blog and Twitter),I respect that he isn’t anonymous.

And the real reason I believe that 95% of the Manosphere bloggers/Gamer are anonymous is that they’re actually fat slobs/couch-potatoes and very unsightly.But it still comes down to a Beta mentality where one would have to hide himself because he doesn’t look like Brad Pitt.

Stingray
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Hater: Alphas don’t blog. They’re too busy meeting women. Roissy put out a tweet the other day stating that he can pick out the Alphas in his comments just from their handles. I believe him. What one doesn’t garner from their handle, it is quite easy to distinguish men’s rankings after reading a comment or two. Same with bloggers. Whether they are beta turned Alpha or a natural making sure he stays that way is irrelevant. One has respect for both for different reasons. Beta men and alpha men are going to find this whole manosphere conversation tedious for different… Read more »

And Balls
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I personally know a few guys who went out with Roissy in DC back in the late 90s/early 2000s. They said he’s a tall, good-looking guy who runs that style of game, and he pulls nicely. He doesn’t care what you think of him, nor does he need approval from anyone like you. Why is it on him to put up infield?

Obstinance Works
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I learn very little from videos. Krauser is only demonstrating what he has explained and it will look different for everyone anyway. I would rather read because that is how intelligent people learn. Roissy is not a guttersnipe without a reputation in life.

Socialkenny PUA
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@And Balls-I know how Roissy looks.

In the post I wrote about him,I had a pic of him in the article.He’s tall as hell.He doesn’t have to be in hiding because he’s unsightly(which he’s not).

I’m just saying that most of the Manopshere hides because they’re unsightly:which is a Beta male trait of being self-conscious of looks.

Obstinance Works
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Mickey Mantle had the first modern day baseball swing. He was a natural. It tool years to systematise that in a very popular sport. Of course PUAs are often all over the place. We are still in the latent stages. 50 years from now it will be different.

Socialkenny PUA
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@Obstinance-Reason why field-report videos are crucial(although may not be for learning purposes),is that it tells ppl that you can actually apply what’s being taught.

Nothing more validating(to yourself and your followers) than being able to prove that you can chat up an HB10.

Rollo Tomassi
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One of the inherent dangers of becoming the go-to guy on Game or anything that rubs the feminine defined reality the wrong way is that you paint a pretty big target on yourself. Literally and figuratively. I’m not a proponent of Roissy’s politics, but I definitively co-sign with his perspective on intergender relations. Now, which of these stances earns him the most vitriol? His writings about gender; that’s how important it is to defend the feminine imperative for the masses of online feminists and manginas. They can ignore his political screeds as just some right-wing crank, but they become so… Read more »

YOHAMI
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That’s true. That’s also why I give my middle finger to it. More of us need to come out of the closet and live in the open.

Flahute
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Seduction is always a conscious act by the seducer, otherwise it is not seduction.

koevoet
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I think Rollo’s reason has a lot more to do with it than 95% of them being fat slobs. As for no-true-scotsman…I mean alpha…would hide what he looks like…I think logical fallacies have been covered pretty well between this post and the one it quotes.

jimmy
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Forgive me for stating the obvious but Roissy and Rationalmale would be considered high order macro, as opposed to micro, inter gender relations (pick up and relationship) ideas, thought provoking core concepts etc – the why not so much the exact how to. A step further up the chain? PUA blogs with in field lay reports are mainly one person’s blow by blow pony tricks, effective as they may be – you can’t directly compare them and criticize them for supposed lack of hard examples. (Some people learn best by watching – I can understand that.) Surely this is just… Read more »

Socialkenny
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Well how many of us are RooshV’s and Heartistes?

So what about the little man blogger like us?Why are we anonymous?We have nothing to fear,right?

Jack
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Roisy as a right-winger? We really need a definition of what “Right” and “Left” mean far more than we need a definition of what “Alpha-male” means. Roissy is a white nationalist or at least has WN sympathies. He’s a racial conservative with a materialist philosophical foundation. He uses ev-psych and socio-biology to support Social/Paleo Conservatism. Right Winger? I don’t know but Roissy has more in common with Jared Taylor than with Ludwig Von Mises or Adam Smith. Roissy understands inter-gender dynamics (although his nihilism is a turn off) but what aggravates me about him is that on his own terms… Read more »

YOHAMI
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“If he had integrity he would advocate finding a high self-esteem woman and using your game skills to build a meaningful relationship”

Lolz

Integrity can take other shapes, and the high self-esteem woman makes no sense – at all, no matter how much integrity you have. Unless you mean making all of us a favor by taking a fatty out of the market.

Other than that, I dont like Roissy for these same reasons.

s
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another thing “game-haters” say is that when a chick is attracted to you physically, anything you say next won’t matter because she already wants to fuck you. which of ocurse makes no sense.

lolzzzlolz
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I would agree with you completely except for one thing I think you may have overlooked or disagree with. You seem to be of the assumption that we can immediately improve society, that we haven’t fallen off the cliff yet. From what I’ve seen things are going to need to get worse before they can get better. You can’t get society directly back into prosperity, it has to bottom out. The reason for this is that people are resistant to change and will only do so when they are pushed into a corner. Only by making the pain as acute… Read more »

Diego Sigma
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why do you even have to bother with the haters? it is you (us) that matters. because it is you (us) who understands. the hierarchy is the hierarchy and the hierarchy says only a small portion of you (us) will ever understand. accept it and nurture your (our) gifts. notice the recurring themes in asian martial arts movies. the master is always some aloof, cool, old man of very few words students come to him to learn, but he constantly taunts them only those who perseveres beyond his taunts gets rewarded with his wisdom he wouldn’t bat an eyelash to… Read more »

SpecialK
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Anyone who says that clearly has very little experience arousing women. I’ve blown it more times than I care to remember by saying/doing the wrong thing with a girl who was clearly aroused by my presence.

Shit, if it was easy, anyone could do it.

BlackCat
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Roosh himself says as much at the end of the blogpost linked by Rollo above:

“If I knew years ago that blogging about getting laid and travel would put me on a hate list by a civil rights organization, I would have stayed anonymous. Too late now. I will be silenced at some point, but until then I will go on with my big head held high. I’m far from done.”

Shallow Fox
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You nailed it.

ImmoralGables
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Nice work Diego solid stuff.

Lumpy
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I was under the impression that Roissy and Heartiste are two different people. Their style is very different. Am I mistaken?

feral1404
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Roissy and Roosh, for all their faults, are publishing material that is ultimately essential to red pill initiates – to those who know absolutely nothing about game, but must begin somewhere I, for one, remember the damnable female blowout that depressed me so badly that it led me to scour the internet for a solution as to why everything fell apart, only to find Roissy and Roosh. Sure, you don’t swallow everything they write… after awhile you separate the wheat from the chaffe… you discern. And if you’re sophisticated (read older) enough and already established in an LTR, you move… Read more »

feral1404
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A better analogy might be to think drill instructor on induction day breaking you down and building you up instead of the niceties of officer candidate school. One must necessarily follow the other as a matter of course.

Sam Spade
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I agree with a lot said here, but there is no such thing as a “natural alpha,” “natural player,” or just plain “natural.” All are “Learned Alphas” when it comes to what works and what doesn’t with women. The “Natural” wasn’t born with the tools other men had to learn online or in books to get women. The man people consider a natural went through the same process of trial and error, moving the needle, approaching, etc. as any recovering AFC. True, he probably didn’t blog or keep a personal diary about it. But the fact is that he learned… Read more »

YaReally
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I actually don’t care if someone goes out as long as what they’re saying aligns with what guys who go out regularly have experienced. ie – I imagine Roissy and Rollo don’t go out trying to pick up poon these days, I know Rollo is married and all that. But the things they describe/teach other men on their blogs like 95% line up with the combined experiences of tens of thousands of PUAs. So I like their blogs and appreciate what they’re doing for men. And when occasionally they hit that other 5% it’s usually not due to ignorant beliefs… Read more »

YaReally
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Also as you get older new sticking points and limited beliefs surface, especially if you only had some success back in your youth and it’s been years since you’ve legit been “in the field” seducing women and cold approaching etc. and that’s fine as long as you’re aware that that happens to you. But most of the old time “vets” I’ve seen around here don’t realize that. They’re the former high school jock still talking about the winning touchdown they once threw and think they can just hop out on the field for a professional game of football despite now… Read more »

TerraCottaCobra
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NIc Krauser might be the best PUA in terms of backing his writing up with in-field videos. His day-game videos are very helpful. The guys from daygame.com are legitimate, as well. When it comes to manosphere blogs I read them for two reasons. One: Absorbing a steady stream of pro-man, alpha-endorsing text is like therapy for the male psyche. Constantly reminding myself that their is a large community of people sharing my views and feeling the same frustrations I experience puts me at ease. Even though Roosh, Chateu Heartiste, and other kindred blogs do not help my game directly, they… Read more »

Marellus
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What have you seen regarding this ?

Me, I think there is overcompensation going on in their monikers.

They tend to appropriate names hinting at the grandiose, or the barbaric, or the disagreeable.

Anything that hijacks attention.

The best commenters are seducers, so there will be a bit of the tongue-in-the-cheek in their monikers, a bit of the vague, and a hint amusement.

wudang
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I´m sure in the beginning it wasn`t like that but if you look at a site like fastseduction (and the new fasterseduction) nowadays you will find a fairly large proportion of naturals that hear about game, found it to match their experience and found that reading PUA theory and exchanging experiences with guys was a good way to enhance their game even further. Also more game teachers(gurus than people think are in fact naturals. Zan is a natural, FrancoPUA who invented the term betaization and have contributed massively to the understanding of shit tests and other aspects of game is… Read more »

Diego Sigma
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the argument “there is no such thing as a natural” has a flavor of equalism sprinkled all over it — a complete denial of the existence of a biologically-determined social hierarchy. look around the animal kingdom, especially among social animals. the roles are very well defined. why do you think most of us in the manosphere bends towards the right-wing of the political spectrum? because by character we are individualists who welcome the challenge of clawing our way to the top through our own efforts (the selfish class). compare us to our mangina friends who are predominantly leftist, member-of-the-herd types,… Read more »

YOHAMI
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Diego, yes.

Diego Sigma
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to clarify, “nurture” is important. “nurture” is the stimuli that creates a positive feedback biochemical loop that expresses these genes.

but “nurture” will only help a certain subset of people (and it is small) who have the genes partially activated anyway (evident via classic right-wing mental schema, i propose).

you are here. you are one of them. enjoy that. work on yourselves.

the rest of male kind, forget about them. worker ants don’t get laid.

Stingray
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I haven’t seen anything. It’s much the same way one can tell a dominant man from a nondominant man in just a few moments of watching them.

I agree that many of the monikers are a product of overcompensation or how can I get the biggest laugh. But many are simply straight forward, clever names. It is not the attention seekers who are Alpha. It will be the most straight forward monikers or the tongue-in-cheek hinted amusement ones you speak of in your comment.

thechauvinistkaiser
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Word.

Mr. C
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An older friend of mine who I have known for some 30 years was a natural Alpha from his teens and literally had girls from school follow him home before he knew what to do with them. Yet ask him about how me managed to bang his way through his 20’s and 30’s and his response would be; “Just talk to them”. May “Alphas” have just enough smarts to meet and bang a pile of women but often lack the capability to analyse the hows and whys. This particular guy spent so much time and energy chasing hot women it… Read more »

Mr. C
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It must be said that James Marshall of Melbourne (Australia) is somewhat of a Natural yet is also a shameless self-promoter and self aggrandising salesman of PUA.

Apollo
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The reason I roll my eyes every time I see the word Alpha used anywhere in the Manosphere is precisely because no one seems to be able to agree on what it means. Sure, “Alpha” has a proper definition in the English language, but you can almost guarantee that when the term is being used in the Manosphere, the “proper” definition is probably NOT the one that the author intended. And a word that doesn’t have a well defined and commonly understood meaning is just useless when it comes to effective and precise communication.  So many commentors and bloggers seem… Read more »

gregg
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According to my opinion, man should pursue freedom and truth. When you talk about roissy, why there si SO MUCH HATE, and passive aggresiveness in this guy? Look at his responses in the discussion? Pure hate, aggresivity, fragile ego – this is the result of tons of knowledge about women in his blog? Look at mystery – case for a shrink. Hmm? I do not like the word “game” I call it knowledge. And knowledge about women, about their very bodies and emotions, is one of the most importatnt things in life of every man. In this aspect – “game”… Read more »

Marellus
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… where does age come into this equation ?

gregg
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beans of knowledge here wink

xsplat
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“I’m much more interested in framing discussions about which behaviors/strategies or tactics will produce which results/outcomes, rather than which behaviors are “Alpha”” I read on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociosexual_orientation that “Individuals with an intrinsic religious orientation (i.e., religion as an end) tend to be sociosexually restricted, while those with an extrinsic religious orientation (i.e., religion as a means to achieve non-religious goals) tend to be unrestricted” Unrestricted in the context of that page about socio-sexual orientation means more open to sex outside of relationships. So guys who like to fuck around are more likely to see religion as a tool to do something… Read more »

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[…] by xsplat on July 4, 2012 Apollo So many commentors and bloggers seem to focus on being Alpha, or they imply that others are not […]

Apollo
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Interesting. There’s some real issues with that perspective though, of which you’re probably aware. Namely, there’s got to be a reason behind the drive to be all you can be – a better man. No one commits the energy required for effective self improvement without sufficient motivation. It’s basic human nature that we act only to gain pleasure or avoid pain, so there’s got to be some reward being gained or some punishment being avoided for self improvement to happen. So, they self improve to become better men so that they will then get women, at least in part? In… Read more »

Apollo
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Oh yeah, and before I went off on my rant above, I meant to state that anyone who uses the ideal of “Alpha” as a shield so that they don’t have to face what they really desire is just weak. (I assume that’s what you were saying these guys were doing, yes?) Shit, there’s nothing wrong with a man learning game to get laid, and if any man is embarrassed enough about that idea that he can’t even admit it to himself, then perhaps he needs to engage in some self examination and a reassessment of his priorities in life.… Read more »

Marellus
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It’s much the same way one can tell a dominant man from a nondominant man in just a few moments of watching them.

Ahem, didn’t think I’d see that line, did you ?

Sorry my darling, you’ll just have to explain this a bit further, because if you don’t …

… I’m gonna voodoo you into selling monstrous ice-creams, to yamerring little kiddies in Disney Land …

… wearing nothing but a stinking hot Mickey Mouse costume.

ImmoralGables
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ImmoralGables
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The discussions and dialogue on Rational Male vis the commentariat has been incredible over the past few weeks.

To all the newbies getting unplugged and reading this, realize that the manosphere is engaging in something special. Scour the comments on Rollos site recently.

All good stuff.

I.G.

koevoet
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koevoet
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Alpha and beta are easy references for superior and inferior. There really isn’t going to be a solid way of verifying it, and I honestly don’t think there needs to be a firm definition. When dealing with canines and apes you can specify which animal is “the” alpha and which ones are beta, gamma, omega, etc. In humans you can roughly point these out but it will be very subjective. It is an interesting mental exercise to try and define alpha and beta but as you said, which traits help you succeed are the most important thing to concern yourself… Read more »

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unbowed
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unbowed
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Heard a definition of alpha recently that it’s whoever is most dominant in a given situation. It depends on context. E.g. at an art opening, it might be the art critic in a motorcycle gang, it’s the gang leader. But put the art critic in the m. gang and the g. leader at the art opening and they’re fish out of water. Of course if you’re used to being dominant in one area that tends to bleed into other areas of your life. So getting better with women (more alpha) may lead you to being more dominant in other areas.… Read more »

Sam Spade
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Sam Spade
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I’d never deny the existence of biologically-determined social hierarchy – and I’m embarrassed that you thought I sounded equalist. The hierarchy exists but it’s not 100% fixed from birth. Maybe learned game is “cheating” but the bottom line is the learning and executing of it happens, and the former chump doing it successfully has hopefully moved himself up a few notches. I don’t think he’s screwing up the biological plan because he had to have the manhood to admit failure, implement change, and get laid. Anyway a natural could have just as easily tripped up at 13 or 14 and… Read more »

Apollo
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Apollo
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An easy reference for superior? That’s yet another definition for Alpha distinct from the ones I already mentioned. And yet another way for someone to misinterpret you if you tell them something or someone is Alpha. They’re superior? Superior in what way? Or do you actually mean that they are good at attracting women? Or maybe you mean that they are masculine? Or socially dominant? Call me pedantic if you like, but the primary means of our communication here in the Manosphere is via written (sometimes spoken) English, and when communicating in that fashion the meaning of words actually matters.… Read more »

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[…] The Rational Male – Backwards To Zero […]

anon
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anon
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It’s late so I didn’t read the whole post, but I suspect you’re missing the forest for the trees. Arguments over what is/isn’t beta is little more than misdirected anger by those who aren’t articulate/introspective enough to air their true grievances. The real reason alpha/beta rubs a lot of guys the wrong way is because this dichotomy implies dominance over other men. I never thought I would employ the term “loaded language”, but it seems to fit the bill quite right here. Never forget that real power (which is ultimately at the heart of everything we discuss in this corner… Read more »

derthal
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derthal
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“And I don’t know about you guys, but I can assure you that any man who’s success with women would have him attempt to assert his dominance over me would face the prospect of having to back up his “alpha creds” with his fists. Are you sure you want to go down that road, Alpha Male?”

“One’s ability to court-jester his way into a woman’s bed does not an Alpha Male make. Not in 2012.”

You have to decide whether you live in XXI century and take advantage of social skills (or learn some) or would fight for dominance like muskox.

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[…] alphas blogging about tall & hunkee alpha’s blogs  gives ya more alpha-goodness provided YOU are buff. and hot and alpha too. GAME: Because It […]

koevoet
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koevoet
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Apollo, we are pretty much in agreement. What I mean by “superior” is in the situations discussed (getting laid) the alpha traits are the ones that are generally aspired to whereas the beta traits are to be avoided, i.e. they are “inferior”. Perhaps I am just adding another definition, but this one allows me to get my head around the info, it is a placeholder for me. On this site there are a number of traits that are to be desired, effective tactics (like plate-spinning), and things to be avoided (buffers, allowing an LJBF, being an emotional tampon, etc.). When… Read more »

Sam Spade
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Sam Spade
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Holy Shit, I’m an idiot. I didn’t realize Rollo already broke down the Roosh post and did a great job besides. Well, never mind….LOL

Wilson
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Wilson
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He has heard it all, and besides having lost patience, knows the best way to shut up morons is to brutally skull fuck them, leaving the crowd in gape-jawed astonishment.

Randy
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Randy
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“A guy who spends his life obsessing over climbing the corporate ladder to get more attention from women is a loser. A guy who spends his life obsessing over mastering guitar and playing in a rock band to get more attention from women is a loser. A guy who spends his life obsessing over pursuing financial rewards and acquiring resources to get more attention from women is a loser. A guy who….. ah, you get the point.” Yes, guys that do those things for those reasons are losers, just like guys who obsess over getting girls and write all about… Read more »

AP
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AP
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What is the female imperative in a few words?

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