Filibuster

ThirtyzDude from the SoSuave forum has just recently seen the light of pragmatism with regards to Spinning Plates. For me, one of the best things about the newly Unplugged is reading their fresh perspective of women’s behaviors in their, now, Game-aware context. Sometimes their fresh observations come as a jolt to their system. They realize, with some measure of shock, that the behaviors and rationales they’ve been conditioned to take for granted on for so long are actually strategies to insure the best hypergamic result for women.

Other times, their observations are truly revelatory,..

I’ve been noticing an interesting trend with many of these women: the ones that are willing to have sex within 3-6 dates typically don’t talk about it – when it happens it happens. When they talk about sex a lot, and try to convince me that they really like sex, it often doesn’t happen. They begin to make excuses, they say they want me but they don’t want to do anything they regret. My thoughts when this happens: wtf?

I partially covered this dynamic in the now infamous Wait For It? post:

If  she’s perceiving your value as as high as it should be, she wont hesitate longer than a few dates to become sexual – and she certainly wont tell you she’s making you wait. Hypergamy doesn’t afford a woman much waiting time with a Man she sees as superior stock.

One of the more frustrating situations I often encounter comes from guys who’ve been OVERTLY told that they’re being made to wait for sex until some circumstance or criteria is met for the woman. The standard filibuster (or loss-leader as the case may be) usually comes with the reasoning that she “needs to feel comfortable” before she has sex with a guy. Even more distressing is the guy who was getting laid, only to be told the same thing by an existing girlfriend. If you find yourself in either of these situation there are a couple of things to bear in mind.

Filibustering

If you find yourself at 2am with a woman you want to bang or, God forbid, a group of women who want to go out for pizza or tacos (usually to sober up) after dancing at the club, understand, you’re being filibustered. When a woman has minty fresh breath and is one drink in, you’ll be getting laid, however, you will not be having sex with a woman when she’s full of pizza, coming down from a buzz and her breath smells like garlic.

I can remember a time in my twenties when I had a policy of never taking a woman I wanted to bang out for dinner. This was partially due to me being broke most of the time, but also because I found that the girls who suggested such-and-such restaurant as a date venue were never up for sex that night. These were typically the girls who “wanted to know I wanted them for more than just sex.” If you ever hear a woman utter that sentence, know that it’s a prime example of a filibuster. It sounds like prudence – she wants to vet you for boyfriend status – but the truth is she’s putting you off while she waits to see what her other 3rd (or 4th or 5th) party options might develop into.

Women with a high interest level wont confuse you, but if she’s not thoroughly convinced of your status a woman will generally default to some form of filibuster. This goes back to the medium being the message for women, however, for men, one of the more confusing strategies of hypergamy is the female filibuster because it appears to promise a future reward if a guy is patient enough to wait for it.

Girls don’t talk about the sex that they’re going to have – they talk about the sex they’re not going to have.

ThirtyzDude makes an astute filibuster observation in his post; the more a woman talks about sex and tries to convince you of how much she likes sex, the less likely she is to actually want to have sex – with you. There’s a certain self-convincing that goes along with this for women who’ve already assessed for themselves that they will not be fucking you. The necessity to convince themselves, and you, that they are in fact sexual conflicts with the subliminal assessment that they don’t want to bang you.

Like ThirtzyDude I discovered that the women who were going to be sexual (DTF) didn’t feel the need to prove to themselves, and me by proxy, that they liked sex. This isn’t to say the DTF women didn’t talk dirty or act flirty, but their sexual interest was communicated by covert innuendo, never overt declarations. In other words the sale was assumed and we could progress on to verbal foreplay, not brinksmanship.

There’s a trite cliché that guys like to assume about women; a woman knows within five minutes of meeting you if she’ll bang you. I don’t necessarily agree with this notion, but I do think that a woman knows within five minutes of meeting you if she WONT bang you. You’ll often see this played out when women insert casual filibusters into conversation about having a boyfriend (boyfriend disclaimer) with guys who’ve too blatantly telegraphed their over-interest in becoming intimate with her. Attraction is not a choice, but too many guys think that it could be if they were convincing enough.

Generally, women who enjoy sex don’t go about advertising it, they just do it. I’ve stated before, a woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. That may seem like a simple matter of logistics, but a woman who wants to bang you will find ways to fuck you that include self-rationalization, denial and lies of omission in order to bang you when her interest level is such that she’s motivated.

When a woman, and in particular one whom you’ve yet to bang, overtly explicates how much she enjoys sex, in essence she’s playing a slut by proxy. The strategy is to convince men she’s just as sexual as the women she doesn’t feel comfortable competing against. She can’t, or wont, match a “slut” by playing her game in real life, but she can allude to her alleged sexuality safely behind a filibuster. The real conflict arises when it comes time to have sex and her bluff is called.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Leap of a Beta
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Eh. My experiences have been mixed. I think that her talking about sex and how much she likes it is an indicator based largely on the context of location and surrounding. The three times that I’ve been drinking one on one on the patio, with women I hadn’t slept with yet, where conversation has turned to sex…. I closed that same night. One it was the first night knowing her. One was a temporary room mate for the summer that I’d been flirting with. One a friend from high school I hadn’t seen since. I personally think the conversations were… Read more »

Love's Orphan
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Love's Orphan
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One of the things i changed after unplugging was looking at the actions. I remember several women telling me that their friends like or love and me believing them even though the friend never showed an ounce of that “love”. A few weeks ago, a coworker sat next to me. She is ok looking. We talked about work related stuff. I tend to use kino on coworkers regularly. Suddenly, she changed subject and began talking about how much she likes sex. My gut told me something was wrong. Her body language didnt say the same about sex. Maybe i made… Read more »

Sam Spade
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Recently unplugged guys tend to confuse the Filibuster with the garden-variety shit test. A woman who finds you attractive will still challenge you in order to filter you out if you’re an AFC fraud. Filibustering, however, is not a shit test. (Or, it is, but it’s not worth trying to get around it.) A lot of guys see it as “playing hard to get” or sending “mixed messages.” Like the post says, sexual attraction will be telegraphed one way or another and a well-schooled DJ will receive and interpret the message. But if sex (the act) is not happening physically… Read more »

ImmoralGables
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ImmoralGables
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Rollo, Great stuff but what should a man do when he gets filibustered. I couldn’t find a solution in your article. I was filibustered twice in the past couple months and one of the girls specifically said that “She wasn’t comfortable yet”. I took her on another date and boffed her that night and I knew what she meant when she said it (thanks to your site). However please help us out and let us know a good move to pull, line to use or attitude to have when the filibuster comes out. (nexting, flipping the script, saying you want… Read more »

A1
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A1
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yup that’s good classic rollo putting female behaviorisms on display

Joe
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Joe
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I’d distinguish between a woman who is traditionally moral, chaste and forthcoming about it, and a woman who says “yes, but.”

The fillibuster girl falls into that category of “we’ve established what you are, madam; now we’re just haggling price.”

On the other hand, LoLo Jones… I’d be willing to wait until wedding night to hit that. A woman who is conscientiously moral, willing to give up a lot of fun carousel rides, in order to give herself more fully to her husband in a Marriage 1.0 model? That’s worth the wait.

Rollo Tomassi
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Unfortunately Lolo is fruit that’s rotting on the vine.

https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/12/23/late-term-virgins/

gregg
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gregg
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Do not give a fuck about her and do not give a fuck what woman talks about. Either you are fucking her or she has no value. Either she sucks your cock or facilitates your mission some other way or she is nothing. And even if you are fucking her she has still only the value that corresponds to things she is doing for you right there and right now. If she behaves, ok. If not, her value drops – she has NO value. Sorry to be so mean but this is simple rule that used to be known and… Read more »

Team-Red
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Team-Red
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I learned to always be escalating towards the bang awhile back after dating a woman that made me jump through hoops for a month before giving me the LJBF speech. I was disgusted with myself for wasting the time I did on her it changed my entire dating life. Now I escalate immediately, make my intentions known, and waste little time/money trying to get them naked. If there’s no bang by date 3-4 you’re not her #1 option so Next. Catch 22 is if I can bed them quickly I automatically dismiss her from relationship material and next her after… Read more »

gregg
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gregg
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yeah.

jimmy
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jimmy
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Maybe filibustering could be also seen as a form of beta bait (higher order) to keep them orbiting a little longer with seemingly too good to be true, but ultimately – empty promises (tailored just right to the minds of the plugged in). A neat little tactic for the plate spinning attention whore in any women.

blackbirdyoung
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I agree with a point you’ve brought up here, from experience as well. For the most part, when girls I’ve ended up banging brought up sex it was by all means a shit-test, and a blatantly obvious one at that. A shit-test I learned to pass before I knew what Game or shit-tests were. But, girls who I haven’t (or wouldn’t have) banged who’ve brought up sex only did so after I’d friend-zoned myself for the most part; when they were comfortable, or we were just having a conversation about it in general. But in that blurry not-yet friend-zone region… Read more »

Hero
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Hero
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Can you expand on what you mean by “momentum”? Do you mean her momentum toward you? Or your momentum on your own path? Please elaborate.

FFY
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FFY
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A girl that genuinely believes in morals and all that shit finds *covert* ways to make you wait.(yes there are still some out there) Pulling your hand up when you try and escalate downstairs is a prime example. Usually accompanied by a somewhat embarrassed smile and “not yet”. The passion will still be there, she is just watching her boundaries. Yeah it’s crap and you’ll bang her eventually, but whatever. But if she is laying out terms and conditions and qualifiers, like not until N dates or not until this or that, get the fuck out. Like you always say,… Read more »

Leap of a Beta
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I’ve been thinking about this while working and want to add something about the method of conversation on top of the situation. Took me a bit of reflection as two of the three bangs I got were pre red pill and a ton of the friend zone ones were as well. If she drops any names, any at all no matter how minor, quickly, or subtly hinting she’s talking of a specific person; you have a high powered friend zone shield to burst through. Or a super shit test to pass. If she leaves it generalized, no names, no specific… Read more »

ImmoralGables
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ImmoralGables
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Hey LEap of a Beta how does one go about passing such a shit test? You guys keep bringing it up but I find no answers.

Leap of a Beta
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What I did was calmly escalate the conversation. For me each time it was on a patio, with the seating arranged that there was distance between us but facing one another as we spoke and drank. Before the conversations I was escalating kino every time I could, but during the patio conversations there was none. Would have been awkward to try, plus it makes for a nice lull in the kino so that she doesn’t get over saturated. As the conversation turned to sex, I basically stayed the same level of interest and excitement as I had the rest of… Read more »

Deep Dish
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Deep Dish
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A week and a half ago, I picked up a chick in a nightclub, made out with her, and banged her within five days. I’ve banged her two more times, with more on the way. The first bang happened so spontaneously. I was just sitting on her couch, doing my thing with her, and at one point she just got up, walked into her bedroom, and then stood in the doorway, naked. Not one word spoken. After the bang, she stood up and nervously said, “OMG, you now must think I’m a slut,” which I calmly assured her I don’t.… Read more »

xsplat
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xsplat
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The go to move for resistance is to just acknowledge what she says, with an “uh huh”, but then act like you didn’t hear it, and escalate kino until she stops you. When she stops you you can back off and wait for her to come to you. Rinse and repeat. You don’t even have to verbally acknowledge her words. You can just back off. Either way you are relentless. As long as she doesn’t stand up to get away from your tentacles, she is telling you to continue. Basically ignore her words and work on getting her body aroused.… Read more »

The One Reason
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The One Reason
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Heh, something like?: A couple of years ago, a chick working at a spa I’d attended, rather timid, very feminine, but clearly piqued. Although new, she already knew a lot about me and I also had a good rapport with the other masseuse there. As I asked her to accompany me to an ice show (yeah, a beta game country, this), she immediately blurted out her approval in a relieved voice. Which fitted my profile that she wasn’t in the greatest of demands, even with a face/body rate of 8/9 (stylish+slim+Sculpted Ass). THEN she started flaking and back-pedalling within a… Read more »

The One Reason
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The One Reason
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Ms: “Oh I know what you’re thinking about, sex,” (HTML works?)
Mr: “Have you suddenly become a mindreader?”
A neg + the truth.

Mac
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Mac
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Joe is going in the right direction: “I’d distinguish between a woman who is traditionally moral, chaste and forthcoming about it, and a woman who says “yes, but.”” Analyze the context of the situation. Is she saying “I luvvvvv sex but we have to wait until I’m comfortable” when you’re out to drinks/dinner/whatever…or when she’s straddling you on your couch, topless (like the last girl I dated). The first girl is using you. The second probably isn’t, since it’s a rare girl who will be alone and topless with a guy she doesn’t want to bang. Moral of the story:… Read more »

blackbirdyoung
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“If she drops any names, any at all no matter how minor, quickly, or subtly hinting she’s talking of a specific person; you have a high powered friend zone shield to burst through. Or a super shit test to pass.” Excellent point. If she brings up fucking a dude you know or are friends with, just act like Leap of Beta describes but then stop wasting your time with her for a while. If you really want to fuck her you’ve got to become a sexual being again in her eyes, one she wants to pursue, or is curious about… Read more »

blackbirdyoung
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Where’s the PUA’s Guide to Unearthing Pure Women, Virgin’s, Unicorn’s, & Non-Whore’s of a Legal Age to Game & Deflower Guide?

I’d like to meet a girl with morals; at least, one that follows them consciously. It’d certainly – doubtlessly – manifest a manhamster & corresponding wheel to begin to spin within me.

God help me.

Leap of a Beta
Guest

I like your point about using the girl as a pivot. I don’t have very much experience with it, only been able to do it once. From that and watching others do it, it seems you need to make it clear that you’re sexual, you’re friendzoning her, but enjoy her hot friends. All very difficult to accomplish without messing it up. Sound congruent with your experiences?

Michael Maier
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I don’t get it. What pun?

ImmoralGables
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ImmoralGables
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Thank you xsplat

Michael Maier
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I like that approach because it rather kills any real deniability on her part that she didn’t want it to happen. When you make her want to rip off your clothes, the hamster can spin but who will listen to its squeaks?

That, and it’s a lot of fun to have her pull you to her in lusty frustration after you tease the hell out of her.

It’s also a good way to see if there’s no chemistry. If she’s not responding to the hot & heavy teasing, it’s probably time to move on.

ImmoralGables
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ImmoralGables
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Good stuff thanks guysables

blackbirdyoung
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Yeah, I think that sound’s about right.

I have more to say at some point, but I’ve been writing a lot today.

It’s hard to know how to write about any of this without sounding like an arrogant asshole boasting of his exploits; or without giving oneself away, ya know?

I’m probably much like you Leap of Beta. Much like the most of us. Not quite Alpha but not necessarily Beta. Just somewhere in between depending.

Guysables – that’s good stuff.

blackbirdyoung
Guest

Also, the name thing – again, that’s like fucking dead on though; ‘cept sometimes it’s not saying they’ve done anything directly, but hinting that they are curious about it, because someone else did, or something like that. It’s almost always & only been specifically the name of someone they know I despise. Usually the one competitor I have in those situations; always the biggest fucking tool – someone who is exactly like I was at some point in my life, hence I know everything he’s pulling at predict swiftly his every move – down to a science with some of… Read more »

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nathanlarson3141
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I also have seen times when girls would talk about sex before doing it. In fact, that’s happened every time I’ve gotten laid. A girlfriend told me that we’d have sex after she got on birth control. Actually, she ended up banging me and THEN getting on birth control. A girl who lived 1,600 miles way said that we’d have sex after she drove across the U.S. to be with me. A week later, she arrived at my house, and we had sex. A girl from the Philippines told me she’d had sex with me after I flew overseas to… Read more »

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