The Honor System

“An unfamiliar feeling for one of you, but a horribly familiar feeling for the other.”

The concept of Honor that men began has been made to serve a feminine purpose. I have no doubt that the principle of honor dates back from as long ago as we can track human civilization, but like so many other social foundation Men have instituted, the feminine will covertly position them to their own purpose.

In the introduction to the Art of Seduction author Robert Greene explains why there was an original need for seduction to be developed into an art. For this we can look back to ancient civilizations where women were essentially a commodity. They had no OVERT external power to control their fates, but they excelled (and still do) at COVERT psychological internal power, and this of course finds a parallel in men and women’s preferred communication methods. The feminine’s primary agency has always been sexuality and manipulating influence by its means.

Much in the same way that each gender communicates, so too is their method of interacting within their own gender. As Men we’re respected when we keep our word, sacrifice ourselves for a worthy cause (even to the point of disposability), solve problems rationally, our word is our bond, and a whole host of other qualifiers that make us respectable and worthy of integrity. We must be OVERT and above board; and when we encounter a man who is COVERT in his dealings we call him ‘shifty’ and think him untrustworthy. Even for the most noble of purposes, practicing the art of misdirection is not something men are respected for – at least not publicly.

It’s just this overt masculine interactive nature that women are only too ready to exploit. In combination with their sexual agency and influence they use this overt male social interactive dynamic to position themselves in places where they can use indirect power. Cleopatra was an excellent example of this – sending armies to war by appealing to powerful men’s pride and honor, while reserving her sexuality as a reward. Virtually every Feminine Social Convention is rooted in appealing to, or attacking male social institutions – a dedication to an idealistic sense of honor being chief among them. The obvious example is of course “shaming” and the “do-the-right-thing” social contract.

In fact to be a “Man” has become synonymous with living up to a feminine imperative that’s cleverly disguised as masculine Honor. It’s not that women created Honor, but rather that they’ve recreated it to serve their purpose. In the Biblical Ten Commandments we’re told not to commit adultery – don’t sleep with another man’s wife – which probably wasn’t too hard to abide by when polygamy was the norm. In fact multiple wives was a sign of affluence, it used to be the conspicuous consumption of the epoch. Why then is polygamy a social perversion now? What changes occurred that made polygamy honorable (even enviable) into a very evil taboo?

Along with language and culture, social conditions evolve. What we think of as Honorable today are the result of centuries molding. It’s very easy to romanticize about times when Honor among Men reigned supreme, and then lament the sad state of society today in comparison, but doing so is a fools errand. Honor in and of itself is, and should be, a foundation for Men, but it’s only useful when we understand it in the perspective of how it can be used against us.

Man Up or Shut Up – The Male Catch 22

One of the primary way’s Honor is used against men is in the feminized perpetuation of traditionally masculine expectations when it’s convenient, while simultaneously expecting egalitarian gender parity when it’s convenient.

For the past 60 years feminization has built in the perfect Catch 22 social convention for anything masculine; The expectation to assume the responsibilities of being a man (Man Up) while at the same time denigrating asserting masculinity as a positive (Shut Up). What ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine responsibility, yet any aspect that disagrees with feminine primacy is labeled Patriarchy and Misogyny.

Essentially, this convention keeps beta males in a perpetual state of chasing their own tails. Over the course of a lifetime they’re conditioned to believe that they’re cursed with masculinity (Patriarchy) yet are still responsible to ‘Man Up’ when it suits a feminine imperative. So it’s therefore unsurprising to see that half the men in western society believe women dominate the world (male powerlessness) while at the same time women complain of a lingering Patriarchy (female powerlessness) or at least sentiments of it. This is the Catch 22 writ large. The guy who does in fact Man Up is a chauvinist, misogynist, patriarch, but he still needs to man up when it’s convenient to meet the needs of a female imperative.

In contemporary society we have a very different understanding of what Honor was, or was intended to be initially. One of the psychological undercurrents I see in most AFCs is a strong, self-righteous dedication to a very distorted conviction of Honor. A main tenet being an unearned, default respect for women; essentially an unearned Honor placed on a woman for no other reason than she’s female. We learn this (usually) from the time we’re children, “never hit a girl”. Naturally, this has only been ferociously encouraged by the feminine since Victorian times because it served a latent purpose right up until on demand (feminine exclusive) birth control was offered, and then prompted the sexual revolution.

Today, we still have women using the anachronism that is male Honor in a manner that serves their interests, but it’s contrasted with a sexually emphasized opportunism. A Man’s responsibility should be “Honoring” her as ‘the fairer sex’ while recognizing her ‘independence’. The AFC gobbles this stuff up and in an effort to better identify himself with her ideals he begins to convince himself that he’s unique in that he better exemplifies this false-virtue, this feminine defined sense of Honor than “other guys”.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Issac Jordan
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Issac Jordan

Fantastic post, Rollo. As much as I enjoy Roissy/Roosh, I’m beginning to enjoy your blog even more. IMO the psychological insights and conceptual explanations of societal trends and practices can contribute just as much to a full understanding of women as Game and its related tactics. Growing up, my father would constantly reprimand me for not “respecting” my sister (i.e. not holding the door for her, not letting her take the first slice of pizza, arguing with her, etc.). I remember being so frustrated at his inability to explain WHY she deserved such treatment; it just so happened that she… Read more »

Strip8Tom
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Strip8Tom

Rollo, do you think that honor has a genetic component, or is learned or socialized into men?

It seems to me that honor may be a very recently developed “virtue”. I don’t imagine 20,000 years ago how being “honorable” would help a mans mating prospects. The concept was certainly around by the time of ancient Rome and Greece though, look at how warriers were held in high honor.

Perhaps religion was the main thing pushing honor. Or Alpha males pushing it onto Beta males in attempt to control them.

just visiting
Guest
just visiting

I suspect that honor is a warrior social code that extended out to society. Politeness was extended by the end of a sword. An armed society was a polite society. Even a hand shake in this day in age has its roots in it.

Chivalry is hard to fathom now because we don’t really understand the subtext. It was practiced by powerful and dangerous men. Take away the edge of danger, and we lose something in translation. It also was not extended to all women. There was a social contract aspect to it.

Y
Guest

I imagine honor has its roots in reciprocity which is very ancient in human species.

It’s the ability to step outside yourself and see things from someone else’s perspective and act in a way that benefits both parties. It allowed humans to share and trade resources.

Rollo Tomassi
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Rollo Tomassi

I think honor is really an aggrandized and romanticized notion of what was really a pretty simple concept – mutual cooperation. I think honor began when our species moved beyond exclusively throwing rocks at each other and discovered that 5 or 6 guys with sharp sticks could pull down a wooly mammoth working in unison and they all ate much better than fucking around with small game in the forest by themselves. Rudimentary Honor requires the mutual faith to comply with an agreement to have my back if I have yours. If one or two of those 6 hunters bolts… Read more »

A Recovering Frustrated Chump
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A Recovering Frustrated Chump

This is a truly great post. As a lifelong but now recovering AFC, I find that this post perfectly captures the situation that I find myself in. I keep hearing about how western society is still very male-dominated and patriarchal, yet I feel powerless as a man — particularly in my own LTR. You hit it on the nose with the statement “The expectation to assume the responsibilities of being a man (Man Up) while at the same time denigrating asserting masculinity as a positive (Shut Up). What ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s… Read more »

donlak
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Honor is and was essentially keeping a promise. The honorable thing to do in order to gain praise and respect, ie a strong warriors honor is to fight for his country, not because his country is great, (he may become a soldier to do that) but because he promised it. Upholding commitments is honorable. It’s also dishonorable to beat on a frail old man or a smaller man, child or woman, if you. are stronger than them or significantly larger. There’s no honor in that, honor is the masculanized virtue. Both are the same. Girls lose there virtue, the deal… Read more »

MacAgent
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MacAgent

another fantastic post Rollo. Really enjoyable reading this week.

(you can see it in her eyes at 1:05)

Good Luck Chuck
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Good Luck Chuck

The church, the state, and women are all out to control and channel masculine energy as a means to their own ends. There is no big conspiracy- it’s just that it is so easy to dupe men into doing your bidding with the prospect of sex that all of these groups would be stupid not to take advantage of it. Want to be successful with women? All you have to do is co-opt their game. Turn shit around on them. Seduction is ALL about displaying higher relative value, and the best way to display value is to demonstrate to women… Read more »

Deep Dish
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Deep Dish

Do you mean 1:15?

houseofjacques
Guest

It is so easy to dupe me.
Sadly, it is so true.

theprivateman
Guest

A man’s word is his bond.

It’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind.

Odds
Guest
Odds

Only a fool would split in that game. I would be fine leaving without any money, considering it was all a gift in the first place. The man should have read one of Aesops fables: The Scorpion and the Frog A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” The scorpion says, “Because if I do, I will die too.” The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion… Read more »

Average Joe
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Average Joe

Imagine those were two men playing that game. Rollo, would you assert that the one who lost the money in this case is Beta, as he showed too much Honor, exposed his emotions and was too honest? Does that mean that the winner who “stole” the money would be Alpha, by your definition? Or someone who will ultimately get his due via thousand tiny cuts, as his heavy conscience weighs on him every time he spends the money portion that he “stole” on the gameshow? In my opinion, living with honor is Alpha. No attachment to outcome (not even money… Read more »

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[…] things fit into their perspective, it’s something more than that. For men with some sense of honor or duty there also comes with it a need to enforce a perception of morality. Understanding the evo-psych […]

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[…] into a form of masculine control while still an being a required masculine obligation. It’s a Catch 22 – screwed if you do, screwed if you don’t, and there are two conflicting perspectives for […]

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[…] are also cleverly making plays to a shame based  Male Catch 22 – Man Up or Shut Up dynamic. As in the Dodge Charger ad, men are uniquely EXPECTED to suffer through a lifetime of […]

K_C
Guest
K_C

I’m with you Recovering. I could have written your exact comment myself without hardly changing a thing. Now, to just continue to enlist more men and get them to have the same revelation…

aeroster
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aeroster

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2087585/Cruise-ship-Costa-Concordia-sinking-Whatever-happened-women-children-first.html
i wonder why the one who wrote the above article doesnt find it disgraceful that a higher percent of rescued are women compared to children.lumping women with children is a joke,n if women had any pride they’d feel disgraced to be labelled so,as this shows they can enevre grow up n shouldnt be given adult rights n power.feminists who want to argue for women participation in major societal developments should take note their kind has to give up kiddy protection,n not hog both sides of benefits in a shameless way

aeroster
Guest
aeroster

chivalry is a concept of medieval times,n it doesnt even mean just giving way to women.besides,its a thing of knights,NOT all common men.the way people wana impose this on others is just ludicrous.feminists go about condemning victorian standards for women,yet why dont they admit chivalry is an equally outdated standard which has no place in today’s world?or that,at least,it needs be redefined to suit today’s times n roles people play? hence for such various reasons,i dont believe a word women rights groups say anymore.if i were president i’l shut them down.only human,children rights n animal rights groups should exist.even when… Read more »

aeroster
Guest
aeroster

refering to the aforementioned article,its utterly idiotic that more women rescued means chivalry,more men rescued means disgraceful.that your definition of equality,u fecking women right groups??if uve no respect for men,dont expect the men to respect u either.respect has always been a mutual thing.if u women can claim superiority,so can the men,n there will never be a resolution

aeroster
Guest
aeroster

telling children boys never to hit a girl is just encouraging weaker boys to be bullied.why,does a girl have the right to be weak n protected,but a boy doesnt have a righht to fall under that category?just the same as drafting n exclusion of women from caning.
the way women behave n dress these days,especially the latter,what with all the junk fashion,especially jorts,i find women are so NOT the fairer gender anymore.

aeroster
Guest
aeroster

and do they tell strong girls never to hit a boy,just for fairness sake?

aeroster
Guest
aeroster

especially rotten are those parasite people who attempt to ride the feminism wave n condemn anyone saying anything negative concerning any groups of women,justified though what they say are.no matter how u explain urself to such parasites,they will accuse u of sexism,even though its their own personal attacks which are the real shameless sexist comments.just search up nusfp,about this scum called blueballs.he/she is a dramaqueen n a downright fibber to the core.

unscathed
Guest
unscathed

Hear, Hear! Sir.

I was unplugged in January, New years day to be exact. I’m still struggling with the harsh reality of the way things really are. The greatest thing I have learned to begin doing is living for myself, and to also become more selfish.

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[…] the reactionary tact of the feminine imperative; appeal to the deeply conditioned moral, ethical, honorable, virtuous ideals engrammatically planted in men by a fem-centric society, while redefining the […]

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[…] women in other countries are ‘less powerful’ due to weak men preferring them. So the Catch 22 becomes a guy being dominant enough to master her as being the abuser, and the one pointing out her […]

tom smyth (@tomt45)
Guest

looks like over analyzed paranoia

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[…] The Honor System […]

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[…] Men push past pain for good reason – it is the key to growth into a healthy maturity. Men push past pain, not just a social expectation from other men, but because of the same expectations from women. It’s by necessity, not social pressure.Very few men fail to recognize their own pain, but a feminine mindset determined to vilify masculinity would rather we believe that not expressing that pain is always a net negative. The irony this mindset is oblivious of is that at the first mention of a man’s pain, at the first expression of his own self-concern… Read more »

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[…] The Feminine Imperative can’t be held responsible for men’s social ineptitudes so the Male Catch 22 is effected – as a man you’re a whiney beta if you complain, but you’re less than a […]

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[…] Imperative has made in making appeals to anachronistic idealisms like chivalry and honor in The Honor System. I then revisited this in a bit more detail after the Concordia shipwreck with the women and […]

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Regarding the video in the article above: never trust a woman.

According to how old he looks he should have known by now.

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[…] forerunners was the obvious choice for the feminine imperative. The feminine standard appeal to the Masculine Catch 22 was the first recourse: any man who desired to learn Game was less than a man for that desire, but […]

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[…] explained this previously as the Male Catch 22, but it’s important to understand that this Catch isn’t some unfortunate byproduct of […]

Tom
Guest
Tom

The Scorpion and the Frog Replies the scorpion: “Its my nature…” I’ve used this story many times to convey the true nature of things, usually to women and usually regarding my sexuality. I demand certain behavior. A relationships works best with me if the woman WANTS to give that behavior. It also works if the woman doesn’t mind behaving the way I want her to. But if she hates it, or it’s too difficult for her, I do not fight, argue or bargain. I surrender by letting her go. Once you let them go, they no longer have to do… Read more »

cyfox
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cyfox

Is this contradictory to conclusions here? http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~mrigdon/genderdiff_Rigdon.pdf “The Role of Expectations and Gender in Altruism”

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[…] The bigger picture in this Jezebel exchange is really about one of the most basic and useful social conventions ever devised by the Feminine Imperative – The Male Catch 22: […]

Liosis
Guest
Liosis

I think most woman find chivalry creepy actually

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[…] Artículo de Rollo Tomassi, The Rational Male […]

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[…] Man Up or Shut Up – The Male Catch 22 […]

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[…] as beatific a feminized model of masculinity as it needs to serve its purpose. With the aid of the Male Catch 22, blurring and distorting masculinity, raising and conditioning men to accept ambiguity and doubt […]

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[…] masculin féminisée et béatifique prêt a servir toutes ses volontés. Avec l’aide du Catch-22 Masculin, brouiller et déformer la masculinité, éduquer et conditionner les hommes à accepter […]

bo jangles
Guest
bo jangles

If you actually meet indians from tribes or even cultures strongly based in indian customs youll find that lying is common and expected and not really punished. you can have someone tell you a bald faced lie with no shame or selfconsciousness(something like red is blue). i think the truth is a modern invention..probably going along with farming. but even in the greeks i remember odyseus telling a fine spun lie to a disguised athena and her admiring his craftiness. american truthfulness is a rare beast.

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[…] explained this previously as the Male Catch 22, but it’s important to understand that this catch isn’t some unfortunate byproduct of […]

splooge
Guest
splooge

ya honor is meant to keep a binding contract among men and women. But now females want to break it while we are meant to up hold it. Lets try honor killing here as controverisal as it is. lets take out the feminist narative behind it since they know language controls thought. and have taken that or coined that term in a away that only affects women. Though one can argue its ego kiling since its similar to crime of passion cuz your feeling or ego was hurt. Or the mention its the one form of killing where they make… Read more »

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[…] The horse will work harder. His wife may have lost respect for him by this point, but his sense of honor and duty press him on. He doesn’t want to be like his oppressive or non-present father was. […]

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[…] the new set of books, in a feminine-centric social order, the strengths of that male idealism, love honor and integrity are made to serve the purpose of the Feminine Imperative. Men’s idealistic love […]

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[…] this new age of proactive and reactive cuckoldry, men are expected to put up and shut up with playing the role of one or the other. In our thread conversation about cuckold fetishes the […]

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

To oppose is to support

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[…] sees what he wants and goes out and boldly gets it. The problem is that this attitude gets tied to The Male Catch 22 and any derivation is compared with […]

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[…] now we come to the standard appeal to the Male Catch 22 I described in The Honor System many years […]

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[…] what men do. Say what you mean and stick to it, but as with most every uniquely male custom, Honor among men has been one more useful distortion of the Feminine […]

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[…] (enlace al original en ingles) […]

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[…] it needed some outreach to men. So, the predictable appeals to “real manhood”, the Male Catch 22 and the ever-present shaming of conventional masculinity had to follow. Men needed to declare, […]

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

Dalrock
http://wp.me/pXWyH-bdc

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[…] their own impulses according to feminine-primacy. As you might guess, this coincides with the Male Catch 22, men’s Burden of Performance and men being held to old order social contracts while also […]

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[…] masculinity itself. While it may be a pleasant fiction for men to apply terms like strength and honor and fidelity to male-kind, those concepts exist outside the evolved male-competitive nature. Kings […]

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[…] immediately beneficial to womankind. ‘Toxic’ masculinity was always characterized as Man Up or Shut Up […]

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[…] a form of Honor. He seems to play on the ‘Man Up / Shut Up’ dynamic I talked about in The Honor System. What ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine […]

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[…] as a form of Honor. He seems to play on the ‘Man Up / Shut Up’ dynamic I talked about in The Honor System. What ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine […]

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[…] had for a masculinity that could be exploited for its purposes. There was still a need for men to Man Up and Shut Up. To be sure, boys were (and are) still taught by the Village as if they were defective girls. Boys […]

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[…] had for a masculinity that could be exploited for its purposes. There was still a need for men to Man Up and Shut Up. To be sure, boys were (and are) still taught by the Village as if they were defective girls. Boys […]

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[…] the Honor System I proposed the […]

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[…] the Honor System I proposed the […]

Bernard Scotland
Guest
Bernard Scotland

What if Alfa and Beta are women’s invention?

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[…] Narracja o „toksycznej” męskości stworzyła jakościową różnicę pomiędzy feministycznie-akceptowalną formą męskości i potencjalnie groźną formą. Nie trzeba mówić, że akceptowalna forma zawsze składała się z aspektów męskości, które przydatne były rodowi kobiecemu. „Toksyczna” męskość zawsze była charakteryzowana w jeden sposób: […]

Starrcreative
Guest

As a woman, I’m frustrated by having to be part of a gender that espouses equality but forever seeks special recognition, special accommodations, special days, special care, special funding, special services – special special special. How can we ever be equal if we’re special? It’s embarrassing and has nothing to do with being equal. The female agenda seems to be about being powerful and for one party to be powerful, the other must be less so – how does that fit in with equality? I see shows like Ellen and I see men prancing around without shirts dressed like firemen… Read more »

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