Kill the Bunny

New Case Study today. Reader JAS at SoSuave wanted help with his most recent target (edited for length):

I am 42. So here is the deal.

I moved to a new city a year ago and started a new job. There is a 35 yr old, hot woman there who I will call D. D is hot- about a 7, very smart, cool etc. From the beginning we hit it off and we have always spoken and interacted with some flirtatious undertones.. but we work together. Much as I liked her, I was up to my neck in pussy all this year. Little by little we would talk about our dates etc. and just generally were cool.. but we never spoke outside of work or anything. I liked her but not so much that I felt the need to pursue.

About 2 months ago I noticed a change in her that coincided with a change in myself – we were upping the stakes mutually. She would come around and talk more to me, lingering, lots of eye contact. I started feeling the need to do the same. Things went on this way until eventually until 2 weeks ago I asked her to get a drink. She jumped at the chance. We met up that Friday and hung out. I was still unsure if I was interested enough to pursue her, but by the end of the evening it had all clicked. I LIKED her.. in a keeper sort of way. We ended our hanging out with a peck on the lips.

We met up at a work function the night after and weren’t able to do much, but we snuck some hand holding and another short kiss. She wanted to do brunch the next day, but I had a  birthday party for family Sunday and had to say no.

So back to work on Monday and due to our schedules wouldn’t be able to meet for a bit. Wednesday we both walked up to each other and she literally stamps her feet an says “I really want to see you!”. I said me too and that I would call her that night to meet up. Its was do or die, because she had a trip out of town and would be gone until this week. So I get home, text and …..nothing. No response until 10 pm saying she went jogging without her phone and met her sister for some errands. I was like WTF?

I played it off and said no big deal, but that I did find that confusing, could we meet tomorrow? she said she had tentative plans and wasn’t sure, but knew I wouldn’t hang around waiting so probably not. I didn’t respond.

Next day she is texting me and asking me questions all the time.. I responded late and only curtly as I sensed she was fishing to see if I was angry.

She went on her trip and when she got back on Tuesday, I played it cool and didn’t say much at all. I was polite but never brought any of it up. But I didn’t flirt much either.. Just being neutral.

So yesterday I was talking to her and decided to force her to either drop it or go for it. I went to her and said “go out with me”. She kind of hemmed and hawed but said she wanted to and Friday might be best. I said fine, but then she said that maybe she had to check on something to make sure. I remained cool and said, contact me and let me know.

I haven’t heard from her yet, but its still Thursday, so I decided to just leave the ball in her court.

What are my next steps? If she doesn’t call at all, I plan to not remind her about our plans at all. If she is interested, she will contact. If she doesn’t I plan a freeze out. But not sure what else to do.

This was JAS’s set-up situation. Later he developed a bit more:

I get to work today and she is walking in early. She comes to where I am and starts talking about the weather etc, as she talks I continue my trajectory towards the spot I sit at outside during my break. She realizes I am continuing on my path and starts walking and facing my direction. I am not overly talkative, but not acting all butthurt either, just chill. She eventually breaks and goes inside.

Later on, during the day she is insinuating herself into my conversations. Again, I am not being rude, or any different than usual, except I cut out the flirty vibe we always have and thats all. I notice her trying to read me throughout, kinda like “is he really ok, or is he secretly mad?”, but that may be projection on my part. Who knows what thoughts are in there.

As I get ready to head home, She corners me in the hallway, this is, more or less, the convo as I remember it

Her: I feel I’ve fucked this up. I should have called you but I’ve really been a mess lately.
Me: its cool, I had a feeling you weren’t feeling it and made other plans
Her: really? I mean, should we talk about this? Its always so weird talking here at work, I feel strange.
Me: I’m not sure what you mean. What is it you want to talk about exactly?
Her: this, us. I don’t know whats going on.
Me: if you like we can
Her: I give up, I don’t know what……..
Me: for me its simple, we are either feeling it, or we’re not. By your behavior my assumption is you are not. Or you would have made more of an effort. And if that is the case, Its ok.
Her: Are you feeling it still?
Me: are you? Look, we’re being crytpic, So let me show you how its done: Yes, I would like to get to know you, I made that clear by asking you out. I expect, if its mutual for you to follow through. If not, well..
Her: it is. We do need to get together. Cant we get together tomorrow? Doing things here at work is just always confusing. I feel weird here, its confusing.
Me: I have plans (I really do)
Her: this is ridiculous. Wednesday?
Me. Wednesday is fine.
Her: I can’t read you. You give me this look, I don’t know what it means. I give up
Me: grabbing her hand: It means I like looking at you. So wed? set?
Her: yes.
Me:good
Her:good!
We both walk away smiling.

This is the first stage for JAS. He gets a B- for performance thus far. The first exchange was weak – a peck on the cheek, hand holding, etc. sound like an episode of Hannah Montana. This is not how adults date. If I had to guess, it was his hesitancy to consolidate on getting more intimate with her that’s what gave her pause. When the green light’s on brother, drive the friggin car.

However, his recovery is what’s saved him. She is qualifying to him and in a big way, this is exactly how you want it. He handles himself maturely and with amused mastery when he’s not ‘on a date‘, he needs to transition that into getting intimate with her. Notice how she accepted his direction here:

Her: I can’t read you. You give me this look, I don’t know what it means. I give up
Me: grabbing her hand: It means I like looking at you. So wed? set?
Her: yes.
Me:good
Her:good!

This is the dominance a woman is expecting from you when you’re building up to having sex with her. He owns it when he’s not on a date, but needs to own it when he is. Hesitate and thou art lost. Go timid on her on Wednesday, play nice and don’t escalate to making out (or more) and she goes off to find the next Alpha she thought you were.

Thus far JAS had been Alpha at work and Beta on the date. Her confusion comes from initially ‘reading’ him as Alpha, but he didn’t close the deal.

This is what women mean when they say they “can’t read you”
Translation: “You’re sending me Alpha cues, but you pull back like a Beta when it’s time to get physical.”

Also, have a plan. You lead. Tell her where you’re going and what you’ll be doing. She enters your world, you don’t enter hers – from his last conversation this is how she wants it anyway. Be fearless. She wants a whirlwind, you need to be that whirlwind.

After the Wednesday ‘date’ JAS gives us an update:

Well, we got our coffee today. I think it was good and bad… not sure if it was more of one or the other.

We got a coffee because lunch was impossible for both of us. As we walked we talked a bit about BS, until I stopped her and said “lets talk about what we came here to talk about”
So we started in. She gave me the “I’m not sure about what to do” thing. “I like you- obviously- and I’m attracted to you, but this is really complicated for me”
Me: yeah I got that vibe.
Her: so I don’t know, some days I wake up and say I want to pursue this, and other days I wake and think “fuck it, I cant deal with it”. I know I’m going to regret it if I don’t”

And so I pulled out my favorite move. I LJBF her. I said “look, whatever we do we’re good. Lets just be friends then”.
Hit the mark, “really?” she asked looking disappointed. In short, she didn’t let it drop there. She started saying she was attracted to me, and felt a deep connection to me and that I really understood her, probably more than anyone.

By now we’re back within eyesight of our hosp. co-workers are in and out. We go back and forth talking about it all, and she says “I’m sad” I asked her why. She said she didn’t know. I tell her “I’m a little sad too” she asked me why. I said “for the same reason you are probably. There is something here” We go on like this for a bit.

This where I think I got one bad thing- and I immediately thought of Rollo. She says “but you’re not very aggressive
OUCH. I let it pass, mostly, but then it occurred to me “you make sure to keep us surrounded by people and never alone enough for me to do anything. You have your shields up, and you know it”
Her: yeah, your right. I’m scared of you, I think.

So I LJBFd her again. Basically I’m push pulling here, using the LJBF as a push every time I get something I don’t like.
Eventually, I say I have to go.. that I am leaving town. She says “tonight?” arent you driving?” I say “yes” she says I should wait until morning.

Is this an invitation to invite her out tonight? I’m still in LJBF mode with her. I say that was the plan, but I’ll see how I feel.
I then pulled her to me and kissed her, mind you, within view of potentially the entire hospital. So it wasn’t a major kiss, but it was on the lips and risky. Now she looks a bit confused – to be honest I am as well, since I am not sure if this is all good or not. Weird.
She then tells me again “I’m sad”
Me: dont be
her: no? why not?
Me: this isn’t over.
her: its not?
Me: no

So some good and bad here. The “your not aggressive” was a blow. I think I fended it off well though. I got her to admit alot, while maintaining frame, but its not where I would have wanted to go with this. Its about what I suspected. She is still scared to have a relationship, after what happened with her ex. I got her to tell me more about it all. etc. So I need outside imput here.

I also am of two minds of how to go here. I can try to get her to meet up again tonight- tell her I want to see her again before I go, etc. Or I can use the next two weeks vacation as a reset. Use it as an opportunity to work her via texts and having her miss me.

I believe she is being sincere as far as she can tell. Rollo is right she wants me to lead, but all the while making sure I can’t by blocking me out at every opportunity. I think I revealed alot of herself to her. I think she is being sincere when she said that I am a mystery to her, that she has never met someone like me. She says I am dark, and deep, and complex and she feels connected and attracted to me. And scared.

JAS, read what I’m about to write here carefully because it might help you with the next girl you meet after this one.

YOU NEED TO KILL THE FUCKING BUNNY!

Up to this point you’ve just been batting her around and confusing her with this coffee house, “safe-date shit. You’re not Gaming her or push-pulling her, or preempting anything with a LJBF.

“lets talk about what we came here to talk about”

Learn this now, you cannot negotiate desire. This is exactly what you’re doing here. You wanna fuck this woman? You wanna get some kind of relationship started?

STOP BROKERING THE DEAL.

Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. Genuine desire cannot be negotiated. Once you get past a certain point in the waiting game, what once had the chance to be an organic, sexual desire becomes mitigated negotiation of a physical act.

I feel like I’m reading a script between two kids from High School Musical. Take her on a ‘real date’. Go to a lounge, have cocktails, be indirect. Up to this point you’ve been overtly telegraphing your intent – this is the kiss of death. It’s like you’re writing up a proposal for a speculative relationship you might have if she signs the papers.

She is still scared to have a relationship, after what happened with her ex.

Yeah, my guess is this guy was the decisive Alpha you haven’t been with her, or if not she was hoping to find after the breakup. My advice to you is to chalk this one up to experience and NEXT her (workplace affairs are always a bad idea as it is). My readers will probably tell you she’s damaged goods, but if you insist on following through with this train wreck, stop being the PG rated JAS and start being the R rated JAS. Presume you’re dealing with an Alpha Widow and standing in her ex’s Alpha shadow.


48 responses to “Kill the Bunny

  • YOHAMI

    You’re not reading this girl well. Chances are she’s flirting with other dudes, and she went out on a date / fuck when she was suppossedly jogging. From down there it’s funny to see the guy try to catch up to her.

    Read this again:

    “Wednesday we both walked up to each other and she literally stamps her feet an says “I really want to see you!”. I said me too and that I would call her that night to meet up. Its was do or die, because she had a trip out of town and would be gone until this week. So I get home, text and …..nothing. No response until 10 pm saying she went jogging without her phone and met her sister for some errands.”

    1) She confesses her neediness. She really wants to “see” him. You think this is about dating and feelings? this is sex urge, plainly.

    2) I was do or die. What? date? holding hands? she’s leaving town… there’s urge, of what? sex.

    He gets home, texts her and… nothing? she went jogging… without a phone… and adds uninterested for a while, hinting that she fucked things up? fill the hole.

    So it is funny to see this dude catching up / qualifying / wondering where his game went wrong.

    It went wrong in that he didnt fuck her the first night. And that he didnt fuck her the first few months. And that he didnt fuck her right after she said “want to see you” etc. The fail is not being sexually assertive.

    She wasnt needy of him, she was just needy of attention. She’s 35 and open to fucking a guy in the office = she has done it before = she’s already doing it. There’s no innocence here.

    Fuck her already. Or dont.

  • Team-Red

    Exactly Rollo. This whole wishy/washy narrative screams fem-world dating reality. It’s all about reading her reading him and his intentions not being clear. She gets confused and eventually goes cold because he’s too clouded investing in her behavior. I’ve done this and learned as experience teaches best. Best advice is once the indicator is clear in her interest in you, be a man and go after what you want in her. Anything less and she questions your manhood in going after what you want.

    I do not blame this guy, it’s just a prime example of the reality in the dating world today dominated by fem-world.

  • tosin

    CAN THE MISTER BE CONSISTENT? PICK 1 ZONE AND STICK TO IT BEFORE ENTERING OTHER ZONES. CONFUSING THE POOR GIRL

  • YaReally

    I don’t know what you guys are talking about, this sounds like a fine healthy lesbian relationship between two women.

    …wait wut? one of them is a man??

    “Change her mood, not her mind.”

    You are not push/pull’ing anything. You aren’t leading. Literally all you’re doing is letting her dictate the frame/reality and following along. Like someone else said, you’re playing catch-up. She can’t decide so she just spitballs dawson’s creek drama at you. But instead of cutting the shit and just fucking her you’re like “oh DO tell me what happened on last night’s episode! Dawson did WHAT? With WHO? Omg!!”

    That’s why when you go “no shut up. Wednesday, be there.” she snaps to and shuts the TV in her head off and goes “yes sir!!”.

    You know how to kiss her at work? Just pull her by the hand into the nearest closet or stairwell or around the corner from your co-workers, pin her against the wall (hand behind her head remember lol) and make out with her for a few seconds then walk away and leave her there.

    She thought a work relationship would be hot and fun like in the movies and TV, that you’d be doing risky scandalous things and almost getting caught and it’d be so hot and sexual and passionate. Then you turn out to be the most boring version of that fantasy possible lol

    It’s like someone telling you they’re setting you up with a playboy model, you’re so psyched bring it on this’ll be awesome, and then she arrives and it turns out she was a centerfold in the 60s because now she is old and gross. That letdown you’d feel, that’s what she feels.

    Oh SoSuave, lol…you guys are so cute. Here’s a tip: quit trying to combine pickup with still being a Nice Guy (aka DJs). Just embrace being PUAs and come over to the dark side. We don’t have cookies but we have pussy.

    [Been preaching that for years now]

  • Kevin Anon

    Awesome Rollo, you’re absolutely right, and I know this because I went through the exact same thing. I lost the girl for the same reason. When you know it’s on, go for. Women are honest in their actions, but dishonest with the tongue (men are the converse). Frankly, she doesn’t know what she’s saying, because she doesn’t know what to think.

    Here’s another thing I learned: Don’t leave her to make the decision! Because she’s just going to end up deciding the safest thing, which is not to get involved with you. But the whole process of her going back and forth, and just feeling crappy about the whole “trying to decide” process, is just putting unnecessary trauma on her. And I say this going *against* the advice that my mom and my sister gave (I was immature back then) which was: You need to let her decide. Wrong answer: Women know shit about women.

    I’d like to know about the whole “Don’t shit where you eat” thing though. After the college years, for single guys, work sadly *does* constitute a large part of our social life. And there are plenty of couples out there who did meet at work (my parents for example). Guess I need to work on cold approach/pickup, but I definitely get warm feelings from girls at work.

  • YaReally

    Also, Mr Miyagi with wisdom for pickup in general. Think about how it relates to your situation and what everyone here is telling you:

  • YaReally

    One more vid to drive the point home. You are being a “permission boy”. Just take what you want. But first: KNOW what you want, cause it doesn’t sound like you do.

  • Coy

    Man.. It was only the second girl I gamed and was she hot.I wasnt really trying anything. She works in my office and coincidentally i ended up in her cabin.So she was eating something and I was’nt thinking anything and just talking.Looking back I was flawless with my negs( I asked why she isnt eating meat,she: blah blah,I : You can use some food on you), being non judgmental (I subtly hinted about college being the wild part of life…it was smoothly covert but nothing she wouldnt catch)…in 20 mins i get a doggy dinner bowl look. I hesitated and missed that bang.I didnt even know what DDBL was then damn… god I so want to shoot myself in the balls.She would have been my hottest.I really think its mostly an inner game issue with me.I need to believe in my value.

  • Coy

    It really is like that zen thing…..when you are not trying…aka outcome independent…you just are…it fucking works.try it and the house falls down

  • walawala

    I game girls in my social circle who deserve it and meet the criteria.

    I’m usually push-pull, indirect and then direct. Or if we spend time together i’m keeping it light with lots of teasing until they feel more comfort and then escalate.

    If i’m not getting enough IOI’s i don’t escalate.

    From this story, he’s got plenty of IOI’s. But the hesitation he’s feeling is being both overtly and subcommunicated.

    After a while without enough teasing, or push-pull, the girl starts to lose interest and acts weird.

    Solution: disappear….for a while. Then start again.

    Don’t over-think this. If it’s not happening, it’s not happening.

  • YOHAMI

    He’s gaming a dead horse.

  • Team-Red

    @YaReally

    RSD has been transcending PUA into a really great lifestyle by teaching how to build a harem while trying to become your best possible self. Alot of Journey and Inner Game stuff that is critical to being a well developed man that lives a fulfilling life. Good stuff.

  • Nick

    This was painful to read. Once you get to a point of discussing feelings with a girl you haven’t slept with, you’re done. You push the envelope as far as it’ll go with a girl and if it doesn’t go where you want it to, you move on to the next plate. If the girl is interested, let her re-engage on your terms. I used to be in this state, always trying to say the right thing or send a girl a text to remind her I was thinking of her or liked her or whatever. Like Rollo said, you can’t negotiate desire and men can’t just let things “evolve” with women. You have to have a definite goal in mind with a woman, and steer towards that goal. Take charge. If she falls off in the meantime, you have other women with whom you’ve also been interacting, so you don’t even have to skip a beat and just move on.

  • sharpcool

    It sounds like he’s afraid to make his sexual desires known to her and escalate. It might be “offensive” to her. About 85% of modern men think this bullshit.

    I paraphrase Krauser:

    “I’m a man, you’re a woman, and I want to have sex with you. It’s perfectly natural.”

    He comes out and say something like that outright. Dude, just fucking say it to her. Make it known you want to have sex with her, at least in your body language or just insinuate it in some way. Something, anything. That’s what she wants you to do.

  • Doc

    I generally see the type of behavior you’re describing in young women – at 35 it’s probably because she is keeping her options open and playing you. She is at that age when the biological GONG is ringing… LOUDLY! So she is trying to find the schmuck who will pay, pay, pay… You DO NOT want to be that guy. Women that age are trivial to manipulate since if you know their game, you dangle what they want in front, and they will jump like a kitten after a toy… They will do anything to seal the deal… Use it, if you like the older one…

    It sounds like you missed your opportunity when you didn’t nail her immediately and take control – it is only after you bed a woman that you get anything approaching real interest these days. Till then you’re just one of many they are playing…

    But at 42 you really need to go for younger women – 35 is getting up there, and she’s getting desperate… Once I hit 45, my bar was a minimum of 20 years younger – they are looking for fun at that age… Generally don’t go older than 25 – they start wanting a family….

    There are plenty of women – don’t get saddled with someone’s left-overs… You want meat freshly killed… You’re a predator by nature – so be one…

  • The Shocker

    if u were a running back your stats this week would be 3 attempts/0 yards/3 fumbles

    thats espn top 10 worst of the week my friend

  • Solo

    I may not agree with everything Rollo writes, but I fucking respect the hell outta dude(Brett Favre swag!). While I always give guys who posts theories and such shit. Its posts like these that “Rollo Tomassi’s” are fucking needed in the game. When I read this, I had a flashback to Miss Paris. I know why the guy did it. You wanna play it “safe” cause you think the girl is special or take your time. pfft Yeah right

    http://thesoloist1.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/miss-paris-and-return-of-the-chump-the-soloist-season-finale/

    The constant rookie mistakes I was doing, the “pussy-footing” around. My point is Rollo hits the nail on the head. Club game is one thing, SNL is one thing but trying to be in a relationship or date? that’s a different monster!When the club strobe lights are of, when their is no booze and you and the chick are sober, when the music stops, when its just you and the chick.

    THIS IS THE REAL DANCE! The real battle

    The constant shit test, frame battles, you don’t master this after one day, this takes years. Rollo knows his stuff, I can’t front

    and I’m playing catch up…yeah I said it

  • Underdog

    This article had too much back and forth dialogues.

    Bored me to fucking tears.

    Now I feel sorry for the girl who had to experience it when all she wanted was some cock.

  • muscleman

    This was a little hard to read. She threw herself at you several times now. Get a drink with her late at night, even better if it’s at your place (sounds like you’re pretty familiar with each other). You’re 42 and you’ve been ‘swimming’ in pussy and now you don’t want to tap it because you want to wifey her? Are you serious? That’s now how you get a girl who’s ‘scared’ of a relationship involved with you. You fuck her brains out, kiss her all over after, and keep it on the dl at work. No more overt communication. At this point it’s probably better to next unless she approaches you. If she does, go for the kill (night date with drinks). If not, learn and apply on the next one.

  • Old Glory

    He needed to just straight up tell her after one of those isolating moments and kisses: “I want you.”

    Then take her home and seal the deal.

  • immoralgables

    Muscleman has the best quote in terms of developing that abundance mentality after situations like these:

    “If not, learn and apply on the next one.”

    Just tell yourself that and it gets easier. Every mistake I’ve made after I started reading Rollo and Roissy has been mollified by the fact that it’s all part of the process.

    Experience is the best yet most painful teacher.

  • dean

    Rollo,

    Its 2012. Every girl today is an Alpha Widow. No girl gets through to age 25 without fucking an alpha let alone 35. I’m curious what you think the mindset should be of men who have to deal with these women (all of them)? Try to out-Alpha her past alphas? Be the best alpha you can be. Try to do Athol’s alpha/beta blend? Not give a shit (which I guess is just being uber alpha)?

    Are there different types of alphas? Perhaps we should all try to find our niche alpha territory? These may sound like jokes but I’m being serious. My assumption is that every girl I meet has been fucked in every orifice by at least 20 alphas before me. My assumption is that they also have been Roissied or Straussed or Mystery Methoded or Speed Seductioned hundreds of times.

    How to be an original alpha is the question I am asking you.

  • Flatnose

    “Kill the Bunny” …Genius! Sums it all up for me. :-)

  • Rooster

    “Ask for Forgiveness, Not Permission.”
    Tim Ferris – The 4-Hour Work Week.

  • nek

    @Dean,

    I think you know the answer (you already mentioned it). Trust your gut.

  • Mike

    Cut her OFF. Completely. Don’t play her game. You give this type cause to think they can run you, and that’s all they’ll try to do.

  • YaReally

    @dean

    “My assumption is that every girl I meet has been fucked in every orifice by at least 20 alphas before me.”

    Thinking/worrying about comparing yourself to other guys is just your ego fucking with you because it knows you have insecurities.

    Maybe she’s fucked 20 alphas before you, but none of them were as good as you. “What you feel, she feels.” When you truly believe you’re better than any man she’s been with and any many she COULD be with and any many she’ll ever BE with, she will too. There are psychological principles behind this on both her and your side that make it work, but you don’t need to understand them to make this work for you.

    Put it this way: George Clooney is NEVER wondering if he’s the best a girl’s ever had. Brad Pitt isn’t stressing how other guys have fucked Angelina Jolie. etc.

  • colonelcrimson

    I couldn’t agree more, YaReally.

    Your mindset on a date shouldn’t be about how you can out-alpha the other guys but how you’re the only alpha she’s ever known. It doesn’t have to be true; it’s all about how you make her feel. Perception is reality.

  • Kevin Anon

    dean, something you need to remember: PUA’s, almost by definition, aren’t alphas. The only possible exception here is possibly Rollo himself, but then he was never a PUA. PUA’s are guys who try to learn the tactics and methods to *seem* alpha.

  • xsplat

    It’s not always easy to know when to make a move.

    Sometimes girls won’t make much of gesture of invitation.

    I’m reminded of times when I did, and when I didn’t escalate.

    I once had a girl visiting my apartment. We were laying on the bed watching TV, and she had her self all cocooned up in a blanket, staring at the TV playing dead with her eyes open. She seemed fridgid with fear. Not looking at me, not interacting.

    So how to escalate? Where is the opening? Make a remark? No, for some reason I just went for it. Rolled over to her and started touching her. There wasn’t much resistance. Oh, there was the usual resistance here and there as I escalated, but as usual I just backed off, then re-escalated until we were naked. And kept going as far as possible.

    Ok, now another time. A girl kept coming to visit my apartment, and I couldn’t find any opening. I’d ask her if she wanted a massage; code for let’s fuck now. She’s say no, she has to go soon, then soon leave. This would happen again and again until I stopped letting her come over.

    But on chat or sms she’d tell me that she didn’t understand why I didn’t try to fuck her.

    !

    WTF.

    Me: “What was I supposed to do? Rape you?”
    Her: “Yes.”

    I think the second situation would feel closer to what you see going on. You don’t see any signals from the girl to proceed.

    Well, sometimes we don’t get the clear signals, and it’s up to us to proceed anyway, and then check for resistance.

    But then that’s when your real skills come in. Most of the time there actually will be resistance. Then it’s your job to KEEP escalating. First you back off a bit, then you escalate past her boundaries until she stops you, then you back off and let her come to you for affection, then you escalate past where you were before, and so on.

    I still make the error sometimes of not getting sexual fast enough, but I’ll tell you how I usually avoid that problem. I only date girls who make my dick hard by looking at them. If I’m feeling it, there is a greater chance I’ll act on it.

  • xsplat

    Oh, and what Rollo said. Absolutely never have any sort of relationship talk. Ever. I don’t care if you are trying to negotiate intimacy or if you’ve been fucking her for 10 years.

    A relationship is something that people do, it’s isn’t something they talk about.

    She should be trying to get you to commit, after sex. You never try to get her to a relationship so that you can have sex. The relationship happens because she wants to keep fucking you, not the other way around.

  • gregg

    Decent advice. Women are very poor in hiding their interest when you know what you have to look for. When it is on, go for it. Do not leave it up to her to decide. Grab her and FUCK HER. Fuck her GOOD and hard. As soon as possible. That is all.

    Women are walking sex organs, their mission is purely sexual (procreation). This is their core. Such creature has and need to be ravished physically not showered with words. According to my humble opinion even experienced men are STILL talking too much when it comes to women. If we want them to develop any genuine emotions we have to fuck the shit out of them and fill them with this oxytocin coctail as soon as possible.

  • b-166-er

    YaReally
    September 19th, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    Put it this way: George Clooney is NEVER wondering if he’s the best a girl’s ever had. Brad Pitt isn’t stressing how other guys have fucked Angelina Jolie. etc.
    —————————————-
    Never let a woman be the purpose of your life. That is some BS males are fed growing up. A woman should always be secondary to your lifes mission. Have a purpose, be for real about it; get in touch with your inner Adolph… no female is that important, and they know it.

  • YaReally

    @Kevin

    Oh, a newbie. That’s cute. I bet you’ve read The Game and EVERYTHING lol

  • Kevin Anon

    @YaReally

    Nah. Just want someone to talk to me.

  • Memories of Green

    It is difficult for men to understand how a slam dunk can be completely nullified by one moment of indecision.

    Had a mousy, feminine girl on slow burn for a semester due to logistical concerns. Flirted vociferously with her social clique, but did not close any of them or ask for their numbers (don’t shit where you eat). Despite my indirectness towards her she was radiating IOIs like Fukushima emits ionizing particles. Hair twirling, body language mirroring, smiling and laughing at my unfunny anecdotes, acting nervous when isolated. The cattiest one of the clique even had a codeword to use in my presence for wanting to fuck me when I regaled them with cheerful misogyny or playful teasing, “throw me off the roof”. About halfway through the semester catty let slip that mousy “really wanted to throw me off the roof”.

    Fast forward to to the last class before the final and I manage to isolate mousy. She gleefully bounced out into the hall with me, and I tell her I have something to give her. Out my pocket I pull a piece of bright construction paper I had fashioned into a card, on the front in flowing cursive read the nickname in I had given to causing a beaming smile and “awwww” to eminate from her mouth. Turning to the inside of the card my cell number and initials alone stare back at her. I immediately felt the air leave her lungs, body language go from relaxed to fidgety, smile to a frown. She nervously looks up at me for direction, and I bring my a finger to my mouth making a shushing gesture to draw her back into my frame. Too little, too late, all I get is a nervous triple nod and she turns back toward the classroom never to be heard from again.

    The lessons learned here are the same one as the JAS’s:
    -If you’re attracted to a woman, pursue her with full vigor. The longer you wait, the longer you have to disqualify yourself.
    -Be aggressive and take the initiative. The instant you push a female towards personal responsibility and self advocacy they are assured to recoil from your touch.

  • itsme

    Now I feel sorry for the girl who had to experience it when all she wanted was some cock.

    nah, no need to feel sorry for her. she got the cock, just not his.

    she may have wanted his the most, but since he didn’t step up, she chose another one from the carousel.

    ‘i need to get fucked, where’s cock when i need it?’ is not a thought that ever goes through a woman’s mind.

  • FuriousFerret

    ‘i need to get fucked, where’s cock when i need it?’ is not a thought that ever goes through a woman’s mind.

    Quote of the Week.

    Rollo will probably use it as the basis of his next article.

  • Joe Blow

    “You should wait until tomorrow morning” – that’s an open door. Hard to miss that one.

  • anongirl

    “Kill the Bunny” made me laugh. It’s not terribly common to hear nowadays, but years ago the expression “kill the rabbit” referred to pregnancy (in reference to an early form of pregnancy testing). Obviously not what he was getting at! Friendly trivia from a female midwifery student/lurker

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Typical wishy-washy flaky behavior of a modern carousel rider. Alpha widow? Like someone else said, at 35 they are ALL alpha widows. No, this chick is acting this way cause homie didn’t stand out among the half dozen other dudes who are orbiting her at any given time. There is no such thing as a “single” or “taken” chick…..only windows of opportunity where she is receptive to taking in some new cock. With attractive women these windows only remain open for a short period of time, sometimes only days. You snooze you loose.

    Also, what’s with all the yapping? Every word that comes out of a guy’s mouth communicating “feelings” is another nail in the coffin. You don’t talk about shit like that with a woman you haven’t fucked. EVER. And even after you are banging them you are much better off using as few words as possible, especially when it comes to stuff like that..

  • FFY

    @Kevin Anon

    lolzlolzolzloz you’re funny man

    Give up! No one who isn’t alpha at this very moment can never be alpha!

    Go back to the kiddy pool hombre

  • Matthew

    FFY: “Kevin” is prob’ly the name of the alpha that widowed that particular commenter.

  • Matthew

    If a woman allows herself to be alone with you, she’s open to you fucking her. That alone is the signal. That is why sane societies do not allow unmarried women to be alone with men.

  • Apollinian

    Yohami perfectly nailed this case right from the first comment.

  • herpderp

    Rollo is correct, you turned attraction into too many words, it is now too concrete, she needs the amorphous version that sorts itself out after a few bangs. You have that ‘where are we going’ convo after you’ve banged enough times you know she’s not going anywhere. Otherwise it comes across as you being anal. As we get older as a man, we do want to know where things are heading, sadly this is not how the other side works. Take her to see some loud music, and drink alot, and don’t fucking talk this time. Better yet, don’t fucking date ppl from work, every friend on the planet will tell you this. This rookie mistake is made by everyone.

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