Plate Theory IV: Goal-State Monogamy

Whenever a guy uninitiated to the concept of spinning plates reads the theory for the first time his first response is usually rejection of it because it conflicts with their monogamy-as-goal mindset. Understand, this is always going to be a tough stretch for any AFC of course, but also the ‘natural’ guy who doesn’t have much trouble attracting women. Monogamy-as-a-goal is a feminine imperative social contrivance, but it also has roots in our natural desire for security, so it makes anything even remotely like plate spinning counterintuitive. The feminine imperative pounds into men’s collective consciousnesses over the course of a lifetime that monogamy will cure loneliness, make them responsible, provide them with a constant supply of sex, and a host of other things that assures them it’s “the right thing to do” and in their own best interest. This then leads the more option-less individuals to develop and practice AFC methods and rationales in accordance with what they believe (and have been told by) women is required of them in order to achieve their monogamous intimacy.

So understandably when the principle of being non-exclusive is presented to them in a rational way (in stead of a ridiculed way as it’s normally passed off as) it conflicts with this perceived path to happiness in monogamy. The very idea that any man would be better off with more options in this arena of life, or could feasibly and logistically pull it off seems foreign. As a counter to this he makes up rationales as to why it wont work or wont work for him.

Logistics

“I can’t spin plates because I have too little time, I can’t manage more than one without the other finding out, etc.”

If you are indeed spinning plates in a healthy, upfront, non-exclusive way this should never be an issue. There are Game-aware Men with less time than most who manage 4-5 different girls in a week without having them consume all their leisure and business time. I don’t suggest that you go this route per se, because for the better part PUAs rely on a dishonesty in non-exclusivity. However, the reason they are capable of this is because they’ve perfected plate spinning effectively enough to have the plates spin themselves.

Most uninitiated AFCs reason that they MUST, at all costs, apply a constant effort to each and every girl they encounter at risk of losing a “good one.” Besides this being indicative of ‘soul-mate thinking’, what they fear is losing a plate because they are unaccustomed to having the leisure to do so. This is evidence of a scarcity mentality that is a result of their monogamy-as-goal preconditioning. Plate Theory necessitates an attitude of fearlessness – not carelessness, fearlessness. When you’re practicing Plate Theory your plates should call you. You are the PRIZE and the Prince who’s time is valuable and sought after. You should be the object of women’s pursuit. That said, you still have to make an effort to see them and keep the attention you do apply to them valuable, but this must be done with the attitude that if one plate falls you’re confident in your other options or your ability to generate new options.

Personality Type

“I’m just not like that. I don’t want to be considered a playah. I could never do that to a woman. How can anyone be like that?”

This rationale is a common one and not limited just to AFCs. There are plenty of otherwise confident, positively masculine men who’d still think they owe it to women to allow them to set the frame of their relationships without any fear of competition anxiety. Players are men who’re dishonest – they are not spinning plates because they are isolating each plate independent of the other, and this goes back to logistics. Of course you can’t find time for anything else if all you do is try to coordinate each individual story with each plate for fear that they discover each other. The plate spinning Man has no need for this, because he NEVER IMPLIES EXCLUSIVITY TO ANY PLATE. Either they accept this or they’re not a plate to consider. Done in a frank, honest, yet indirect above-table way you will not be a ‘Player’ and you will establish yourself as Man who’s attention is worth competing for.

Women would rather share a successful man than be saddled with a faithful loser. This perfectly sums up Plate Theory vs. Monogamy-as-Goal mindsets. Men in general gravely underestimate the power of female competition anxiety and how useful it really is. As I’ve said before, women are natural plate theorists – they are accustomed from a very early age to mitigate multiple sex-interests, they simply learn how to balance their indirect communications with that anxiety in their own plate spinning. Anxiety in women is good for men. Even when they make no effort to use it or would never consider it if they knew it’s usefulness it is ALWAYS present. Everything a woman does on a daily basis is colored by competition anxiety. Make up, clothing, shoes (God, the SHOES!), indirect communications with men and women, social contrivances, comparing and evaluating dates and possible suitors, EVERYTHING is bourn from this competitive desire to achieve security with the best possible guy and make damn sure the girl next door doesn’t get him first. This anxiety is analogous to men’s consummate fear of rejection and all of the myriad rationales he’ll create and the Buffers he’ll devise to avoid it.

Bear in mind that monogamy is a dictate of the feminine imperative. It is the social contract that the feminine ultimately needs in order to quell a constant desire for security in a very chaotic world. When you are predisposed to monogamy-as-goal thinking, or trying to break yourself of this, understand that this is a tool of the feminine imperative. That’s not to discount the overall merits of monogamy, but it is to make you aware of how it’s acculturated into men as a responsibility to providing monogamy. Men who find themselves in a state of internal conflict about abandoning monogamy-as-goal are really confronting a fundamental shift in their prior conditioning.


34 responses to “Plate Theory IV: Goal-State Monogamy

  • Sargonzo

    First time commenter, long time subscriber here. I’m on board with your plate spinning strategy, but if I’m not mistaken, doesn’t it indirectly imply that she can or should be spinning plates too? This is a problem because the thought of being with a girl who is fucking other men in parallel to me is the ultimate boner killer. The revulsion I feel at going where some other men has just been seems instinctual and therefore probably hard to get over. Is it realistic to expect multiple plates to be exclusively sexual with me? Is the answer to just let a non-exclusive plate drop?

  • Ty

    I have learned and applied a lot of your plate theory and I kk forward to reading more about it in the future. One question I have though, is, what were your reasons for getting married? Do you have a monogamous marriage our is it open? I’m curious as to why you chose marriage knowing what you know.

  • A.B. Dada

    I’m a relatively successful plate spinner, but I also don’t try to hide or mask things. The key is to not be a total dick about it, unless the gal “gets off” on various bits of information.

    My #1 (2 years now, which isn’t a long time) was my #3 when I met her. She was fine with her position, and she strived very strongly to make sure I was always happy with her. She’s the first gal I’ve dated for more than 6 months who has literally never been on time out. Once she hit the #1 position (meaning I see her more than twice a month), she was very open about asking me how she could keep being the go-to. I told her: keep doing what you’re doing, and don’t do what your friends do to their boyfriends and husbands. I didn’t give her a clear answer, and she has stayed very aggressive about making sure I am happy before we part ways.

    My previous #2 was fantastic: beautiful, intelligent, sexual, completely doting, adoring and loving. But she travels for work, and knew she had no chance of being a #1. At one point, when she was to be gone for 2 months, she actually set me up with her best friend for the summer. While that relationship expired from “defined status” due to distance and opposing schedules, she hasn’t changed her stride with me when we do get the rare chance to have an evening or weekend together.

    I’m always surprised at the outcome when I change my “don’t give a shit” attitude to giving a shit: complete and utter doom. Also, I’m constantly surprised that women who spin plates fail at it miserably. I can’t date the so-called “polyamorous” females because they’re confused by their own multiple mates’ varying degrees of status in various markers.

    I can still see myself settling down into a long term partnership of local monopoly (say, 200 mile monogamy), but with my hectic travel schedule, I can’t imagine how worldwide monogamy could work.

    I firmly believe that testosterone has something to do with it. There just doesn’t seem to be any other reason for an attitude difference in males. It’s also why it is so easy for me to pick out those who practice game but don’t live it, and those who were born with it.

  • A.B. Dada

    I have been a plate spinner since I started date at 13. I can say, without a doubt, that women who spin plates are terrible at doing so.

    There are 5 groups of female plate spinners:

    1. Attention whores — they will never put in more than they receive.
    2. BPD — you usually find these gals as actresses or strippers. Fun for a night or a weekend in Vegas, but that’s it.
    3. Single moms who have kids with more than 1 dad. Stay away.
    4. Realtors who earn a lot of money. Stay away.
    5. Women really unhappy with themselves because of their bad choices, who just want to compound the bad choices and blame others. I find these gals are usually the once-really-hot bartenders or possibly public school teachers (usually around 31 years old it seems to start)

    If my gal has a dalliance, I don’t really care as long as she’s safe about it. I had a gal who broke down crying to tell me she screwed some guy when she was on a business trip (nice dude, salesman of some sort, I had met him a year earlier). I laughed it off and said it’s nothing to be embarrassed about — that’s exactly what business conventions are about for a lot of people. She worked 5000% harder to try to earn forgiveness, but I had none to give because it seriously didn’t bother me whatsoever. Alcohol + being away from home = danger.

    If you don’t want your gal straying, nix the vacations with the gals (especially weddings in other states). If she strays when you’re at home, you’ve already lost.

  • caRIOca

    I’m spinning a plate for 3 months now. We will be in different New Year’s parties and I’ll be out of town. She knows I’ll probably bang other girl. How can manage my fear (or my certainty) that she will be fooling around too? I think it applies to the whole Plate Theory. I don’t wanna be monogamous, but I want to eat my meals in clean plates!
    (It is killing me)

  • A.B. Dada

    Nothing you can do — if you care that much and it hurts you, end the relationship because your one-itis is controlling your life, even if you will probably bang another girl. If a gal isn’t covering your needs right, she’s not the right girl, or you’re not ready for that type of gal yet.

  • YOHAMI

    If you´re spinning, hiding it or lying about it is beta – you´re not comfortable and you dont think the girl would want you as is so you lie – present a “better”, in your mind, self so you get what you want from her while she doesnt get what she wants from you.

    When I was spinning Id do it in the open. I had one main girl I cared about, and she knew most of the other girls, and most of the other girls saw me with some of the other girls at some time or shared a bed, etc.

    Hiding it would have been so complicated. And so stressful and so beta. It was my cock and my time and my attention – no one to give accounts to.

    However having them know each other allowed for some extra drama. Sometimes the “lets you and him fight” and some shit testing was over the top. Still, they knowing they can be replaced quickly makes them solve their own mess as soon as you tell them to go fuck themselves.

    Still, dating multiple girls at the same time felt more natural than monogamy. It worked better. Girls have ups and downs and days and stuff. Men are usually linear in that sense. I would just be with the girl with the best mood and who was happier to see me. Who wants to fuck today? all of you? ok who wants it more? yes baby you´re the winner. I never had to concede to anyone else´s frame.

    So if you are going to spin agree and amplify.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    The hallmark of a man with tight game is when he can acquire more plates to spin in the physical presence of his currently spinning plates, without dropping any.

    AB, you’ve got some tight game. I like the 200-mile monogamy idea. Probably wouldn’t work for me presently, but I could see some future application.

  • A.B. Dada

    Agreed completely.

    My Facebook over the years has had some hilarious “catty” wars going on between two or more gals who knew about each other and would amplify for me. It’s so fucking passive aggressive — getting “tagged” at a popular club, or a photo tagged of her sitting on my lap in a bikini in the Caribbean. Total beta male move, but great when women do it competitively.

    Open and mysterious, not closed and mysterious.

  • A.B. Dada

    Thanks, (r)Ev. It’s also proof that a short and relatively ugly guy with tight game can do better than a tall and really handsome beta. If I was 5 inches taller and my mug wasn’t fucked up from years of personal aggressive sports abuse, I can’t imagine what I would be tagging. And yet, I’m still extremely happy with who I’ve been with (short of my ex-wife and one of my ex-girlfriends) — there’s no complaining, just do it and be done with it.

  • YOHAMI

    Open, mysterious, hyped and in demand.

  • A.B. Dada

    Nice post on your blog today, Yohami. I try to cover “relationship economics” once a month or so — I’ve been a believer in it for 15+ years.

  • YOHAMI

    Thanks bro. Maybe this economics thing is all there is, and the idealistic non competitive thing is just idealistic. If so, at least I already know how to play the business.

  • A.B. Dada

    All relationships (friendships, business, sex, love — even family) have economic values. Economic values does not mean financial economics, but some need/give economics that are involved.

    As in true free market capitalism (a la the Austrian School), we all have a time preference, and we all have a “profit” versus “cost” point in everything we do. The joy of spending time with your 2 year old is a profit in entertainment, love, etc.

    So you’re right — it’s all economics, you just have to figure out the values.

  • Muse

    “Anxiety in women is good for men”…Rollo can you do an article on this please or post link ? Thanks

  • OnTheWayUp

    Very lucid OP. I’m completely sold on the idea of plate theory and have been practising it for just over a year now.

    “Players are men who’re dishonest – they are not spinning plates because they are isolating each plate independent of the other, and this goes back to logistics. Of course you can’t find time for anything else if all you do is try to coordinate each individual story with each plate for fear that they discover each other. The plate spinning Man has no need for this, because he NEVER IMPLIES EXCLUSIVITY TO ANY PLATE. Either they accept this or they’re not a plate to consider. Done in a frank, honest, yet indirect above-table way you will not be a ‘Player’ and you will establish yourself as Man who’s attention is worth competing for.”

    However, I find this difficult. Whenever I’ve been spinning plates, once things have got physical I always let them know that there are other girls. How do you imply non-exclusivity to your plates without broaching the issue directly? Not staying the night? Not going out for dinner? Only meeting for sex?

  • Richard

    I want to spin plates and I’m ultra-confident that I can (and I will eventually), but to do so I have to improve finances and move to a larger area with more plates.
    It can take a while to get over the Madonna aspect and accept that any girl you are “seeing” is very likely also “seeing” other guys, but we can (and if we decide to live this lifestyle we have to) get used to it and accept/be cool with this because she probably is “seeing” other guys anyway. Plus, there’s many AFC guys who are married and being monogamous without even knowing their wives are not being monogamous.

  • Flumpy

    I agree with most of this, and agree that most societies try to make monogamy (at least for the middle classes) more or less unquestionable. It is just assumed.

    However, because the social drive for monogamy is so great, you can’t tell broads that they’re one of three, or whatever. This is where guys who just sit around theorizing about dating multiple women have it wrong.

    I’ve dated multiple women since late 2002, and it’s become very clear that they are socialized to such an extent that they will not allow themselves to tolerate polygamy if it’s shoved in their faces. You need to maintain “plausible deniability;” ie., you must lie to them about it.

    Sorry, it’s true. I can always tell bloggers and posters who have never actually had MLTRs by their insistence that it can be done openly. It cannot, at least not for any length of time.

  • Brian

    There is truth in not telling women the complete truth and being discreet. It’s similar when approaching and talking with a new woman, it would be so much easier from a male perspective to just ask her “Do you want to have sex?”, a male would respond to most females asking him this question “Yes”, however most females would say to this honest question “No, get away from me creep” even if she wanted to because she logically cannot handle the truth, so that’s why with Game it is often said to keep escalating the seduction (getting her to have the sex she secretly wants to have but she as a woman can’t initiate) non-verbally. It would be logical to verbally say to her that we both can date other people, but her hamster can’t take this, even if she is in fact already dating other men herself (women are not selfish and don’t have double standards, right), and most women will not agree to stay in an open relationship. So we can spin multiple plates discreetly, but have to figure that once she finds out about it that it’s likely over with her, but that’s alright because that’s part of the ongoing process and there is constantly other women in the pipeline (plateline) to be on your pipe.

  • xsplat

    There are several variables that constrain the sustainability of spinning a particular plate.

    * Do they know each other, and are they in contact through facebook, sms, mutual friends, or other?
    * How deeply is the girl in love with you? The more she is bound to you in heart mind body and soul, the deeper she will feel volatile jealousy.
    * Is the girl trying to marry you? Are the other girls also trying to marry you?
    * Is she looking for provisioning from a man and have you not kept alive her hopes that you will do so? A big proportion of girls include men as income in their career path plans – if not the end point of their career.
    * How able are you to mate guard, given the logistics?

    It’s an entirely different arrangement to live with a girl while seriously dating other women who are in love with you who are in touch with your live in girl, then it is to casually date women in different cities.

    Keeping multiple fuck buddies isn’t a terrible challenge. Keeping multiple women who are doting and deeply in love is unstable.

  • OnTheWayUp

    “I can always tell bloggers and posters who have never actually had MLTRs by their insistence that it can be done openly. It cannot, at least not for any length of time.”

    I would be interested in knowing your definition of MLTR. Is it a relationship in which you see multiple girls for an extended period of time (say 1 month +), but the girls are monogamous to you? If so, I can say nothing against the above comment. I have never experienced this for longer than a month or so at a time.

    If, on the other hand, you are referring to a long term juggling of multiple girls who also see other guys themselves, than the above is wrong. I dated one girl from November 2010 to August 2011, and during all that time she was fully aware that I was seeing other girls. She had a bf for the first 3 months of our “relationship,” and was seeing other guys throughout the time we were seeing each other. I would even say that the fact she knew I was a player contributed to her attraction rather than working against it.

  • walawala

    Women are more interested in plausible deniability than in exclusivity.

    I was just with a girl I was gaming. Just before banging her, she asks: “Am I girlfriend or sex friend?”

    Me: “Wow…so many questions, what do you want?”

    Her: No answer…continue to bang…

    Keep it interesting for them and they’ll stay with you…

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Speaking of plausible deniability, almost all if not all of my past g/f’s have came straight out and told me that if I wanted to screw around on them, just make sure I kept it on the DL cause they didn’t want to hear about it.

    What I heard was “I don’t really have a problem if you cheat as long as you don’t force me to confront the truth.”

  • Nutz

    I’m in the same boat as another poster–I want to spin plates, but I don’t want them to do the same and mess around with other guys. I think this is the real reason “players” lie, they don’t want other men encroaching on their women.

  • walawala

    This takes a lot of inner confidence. When I first got separated from my now ex-wife 10 years ago, it was like being freed from house arrest.

    I didn’t understand game, but I didn’t care either. So by going out and circulating I was hanging out with 3 great women.

    Then I was banging all three of them.

    I just kept it fun, loose and kept them at bay….soon they couldn’t get enough of me…This is before I learned game.

    As soon as I got one-itis with one of the girls, I blew it all…lost all 3…lost my nerve.

    Girls don’t really care that you see other women. They just want to know that when you’re with them you make them feel something….

    That’s where game comes in.

    I just broke up with my gf of a year…

    She’s still chasing after me. But I successfully gamed a cute 27 year old who within the span of 3 weeks, went from giving me IOI’s., to a Christmas gift, to shit-testing me…to banging me…

    On Saturday, I’m meeting up with a reasonably hot flight attendant who went from flaking on me…to now offering to take me for drinks…

    They don’t care…they just want my attention. If you care that they may be seeing other blokes, you’ve got one-itis and you’re too invested.

  • Nutz

    “As soon as I got one-itis with one of the girls, I blew it all…lost all 3…lost my nerve.”

    I’ve had the same thing happen. Every time I get serious everything falls apart. I wrote about this here:

    http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1874588&postcount=51

  • xsplat

    You can get serious and get her more interested in you for that fact.

    Many people misinterpret an abundance mentality as a disinterest mentality.

    You can be way into the girl, and even quite in love. That’s attractive.

    It’s only when you are exclusively interested and in a position where you lose hand to her where things fall apart. If the girl needs you more than you need her, you can be as into her as you want.

    Just tend to show 1/3 as much interest as she does, and always keep your options open, or better yet see other girls – especially in the initial dating phases.

    Disinterest does not equal attraction. Attraction is needing her less than she needs you.

  • Year One «

    [...] Plate Theory IV [...]

  • Gunny

    “Bear in mind that monogamy is a dictate of the feminine imperative. It is the social contract that the feminine ultimately needs in order to quell a constant desire for security in a very chaotic world. When you are predisposed to monogamy-as-goal thinking, or trying to break yourself of this, understand that this is a tool of the feminine imperative.”

    While I don’t disagree with the idea of women as natural “plate-theorists” or the concept of hypergamy, it is prudent to remember that men, too, have a biological stake in monogamy. As women need it to ensure the man doesn’t squander resources to support offspring of other women, so men need it to ensure that they wont squander resources to support another man’s offspring.

    Monogamy is thus a two-edged sword for *both* sexes: It restricts options, yes, but it also guards against infidelity of the other partner. That infidelity has such negative connotations is not just a female imperative, it also hurts men’s biological self-interest. It is not in our biological self-interest to feed the offspring of another male anymore than it is in the biological self-interest of women to have their mate feed multiple women and their offspring.

    Monogamy is thus a mutually beneficial compromise. Let’s remember that the concept of marriage (and the harsh punishments for breaking the wedding vows) were devised under extremely patriarchal and all-around male-dominated societies. It was not a feminist invention.

  • Kyexi

    Gunny is correct. When a few men monopolize a lot of women, the “AFCs” get pissed and pick up their spears. Monogamy was devised to create stable societies.

  • Darron

    I prefer to bone just one woman at a time to reduce the chance of getting an STD. I know once things run their course I can find another to take her place.

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