The Men in the Garage

man-cave-art-02

Down Low on the SoSuave forum makes an observation:

I once lived in a suburb where all the men were relegated to their garages. Whenever a garage door was up, there’d be a man puttering around inside. He’d have a couch and desk, TV on, maybe clicking on a computer, and some mini fridge or hot plate going.

Of the neighbors I knew, none of the men were happily married. Some of them were relegated to upstairs bedrooms that had been converted into home offices. Others slept in a different bedroom from their wives. The men made quickie snacks all day out of cold cuts, chips, and cola. They all drank heavily.

Thing is, most of them had pretty good paying jobs and two cars out front. It seems that their wives were all unhappy over living for free in a new house, having a free car to drive, and having credit cards to go shopping with all day.

Burroughs then distills the phenomenon down for us:

Our main weakness as men lies within our inability to recognize when and how men are hated, we want so desperately to believe the illusion, we want so desperately to be liked and wanted and needed, that we have lost all sort of instinct for self preservation, to the point where we will literally jump in front of knives and bullets for women we dont even know.

The system is not designed for male contentedness, it doesn’t want male happiness, it wants you to constantly feel incomplete, it thrives off of your insecurity , it needs you to question yourself, it needs you to be in constant fear… of being alone of being a virgin, of continuing to have sex after your no longer a virgin, of being muscular, of not going bald, of this of that of everything.

Because remember you are not allowed a shred of weakness or vulnerability, it stifles the spirit of men it is pesticide on the male soul, society still has no clue, their pumping out these man up articles one right after another arent they?

Have we raised a generation of men that dont know how to be men? Where have all the good men gone? How come women are outperforming men in this and that? They simply will not come admit that this is a result of a sustained effort to disenfranchise men, one in which the end result can only be men turning their backs on a society that will to the bitter end hate on men for doing so.

Becuase you exist to serve there wont be an equal treatment of male victims of domestic violence, for example, no matter how much the inequality of it is pointed out, simply because you as a man have no right in this society to demand equal treatment.

I think the men in the garages have realized…or are realizing what a terrible waste their lives have been…and that their wives are not their allies but their slave-masters.. nagging endlessly while parasitically living off the income of the husband until such time as he is depleted…at which point the woman can cast him aside while continuing to extort money from the man through the police state….the men in the garage realize this…they realize the lies they have been fed through media and church have led them to this…so they drink….to avoid blowing their brains out.

Stay strong men.

Man Caves & Manctuaries

While I really like the idea of in-garage-bars (I can think of at least 2 I know around here in Florida), I’m of two minds about this. On one hand, I think it’s essential for a healthy marriage that a Man set aside his space in the home. This is essential in establishing independent identities that is vital to a woman maintaining respect for her spouse. There are long established habits and interests and things that are part of my personality that I know damn well Mrs. Tomassi loathes, but the moment I allow her to “fix” me is the moment she loses respect for me in my independence because I’d be identifying with what she ‘thinks’ is best only to placate to her. There has to be that separation or you end up becoming this homogenized, asexual assimilation of what she thinks you should be – this is the ultimate form of male supplication. So as a necessary part of living together there must be areas that you are uncompromisingly separate in. This is a HUGE shit test that most married AFCs fail and then become slaves to the expectations and entitlements their wives have.

On the other hand, when routine life with a woman decays into this for a long period of time, understandably even AFCs will want a refuge. This used to be the local bar or some other man’s refuge. Depending on his degree of servitude, a weekend in his “man cave” ends up being preferable to the constant nagging of his wife. This is why escapisims (such as MMO type computer games) are so popular. Working life AND personal life become so intolerable that the escape is preferable to dealing with his realities. So he creates his own treehouse with a big sign on the outside that says “no girls allowed.”

In John Gray’s travesty that is Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, he makes a misguided attempt to characterize men’s want for a cave as something inherent to the male nature. This makes accepting a ‘man cave’ a bit more palatable for women steeped in feminine social primacy, but the phenomenon is so much more as Burroughs illuminated in his post. It’s not a want for solitude, it’s a necessity for escape.

Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous

I can understand a want for isolation and an escape, however brief, from dealing with one’s reality. We all have them in one form or another, but what the men in the garage signify is a more permanent form of surrender to feminine primacy. It’s not enough that a man be (even partially) responsible for the provisioning of his spouse and children, she must occupy the home so thoroughly that he’s pushed to the peripheries (sometimes even a separate location) to have any domain over what is his. It may be the garage, it maybe an off-site storage facility, it may be a customized basement “she allows him” to convert, but in the end it’s the summation of his surrender of frame.

It’s gotten to the point that men are so obliviously accepting of this frame surrender that his customized, pseudo-bachelor pad, underground dwelling becomes a point of pride for him. It’s something to impress other, equally as frame-oblivious men with. The guy with enough income to maintain a home his wife controls and a separate man-cave apartment of his own is envied by men less capable to do so.

What these men don’t see is the danger in their reasoning for isolation. For men so thoroughly conditioned by the feminine imperative, women’s control of the home is a given; it’s just how it is – if they want to get laid with any regularity. While consoling oneself in the garage amongst the big screen TV, pool table and wet bar, there’s not much impetus to give a man insight as to why his ‘fortress of solitude’ would even be necessary for him in the first place. He doesn’t wonder about why he should need to support a home and family while simultaneously living like a bachelor in his apartment on the weekends.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Nick
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So ingrained is the feminine imperative that I’ve known men who’ve created “man caves” who weren’t even married (as bachelors or with live-in girlfriends). Just the name suggests men are neanderthals while women are the civilized ones who own the house they probably didn’t even pay for. I agree that in any relationship with a woman a man should have his own space and time, but to automatically allow a woman to set the terms and “allow” a man to be relegated to a “cave” like a troll is sickening. Most men laugh about this description and play along, not… Read more »

Revo Luzione
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Yes indeed, this is a big problem. Men who end up in the basement or garage have completely lost both perspective and their masculine frame.

It was said succinctly elsewhere– the man cave is what’s left for a man after he caves and caves and caves.

Jeremiah
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Just saw L.A. Confidential for the first time. Thought I was hearing things.

Jay
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I pay the bills, but I only really own 12 square feet of space on my side of the bed, and the wife and kids don’t understand why I’m so defensive about it when they invade my personal 12 square feet. It’s the only clean spot in the whole damn house, and it’s mine.

taterearl
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“Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous” So true…isolation in short bursts can be good for your mind…isolation for long periods of time leads to many problems. Men aren’t supposed to be islands. Some of my good ideas come from quiet time…others come from discussing with other guys. It is sad though that you pay for a house and only get to own a small part of it or have no say on how you want the house set up. It would be easier to live in an apartment…at least you get your money’s worth… Read more »

jlw
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That’s why you never marry. My house is all mine. Has been for years, will be for the rest of my days. No wife, no kids, no family at all. People keep telling me how lonely I’ll be in my late 20s (I wasn’t), 30s (I wasn’t), 40s (I’m not). When does it end? When do people finally say…”gosh, I think that guy is happy alone”?

Stingray
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”gosh, I think that guy is happy alone”?

Never. It’s too scary a thought (for women) and too happy a thought for men who will never see it without losing what they’ve already achieved.

taterearl
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”gosh, I think that guy is happy alone”

The day my aunts, female cousins, and grandmothers quit asking me if I have a girlfriend/wife yet. Still hasn’t happened.

sunshinemary
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So as a necessary part of living together there must be areas that you are uncompromisingly separate in. This is a HUGE shit test that most married AFCs fail This is interesting. I am not sure how it is for most men; my husband has a basement workshop because one of his hobbies is woodworking, but he also likes having it as his own space which I am forbidden to clean. It seems like having a personal space for the man of the home isn’t the issue; it’s more how he is treated (either with respect or contempt) in the… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
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In girl-world only men who are married are permitted to be happy.

Stingray
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Sunshinemary,

I assume the basement is his, while the rest of the house is not *yours* right? It’s both of yours? I think that is a big distinction.

Rollo Tomassi
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I have (and have always had) an art/ design studio in my home from the day I bought the first of our six homes. I’ve always needed it for workspace, but it’s also ‘my place’; meaning I’m responsible for the decor, the arrangement of furniture, the paint, etc. It is part of my home, not set away from the home. Mrs. Tomassi still cleans and vacuums it and while it’s my favorite room of the house, it’s not a refuge. I think it’s more about the conditionality of how men go about establishing that space. I’m kind of an aesthetic… Read more »

itsme
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itsme
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In girl-world only men who are married are permitted to be happy.

they’re permitted, yet are rarely given permission.

Hopeless Marxism
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I see it as an existential problem. Materialistic corporate culture allows for no spiritual evolution. Notice how the garages and man caves are equipped with TVs and internet to keep the sheep plugged into mainstream American culture.

DJDamage
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Sir Edward Coke once said ” a Man’s house is his castle”

Today it seems as if its ” a man’s house is his Wife’s castle & he just lives there”.

avd
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I certainly don’t mean to talk over others, but it is literally unfathomable to me that ANYONE, much less a female, would control my physical existence IN MY OWN FUCKING living quarters. I accept that this is apparently a widespread issue, but I just don’t understand how it was able to arrive at issue status. Has that much testosterone really been drained from Western populations of homo sapiens? Females permitted into my living quarters are assigned certain furniture, side of the bed, bathroom hygiene, and kitchen organization . . . and they are NEVER permitted into my office, EVER. These… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
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If women would fuck in cardboard boxes, men wouldn’t buy houses. What I find interesting is the fact that post-marriage, most men would be perfectly happy living in a modest home, in a modest neighborhood, with modest furnishings. It is the women who demand a McMansion in an “upscale” neighborhood, filled with expensive but worthless decorations. And what is the man’s reward for providing these “necessities”? Whatever space the woman has no use for. An unheated, uninsulated room with concrete floors and shitty lighting. I was watching one of those “Strange Sex” shows last night and they were interviewing a… Read more »

Curious
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Rollo, could you please write more about “Men are from Mars” ?

Mark Minter
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I had a big screen in the garage, because she didn’t want it in the living room. Of course, we all spent many hours watching TV as a babysitter for kids. The kids loved the big screen. But nope, it didn’t smoothly fit over there in the corner like Princess wanted. The garage was the last phase before the “Final Solution”. I remember renting the entire Band of Brothers series and watching it back to back out there. A month later, I was living in Florida, beginning this chapter in my life. And for years, the family room had somewhat… Read more »

xsplat
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I was married once, and the wife insisted that she owned the kitchen. I thought that was a radical thing for a feminist to say, but didn’t fight her on it. We didn’t have a TV back then, but if we did we would have chosen what to watch by consensus. And by consensus I mean that if she wasn’t pleased with the show I would have “compromised”. I had my office, and later invested in a school bus that I was going to convert into a man cave. I was often unhappy and found her to often be an… Read more »

Case
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@Hopeless Marxist. agreed that the commercial culture has little use of people living to do rather than the approved route of doing to have. agreed too that there is much we should pay attention to in the marxist critique (anyone seeking the cliffnotes version of the critique is referred to the 2011 movie “in time”). point though: american corporate capitalism is only one subform of corporate capitalism which is only one form of capitalism per se. I think marxism offers insights that are important and they become more important the more they are ignored, but little by way of answers.… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
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Rollo, could you please write more about “Men are from Mars” ? I had to read this crap for a psych class and I ran the teacher up the flag pole for giving even a word of legitimacy about this feminized, patronization literature that passes for psychology. This book is chick-crack for the Oprah-Dr. Phil-Sex and the City crowd, and the fact that any guy with an ounce of testosterone in his bloodstream would even raise an eybrow over it is a testament to how pre-whipped men have become. It reads like a handbook on how men can better supplicate… Read more »

Peregrine John
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As bad as it is, there’s worse. Do not find or read “His Needs, Her Needs.” Take it from me that it makes Dr. Gray look like Mr. Mintner.

Wilf
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@AVD “For fuck’s sake—YOU’RE THE MAN; IT’S YOUR FUCKING HOME. Apologies for the emotional outburst, but I find the idea of men not being in charge of their households to be extremely offensive.” I too almost hit the roof over what I’m hearing about men asking permission to have their own space in their home. I thought, “Surely, it hasn’t come to this.” And, then I thought about my fellow long-married friends and for quite a few of them this or a variation of this is indeed the case. It’s sad. I’m glad I don’t have to live this particular… Read more »

Ace Haley
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Great speech by Burroughs. I didn’t even even know who the guy was (I probably still don’t) but I know I’ve heard the words. This guy on Youtube, Barbarossaaaa, made a video about it a while ago.

AD
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Wanna comment on this one?

http://jezebel.com/5838994/a-field-guide-to-nice-guys

[Feel free to post this link over there, ’cause I aint gonna do it: Play Nice]

avd
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Xsplat ftw. (first time I’ve ever written “ftw”)

Georgia Boy
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I’ve never been on board with the man cave thing and I am not going to be. I know when I’m being fed a line of mainstream media BS to get me to buy a bunch of shit I don’t truly want. For you guys who like that stuff and have the time to watch sports, good for you, but it isn’t my vision of myself. We have an upstairs living area but I don’t use it much. Mostly when I want to be alone I just go in the bedroom. I will admit we give each other personal time… Read more »

Mark Minter
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Rollo I posted the Play Nice link. And left a comment. Something about how I don’t play nice, why, and how I never will, and that I am just the beginning of a the next wave of men that aren’t going to be the compliant men that women wish. Maybe a little more. I am not sure which place makes me happier to flame, Manboobz or Jezebel. My Jezebel comments are probably loftier, better writing. I just generally call Manboob a pussy magina with a side of flame. But give Jezebel credit. They post them. [Because on a root level,… Read more »

Jeremiah
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I’m never getting married. I’m sure some guys are happy with thier wife and family, but I’ve never seen a married couple and thought “I want that.”

Kids would be cool but I don’t want to responsible for anyone but myself.

Candide
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It is a very modern Anglosphere cultural phenomenon that married men live like servants in their own homes. First they fail to own the bedroom. Note when a couple have a fight, the man will go sleep on the couch or go somewhere else for a few nights, leaving the house to the master aka wife. In contrast, in a patriarchal culture, the wife will get kicked out of the bedroom or usually go back to her parents’ for a little while until they make peace. It’s only a natural progression that the servant must find his own small shitty… Read more »

Philalethes
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Re: “Men Are From Mars”… Susan Walsh seems to like it: http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/11/30/relationshipstrategies/20-years-later-men-and-women-are-still-from-different-planets/ I remember when it came out, the title was such obvious pandering I never looked further. Similarly, Warren Farrell’s “Myth of Male Power” was pretty good (when I read it in the 90s) — at least a good job of collecting evidence — until I got to the last chapter, where he declares that the solution is for the sexes to become more alike! All that work, and he still doesn’t get it. Truly, the Matrix has most men by the balls. [Aunt Giggles likes it because Gray… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
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Heh,..Man-Cave = Servants Quarters, ergo he is ‘The Help’

Philalethes
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“Note when a couple have a fight, the man will go sleep on the couch….”

Yes. What could be more obvious?

AW
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AW
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Mark Minter, please post a link to your comment at Jezebel…my popcorn is already in the microwave.

Sexual Marxism
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“Apologies for the emotional outburst, but I find the idea of men not being in charge of their households to be extremely offensive.” You are single. When married a house is not a building that belongs to either partner but a HOME that is built and shared by the two. However “having my space” largely appears to be a western-sphere thing. Those of us from the East are used to growing up in households with a lot of family members, sharing all sorts of stuff. Just 2 people in a big house seems like a waste to us and very… Read more »

taterearl
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“Note when a couple have a fight, the man will go sleep on the couch”

I often think most women start fights just so they can have the entire bed.

I always liked the idea of having separate beds for sleeping. You can still have sexy time in one of them…but you can kick her out and have the entire bed to sleep in for the rest of the night.

IrishFarmer
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A man should have his space. A basement or a garage is ideal, because it’s low traffic. A living room isn’t really a great place for strict “man stuff”, because that’s where you’re most likely to entertain people. The problem is that the man escapes to his so-called cave. Whatever isn’t solely for the use of the man is a shared space. It should not be a space the man is kicked out of, it should be a space that husband and wife work together to decorate or whatever and make presentable for outsiders. It should be a comfortable place… Read more »

nek
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@ S & M “You are single. When married a house is not a building that belongs to either partner but a HOME that is built and shared by the two. ” While nice in theory, this often isn’t the practice in the western anglosphere. The wife often tries to dictate terms. They use cute terms like “having him trained” to speak about their husbands. Also, he WAS married. He’s been there, you’re not dropping any hidden knowledge on him. “Just 2 people in a big house seems like a waste to us and very lonely at that.” Most men… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
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Never really paid it a passing thought but now that someone mentioned it, I can’t imagine what I would do if my wife of g/f tried to make me sleep in another room. How pussified do you have to be to give in to something like that?

If you ever get to that point your marriage is a ticking time bomb.

Good Luck Chuck
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I mean, what’s she gonna do? Put a gun to your head and tell you to get out?

Bitch, take YOUR happy ass to the couch if you have a problem.

OlioOx
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I promise this is the last time I will repeat this: I think I have discovered a woman commenter who really gets it about what men are getting angry about nowadays (by the way xplat likes her too)

I’m repeating this because I am very curious to hear opinions on this woman from this blog in particular and its commenters.

http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat/videos?view=0

(Select any of the vids with thumbnail showing the commenter herself, not the brief radio spots. You might as well start with the most recent one, “Look Out! It’s a Nice Guy! DESTROY HIM!!!”)

Sexual Marxism
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OlioOx, All the women that I’ve seen who try to infiltrate and cozy up to the Manosphere are homely looking 5’s at best. I wonder why? Anyway, regarding sleeping in separate rooms. Not a bad idea. Another commenter said couples should have their own rooms. For making love they can go into one or the other’s room, but on usual nights, separate sleeping spaces might actually help them get along better. I grew sometimes sleeping with my grandma, ma, father, uncle, aunt, cousins all in different rooms, and sometimes with both my parents when they got their “own space”. No… Read more »

Georgia Boy
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By the way, I love russian lit too, still covering the basics but getting there. I have the Great Courses lectures on it and am working my way through the golden age. Any woman whose husband takes that up on the couch, deserves whatever heartache she gets when he walks on her.

Gilligan
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Had a Grandfather that never needed a man cave – the entire house was his man cave. My grandmother lived in his house. When my grandmother wanted something new, sometimes he would agree, but other times, she got a flat “no”. One of his favorite sayings was, “we aren’t going to buy that sofa…for I am he who all blessings flow”. In other words, “I pay the bills”.

Candide
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Rollo, maybe we should start calling those mancaves for exactly what they are: Servants Quarters. We’re in the middle of a war on words and femcentric definitions after all, and a little shaming goes a long way.

Case
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Funny thought I had just thinking about all of this. It’s like the entire culture is organized around persuading men that women’s love is possible, women’s love is wonderful, your life is incomplete and probably meaningless without women’s love, and basically the most important important important thing in the whole wide world all over is achieving the love of a woman. All of this is intended to distract from the very simple truth: the only thing that is important … and it may not be important, but the only thing that could be important, is a woman’s respect, not her… Read more »

Senior Beta
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Truth be told Rollo, I love your stuff but mostly flip through for the Minter comments. I knew he would have some great story from this post. But don’t have time to trace him through the Web labyrinth. Good post. So I will have the big screen put in the living room in time for next football season.

avd
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@ OlioOx,

Respect your upbringing. Just can’t conceive of that lack of control over my own home. I would ditch the family and extended family before ever putting up with it.

Case
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Case
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Ok OT but funny i’ve gotta share…
i’m literally in the gym rite now working out.
Got going on some reps & overheard two fellows nearby conversation went like this…
Dude A: hey where’s (name sounds like “binky”)
Dude B: oh he’s got anger management class on Monday nights. I think he plans to workout at 7:30.

At that moment I’m thinking to myslef, “he works out, is known to by his friends, and is in anger management class. Betchya the dude cleans up”.

No sooner than the thought has cleared my head…

Dude A: yeah I hear he’s popular with the ladies

GhostShip
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Men have an inherent need for solitude so the man caves make sense. However, the problem comes from when the man cave is the only place in the home that shows his presence. I’ve been to some guys homes who if I didn’t know that a man lived there I would have no idea that his wife or girlfriend wasn’t the only occupant. A man should make sure that he has made his mark on every common room in the home and especially in the bedroom. You doesn’t want your woman to be able to walk though your shared home… Read more »

Johnycomelately
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I guess the Scots invented a passtime that would take forever, involve enough physical exertion that women wouldn’t join but not enough to be taxing and that could be enjoyed while having a drink and smoke, I think they called it golf.

OlioOx
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Rollo, for those (like me) who have never read the Men are from Mars book, wouldn’t it be worth their time — for the sake of learning how so many women AND men think nowadays? ‘Know thy enemy’ sort of thing?

And @avd — I think you must have wanted to reply to someone else.

Chuck Hammer
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My 24 year marriage is sort of a low key War of the Roses and she exploits me plenty but I’ve never been kicked out of my own bed. In fact on one memorable occasion I literally kicked her out – put my feet on her and shoved her onto the floor. I responded to the explosion of rage with a rude comment then rolled over and ignored her. She slept on the couch. In retrospect that was not one of my better ideas.

Fuckaire
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Just marry or get an LTR who doesn’t want to enter the garage. If it has insects or lots of tools, they’ll stay out. Believe me… Done.

Mark Minter
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I have a request. Kind of asking a DJ for a song. This is from the Memoirs of Casanova. “What is love? I have read plenty of ancient verbiage on that subject, I have read likewise most of what has been said by modern writers, but neither all that has been said, nor what I have thought about it, when I was young and now that I am no longer so, nothing, in fact, can make me agree that love is a trifling vanity. It is a sort of madness, I grant that, but a madness over which philosophy is… Read more »

avd
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@ OlioOx

“And @avd — I think you must have wanted to reply to someone else.”

Confident I was replying to you, friend.

fedrz
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The Homelessness of Man – by G.K. Chesterton

Old, but relevant.

OlioOx
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@avd

I’m sorry but I don’t have the faintest idea what you’re talking about. Are you referring to the videoblogger I linked?

trackback

[…] the women keep trying taking advantage of kindness, work to gain hand in the relationship, relegate the man to his garage man cave (otherwise knows as his servants quarters), and then leave the guy for the bad-boy play-boy banker […]

OlioOx
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@Mark Minter The physiology of love — or why your brain gets completely wacked — is discussed in lectures 14-17 of Standford University endocrinologist Robert Sapolsky’s course “Human Behavioral Biology.” The course was designed for beginners in biology and anyone else who’s interested. http://www.academicroom.com/course-lecture/human-behavioral-biology (also on Youtube) It’s probably best to watch from the beginning though; later lectures often assume you’ve understood the earlier ones. As a longtime recreational student of life sciences, I think I am on safe ground in assuming that natural selection is almost exclusively responsible for the overwhelming mental/physical experience of that phenomenon with so many… Read more »

Different T
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“The system is not designed for male contentedness, it doesn’t want male happiness, it wants you to constantly feel incomplete, it thrives off of your insecurity , it needs you to question yourself, it needs you to be in constant fear… of being alone of being a virgin, of continuing to have sex after your no longer a virgin, of being muscular, of not going bald, of this of that of everything.” While this is true, it is not complete. As you say, “It seems that their wives were all unhappy over living for free in a new house, having… Read more »

Baffled
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Rollo I wonder if you could post on something that has been a real thorn in my side my whole life: women’s need to fight. Game has illuminated so much that was previously utterly baffling to me. I now understand the “reason” behind shit tests, women’s love for assholes, their disgust of nice guys, hypergamy, and the rest. But I haven’t come across anyone who can explain women’s need to fight. In every relationship I have ever had there comes a moment when the woman just out of the blue wants to have a fight. It’s probably been building up… Read more »

LynxViridis
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” living like a bachelor in his apartment on the weekends.”

Living like a bachelor except the p*ssy.

OlioOx
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@Baffled

What a great question. I suggest you also post it to a few other bloggers: Heartiste, Hooking Up Smart, girlwriteswhat, roosh’s forum for example. And if you’ve noticed this is a disturbingly frequent behavior in a certain woman, also post it to Ricky Raw — therawness.com

Rollo Tomassi
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Baffled, start with this post:
https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/indignation/

someguy302004
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someguy302004
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My dad never had a man cave-he had a chair in the living room that was his-and only his. (You gave it up when he came in).

He also had the head chair at the kitchen table-no one else took this.

Also, he never got nagged in front of us, and had a knack for ignoring bullshit when he felt like it.

xsplat
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xsplat
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ralized and feel like nothing has been resolved or addressed. If I could possibly understand what they are looking for in picking a fight I would like to avoid it happening, or least know how to play it correctly to come out on top and her pacified, but the whole thing makes absolutely no sense to me. You’ve articulated the connundrum well. If we consider women as a black box, and can only examine their inputs and outputs, then we find that there are inputs that lessen and even prevent their outbursts of anarchy. We can then develop a theory,… Read more »

BA
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BA
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We read the ‘Men are from Mars….’ drivel with typical results.

She then wanted to vent about problems at work and wanted me to just nod and agree with her and NOT offer solutions. I called BS. She gets to relieve the stress by talking about her problems, but I get to keep the stress by not offering solutions. No thanks.

I told her if she just wants someone to listen, she needs to call her Mom & sisters. If she want solutions, come talk to me.

Emrys
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Emrys
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I always thought man-cave was derived from Batcave, and as such denoted a zone of awesome. But I’m slightly culturally out of tune.

On the other hand, the last my wife threatened to make me sleep on the couch, I flopped down on the bed and told her ‘sure. Go get the couch for me.’

Last night she told me she would follow me anywhere. Coincidence?

Baffled
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That article is great, but doesn’t really explain the psychology behind needing indignation. What does she get out of picking a fight? Why do they always feel better from the fight? It is doing something for them, something that makes them feel better, but what? It certainly doesn’t really ever resolve any issues. And it is not a shit test, or a battle for the frame, or any of the other familiar items.

Rollo Tomassi
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You have to understand the need for indignation. I’ll put a post together detailing it a bit more, but when a woman has nothing but security it grates against that hypergamous testing instinct. If, like most betas think is best, you provide a woman with 100% security it conflicts with her impulse to test you, so she deliberately initiates discord in order to see how Mr. Dependable will react. She can’t test you for hypergamic fitness just relying on some organic circumstance to occur where she can evaluate your response under pressure. She needs to create that circumstance. Sometimes it… Read more »

Wilf
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Wilf
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@Baffled Maybe she needs to be dominated. In my Blue Pill days my wife and I had a lot of epic fights over nothing. It was the same pattern almost everytime, using certain triggers to draw me in. Sometimes it lasted what felt like hours. But once when it was very heated, I asked why the fuck do you do this. And she said, “I want to be dominated.” The hamster was exposed. Or, as Xsplat pointed out to me not long ago when I asked a similar question as yours, maybe she has BPD traits that just make her… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
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RE; Men are from Mars.

Consider that the book was written in the mid 90’s, the apex of social feminization. When you read it from a red pill perspective 20 years later, you will see what an abject mangina, feminine appeaser Gray really is. The book is marinated in the feminine imperative.

It wasn’t written to open a better egalitarian dialog between the sexes, it was written so men could better serve the feminine imperative. As I said, it’s a manual to build a better serving beta.

Baffled
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Baffled
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“when a woman has nothing but security it grates against that hypergamous testing instinct.”

I think this might be along the right path. My wife has total security (provided by me).

Wilf
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Wilf
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RE; Men are from Mars.

I just did a public library search for this book and found it at a branch down the street from my office. I’m going to pick it up on my lunch break. I’m looking forward to lots of laughs and chuckles.

Thomas Gray
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Thomas Gray
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Female frustration resulting in fights is mostly about reassurance that the man is still alpha towards/over her and that you are still hers or she yours (basicly it’s an attempt at gaining hand). This tantrum leads to stress release, relaxation, then sex. If you assert yourself as alpha that is. Wimpy beta’s will just be walked over. The solution to this would be to either keep hand at all times, or flare up your anger really quickly, really high the moment you sense she starts throwing a tantrum. This’ll shut her up quickest. Personally I’m the type who tries to… Read more »

Hero
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Hero
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@Baffled Stop trying to appease her and keep the peace. Call her on her shit and fight back. She’ll respect you more for it. Also, let your own drama happen. Stop trying to control yourself and your temper. Go ahead when you feel like getting mad about something. She’ll understand your boundaries better and she will identify with your emotional outburst. I find that women are a lot more fluid in their emotional outbursts. Their emotions rise up faster and fall off faster. They seem to feel much more at ease when you understand this. She’ll still love you when… Read more »

Hero
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Hero
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@Baffled

Oh yeah, and have some rough, selfish sex with her. Just watch how that changes her perspective.

Philalethes
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Philalethes
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When I was younger (decades, that is, before all this discussion of red pill & game) I used to wonder how it worked that some couples seemed to fight all the time, yet stayed together in seemingly “stable” relationships. Then I realized that fighting is a way of exchanging energy, and as a teacher of mine used to say, the unconscious mind doesn’t distinguish between pleasure and pain: it’s *intensity* it’s after; boredom, inactivity, no energy flowing is the killer. If a relationship has degenerated through over-familiarity to where there’s little communication, either verbal or physical, the unconscious may attempt… Read more »

Wilf
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Wilf
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FYI:

At CBC Radio there is a recent program regarding Free To Be You and Me:

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2012/12/04/the-free-to-be-you-and-me-movement/

I haven’t listened to it yet so can’t comment. I assume it will be a love-in.

Wilf
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Wilf
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Sorry everyone I meant to post this to Ian Ironwood’s site under his post regarding Free to be You and Me by Marlo Thomas.

You might want to delete this as it is appearing here completely in error and out of context.

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[…] Male puts out another killer post. Still a young man, I haven’t given much thought about man caves, and banishment to the couch […]

fedrz
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fedrz
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@ Philalethes,

Hello. I realize you don’t know me, but I sort of know you through reading you online.

If you read this, I wonder if you could be so kind as to shoot me a quick e-mail at robfedders@yahoo.ca.

Thanks.

gregariouswolf
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We’ve gone from king of the castle to troll in a cave.

The red pill must have been starting to take effect on me when my ex-wife suggested a man cave. At first I thought she meant the garage. When I fully understood her meaning, I balked. I was like, “you mean I get a room? In my house?” It’s exactly like having a child’s room. “That’s Greg’s room.” In a way this is more than shaming, it is infantilization.

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[…] Against the mancave. […]

Mina
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Mina
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What if the “Play room” with bar, pool table, big screen, Bose-speaker stereo setup, etc is something you both planned, worked on and created as a place for the two of you to host your private “party for two” two Saturday nights a month? We have a futon down there too and plenty of pillows, toys and other distractions once the music and hanging by the pool table have gotten us too horny to focus. I even have a special set of “pool shootin’ outfits” (slut wear) that he really likes and has “approved” for our weekend parties. Maybe the… Read more »

Gila
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Gila
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My husband’s man cave (horrible term – I agree, it’s disrespectful to men) is our entire house, but he is the master of the house, and that’s how we both like it. He’s never shown any interest in the garage. We both feel sorry for men we see in their garages on cold and rainy Sunday afternoons. Perhaps the garage is a blessed relief from the dragon indoors?

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[…] what men get in their man-space. Hooters, football, beer and boobs. Even in their ‘man-caves’ this is what a woman can expect to find. Left to their own devices, men would simply turn the world […]

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[…] Men in the Garage […]

Softek
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Softek
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My dad’s out in the garage a lot, but that’s because it’s where he keeps the table saw, bench grinder, and all his air and auto tools, and there hasn’t been a single day in my life I remember that he wasn’t working on something around the house. He’s done all of the electrical, plumbing, tiling, crown molding, etc. in our house. Everything. But the whole house in my dad’s space. My mom has dinner ready for him every night, cuts his hair, and makes his lunch for work every day. He loves my mom, and my mom respects him.… Read more »

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[…] the group of gamer nerds at the local game store, even strip clubs and the sanctuary you think your ‘man cave’ is – the context is one of women inserting themselves into male space in order to enforce the […]

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[…] I’m not a playboy. I don’t have the patience or passion to go out and try and bed hundreds of women for sport. That doesn’t mean the rules of the Red Pill can’t help me. In fact, they’ve helped me a lot, for which I’m grateful, because I refuse to end up a man in the garage. […]

Mister Alighieri
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I was married and owned a house. I had an office, a bar, a garage, and a theater room in the home. I decorated most of it myself. My former wife often suggested things, which I would certainly consider. But ultimately I made the call because I was the one doing the labor. I spend a lot of time in the garage working on my hobbies and projects. Is it my “Man Cave?” Not really. Though I know when I am out there no one is going to bother me. I think it is because everything in a garage is… Read more »

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[…] the group of gamer nerds at the local game store, even strip clubs and the sanctuary you think your ‘man cave’ is – the context is one of women inserting themselves into male space in order to enforce the […]

Porko
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Porko
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“In girl-world only men who are married are permitted to be happy”
Wrong.
In girl-world the only man who CAN BE happy is the one who keeps women incapable of sinking their claws in. Physically, legally, socially …
The happiness of a married man has a very short shelf life in girl-world. I’m awaiting your divorce, Rollo.

rugby11
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rugby11
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This really does hit it. Our main weakness as men lies within our inability to recognize when and how men are hated, we want so desperately to believe the illusion, we want so desperately to be liked and wanted and needed, that we have lost all sort of instinct for self preservation, to the point where we will literally jump in front of knives and bullets for women we dont even know. The system is not designed for male contentedness, it doesn’t want male happiness, it wants you to constantly feel incomplete, it thrives off of your insecurity , it… Read more »

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[…] we have generations of Men in the Garage who feel some desperate need to claw out a tiny space where they’re free to be men in a home […]

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[…] [4] The Men in the Garage by Rollo Tomassi […]

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