Beer and Boobs

I can remember watching a few episodes of The Man Show back in 2002 or 2003. I was finishing my degree at the time, and although I was much older than most of my college peers then, I actually had offers from fraternities to join during ‘rush’ week. I never took them up on it; my being at least 10 years older than even the oldest ‘brother’ didn’t sit right with me, and the fact I was working 40+ hours a week didn’t leave me much time to ‘go greek’. Of the few friends I had time for then, at least 4 were frat guys, and they loved The Man Show.

These guys knew of my interest in gender and personality studies in (my then minor) behavioral psychology, but it was mostly due to my presenting them with something they could agree with about how women were. They innocently suggested I check out The Man Show thinking I would be interested in it because “it’s finally a show for guys.” Back then I was dissecting the masculine ridicule and caricaturizations of male roles in movies and TV and these guys were enthusiastic about what I was writing and telling them.

I thought the show was pretty funny at first. I still love and reference Adam Carola, and his insights on gender. However, after watching the show for a while, something wasn’t sitting well for me. I couldn’t put my finger on it then, but at some point I thought, “man this is stupid, can’t we do better than this?” The realization I was making was if this was a “show for men” then men were, well, kind of stupid.

I was already well aware of the dumbing-down of the masculine roles in popular media (TV, movies, etc.), but when what was supposedly an exclusively male oriented show is offered it seems that masculine ridicule is only reaffirmed. I’m using The Man Show as an illustration of a bigger dynamic here – if all we had to go on was popular  (i.e. feminized) culture to help us characterize what is masculine then we’d be bad off enough, but it appears that men themselves are almost subconsciously complicit in reinforcing these feminine-defined cartoons of ‘how men really are.’

I love football. I would probably bore you to tears with my enthusiasm about next season and how the pre-season can’t get here soon enough. Ask me about baseball, I’ll tell you I like the Dodgers, but I know relatively nothing about America’s pastime. Soccer, golf, tennis, hockey, I couldn’t carry a conversation about any of them. I like big boobs (fake or real), I like women’s long legs and great assess. You all know I’ve worked in the liquor industry for over 9 years, so I have a vested interest in booze too. However, these natural interests of mine are only small component elements of who I am as a Man.

Granted, sex and alcohol seem to be the top two elements contributing to human happiness, but there is much more to me, much more to my existence as a man, than my base impulses. The problem with defining masculinity in terms of our root interests is that men begin to believe that’s all we have the potential for. For all of its social influence, the Feminine Imperative has no real frame of reference when it comes to the male experience. So in its effort to marginalize the masculine, effectively emasculating society, its only recourse is to define manhood in terms of what best demonizes masculinity. The Imperative can’t afford men to define masculinity for themselves, so the real roles of men are either ridiculous buffoons in need of uniquely feminine correction, or they’re boorish, brutes, poisoned by testosterone and little more than alcoholic, easily manipulable, walking hard-ons.

That’s what men get in their man-space. Hooters, football, beer and boobs. Even in their ‘man-caves’ this is what a woman can expect to find. Left to their own devices, men would simply turn the world into one grandiose Bro-Culture. Nowhere will you find the dreamers, the leaders, the thinkers, the artists or engineers – in girl-world, the majority of men are either pigs or damaged goods.

But if the Feminine Imperative is anything, it’s self-effacing and self-contradicting. According to the Feminine Imperative, for all of the feral worst it characterizes masculinity as, it’s not enough to accept men’s nature as so. You see nothing, not even the feminine reinforced pig-man nature is actually real, it’s just a mask men are socialized to wear.

So what is real masculinity? Make no mistake, the confusing redefinition of masculinity is a deliberate effort in social control on the part of the Feminine Imperative. Pointing out its schizophrenic misunderstanding (or intentional distortion) of the masculine is easy enough, but men have unwittingly adopted and reinforced their own gender role confusion. Either by embracing the Bro-Culture lie or by subscribing wholesale to the feminine identification of what masculinity should be, men are complicit in limiting themselves from defining masculinity for themselves.

Understand this now, a fem-centric society wants you to believe that masculinity is loutish, beer-swilling frat boys AND horribly damaged male psyches socialized into being so. A fem-centric society can’t afford to allow men to self-define masculinity, because it throws that deep feminine need for security and control over to the men they cannot trust because of the same definition it encourages for its own control.


62 responses to “Beer and Boobs

  • donalgraeme

    I suppose I should be the first to plug ancient philosophy and how much of it sought to answer the question of “So what is real masculinity.”

    That we even have a choice in how to define masculinity is one of the greatest gifts of the Red Pill.

  • Miguel

    I really find no reason to disagree with you. I may be a little off topic here, but do you have an article where you talk about specifically why these ideas are “dangerous” to mainstream, according to them, the mainstream? The reason I ask is because I read an article on i09 and I really like the articles I get from them. But then I read this article about evolutionary psychology douchebags and the entire article along with the comments basically demonize PUAs and MRAs and men who study these gender issues, even along with criticizing Steven Pinker. Well, some of the comments criticized Pinker but the actual article itself does not.

    (Here is the article.)
    http://io9.com/the-rise-of-the-evolutionary-psychology-douchebag-757550990

    So now I read your article and I’m like, man, but what this guy is saying is true. I agree with his assertions about how the media paints men in a whimsical comical fashion. It offends me mostly because of my own father how he was as a man and how so many other men looked up to him because he literally is THE SHIT.

    I’ve argued with a close friend and co-worker of mine. He gets agitated for whatever reason it is when I tell him about things that I believe concerning genders. For example, I tell him that I hate how society wants to demonize men for having strong sexual desires and that I feel he should not suppress his desires for his own girlfriend. He gets upset and says that that is objectification of a woman. And I feel as though he ridicules me because I have no say on the subject simply because he majored in anthropology and I virtually have no degree whatsoever. I think its a bit immature of him to take that attitude, but I also feel that its condescending in a way. And then I read how polarizing both sides can be and how strong opinions they have against each other, both sides being the manosphere and mainstream.

    This particular friend of mine once asked me what I wanted from society or what I felt society owed to me. I didn’t even know how to answer that question. Tell me if I am wrong, but to me I felt that he was wrong in asking that question. I don’t feel society owes me anything as a man. I simply want it to get the fuck out the way and let me be a man.

  • Shawn

    @ Miguel

    I could’nt help but substitute the word socirty in your post with female imperative.

  • Shawn

    Meant society, one beer too many.

  • Rhett

    I believe the definition of a man is actually very simple. He is a leader and a creator. Anything that supports those two traits is healthy masculinity. Anything that damages those two traits is destructive to a man’s purpose and potential. Many of the things that the Bro Culture defines as masculine are actually quite destructive to true masculinity. Drinking yourself into a stupor leads to a loss of leadership and creativity. Sitting around watching other people play sports while you cheer from a couch is not actually a masculine trait, it is sign of being a follower. A real man develops leadership and creative skills through competition, by actually being on the field.

    I believe that these two traits — leadership and creativity — are suppressed by society because average people are afraid of those that lead and create. People with those traits change the world, and are a threat both to those who are currently in power as well as to those who prefer a life of quiet stagnation to the uncertainty created by change. In that sense, it is not just the Feminine Imperative that seeks to emasculate men, it is also other men who have managed to get to the top of society and are threatened by those beneath them that have traits to one day replace them as the boss.

    That is why power structures always promote the Bread and Circus policy of dumbing down the masses. But as history shows, whenever a society feminizes its men so that they lose their drive for leadership and creativity, it is always eclipsed by the rise of new society dominated by men who show those traits. As a Muslim, let me use the history of medieval Islam as a perfect example. As long as Arabs were leaders and creators in the arts and sciences, they dominated the world. When they started to stagnate around the 11th and 12th centuries, preferring to rest in luxury on the laurels of their ancestors, the Arabs were conquered by more virile cultures. First the Mongols destroyed Baghdad (and if there was ever a MAN, it was Genghis Khan) and then the Turks, with their warrior ethos, replaced Arabs as the leaders of Islam, creating an empire that ruled the Middle East and half of Europe for 600 years.

    Much of the problem in the current Middle East is that the masculine Turks were defeated in World War I, and the region came back under the rule of Arabs who have by now lost touch with their confidence and creative genius. The discovery of oil has made things worse by creating a ruling class that is based on unearned wealth. A culture that has forgotten how to lead suddenly wins the global lottery and feels no incentive to change or grow. The arrogance and entitlement of the ruling Kings and Emirs of the Gulf is actually the ultimate triumph of the Feminine Imperative. If you meet “men” from these sheikdoms, they come across as feminine prima donnas, showing off their Lamborghinis and bling like sorority sisters trying to out-Mean-Girl each other. The only hope for the future of the Islamic world is the return to the principles of masculinity that were exhibited by its founding generations — leadership and creativity. Currently, that masculine sprit exists still among the Turks, as well as in Indonesia and West Africa, places that will compete for the leadership of Islam when the Arab oil lottery is finally exhausted.

    While medieval Baghdad may seem like a strange analogy for the United States, I think the comparison is fair. Both the Feminine Imperative and our entrenched economic elites want the average man to remain a follower. And a day will come when there will be no more leaders left and American society will be eclipsed by more masculine civilizations. My bet is on cultures like the Chinese, and yes, the Turks, to offer us that moment one day soon when we see the Mongol warriors at the gates of our civilization.

  • The Association of Chronos

    Damn….

    There is always that one article every once in awhile that just hits you with the knowledge with such a simple, black and white rawness to it.

    You can use this article for the men in Hip-Hop culture (Like me but, I am now old enough to separate myself from it and try an find out who I am)…. But, damn. I realize that all of who I thought I was, or was trying to act like was just a manufactured version of masculinity. I now just take things that can help guide me further on my path to better myself but, when I look around an see how some men act it is quite a dark feeling.

    “Return of Kings” just did a article like this last night. It lines up perfect with this one…. (American Masculinity Is Based On Female Approval.)

    We as men have to define what masculinity is. Plain an simple. “The Man Show” was cool. I without a question enjoyed it when I was younger but, after articles like this, and the one on ROK, I can’t help but look at that, and other outlets in Media claiming what a “Real Man is suppose to do” a lot different. Almost a quiet and lost laughter until I complete my path.

  • Wolf

    “For all of its social influence, the Feminine Imperative has no real frame of reference when it comes to the male experience.”

    Damn, this paragraph, particularly this first sentence is pure insight genius. Women have no conception of men’s truly rich inner lives (Women have told me that “men are emotionally simple”) and thus their portrayal of men is merely a caricature. If men submit to that viewpoint, we’re doomed.

  • Lion

    I miss The Man Show.

  • Yep It's Me

    I going to write another comment, later when I have time, but in the meantime, I just had an observation (it hit me reading Miguel’s comment above) about the use of the word “douchebag” to reference Men of a certain character set (it’s a dynamic list, maybe Rollo should write and article about the word and it’s use).

    But thinking about it, a douche bag was used to clean a woman’s vagina – and we all know how Men (the majority at least) like vaginas – and we’d all like a clean one – so why is it a derogatory term. Do women had their vaginas? do they not like clean ones? do they not like to be reminded that a clean vagina is a happy vagina and Men like happy vaginas?

    Just an observation on why a douce bag is bad thing and calling a Man one is one of the “worst” things (but yet acceptable) a woman can call a Man.

  • cryo

    “But then I read this article about evolutionary psychology douchebags and the entire article along with the comments basically demonize PUAs and MRAs and men who study these gender issues, even along with criticizing Steven Pinker.”

    io9 is a branch of the Gawker network, the same network that publishes Jezebel. It is not uncommon for these writers to churn out click-bait hit pieces on topics that don’t fit tidily into the multicultural feminist Narrative. They attack evo psych with full force because they can see the truth in it.

  • Yep It's Me

    In the comment above – I meant to say “Do women hate their vaginas?” — just wanted to clear that up. Rollo you need an edit button on the comments – I hate the fact that my rough draft is what is published – all I want to do it go back and edit them to correct my stream of consciousness. But then again, maybe that’s the point.

  • Miguel

    cryo, I didn’t know i09 was in the same network as Gawker. I unsubscribed from Gawker, because of the bullshit I’d read from them much of the same way I’d unsubscribed from Huffington Post. Most of the things they’d write about simply offended me, not merely on gender issues but on a wide range of issues. I don’t know. I guess I’m not as liberal as I thought.

    I like reading i09 because of there articles on science or just weird quirky findings around the world. I’ll keep reading it but if I see it turning into another Gawker, I’ll unsubscribe.

  • Dan

    That last sentence is confused

  • Garth Pagan

    Remember when remarks or references to black people enjoying watermelon and fried chicken were condemned as racist? I see the same thing in the stereotype of the boorish, dim-witted white male who is all about beer and boobies and sports. Just as the black man is considered to be debased because he has “debased” tastes (as opposed to his white “betters”), the same goes for the white man who needs rescuing by his sensible, ever-practical woman. It’s another form of Step’n Fetchit minstrelry, with white men as the butt of the joke. But since white men are held responsible for all that’s evil and wrong in the world, it’s okay. How one could do all that evil from a basement man cave, drunk and giggling at the girls in the beer commercials, is not explained. Of course, it doesn’t have to be, Bigotry isn’t supposed to make sense.

  • Keanu

    I’m hoping the layoff between now and your last post is because you were working on the book.

    [Yep. Pretty much all I've done since May actually.]

    I didn’t know you had actually studied masculinity in an academic environment, but it makes sense given the tone of your writing. I like when you include self reflections about your earlier life as in this guy.

    So I was in the Peace Corps in South America for 2 years, and the 3rd world nature of gender roles actually kicked off my interest in the red pill, as I had seen how far the pendulum had swung in the U.S in that everything we do bows to the feminine vision of society. In the Peace Corps, one of our stated goals was to ‘work toward gender equality,’ or in other words, to make schools in this particular country more accommodating to females at all levels of school. When I got to my site, however, who was it that was dropping out of school in greater numbers? The males! SHOCKING. Yet do a cursory glance at the stated agenda of the majority of international non-profits, and you will see that the goal is explicitly to bring more economic power to women, because of studies that show how women in 3rd world countries are more likely to invest that money back into their family and the community, and men are more likely to invest in (TADAH) Booze, gambling, and other Man-show esque activities. I’m not really arguing with this study…but there are so many international organizations that want to empower women, and virtually none that focus on empowering men, or helping men exclusively, or trying to make THEM make more responsible choices.

    Make no mistake, this is the explicit exportation of the U.S. feminist agenda. And when 3rd world gender roles and masculinity meets the birth control pill & 1st world attitudes about sex, some crazy shit happens from a sexual societal standpoint (SHOCKING! to steal an old Carolla quote).

    I presented the idea of a gender bias in international development organizations at a conference with some other Peace Corps Volunteers a couple of weekends ago in Boston. I said that I am looking into grad schools and professors who might be into researching this topic, as if I go to grad school it would be for this subject and I would aim to have a book completed on the topic when I got out.

    Quite a few volunteers looked at me like I was fucking nuts. But then a few came up to me after I spoke, and individually told me that what I had said was spot on in their experience.

    My thing though, Rollo, is that what is the best way to ‘fight feminism’ or whatever the fuck you want to call what could be done to help guys get off of worrying about their inner masculinity so much?

    In my conversations with girls and guys steeped in it, logic simply does not work. I could give examples but I don’t think it’s a point that many here would argue with. Is there even a point to fighting the fem bias in academia? I almost see it as a pointless endeavor. But people take whatever socio-gender study is done by a professor and suddenly it’s
    “Science” proving that the patriarchy is evil.

    You are almost just better off worrying about your own life, learning game etc. and trying to find one of the rare feminine gems to marry in this country, or going foreign. But what does it matter if your sons and daughters will be brought up in a culture that you do not endorse? Is this just futile resistance to a giant fem-centric steamroller that will probably not be stopped? What is the call to action aside from the way you live your own life?

    @Rhett I like the Leader and Creator interpretation.

  • Matthew King

    From the last thread, I’d just like to say: Earl is the man.

    It’s about time someone else cut through the rancid fart-air of mass sycophancy these sites tend to develop.

    This isn’t ninth grade, gentlemen. We don’t have to pretend sex is the meaning of life because we haven’t had it yet. Same thing with pedestalizing the pussy: just because most wannabe Lotharios haven’t gotten their “flags” or sufficient “notches,” it doesn’t take a genius to understand that cunt-friction cannot possibly form the basis for the meaning of life. A man doesn’t have to run headlong into the ennui out of a sense of lost youth; he should’ve figured out the inevitable disappointment on his own the fifth time he got his dick wet.

    Men need sex like they need to urinate? We used to have a term for this incontinent condition: “pussy whipped.” (Before PUA catalogers appropriated to themselves the redefinition of all terms.) Jack off on a towel or into latex or on a woman’s face. They are all servile self-abuse, the slavery to a biological urge no different from fat women eating too much cake.

    Rally to Earl. He gets it. He is facing his mortality in time to do something with it, whereas others are encouraging you to escape into the divertissements that do not quench but rather make you thirstier.

    Speaking of “diversions,” did someone mention beer and boobs?

    Matt

  • RyRy

    Rollo,

    First off thank you for this blog it is a public service for men and has helped me(23yo male) greatly. One thing I don’t understand about the manosphere is the constant need to define masculinity and “Alpha”, you made it clear in other posts that men define what is feminine for women(youth and beauty) due to our biological programming. Is the same not true for women? Females have certain biologically programmed needs that have to be met and is that not what determines what is to be defined as masculine? I agree “Bro culture” is stupid as shit but it fulfills female desires(Bros are social and provide entertainment/drama). I think the idea that women give a shit what men think is masculine is silly; if it does not provide social benefits/money/status/etc. then it is not masculine. We are all very quick to point out the absurdity of women thinking a good career will land them the man of their dreams so why do men think their superior morality or some other bullshit quality should attract women?

  • booger

    RyRy,

    If a man believes in a superior morality it is his right to stand by his principle regardless of what other men and especially what women think. That is true masculinity.

    You cannot just flip masculinity and femininity around, they don’t work that way — one is active, the other is reactive.

    Do not mold yourself to attract women — that is the common mistake of beginners in PUA.

    Shape yourself to be the beast and other stuff becomes icing on the cake… and entrance to your world should be by your invitation only. Thugs think themselves they are the beast so they naturally attract women, so in principle righteous men should as well — there’s just these not too minor doctrines called humility and supplication that get in the way.

  • Yep It's Me

    One of the things that I’ve been trying to figure out (and by the comments above, other’s have the same question) is…

    Where is the real conversation happening?

    I read blog posts, then read through the comments – post my own comments from time to time – but that is mostly a very serial thing, with limited “interactivity”. I post, you post, I read, I comment, you comment – it’s all a series of things – but I want a real conversation, a real sit down, a real sharing in real time about this stuff. And might I add, without the interruption of women around – because I don’t care what their point of view is. So, where is this real-time conversation going on – I’m tired of reading about it – I want to experience it and be part of it.

    Please point me in the right direction. And if there isn’t a place today – then my question is WHY NOT?

  • booger

    @Keanu >>

    I live in one of those 3rd world nations being targeted by gendered assistance. Girls already outperform boys in all areas in life, and women earn the majority of income except for the handful of patriarchs (usually Chinese) who own the conglomerates. (And of course, through Apex Fallacy, the citizens look at “oh those rich Chinese men and their teen concubines” and blame the patriarchy).

    Since there is technically nothing further to do to make the girls get a leg up, the current agenda is to teach androgyny by total elimination of teaching of any form of gender roles. I encountered a public school teacher compiling slides — guess her sources were? 1st and 2nd wave feminist scholars. Good lord it’s only the beginning here.

  • Yep It's Me

    OK – I work in the world of IT – and thought this article was interesting (Rollo feel free to delete the comment if it’s too much off topic)…

    Bowdoin College CIO Mitch Davis makes everyone uncomfortable–and it works
    By Derek C. Slater

    Need to promote change in your organization?
    David Carr’s profile of Bowdoin College CIO Mitch Davis is rich in ideas for accomplishing that. But you’ll have to be ready to introduce lots and lots of friction.
    “People are freaking pattern engines. If I can take them out of an element where they’re used to injecting patterns, I can get them thinking,” Davis tells Carr. “What I try to do is make work a little uncomfortable every day, for everybody.”
    Davis’s number one method for doing this is to disagree with anyone and everyone. Frequently. “The people I argue with, I respect,” says Davis, noting that ideas need the test of critical examination.
    A few of the article’s many ideas to consider:
    • Walking meetings. At his previous position at Stanford, Davis conducted staff meetings in motion, walking his team around a four-mile campus loop. The goals were to get in better physical condition and to spark new thinking by changing the physical setting.
    • “Marketing by deprivation.” Davis says over-communication at the front end of a project achieves buy-in–that’s not surprising. But he goes further, initiating conversation after conversation, to such an extent that he says people get sick of talking about the issue and just want something to get done already.
    • Training IT staff in presentation skills and no-jargon communication. Formal training of this sort is a requirement for Bowdoin’s technology team; without it, they aren’t allowed to speak on behalf of the group.

  • Thrall

    There’s a term used to describe the operation of my local metro rail service: Build Operate Transfer (BOT). Usually a foreign-linked private firm will invest and construct the infrastructure and operate it for a few years, after which it will hand over the reins to the local government body who will usually proceed to run it like crap.

    BOT aptly describes what has happened to our society, now being run by people who are either too stupid, too evil, or both. That is not to say that some of the midlevel people aren’t smart, but the people on top are the ones who create the policies.

    I guess the big question, assuming we’re of the original company that created the infrastructure for society — what are we supposed to do now, besides twiddling our thumbs?

    Everything in society is now the domain of women:
    * conception, birth, childhood : domain of women for thousands of years
    * the home and hearth: domain of women throughout the industrial revolution
    * the workplace: majority domain of women today since 1970s.

    In fact, this whole society is the triumph of feminine imperative Gathering Culture (supermarkets, shopping malls, consumer culture). The only remnants of male Hunting Culture lie in video games and hermits who try to live off the land… and they’re both being persecuted with extreme prejudice.

    There is frankly nothing left save inventing warp drive so we can ship ourselves off this planet (preferably people with XY chromosomes only; might as well create logical females now how’s that for equality.)

    Personally, I’m just waiting for sexbots. I already live like a king; I have the ff:
    – a slave to circulate air so I won’t perspire (called an electric fan)
    – a court jester to keep me entertained (called the TV / PC / PS3)
    – a cook to prepare my meals (called McDelivery)
    – a cleaner of my house (hire someone at minimum wage)

    Most importantly, clean, disease-free water, plumbing, heating/cooling, competent medical personel (even if the actual health care plan is shit).

    The only thing kings of old had that I don’t (since I have only minimal Game) are harems.

  • Dave

    Mass media has to aim for the lowest common denominator. To attract the maximum number of male viewers, concentrate on beer, football, and balloon-smuggling babes. At higher cognitive levels, men are too diverse to target — some build motorcycle transmissions, some tie fish lures, some write Linux device drivers, etc.

    It’s easier to cater to women because they’re more homogeneous. They never get bored with diet tips, relationship advice, and celebrity gossip.

  • HanSolo

    @Association of Chronos

    The interesting thing is that in most cases men are following what the female herd demands. Even many alphas are doing this, though it tends to be in more sexy and powerful ways, and some alpha behavior is just because they really want to be that way.

    It’s really only when you get to the apex alpha males where men are the more influential ones and not only influence other men but also the whole female herd.

    Look at how the pop culture apex alphas want slutty women that give it up easy and how so many female popstars respond, along with so many lower-value women that either fantasize about the apex alphas or want to be like the famous women or simply just want to be accepted by the female herd.

    I write about this in the link in my username so feel free to take a look.

  • HanSolo

    @Rollo

    I think that it’s important to realize–as you allude to–that feminists do not want men to fully achieve so that there is less competition for feminist women to achieve career success and political power.

    And the apex alphas and even many alpha and greater-beta males are happy that so many men are deemed unattractive so that they can have either the best women or a large quantity of women to themselves.

    The alliance of the “top” men (as defined by society today, whether or not one thinks such men should be valued so highly) with feminist and hypergamous and slutty women is one of the most important things to realize in today’s sexual market.

  • HanSolo

    So if feminists can get men to just buy into beer-drinking culture and not achieve anything then it opens the way for them to take more power.

    I suppose this will butt up with the reality of less tax receipts for fem-focused gov’t spending and less providers to marry eventually but feminists are often known for not caring about some of the long-term consequences of their actions.

  • HanSolo

    @yep it’s me

    Feel free to check out justfourguys where I and three other guys post. There’s fairly good conversation there and usually someone responds to what others say.

  • Fred Flange, Ivanovich

    I’ll give Jimmy and Adam a pass; their show was one of the first out of the block, they were’nt sure quite how offensive they could be and stay on the air, its writing was hit or miss, but it could be genuinely funny. Jimmy Kimmel in particular likes to present himself as a dumb jock (he did this even more when co-hosting “Win Ben Stein’s Money”). Bill Burr still does it too; it’s his pressure relief valve for red-pill material, then defusing it with “but what do I know, I’m an asshole.” Howard Stern also is a master at this, he can be nasty, then deflect it by bursting his own balloon. A decades-old stand-up tactic.

  • CrisisEraDynamo

    Look at this comment thread.

    http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2013/07/15/politics-and-feminism/feminisms-marketing-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-222312

    Susan literally does not want me or any other commenter questioning the value of marriage for a man.

  • CrisisEraDynamo

    I posted it to show that she is a strong believer in the good of the Feminine Imperative.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    And this surprises who? Heheh,.

  • RyRy

    @booger

    Yes it is a man’s right to have his own moral code, I agree, what I was trying to say is that morality is not intrinsically sexually appealing to women and it does no one any good to pretend that it is.I feel you are correct about pick up as well; without improving yourself it is really just an inefficient numbers game. I think the confusion we have comes from men confusing honorable behavior with masculinity. Honor is a good characteristic that is valued by society and other men, masculinity is strictly sexual and is defined by women. Honor and masculinity are separate concepts.

    Morality and honor are fine but I think it should be made clear women do not care. As a reformed “white knight” I can tell you most chivalrous behavior comes from the delusion that the “right girl” will notice.

  • Immediate

    There was a great skit on the Man Show once where they went to a mall and asked women “if there was a pill that made you smarter, but it made your ass fatter, would you take it?” Can’t find it too easily on YouTube right now.

    Of course some women in ghetto fabulous culture now probably want fatter asses.

  • Sam Spade

    Feminists may have attempted to warp the definition of masculinity, but females still determine what is masculine. Art, leadership, strength, and wisdom are all great byproducts, but the only real metric is a wet vagina. Skyscrapers and satellites aren’t built because men are bored. By that same virtue, men determine what is feminine. I’m not saying this to sound like a Bro, I’m saying it because everything always boils down to sex. Fortunately for men, what women find “masculine” can run the gamut from brutish or downright savage to intellectual and polite. There just needs to be a few common denominators present.

  • Mark Minter

    Rollo,

    I’m sorry but I like me some titties.

    In fact, I got this theory that the whole Economic Stimulus package passed during the worst days of the recession just missed on the very thing I think would have quickly ended this recession overnight.

    Boob jobs for women.

    That’s right. If the stimulus package would have paid for boob jobs, then unemployment among men would have ended practically overnight.

    So you’re living at home in mom’s basement and got nothing to lose, then hey, you stay down their till the unemployment runs out. You get the check, buy a quarter ounce of pot, some Totino’s pizzas, some Ramen, and with porn, video games, and the internet you can do OK.

    But Rollo, man, if all the bitches had titties, big ones, great perfect motherfuckers, then all the men would have a fucking reason to get up and be somebody.

    And for women to be able to snag you, get those claws into you addict you, some boobs would be most effective. And then the drop in the marriage rate, I would say the bitches have been, frankly, doing a very horrible job. Those men have been wising up.

    We have all talked about incentives and motivations as the driving factor in men. And for now, looking at what is walking around this country, there isn’t a lot of that.

    But if they had titties, then overnight, then the men come charging out of their mother’s basement with big eyes and do something about their employment situation, start companies, invent shit, and get all busy with changing the world and all that.

    And then marriage rates go up cause everybody knows us dumb motherfuckers will anything for some titties.

    The housing surplus goes to zero as those women threatened “No house, no titties”.

    Kids get born.

    Demand goes through the roof.

    And poof overnight, no recession.

    Never underestimate the power that titties can have in service of the Feminine Imperative.

    I mean a guy could ask a friend “Hey, I’m going to chainsaw juggling practice. The teacher, Stumpy, is pretty good. Wanna go?”

    And the friend says “Juggling chainsaws? I don’t think so”

    And the guy could say “But there will be girls there with big titties”

    And the friend replies “Hey, we ain’t there yet?”

    So that’s my plan for economic stimulus.

    And a better world.

    Boob jobs.

  • Marcus666

    This is not very correct. Beer is there for a reason. When I started to go to big brothels I was amazed that once men start to get laid with incredible hot woman they don’t have the need anymore to use any narcotics. Alcohol is free in those places, you can drink yourself drunk if you want to, but the point is: nobody does that. They fuck a model or two, lie around, eat a steak, and socialize with their fellow men and discuss businesses and watch soccer. When you observe this behavior you really understand that everything guys do is in function of getting woman. After this is met, there is nothing more needed in life than waiting, relaxing and building up your energy for the next fuck-session. The girls in that environment do the only thing they can do and are supposed to do: be sexy and find some guys to be safe with.

    If you go into nightlife you notice that the drug-users and heavy drinkers are mainly young males. The females stand around, sober, trying to get their ego satisfied by guys that hit on them and then go home… with their girlfriends. While the males can’t take the disappointment of having no sex and go into drugs to numb their ego. Why do you think USA&NATO invaded Afghanistan? Drugs is the ultimate consumption. It’s what makes people unhappy and sexless, thus controllable. Why do nightclubs&bars exist? To sell overpriced alcohol by sub-ducting the possibility for normal universal social contact

    Seriously, the only power woman have is the power we gave them. Nightclubs, universities, schools, companies … the entire society is set up in function of getting woman. After the need of effortless sex is met, men tend to avoid woman, relax and enjoy life.

  • Different T

    I think the confusion we have comes from men confusing honorable behavior with masculinity. Honor is a good characteristic that is valued by society and other men, masculinity is strictly sexual and is defined by women.

    Masculinity: set of qualities, characteristics or roles generally considered typical of, or appropriate to, a man.

    ———————–

    When you observe this behavior you really understand that everything guys do is in function of getting woman. After this is met, there is nothing more needed in life than waiting, relaxing and building up your energy for the next fuck-session.

    You ought to reconsider the selection-bias present in that environment. It has dramatic impact on your conclusions.

  • Stingray

    but feminists are often known for not caring about some of the long-term consequences of their actions.

    I think you give too much credit. They do not have any thought for long term consequences of their actions because their thoughts are stuck on should instead of will.

  • Ton

    The real problem with discussing manhood and what is masculine is usually the dudes doing the talking have done nothing that requires balls. Once you’ve made a habit of taking risks, overcoming obstacles that pose a real threat to your life and health… well then you know and you don’t much care what folks have to say on the topic

  • cervantesscthreec

    Wait so is this post saying that the current booze nations out there are a result of femcentric conditioning? Unbelievable.

    Don’t want to be off topic here, but I recently went on a night out where there was a lot of booze, me and another girl remained sober throughout it, and I ended up making out with her and another girl. Now 2 days later I saw my ex and told her about my antics for the sake of it (she asked I replied). I’m guessing that didn’t matter, but I was wondering, I’ve read the Iron rules post and one says this:

    “The single most disastrous AFC move a man can make is to OVERTLY describe past sexual experiences to how many women he’s been with prior to the one he’s with.”

    If I was still in a relationship with her, should I have told her what I had done? In other words, is honesty the best policy in a relationship?

  • RyRy

    “The real problem with discussing manhood and what is masculine is usually the dudes doing the talking have done nothing that requires balls. Once you’ve made a habit of taking risks, overcoming obstacles that pose a real threat to your life and health… well then you know and you don’t much care what folks have to say on the topic”

    Great point, why are we discussing masculinity on a blog about masculinity? Totally beta bro. I’m gonna go put a chaw o’ tobakky in and drag my giant balls off to a bar fight. Thinking is for pussies. John Wayne.

  • orion

    @Matthew King

    “Men need sex like they need to urinate? We used to have a term for this incontinent condition: “pussy whipped.” (Before PUA catalogers appropriated to themselves the redefinition of all terms.) Jack off on a towel or into latex or on a woman’s face. They are all servile self-abuse, the slavery to a biological urge no different from fat women eating too much cake.”

    No.

    Pussy whipped refers to supplicating to the owner of a specific pussy, in order to ensure further access to said pussy.

    That is a very far cry from maximizing your potential to get pussy without having to get it from any specific pussy owner.

    Your argument makes some sense if you are legally married, because those guys do have a gun pointed at them, the solution is simple, dont marry.

    To get access to pussy on your terms and to ditch any woman that prices herself out of the market is not only not pandering to pussy, it also is a potential learning experience for the woman involved,

  • HanSolo

    @Stingray

    I think that some of the more cunning feminists are able to see that by demonizing men and boys they will push them out of university and the workforce and leave more slots open for women. That by creep shaming they will make it so that only the Tom Bradys can approach and satisfy their hypergamy (see SNL skit). That by saying women need to put career above relationships and kids (see Atlantic and Salon articles) that many of the over-achiever types that want to be part of the feminist female herd will subdue their natural desires for reln and kids and lean in, thus bringing more collective power to feminist women.

    So, that’s why I believe it’s a mix. Some of the things they’re striving for and have caused are intentional and some things are not.

  • Corey

    @Miguel

    “I’ve argued with a close friend and co-worker of mine. He gets agitated for whatever reason it is when I tell him about things that I believe concerning genders. For example, I tell him that I hate how society wants to demonize men for having strong sexual desires and that I feel he should not suppress his desires for his own girlfriend. He gets upset and says that that is objectification of a woman. And I feel as though he ridicules me because I have no say on the subject simply because he majored in anthropology and I virtually have no degree whatsoever. I think its a bit immature of him to take that attitude, but I also feel that its condescending in a way.”

    This attitude is very common among college kids these days. They have no critical thinking skills and simply parrot politically correct cliches with no thought or meditation. They’ll act hostile to anyone who challenges their preconceived notions and will respond with all sorts of logical fallacies. First they’ll say your argument is “offensive”, which is an appeal to pity fallacy. They’ll also frame your argument with anti-concepts like “objectification”, words and phrases that have a negative tone, but have no real meaning. When all else fails, they’ll use the appeal to authority argument e.g. flashing their credentials at you and condescendingly reminding you that they’re “educated” and you’re not.

    All of this is an attempt to shut down any real debate. In today’s Orwellian world, intellectual curiosity is discouraged in academia.

    If your “educated” friend is truly confident that his views on gender issues are superior to yours, then he should be able to explain it to any “uneducated” layman, because as Einstein once said, a theory that isn’t simple enough to explain to a child is probably incorrect anyway.

  • Miguel

    Corey, thanks. You’re the first to respond to my questions directly. It clears up a few things. I refer to my father quite often for one pure simple reason, that he epitomizes everything that American Western Cultures speak out against. But the thing is that women love my father. It’s amazing how much they respect him and how many look up to him. I tell my friend that there aren’t many men that way… but it seems to fly over his head or he’s just in cognitive dissonance or something. I tell him that my father cheated on his wife twice…. on the second time, I was born and his first wife still stayed with him and raised me. There aren’t many men these days who can get away with shit like that and still be considered honorable respectable men.

    I get why my father was a bit tough on my brother and I. My theory is because he wanted us to be tough like him… but I think where my father failed is that he should have befriended us and gained our trust instead of being too overbearing and over protective towards us.

    I have been working out my own issues trying to assess where my problems are, or trying to put myself out there. Its tough being in this society because you can’t really talk to anybody. My father is too old now to even care.

    I read that book “The Way of the Superior Man” and the book talks about living as though your father were dead. It sounds morbid but I can see its value in that mindset. There are deep inner levels of me that I want to explore and I’ve been focusing on those things like traveling or continuing my career as a filmmaker and increasing my income. I’ve moved on from worrying about women and getting dates. I want to invest in myself more.

    So if I can summarize anything from all that’s been said, I completely agreed with Rollo and it spoke to a deep part of me, because women just don’t know or seem to care the depth or struggles that a man must go through just to be taken noticed by them. Being a man, or being masculine is real deep shit. There is no way to assess masculinity. We’re complex human beings with complex emotions. Our brains are more complicated than an entire galaxy. It’s why we have religions. It’s why the Bible talks about shit like it does, “deep calls unto the deep at the sound of your cascades”. That’s why buddhists talk about the yin and yang of life. Male and female: true equality takes a shit load of a fucking saint to truly embody. Meditation and all is no joke.

    I just wanted to throw it all out there.

  • cervantesscthree

    @ Miguel

    “So if I can summarize anything from all that’s been said, I completely agreed with Rollo and it spoke to a deep part of me, because women just don’t know or seem to care the depth or struggles that a man must go through just to be taken noticed by them. Being a man, or being masculine is real deep shit. There is no way to assess masculinity. We’re complex human beings with complex emotions. Our brains are more complicated than an entire galaxy. It’s why we have religions. It’s why the Bible talks about shit like it does, “deep calls unto the deep at the sound of your cascades”. That’s why buddhists talk about the yin and yang of life. Male and female: true equality takes a shit load of a fucking saint to truly embody. Meditation and all is no joke.”

    Well said, pure truth in that.

  • Yep It's Me

    @Miguel

    I’m assuming you’re under the age of 30 – rejoice in the fact that you have recognized some very fundamental truths about the depths of who you really are. Much like dealing with women on certain subjects – the friend you describe may not get it (now or ever) – and arguments, debates, or protests will not sway him or anyone else. Much like all truth in the world, it has to be discovered, synthesized and then integrated into someone’s life. As the old saying goes…”You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink”.

    As far as your father is concerned, I will tell you from personal experience that the “Father/Son” relationship is very complicated (and I have seen it from both sides now). We (as sons) tend to have a love/hate relationship with our fathers, we also at some point, will come to the realization that our fathers are human, not these “bigger than life” figures we created in our minds. That “fall from grace” creates a cognitive dissonance within out – when reality and fantasy churn and mingle – never quite mixing – thus, creating a relationship filled with anger, joy, love and hate.

    Now as a Father, I can tell you all I have is love for my sons – I want the best for them, I want them to challenge themselves to be the best they can, to follow their hearts – to be Men. Not to ratchet up a notch count, but because if they live that way, they will have lived a life or more real joy and less pain – and that’s the kind of life I want for them. I want them to struggle, to achieve, to fail, to fall down – but only if they are willing to get up, brush themselves off and try again.

    And while your father is still alive, take the opportunity to learn anything you can from him. Ask him to share stories, ask him why he did certain things, seek any wisdom he might be willing to share. Debate with him, argue, discuss – there’s still value in the relationship, go ahead and explore it.

  • Yep It's Me

    @Rollo

    // HIJACK

    Today was the first time I’ve visited Athol Kay’s blog since he revamped his “MAP” and generalized it for “to appeal to a larger audience”. And you know, the teeth are being ripped out of the lion’s month at an ever increasing rate.

    I really respected what he wrote in MMSLP, but not liking the “new and improved” version. He was helping Husbands to get a better relationship through creating a better “them” – but now the women are in the room, and the men are shutting up and sitting down, being polite and systematically being moved to the back of the room and out of the conversation.

    I feel for anyone trying to make a buck off Men – it can happen, but we are tough lot to sell to. Women on the other hand, give them a new and shiny object, accompanied with their very own soap box, and you can make a bundle.

    The profit motive is tough one to overcome.

    HIJACK //

  • Rollo Tomassi

    So noted.

    There has seemed to be (a not unexpected?) shift in his target demographic since his new book got published.

    I won’t call him D’Angelo yet, but I’m noticing a pattern.

  • Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

    hey rollo!! yes! dey leave out da GRAT BOOKS FOR MENZ when they define menz!!!

    THE GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN WILL RIDE AGAIN: THE INVERSION OF ALPHA & BETA: THE FALSE SIREN OF DR. HELEN SMITH’S MEN ON STRIKE & Michelle Malkin’s Hand-Wringing

    All men should begin immediately by reading the following books which the central bankers and their fellow churchians hate, fear, and detest:

    0. THE BIBLE
    1. Homer’s Iliad
    2. Homer’s Odyssey
    3. Exodus & Ecclesiastes & The Psalms
    4. Virgil’s Aeneid
    5. Socrates’ Apology
    6. The Book of Matthew & Jefferson’s Bible
    7. Plato’s Repulic
    8. Seneca’s Letters from a Stoic
    9. Aristotle’s Poetics
    10. Dante’s Inferno
    11. The Declaration of Independence
    12. The Constitution
    13. John Milton’s Paradise Lost
    14. Shakespeare’s Hamlet
    15. Newton’s Principia
    16. Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations and Theory of Moral Sentiments
    17. Henry David Thoreau’s Walden
    18. Mark Twain’s Huckleberry Finn (& all of his work)
    19. Shakespeare’s Hamlet
    20. Ludwig von Mises’ A Theory of Money and Credit
    21. F.A. Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom
    22. Herman Melville’s Moby Dick
    23. Einstein’s The Meaning of Relativity
    24. Joseph Campbell’s The Hero With a Thousand Faces and The Power of Myth
    25. Ron Paul’s Revolution & End the Fed
    26. THE BIBLE

    Please note that neither Dr. Helen Smith nor Michelle Malkin ever, ever, ever quote nor acknowledge THE GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN. Next time you see them, ask them why they never salute our EXALTED FATHERS and our NOBLE HERITAGE and the FOUNDATION OF NATURAL RIGHTS, THE FAMILY, FATHERHOOD, and NATURAL LAW.

    http://greatbooksformen.wordpress.com/2013/07/17/the-great-books-for-men-will-ride-again-the-inversion-of-alpha-beta-the-false-siren-of-dr-helen-smiths-men-on-strike-michelle-malkins-hand-wringing/

  • orion

    “I won’t call him D’Angelo yet, but I’m noticing a pattern. ”

    The first material I ever laid my hands on was from de Angelo.

    All he did was describe some basic princples and what a shittest was and I ran with it.

    See, all I needed was someone to tell me it was ok, though I dont know why exactly.

    So, why I do understand a little bit of Elam hating, for some people he has exactly the right message at exactly the right time.

  • orion

    Eben

    Goddamnit

  • Tam the Bam

    Davis tells Carr. “What I try to do is make work a little uncomfortable every day, for everybody.”
    Davis’s number one method for doing this is to disagree with anyone and everyone. Frequently. “

    What a guy, eh?
    Good way of getting a smack, where I work. Or ending up in the cement hopper. If you carried on like that you would be addressed as “Hey, Cunt!” up to that point, as well. Whatever your job title. Timewaster.

  • Lightning Round – 2013/07/24 | Free Northerner

    […] Beers, boobs, and defining masculinity. […]

  • Ellie

    Being female, I think we’re all confused as a society. It’s as if we try to manipulate each other. Why don’t we be interdependent? Why can’t we be a team? Win/win or no deal?

  • Miguel

    @Ellie c’est la vie. Easier said than done.

  • Miguel

    @Ellie con’td. And if you’ve been reading enough of Rollo… here is what I get from it and from others who are posting the same thing. Every time we function as a society, we as humans are predisposed to give women the better end of it for various reasons. I mostly believe that it’s because its in our instinct to care for the bearers of life so that life can be carried on. But it goes much deeper than that, and men are somehow trained to give their entire lives to women. Everything I do is for women. You have no idea. It just comes naturally… and its weird. So… I come from a philosophical perspective… maybe even a religious perspective. Two of my favorite movies ever are “2001: A Space Odyssey” and “Taxi Driver”. Those two movies exemplify how I think of life. Men are the lonely ones who is required of them to figure shit out on their own. Women are carried by society. Society is made up for them and for the children. Picture it this way…. if we’d be a thousand years in the past floating on a ship discovering new lands, the men would be the rowers facing the perils that is required to bring us to the new lands. The women and children would be safely tucked in a safe place in the ship because that is our future and they must not face the perils that would jeopardise our survival. It’s a dangerous thing, I think, if we start working as a team along with women. It creates all kinds of havoc that is already prevalent in our society today… a kind of havoc that only men will be required to figure out and get out of. Women will continue to be women tucked away in a safe place in order for our survival through some arbitrary way.

  • The Apologists |

    […] want’s got nothing to do with it. It’s easy to characterize this vetting in the context of Bro Culture, but the fact of the matter is that it exists in every masculine subdomain from Frat Brothers and […]

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 4,367 other followers

%d bloggers like this: