As expected the Alpha to Beta trait dichotomy was inferred from Last weeks post courtesy of commenter Ad Fortitudo:
Do you disagree with Athol Kay that the best option for a woman is a man with both alpha and beta traits?
That is to say, wouldn’t a man with great genes/physicality/confidence as well as financial stability and kindness be the “perfect man” for a woman?
Wouldn’t that satisfy both her short term and long term mating strategies?
I get the sense that it is in absence of men that have both traits that women seek out these different qualities in separate men under short and long term circumstances.
I covered this a long while ago in Schedules of Mating and as recently as Your Friend Menstruation. This want for the perfect amalgam of hot Alpha and parentally invested Beta is literally hard-coded into women’s brains and endocrine system. From the most rudimentary level, the conflict that hypergamy instills in women is due to this want of fusing together the arousing Alpha with the attractive Beta in the same man. Thus was women’s pluralistic sexual strategy evolved.
The problem that confounds hypergamy is that the arousing Alpha and the attractive Beta rarely exist in the same male, at the same time and at the most opportune time for women to appreciate and capitalize on it. By this I mean that as women proceed through their peak SMV years, they place higher priorities and higher mating value upon predominately Alpha traits. These are the ‘fuck me now’ party years, and Alpha seed far out-values Beta need. As I wrote in Schedules of Mating, on a macro level this translates into a proactive form of cuckoldry. Even if it doesn’t result in a pregnancy, the latent urgency in a woman’s peak is to ‘get the seed first, find the provider later’ (i.e. protracted cuckoldry).
The fantasy for women of course is to ‘tame the savage Alpha’ and convert him into a parentally invested partner by encouraging Beta traits in him as he matures, and hopefully prospers. Many a thwarted single mommy knows the unfortunate outcome of attempting to ‘fix’ their Bad Boy Alpha into the Good Dad Father, but this is the emphasis assuming a woman pauses long enough to invest in one particular Alpha during her peak years. The base schema is to maintain that hot Alpha arousal, while developing him into a more attractive Beta provider.
As a woman approaches the downturn of her SMV that hypergamic urgency shifts to favor Beta providership traits as the prospect of long term security alters the priorities of her hypergamy. Now the script changes to one favoring the nice, dependable, and necessarily resourceful man with all the attractive features she needs for a commitment to long term security. It’s not that she doesn’t still become aroused by the physicality and charisma of a predominately Alpha male (particularly in her proliferate menstrual phase), but she is more aware of the balance between her lessened ability to attract that man (post-Wall) and the need to pair-bond with a man who can provide for her and her offspring. Women will mitigate this arousal-attraction imbalance with their own forms of pornography or self-initialized rationalization about their ‘deeper maturity’, but in essence the doubt that hypergamy seeds in them has to be held in check either through self-repression or by dread of loss.
The fantasy for women in this instance is the hope that their predominately Beta partner will “Man Up”, Just Get It on his own and develop more arousing Alpha traits as he matures. The base schema here is to maintain the sweet Beta provider attraction, while developing him into a more arousing Alpha as her needs demand.
Beta with a Side of Alpha
The inimitable Geisha Kate then helps solidify this analysis of her ‘Perfect Man’:
Great point. That ^ is the true manicorn. That is what I mean when I say I’ll take a “greater beta with fries.”
Be careful what you pray for Kate, the women (and Manboobz) who kvetch about the ‘overly sensitive men’ they committed to probably wished for the same. In fact I’d argue that the majority of married men now looking to Athol Kay for insight believed they were Greater Betas with a side of Alpha.
Kate’s in a stage of life when the Beta providership male makes far better practical sense to pair off with. Just like Aunt Giggles, her definition of attraction and ‘a good relationship’ is biased by the personal conditions of her present SMP valuation. She understands this from her age, SMV and necessity perspective, but this undoubtedly wasn’t her perspective when she was in the prime of her SMV years.
This is the ‘build-a-better-beta‘ paradox:
The overarching point is to create a more acceptable man for a female defined goal, NOT to truly empower any man. There is no feminine opposite to this; there is no counter effort to make women more acceptable to men – in fact this is actively resisted and cast as a form of slavish subservience. This is the extent of the feminine reality; it’s so instaurating that men, with the aid of “concerned women”, will spend lifetimes seeking ways to better qualify themselves for feminine approval. That’s the better Beta they hope to create. One who will Man-Up and be the Alpha as situations and use would warrant, but Beta enough to be subservient to the feminine imperative. They seek a man to be proud of, one who’s association reflects a statement of their own quality, yet one they still have implicit control over.
Whether the reasonings are moral, entitlement or ‘honor bound’ in nature the end result is still feminine primacy. The sales pitch is one of manning up to benefit yourself, but the latent purpose is one of better qualifying for normalized feminine acceptance. What they cannot reconcile is that the same benefits that are inherent in becoming more Alpha (however you choose to define that) are the same traits that threaten his necessary position of subservience as a Beta. This is precisely why ‘real’ Game, and truly unplugging, cannot be sanitized. This social element wants to keep you plugged in; more Alpha, more confidence, more awareness, is a threat to fem-centrism. “It’s great that all this Game stuff has finally got you standing up for yourself, but remember who’s got the vagina.“
I have a lot of respect for Athol, and not so much for Aunt Giggles, but the problem I see with both of their approaches in balancing Alpha with Beta is that they begin from a fem-centric origin. Athol seems to have the better take of the two, but by and large the men seeking his advice are Beta men who’ve been red-pill enlightened to the fact that they need to up the Alpha – presuming they had an Alpha element to start.
Aunt Giggles simply wants a Beta, who’s an Alpha of a woman’s convenience. Aunt Sue had a grand mal
seizure orgasm when she’d thought Roissy was actually advocating that men genuinely become more Beta. She force fit it to comply with her build-a-better-beta narrative (CH suggests using Beta as an in-context Game tactic), but it only better illustrates her latent imperatives about a post-Wall, fem-centrically defined preference for Beta with a side of Alpha.
There is no side of Alpha. The conflict both Kate and Giggles don’t grasp is that Alpha demands dominance, and this doesn’t fit very well with the feminine imperative’s false religion of equalism. Athol understand this with his Captain and First Officer analogy; in any relationship one partner is the dominant personality, the other the submissive. Even homosexual couples recognize this order, but the women and men of the feminine Matrix resist this with the delusion of an equalist utopia amongst the genders.
So when I read about a desire for achieving some balance of Alpha to Beta traits in the ‘perfect man’ I realize that this is an extension of this feminine-primary equalist want for balance amongst the genders; which really equates to women wanting a perfected security. In their need for control (dominance) they want hypergamy definitively settled in the perfect man, for the perfect occasion, and at every stage of their SMV maturation. Men, mangina sympathizers or otherwise, are simply the means to that end. That end may be with the perfect husband, or via cuckolding or through fem-side pornography, or any other methodology women’s sexual pluralism will help her invent.
Up the Alpha
I’ve written this before, but it bears repeating: for men wanting to change their lives and relationships, working up from Beta to Alpha is a far tougher road to hoe that tempering Alpha dominance with a personalized touch of Beta. As bad as Hugo Schwyzer is in his abject feminization, have a read of a few of the female commenters in this article. How many of the simpering, socially conditioned, Betatized men these women seeth about would make for believable Alphas once they had a red pill epiphany? It is precisely because of this impressionistic, binary solipsism that women will never be happy with ‘fixing’ their Beta. This is why he has to Just Get It on his own.
It is a far better proposition to impress a woman with an organic Alpha dominance – Alpha can only be a man’s dominant personality origin. There is no Beta with a side of Alpha because that side of Alpha is NEVER believable when your overall perception is one of being Beta to begin with. This is why I stress Alpha traits above all else. It’s easy, and endearing to ‘reveal’ a flash of Beta sensitivity when a woman perceives you as predominantly Alpha. If your personality is predominantly Beta, any sporadic flashes of Alpha will seem like emotional tantrums at best, character flaws at worst.
Women may love the Beta, but they only respect the Alpha.
Brendan, I understand that people are different – often very different, and what’s more we can be very different throughout different stages in our lives. But when I hear the question “why bother”, I want to reply. It’s not a rhetorical question. I think if that question is going to be asked, it deserves an inspiring response. There are very good reasons to bother with learning how to be expert at dealing with women. It can greatly improve life satisfaction. It’s a hobby that builds upon itself. A kid might ask why bother with piano lessons. He doesn’t realize that… Read more »
The perfect man for a woman is a father figure. You need to make it clear that you’re the boss, and you don’t worry about her feelings until you hurt them. When you hurt them, then you can get sensitive and console her.
If you’re hopelessly beta and blue pill, marry someone 10 years younger so it’s easy for you to treat her like a child.
Wesley Dabney…that is bang on what you are saying here man. ‘When you finally let go of the past, something better comes along’ and oh boy have I had some weird messed up GF’s in the past who themsleves have brought emotional baggage into the relationship. BPD’s galore..some great in bed, some not, some (minus their issues) would be great LTR’s for sure. Yes I’ve made mistakes, life didn’t come with instructions’ and have picked the wrong ones for sure but on the flip side I have learnt a hell of alot (I am 43, no kids, not married, house,… Read more »
A lot that Mark said bears repeating, but I’m going to just take one of them: “They will never love you as you love them. Their love is opportunistic and conditional.” Men don’t want to believe this. They think women love like they do but most women do not. Once you realize that your wife’s love and commitment is conditional, you also realize that your marriage isn’t the rock that you thought it was. Does this mean you shouldn’t get married ever? Not necessarily, but even if you want kids, marriage is not necessary. A woman in your life can… Read more »
Well, when it comes to marriage you have a 50/50 shot at best and chances are also slim that you will the one that will file for divorce. If you do manage to weather the storm for 20 years or so your wife will hit menopause, have a midlife crisis and dump your ass, as close to 70% of women do. I was married for 24 years in a relatively conflict free marriage to a woman who up until six months before we split used to call me at work at least once a day just to make small talk.… Read more »
guys.. women’s central emotion is love.. not opportunism… if a woman sees you as a means to an end.. that isn’t love and you are obviously with the wrong person. a healthy woman will love you for who you are and in my case my g/f loves me despite who i am. never met one like her and i was bitter just like you guys until i realized she truly loves me for me. i feel for you guys but it isn’t as hopeless as it looks.
[…] Male – Up The Alpha, Terry ‘s […]
I like the conclusions that you have come to Siquaeris.
Given the facts, how do we make the best of them? You seem to be saying that with some internal adjustments, we can adapt and thrive and still create intimacy.
It’s just not going to be what we originally hoped for.
But that’s not so bad. We are white skinned men of northern lands, after all, and it’s in our blood to deal with the changing of seasons. A woman isn’t a retirement plan.
@Wesley I disagree that a woman’s central emotion is love. I don’t think it’s all that helpful to try and identify their central emotion either, because what men need to realize is that women simply react to their feelings. This is different from men… men react to their external environment with rational thought. Men don’t let their feelings make decisions and run their lives the way women do. I think this is why many men have such a hard time understanding women – they are very often not rational creatures. A woman may love her children unconditionally, but not her… Read more »
@siquaeris, men are emotional too. when i see guys here hating on women.. it isn’t their rational, logical side doing that. it’s the pain they’ve been caused talking. i have much sympathy for them. we can disagree all you want but that won’t make it any less true. a healthy woman’s central emotion is love. if you return that love to her, she will love you back and be faithful. no alpha can crack that connection. however, most men today have been so damaged by the sexual market place they are incapable of showing a woman the love they need… Read more »
it’s nice to finally see some israeli members on the red pill team. I’ve been in the manosphere for roughly 2 years now but have never encountered a single guy from israel who knows rollo, heartiste and such. is there an israeli manosphere or at least forums? (and not those cheap israeli PUA forums…)
Guys like Wesley Dabney have to learn the hard way. To each his own.
I love how both examples he gives involve men who treated their women like shit, further proving what everyone’s been saying here.
if you assume i haven’t learned the hard way.. you are a fool. i’ve been divorced more than once and took a long time off to learn what i was doing wrong. if you believe that women are driven only by their need for a high status male and their own selfishness, i feel sorry for you. you are just another example of a broken male blaming women for your problems. the problem is you.
I don’t believe women are “only” driven by any one thing. That’s a straw-man you’ve introduced, that I don’t see written here by Rollo or any of the responses. I also don’t blame women (or anyone) for my problems. This is another assumption you’ve fabricated to take issue with. You seem to have some sort of an ax to grind with the manosphere, so you’ve chosen this thread to interject a lot of nonsense you have bottled up inside. I hope you can work through your personal demons. Personally, I have very fulfilling relationships with the women in my life… Read more »
I’m not sure why I’m writing this post. I think I’m actually looking for advice, but even then I’m not sure. As I stated in a previous post on Rollo’s blog, I was pretty successful with women before taking the red pill. I’ve had may offers for no-strings-attached sex, and since taking the red pill, it seems like the attention I got in my youth was nothing compared to what was possible. If I only knew then what I know now. I’ve only been with 6 women. I’ve had a lot of sex, since a lot of the time the… Read more »
I thought you simply born alpha in Israel.
I didn’t know beta could even exist over there.
Israel, pound for pound hottest female soldiers on earth.
Dude, you’re 43. That’s only old if you’re female.
My opinion: You haven’t wasted your youth. You’ve had a steady sex life and two sons that you actually got to raise, which is more than what most 43 year old men can say. Bang a few chicks on the side, get it out of your system (don’t tell them your real name, or let them know where you live), and enjoy your new red pill marriage.
not gonna lie, haven’t looked into any israeli pua stuff at all. just reading rollo, heartiste, and a few other here and there, not to mention i have a few friends that i discuss this philosophy with. you’re more than welcome to join.
great point. this is a completely alpha dominated society here, which makes it all the more imperative to develop your alpha tendencies. whether with women, on the street, or in business, beta’s fail here quicker than any place i’ve ever been.
I like that. I never really broke down the whole “Alpha” definition that is always left as unknown in the end but, that is a nice “Food for thought”… A damn good one
i never said accepting women’s true nature leads to depression.. talk about strawmen. i said not accepting your role in the bad relationships you’ve had with women does. since you have a very poor misconception of what women’s true nature, i highly doubt you have great relationships with women. perhaps they tolerate you.
[…] Apparently, all married men are pussies, according to Mark in comments on Donlak’s post and Rollo’s […]
G, how you get over the anger is to fuck a lot of girls while maintaining enough of whatever intimacy you need to feel fulfilled. Hate fucking chicks won’t do it, and seeking out another round with another girl who you think is all that won’t do it. A happy middle ground where the masculine imperative in all of it’s paternal glory can find full expression will put a spring in your step. Just because women are not what we had hoped and expected, doesn’t mean that they aren’t in their own way useful and good. It’s not chocolate, it’s… Read more »
I know I’ve been pushing a rosy agenda here, so I should mention that I went through a hellish short marriage in my early twenties, along with a nasty divorce. And I’ve seen the dark side of women more times than I can remember.
[…] el matrimonio— a las que no les falta razón alguna. Os voy a adjuntar la traducción de una de ellas que se pudo leer en los comentarios del blog de Rollo Tomassi hace poco. No estoy de acuerdo con […]
[…] He dropped another one on Rational Male: […]
[…] rather build a soul-mate, consequences be damned. So women will attempt to Build a better Beta, or tame down an Alpha, while men will attempt to turn a whore into a housewife, or vice […]
Funny thing is the same women who want a greater beta will still, at the end of the day, look at him as a boring beta. Women understand the alpha/beta dichotomy. They may not call it that, but they know it when they see it. And if they don’t know which one you are, they’ll shit test you until they find out. Women naturally have to put you into a box (ironic huh, feminism?)
[…] Upping the Alpha doesn’t mean offing the empathy. Game doesn’t mean learning sociopathy – it means learning control of one’s psychology. Most Betas find themselves miserable because they’ve been raised to believe that self-expression and open communication of emotions are the keys to successful living with women. It’s interesting that for all the understanding about how women are wired for emotion and men are wired for reason that it should be the men of the last generations who are more emotionally expressive than any preceding generation. […]
[…] order of the day is bemoaning the lack of marriageable men possessing the elusive balance of Beta with a side of Alpha. Make no mistake, the sex is still the primary associative for Girls’ predominantly female […]
[…] Suddenly a girl agrees to go out with him and he has no plan for a date. What this telegraphs to her is she’s agreed to a date, agreed to potential intimacy, agreed to a hypergamic assessment, with a guy who hasn’t thought past the getting a date part. His lack of a plan revealed his Beta essence – he wasn’t expecting to succeed, she detects this on a limbic level, and the context, the frame, of the date becomes one of working back from a Beta presupposition. […]
>>Would you have women go hungry, homeless and unprotected
there’s an inifinite supply of them, so who cares?
>>just so that you begin to look like a good alternative?
Maybe ==you== posture yourself as the Best Provider. That is not my strategy.
>> It stands to reason that one of the three women I’m currently ‘dating’ are at the expense of someone else’s missed opportunity.
My missed opportunity to feed and gift them? Can you PROVE to this audience that they are ONLY dating you?
[…] Up the Alpha […]
I’ve been reading your book, and honestly, this has made so much sense of so many things I had trouble understanding. It’s strange… a while back I was in a relationship with a girl for about a year and a half. This girl was beyond blatantly hypergamistic(word?) and I was beyond alpha, but it came to me in a different sense. It came to me in the idea that I am that which deserves my most respect, and anything that shows me less respect than I do should be done away with – without blinking an eye. I lived that… Read more »
[…] is no Alpha with a side of Beta, there is only the man who’s genuine concern is first for himself, the man who prepares and […]
[…] The first question I think men in this situation need to confront is whether it’s worth the effort to attempt to change their wives’ impression of them. If you’re 35 and (should be) entering your SMV peak years, this open Hypergamy revelation is particularly tough to accept since it’s likely you’ve invested 7-8 years in a woman who’s just told you what you are to her (and confirming it’s not who you are that’s of primary importance to her). As I’ve stated many times before, going from a Beta character to an Alpha (or more Alpha) one is always an uphill… Read more »
[…] that she and many “Red Pill Women” before her all want a better Beta. They want a Beta with a side of Alpha – in essence a better slave; one that’s just ignorant enough of female nature and the […]
I read somewhere that the very traits that arouse a woman when young (the alpha/manliness dominance), are the traits that irritate her when getting older: around menopause and later.
What do you think?
Could it be that later in life, women biologically change so that to find dominant men less attractive ?