If you haven’t been to the Badger Hut, why not? As reluctant as I am to thread-jack Badger I am compeled to repost his YouTube find because it, and his post, were instrumental in opening my eyes to a fresh take on an old (see, previously hashed-out) social
dynamic convention. The manosphere has been awash in articles detailing the sexual marketplace and the impact women’s short-term vs. long-term sexual strategies have for them for as long I’ve been writing about gender issues (10+ years). These analyses range from the biological consequences to the insidious, life-damaging punishment a socialized feminine primacy (feminism) inflicts upon unassuming members of both sexes. The most recent manifestations of this have been the social ‘shaming’ efforts of the Man Up! 2.0 popularizations in mainstream media.
You can read Badger’s breakdown of the history of women lamenting their ignorance (willful or by design) of the true nature of the SMP and the inevitability of the impact with the Wall, which I cosign, however I recently had a somewhat inspired post about exactly the nature of the modern SMP about a week ago. So, yes, I’m guilty of cracking this topic more than once, but it took this video to really bring home the association of how feminism, equalism and the feminine imperative conspire to reinvent sexual market value for women.
Just last week I graphed out my own rudimentary overview of how the SMP lays out, as well as sexual market values relative to each sex. Although I began a bit tongue in cheek, in all earnestness I attempted to visually plot out what a persons’ life time-line might look like were he or she to have a ‘God’s Eye’ perspective of when their SMV will be at it’s apogee, when it builds and when it wanes. As with everything I put to keyboard, my effort was to get to the honest nuts & bolts of the SMP and how our live’s events coincide with that valuation. Here’s the breakdown from last week:
This was an effort in defining a contemporary, realistic view of how sexual market value fluctuates for each sex. I think it’s comparatively reflective, if a bit rough, however I approached this graph from a male perspective in that its intent was to educate Men of their SMV potential later in life, and to plan accordingly.
What I failed to account for is feminization’s influence on women’s (and by association men’s) gestalt understanding of their own SMV. Given the plentitude of manosphere articles devoted to women’s distorted and deluded interpretations of their sexual market value I figured this had been done to death, but it took Badger’s post and video to shake a new thought into my head.
Women like men
As if on cue, Team Red vents his frustration from yesterday’s comment thread:
“Why should money even matter anymore to these women in the long-term when it seems like the majority of them have put their careers first and put marriage/kids off until later on in life? It seems like the dating world is polluted with 30+ year old career women that have been riding the carousel 10-15 years and are now ready to “settle down” and pop out 2-3 kids by ripe old age of 40. What these women seem to have forgotten is the greater risks involved having children so late in life.”
I found this comment apropo since it sums up my epiphany: Women want to be men. This is the legacy that a since-decayed feminist social impetus has imparted to the generations of both men and women who’ve come after the Gloria Steinem’s got married themselves and blew away. Women need to be the men of tomorrow. I suppose I should’ve seen this messaging long before reading Badger’s blog, and in honesty I think the greater part of Matrix thinking revolves around role reversal, but this is more than reversal. Women want to be men.
If a man can wait until his maturation develops, his achievements are more actualized and his SMV peaks at 38-40, equalism says “why shouldn’t you Man-Girl?”
Whether it’s in terms of Dom vs. Sub in sexually fluid relationships, or in terms of respect or social entitlement, Women want to be men. This is what 60+ years of feminization has taught women is valuable, and taught men to accommodate for. In fact men are ‘lesser men’ for not offering women a ‘hand up’ to manhood. Feminization in this respect is the ultimate form of penis envy; acculturate consecutive generations of both sexes willing to masculinize women into prominence. This is the heart of the feminine imperative and feminine primacy.
Hypergamy and women’s innate psychologies naturally conflict with this socialization effort. Thus we have women expecting masculine equitability while simultaneously feeling entitled to traditionally feminine courtesies. In the interests of feminine primacy, if it works, use it.
So it should come as no shock that in a desire to be like men, a popularized parallel had to be socialized into women’s collective understanding of SMV expectations. In the most literal sense, if men could enjoy a more progressive and maturing SMV then, by the doctrines of equalism, a ‘new’ woman should also be able to mirror that masculine SMV.
By a combined effort of feminism, feminine primacy and its imperatives women have been socialized and acculturated to believe that their SMV profile encompasses and is synchronous with that of men. Since women are essentially men, Equalism (the religion of feminism) convinces women that their SMV schedule should at least be identical to that of men.
I could have simply recolored the MEN bell curve from my previous SMV graph to illustrate the feminized redefinition of SMV, but that would be inaccurate. It wouldn’t account for the obvious benefits women expect to enjoy in their true sexual peak years (22-24) in addition to the masculinized SMV feminization has convinced the modern woman of.
One thing I did find a need to account for was the Myth of Sexual peak. As Team Red laments, and in my post Myth of the Biological Clock, this feminine defined delusion is deceptively close to women’s post-Wall valuation. Since men’s SMV generally peaks around 38, women needed a social convention that would also make their sexual peak coincide with men’s. Thus we read the endless articles about sexual peak inflating older women’s sexual prowess above that of the 22 year old ‘girl-children’ men manifestly prefer for sexual partners. Equalism enforces the delusion that if men are at their most desirable at later stages of life, then so too must be wo-MEN.
Cracks in the Wall
For all its efforts to convince women of a feminized redefining of SMV, there are obvious cracks beginning to show in the social constructs designed to ensure a lasting feminine primacy. Badger’s video find is an excellent illustration of these cracks. Since the last wave of significant feminism was carried along by the Baby Boom generation, women of the consecutive generations are only now beginning to realize the gravity of the “have-it-all” lie.
The institution of gender primacy (masquerading as ‘equalism’) is largely, and grossly apparent, at odds with women’s true sexual market valuation and its progression. Try as it may the feminine imperative has never had an effective counter for the biological motivations that drive SMV – as women age, feminine primacy becomes a victim of its own hypergamy. Thus the imperative must continually redefine its mission, create new social conventions and rely on blaming the men it subjugates for its own inadequacies.
The reason this video is humorous is because all too many women in this demographic are realizing their true SMV isn’t what feminization has convinced them of too late – one crack in the Wall. Another other tact is to shame men for their unwillingness to participate in the SMP the feminine imperative defines for, and expect them to participate in. “Man Up you infantile boys!” – and another crack appears in the Wall.
That a writer like Kate Bolick can form a prosperous career and celebrity around her inability to come to terms with the conflict between her true SMV and the SMV model the feminine imperative has conditioned into her ego is an indictment of the scope to which the distorted, feminized SMV model has been ensaturated into our women and our culture.
The updated equalism (totalism) graph is the shit. Describes feminism perfectly. Just lower the men’s peak value down to 6 and we’re in Bolick’s world.
Just finished through reading this and the sexual peak myth you linked. I think a lot of what has feminism tied up in knots to create the equalism graph is that they perceive that graph as the one men have. Why? Because they’ve been sleeping around and fucking the best of the best – the Alpha males that have a crazy high SMV value starting at 18 when compared to the rest of the mostly-beta population. Then they turn around at 35 and see those beta males with a now crazy high value compared to their own. So, with women’s… Read more »
The ‘apex fallacy’ at work. Exactly.
Really good point. Women often have no idea there are two types of men, which is probably why they think “don’t corrupt him he’s NICE” isn’t a big deal, they can’t wrap their head around how many 20+ virgin men there are. Even 30+. They assume guys are getting laid from 18 on just like they are. This also probably plays into why they have this fantasy of a guy who’s a combo of the alpha asshole they loved fucking at 18 and the successful beta they want to provide for them at 30+. Also this is a fucking smart… Read more »
I was out with a large group of friends, and one of the overweight ones, who I might add looks 10 years or more older than she is, complained that it’s so much easier for men to get laid than for women.
Even the women in the group looked at her like she was an idiot.
Women are much more aware of their SMV peak in the East. They try to marry at or before it, and begin panic by 25. They are painfully aware that 28 is already well past peak and decline is evident, and will feel great social and internal pressure to hurry up and settle. By 30 she’ll be constantly anxious of her dire situation, and consciously battling her desire for a bad boy and trying to find it in herself to urgently settle. SE Asians have westerners as a backup plan for when they get older. There seems an endless supply… Read more »
Ahahaha – this is known as Christmas Cake and New Year’s Eve.
Unfortunately, as you note, it is definitely changing in the East as well.
I met a girl from a village who was in panic mode at 22. Apparently in her area the girls are already married up by then, and you’re an old maid if you’re not. The sexual marketplace for westerners will change dramatically between a place like Kuta, Bali, and a village anywhere. You’re status skyrockets, and her expectations will be lower.
But the internet is in the villages now, so she will certainly have internet suitors.
I heard the same.
Top notch observation, in all honesty this article blew me away with it’s dissection on how feminism tries to even out the reality of women’s SMW. This is one of those things that i’ve felt and struggled to articulate to my male friends in earnest.
In my opinion this is by far your best post this year.
I do still have about six more months though,..
*love your handle BTW, good comic book series back in the day.
Yeah, second it.
bullseye with an ICBM
Fellow up above struggling to explain to his male friends?
Lordy! I’ve been trying to explain it to my female (age peer) friends!
Rollo, great article, long time first time poster. This post strikes a cord with me due to the circumstances of yesterday, here is the background story. I’m 28 currently and have a chick friend who is my same age as well and was at her apex looks wise at 23-24 and was argueably a hard 8 who LJBF’ed me years ago so I just hang out on occassion with her. Currently with her excessive drinking and chain smoking and lack of excercise it could be realistic to make her a hard 6 now who still can generate male attention plentifully… Read more »
Roosh had a post the other day where he talked about how Apple computers, Chipotle, Facebook, Jersey Shore, etc. are “culture parasites”. I agree to an extent but these are merely symptoms of the disease. These days the internet is one of the big reasons why women can’t get an accurate grasp on their true SMV. Between facebook, internet dating and the fact that the goalpost is sex and not commitment we now have hoards of 30 and 40 something women running around who still think they “got it”. I see it all the time. 30lb overweight 40 year old… Read more »
Are you THAT desperate? It seems that way, but don’t these men feel the cognitive dissonance from their actions? They seem to be seeking validation in the same way that is natural for a woman. I can tell you that these women are feeling the cognitive dissonance. They know, on some level, that they are approaching/hit the wall, only they get to ignore it or push that feeling away because these men will validate them. At the end of the day though, a free dinner is a free dinner. Whoop dee doo. If it was worth it to them, we… Read more »
On some level most women DO realize that their true market value is low and declining by the time they hit 30, but with their ego’s being completely out of check and all it doesn’t take much for them to backslide into a comfortable cloud of illusion. The facebook likes and comments keep on a comin’, and when they start to get less and less attention at the bars there’s always internet dating. Hell, even 40 something OVERWEIGHT chicks still have little problem getting attention in the bars as long as their faces aren’t hideous. I watched this play out… Read more »
“I was the only one who was NOT trying to get into her pants but I doubt the other guys knew that. And it was painful to watch. Two grown TWENTYSOMETHING men standing around waiting to be the “chosen one”.” lol seen this SO many times and it’s painful every time. I have a super good looking buddy who I can always count on to chase just the worst girls ever. But when he looks at girls he looks at how easy they’d be to lay before he looks at how hot they are. I can’t even wrap my head… Read more »
There’s nothing wrong with banging an older woman. But to stand around watching her dance with other guys hoping the music will stop when she’s in front of your chair? Losers. If a hot younger chick did that to me I’d be out of there. And I’ve done it before. And of course who is she calling at the end of the night? But for some reason these guys just don’t get it. And all it does is let these women know that they have multiple backup plans, thus feeding the illusion of still having a high SMV. Actually, they… Read more »
“Hard to justify putting in the effort when you have to work harder and harder for something that gets less and less appealing.” Agreed. But that’s where you hit the 3 pronged fork in the road that every guy learning pickup eventually hits of: 1) learning to qualify girls extremely harsh and risk losing a lot more lay opportunities. 2) lowering your standards and lie that you don’t mind their actions to keep getting laid frequently 3) saying fuck it and moving abroad and/or paying for sex because you’re too lazy/weak-willed to put in the work required by option 1… Read more »
Good post. One interesting thing to speculate on is whether this phenomenon actually ends up benefiting the traditionally feminine women who do try to settle down. For example, asian women- they’re clearly becoming a much more desired category of women among upper class caucasians, in large part because they are traditionally feminine without being religious. (my opinion, although the fact they don’t seem to age could be part of it too) It would definitely be an adaptive mating strategy in today’s world. But I guess it relies on two large assumptions- 1st, that successful and/or alpha men actually want to… Read more »
I hate to go all Roissy here, but my fear is that the prevalent, feminized model of the SMP, combined with increasing obesity rates and fat acceptance (another feminized attempt at redefining SMV) social conventions will marginalize ‘traditionally’ feminine women to such a degree that those traditional behaviors and mental schemas will be practically nonexistent in 2-3 more generations.
I don’t know. There are a host of people (though statistically small) making attempts to return to their roots. Take a look at the homeschooling movement. It is said to be at 2 million kids being hoemschooled now. While I realize this is anecdotal, when all of these homeschoolers are in one place a huge percentage of them are SAHM with dominant fathers raising feminine girls (and very masculine boys). The mothers are taking time to teach the girls real skills and they are unapologetic about it. But these girls and these families are quiet and work to stay out… Read more »
I know you’re onto something here. Anecdotes aren’t evidence, I know, but my older brother and his wife (both highly educated scientists who own a working farm in WI AND both own guns AND homeschool their three kids) know several other married couples who have all quietly found the same low-key way of enduring the present sociological morass. As for my brother and his wife, they know that the traditional, midwestern conservative values (respect for elders, religious-based morality, etc.) by which they were raised served them very well, and they’re adamant that their kids will be raised the same way,… Read more »
It might be worth noting that, in the course of my life, no man has EVER pressured me to have sex. Countless women have. Not with them, obviously, but being conservative is actually a threat to them whether they know it conciously or not.
Sounds about right. One girl I dated who clearly wanted to be conservative reluctantly admitted to me that she had never had a one night stand. Her big fear? That I wouldn’t think she was cool – her friends had convinced her of that. They really, truly had her believing that I would be *less* interested in a committed relationship with her if I found out she was sexually inexperienced. How retarded is that? Yes, please give me a well-worn woman, that’s exactly what I’m looking for. I hate virgins, and I love meeting ex-boyfriends so I can shake their… Read more »
Well, some men do reject inexperiened women because they don’t want the responsibility, so its not totally off base.
Ya I hate virgins or girls with minimal experience myself. I’ve been with a few virgins but ugh they suck at sex and they get clingy. If you like plain vanilla sex I guess they could be okay. Now I literally tell virgins “I’m not the guy you want to do that with, trust me.” …which is actually a good tactic to lay them but I mean it when I say it lol What’s that joke? Something like “when a terrorist dies he gets rewarded with 99 virgins on the other side…that’s not a reward! Give me ONE girl who… Read more »
(of course this always gets the response of):
“Naw brah you can TEACH them man they don’t know you can tell them anything you want is normal!!”
No, fuck that. I’ve got shit to do, I don’t want to babysit in the bedroom. Besides most of the time we only have a couple nights together anyway lol
Those are all fair points, but I disagree with the end result; at some point, the “value” of being traditionally feminine, thin, and so on will be so high (in terms of finding a mate) that the strategy should logically swing back into play. I guess if culture is incredibly overwhelming in pushing this message (that being masculine is good and being fat is fine) it could push the edge, but there are still too many reminders for this to happen. Look at high fashion, or TV role models, or even politicians. For all the outcry over thin models, etc.… Read more »
I agree with you on looks of models to an extent. I think we’ll see more and more fatceptence in movies and film over modeling as feminists push it. Especially if there’s a fourth wave of feminism (I think there will be) and it picks it up (I think it will). That and I’ve heard some crazy and scary ideas be tossed about with gender roles and parenting. I do think that femininity can, and possibly will, get to a point where there is no where within American Society to find feminine women. There’s simply far too few parents teaching… Read more »
I happened to have eavedrop to a conversation of a few females acquaintances of mine (mid to late 20’s) that are already planning for 30 in case they end up finding themsleves single & alone when they get there. What is the plan you say?! get pregnant and having a kid without a father/husband present in the picture! One of them even has a gay male friend who agreed to live with her and would help raise his progeny after having vitro fertilization. Looks like single mommy epidemics and more messed up kids who grew up without a father are… Read more »
I’ve seen quite a few of these retards. Single motherhood by choice, because they’re too unrealistic to land a man. It will be amusing to watch how their living-standards go down.
These are NOT people that I have any intention of getting preggers – they aren’t sponging off my sweat just cause they want a kid.
I’ve also seen people advocate this as a good choice. They stood by it even after I literally went over, fact by fact, all the statistical proof that this is bad for a child’s happiness and success.
It’s society’s fault for stigmatizing single mothers and their children. It’s only prejudices making people feel bad that lead to all those consequences. Instead of shaming single mothers, we should shame the shamers. Then she called me a misogynist.
The same slut would be horrified if a single man hired a surrogate and had a child (that too with his own money, rather than the money of male taxpayers, which is what most women use).
Women having the right to vote does not work, because the bottom 80% of men will rapidly be stripped of rights in under a century after female suffrage.
Hey, thanks for the link and the kind words. Sex rank distortion is truly tragic in its impacts. I’m still amazed those two women were so perceptive about it.
Comedians are generally a perceptive bunch.
[…] interesting conversation has started at Rollo Tomassi’s The Rational Male and it got me thinking about women in the […]
“…Do I want children? My answer is: I don’t know. But somewhere along the way, I decided to not let my biology dictate my romantic life. If I find someone I really like being with, and if he and I decide we want a child together, and it’s too late for me to conceive naturally, I’ll consider whatever technological aid is currently available, or adopt (and if he’s not open to adoption, he’s not the kind of man I want to be with).” ~ Katie Bolick, All the Single Ladies. What lucky guy in this world is going to live… Read more »
The real comedy is that this, well-past-the-Wall, 40+ y.o. woman, (who’s career and prosperity depend upon her maintaining her status as an aging spinster complaining about men’s inability to meet her contrived standards) is still planning out her idealized future happiness like a teenage girl after graduating high school.
She’s still plugged into the feminine SMV model the Matrix sold her in 1990 – and even her same-age peers pity her protracted naiveté.
Good news for Katie and company. They can continue riding the Carousel.
Jason Molloy has a good write up of sex ratios, considering this time period might be a historical aberration (low male infant mortality and fewer men dying from work related deaths and conflict) it might be that women’s SMV is skewed more to the right than first perceived.
Take in defacto polygyny (whether through serial monogamy or plate spinning), men locked down to a single woman due to onerous divorce payments (while she is free to peruse relationships), single mothers off the marriage market and you have a massively skewed sex ratio in favour of unencumbered women.
[…] Tomassi – SMV in Girl-World, – Case Study – Creative […]
[…] the Matrix is there. It permeates society on so many levels. Little habits to deeply internalized beliefs, it is SO all-consuming. I know, for my readers this is like saying the sky is blue, but it is […]
One of us! One of us! We accept her.
Oates and Garfunkel are genius and so red pill. Check out the “Pregnant women are smug”
I’ve been internet dating for the last couple of years and something like 70-80% of the women I meet up with, lie about their age. At first I thought it was just the cliche’d ‘little white lie’ that most sitcom writers like to lazily throw in their scripts. But no, in the field, the age dishonesty is rampant, strident and carried out with intense defensiveness. Some of them get extremely indignant when you call them out on it. Some of them act apologetic but never correct the age on their online profile. All of them feel ‘entitled’ to lie about… Read more »
After reading this excellent article though I now see this age dishonesty is a CONSCIOUS strategy to artificially prolong women’s SMV.
Not only that, but it shows that, at least on some level, that women are fully aware that their true SMV falls quickly and at a much younger age than men. The funny thing is that even though they are consciously changing their age to find better men, they would still refuse to admit, even to themselves, why.
I liked the video. The statistics are self explanatory, the problem with them and reality is that women/girls ‘feel’ they deserve it because they have been conditioned by society to ‘deserve’ it no matter the age or circumstances.
When life hits them with a dose of reality and they have to ‘eat it’ the mental spinning goes into stratosphere.
[…] SMV in Girl-World […]
Hey Rollo, do you have an email?
post your own address in the About comment thread and I’ll reply to you
[…] a woman’s self-perceived SMV exceeds the degree to which she perceives is the SMV of the man she’s with, this is the point […]
[…] The SMV in Girl-World […]
[…] Sexual Market Value – http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/smv-in-girl-world/ […]
[…] include college, but it’s during this period that women explore the benefits afforded to them by their peak SMV and […]
Rollo, I don’t know how else to contact you so I’m going the comment route. I am working on what will hopefully be a self-published Red Pill book on dating and marriage and I was wondering if I could include the chart you made for this article and possibly also a few quotations. They will be fully referenced to your website and your website will also be included in the list of Red Pill Resources at the back of the book. Thanks.
Of course. Have at it.
Let me know when it’s published.
[…] this situation that she squandered her best with various other men and she incorrectly thought that this was her reality. I would never commit to a woman who I could not enjoy at least a good portion of their youth. […]
[…] a woman moves into the Transitory phase (29-31) this re-prioritization also coincides with the adjusted self-perception of her own SMV. As a woman […]
that’s all really fascinating and stuff but also have you considered that you’re a really dumb faggot
[…] SMV in Girl-World […]
[…] I’ve outline many times, women between the ages of 29 and 31 will enter the Epiphany Phase in which the rationalizations of their 20’s Sandbergian plan […]
Is this delusional : http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2015/09/older-women-can-still-be-sexy.html?m=1
[…] come to the point where the ages of 29-31 are no longer being considered a crisis point for women with regard to child bearing. With the […]
[…] The Rational Male: SMV in Girl-World […]
[…] на доста рана возраст, во периодот од 22-25 години (иако наивно сакаат да се убедуваат себеси и другите жени дека нивната сексуална […]
“I hate to go all Roissy here, but my fear is that the prevalent, feminized model of the SMP, combined with increasing obesity rates and fat acceptance (another feminized attempt at redefining SMV) social conventions will marginalize ‘traditionally’ feminine women to such a degree that those traditional behaviors and mental schemas will be practically nonexistent in 2-3 more generations.” Then high value men should opt out to countries where such rent-seeking feminist women don’t have power in the culture. Eastern Europe, Asia or South America would be such places. Whenever you have an ideology that thinks through the use of… Read more »
[…] their younger sisters becomes unignorable. Generally this phase comes at or around the ages of 29-31, however, depending on circumstance this may come sooner for some women (those whose attractiveness […]
[…] Women taught to be men. Feminized SMV chart. […]
Rollo, SMV should be relative to the age of the opposite sex, as you said, 18-25 girls are attracted by a young & handsome alpha even if he has no status/carrier/money, but if you follow the SMV she should be more attracted to a 38 man who has figured it all out.
Does peak SMV means every girl of the spectrum is more attracted to the man in his peak SMV (38) whatever her age is?
I feel like I missed something here.
While I definitely agree with the profile of your SMV curves, I believe the scales need to be adjusted. Peak SMV women will always outshine peak SMV males…maybe even by factors.
[…] good news to counteract that is that now your SMV is rising, your life is more together, you are looking better as you get older. Stay in the gym, eat right to […]
[…] get the otherwise uninterested ladies into watching the Olympics. Maybe Garfunkle and Oates could dedicate this song to Lolo at the opening […]
The mere statement by men that they reach their sexual peak at 50, while women reach theirs at 18, doesn’t make it a fact. A middle aged or older man is, realistically, past his prime even if he is still attracted to teenagers. Erectile dysfunction, higher rates of infertility, higher rates of birth defects are all evidence that he, too, has passed the peak childbearing years. As a woman, I never regretted putting my education first. I finished my Master’s Degree and was established in a well-paying career before I met and married my husband at the age of 32.… Read more »
Well, you will certainly be independent of the gene pool.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.