Late Term Virgins

Anyone seen the Virgin Diaries yet?
Originally Posted by jafyk on the SoSuave forum:
What’s your take on people waiting to get married to have sex?

I could simply take the easy way out of this and defer to my now infamous Wait for It? post, but I don’t think it would sufficiently address the phenomena of women abstaining from sex until marriage. I mention women here implicitly because there’s no man on planet earth with a mean average testosterone level who wants to wait for sexual intercourse. For guys who convince themselves of this sadistic delusion it’s generally an element of their particular form of Beta Game.

Many an AFC believes that having held onto his virginity for so long is a great selling point for himself. It follows the standard Beta Game protocol of attempting to instill value by proxy. In other words “I’m not like those other guys, I held onto my virginity this long and you are so special a girl that I’ll forego this conviction to bang YOU, you lucky special girl you.” The assumption is that she’ll be so flattered by such an offer she’ll reciprocate with all her unbridled lust. Of course the more likely scenario is she’ll use this confession as a convenient out of the situation by saying how she could never live up to his expectations – essentially a moralized version of the LJBF escape clause. She’s not the girl he’s looking for. By admitting this, he’s essentially saying “I was saving my virginity for the woman who’ll be my wife.” The covert message is just short of a marriage proposal; marriage being the pretext for sexual intimacy. Needless to say, this will often be overwhelming for the girl.

All that said, and as odd as it sounds, I can appreciate the conviction of saving oneself for marriage. As impractical as it’s become, the latent purposes for doing so do make practical sense, or at least they used to. Unfortunately the idea has been subjected to the modern insecurities and inconsistencies of the overly religious, smashing headlong into modern entitlements of contemporary feminine hypergamy. Without turning this into a theology thread, the idea of maintaining virginity has become a hinderance to full maturityin modern times, and this is then exacerbated by confused and inconsistent understanding of gender definitions from the past 50 or so years of feminization. Religion is no insulation against the rigors of the sexual marketplace and the church is no shelter from the Matrix, and if anything, feminization thrives there.

Simply put there are experiences and opportunities for personal growth that only embracing our sexuality can offer. One point I regularly make with respect to AFCs is that at some stage in their maturation they became retarded. I use “retarded” in the clinical, not the derogatory sense here; their social maturation becomes held up by their lack of access to experiences that would help them develop new cognitive models. Most of the time this is due to an inability to see past old conventions they learned in adolescence which halts them from passing to the next level so to speak. The problem with saving oneself for marriage becomes apparent in this. I’m not saying there is no merit in it, just that most people subscribing to it blindly do so without understanding the limitations inherent in it.

From my experience in the church, most men I know are either so entirely unprepared for the responsibilities of marriage they tend to hook up with single mothers, or they see marriage as an inconvenient obstacle to their getting to fuck and marry at 19 in order to be “legitimately having sex” with no caution or condition whatsoever to whom they marry. Add to this the predominance of weak-masculine, asexual fathers and dominant masculinized mothers insisting on the feminine as priority and the religious AFC cycle continues. I should also add that this arrangement of marriage-for-sex is total abdication to the feminine imperative. The new feminine primacy paradigm figured out the utility of using duplicitous traditionalism to further it’s influence long ago.

The Odysseus Effect

One last conflict that “late term virgins” have to resolve is that in order to get to a point of intimacy with a woman – in order to marry them and thus have sex – is that there is a necessary sexual desire for both people. The conflict is this; in order to get to that pure, acceptable sexuality there is a needed sexual desire that has to preexist. It’s exactly this lusty taboo (sin) about sex that is necessary to prompt a person to marriage (holy). The selling point is a mutual sexual interest – we want to fuck people who want to fuck us – and this ‘forbidden fruit’ dynamic is a primary element in Virgin Game. If you have a professed strong conviction against premarital sex, and your desire for a woman is more consuming than that conviction, you’re essentially willing to defy the gods to fuck her. What woman, especially the pollyanna religious variety, wouldn’t appreciate being elevated above the dictates of God? It’s the ultimate in pedistalizations.

30 comments

  1. Rollo, I’m curious what is your experience with the church? I understand if you choose not to disclose this information

  2. Fuck me, this is just….damn.

    Rollo, spot on about the retardation. You can know from a mile when a niggaz not gettin’ any. And the girl in the video looks like she’s DYING to be rammed.

  3. I caught that show a couple of weeks ago. I loved the one chick who says she’s a “reclaimed virgin”. She gave it up to 7+ guys (I think that’s what she admitted to) and then decided that the next guy is going to have to wait ’till he puts a ring on it. Imagine you go out with a chick like that a few times, spend a little money on her, and waste several hours of your time just to have her spring that on you as you are trying to get her panties off. Depending on how much time and money I wasted on her I don’t know how I would react to such an insult.

  4. I knew a Jehovas Witness girl in college, incredibly cute, and apparently in her sect you could screw once you were engaged. So she was engaged about 50 times LOL.

  5. There have been some posts recently such as, “Chasing Amy” and this “LTV” that are right on. I’m not completely against most religions, but religions (especially on the topic of sex), play a huge role in plugging men into the feminine-matrix to begin with. Unless someone has been a serious member of a church, they probably cannot fully comprehend the power/control over people’s lives that religion has. Not even mentioning the religions that force women to wear sheets in public, even most christian churches preach usually many times a month thus millions of women and men hear probably hundreds of times a year that sex is for marriage only. On the other hand, to be set free and unplugged, millions of men should hear the message on RationalMale. Although, many people caught up too seriously in religions probably would go crazy and attack the truth of this and other blogs. Against my free will I used to force myself to believe that we had to wait until marriage because that is what religion said we must do. I began to unplug with relief and happiness upon reading, http://www.libchrist .com/bible/fornication .html, http://www.libchrist .com/bible/premaritalsex .html, and some Game videos and Game blogs. If someone is a virgin, then it is better to never say that you are to anyone, and when you finally meet a legal girl do not ever say that you are because surprisingly it will creep out many girls with many who will upon finding out back out of doing it, and then after not saying that you are just have sex and move forward from there. It seems that just about anything creeps girls out. When I was caught up in religion for years I would have thought telling a girl (like the false idealization of Amy) that this would have increased her attraction, but it does not (and you won’t hear otherwise in churches or by religious preachers). It’s really something to see the religious-feminized-paradigm of false beliefs come crashing down (finding out vowed celebate preachers who told you it was for marriage only were molesting boys, friends who you were going to chastity confrences with tell you years later they lied, religious parents who did it when they were teenagers have now got religion and tell you and others that it is for marriage only or else it’s a sin even though they are hypocrites because they did the opposite of what they are now preaching, and other religious people attacking anyone who has pre-marital sex don’t know what they are really talking about and they do NOT care if you get laid and they are against what is in your best interest because they are telling YOU not to even if THEY did and now they are just attacking YOU) and by discovering that this feminized-paradigm/matrix is not the truth and if you can accept this truth then you set yourself free. This truth has benefitted me and a few others, but it seems that most overly-religious people plugged into the religion-feminized-matrix are as the saying goes, “You want the truth, You can’t handle the truth.”

  6. Such mind-fuckery can really mess with a young guys feeling of being sexually wanted. An older more experience man can just next the girl, or better yet escalate past her rejections, but a younger guy in the throes of romance is getting all sorts of frustrating mixed signals, which he might interpret as something being wrong with him.

    Guys coming into their own are in a fragile state of development, and girls like that are a big monkey wrench thrown into their works.

  7. I sometimes wonder if there is a developmental window regarding sexuality that can be passed.

    We know that if you don’t learn language by a certain age, you’ll forever be unable to learn it. Our brains have time windows of neuronal plasticity for certain structures.

    Do we have a sexual window of development?

    My girl waited until 21 to do anything sexual. Anything. I had thought she was an asexual little freak of a lost cause, but a year later she’s orgasmic and normally horny, and slowly and steadily improves in her sexuality.

    She was sexually retarded, but has slowly been learning and could now pass for average. Perhaps it’s like learning to read as an adult. You can do it, but you’ll never be as great as you could be if you started young.

  8. In my previous comment to this that would not show up yet because it went to moderation, I was saying how this “social maturation is held up” because this is what they are “taught” by the vary same people in religion who believe they are teaching them to be mature. Probably over 90% of the people reading this article cannot comprehend this religious indoctrination because they did not go through it themselves (as hard as it is to believe, Game is NOT preached in churches). In my comment in moderation I was also saying how millions of people around the world go to church and hear hundreds of times a year that this is the way (christians for example) MUST live or face eternal consequences, so not all do this LTV thing, but some like myself actually did (and not from being socially stupid, but from a religion rope around our necks that I finally got out of).

  9. The whole idea of male virginity is bogus. For a man, there is no difference between masturbation and sex except the presence of a woman. In the former he sticks his dick into his hands, in the latter he sticks it into a vagina. Of course the latter is the thing that is meant to be used by nature.

  10. You can’t tickle yourself.

    Sex and masturbation cause different effects to your nervous and hormonal systems. No surprise they feel so different, and men seek sex over masturbation.

  11. “Sex and masturbation cause different effects to your nervous and hormonal systems”

    More scientific details. Like what?

  12. I don’t have scientific studies to quote you. I have come to my conclusions based on personal experiences, general consensus, and piecing together various observations into a big picture. There may be scientific studies, but I haven’t heard of them yet.

    It’s generally thought that sexual success raises a man’s testosterone and shows up in body language as a sense of confidence and social ability. It’s known that after sex bonding includes an increase also in oxytocin. It has been a common understanding as long as I remember that men who want to appear as attractive as possible to women should avoid frequent masturbating.

    I therefore believe that sex, especially in the dating phase and with multiple partners, tends to increase a man’s testosterone. And masturbation tends to decrease it. I also believe women can smell and see the difference on a man – if he’s getting sex, or jerking off. And I believe the man can smell and see it on himself.

  13. On the other hand, I have scientific evidence.
    First, frequent masturbation or sex will lead to an increase in the level of prolactine.
    Second, it is not masturbation that counts, but the frequency of it. If a man masturbates one or two times a month (if he can hold) and still does not have sex, he will still have a high level of testosterone especially if he does body building 5 days a week. In this case, women won’t know if he’s having sex with other women or not.
    Third, a man who has frequent sex (i.e. two times, at least 5 days a week) is like a man who masturbates at a little higher frequency, because sex is more exhausting than masturbation.
    Fourth, the main difference is the lack of confidence and the bitterness which are both caused by the lack of a woman, which is the natural thing.

  14. I’m sure there are both effects that are biologically similar, and distinct. I agree that non-frequent masturbation won’t lower testosterone, and in fact I’d expect it to prevent a testosterone decline. Once week, or perhaps twice is what I’d expect to not have a negative effect.

    I think men who read about game often make a conceptual error about it, in that we reduce ALL attraction triggers down to one essence, and call it confidence.

    I’m sure that there are attraction triggers that are not a proxy for confidence and are not substituted by confidence. Testosterone even has a sexually attractive smell – a smell that is not replaceable by the smell of confidence, if there is such a thing.

    I’m not implying that you can’t have high T without regular sex. I’m saying that regular masturbating and regular sex will leave different hormonal and neuronal traces, and that the regular sex traces are more sexually appealing to women.

  15. Oh, and also it may be the case that sex without orgasm has a more beneficial effect than sex with it, and is superior to both no sex and masturbation in terms of leaving attractive traces in the mans actions, appearance, attitude and smell.

  16. “I’m saying that regular masturbating and regular sex will leave different hormonal and neuronal traces, and that the regular sex traces are more sexually appealing to women.”

    Yet, we need evidence for this.

  17. Ya, you want to reduce prolactin to raise testosterone, which is why some bodybuilders use the herbal supplement Vitex agnus-castus , which in larger doses reduces prolactin.

    A quick wikipedia read shows that prolactin helps to myelenate nerves, and may help neurogenesis. So maybe teenagers, who are experiencing brain development, are better off whacking away all day long?

    I don’t have the scientific studies, but I still intuit and piece together from experiences that sex with women overall raises testosterone, especially if you don’t always orgasm. I believe occasional masturbation helps to maintain testosterone from dropping off when there is no sex, and that frequent masturbation lowers it. But my position is not only about testosterone, or even only about testosterone, prolactin, and oxytocin. The gestalt of hormonal and neurological effects from sex with a partner are bound to have a different signature than masturbation. Even smelling a woman’s neck is going to have a hormonal effect.

    Again, I’m not claiming that sex is the only way to raise testosterone, just that the effects of sex with a girl are substantially and noticeably different than the effects of masturbating.

  18. Ive been in conservatve churches my whole life and sex is the number 1 subject next to blind obedience to church leaders preached on. A lot of abuses of power are exacted upon the sheep. Its a mind game.

  19. Maybe in general not having sex can lower confidence, but Ive been to jail a few times with no sex and came out just as confident as ever.

  20. I have at times not even thinking about it masturbated in order to feel less emotionally attatched to a girl I had sex with. Sex binds dna somehow.

  21. Since girls could b said to be disvirgined by the state of their virgina, that is, to say it does not necessary mean when they have their first sex but when the virginal natural closure is opened by an insertion of any form of external body then why is it only when men have their first sex that they are said to be disvirgined ? Secondly, is there any proof of male virginity medically?

  22. I am at the beginning of a potential LTR atm, but at only 19 not to stressed.
    Certainly have ONEitits, but at the same time not scared to walk away. I will let her know she is the only one I am considering for a LTR, but if she walks away will probably just get some experience. Even in the past month I have noticed getting more attraction since I have started living for myself and worked to present myself better

  23. Old post I know, xsplat said:

    “Do we have a sexual window of development?”

    I think so, there are so many factors that play into the new marketplace, but I think the primary one is young adolescents having to fend for themselves, both sexually and socially, this all happens whilst hormones rage and while unprecedented changes take place in society’s structure that is taking a while for our body and brains to catch onto.

    Losing virginity and gaining sexual and social experiences, no matter how dirty or badass they seem is now a virtue, the difference is you have to fend yourself and do this manually in the marketplace, your sexuality is a big part of you and unleashing it makes you more expressive, human, more you, more sensitive, more powerful, more real, vulnerable, more whatever.

    If it is denied, a whole expressive range of your being is denied,nyour sexuality is a core part of you.

    Unfortunately not everyone sees this and subscribe to a stunted version of maturity which is basically celibacy, in order to grow up and be yourself, you need to have sex, and you need to do the whole thing yourself: there is no other way.

    The imposition of timing, hormones, and having the man do it himself seems unfair, and it definitely is, unfortunately, you don’t have a choice. It is basically your duty, and you will be better, morally, than someone who abstains, moreover you will be more human. So this turns any abstinence on its head, it’s also not optional. Just go fuck someone.

    Cheers!

    Also yes I think there’s a windows, but better late than never. Better now!

    In short: don’t procrastinate, and yes you have to do it yourself.

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