Chumps I’ve Known

It’s amazing the sheer amount of guys I know or have known who I’d classify as being AFCs. I’d like to say that pretty much every guy I’ve known has been an AFC with a handful of notable exceptions. Some grew out of it with experience, others were partially Game-aware or simply naturals who backslid and devolved into AFCs, and still others have been “lifers”; men who still don’t get it into their old age.

I was having a discussion about the legion of AFCs that most women have to sift through with my assistant where I work. She’s an attractive (HB7.5-8) young woman of 26 who’s been dealing with an AFC long distance and non-exclusively for well over a year now. Her frustration comes from the multitudes of Betas she meets in her dating life – in fact after working with me for over 2 years she instantly identifies guys as AFCs. She’s familiar with the mindset now; the lack of decisiveness, the neediness, the wish-washy yet possessiveness, and all the other Qualities of the AFC. All of this got me to thinking about the AFCs I know or have known and their individual circumstances.

Dave L
Dave L. is perhaps the most pitiable of AFCs I’ve known. His story, as he tells it, began with his very overbearing and domineering mother. He came from a very strict Baptist family and so dealt with a very guilt-conscious mother for the better part of his life. Interestingly he transitioned from an authoritarian mother to an authoritarian wife. He’d only ever slept with one woman, Sue, whom he met in the military in his 20s. She was a sexually abused (by her uncle) single mother of 2 delinquent sons who saw in Dave L. what she never did in the other men in her life – a guy she COULD control. They’ve been married over 25 years now and had a daughter. In this time he has been little more than a slave to her. Their history is one of a constant brow-beating by her as he perpetually tries to find ways pacify her in the exact way he tried to pacify his mother’s insecurities. Every decision he’s ever made has been to appease her and has never been “good enough”.

When I met Dave L. his daughter had learned from her mother how to control him just as strictly. It was as if she had been passed his leash so she too could learn how to discipline him, and to keep him in check. When we first met I used to butt heads with both his daughter and his wife (and unwittingly so) because I would openly challenge their authority over him by questioning his autonomy as a man. They of course instantly jumped to his defense and maintained he was a “real man” and I would be too if only I would defer to women’s authority.

Ron
For a time Ron was one of my best friends and not a guy you’d really want to arouse to anger. He had my back in a lot of bad situation and I was his confidant and counselor for many years. But for as in control and assertive as he could be, Ron was an AFC. He had the Bad Boy posture that women loved, but he defeated himself with his soulmate-ONEitis mythology. He married Kris at 19. They met in the Navy, and he got her pregnant fairly early which prompted the marriage. Kris was beautiful and one of 3 women Ron had ever been with. He “did the right thing” and married her, and they stayed married, having 2 more children throughout their 20’s. Gradually, Kris left Ron to himself and the kids more and more as she felt she’d missed out on her 20’s and spent more time with her single girlfriends in the evenings. She began to resent Ron, who by now had let his physique go while she stayed in good shape. Ron didn’t see the signs, because he’d been progressively pushed into a position of having to qualify to his wife and internalized the thinking that it was “the right thing for a man to do.”

Ultimately at 29, Kris cheated on him. I was on the other end of the phone with him after he’d been searching all night through the town in which they lived for her car – with their children in the back of their mini-van. As melodramatic as all this sounds, he’d tracked her down to a motel and had been waiting in the parking lot since 4am for her to come out so he could kill her. I managed to talk him out of that, and he tried to “make it work” after the incident for another 4 years, but this was really last stop before toll. At present, she’s planning on marrying another lover she had and their family/children is in shambles.

While Ron wasn’t the cause of this, his AFC responses, progressive beta-ness, rationales and inaction only contributed to his present condition.

Dave B
Dave B is a textbook example of insanity – repeating the same mistake over and over. His first wife was his ONE, so was the second, so was the GF between wife 2 and 3 and so was the third. With wife #1 he had two daughters. After their divorce she gained custody of them and was awarded spousal and child support. Wife #2, another daughter, but only after they’d divorced once, made up, had the ubiquitous make-up sex and she got pregnant “by accident”, then they divorced for good. She too was awarded spousal support and child support for a daughter he never sees. After #2 Dave “met the ONE” again and moved her and her son and daughter from 2 different fathers into his home. After the teenage son was picked up for burglary of some neighborhood homes he got into a verbal argument with the GF. Dave B made the mistake of merely snatching the keys to the car, the car he’d given her, away from her hands. That was enough to have him restrained from entering the home he was paying for, driving the car he was paying for, and Dave B went to live with mom & dad for a spell until that was sorted out. Now Dave B is on wife #3; another single mother of 2 daughters. In the meantime wife #1 self- destructed and he was order by the court to assume custody of his first 2 daughters (which is what he wanted anyway) after they’d been abused by their stepfather and wife #1 turned up to be a meth addict. Turns out all that money he’d been paying for years went to feed her habit and the habit of the abusive step-father.

Shawn
Shawn is a guy I know who basically ONEitised on EVERY girl who EVER dated him. He’d been married for about 2.5 years to a fairly religious girl who told him she “wanted to be a pastor’s wife” only to have her eventually cheat on him with a guy who was the Bad Boy and ended up in Las Vegas. Shawn went on to get a master’s in education, and moved to a string of the “coulda been” girlfriends, who’d date him for about 2-3 weeks, figure out his Disneyesque views of love, LTRs and men & women in general. He was a very good songwriter until he found himself in one of these “coulda been” ONEitis spells. Then every song was about the girl he thought was his “gift from above” and he proceeded to smoother her in his clingy-ness and idealize her on a pedestal.

He went through about 3 or 4 of these while I knew him until he met his 2nd wife. Mary was a single mother of one son and technically his step-cousin (his step-fatehr’s, brother’s daughter). She’d “accidentally” gotten pregnant by a black guy on the college basketball team and according to her very strict (and notably racist) father had disgraced the family, but they being religious, she had the baby and began her life as a single mom. Shawn adopted the Cap’n-save-a-ho persona and started this whirl wind ONEitis crusade to “do the right thing” and not only marry her, but legally adopt her son. Mary of course was happy to have the help, but saw Shawn for what he is; desperate and a romantically idealistic AFC. Mary was actually a pretty good friend of Mrs. Tomassi for a time and she’d confide in her that she wished he had the ambition and drive that I had. The short version was that she wanted a Man she could respect – similar to her authoritative father – and while Shawn was welcome help, she just wasn’t hot for him. Now Shawn is legally bound to her and the child he never fathered and has little respect for him. After 8 years of marriage they still haven’t had the child(ren) that Shawn wants.

 

Recounting the stories of AFCs we’ve known is educational in that it illustrates the commonalities of conditions these guys (sometimes ourselves included) face and the mindset that accompanies them. It’s very easy to go all self-help-motivational on people and tell them what they ought to do and ought to believe about themselves, but stories like this make the conditions real for us. I’d encourage commenters to relate the stories of some of the AFCs they’ve known in the comment thread.

I wont argue the merits of bolstering your self-esteem and taking action to make a positive improvement in yourself toward becoming a capital ‘M’ Man. There are hundreds of blog threads in the community that address this, but recounting the wreckage of lives that AFCism (for lack of a better term) puts the reasons why a guy needs to “improve” in sharp perspective. It’s like seeing the emaciated starving children in 3rd world countries on Unicef commercials as a prompt to do something.

I didn’t start this post as a warning sign for AFCs, nor did I start it point out what not to do. It’s an illustration of the sheer scope of the problem and the very real impact it has not just on men’s lives, but their families, the women they paired off with, their children, their friends, etc. That might seem negative, but it’s reality. I could’ve just as well posted about PUAs I’ve known (which would’ve been a lot shorter), or glossed my own marriage in an effort to point AFCs in the right direction, but powder-puff enthusiasm tends to only come off as conceit. And in the end, the AFC still thinks his best course to a fulfilled LTR/marriage is doing exactly what he is already doing – only more so. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
Socialkenny
Guest

Lmao that photo made me laugh my black ass off!!

Yea man,we’ve all known AFC’s,since we’ve all been there.Most of my friends today,or guys I associate with aren’t Alpha males.The globe is absolutely filled with wussies and AFC’s.

I’m curious though,that HB who works with you,is she aware of PUA jargon?Meaning,does she actually use the terms AFC,Beta,Alpha with you,you are you just stating that she’s innately aware that men fall in those categories?

YOHAMI
Guest

Pain.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Pretty much, but only because I spelled the terminology out for her. It’s not like she picked it up from skimming manosphere blogs.

J
Guest
J

I am an AFC. I am a beta. I exhibit every one of the buffers you have written about. I have been through two relationships – one for three years where she controlled the frame and another for a bit over a month with “the one” who picked up on my AFCisms and LJBF’d me. I inadvertently responded to this in the correct manner. Everything you have written about has been in the back of my mind at one point or another but I have never acted on it. I didn’t think it was possible. None of my male role… Read more »

Nas
Guest
Nas

Rollo,

“That was enough to have him restrained from entering the home he was paying for, driving the car he was paying for, and Dave B went to live with mom & dad for a spell until that was sorted out.”

– This sense of injustice is what makes my fuck**ng blood boil. I mean he wasn’t even married to the bitch and was still kicked out of his house. Damn!

Nas
Guest
Nas

For all the older commentators on this site, how much disposable income would a fairly successful man have available if he forgoes marriage and children?

thebrownman
Guest
thebrownman

One of my very good friends is an AFC and he’s getting married to a controlling woman. The funny thing is I knew then both before they met each other and by some coincidence ended up together. We are good friends and get along but when I observe their behavior is pretty terrible. He’s got a lot of good traits, hobbies, a good job and he’s in his 30’s. She commands the household and does everything she says while she sits on the couch. He cooks, he cleans, and acts as a servant to her. He’s asked me before why… Read more »

Nas
Guest
Nas

Remember the matrix analogy Rollo used in an earlier article. Plugged in men are our enemy. These men are a greater danger to us than women are. Don’t feel sorry for them, try to help them etc. Maintain social niceties and just make sure they don’t rub off on you.

D-Man
Guest
D-Man

A turning point for me was realizing – deciding – that anger is usually preferable to despair.

“Self improvement” should be less about denying/repressing anger, and more about owning/harnessing it.

cynical optimist
Guest
cynical optimist

i dated a controlling woman recently, when you cant game her and covert communication wont suffice what’s one to do, i came close on a couple of occasion to giving her a slap, but i didnt. Rollo your opinion on something please? I know that girl was raised in a household where the mother ruled the roost, is this where the inculcated mental schema comes from? i suspect its partly this and a combination of somwthing else for a person to need to be in control at all times.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray

I’m sorry. I can’t resist. 😉

http://verydemotivational.memebase.com/slap-a-bitch/

jlw
Guest
jlw

What about omegas? Are AFCs in the same category as ugly, lazy, short, fat, balding, not-very-bright life-long virgins? Have you ever analysed omegas you have known to any degree? Yohami had an excellent and well-received essay on omegas recently – one of the first ever, by my lights. I’d be interested in seeing what an insightful blogger like you might have to say about this category of men no one has ever really discussed.

cynical optimist
Guest
cynical optimist

ha ha, it would of only brought short-term satisfaction and probably a court appearance for my trouble.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray

I agree. I just think that poster is absolutely hysterical and I was instantly reminded of it reading your post.

It is unfortunate that many women think they have power because the courts back them up. They have given up their natural power to the state and it cares nothing for them. I am sorry that men are currently receiving the utter brunt of the abuse.

Tom
Guest
Tom

I’m a former Omega male. I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 29 years old, to a woman who became my first girlfriend. I am 34 years old now. I have had a total of two serious relationships and 9 different sexual partners since then. I think Omegas are men that are totally captive to their AFC behaviors and tendencies and never managed to overcome their AFC mindset. If my own story is any indication, they come from homes where the mother is the dominant parental figure and the father is absent or distant. I still have a lot… Read more »

OffTheCuff
Guest
OffTheCuff

Right. Yeah-ah-ah.

I thought I was an AFC, but apparently I was a bit hard on myself. These guys are walking disasters.

November
Guest
November

The following example is nothing spectacular, but it was edifying for me to see how a random encounter perfectly epitomized beta “coping” mechanisms in a relationship. I recently ran into a friend I hadn’t seen since college. He’s an average guy in the best sense of the word – think Jimmy Stewart in a Frank Capra film. He finally gets to talking about this woman he’s been seeing for several months. By his own admission, it’s a one-way relationship: he is her 24/7 emotional lifeline, always on call to listen to her feelings and her problems, and so far he… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

They have given up their natural power to the state and it cares nothing for them. WRONG. Look how much the state cares! If you are a man intimidated by the laws and courts being skewed against the masculine advantage, do the rest of us a big favor and stay out of our way while we unfuck things. Stop with all the complaining. Look at what you’ve done — the women pity us (“I am sorry that men are currently receiving the utter brunt of the abuse.”) Chillax, MRA Mollies. No law or court can repeal human nature for very… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

Very well put. Anger is superior to despair.

martaj1618
Guest

Reblogged this on Blyad and commented:
Gold standard in beta/AFC definition

xsplat
Guest

I like the approach. I think I get the shame-the-beta approach, and have internalized somewhat the disgust at acting in non-manly ways. It does point a guy in the right direction to feel disgust and shame for doing it wrong. But your approach is, I think, more mature and honest, and accepts the inner beta in us all. Acceptance has to be more powerful than shame, in the bigger picture, and the way you are using it is no less motivational.

Survivorman
Guest
Survivorman

@Nas,

A *lot* !!!! I’m 55, never married, lived with a woman for 4yrs once..
I own 2 homes outright, and have all the toys I have time to play with. Make less that $100K/yr., and have all the $$$ I need. 100% debt-free. My time (when not at my fun job) is my own.

Never paid a single penny to a lawyer, either. Downside?

I haven’t gotten a lot of poon in my life – trying to fix that, while the “Johnson” still works..

Tertullian
Guest
Tertullian

No snarky comment deriding a commenter’s intellectual capacity? No cite to an obscure philosophical treatise to try and bolster your intellectual cred? No preaching…not even a little? No long-winded, flatulent essay?

Is this a post from the REAL “King A (Matthew King)?”

Nas
Guest
Nas

Survivorman,

– Do you have a blog? I think it is important for older never married or divorced men to share with us youngins that life isn’t all doom and gloom if you don’t follow the societal script of college then get a 9 to 5, buy a house, get married, have kids. Girls and Betas will say you will end up alone as if it is the worst insult they can throw at you but I know a lot of that fearmongering is simply projection.

Nas
Guest
Nas

“I own 2 homes outright, and have all the toys I have time to play with. ”

– LOL man don’t skimp on the good part. What kind of hobbies and toys do you get to enjoy? Contrast that with your married friends please.

Thanks

walawala
Guest
walawala

In Rollo’s words, the difference between AFC and a recovering AFC is that when an AFC gets a rejection and thinks “What did I do wrong?”

When a recovering AFC gets rejected he thinks: “What can I do differently next time?”

I’ve been on my own journey out of AFC. I’ve done quite well. But I do find cold approaches/approaches on the street intimidating.

At times when things don’t work out I do fall into the “What did I do wrong?” mode and quickly shake myself out of it into “How do I fix this?”

walawala
Guest
walawala

I think one other thing. There is a belief that game can turn everything around.

A major part of my transformation is understanding which situations with women require the courage/resolve to walk away instead of constantly trying to tinker and be clever to try to reverse whatever flake or rejection that happens to be.

Women are emotional, they can be totally into you and suddenly get some idea in their head and pull away. If you keep following or chasing….it’s AFC.

Pegasus
Guest
Pegasus

how do you tell other guys about this? I am not an alpha but the guys at work are owned by their wives. by the way they talk they have no say in anything.

puahate.com
Guest

Man you really need to take your head out of your ass. In all of these stories you have some seriously fucked up women but you never called them out on it. Instead you put down the men. You sound more like a feminist than most women do. Put the blame where it belongs, on the women not the men. If more people held women accountable then most of this bullshit wouldn’t be happening.

Wet Willy
Guest
Wet Willy

His audience is men dumbass. There’s plenty of ink on “bitches be crazy”. Beta bitch boys deserve their share too.

YOHAMI
Guest

There’s plenty of “bitches are crazy” here too. The guys who mold themselves to the bitches need awakening.

unbowed
Guest
unbowed

It’s difficult enough to get most men to change from afc–now imagine asking women to improve their behavior? Not going to happen, not in this day and age and society. You wouldn’t change either if you had both power and no responsibility. Call them out and they’ll just circle the wagons.
Only thing you can do is open your eyes and game the system one woman at a time.
(Off-topic: women may have power, but they’re not content.)

PuaHate
Guest
PuaHate

“AFC”……..you actually talk like that. What a loser you are.

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again- I simply cannot fathom the idea that a man would be “owned” by his wife. If you have to ask permission do do something you are not only a weak man, but you are also with the wrong woman.

Maybe I’m stronger than I give myself credit for or I am simply able to avoid women like that but I can’t even wrap my head around the idea of a chick trying to pull something like that on me. She would either be met with my Thor hammer or she’d be gone.

sharp
Guest
sharp

I’m thankful I’ve had a few natural alpha qualities before I knew about game, enough to not become a total vagina slave. They weren’t enough however and I did have bad experiences with women. Thankfully I never got married and/or experienced the worst of them all, divorce theft and children kidnapping. My brother-in-law is the first AFC that comes to mind. He is an indentured servant to my sister, a pack mule. He never, ever does anything for himself, like maybe buy himself some nice clothes, new electronics, or anything that he might be interested in. His entire existence is… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray

At two, I think most boys do favor their mother, but starting at about three/three and a half most boys will want to start to mimic their fathers in nearly anything they do. Dress, mannerism, activities, etc. That poor boy is going to have a very difficult time unless you have some success in waking up his father. You would be a good role model for him, but he will idolize his father. Changing his mind about things is that young boys best hope.

sharp
Guest
sharp

You’re right that young boys do generally have a normal attachment to their mom, especially in the early years, and maybe throughout their life. Nothing wrong with that, but in this particular situation it’s in danger of developing into female worship, and I get the sense that the father wants it that way, for his boy to become a white knight just like him because he believes that’s what a ‘real man’ is. As far as me waking up my brother-in-law, that will most likely never happen, and I won’t even attempt it. As you and most people are aware,… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray

I wish you and your family much luck, Sharp. I know exactly what you mean by family dynamics and it’s a very tough position that you are in but with the three of you looking out for him, he should be well taken care of. You are a good Uncle. 😉

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

Butthurt? I think there’s a salve for that.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray

WRONG. Look how much the state cares! I hope you are being sarcastic here. I cannot tell. However, pandering to women who do not understand very basic economic principles does not show the state cares. It shows that the state wants their vote. Bottom line. The fact that this website will draw any women in at all shows why women, as a whole, should not vote. No law or court can repeal human nature for very long. No, thank God, it cannot. The push back has begun and I only think it will gain momentum. As goes the economy so… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray

Today’s Day by Day is very relevant:

http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/

Survivorman
Guest
Survivorman

Nas, My passions in life are motorcycles and guitars. I have both dirtbikes and streetbikes, and more electric and acoustic guitars hanging on my walls than I care to admit ! I’m renting out one of my houses at the moment, and as I said, I’m absolutely, positively NOT wealthy in the conventional (monetary) sense.. It’s just amazing how little $$$ it takes to live an enjoyable and 100% fulfilling life without a woman in the house. Lonely? Far, FAR from it! I have a few good friends, and many acquaintances that I’ve run across in the pursuit of my… Read more »

Paul Murray
Guest

And if he does “win” her, the prize will be having to be emotional tampon for the rest of his life. Or for the 5 years of the marriage.
It was wrong of you to keep your mouth shut. You ought to have taken the risk.

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

sharp wrote: As far as me waking up my brother-in-law, that will most likely never happen, and I won’t even attempt it. As you and most people are aware, family dynamics can be sensitive and there are certain things you just can’t do or say, especially things like telling someone how to raise their kids. True enough. But you don’t tell him with words. You tell him with example. You build a reputation for a certain kind of wisdom, and when the time comes, they approach you. It requires patience and humility and consistency. The nephew will eventually develop an… Read more »

Höllenhund
Guest
Höllenhund

+1

As a female blogger said: “If you have a rational argument, take it to the men….Nothing will change until the money runs out. Until then, women won’t care.”

MNL
Guest
MNL

Thank you, Rollo. These case studies are painful to read. They’re painful by themselves but, more importantly, they’re painful because most guys can see parts of themselves (or parts they’ve been tempted to play) in each story. And the reflection isn’t a pretty one. In thinking about the commonalities in all AFCs, I’m struck by something you said in the story of DaveL: Their history is one of a constant brow-beating by her as he perpetually tries to find ways pacify her in the exact way he tried to pacify his mother’s insecurities. I don’t want to get too Freudian… Read more »

Doc
Guest
Doc

I have watched men I know repeat various of the above stories over and over throughout life. And they are always seem to envy the life I have – I try to explain they could have it to. Many are physically more attractive than I am – almost all younger, more athletic – but they lack the one thing I have in spades – confidence, and a willingness to walk away from any situation which isn’t beneficial to me. It doesn’t matter if I’ve known a woman for years – I’m always willing to cut my losses. And I don’t… Read more »

MNL
Guest
MNL

Doc, when you say… …but they lack the one thing I have in spades – confidence, and a willingness to walk away from any situation which isn’t beneficial to me. It doesn’t matter if I’ve known a woman for years – I’m always willing to cut my losses. That’s pretty powerful. It’s no doubt part of your success. But for most AFC’s that doesn’t seem the entire solution. Take the example of DaveB above. Dave has walked away (or his wife has matched him in walking away) from not one, not two, but THREE heavy relationships. The only thing a… Read more »

sharp
Guest
sharp

Good advice, thanks. The situation is even a little more screwed up than I let on. I think my sister is, in part, consciously undermining her son because he’s a boy. She wants to control a male for once in her life. She’s had some bad relationships in the past with ‘bad boys’ and has resentment for men. I can see this scenario playing out in countless young men’s life with overbearing mothers, or ‘smothers’ as I call them, as modern women have more control over their children’s lives than ever before (single mothers, domineering mothers with AFC husbands). And… Read more »

puahate.com
Guest

To unbowed, you say that women will never change in this day and age and society but if you read most blogs on the net by men who travel alot they will tell you that women abroad are nowhere near as crazy as the ones here. And yet there societies are just as modern as ours. As far as gaming the system one women at a time, that is too much of a risk these days. I know plenty of men that have been fired from jobs, falsely accused of inappropriate behavior, paid child support for children that weren’t their’s,… Read more »

pliw
Guest
pliw

you can’t tell other guys about this. the red pill needs a chaser.

pliw
Guest
pliw

to add: guys who are owned by their wife think that’s how it should be

HeligKo
Guest

I have spent most of my life in the church. The AFC is the model for all men there. It always felt wrong, but I tried to to tow the line in my marriage. It seemed to work for most men. They would even give me advice on what would make her happy. I tried a couple times, but the reaction was one of either entitlement or graciousness with future entitlement. Rarely was there true appreciation. The modern church emasculates men to be AFCs, and if you don’t get in line, then you get what you deserve. The last two… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

“His ego is tied up in the idea that he is in control of whether they succeed or not. Not through his leadership though, but through her happiness. Failure must then indicate that the other guy was not good enough. These men have confused self sacrifice for being a door mat.”

+1

Team_Red_Man
Guest
Team_Red_Man
Team_Red_Man
Guest
Team_Red_Man

Reminds me of this bit by the man:

http://youtu.be/cXkzYU8VHpA

Tyger
Guest

Lets call this the tinderboy case. somewhat close friend of mine was dating a Portuguese girl (we’re Brazilian) thanks to me. She is a colleague of mine as she also pursues a Ph.D in philosophy at the same university. Long story short, she flirted with him, made the obvious sexual innuendos, they fought like a rom-com couple all this long before they ever dated. One day I wanted to relax and go out and dance some forro and eat some northwestern food. Since my plate was travelling, I called this colleague in a friendly spirit, asking her if she was… Read more »

%d bloggers like this: