I have gone on in several different threads about “men” I’ve know who’ve become married AFCs and older guys involved in LTRs where they allow themselves to become the passive/submissive partner in the relationship. From experience I can relate the stories of guys who laugh when they tell us how fortunate they are to have a gal who ‘allows’ them to watch Hockey or Football or men who make their own rationalizations for ‘obeying’ their Women’s insecure natures. Just recently I was reviewing the Qualities that make an AFC when I came to realize that the condition we include that characterize what we term as AFC, change and evolve as we age.
The Beta mindset or AFCism (for lack of a better term) and all of its inherent frustrations are a disease, and like any disease, if left untreated, it will mutate into different forms as it progresses until it kills or debilitates the host. Most ‘advice’ threads online approach dating, love, personal relationships from a very short-sighted, dare I say, juevenile point of view. We’re fortunate in the manosphere community to have a broad spectrum of insight including the perspectives and related experiences of older gentlemen. This is a gift in that it helps to lend credence to the philosophies that seem counterintuitive to the newly unplugged and Game-aware. Most others see things in short term behavioral patterns and only very rarely from a truly mature life-long perspective.
Needless to say, making short term decisions with long term consequences is hardly a way to live. I know far too many 40-60 y.o. men and women who internalize and put into practice the advices of 20-30 y.o.s who have entirely too immature realtional/social skills to be giving advice. When I read a 22 y.o. girl going into explicit detail about dating advice for a 45 y.o. divorcee “getting back into the game” I can only cringe. So desperate for help is this person that they’ll disregard the maturity of the source.
This all brings me to the idea that mature AFCism, if left unchecked, will evolve into behaviors that will have lasting consequences not only for the AFC, but also for the people who’s livelihoods depend on him. This degree of AFCism filters down into many aspects of his own life and the lives of others either directly or indirectly. Bear with me while I illustrate this with some personal experiences.
One of the men I presently work with is a 66 y.o. AFC. He is a very successful, millionaire with many financial endeavours and a credit to his sense of business. That said, every success he has achieved was prompted by his need for feminine approval, women (and one in particular) have always been the PRIZE to him. He has built a small financial empire based on this AFCism that many other people are dependent upon. He constantly drops what he thinks are pithy comments about how “women are the power behind the throne” or how men will “never understand women”, all completely oblivious to his own personal status. I constantly see his business decisions colored by this very AFCism and I think about how people are dependent on this man for a paycheck.
When I lived in Nevada I had a 63 y.o. man I counseled who had spent the better part of his life trying to find the ‘key’ that would make his wife of almost 30 years be intimate with him. Both in their 60’s, she had gradually become indifferent to him and only held him as a concern when he was between jobs. When times were good he would buy “them” toys they couldn’t afford – boats, ATVs, vacations – and in thin times it was nothing but constant bickering. This situation didn’t develop because she was materialistic, but rather because he perceived this as a method to buy her affections and she became conditioned to it. At 63 the guy is bawling his eyes out since he’d reach the end of his rope. He’d run out of AFCideas that would appease her. It was when I suggested he “Man-Up” and start implimenting some positive-masculine behaviors and developing this mindset he said, “I could never do that, it’s just not me. She’d leave me for sure if I got tough.”
AFCism isn’t just for kids. The fallout and long term consequences carry over into middle and old age. One element to this is the notion that the last few generations of men have been brought up in a greater concentration by single mothers, absent fathers and negatively masculine/AFC fathers who themselves were brought up similarly. This is an easy mark, but observing and sorting out AFC behaviors of mature men and the complex dependencies they bear on others around them is tougher. I wish I could say that AFCism was an indication of failure and would be gradually weeded out of the mental schema gene-pool so to speak, but I can’t. There are many successful men who still cling to AFC mentalities and in some cases are more driven than positively masculine Men.
Beta by Design
I think in most men’s beginnings, adopting an AFC schema is viewed not so much as a path of least resistance as it is a path of least risk. Children are the sum of what both parents contribute to their development and an understanding of gender roles is crucial in this learning. A personality is the result of seeing examples set for them. If a father is an abusive alcoholic and a mother’s a meek, submissive victim, the model for masculinity and femininity is shaped by this. Likewise if a mother is an domineering bitch and a father a soft-spoken cuckold this also colors perspectives on gender. Taking this a step further, if one parent is absent this creates a gender role vacuum and the child either has to seek it from outside sources or from the existing parent, and this is where it gets real dicey.
When that parent is required to provide their interpretation of the opposite gender, all of their misinterpretations and misgiving become imprinted on that child. This works for both sexes. The pensive, brooding & resentful mother teaches her son “how to be a man” by insisting he pee sitting down (to leave the lid down) and to be passive/submissive. The other side is she expects him to be an overbearing parody of masculinity since this was the example set for her. Either situation is unhealthy.
The Path of Least Risk
Since we’re discussing the development of an AFC schema, this example of masculinity had to be set for a man. It had to have been reinforced often enough (by both men and women) that it becomes an ego-investment in his own personality. This investment gets to the point where anything counter to it becomes foreign. He has to defend it with rationalizations and usually ridicule of positive masculinity because anything opposite to his understanding is an attack on his personality. This is why it is soooo difficult to break a guy with a heavily invested sense of beta-self out of the Matrix.
The AFC mentality is comfortable because it involves the least chance of risk of rejection. One of the hardest obstacles a recovering AFC has to get over is approaching and initiating, because for more than half his life he’s avoided doing this for fear of rejection. This is what led to his AFC status and now he’s got to confront it. I should also add this is why serial monogamists chosse this option – there’s safety from random rejection in monogamy, regardless of how miserable their monogamy is. Miserable monogamy is perceived as preferable to risking random rejection, and over time a personality is welded to this subconscious understanding. “I’m just a shy guy”, “I’ve never been ‘lucky’ with the ladies”, and “I guess us men will never figure women out” are the catchphrases of this mentality.
As the AFC ages, gets married to a woman that’ll settle for him, or marries the single Mom who needs a provider, he lays on even more cement to this ego-investment. It’s not enough that he can’t figure out why he’s miserable, he needs affirmation from other guys that they’re just as lost as he is. And when the Man comes around who is even peripherally critical of his lot he falls back on his learned rationalizations and ridicule, while his wife’s eyes dialate, her cheeks get flushed and she gets wet listening to the Man give her husband some masculine advice.
Captures pretty much the way I used to handle relationships with women. Wish I had figured things out about ten years sooner.
Don’t forget Part 2, which is how Women-dom use AFC traits to their advantage. Nothing is more advantageous to a group than the notion that they’re “just mysterious and can’t be understood.” This is the throwaway excuse of the AFC as well as the Get Out of Jail Free card for the female. It’s amazing to me that people still buy into this; we can understand bodies that are billions of miles into space but we can’t understand them when they’re two feet in front of us? It is to laugh. Women (and men) in truth are among the most… Read more »
I remember watching the Tiger Woods saga unfold and coming to terms with how beta/AFC the guy really was—despite his talent, wealth, harem and high-status. His let his wife beat his ass with one of his own golf clubs and then proclaimed his natural male sexual urges to be an addiction and checked into rehab. He then permitted his wife to bully him into renegotiating their pre-nup on terms much more favorable to her on the pretext of working out their marriage…only for her to divorce him shortly thereafter and abscond with his children and a fair portion of his… Read more »
I disagree. I think Tiger did what he did for the sake of his career. It was all about salvaging his image. He’ll never be the good all american ‘ family man’ that the media made him out to be, but he’s not considered a pariah either. Nobody’s even talking about it now. He still has a great career and a harem of blonde HB10’s. His kids will eventually come back to him. In a few years, his earnings will more than make up for any losses with his ex. And best of all, if she says anything bad about… Read more »
“I think Tiger did what he did for the sake of his career. It was all about salvaging his image.” Tiger’s reaction was both weak and transparent. He should have just owned his S#it and say the marriage wasn’t working for some time, the love was long gone, keeping it together for the kids, etc. Instead he profusely apologized for being a hyper-successful male needing counseling for doing what every red blooded deprived married chump would do in the same boat. Weak sauce. His money and sponsorship are performance based, irrespective of his personal issues. Lord knows athletes have done… Read more »
Image is at least as important for sponsorship as performance. Corporations won’t be associated with anything that isn’t bland, inoffensive, and safe.
*Plays devils Advocate*
If you really think Tiger Woods is a Beta then you obviously didn’t read his “text game”, shit is flawless! This chick is down whenever and wherever…
Can you tell a women while at work too take “noodz” for you and she would do it? if not then maybe your not “alpha”.
Now Brett Favre on the other hand……(sorry Rollo I know that’s your boy but those vm’s where weak heh)
I don’t mean “beta” in the sense of attracting women. I mean it in the sense that his reaction to the crisis in his personal life demonstrated his willingness to devalue himself relative to his wife, to his personal detriment. Every action Tiger took demonstrated lower value. He permitted his wife to beat his ass with the very instrument he used to secure his wealth and status. Rather than using the threat of DV charges to quickly dispose of the woman according to the (apparently enforceable) pre-nup, he permitted her to beaugard him into renegotiating the document to be more… Read more »
Very nice post to read.
Do you have any specific posts that have to do with overcoming fear of rejection? Molding the personality to stop caring?
It seems avoiding rejection is a powerful force thats been stopping me from living my life.
Another outstanding post, Rollo.
As an older (recovering) AFC, I would like to point out that – at least in my case – “figuring out how women think” has resulted in me being *much* less attracted to them and their emotional drama, shit tests, hypergamy, etc.
Yes, knowledge = power. But truth is often not very pretty..
Agreed. As a fellow recovering AFC (late 30s), I’m experiencing the same thing. Lessened attraction and also somewhat diminished respect.
Great article, just in general. I always feel lucky I discovered game in my mid-20s. I feel bad for guys 45+ starting out because they CAN do it, but fuck their road is a lot of tougher. Not only do they have more external obstacles (divorces, kids to take care of, shitty wives, etc) but they have more internal ones as well (an extra 15+ years of cementing shitty beliefs, solidifying bad habits and mindsets, etc.). For guys that old, the Manosphere is a better starting point than PUA stuff because they have way more unwiring to baby-step thru before… Read more »
Ay, 45 years old here and a painfully-accurate assessment of the work to be put in.
Well, where do us 50 year olds start?
The article describes ‘mras’ and posters on The Spearhead etc perfectly.
Sadly, both pre and post-enlightenment.
I took the red pill about a year ago, and have been reading various sites, starting with Chateau Heartiste and now onto Rollo and others. Speaking as a guy who’s lived the AFCness, and is making every effort to get out of it and improve myself, this post hits home. However, I would question whether AFCness is a wholly social construct as a result of parenting/upbringing. Are all males born with the innate potential for alpha only to have it chipped away by parenting/upbrining, societal expectations, schooling? It’s an interesting topic. The old nature vs nurture debate. I would guess… Read more »
My wife and I considered homeschooling for a couple of minutes when we first ran into some bumps in the road with the school. But, it felt like a ‘flight’ response rather than a ‘fight’ response and that didn’t sit well with either of us.
What better way to fight than to bring it into your home, teach them the true way of the world and then to send them packing into it?
I was pretty shocked when I read about a study that found homeschooled boys do just as well as homeschooled girls. This means the gender gap in grades is entirely the product of what happens in schools and not a reflection of boys.
Boys simply learn differently. They will never take the time and resources necessary to teach them the most efficient way in public schools.
One of the most enlightening ideas–for me, at least—to come out of this blog is the concept of the ego investments that help keep men enthralled to the gynocentric imperative. That the imperative—the Matrix—exists can be readily deduced once one has taken the red pill…but the realization that male pride has been co-opted to serve the imperative (even as compensating benefits have been eradicated for men) is truly eye-opening and subversive. In the manosphere much is made of the difference between alphas & betas, sexual haves and have-nots. At the root of this is the core truth that alphas are… Read more »
Well put. This one statement essentially sums up why I lock horns with women (and far too many men) advocating for better ways to serve the feminine imperative. Alpha, beta, doesn’t matter so long as you subscribe to the feminine paradigm.
Advocates like Susan Walsh are so seamlessly oblivious to the system they promote there is literally no thought given to even the concept that anything else exists or could possibly be valid.
“We never free a mind once it’s reached a certain age. It’s dangerous, the mind has trouble letting go.”
Oh dear, dear Aunt Giggles…
Hi Rollo, I couldn’t find an email address anywhere to ask you this, but this kind of relates to the topic of AFCness. I’ve incidentally read through the whole ladder theory after reading this post (just looked for some new blogs from your list to add to my feed reader) and this happened: I feel kind of “mysoginist” now. No, really. It’s kind of scary, because all the points raised in the article kind of fall into place. Have you stated your opinion on the theory anywhere? I couldn’t find it and I would like to ask for your opinion… Read more »
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