Cognitivism vs. Behaviorism

“Never believe what a woman says, believe what she does.”

This phrase is almost a proverb in the manosphere. I wish I could say I coined it, but I think I remember it being used as early as 2003. Back then I was studying behavioral psychology and I remember it being significant then because it’s essentially the primary foundation of behaviorism: behavior is the only measurable, reliable evidence of psychological motivation. Most people, particularly those of a more conservative mindset, have a tendency to lump all psychology into the touchy-feely psychotherapist stereotype. What they don’t really grasp is that there are many more schools of thought in psychology than just the $75/hour couch-sitting cognitive therapists relying primarily on self-reported feelings.

I understand the dislike, but behavioral psychology is much more focused on what is empirically observable and drawing correlations about motivation from the manifested behavior of animals and people. For the behaviorist, the Medium is the Message. Cognitive psychologists are uncomfortable with the implications of a purely behavioral perspective, not just because it threatens their livelihoods, but it offends their sensibilities about humanism and placing root level, ‘hard-wired’ biological motivators above a blank-slate freewill ideology. It’s just this behavioral bent that rubs Cogs the wrong way about evo-psych as well; the behavioral foundations of evo-psych are uncomfortably close to biological determinism for their liking.

In the area of personality studies, nowhere is this dichotomy more apparent, and when you add in the complexities of gender differences and social psychology it becomes directly confrontational. Whether you’re aware of it or not, everyone you know subscribes to some combination of these two psychological camps – rational behaviorism and humanistic cognitivism. When it comes to the complexities of personality and social psych, it’s a bit too simplistic to characterize these ideologies in terms of nature vs. nurture. Only rarely do the two absolutes really exist in people’s personal psychologies, but in social psychology, the predominance of one psychological ideal will substantially set a precedent for the culture it’s recognized in.

Humanistic Cognitivism

As we might expect, women tend to opt for a more cognitive, emotive psychological perspective. As the sex with an innate predilection for communication (both verbal and nonverbal) it’s not surprising that a psychology founded on self-reporting and getting in touch with emotions would be appealing. An easy illustration of this psychology is found in women’s preference for associating anecdotal experiences with evidence of fact. Female solipsism aside, cognitivism complements women’s need for personal validation.

Cognitivism also fits well into women’s pluralistic sexual strategies in that it offers them much broader opportunities for sexual selection (i.e. hypergamy). A fem-centric society rooted in the importance of emotions and placing ephemeral personal choice as its highest motivator makes for an ideal environment in which to practice hypergamy. The unknowability of the feminine mystique, a woman’s prerogative to change her mind and the default status of victimhood, all find their beginnings in a “it’s-just-how-I-feel” cognitive psychology.

All of this isn’t to say that women are incapable of understanding a rational perspective, it’s just that this isn’t their perspective of origin. When forced to make a rational decision women can and do make choices based on empirical evidence, but it’s always tempered with the feeling that the decision is associated with. There is a necessary repression of this emotive base needed to come to a point of rationality.

Rational Behaviorism

Conversely, men tend to opt for a more rational, behavioral approach to their psychological motivations. I’m not covering any new ground in this respect, but it’s important to note that what men believe is their own predisposition for rational thinking is also a psychological perspective.

Uninfluenced by social forces, men will tend towards deductive reasoning in their psychology, but that’s not to say this isn’t tempered by an underlying emotionalism. As I’ve stated in many prior threads, it’s men who are the true romantics. We want to believe the fantasy in spite of our deductive natures telling us the opposite – and this is generally where the trouble begins for men.

Worlds Collide

Just as society is influenced by political, religious and economic beliefs, so too does our predominant social psychology color our world view. For the past 50 + years this has been a consistent push towards a feminine defined cognitive humanism. If you have any difficulty believing that men are the default rational behavioral sex, it’s because this psychology conflicts with what feminine cognitivism has been attempting to instill in society as a whole for going on five decades now; that a fem-centric cognitive social perspective should be the standard for society. The clarion call of cognitive humanistic psych has always been “get in touch with your feelings” , which by definition is easier for women than it should be for men. Women start at a point of normalcy where they presume to be more in touch, and men have the changing to do. Men’s default rational behavioral origin makes them flawed from the outset when cognitivism is the dominante social psychology.

Ignorance and Bliss

 One of the primary reasons men, and particularly the newly Game-aware red pill Men, see women’s actions as duplicitous and/or immoral is because they believe that women are on some level aware of their own hypocrisy. It frustrates men’s rational behavioristic psychology that in spite of being shown irrefutable evidence of women’s contrary behaviors they will still insist that they “just don’t know what comes over them.” It’s a uniquely female cognitive dissonance that women have the ability to separate their instinctive behaviors from their latent motivators. That’s the $10 way of saying most women are blissfully unaware of, or unacknowledging of, the source of their behaviors.

Consequently a psychological coping mechanism was needed to resolve women’s incongruent behaviors with their uncomfortable motivators. Enter the mental Hamster of women’s rationalization engine. Because of the psychological priority cognitivism has in women, rationalizing needs to be on autopilot. So when women relate that they don’t know why they preach one thing, but do the opposite, I’m inclined to believe them. Hypergamy is a raw, animalistic, unethical element of the feminine psyche, so it comes as no surprise that women’s psychologies would push this discomfort into an unconscious mental subroutine for them.

“I don’t know why I felt compelled to fuck the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun, it’s just not like me.”

“I’m appalled by rape and BDSM, but I can’t help but get off on reading 50 Shades of Grey.”

Men hear statements like these and our rational behavioral psychology screams “BULLSHIT! Everything has a reason, you throw an object into the air and gravity brings it back down!” However, women (for the most part) literally don’t know why they don’t know their instincts make them hypocrites. They retreat to the rationalization Hamster, but even this isn’t sufficient in the face of very stark realities. So an entire social psychology, one favoring women’s humanistic cognitivism, was needed to maintain that cognitive dissonance. Thus women caught in the act of infidelity (acting contrary to professed behavior) are still protect and insulated from their own ignorance of motivation.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

103 comments on “Cognitivism vs. Behaviorism

  1. Never believe what anyone says, when what they do clearly indicates the opposite. By their deeds you shall know them.

  2. You are using the concepts cognitivism and behaviorism creatively. They are usually used differently.

    Evolutionary psychology sees psychological mechanisms as information processing devices. It is in that sense much closer to cognitive science than behaviorism.

    For decades, researchers in behaviorism were working with the assumption of a blank slate. They assumed that reinforcement and punishment could explain all behavior. Also, you can study verbal behavior (speech) empirically.

    Anyway, … I agree with the main message. Actions speak louder than words.

    1. Indeed, well put.

      I too had trouble recognizing the terms used by our good host here. They are not used in normal, conventional ways that are used in the scientific literature.

      Confusion is a possibility here, but I doubt it matters for the layman.

  3. I think that women really mean it when they say “I don’t know why I get like that” when they lose it, say horrible shit that causes self-sabotage in their life, or act on whatever emotion or feeling or craving of the moment with total disregard for everything but that moment or need…

    What it says, clearly and unequivocably, is that they are not in control of themselves. They do NOT possess self-mastery. Whether they consciously admit that or not, they KNOW IT.

    Therefore, they know that their MAN better have self-mastery, and only a man who does is going to be of any help, and is going to be sustainable. That is a reason for the shit-tests. If he is going to flail about like an emotional bitch, then he is going to be a hindrance to her, even though she might entertain that for a while, just for the sake of drama and to perpetuate her victimhoom fantasy.

    If a man has self-mastery and understanding, he can help curb this feral tendency nicely, in a way that allows the woman to display great excellence and not sabotage any more… and weather the occasional stormm of emotion that inevitably comes.

    No matter how much feminism or humanism a woman trumpets, these truths remain, and her instincts remain, both to be a feral barbarian (that we all are by default) and her instinct to respond well to guidance and leadership and even correction.

    Women love to be called on their bullshit, even when they hate it. When we help them weather the storms and shut down their own bullshit, it makes the rest of our time with them downright wonderful. It is worth doing. You just have to know what the hell you are dealing with so you don’t get wrecked or tricked by shit-tests, gaslighting, or straw-men.

    1. Nothing can tame the hamster like a strong, reliable man. I often wonder if that is why feminist hate men so much.

      1. “tame”? sounds dangerous. why should a man risk taming a woman when the law is ready to pounce on him..

        n she calls the cops on her alpha because he raised his voice and she was ‘scared’

        then later regrets it

        then calls the cops again

        then later regrets it.

        you see the insanity here

    2. Wow. Very well said.

      Be the rock that they cling to in order to weather their emotional storm.

      I enjoy reading your comments, Samuel.

    3. Thank you Rollo and Samuel, excellent way of putting it.

      Been struggling with this for a while, trying to understand what’s behind the behaviors, words, and choices of several women I’ve met in my life.

      If they were coming from a rational perspective, like any man would imagine when he tries to “put himself in their shoes”, then they deliberately and calculatingly CHOOSE to do and say all these totally uncalled-for, vicious, mean-hearted, hypocritical, and selfish things. I’ve seen some seriously shitty stuff, both as a spectator and participant.

      Which really leads one to think that deep down, they’re evil.

      This grates hard against the bullshit matrix conditioning drummed into us all our lives, that women are presumed to be kinder and morally superior. Strong dissonance: programming vs. experience, with experience amassing daily and programming eroding like rocks on a shore.

      Much more workable to see them as human beings who have simply not progressed very far in their pursuit of self-control and mastery. Usually because they haven’t had to.

      There can be any number of reasons why this might be, but overarchingly, I think men and women walk different paths when it comes to self-development in our culture.

      Nobody gives much of a fuck about young males until they prove themselves. Mandatory early enrollment in the school of hard knocks. The only way to succeed is to grow up, and this includes growing up emotionally: gaining self control and owning your words and deeds, good or bad. Interpersonal skills are developed on that foundation.

      A young, beautiful girl gets attention and coddling from the whole world. People love her, hate her, and want to possess her, all for something she as a person generally didn’t choose or earn. She becomes ambivalent about attention. Loves it, hates it at the wrong time, hates a vacuum even more. This is a dissonance in itself that can easily lead to stormy weather in her psyche. She’s likely to develop strong interpersonal manipulative skills first.

      My thinking lately, despite all the crap our society feeds us, is that emotional maturity and self-control are capacities where many women lag in reaching their potential. Especially if they’re beautiful.

      Because let’s be honest, it’s painful work and people generally won’t do it unless life forces them to.

      Loss of beauty and motherhood are two major catalysts that spring to mind.

      Think about it: a woman hitting the wall in her 30s might be going through the same kind of internal developmental pain, and be at the same stage, as a guy a decade or more younger.

      You may say she’s more “mature” in the sense that she’s older, or she has a stronger interpersonal social presence because she’s developed those skills… but in the arena of learning to come to grips with disappointment, rejection, and life handing you shit, she’s just getting started.

  4. P.S. The “blank slate” theory is such an obvious lie I don’t know how it survives.

    They say we are nothing but mammals… but then suggest that we have no instinct whatsoever (even though all animals do) and that all behaviors are learned.

    How utterly absurd.

  5. An engaged chick I’m tapping tells me her fiance “is probably cheating on me anyway, he always stays late at the office and stuff.”

    Guaranteed the guy isn’t cheating. But it keeps her from having to admit to herself that she’s being a horrible person. She wears her engagement ring while we fuck and makes sure it’s noticable in the pics/vids she sends me.

    The rationalization hamster is pretty amazing. If you met her you’d think she was the sweetest nicest girl in the world, and if you confronted her about her behavior she would come up with a dozen different rationalizations (some that don’t even make logical sense) to avoid admitting she’s doing something shitty or contradicting her values.

    A lot of guys who don’t get girls will hear me explain something like this and be like “oh well you just have a crazy chick, that one’s just low quality, not like Janice at work, she’d never do something like that” but it’s like no, they all do stuff like that all the time. Whether it’s as extreme as this chick or more common like “that guy I fucked on vacation doesn’t count because I’ll never see him again” or as simple as “I’m an independant woman! …but guys should have to make the first move and take me out to dinner!”

    When you first start seeing it, you get mad about it. But over time you just come to accept that that’s the way a woman’s hamster works. She can’t even really control it. And eventually you hit a point where you just accept it and can love women even with all their flaws and hamsters.

    …you just make damn sure you get a pre-nup lol

    1. She wears her engagement ring while we fuck and makes sure it’s noticable in the pics/vids she sends me.

      Tits or GTFO.


    2. I’m sure you’ve heard this before but I have no respect for a man who knowingly does another man’s woman.

      There are millions of single women out there, so to pick one that is attached seems very beta and desperate.

      You are also rewarding her whorish behavior, allowing her to enjoy the best of both worlds while never having to face the consequences of her failure to choose. Playing enabler to the worst of the female traits.

      You are playing for team woman, siding with a whore to destroy a man’s life…playing directly against team man. And the MANosphere is supposed to be about Team Man.

      Sure the guy in question is probably an idiot and a beta and every other rationalization YOU can throw out….you do understand that don’t you…that while you accuse this woman of rationalizing her shitty behavior you are doing the exact same thing. Shitty, dude.

      1. You know I wouldn’t mind if another man was tapping my woman. I would mind him not telling me about it so I could kick the whore to the curb. If my best friend fucked my girl and later told me “Hey man you got a whore on your hand” I wouldn’t even be mad at him I am sure.

      2. I used to think the same way but my notorious alpha friend put it this way, “If she doesn’t get it from you, she’ll get it somewhere else.”
        He then proceeded to show me a text from a woman he just banged. She was at a dinner with her in-laws with her partner and she laughingly texted my friend how his man juice was dribbling down her panties while she was conversing at the dinner table…..

        1. ya basically.

          My rationalization is that if it wasn’t me it’d be some other guy. She’s hot and oozes sex appeal, guys are after her anywhere she goes.

          Except those guys will try to “win” her away from her fiancé and fall in love with her and fuck her relationship up. I will not. We’re just sex and we both know it and that’s all she’s looking for. She knows I won’t come knocking on her door or txt her all weekend long or fall in love and demand she leave her man etc and she knows that I will vanish if she starts to fall in love with me and I’ve flat out told her a few times that if she ever left her man for me she’d never hear from me again and would be alone and lonely. On top of it because of my lifestyle I make sure to use condoms and get tested regularly so she’s much less likely to bring home a pregnancy or STD with me than a random guy who’s less responsible.

          She rationalizes not leaving him as that she can find sex anywhere, sure, but she’ll never find another man who loves her as much as he does so she fully wants to marry and start a family with him.

          Reality is, they both just got stuck in a situation where they developed a loving relationship and legit care about eachother, but her sex drive and his sex drive don’t match up. He doesn’t put out very often and when he does he doesn’t bother trying to get her off and he’s not kinky at all. It’s 10 min of him getting a BJ and quickly fucking her then going back downstairs to play videogames. He has no idea what kind of horny adventurous sex-pot he has on his hands.

          Personally I think they should discuss their sex life and communicate the fuck out of what both sides want and if they can make it work, awesome. If they’re legit incompatible then they should either break it off or discuss having an open marriage where she doesn’t have to sneak around and he can trust that if she has a guy in the side she’ll play safe with him and not get preggers or bring back STDs. But to pull that off he’d have to find a way to not be super jealous and she’d have to be up-front enough to admit that their sex life doesn’t satisfy her.

          End of the day it’s a sad situation to me all around. But I’m not a marriage counsellor and it’s not my place to fix their problems. People only try to fix problems when they’re both ready, you can’t force it on them. So in the meantime, while she’s living this particular “sleep around behind his back” lifestyle, I’m a pretty good safe choice for their relationship compared to most guys she could be doing it with.

          There’s no “booya I’m totally owning this loser beta by banging his fiancé haw haw I’m so cool” shit in it on my end, which is what most people think is the rationale behind it. She has a need that isn’t being filled but the other 99% of her needs are being filled, we have chemistry, so I’m just filling that one need. I legit hope their marriage works out and that she settles down from this phase of her life as she gets older and they have a nice life together.

          Personally I don’t think people should promise other people monogamy if they aren’t capable of it, so I think she’s in the wrong. But I also know that most people aren’t self-aware enough to realize they can’t promise monogamy and society pressures them into monogamous situations enough that it’s no surprise stuff like this is common.

          I could bitch her out and call her a whore and tell her to be committed to her man but what would that do? Would it change her behavior? Would her sex life suddenly become satisfying? Would she break it off with him after having a moral breakthrough? No. She’ll just start lying to guys saying that she isn’t engaged because she’ll have learned being honest equals too much drama.

          I could tell him that she’s cheating on him but what would that do? He’s a beta with no other options who’s planned his whole future with her out. He’ll be mad, then forgive her, then they’ll stay together except he’ll be paranoid 24/7 whenever she isn’t at home and the lack of trust will eventually fuck their relationship up anyway.

          You can judge the situation however you like, but understand that it’s rarely as cut and dry as “she’s a ho and you’re an asshole”

      3. You obviously have yet to swallow the red pill.

        This is how it works. Sometimes you are the cuckold, sometimes you are the other man. The mating game is adversarial. You are competing with women and men. Every man for himself.

        I banged a married chick awhile back and right as we hit the bedroom she asked me, “You do know that I am married, right?” to which I replied “Yea” and that was that. Hit it raw and could have dropped my load in her had I so desired. Was that bad of me? Depends on who you ask, but if it wasn’t me it would have been someone else. This was confirmed by a mutual friend. This chick was on vacation and looking to fuck and I was in the right place at the right time.

        Taking the moral high ground isn’t going to do anything to stop women from cheating cause there will always be someone out there who could care less. You can either take advantage of it or someone else will. If it is more fulfilling to you to feel morally superior than to get your dick wet, by all means. Just don’t get upset when someone else fucks your girl cause that’s the way it works.

        1. Well I could either beat you to a bloody pulp and steal your wallet, or walk away and leave you be. But if I don’t, some other scummy piece of shit will, so I may as well beat you and take your wallet bro. Not my fault.

          You don’t lose your integrity when you take the red pill, unless you were a little weasel to begin with. You simply learn how to not be taken advantage of by those with no integrity – how to not be the fiance in this story.

          The argument that someone else will if you don’t is pretty much the flimsiest, most absurd argument for doing wrong that I’ve ever heard.

          Screwing a married woman once on vacation? Not admirable, but there’s a lot worse you could do. Maintaining an ongoing relationship screwing some other man’s fiance? Scummy as fuck.

          1. It’s more like the shared responsibility of receiving stolen goods. But in a society where women reject all “objectification” they can’t be stolen. You’re invoking a moral system that doesn’t exist anymore. Which isn’t “honorable”–it’s dumb.

        2. Maybe this concept is lost on you: taking the moral high ground is not something you do because you think it will make women stop cheating. It’s something you do because you have integrity, and very little choice in the matter. You act right because you ARE right.

          1. +1

            I believe in Karma. I’ve seen it knock people a few pegs. Yeah, married chicks are easy, but if my game is tight, I can pick up a single one anyways. There is a certain line you don’t cross in ruining other people’s lives. No pussy is worth destroying a fellow man.

            Even the ‘great’ Tyler has illegitimate spawn he has to pay for from his player ways. Women win one way or another. That’s why I LTR hop to avoid the nonsense.

            Also, if that husband found out and he’s a little bit crazy… hope you live to get some more…

      4. @DiamondEyes

        If someone has put some thought into doing something or is going about doing something, they’re already a lost cause.

        Even if your partner never ended up in bed with someone, them trying to make that happen should get them dumped.

    3. For years I’ve been banging a married girl. She rationalizes it by saying her husband is seeing other women. After we finish up she’ll often say things like “Could I be your girlfriend?”

      I reply: “You’d be too much work”. She laughs.

      I used to be the guy who was cheated on. No more.

  6. Dude where is the wife whisperer post i know you copied it but I wanted to read the comments

  7. I see your point, DiamondEyes, but it’s not always that cut and dry. About a year ago I picked up a girl at a bar in DC who was in transit back and forth from France (some State Dept. chick polit hack). In no less than a couple of hours I took her back to her hotel and we got very wicked – she was into all sorts of excitement. No wedding ring apparent, no admission of attachment. At 3am the phone rings and she answers; her boyfriend on the line. After some convo, she hangs up. Ok, I think, a boyfriend, but I’m cool with that if she’s DTF while traveling. So I say, “Everything good?” She says this: “He’s pissed that I won’t drive up and see him while I’m here, but I told him my husband is comng in tomorrow, and so I can’t.” WTF. In essence, with me, she cheated on her boyfriend with whom she’s having an affair on her husband. THAT, my friend, is some convoluted BS.

    Did I know any of that prior to bedding her? Nope. Would it have made a difference? Maybe, I’m not saint, but with no admission on her part, six drinks in and late with her almost dry-humping my leg on a barstool, it wasn’t my part to judge – it was my part to fuck.

    I don’t judge YaReally ’cause most of the time if you’re purely gaming to get laid, morals are the least of your worries. If your woman is DTF with a stranger, no amount of guarding is going to stop her. Rely on her morals… wedding vows? Well, you’ve been here long enough to know those don’t exist.

    My grandfather once told me, and I’ll never forget it. “You wouldn’t get mad at a fish for swimming, or a bird for flying, so don’t get angry if a woman is inconstant… it’s what they are.”

    Remember the golden rule, dude: Women fuck who they want, men fuck who they can.

    1. I agree with everything you said, pretty much. To make myself clear though, it is the maintaining the ongoing relationship that sickens me. Screwing a woman when you are not sure, or when she tells you of her husband as she’s taking your cock in her mouth, doesn’t really count. Most guys would be too weak to say no to that. But to return to that same woman night after night, knowing full well you are helping her destroy a fellow man’s life, is what I call scummy. Ya Really has been talking about banging this cunt for weeks or months. I would never be stupid enough to trust a woman in a relationship, but I wouldn’t be the asshole who knowingly screws some other guys girl either. On any given night I can call any one of about 6 rotating booty calls. With such ample pussy, I have no need at all to mess with anyone who is engaged or married. I wouldn’t even be turned on enough to get it up for such a disgusting whore who would cheat on a fiance.

      1. To be honest, I think men who sleep with married women don’t have game at all. They’re just so desperate to get laid.

        Yet, I do agree that if you didn’t know the first time it’s understandable. If I ever slept with a married woman and she told me afterwards, I would tell her that she’s scum and may Godc have mercy on her useless soul–after I get some breakfast of course.

        Eh, what can you do? Godless society for the win.

        1. lol shit you’re right. I’m actually a virgin in my parent’s basement and this is the only pussy I can get. Your view of the world is completely accurate!

      2. Why is it destroying his life?

        She’s not planning to leave him for me. There’s no emotional relationship going on. When she’s horny and he’s not available she comes over, we bang, she goes home and showers up and they resume their otherwise fine relationship.

        It would be different if I was trying to lure her away from him or fuck up their marriage or if she was looking to land me in a relationship and get me to marry her. If that were the scenario then I’d agree with you.

        I don’t think she’s making great choices, but she can’t really help her sexual urges (signing a paper doesn’t turn them off) and smokers or people who drink aren’t making great choices either. It’s not my place to play judge and jury on everyone else.

        I follow a moral code (like if she gets attached to me and asks me shit about if she could be my girlfriend, I’ll break it off). It’s just a different moral code than yours.

  8. Nice post. But let’s be honest: the descriptions presented above are polar extremes. Few behaviorists today assert that human cognition plays no role in human behavior. And few cognitive psychologists ignore biological motivations and advocate the sort of female emotional masturbation described above as the route to psychological health

    In fact, the most interesting–and the most therapeutically successful perspectives–blend elements of both cognition and behaviorism. The field is called cognitive behaviorism or also rational emotive therapy. And it’s tenets are hard to argue with: it’s not the physical world and its biological imperatives that entirely determines our behavior and happiness. Nor is the world and our happiness magically defined by untethered solipsistic “feelings”. Rather, it’s our accurate perception of the environment and our honest emotional assessment of our biological demands that ultimately determines our psychological health.

    A cognitive dissonant woman carrying an exhausted rationalization hamster around on her back is neither honestly self-aware nor accurately perceiving the world around her. She’s just dysfunctional–no matter how many $10 words she wraps around it.

  9. DiamondEyes-

    Yea, I was taught the same shit as a kid. Luckily I grew out of it when I realized that life shits on people who play by all the rules. And banging a married chick isn’t the same as hitting someone over the head and stealing their wallet, BTW

    You need to ask yourself who this “integrity” benefits. The military wants you to have integrity and do your “duty” to your country. They tend to downplay the fact that in doing so you might end up getting your head blown off. Religion wants you to be moral and have integrity. Be a good little cog in the machine and maybe you will get your share….

    Another thing- when you are banging an attractive chick 9 times out of 10 you are stepping on SOMEONES toes. Married is one level. Maybe she has a fiancee. Or a boyfriend. Or maybe she’s just dating someone else without a commitment. But there’s one thing that’s for sure- if she has any kind of sexual market value there is someone out there who doesn’t like the idea of you fucking her. ATTRACTIVE WOMEN ARE NEVER TRULY SINGLE. They have orbiters and fuck buddies who would rather starngle you than look at you if they know you are banging “their” girl.

    1. “But there’s one thing that’s for sure- if she has any kind of sexual market value there is someone out there who doesn’t like the idea of you fucking her. ATTRACTIVE WOMEN ARE NEVER TRULY SINGLE. They have orbiters and fuck buddies who would rather starngle you than look at you if they know you are banging “their” girl.”

      Well said. Most guys don’t discover this because they hook up with average to ugly girls. But even THOSE girls have a handful of orbiters who secretly hate you for bangin their girl. When you’re looking at the smokin hot girls with high self esteem who have their lives together etc, it’s even worse.

      The girls aren’t even horrible assholes for leading these guys on or dating a guy they’re only “kind of” into while they look for better or more on the side. Society pressures girls into feeling like freaks if they’re not in a relationship. So you take a girl who’s clearly a catch and find out she’s single and the first question she gets asked is “i don’t get it what’s WRONG with you??”. For most of them it become easier to just have SOMEONE reliable and safe as their boyfriend and then hope to find a guy on the side they can monkeybranch to. A lot of them don’t even realize what they’re doing, they legit think they like their guy and when they hook up with another dude “it just happened”

      I’d love to live in a world where things weren’t so complicated and everyone was upstanding and self-aware but that’s not the way the world works, except in the minds of guys who don’t go out and hook up with a large variety of women.

      1. “Well said. Most guys don’t discover this because they hook up with average to ugly girls.”

        And a huge chunk of the guys who are banging hot girls are too afraid to take their heads out of the sand long enough to realize how things really work.

        Chicks don’t make a habit of broadcasting their love life to anyone but their best friends (and often their friends have no idea what really goes on) so it’s pretty easy to buy into the idea that a good looking chick might be single when in reality she has a dozen guys who want to bang her, six of them sit around with their finger on the “like” button on her facebook page but never get a second of her time, a few more she plays texty games with and hangs out with from time to time, one who gets the honor of being her friendzoned BFF, and then there is usually a fuck buddy or a guy who she wants to have “more” with who is the only one who is getting the cookie. That’s your typical 7. If she’s hotter it’s probably even worse, if she’s a 5 or a 6 she probably doesn’t have quite as many pursuing her but she’s still banging someone.

        1. Yep. Dead on. A hot girl isn’t any more celibate than a guy would be if he had a dozen women who want to bang him on any given night.

          The main diff is that if a girl is officially “single” the guy she’s fucking is usually an ex or a really long term fuckbuddy (instead of a random new stranger every night) and usually she categorizes it as “it doesn’t count” along with the guy she fucked on vacation that she’ll
          never see again, guys of another race that she hooked up with but would
          never seriously consider dating, guys she regrets fucking, etc.

          If you’re Secret Society they won’t hide this stuff from you and they’ll even ask you for advice about it. If you’re not SS you will never know how common this is and you will hate posts like this and clutch onto your illusions with a death grip.

  10. And before you say “Well there’s a big difference between someone who is married and someone who isn’t”…..that’s total bullshit. You are either stepping on someone’s toes or you aren’t. And like I said, most of the time if you are banging an attractive chick you are stepping on someone’s toes.

      1. That’s not rationalization, that’s he truth. If you hold a modern marriage in any higher regard than any other kind of male/female relationship that shows me that you really do buy into the bullshit. Stepping on toes is stepping on toes. Flimsy piece of paper or not.

        1. Yeah, some folks (like myself) do think it entails far more than the admittedly worthless piece of legal paper or even the seriousness with which these whorish female take their marriages.

          Call it bullshit all you want. Your delusions are not my problem.

          1. Marriage is a very serious deal that people don’t take seriously.

            Generally the problems are on both sides of the relationship though. A satisfied woman is pretty much impossible to seduce.

          2. A satisfied woman is nearly impossible to seduce, and conversely an unsatisfied woman is often the aggressor when she does decide to cheat.

            The last one that I banged, they were in the car headed home after a night of partying with me and our mutual friend calls me up and says “Hey, Gina says she wants you to come over so she can make out with you.” It wasn’t me doing the escalating, it was her. She was dying to get fucked and I happened to meet enough points on her (truncated, I’m sure) checklist, I said “yes” and made the 15 minute drive to where she was staying and a half hour later we were naked in the spare bedroom.

          3. Good addition.

            My girlfriend doesn’t cheat because I satisfy her. But she may leave me for a guy who gives her more commitment because I don’t satisfy that.

            This engaged chick cheats because her guy doesn’t satisfy her sexually. But she’s not out looking for a new emotional love, in fact a guy that got clingy on her SHE would ditch because her man satisfies that part of what she needs. She doesn’t want a new man to raise a family with, she has a great one that she loves. So all she’s looking for is sex. Sex is all I offer, so our situation works out well.

            If I gave my GF commitment, she would have no reason to seek it out elsewhere. If my engaged chick’s fiancé gave her the sex she wants, she would have no reason to see me.

            I hope for their sake they work it out. She’s slowly trying to get him to open up a little more sexually but it’s tough going so far. I encourage her to keep trying tho and give her advice on how to approach him about it. If she got him to do for her what I do for her that would be awesome to me. Her and I would let things naturally end between us and they could go off and have a wonderful relationship and I would move on to another girl. Everybody wins.

            This is what the “leave them better than you found them” rule means in a scenario like this. Unfortunately it’s not an impossible outcome but a pretty rare one. My point is that I legit wish the best for them both down the road but they have things to work on before they’ll get there.

  11. I’m with DiamondEyes on this. Had a phase when it wasn’t that way, didn’t care for it, because:
    1)Any woman cheating isn’t LTR material, so why fuck over another man so badly for so little gain?
    2)Kant’s categorical imperative.
    3) It’s a weak move in our temporary cultural climate. If we hadn’t this disgenic, gynocentric excuse for a culture the other man SHOULD be able to ressort to violence if he finds out. I think i would basically be hiding behind our pussy-enabling laws and police.
    4) There’s the (small, small) chance the other guy isn’t a wimp, and i end in the morgue.

    1. Wimp with a 12 gauge can end you as fast as a UFC-fighting bad-arse. And he has fewer options and might just be faster to act upon his jealousy.

      1. Yea, yea, like I haven’t heard that line before.

        How many times have you seen or heard of someone you know getting physically harmed over infidelity? I see people cheating all the time and I personally have never heard of any of these situations coming to blows.

        Is it possible? Sure it is. But it’s not very likely.

        1. ya I was going to say that too. The sad reality is the guy probably wouldn’t kick my ass. He’d be more angry at her for betraying his trust. If I was a good friend of his or if I rubbed it in his face it’d be different but I’m just a “random”.

          The guys who think “he’s gonna kill you with a shotgun!!!!! That’s what I’d do!!!!!” are the same guys who think “you can’t open a mixed set, what if the guy is her boyfriend? He’ll KILL you right there!!! That’s what I’d do!!!!”

          Besides, that’s why I don’t tell her any details about me. She knows my first name, a number she can txt me at, and how to get to my place and that’s it. Still enough that he could come knocking on my door but that’s why I do as much research on him as possible (via the Internet and thru casual questioning of her). I have a pic of him, know where he works, what he drives, where he hangs out, how big he is, etc.

          Realistically, I have the verbal skills and general psychological understanding to sympathize with the guy and smooth it over and wish them the best and possibly even help get them communicating. A lot of guys will scoff at that, but a lot of guys haven’t done the things I’ve done, it’s not impossible to befriend a guy after you take his girl, at least to the extent of avoiding getting your ass kicked.

        2. I thought of one situation especially were i- instictively- declined an offer to the share the bed of an HB9-10 because her friend wasn’t a wimp. Why did i know? Her friend backed me up in a situation which would have otherwise been me and my friend against around 20+ friggin immigrants. But i didn’t decline out of moral obligation or fairness, it was
          literally a split second decision along the line “this guy dangerous”, which i told her. I think most people- even most PUAs- ect.- have a very limited awareness of their own social

          1. Intuition is basically your brain making a zillion little calculations in an instant and spitting you out a summarized “feeling”. So your gut tells you “don’t do it” but deep in your subconscious your brain has analyzed a fuckton of stuff at once.

            But it’s something that you develop with experience. A new driver will crash his car because he’ll panic trying to consciously make a decision. A guy who’s a pro driver will instinctively escape the situation while still singing to the radio because he’s on autopilot calculating everything that he’s been they hundreds of times before.

            Guys learning pickup are trying to go from newbie driver to pro but it’s a long process. It’s why someone can study pickup for years but still be awkward socially because they only go out once a week. Whereas someone who’s always in social interactions (like women for instance) develop an amazing social intuition and can “feel” when the vibe changes in an interaction.

            This is why I stress going out. You can’t become a pro driver just reading textbooks.

      2. mmaier2221: I didn’t mean physically weak. A man who has the guts to kill his cheating wife and her lover is no wimp, even if he’s a physically weak cripple.

    2. 3) It’s a weak move in our temporary cultural climate. If we hadn’t this disgenic, gynocentric excuse for a culture the other man SHOULD be able to ressort to violence if he finds out. I think i would basically be hiding behind our pussy-enabling laws and police.

      Testo, it’s funny you mention this. We talk alot here about a feminized society and a femcentric imperative/reality, and I would argue one of the most feminized, femcentric notions is the idea of “talking things out”. Actually, in my view, a key component of the masculine is essentially violence. You solve disagreements with violence. If you go back and look over thousands of years, men solved their disagreements through fighting. The instinct for little boys is to fight on the playground, not talk it through. At least for me, part of swallowing the red pill was abandoing the notion that violence is always wrong. It is often the most productive way to establish your position.

  12. After coming to terms with all of this, or attempting to accept reality for how it is, I have to ask, how is anyone able to remain happy?

    I have been with a number of women, and have really always been the one pursued, and should be happy about that, and even last night was, and today am as well, but now that I realize for the most part what role I play in basically being used by them, whether an ltr girlfriend, a one night stand, a fwb situation, etc…I am shattered emotionally, that they are so heartless, I don’t know how to explain.

    Not a single one of them actually meant what they said/say to me, or was/is truthful. I mean, I’ve never been loved. I feel like that. Has this happened to anyone else?

    I am fucking angry, sad, depressed, miserable now that I know all of this shit. I didn’t want to believe it before I came here amongst other research I’ve been doing, but I agree with basically everything that’s written here & elsewhere on the nature of women; I have known it for some time due to my encounters….but I can’t shake the emotions I have, or that I acquire, for some of them, only one has profoundly left me devastated, and I don’t comprehend it.

    Even as I am making out with a girl in front of her boyfriend I’ll tell myself, maybe she actually DOES like me for me. But no, no women exist in the way I was taught to believe I’d find one. And for the last 7 years I’ve wasted my life viewing most girls as sluts and some as marriage worthy material, when in reality, all women are sluts, and none should be married; I will never have a family. And I can’t even be gay, it’s not in me, so I’m now fucked.

    I am really depressed about all of this, and will probably, if anyone even reads this, be told to man up or some bullshit. How can any man man-up when he realizes he’s been deluded his whole life into thinking that maybe a girl will come along who won’t be like the others?

    Sure, I’ve fucked plenty of women, and each one I’ve fucked, that was all I felt – pleasure, whatever. But, I’ve fallen in love with one, and I realize, now, that I was/am only that, a good [temporary – even if that’s for months, or years, or days, or hours, or minutes] fuck, for her: a commodity.

    I always thought that you could have more than that, and have FELT it before. I don’t feel emotionally stable after taking a lot of this information in, and analyzing my past, and utilizing my newfound knowledge to basically exploit situations, to manipulate them – like a woman.

    Can someone help me? Give me advice on what to do to get over the way that life simply is.

    I am miserable. Is it truly as simple as, accept, move on?

    I’m 23. I have never felt more alone. Knowing now that in the presence of a woman I truly am not something to be held on to, but something to hold, satisfy, and let go of when she feels like sucking the next ‘alpha’ cock that makes it’s way into her mouth, when she ‘didn’t mean to’, into her prioritized, irrationalized, compartmentalized memory, choice center, and then likely come home and kiss me, herself feeling like nothing happened; I feel like I’ve been duped by every single person in my life.

    I think the last relationship I had was like the crazy girl roissy wrote about dating when he was around my age. Or BPD type. I don’t know if I can ever happily be with a woman again. I just want them all to suffer now.

    That’s why I am writing this. I don’t know what to do. She has removed my soul, it feels like. I can’t even write decently anymore, but I can easily pick up girls at bars (fucking worthless). Hence how terribly this was written. Needed to get this off my chest.

    Don’t post it moderator if it’s too ridiculous or makes me look too pathetic. But it’s how I feel.

    1. That pill can be rough going down, can’t it?

      Accept reality. Stop making women such an important part of your life. It will get better as you get older.

      Good luck.

    2. “how is anyone able to remain happy?”
      My thoughts exactly…..I am going through the same phase.

        1. Friends are starting to call me a social robot….its like I talk to people (guys and gals) for 15 mins and i figure them out and then I am sad again.I don’t even care what people think anymore.I was duped … Humanity turned out to be an illusion.Oh and I’m 23 as well.

    3. You sound like a romantic guy, normal at 23. At least you are enjoying some great sex alongside those unrequited romantic feelings – alot of guys choke on the feelings but miss the sex. As far as advice, while AWALT there is a continuum and some girls are more capable of goodness than others, and you may be attracting or attracted to the worst of the lot. There is a good series of posts at [] regarding good guys who attract crazy BPD girls that may interest you. Good luck.

        1. No, no…..a post about how a man can reconcile his red pill knowledge while having to live in a society that is so toxic to men.

          I have a feeling that there are quite a few men out there who are asking themselves this question and it isn’t often discussed. Being married and all you might not have the best vantage point on this but I’m sure you could at least throw out some theories as to how a guy can maintain a positive attitude knowing how women really are and how the deck is stacked against men.

          1. Yes. That’s all I’ve been asking help for. I’ve gone here and solvemygirlproblems a few times (which is actually helpful in weird ways, but I realize he’s just [likely] a business gimmick with lot’s of wit and seemingly empty “rational advice”‘; too “alpha” for me, and I probably would’ve gotten more pussy on a regular basis had I not even began to read this shit).

            But no one addresses my main issue anywhere I look, yet there are comments all over the place about similar feelings; and the rest seem to be so empty of being human I just wonder how so many people get by, am I the only person that is actually effected and affected by our current situation (beyond women)?

            which is the depression I’ve been experiencing apparently swallowing the “red pill” since….I guess my first sexual encounter long ago.

            This is a huge thing, and I know from experience that people go basically one of a few paths, either terrified of women, never having a partner until “the one” comes along and I watch them or have experienced the loss of Self; being with women consistently successfully but with failures as well, & always having other options (me until now, minus two attempts at solid foundational relationships; the ex still trying to get me back after leaving, and I don’t know what to do); falling in love and giving it a full forced effort and doing everything right by what we’re taught only to end up being either cheated on, in a shitty relationship, or leaving the girl because one realizes they really fucking despise their partner (me as well before, unsure now); or fucking any and everything that comes their way, while maintaining an “alpha” mindset (me before, until now), but most of the most successful womanizers or alpha males or whatever I’ve met nowadays are living with their parents or in some shitty state in life, but still being so undeniably confident and happy with reality, that it makes one question the importance of even trying to succeed according to the values one has created for themselves based on ethnographic reasons really, when this other person is doing what apparently makes them happy (until of course they “fall in love”/”oneitis” nowadays and you watch them suffer just as you did/have/will – when emotions happen, which happen strongly and effect men differently than women I’ve seen (time-wise at the very least), only to BE ABLE TO move on, when I’m stuck thinking, thinking, thinking.

            And, having every girl I’ve “loved” come back to me. What the fuck is wrong with them? Thinking I’ll magically be their prince charming hero cupcake father-worthy hero again? No, I fuck them and then dump them by not reciprocating in the way they left me. And even that behavior of mine depresses me, but I don’t realize it until after.

            And the one I was so devastated by, which was a few weeks ago, came back not years later, but days/weeks later, consistently asking to be together, and all I’m left to believe and be told by these “manosphere” blogs and shit is that she didn’t like you, lost attraction, didn’t really love you, was fucking someone else – what gets to me, is now I’ve developed paranoia that if I show emotion aren’t always some alpha being, she’s going to fuck someone else, etc….


            What if the timing was wrong? But we could work out later. Is that so wrong of a thought? Me to say, hey, we tried, let it go, let me get my shit together, and we can fuck more later, and be together. And What if I truly have a problem with something like alcohol and that’s why she left, and once I am sober she wants the man she fell in love with who she actually sees? But then again, does it really matter, because now I am to believe that if I change, she’ll think she changed me, and thus will lose attraction, because she won. I feel like that. I fucking hate feelings. But I can’t do anything about them. I think true men are sociopaths.

            Isn’t it fucking possible that men and women are now exactly the same: emotionally fucked up creatures that need to learn discipline instead of freedom? But who’s going to apply laws and discipline, only the lesser, power hungry beings who seek to rule rather than to both give and receive. MAybe? I don’t fucking know.

            No one addresses the main issue. I know how women are. I know how men are. I know how people are. I am often the one people come to for help, for advice, for an alternative perspective.

            I’m he who is at the crossroads. I feel like Hermes or Exu and I always end up with Pomba Giras.

            & for the devil, where are the angels? In hell.

            We’re just, for monetary gain recycling the same now american bullshit, the same greco-roman myths, the same biblical fantasies. The real issue is economics, but as men we’ve suddenly gained a feminine perspective and are all fucked up in the head (for some like me, who fail at life due to it), at least from what I’ve seen, hence me even writing this. Men shouldn’t have to journal anonymously knowing that it’s not really anonymous, let alone journal at all.

            It’s not America that’s in decline, it’s the entire conscious population.

            No one in power does what’s beneficial for the majority of people, and everyone lesser strives to be greater. But, that’s probably wrong. I’m sure everyone, in power and out, is as lazy as I am, scared now and depressed, trying not to break and become the person you run into later and are glad you are doing better than. What the fuck is better than anyway? Alive? Fucking a whore or a wife, does it make a difference? All of my predisposed thoughts surrounding sexuality have been shattered. I didn’t figure all girls would send you nude pics and ask to have threesomes, I just thought that was for porn stars. Stupid me to think porn chicks weren’t girlfriends. Fuck, that’s all they need to teach us men at a young age now. The women you masturbate to are your girlfriends, and they masturbate to your best friends, so we’re all in one happy orgy together as a species benevolently inspired to do what they don’t want.

            Are we really, with the ability to utilize language, becoming the apes that we once were?

            I hope we are the next dinosaurs. Fuck emotion, it’s pointless to evolution.

            And fuck God, it’s meant for monarchies.

            Are we ever going to learn who and what we are, and do so peacefully?

            One could argue feminism is right, and one could argue it’s wrong. Who fucking cares about the semantics. At this point people should be focusing on how to make people in general living healthy well-being lives.

            Reality is but the reflection of the moon on a pond in the desert.

            Yet we all, including myself, can focus so hyper-ridiculously on things that really are irrelevant that it even sickens me to write all this. To have all of these thoughts. I’ll regret them,and then regret regretting them, having learnt regret, it’s word, and the feeling associated with it. WTF

            I didn’t ask for this. I wanted a simple existence. Were I to exist, or want to exist, which I didn’t ask for, but clearly succeeded in doing, so why? Not existential drama, but really, is it our minds or our bodies that are the problem?

            The amish might have it right. Let em go, construct things, and if they come back and realize that simplicity is comforting to an animal; repeat, in a gated community; if not, they’re not allowed back in, right? I mean after tens of thousands of years of recorded history we’re as a species repeating the same exact patterns as before. What the fuck. Fucking. That’s why? because of gender issues? Are we ever going to be different? I have so many questions. And yet I can write a sestina and get laid a week later. But she’s probably giving head to some other fuck. See where I’m going? This is highly influenced by a lack of self control and the fact that I’m basically anonymous. So don’t give me shit.

            Why can’t humans teach other humans to be how they can, instead of what they could possibly be?

            I was taught, told, raised, and believed differently than how reality is. Not amish btw. And it’s solely been this issue that has destroyed me countless times. With a bitch, a lover, a teacher, or a friend. Nothing was proven as it was taught it would be, unless it were a formula, which still are proven wrong at times. So we should say, learn this: everything you are taught is a lie, so do something else. Is that really how it is? Even with language.

            Maybe I’m drunk. Really drunk.

            But I would appreciate someone writing something about how to deal with the basics of reality. Because I comprehend all else, except for handling emotions apparently. And now I have relayed where those emotions stemmed from, the women or girls or humans I’ve interacted with. Like All’s a mirror.

    4. “After coming to terms with all of this, or attempting to accept reality for how it is, I have to ask, how is anyone able to remain happy?”

      Step 1) Quit expecting other people to live up to your expectations and standards. They’ll just disappoint you. This will make you miserable and disillusioned for a while. You’re currently miserable and disillusioned but right now it’s because you’re still trying to force the square peg in the round hole. You have to let go, and give up. “it’s only after we’ve lost everything that we’re free to do anything.”

      Step 2) After you’ve been thru that stage you have to start finding ways to like people again. You have to start appreciating the moments you have with girls, even knowing they’re fleeting. She’ll always be gone eventually, even if you spend your lives together death will take her. So appreciate the time you have together, whether it’s a 5 minute flirt, a one night stand, or an LTR.

      Step 3) Once you get used to appreciating how finite relationships really are when you take off the Disney rose colored glasses, you have to learn to accept people despite their faults. People all have flaws. In a way, knowing their flaws means you know them better than their admirers who think they’re infallible. Find the good in them and love them for who they are, not for who you wish they were.

      It’s a long, long road and it’ll fuck with your head. But it’s a common one for guys studying pickup and seduction. Some guys don’t come out the other side, they get stuck where you are and become miserable human beings. But the guys who make it thru live a pretty happy life. They see people as they truly are and can accept and love them that way. Those are the guys who can date an ugly girl with a good personality and legit not care what anyone thinks, or who can date a hot girl with a defensive bitch shield and see the good in her where other people just label her as a shitty human being. They’re the guys who can be friends with beta guys and understand them instead of resent and hate them.

      It all sounds feel-good lovey dovey but it’s there at the end of the tunnel. You have to work at it though. Good luck!

    5. This is exactly the situation I find myself in at present. I am so fucking angry that I have been duped all these years and just want to see the whole world engulfed in flames. I used to see women as delicate wallflowers, now I see them for what they truly are: vicious, self serving cunts.

      But I will rise from the ashes of my broken soul and look forward to the day when I finally no-longer give a single shit about any whore because then I will truly be free.

  13. or wait, roissy, rational male, or whoever this blog and others like it are written by. sorry for the confusion, and for the bitching. was linked here from somewhere else.

  14. “One of the primary reasons men, and particularly the newly Game-aware red pill Men, see women’s actions as duplicitous and/or immoral is because they believe that women are on some level aware of their own hypocrisy. It frustrates men’s rational behavioristic psychology that in spite of being shown irrefutable evidence of women’s contrary behaviors they will still insist that they “just don’t know what comes over them.””

    That’s exactly where I am right now. I’m literally stunned that one woman in particular can one day treat me so well then another day shit all over me. These few sentences explains it all right here.

    Thanks Rollo, I’ll definitely be sticking around…

  15. The flaw in DiamondEye’s mugging analogy:

    A man’s wallet = a man’s legal property.
    A woman ≠ a man’s property.

    The analogy ignores the pesky little detail of a woman’s freewill.

    In fact, in the case of an engaged woman sleeping with another man: the man she’s engaged to is likely HER “property.” If she feels compelled to step out on her fiancé, she probably knows she can get away with it. She probably knows he’ll forgive her for any number of reasons listed on this blog and others.

    The other issue I have with DE’s argument is the concept of Team Man vs. Team Woman. Sorry guys, but if we’re going with sporting analogies, I’m way more inclined to view all other men as the opposing team in the SMP, not women.

    Any man advocating that all others should avoid a betrothed woman on moral grounds is likely afraid of his companion cheating on him. If he is, he probably should be.

    1. You never own the pussy.

      When you are truly able to wrap your head around that concept you will see things very differently.

      1. Yep. The types who are like “karma will get you!!!” and “hope this happens to you one day asshole then you’ll know how it feels!!!” don’t understand that I fully accept that a girl I’m with may stray on me. Especially if I’m not satisfying her.

        I have a main LTR girl right now and for now she’s alright with me playing around and us keeping things as boyfriend/girlfriend and nothing more serious. But over time she’ll probably want to push things further and move in together, get married, have kids etc. I’m not prepared to offer her those things.

        So when that day comes, if she meets a guy who’s looking for something more serious, she will probably leave me for him. I understand that. She want X and I’m not providing X so she’ll seek it elsewhere. That’s fine. I’d be sad and everything because it’s a bummer to lose someone you love. But if it was a massive concern to me and I couldnt bear losing her then I would find a way to provide X for her.

        It’s not possible for me to be the fiancé of this scenario because I don’t view women as my property. They’re free to do what they want. All I can do is be the best guy I can be and hope that’s enough. If its not, that’s alright, there are other girls who it may be enough for.

  16. Don’t be so eager to throw out morals.

    Think twice before stepping on toes.

    One day you will wish for mercy.

    Yet, nobody will hear for you have no soul.

    It’s not about God. It’s about living with yourself. When you’re on your deathbed with regrets, wondering what will happen next. It would be nice to have a clear conscious.

    When society crumbles, you will wish that morals still existed, while your getting sodimized by a barrel of a gun by that guy you screwed over–just saying.

    1. lol silly nonsense.

      Morals are simply labeling grey areas as black and white based on your beliefs, upbringing, religion, social conditioning, etc.

      You should get out more. Meet a bigger variety of people and cultures.

      1. Look. I have nothing to prove to you. All you do is regurgitate nonsense from Tyler ‘the great’. I go out plenty. I just choose to LTR hope for my own well bring as a man. You are nothing to me. If you don’t like what I post, GTFO.

        If you want to be the scum of the Earth, go ahead. I live my life honorably and with integrity. Does that mean I don’t get laid? No. And if you think that then you are more full of shit than I already think you are. I just choose to not screw people over. Married pussy is not worth the hassle; a girl with a BF is not worth the hassle. I have a reputation and a business to upheld. I’m not going to let some snatch ruin that. Grow up, kid.

        1. You are a stellar human being and you are way better than anyone else. I hope one day we all adjust our moral compasses to follow your shining example.

          1. I could care less if you adjust. It’s just my opinion. See that nifty scroll bar? Keep rollin, brah. That shit will come back to you, and it doesn’t have to be your future relationships.

            Remember, I don’t believe in marriage. I’m not some sucker to feed the machine, but I’m on Man’s side. I will support my brothers over pussy. Yet, you can’t help it can you? Still worshiping it, huh? Yeah, you get some alright, but you don’t care what you destroy to get it. Good shit, brah. Let me know how lonely it is at the top.

            Keep up the good fight.

  17. Quickly then I probably won’t mention it again; I have been wondering where the terms are from (Game: maybe from the book I haven’t read because I heard it doesn’t say much about Game anyway)/(Red Pill: maybe from the movie The Matrix that I did see, though there is also Red and Blue states). If society does “fall apart” I think it will be caused not by gender dynamics but by the beta-governments monetary national debt or something far worse. Personally, I would not knowingly get intimate with a married woman, it could only happen with me if because most women wear a bunch of rings these days she didn’t say so. Yet another reason to never get married to begin with. There is competition with other men for women, but I view it as a friendly competition like a pick-up basketball game (because it’s not for the more seriousness of monogamy as I’m not going to get married so I can take her or leave her so to speak), out in the field of MANogamy if a woman goes with another man instead of me then that’s ok, I will simply find another. Looking into online dating (I’ve never seen so much silly stuffed typed ever as most of their profiles) briefly taught me to not take anything a woman says seriously.
    “I am an Oak Tree.”

    1. “but I view it as a friendly competition like a pick-up basketball game ”

      If the guy in my scenario found out about us and confronted me I would break it off. No biggie. At this point I’m not actively hurting him since he doesn’t know anything’s going on. If he found out about us and I knew it was hurting him, I’d back off because then its being a dickhead.

      It’s actually completely possible that she’ll fool around on the side for a few years while they go through getting married and she’ll get a lot of it out of her system and settle down as they decide to start having kids. In that scenario no one is really hurt. It’s like the guy who cheats on his wife some drunken night but realizes his wife is better than random sex and now that it’s out of his system he can appreciate the wife he has.

      Lots of shades of grey in life.

  18. One more note regarding sex with married women-

    If you place that much value on a sexual encounter, ANY sexual encounter, you are placing too much value on women. When you factor in how much they REALLY care about you above and beyond using you as a means to an end they are nothing more than warm, wet holes.

    Any guy who gets his panties in a bunch over this stuff obviously doesn’t understand how insignificant women really are.

  19. I want to write this question in a general response to the entirity of Anony’s post of his issue. The crippling depression from thinking about the ideas here and the manosphere.

    The core source of the feeling is simple from the acceptance of AWALT. ALWALT as in all women are ho’s. ALWALT as in no women are capable of love. ALWALT as in all women will cheat and feel no guilt and regret.

    I want to ask that aren’t we accepting the “truth” a bit too much? As in to the point of exageration. This is not to argue that there is an “exception girl” and you can find her and be happy forever and ever and ever, taking AWALT to the furthest end means rejection of the entire concept that there’s exist a spectrum in type of women. Just because there is no special flower girl who exist outside the laws of biomechanics and attraction, it doesn’t mean there’s some who does behave better than others. Which you can reward to that behavior reasonably.

    The post is says we need to judge by a girl’s behavior, not her words.

    Not judge a girl by her behavior when she acts like heartless, cheating, lying whore and those who do not observe that behavior then she’s a heartless, cheating, lying whore who’s cunning enough to hide it.

  20. Shit, I know of a woman who isn’t getting good sexy time in her marriage and she is paying some guy to sex her up.

  21. Way late to this discussion…..but I’ve got to chime in. My ex-wife cheated on me, and I can say that sent me into a pretty deep despair that was probably one of the catalysts for my swallowing of the red pill:

    I’m not going to try and convince any of you dudes banging married/engaged women to stop because it would be pointless anyways. I actually do believe in karma, and believe it is a bitch, but each man has to decide for himself what he will or won’t do. I know on the Internet everyone is a badass, but anyone who knows me in real life knows what I bring to the table. Straight up truth, any guy who was banging my girl would get beat down so hard he might not be functional, and it would really just be about taking out the aggression I couldn’t take out on her without serving 10+ years. Point being, if you are banging other guy’s women, you just better make sure the guy isn’t someone capable and willing to doing serious harm. Most cases, it probably is some pussy who won’t do shit, but you never know when you’ll cross the wrong dude.

    All that said, I understand don’t hate the player hate the game. I saw this shit when I was bouncing. I remembe an engaged chick who was banging the head bouncer. My opinion is there is a special place in hell for women who do this. There is just something really low about sucking in the beta chump for provisioning while banging other guys on the side.

    1. If you carry that much rage toward something that is a natural function of biology it shows that you have yet to swallow the pill. Yea, it’s pretty fucking horrible, and it is about the worst thing that can happen to a man but it is nothing more than female human nature 101. Anger is a natural reaction to this but once you understand it for what it is you simply walk away. Your lease is up, time to let someone else take over payments on the used merchandise.

      1. Maybe we got different doses…

        Speaking of “natural function of biology”, male sexual jealousy is probably at or near the top of primal biological drives. If a guy is engaged or married, then presumably there is some level of deep emotional investment as opposed to the fairly detached view a guy could maintain with a booty call or FWB.

        In any case, I’d say anger even rage is a pretty normal biological response to finding out YOUR girl is being drilled by some other guy. So the question becomes what is the normal biological response to anger, especially as a male. Speaking biologically, I actually think violence is the pretty normal response. Now the reality is 99% of guys won’t react violently because they have been taught all their lives to repress it. They will “walk away”. All I’m saying is a guy who makes a regular habit of getting involved with married chicks increases the risk of coming across the 1% of guys who won’t and/or have the capacity to do tremendous damage. That may be an acceptable risk. I just wonder if the guys could accept that like a man if that day ever came. At least to me, one key aspect of being a man instead of a woman, is that you are always willing to face the consequences of what you do realizing that if you play with fire you have to be cool with knowing you might get burnt someday.

        When I was bouncing, I’d see these pussy ass guys who would talk shit to guys they shouldn’t be talking shit to, and then expect the bouncer to come save his ass when he was in over his head. All I’m saying is realize that when you “step on a guy’s toes” you might eventually have to square off with a guy who will put his steel-toed boot up your ass. If and when that day comes, don’t ask for help from Mommy (feminized society)

  22. Probably OT, but not entirely. It was summer 2006, and I had switched bars I was bouncing at. One night I am working, and in comes a guy who I had bounced with at a different bar. This guy was a total hothead, and would go on and off the juice all the time. This time he was definitely on a cycle. And he was a amateur boxer as well. I can tell you he hit like a fucking sledgehammer. I’m not ashamed to admit he was one guy I was really afraid to piss off, because I had seen up close and personal the kind of damage he could do.

    Long story short, that night some average Joe type guy starts jawboning to him and pestering a girl with him. This keeps up until I tell the guy (average Joe) he needs to shut the fuck up and apologize to the guy right away. To this day, I literally have no idea what the hell this guy was thinking, and I wasn’t about to say one wrong word to the guy I had bounced with and get him pissed at me and get my ass kicked.

    The shit talking got out of hand, I kicked the guy out, and the bouncer I worked with followed him outside and proceeded to hurt him very badly. From what I heard he ended up in the hospital.

    IDK…the year I spent bouncing away from the confines of the civilized office cubicle world taught me there are some big, fucking, nasty dogs out there. Any guy should have a good sense of where he stacks up if he decides he wants to head into another dog’s space, and that goes well beyond just women.

  23. Wow!!!! I can’t believe I actually read every entry posted here.

    First of all, great writing Rollo. Your blog is intelligent and informative.

    To: “YaReally” and “Good Luck Chuck” excellent responses and well-thought out answers.

    To Anony, take to heart what these three guys (Rollo, YaReally and Good Luck Chuck) are advising. They are right on.

    Additionally, here’s a few from me. All women are not the same. There are 12 different types of women. Each with their own set of characters, personalities and attitudes.

    As men we have a tendency to wear a “one-size fits all” cap when dealing with women. Dealing successfully with different women require different skill sets.

    First, you need to understand the different types of women.
    Second understand your own character type.
    Third, make sure you’re compatibly matched.
    Lastly, continue to improve yourself and your relationship skills.

    The 12 Different Types of women are as follows:
    1. Gold Digger. 2. Diva. 3. HOllywood. 4. Actress. 5. Sweetheart.
    6. Shy Girl. 7. Daddy’s Girl. 8. Bad Girl. 9. Miss Independent.
    10. Mother Goose. 11. Superwoman. 12. Feminist.

    Some are great for ONLY dating. Some are great for ONLY business.
    Some are great for Relationships…capable of loving you the way you deserved to be loved. Character of a woman means everything.

    A HOllywood types isn’t capable of loving you the way a Sweetheart could.
    She just don’t have it in her. From everything you’ve said, bottom line is you want Love and Connection (we all do). That requires choosing the right type of girl. Choose based on her Character, Attitude and Personality, not just looks. Focus on the Inside/Out approach vs the Outside/In.

    Then figure out your own Character Type. Are you a Nice Guy, Shy Guy, Entrepreneur or Superman type. A Pimp or Player type, etc….

    Match your type with her type and you will be happy, guaranteed.

    Life is about finding that Harmonious balance not just with nature but with ourselves and others. Also life is about becoming BETTER not BITTER.

    So continue getting better at improving your self and your level of social communication with others. Communication creates connection. Connection always leads to Affection.

    Hope this helps….(damn, I wrote a lot…lol)

    I barely ever read blogs, much less, leave a post. But I found this one insightful and intelligent.

    “Rollo, YaReally and Good Luck Chuck”, get in contact with me. Let’s write a book and do a course together, to educate, inspire and empower more men.

    Reach me at:
    (702) 300-1376

      1. yeah, what? god damn it. 300? ah. Rollo, thank you, regardless.

        I have no where else I can go now.

  24. You are using the terms wrong.

    Behaviorism is a discredited school of psychology based on the blank slate view of the brain. It is nonsense because it denies that humans have any innate mental traits whatsoever and are molded by the environment. This school forms much of the basis of leftist PC social science, feminism and marxism.

    Cognitive science on the other hand acknowledges and studies the innate hormones, genetics, and instincts that drive’s human behavior, emotions, thoughts and personality. It forms much of the backbone of evolutionary psychology.

    By the way, humans (male and female) are not rational at all, not even the most intelligent. Reason is nothing more than a rationalization of a person’s innate instincts, emotions and cognitive biases, not separate from them at all. It is not the same thing as logic and humans wouldn’t even have the ability to reason if they didn’t have emotions. Rationalism is the one of the biggest forms of self-delusion because it comes from body-mind dualism.

  25. @diamondeyes: “Screwing a married woman once on vacation? Not admirable, but there’s a lot worse you could do. Maintaining an ongoing relationship screwing some other man’s fiance? Scummy as fuck.”

    it’s not a man’s obligation to respect the marriage; it’s hers. if he’s not raping her, guess what… she WANTED TO GET FUCKED.

    so, if you’re judging the man and forgiving the poor, little innocent woman for being who she is, you’re doing it wrong.

    she wants to get fucked. either you’re gonna do it or someone else will, but her need to fuck will be met.

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