Pushing Forwards Back

 

 

Recently I’ve been sifting through the comments at the Chateau and some other blogs regarding the Kristen Stewart dust up about her “infidelity” with Rob Pattinson in favor of a married, 41 y.o. movie director. The PMs barraged my inbox for a week. Alright, alright, you got me, I’ll give you my take,..

I was loathe to even broach the topic considering the yeasty pop-culture discharge that Twilight-Moms are rutting in after this “devastating bombshell shocker!” 12 dead in an Aurora theater? That’s terrible, but a 22 year old HB 6 cheating on Edward for an older established movie director? That’s fucking news. Once women make an emotional connection with a narrative, it’s a very tall order to get women to make the separation of fantasy from reality.

Needless to say, I’m hearing the manufactured indignation in real life. It’s spreading amongst social circles, on talk radio topics – even my daughter’s 14 y.o. friends are dropping their 2¢ about how worldly and knowledgable they are as to why ‘Bella’ would cheat on ‘Edward’. As I wrote in Indignation, from a very early age girls / women have a psychological need for something beyond the mundane life that their security need drives them to. Kristen Stewart is an excellent example of this conflict because she represents a strata of woman who, minus her celebrity, is very mundane herself. Put her in an evening dress and maybe she cleans up to an HB7 on the Tomassi scale. She’s not a stunner, but then, that’s why she’s the perfect Lego brick to play Bella; socccer moms and tweens can see past her as a place holder into which they can cast themselves in her role.

But hypergamy doesn’t care about the social conventions and ‘IRL’ romantic expectations of Twilightees. Hypergamy demands optimization in terms of excitement, long-term security and Alpha dominance relative to a woman’s capacity and opportunity to maximize them all.

Lost in the midst of all this we have 26 year old Edward Rob Pattinson experiencing his WTF? moment. While he’s ostensibly a good looking guy and a Contextual Alpha, the lesson to be learned here is one which may confuse red-pill noobs. Why the fuck would Stewart ‘cheat’ on a guy who’s adored and desired by millions of women? Because hypergamy doesn’t care.

When a woman’s self-perceived SMV exceeds the degree to which she perceives is the SMV of the man she’s with, this is the point at which she will seek out (or be open to the advances of) an Alpha she believes exceeds her own SMV.

If that sounds counterproductive, just remember this dynamic relies primarily upon a woman’s self-perceptions and is predicated upon her acknowledging the phase of life in which she finds herself in according to the SMP. In the age of social media, women now have an ubiquitous source of ego inflation available to them like never before. This contributes to women’s overblown sense of worth and entitlement in a way society has never experienced.

Going Feral

The Kristen Stewart affair is really an illustration of a much broader dynamic however. Recently on the SoSuave forum member Backbreaker related a story about a friend who’d gone through much of the same thing (albeit to a more mundane degree) poor Rob Pattinson has just experienced. The thread is extremely long and well debated, but the plot summary is really one of an unfortunate guy on the receiving end of his girlfriend’s hypergamic optimization. His friend was traded for another, better option. From a life perspective, he’d failed to keep pace with this girl’s hypergamic imperative and was thus selected-out by it.

As I wrote in Navigating the SMP there is a particular window of opportunity for women whilst in their prime SMV years (22-24) that less and less women want to consciously recognize – or at least they aren’t encouraged to recognize thanks to feminized social conventions, and the ego-fuel of social media. Precious few women are self-aware of the hypergamic impulses their subconscious is driven by, and thus their behaviors are manifestations of.

When women get to be 25-29 there is a limbic, subliminal understanding that her window of hypergamic opportunity is closing. A woman’s hindbrain knows on an animalistic level that her period of maximally optimizing her hypergamy is closing, thus the motivation to pair off monogamously with the best provisioning male begins to take priority over fucking the best genetic (most sexually arousing) males she was happy to pair off with in her prime (22-24).

In Backbreaker’s, our subject woman is merely a common illustration of this process. So, in this respect, and strictly for purpose of example, I can understand Backbreaker’s line of reasoning. Young men need to be aware of the ruthlessness and callousness of this feral, evolutionary process. As a Man, you do in fact need to keep pace with the hypergamic imperative that WILL rear its ugly head when the moment and opportunity of a better hypergamic prospect present itself. Sometimes, even a woman’s perceptual prospect of a better optimized hypergamy is enough to set the process in motion. A woman’s hypergamic urgency declines as she comes to accept her diminished capacity to optimize hypergamy, but as a Man, the need to prove yourself will always be an aspect of your relationship with a woman.

If there’s fault to be found it’s not in women’s seeming duplicity about her ‘feelings’ versus her hypergamy-motivated actions; the real fault is in young Men believing in pollyanna fantasies about true love, soul-mates and feminized romance porn in favor of the harsh realities of hypergamy.

Ethical wonks will want to have their say, “She’s a slut! She’s a hypocrite! Perfidious woman! Have you no honor? Men are made of different stuff, we’re the moral cement that holds society together, unlike you amoral weaklings.” No one gets mad when wolves on the tundra tear the throat from a caribou. No one calls them evil for messily devouring the carcass; they’re just doing what nature has embedded into their instincts to do.

“But human’s aren’t wolves Rollo, we have freewill, you wouldn’t understand because you’re not as morally attuned as I am.”

Yes, human’s aren’t wolves, and we do in fact exercise a great measure of freewill, but for all of that, presumptively righteous, self-guided refusal of determinism we are still subject to the same feral instincts. Our natural state is not one of self-control, so why are we shocked at the environment that sets the frame for us to even have any concept of what control even means? Evo-psych, hypergamy, natural instinct isn’t deterministic, it is probablistic.

We ignore at our peril the evolutionary results that directed us to the conditions we find ourselves in. When it doesn’t serve our purpose we call it weakness or moral turpitude; but when it does, that feral energy, that righteous anger, that sweaty bloodlust we evolved in the wilderness so long ago that helped us run down a caribou ourselves, that instinct we call courage or determination and we put angels wings on it in appreciation.

Backbreaker took a lot of heat for his assessment of his friend’s ‘progress’ in life. The title of the thread, “If you aren’t going forward, you are going backwards” set the tone for the discussion. In a sense he faults his friend for the demise of his relationship due to his lack of progress or ambition, but this doesn’t come from malice or ill intent. Rather he uses the scenario (not unlike the Stewart affair) to make the point that a Man must continually grow and become more than he is in order to survive and thrive. The distinction that men need to make is the difference between success motivated by the need for pussy, and an abundance of pussy that is the by-product of a man’s success.

Hypergamy doesn’t care about your moral interpretations. Hypergamy doesn’t care about your personal motivations to achieve and become more than you started with, it only cares about what you are. If that makes you feel slighted or morally indignant, go read War Brides. Yeah, that’s some really fucked up hypergamy right there, but the question isn’t whether it’s moral or not, the question is ‘what do you plan to do about it?’


65 responses to “Pushing Forwards Back

  • Ron

    I like what you say about probability. “Our natural state is not one of self-control, so why are we shocked at the environment that sets the frame for us to even have any concept of what control even means? Evo-psych, hypergamy, natural instinct isn’t deterministic, it is probablistic.”

    The concept of self-control can also be applied to our animalistic state. If your survival is threaten, you might inhibit certain actions such as poaching the wife of your boss.

    However, exercising self-control is probabilistic. Sometimes you can override your impulses, and sometimes you cannot.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    True, but the starting point of ‘control’ is natural impulses. In other words you don’t turn them off. You wouldn’t know what control was if your condition wasn’t dictated by your natural impulses.

  • Tertullian

    Excellent article.

    Now let’s all brace ourselves for a lengthy, verbose screed from “King A (Matthew King)” telling us that it’s our job as men to “man up” and deal with female hypergamy, no matter that the consequences of failure will likely be divorce, loss of one’s assets, a precipitious drop in standard of living, depression, loss of access to one’s children, and a host of other ills besides.

  • Jynxi

    What am I gonna do about it? I’m gonna put a rattle snake in the cookie-jar.

  • Ras Al Ghul

    “No one gets mad when wolves on the tundra tear the throat from a caribou. No one calls them evil for messily devouring the carcass; they’re just doing what nature has embedded into their instincts to do.”

    Farmers get mad when wolves take down his livestock. And they wiped them out in the United States until they were reintroduced. Wolves have been a metaphor for wanton sexual aggression for a long time and symbolic of evil.

    The idea of accepting something because that’s they way it is, is the sign of a decaying culture and civilization.

    Civilization is an act of defiance. It is defiance against our animal natures, it is in defiance of the state our ancestors were born into. It requires curbs on human behavior in order to survive, and strong ones.

    That said, every man on the planet should know what hypergamy is and how it works.

  • Rock Throwing Peasant

    “No matter how hot a woman is, there is one guy who is tired of f***ing her.”

    “No matter how Alpha a guy is, he can be flaked on.”

  • Stingray

    To play off of RTP, alpha is not alpha in every situation (and hypergamy doesn’t care).

  • Wald

    What made you choose that picture?

  • Grit

    Hypergamy is a tricky subject because you could say, “Well, he isn’t moving forward” yet if he behaved exactly the same but meanwhile was covertly banging three other regulars, she would probably launch into a tizzy of emotion about him. Backbreaker would then be writing a thread like “Damn! Whats the point of moving forward when you could be a manager at a shitty restaurant and pull all this ass! I don’t get what she sees in this guy!”

    Backbreaker makes a mistake in tring to translate a woman’s hypergamous actions into advice for how a man should live his life.

    At some point, like you say, he was a contextual failure, but consider that much of human history is battening women down with isolation and labor so that they cannot meet every man in town. In other words, society precluded the ability to even have a contextual comparison.

    Thats why the business world was for men, voting was for men, land owning was for men, etc.

    It’s easy to have a soft ignorance of the moral/traditional argument when you hang around with women and want access to their vaginas. Any kind of hard stance will ostracize you from the liberal mindset of young girls. Consider this though. We as humans are evolutionarily no different than the people during the Inquisition or the Salem witch trials or the Crusades. We still have the cognitive ability to 180 and strike down hyperamous and amoral behavior. So what conditions are going to swing the pendulum back?

    I guarantee that excusing hypergamy is one of them.

  • Team-Red

    Legalize the World’s Oldest Profession.

    Hypergamy would be stopped dead in its tracks and significantly subdued by simply removing the power of sex from women.
    [Or make a reliable male hormonal contraceptive globally available that removes the power of controlling birth from women and places that power in the hands of men. When men can unilaterally decide which woman will get pregnant and when, only then will hypergamy be controllable again.]

  • Samuel Solomon

    hypergamy does not care about ethics AT ALL.

    Men, recognize- you can be “Edward” and still get dogged. You can also hit on “Bella” and HAVE HER, if you have tight game- your game can overcome even one of the most desired men on the planet.

  • Jack

    It requires curbs on human behavior in order to survive, and strong ones.

    That’s the Conservative argument; that the state should regulate culture and sexuality.

    The Classical Liberal / libertarian argument is that the state should prevent the initiation of physical force and that’s it. Society would devise its own feedback loops to self-regulate itself.

    I’m a libertarian. Abolish the welfare state, abolish the regulatory agencies, abolish the central bank and socialized money, end the victimless crime laws, allow prostitution, remove all egalitarian elements to divorce law, remove all affirmative action including Title 9 subsides for the universities, end all public education…

    Basically establish self-responsibility as the law of the land. That too would go a long way towards creating a more moral society, lessening the harsh consequences of female hypergamy, and ending the potential for civilizational destruction that the Left is pushing the West towards.

    So often we forget that most of the problems we see in the SMP are really primarily due to the Left. The Left is evil.

  • Jack

    Men, recognize- you can be “Edward” and still get dogged. You can also hit on “Bella” and HAVE HER, if you have tight game- your game can overcome even one of the most desired men on the planet.

    Yes, but if Patterson had been running tight LTR game would this have happened? I tend to think no.

  • Aphelion

    I’m not sure if anyone properly expressed this here so far, at least to the degree that it needed to be, but this was an absolute boss article and should be required reading for all men, young and old.

  • jimmy

    ……Man must continually grow and become more than he is in order to survive and thrive.
    Maybe an add on to this is not to mistake motion for growth.
    Some one (Pattinson) may appear for all the world to be going some where but not going far or only in a loop.
    The graph has to be upwards at a significant enough gradient and maintain a certain rate – as going forwards or the appearance of such may attract but eventually not keep (if that is the desired long term outcome).

  • Jon

    Rollo, what’s your take on Libery Ross’ husband – Libery looks stunning in recent photos (see link below) compared to Stewart, as she switched to non-mummy mode: from her husbands perspective, if she’d switched modes earlier, I’m sure he wouldn’t have been tempted by KS. With two children, if he ends up getting dumped over a brief fling with Kristen it seems a big loss for little reward… He should have read your wife gaming post or picked a more discrete mistress (not that I condone that in a committed relationship with children).

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2185206/Rupert-Sanders-Liberty-Ross-reunite-time–ditches-sidewalk-enjoy-slap-lunch-mystery-man.html

  • Daniel

    “Yes, but if Patterson had been running tight LTR game would this have happened? I tend to think no.”

    We don’t know for sure because only two people know for sure what went on inside that relationship, assuming they weren’t bearding for each other. I think with some women you can have the tightest game and you still can/will get cheated on. What would happen if you tried to have a stable LTR with a stripper, a drug addict or a girl with severe daddy issues? Also, Stewart is under 25. I think relationships below that age tend to be combustible for any number of reasons, usually because of immaturity on the part of one or both partners. She also branch-swung and left a long-term boyfriend to get with Pattinson to begin with, so I think the adage of “if they’ll cheat with you then they’ll cheat on you” applies.

  • Grit

    Do you think that guy is going to have fuzzy feelings for another woman again? Or will they be forever tempered? What about if he were going to marry? Would he even want to risk it?

    Too many guys are opting/ going to opt for spinning plates. It only takes one hard social fuck-over for guys to seek the red pill. See the guy in that thread who is “catch and release from now on.”

    I would say that non-committed monogamous relationships are the wave of the future, but feminists see the plate spinners and probably double their efforts to ratchet men down with laws and shaming. I think the next step will be more concerted effort to legally define “relationships” so that women can get support from one night stands, etc. Or some law that requires a taxable monentary exchange for having uncommitted sex.

    Remember: hot women get financial support automatically from enthusiastic horny men, but plain (and slutty) women are left out. See the Duke Slut List author Karen Owen as an example. She is probably the kind of empowered chick who is going to want financial security from all of the power cocks she rode in college. She probably feels entitled to it, so can you imagine her as a politician?

  • furiousferret

    What exactly does Stewart having going for her that all these dudes are willing to either A) be in love with her like Patterson or B) risk public scrutinity like the director?

    As was said in the article, she is an HB 6 – 7 at best. She also seems to have an aloof manish personality. Both men probably have a lot better options than her.

  • Candide

    Let me straighten out the backbreaker’s story using your own analogy, Rollo.

    The farmers aren’t that mad at the wolves for killing their sheep. They are angry at the government for making it illegal for them to defend their stock against wolves. Additionally, they are pissed at one of their supposed neighbours and friends (backbreaker) who is housing & feeding a wolf that killed their sheep. It didn’t help that said neighbour is pointing & laughing at them, calling them losers. It got really juicy when it was revealed that the neighbour is a fraud and every single accomplishment he’s ever (relentlessly, with every opportunity, I might add) bragged about to them is now in doubt (and most of them sound like straight up bullshit). The only loser in the story is that said braggart.

    Besides, Rollo, you don’t sound like you know anything about wolves and farming. Farmers do/did get mad at wolves (and foxes) for killing their stock, which is why they hunted them to near extinction at one point.

    No farmer in this story is crying over the nature of the wolves, which is what you keep repeating over and over with your narratives. These aren’t Blue farmers we’re talking about here, they are Red farmers, who know the wolves’ nature better than wolves themselves. They are angry at other things, as I explained.

    You’re pushing the “wolves don’t care” meme into the wrong context.

  • theprofessor

    “A woman’s hypergamic urgency declines as she comes to accept her diminished capacity to optimize hypergamy, but as a Man, the need to prove yourself will always be an aspect of your relationship with a woman.”

    (contextual) Alphas tend to supplicate into beta-ness after the chase is over. looks to be patterson’s case with twilight girl.

  • furiousferret

    (contextual) Alphas tend to supplicate into beta-ness after the chase is over. looks to be patterson’s case with twilight girl.

    But why to begin with? I’m probably the first guy to mock dudes that say they wouldn’t do such and such model/star. Stewart is NOT hot.

  • Realiti Czech

    “Yes, but if Patterson had been running tight LTR game would this have happened? I tend to think not”
    You’re giving way too much credit to game. Game is like counting cards in Blackjack. Counting cards doesn’t mean you’ll win every time, it just improves your odds. You can still lose.
    It might’ve helped if he’d been less beta… but the odds were against him. The director is the boss of the film. He’s got power. This is attractive. Second, he is married – another point to director. Married people are ‘safe’ to flirt with. If you’re turned down, he’s just being dedicated to his wife. If he accepts, well, it’s his fault. Third, ‘Edward’ is just a coworker. He is an equal. The director can and will tell ‘Edward’ what to do, when to do it, and how. How ‘alpha’ are you going to look in that environment?

  • S

    Hmmm,

    My take on it is that there could be a mental heath issue going on here…not that I am a devastated “Twi-hard” or whatever but I remember reading an interview with her a few weeks back where she lamented her perfect life and expressed desire for something fucked up to happen to her.. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/15/kristen-stewart-elle-magazine-cover-_n_1517927.html

    Even if you watch an interview with her, she seems a bit all over the place..extremely uncomfortable, agitated and almost a little unhinged. So OK, the director like Robert an attractive man who is successful in a manner that would appeal to women…but if you look at the photos…it is strikingly apparent that she wanted to get caught. She fucked up so spectacularly..I’m not entirely sure she is enough of a dumbass to allow that to happen unintentionally….they were caught frolicking in the Hollywood Hills for God’s sake.

    Anyhow there is either some elaborate PR working going down here or she’s just going a bit loo-lah and was somehow able to seduce a married director into coming along for the ride.

  • xsplat

    “Man must continually grow and become more than he is in order to survive and thrive.”

    I’ve been watching as a core principle of “game” has been swinging to a new view. An old view was that game was = to attitude and verbal skill and body language. Nowadays people are coming around to including more structural elements to overall attraction, such as your physique and income. No longer are people boiling everything down to nothing other than confidence. The realism is harsh for newbs who need all the false confidence they can get, but it is refreshing and ultimately beneficial.

    I’m dating an attractive young women. I took a risk and moved us out to Bali a while back, a place swimming with Australian surfer dudes and crawling with competition. I’m short, balding, and was quite poor health. I consider my LTR game to be tight, but structurally I was setting myself up to fail.

    So I moved us out of there, started a new medical regimen, started squirting HGH, am hitting the gym and boxers speed and heavy bags as hard as I can without overtraining, and bought a quality keyboard and an electric guitar. I’ve cut off the competition and upped my value as fast as possible.

    Now my health and stamina are greatly improved, which means the fucking has greatly improved.

    Problems solved.

  • gregg

    While all this is true I do have a question. If all the secrets of female nature are widely known, we may remove all incentives to get married/built family from young guys. What we could offer them instead? Spinning plates? What the fuck? Hypergamy does not care (about you, your dreams, your soul) means that your wife/girlfriend does not care (about YOU). While this is ultimately truth, such a message may be very hard to swallow for young men.

    What will happen to civilization if young men become disincentivised to build family? What is the point of marriage and family for a young guy – if he knows that he may be robbed of all this in a moment? This is a play he can not ultimately win. It all depends on hypergamy. And hypergamy does not care. Will any sane man take a bullet for his girlfriend knowing this?

    There is a time for big truths in man´s life. There may be no turning back after them. Those things could easily kill a spirit of a young guy.

  • xsplat

    Gregg, that depends in large part on what socio-sexual orientation the young man has. If he has a low socio-sexual score, meaning he values sex within commitment and the stability of relationships more so than does the average woman, then you’re right. Nothing but disillusionment awaits him, as there is no substitute set-up for him.

    If he has a high socio-sexual score, high libido, and high openness to experience, he can thrive in this environment.

    Marriage used to be predicated upon a social set-up to enforce a social set-up. Men can still train their women without social help. We can still have them fall deeply in love and teach them to be devoted love slaves. That all still works. But you don’t a prize in every crackerjack box. You have to really work your own value and your abilities and your location to be able to earn that prize. Individually. Based on effort, merit, and a bit of luck.

    I agree that the low socio-sexual score, K reproductive strategy men have a lot of difficult adapting to do to learn to live a gypsy lifestyle. It goes against everything they love; tradition, stability, security, high investment into a few children.

    What percentage of men have those predispositions? Those fellas often talk as if they are the “beta” majority, and everyone else are just stupid thugs that need to go up against the wall, as if everyone else is just part of the problem that is in the way of the final solution.

  • Sword

    This gives a lot of opportunity to look at things, from the Edward got flaked, to Bella being way beyond her value.

    Really, that is the bottom line, any guy can get abandoned, even someone as ‘high’ value as Edward. And a totally bland girl like bella thinks she is equivalent to the whole world.

  • gregg

    “What percentage of men have those predispositions? Those fellas often talk as if they are the “beta” majority, and everyone else are just stupid thugs that need to go up against the wall, as if everyone else is just part of the problem that is in the way of the final solution.”

    Xsplat, I definitely agree with you in your message about freedom and individuality, I am made that way myself. But according to my experience, such men are exception not the rule. And frankly, even in my hostile enviroment of law/business, good portion of sharp businessmen are incredible BETA when it comes to women. They do not know a shit about them. We are talking about well educated, succesful and often good looking men and they still HAVE this beta mentality even in their thirties. They only lose it when they are subjected through hellish divorce and assraped by their wives. And many times they do not cope well with this “truth” even as mature men. They just..drop out.

    Should they know this truth as young guys/before marriage..would they marry/start a family? Men are romantic creatures by default in order to better slave and provide for women, but… Anyway, we will see.

  • GeishaKate

    @Gregg: “What will happen to civilization if young men become disincentivised to build family?”

    This is really the most important question that could possibly be raised. The problem, in my own mind, is that almost no one is willing to sacrifice anything for the greater good, whether that be money, time, or their own personal happiness.

    If we want to live in a world where everyone is “equal,” then we’d better expect our standard of living to decline. WE ARE NOT EQUAL. Women are not equal to men. Some women are nicer, prettier, funnier than others. Some men are smarter, stronger, wealthier than others.

    Society functions best with small numbers at the top, small numbers at the bottom, and a larger number in the middle. The trouble is, no one wants to be at the bottom. Yet, not everyone can be at the top. If more people accepted their station as a cog in a great machine, we would once again have a great machine. United we stand, divided we fall.

    When men no longer have an incentive to build families, they will cease to exist in any nuclear way. What can be done? Well, women have to come to the harsh realization that voting, for instance, is less important than having a man committed to your family. Men will have build their skills to keep women “in line.” We should be looking at successful models of society and figuring out how to emulate them.

    “Should they know this truth as young guys/before marriage..would they marry/start a family?”
    Wow, this is a tough question. I guess I see it as a “need to know” basis. Tell people what they need to know and not any more. For one reason, many of us know others don’t listen/aren’t ready to take on this new perspective. Two, I believe people tend to be happier in ignorance. Enlightenment is not for everybody.

    We already have all the information covered for us by previous institutions. Each generation/group tries to reinvent the wheel when its already been covered. We just aren’t paying attention. The old rules are there for a reason: they hold society together and keep people from heartbreaking conclusions. Don’t kill, don’t lie, don’t cheat. Couldn’t most of our problems be eliminated if people followed those very basic rules?

  • Coy

    @GK
    Here’s the problem …. No one wants to sacrifice for the greater good because
    a) Not everyone is sacrificing for the greater good and hence the “takers” take a disproportionate amount of resources while the “givers” may not get their share. resources = money+women+lifestyle + …
    b)The greater good proactively disenfranchises the “givers”.
    So why should one accept their position?
    that’s the whole bone of contention if someone did accept their position your(women’s) hypergamy will “optimize” him…. Nice advise(shit test?) though.
    In my experience not everyone is built for the red pill.Its like that stuff just doesn’t register in their reality. People would call you crazy if you tell them that or jaded or bitter or misogynist.I personally never give red pill advise.

  • GeishaKate

    @Coy: Hang on, slightly off topic epiphany incoming! If we say, well I’m not going to give because so and so isn’t giving and so my gift won’t make any difference or I won’t get anything back, then no one would ever do anything for anyone. Its this kind of thinking that prevents everyone from giving their all all the time.

    I think I’ve made this analogy before of two children exchanging toys, neither one willing to give the other the toy until they can practically feel the toy they want in their other hand. Somebody has to let go first. Giving is the gift. We are lucky to give, especially when our gifts are graciously received. To say that others are winning or getting more than we are when they steal from us is not true. The drowning man/woman who drowns his/her wife/husband in order to survive might be alive, but hasn’t “won.”

    I’m not equating “the greater good” with the group that appears to currently be in charge of our society. They should accept their position because it is their rightful place. Every man (with some exceptions) should get to be the general of his family unit. Probably the best thing for people to be informed about is seeing themselves realistically: knowing their true strengths and weakness, having an accurate image of their abilities and limits. Not all men will marry a supermodel, not all women will marry a millionaire. Reasonable expectations, I guess is what I’m saying.

  • Coy

    @GK
    You ideals are so utopian ….its cute.
    There is always a balance between collectivist and individualist responsibilities.Too collectivist and you “lose”.Too individualist and every one loses.Always err on the side of individualist .Giving is only appreciated when one himself is in abundance.

  • Augen

    Rollo,
    You are so on and so exquisitely right 99% of the time this has become my favorite blog.
    But…on this article I need to raise a finger of protest and say if only here you are cutting the knife just a little too far.

    It isn’t the correctness or accuracy of what you put up, but a void created in your argument because it’s missing one important real world anchor: awareness.

    Yes, there are wolves and caribou, yes there is morality and free will, yes the bigger problem for men to correct among our brothers are pollyanna ideas about romantic love borne of a heavy media soaked indoctrination in relationship porn.

    BUT, allowing all of that there is this difference: from the earliest age men are taught to be aware of their nature-endowed weaknesses, to be above “thinking with your dick” and to grow beyond it.

    More too: we are routinely held in contempt when we do succumb to “thinking with the dick”.

    We do this whenever we, through choice and behavior, elevate sexual imperative above all other moral considerations.

    Putting up with shit from a hot girlfriend so as not to be cut off from sex … thinking with your dick

    Neglect your work or friends or obligations to self or others harm … thinking with your dick

    Leaving your devoted girlfriend with whom you have much in common for the hot chick opportunity … thinking with your dick

    Cheating with a married woman at a party who throws herself at you … thinking with your dick

    Leaving the devoted mother of your children for a hot chick 12 years younger … thinking with your dick

    We men have our equivalent of hypergamy, but we as a group, as individuals and as a culture are aware of this weakness and we ALL guard against it with personal inhibition and second guessing and with social sanction.

    Where you go too far with this article is in failing to acknowledge that there is no equivalent inhibition or sanction for female hypergamy.

    Men are expected to be moral creatures. Women are free to let their ids run rampant.

    This causes men to cry foul and experience contempt. Their protests are well founded.

  • xsplat

    We men have our equivalent of hypergamy, but we as a group, as individuals and as a culture are aware of this weakness and we ALL guard against it with personal inhibition and second guessing and with social sanction.

    I beg your pardon? Are you speaking for my cock?

    You’re a lousy ventriloquist then.

  • Pffft

    @Kate
    ““Should they know this truth as young guys/before marriage..would they marry/start a family?”
    Wow, this is a tough question. I guess I see it as a “need to know” basis. Tell people what they need to know and not any more. For one reason, many of us know others don’t listen/aren’t ready to take on this new perspective. Two, I believe people tend to be happier in ignorance. Enlightenment is not for everybody. ”

    I agree. In a very general way, modern post-enlightenment culture has a misplaced faith in truth and rationality as the best basis for social relations.

    I think the crisis in sexual relationships is just a part of the future development of a more sophisticated recognition that the spheres ( or magisteria, to use Gould’s concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-overlapping_magisteria ) of rationality and social life are fairly non-overlapping. Too much rationality is what has got us to where we are, and from here, if we follow the current imperatives, we will end up worse off than Hobbes ever thought, in the game theoretic annihilation of mutually assured destruction.

    Weren’t things in many ways better in the 16th century?

    When my love swears that she is made of truth
    I do believe her, though I know she lies,
    That she might think me some untutor’d youth,
    Unlearned in the world’s false subtleties.
    Thus vainly thinking that she thinks me young,
    Although she knows my days are past the best,
    Simply I credit her false speaking tongue:
    On both sides thus is simple truth suppress’d.
    But wherefore says she not she is unjust?
    And wherefore say not I that I am old?
    O, love’s best habit is in seeming trust,
    And age in love loves not to have years told:
    Therefore I lie with her and she with me,
    And in our faults by lies we flatter’d be.

    Shakespeare Sonnet 138

  • nek

    I’ve noticed that the women who scream the loudest about “fairness” and playing nice usually are the least fair and nice. Or at least they tend to forget about the times that they are not fair nor nice. It’s as if when they get screwed over it’s the ultimate indignation, yet when they do the same thing it’s justified. The whole purpose of cheating/being dishonest in a romantic relationship is the same as in any relationship, to gain an advantage in getting what you want. The thing about cheating/not playing fair is that it’s only an advantagel when others are not doing it. If everyone cheats and gets a perfect score, it doesn’t mean everyone gets into Harvard, it means there will be new admission criteria. So when women talk about being fair and all I just see it as them trying to keep hold of there advantage of being the only ones to be cheating (via convincing men to keep playing by rules of “fairness”).

    And what do I mean by cheating? Not just the act of screwing someone else, but rather the dishonesty that they carry to enter a relationship. I read a good comment by someone which said basically the following: ” you know how they say a guy will say anything to get laid, a woman will say anything to get a commitment”. This applies to what I’m defining as cheating, a general yet significant dishonesty. Women will go into a relationship knowing they’re not really committed (although self-delusion does occur) yet play their cards right in order to get the commitment from a man.

    Yes I know chicks lie, I know hypergamy doesn’t care, but social order cares about hypergamy (you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you). Letting hypergamy run rampant has consequences on the relationship level that unchecked kleptocracy has on the political level. People lose faith in the current system, and it collapses. This essentially kills the gravy train for these people benefiting by cheating the system. So while from a ‘gaming’ standpoint understanding the facets of hypergamy is beneficial, the lack of effort to curb it is of the same danger that MLK spoke about with regard to the indifference of good men.

    And Kate, I like the fact that you’re making a conscious effort to understand the male perspective, but in your example of drowning the spouse, the surviving spouse did “win”, especially if female. Men carry guilt far worse than women from my experience. See Rollo’s story about his brother-in-law (I believe?) whose wife left him and he killed himself shortly after. Most importantly in the story is how the wife carried on in life without a flinch. She drowned him, not in water, but in sorrow.

    P.S. sorry if this sounds like rambling, tired as shit.

  • nek

    Sorry I need to clarify one point in the first paragraph. I completely understand that men cheat too (guilty), but there isn’t assumption of “fair and innocent” for men that there is for women. Nor are we pushing that idea.

  • Coy

    “Where you go too far with this article is in failing to acknowledge that there is no equivalent inhibition or sanction for female hypergamy.”

    Hypergamy is the societal normative.it is NORMAL and ACCEPTED.Thats the whole point of living in a fem centric society.

  • b-166-er

    @GK
    You ideals are so utopian ….its cute.
    There is always a balance between collectivist and individualist responsibilities.Too collectivist and you “lose”.Too individualist and every one loses.Always err on the side of individualist .

    ***Giving is only appreciated when one himself is in abundance.****
    ———————————————————————————————–

    maybe for you it is; buts thats because you have no one worthy of sharing with.

    I would rather share my last slice of bread with another person than be alone and eat it by myself.

  • Augen

    @xsplat,
    “I beg your pardon? Are you speaking for my cock?

    You’re a lousy ventriloquist then.”

    Xsplat, I am sorry to hear about how you did on your second grade reading comprehension exam, perhaps the teacher didn’t explain clearly enough that you have to pencil in the little donuts so that the scanner can read your answers, but I’ll explain this again so that your nine IQ points aren’t overloaded.

    1) Your dick wants to do 9s and 10s. So much so we could write a mirror-article to Rollo’s “hypergamy doesn’t care” article that lists all manner of female relationship equity points and repeats the mantra, “the dick doesn’t care”

    2) Society, recognizing that your dick doesn’t care, imposes all manner of social sanction so that you, as a male, are encouraged to think with your head and not your dick.

    Point being: there is expectation that men rise above their foibles (dicks wants a 9 or 10), there is no equivalent expectation that women overcome theirs (hypergamy doesn’t care, and Cosmo, Oprah, Foxnews are all in agreement, “nothing to see here”).

  • Doc

    As I used to tell students when I taught them Quantum Mechanics: “There are two ways to do this. I can explain what’s going on, and I will, and you can try to wrap your mind around it, since Quantum Mechanics is very non-intuitive. Or you can simply take it on faith that this is the way the universe works, and use the tools I give you to solve the problems and move forward.”

    To a certain extent I see this dust up about Stewart falling into this category. You can go into detail as to the “why’s” and such – and you do a great job. Or you can just take it from empirical evidence that this is how it is, and keep it in the back of your mind, that if you as a man, and aren’t always assuming that she’s looking for the to trade-up you’re a fool… Now there is a caveat on that – and it has to do with how hard she’s working to hold your attention. That is the way to avoid this.

    If the cuckold in this tale, had been taking advantage of the better looking women who were after him, and kept Stewart scrambling to beat off all potential threats to her being the “woman of the hour” she wouldn’t have had time to be looking. That has two benefits – it keeps her happy (yes, this is what women NEED to be HAPPY) and it makes sure that you have plenty of other options, so if she isn’t keeping up, then she’s left behind, and you have a woman who WILL do everything to keep you happy. (Rinse, and repeat…)

    I know all of the beta’s will be saying how horrible that is, and so forth, but it is a simple truth. If you want your woman to be happy, you MUST be looking at other women, and make her WORK to keep you. She will not feel content unless she knows that you could and would walk if she weren’t BETTER than those other women. This is why I tell guys that the best stable relationships are those with a triangle – two women, and one man so the women are always vying for your attention against the other. This is why it always behooves you to let women know at the out-set that: “I am a dog, and if I see better tail I’ll go for it. I can’t help it.” Do it humorously, but she will remember, every-time she sees you being nice to the waitress, or have to work late, she’ll remember, and make sure that she surprises you. So you’ll walk in the door and she’ll be wearing something slinky and sexy – or she’ll come to visit you in your office in a trench-coat, and garters and nothing else.

    No woman is ever HAPPY, unless she is fighting to keep “HER MAN”… Remember that, and embrace it if you ever get “one-itis”…

  • ZLX1

    If you want to know what society or a culture looks like when men are heavily disinterested in or structurally pushed away from forming traditional nuclear families then you should examine the family culture of inner city African American communities as it is today.

    The men in that socioeconomic group have been usurped by Uncle Sam. Examine the outcome.

    This will also provide an interesting insight into what a society looks like that is heavily matriarchal and which follows the tingle/hypergamy without consequence. The social/family structure becomes stuck in a destructive loop. A big factor in why that can happen is the safety nets put in place by Uncle.

    I believe Dalrock had some much older posts examining trends of single motherhood, etc. in this community versus the general census populations, etc. The contention being that whatever is occurring in the minority communities is a canary in the coal mine for what will be happening in the majority culture over the next couple decades.

    It would be interesting to see what would happen if all government provided safety nets for women’s “bad” behavior, to include dismantling the whole child support apparatus, were removed and women had to face the choice of behave or go without food or provision. Or more to the point, face the consequences of making irresponsible choices.

    Would women’s behavior modify itself and lean more towards forming what we would term a traditional family structure? Such as, every woman seeks to get and keep a dependable beta provider and things get more “old fashioned”? Would the women attempt to be more chaste and attempt to offer to men what men value?

    Or, would it be a mad scramble of harem formation? Perhaps a lot of on the surface beta family formation with a sharp increase in cuckolding since the women would no longer be free to publicly chase every ‘alpha’ for sperm donation without sanction. Perhaps, the community of women in such a situation would reintroduce the idea of public shaming for disruptive behavior. It seems to me that women are the most likely to “call out a slut.” Men like sluts on the whole, they just don’t want to marry one.

    Dunno.

  • GeishaKate

    @Pfft: Nice sonnet! I’d never read that one. Both Shakespeare and Wilde seem to advocate necessary lies to preserve relationships. Chaucer too, perhaps.

  • GeishaKate

    @nek: “And Kate, I like the fact that you’re making a conscious effort to understand the male perspective, but in your example of drowning the spouse, the surviving spouse did “win”, especially if female. Men carry guilt far worse than women from my experience. See Rollo’s story about his brother-in-law (I believe?) whose wife left him and he killed himself shortly after. Most importantly in the story is how the wife carried on in life without a flinch. She drowned him, not in water, but in sorrow.”

    I respectfully disagree with you about the winning issue, but your statement about guilt intrigues me. Why do you think men carry guilt far worse than women? In particular, in a situation where the woman left.

  • GeishaKate

    @ZLX1: Really interesting questions. I suppose if we want to get at the root of the divorce problem, we need to take the institution of marriage more seriously. For a secular marriage, there is very little involved. If the state were to emulate the practice of premarital counseling that might make a small dent. But, generally people in love- especially for the first time- have no ability to imagine that could change or understand that compatible goals and values will be vital for keeping them together. One simply can’t assume that the other will have aligning beliefs. Guidance from parents is instrumental. Any opportunity we have to share reality with others, we should do it.

  • Tal

    It is absurd that you think a girl with one of the prettiest faces in the world is a “6″.

  • xsplat

    @ZLX1 “If you want to know what society or a culture looks like when men are heavily disinterested…”

    I knew the next thing you were going to say. Something about blacks. Sure enough.

    Those people are not just of another culture, you know. They are of a different race. White people will not behave like blacks given the same causes and conditions. Point to another white culture if you want to show us what whites will become.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    It’s more absurd that you’d think a woman’s HB rating would begin (or end) with her face.

  • xsplat

    Thanks for the clarification Augen. I thought you were implying that all men internalized that social expectation. Good to see that’s not what you were saying at all.

    I for one have no interest in what society expects me to do with my dick.

  • S

    Rollo, I’d like you to do a blog entry on what a girl/woman’s “HB rating” (whatever that means) DOES consist of.

    Stay classy.

    [HB10

    I give and I give,..]

  • xsplat

    “I would rather share my last slice of bread with another person than be alone and eat it by myself.”

    And I’d rather be the landowner you two serfs are working for.

  • thwack

    xsplat
    August 10th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
    “I would rather share my last slice of bread with another person than be alone and eat it by myself.”

    And I’d rather be the landowner you two serfs are working for.
    ————————————————–

    The fear of “feeling alone” is well documented as the greatest fear of man. It is the utility of solitary confinement for prison inmates who break the rules?

    Indeed, the greatest obstacle for a manned mission to Mars may not be propulsion or technology… but “training” a person not to freak out about being so far away from the Earth. Depression may set in, suicidal thoughts, crew may attack each other…

    I suspect there are some MEN who can handle it; but it would take religious, type disciple to stay focused without getting tunnel vision. We all take it for granted when we wake up, walk OUTSIDE, smell the air, feel the bright sunlight on our skin. Being alone for long periods of time could be confusing without another living thing to give you feedback about your behavior.

    Years ago, messing with melatonin, I took a nap in the afternoon. I had a dream in which I woke up from a nap and realized I was in a dream. It was disturbing because I felt like I couldn’t wake up “for real”. I jumped off the sofa when I did wake up. I was all sweaty and my heart was racing.

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  • Tertullian

    I can’t believe we’ve come this far without a single post from “KIng A (Matthew King).”

    You’d think this would be the perfect topic for a rabid bible-thumper trying to steer misguided PUA’s onto the right path.

    We lucked out.

  • Georgia Boy

    All this is great, but I still believe the beard theory. He’s gay, and the only reason we’re finding out about this now, is that they’ve decided that it’s no longer necessary for her to be the beard to help the series succeed, and they’re moving on. I know, it’s not the explanation that’s fun for the Manosphere to talk about. But a huge proportion of the younger male leads are closeted gays. Just ask a papparazzo. They’re all gay.

  • GeishaKate

    @ Georgia Boy: If that were true, why not have waited till the last movie came out. Or do you suppose the media attention would bring more people to the last movie?

    ps: Do you love cookies?

  • b-166-er

    maybe the “gay mafia” have not given him permission to do so?

  • Kyle Bradford (@ChopperPapa)

    “Why the fuck would Stewart ‘cheat’ on a guy who’s adored and desired by millions of women?” —

    Because she can , but look who she cheated with?!?! A married older dude….all she has done is stroke his ego, for a while. That will eventually grow tiring, the age gap will catch up with them.

    Her cheating has little to do with Vampire boy, and the fact that he’s a star and loved my millions of women is inconsequential. Actually, his fame adds to her reputation…”she would cheat on THAT?!?!?”

    In all reality, this is likely a PR ploy because frankly she’s a mediocre actress and will never grace another silver screen in as popular of a series as Twilight.

    On a side note, i’ve muddled around your site and those of some regular commenters. Frankly, it makes me painfully aware of my naivety. I offer you kudos on your writing style while wholly disagreeing with your premise.

    What I find most interesting is that it seems you have a fourteen year old daughter, but your opinion, and those of your readers, of women in general is little more than chattel to be controlled and subjugated. How do you resolve that tension, if there is any? Better question, would you set your daughter up with any of your commenters on your blog???? And lastly, how are you preparing your her for the real world when the alpha wolves you seem to glorify will be zeroing in directly on her?

  • koevoet

    Rollo, was there any significance to the Luftwaffe fellows and the chick in the picture?

  • Rollo Tomassi

    it’s not the Luftwaffe but rather their positions and environment that’s significant

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  • Cheating?

    How can you “cheat on” someone you are not even engaged to, what to speak of married to? She didn’t cheat, the married man did.

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