The Horse’s Mouth

Women would rather be objectified than idealized.

One of the best litmus tests for how unplugged a guy truly is is how he reacts to the words of his idealized woman. I briefly covered this idea in the Self-Righteous AFC:

You see, when an AFC clings to the mental schemas that make up an AFC mindset it requires a constant need for affirmation and reinforcement, particularly in light of their glaring lack of verifiable success with women while clinging to, and behaving in accordance with the mindset. AFCs are crabs in a barrel – once one get to the top to climb out another drags him back in. The AFC needs other AFCs to affirm his blatantly obvious lack of success. He needs other AFCs to tell him, “don’t worry just be yourself” or “she’s just not a quality woman because she can’t see how great a guy you are.”

So when an AFC finally does get a second date and then finally does get laid it becomes the ultimate validation for his mindset. “See, you just have to be a nice guy and the right ONE really does come along.” This is when the self-righteous phase begins and he can begin telling his Game / PUA friends that he’s “getting some” now without all the Positive Masculinity claptrap. In actuality he rationalizes away all of the conditions that lead up to him getting the girlfriend and the fundamental flaw that he’s settling for a woman “who’d fuck him”, but this doesn’t stop him from claiming a moral highground. His long wait is over and he’s finally hit paydirt.

This need for validation of a Beta Game mindset is very strong for guys – particularly when you consider a lifetime of being steeped fem-centrism’s conditioning. When you grow up in girl-world you want to believe the idealizations of women are actually attainable. This is what makes the ‘red pill’ so hard to swallow; men truly want the fantasy, the romanticism and love, in the context girl-world presents it to them for so long, to really exist for them. This is what makes believing women’s individualized words, rather than their globalized behaviors, so seductive for men – even for Men who’ve become self-aware in the feminine Matrix.

Straight from the Horse’s Mouth

When a woman (or a man impersonating a woman) posts some self-description or personalized experience about how they conform more to this idealization than to the “silly caricatures of bitter misogynists” online, this triggers an internal conflict for men. Men want to believe that the exception to the rule could exist for them since it agrees with his initial social conditioning, but the learned, unplugged, conditioning he’s applying to see the forest for the trees, and factoring in women’s generalized, observable behaviors as a better method for determining intent, fights against this. Becoming Game-aware teaches Men that the medium is the message, but to varying degrees Men still want to believe that women are completely self-honest, rational agents, and cognizant of their internal motivations. Eventually applied behaviorism puts the truth to this deception, but it’s very hard to let go of that want for an easier answer.

In our ‘plugged in’ years, men rely on the same deductive pragmatism with women that we use to solve most other problems. Our problem solving natures predispose us to objectifying the elements of a problem to arrive at a solution. Even our neural wiring is designed to achieve this end, so it’s literally a ‘no-brainer’ to want reliable, rational data on which to base our plan to solve a problem – in this case getting laid and receiving intimate approval from a woman. Thus our next question is “what do women want?”

What Women Want

I can remember asking this very question uncounted times in my plugged-in teenage years. Hindsight being what it is, I can only laugh now when I read teenage guys still asking the same thing 4 generations later. It seems so intuitive and considerate of a woman’s sensibilities; guys think it presents the countenance that a man cares enough to create himself in her idealized image. Women and girls naturally love to answer this question because it gives them a default authority, while at the same time feeds their attention needs. It’s such a popular topic that even rom-com movies are based on the question and the zany misunderstandings that result from men’s ridiculous attempts to understand the oh-so unknowable, mysterious natures of women’s true desires. Silly, silly men.

The truth is much simpler. Women either lack the awareness and self-honesty to acknowledge what it is about men that women in general (not just individualized to themselves) want, or they deliberately misdirect and evade men’s efforts to make deductive sense of their motivations because, in truth, they want a guy who ‘gets it’ on his own without having to be told. In either case, whether due to ignorance or duplicity, the secret of the ugly, cruel truth of female hypergamy is to be protected and obfuscated as women’s first priority. So important is keeping this truth from men that the feminine imperative must socialize it into women’s collective psyches. One of the great threats that Game theory represents to feminine primacy is revealing the truth, and the atrocities that result from feminine hypergamy. What do women want? Maximized hypergamy with a man blissfully unaware of hypergamy. The perfect union of emotional investment, parental investment and provisional investment with her hypergamous nature.

However, men still want to believe that women earnestly want to communicate their intimate desires in an effort to make better men. We believe that women, the emotional, erratic, dramatic, mysterious and romantic creatures of story are also consistent, well-grounded pragmatists that rival men themselves and are only waiting for the man unique enough to listen to her. And the more her story agrees with our mental construct of what women should want, the more we want to believe she exists. If she’s convinced of the story this is all the validation most men ever need – he got it from the source, a woman who confirmed the fantasy.


20 responses to “The Horse’s Mouth

  • Nummm

    I’m wondering what you believe the time frame will be for ideas such as yours to become more widespread in the manosphere/game/PUA community.

    It was years before game was accepted, and even then, it was only a small, small subset of men, most of which still bitterly cling to the idea of the “good girl”. I can’t see what you’ve written here ever being taken to heart by more than a very tiny sliver of alpha men, most alphas will still marry too early and buy into the fantasy.

  • unbowed

    The difficulty for me has always been that I know what’s written about women’s hypergamy is true, but I strongly wish it wasn’t. Slowly my heart is coming around to being ruled by my head. But I’m still in the fake it till you make it stage.
    The move of a natural beta to an alpha is progressive and not immediate.

  • Loller

    Asking a woman what she wants in order to get into her pants is like a cat asking the mouse how it would like to be hunted.
    Sounds clever, but I’ve never heard of a cat that actually did it. And yet, cats are the best mouse hunters.

    I’ve discovered the manosphere about 7 months ago and have been reading it every day ever since. I remember I was shocked at first to discover this congregation of people discussing my most personal issues and producing such mind-boggling ideas.

    The most disappointing realization I now face is that I’ll never get to live the fantasy. I’ll never have that honest, innocent construct that reality pictured for me for my entire life.
    As awful as it may sound to people, I never had true love, not even mediocre love (i’m 28) so I am kinda ok with the idea of abandoning it altogether.

    Still, I am forever indebted for men like Rollo and the rest of the manosphere for exposing the truth.

  • Juhana

    How to sum up your essay here, Rollo?

    Here’s a stab at it: Women want to slut it up to their heart’s desire without any consequences whatsoever.

    So, then, they’re exactly the same as us men, ultimately?

    Or am I missing something?

  • Johnycomelately

    “Women either lack the awareness and self-honesty…..or they deliberately misdirect and evade.”

    Interesting question, it seems like women’s first world view lens is a primal self serving (solipsistic?) filter and the second logic filter rationalises the first.

    I usually put it down to lack of awareness but sometimes I catch a glint in their eyes that makes me wonder.

  • flyfreshandyoung

    The mountain of lies, deceit, and misdirection, whether intentionally or uninentionally, from women about what they want in men and how men should go about getting them, could power the Earth for decades if somehow converted to an energy source.

    I don’t care how introspective or aware a woman is, their advice will never quite fit the bill. A woman giving advice to a man puts herself in the place of the girl, without experiencing the current relationship dynamic and her emotions, and thus projects what she would want her Prince Charming to do. Aka flowers, heart felt talks, gift giving, long walks on the beach, candlelit dinners, etc etc…

    In this same vein, I don’t know if you’ve been to HUS today, but I’m pretty sure after the declaration, SW might as well come out, drop the illusion, and just say her blog is for women, with men free to put in advice that may or not be considered.

  • Mike C

    Excellent post. I’ve got several thoughts marinating as a result of a discussion elsewhere that this post kind of amplified, and I hope you’ll chime in on my random thoughts.

    The truth is much simpler. Women either lack the awareness and self-honesty to acknowledge what it is about men that women in general (not just individualized to themselves) want, or they deliberately misdirect and evade men’s efforts to make deductive sense of their motivations because, in truth, they want a guy who ‘gets it’ on his own without having to be told. In either case, whether due to ignorance or duplicity, the secret of the ugly, cruel truth of female hypergamy is to be protected and obfuscated as women’s first priority. So important is keeping this truth from men that the feminine imperative must socialize it into women’s collective psyches. One of the great threats that Game theory represents to feminine primacy is revealing the truth, and the atrocities that result from feminine hypergamy. What do women want? Maximized hypergamy with a man blissfully unaware of hypergamy.

    I think there is another level here as well. I recently learned about the concept of transference.

    My sense is with some women there is a self-loathing aspect of their hypergamy, but they can’t quite deal with it head on because of the level of cognitive dissonance it creates. At that point, the loathing part of it gets transferred to the alpha/very attractive man simply exercising the options that hypergamy presents to him. He is the awful, evil man because he understands hypergamy, recoginzes the options it presents, and exercises them. How dare he.

    Maximized hypergamy with a man blissfully unaware of hypergamy. The perfect union of emotional investment, parental investment and provisional investment with her hypergamous nature.

    Seems to me that women finds a man who is very aware of his own sexual market value/attractiveness very threatening.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    So how are things on planet Absolute?

  • YOHAMI

    Where did you find that picture of Amanda Marcotte?

  • Retrenched

    “SW might as well come out, drop the illusion, and just say her blog is for women, with men free to put in advice that may or not be considered”

    Women’s advice to men is almost never meant to help them; it’s almost always meant to benefit whatever women the man happens to interact with. It’s always their well-being the woman has in mind, not that of the man asking for the advice.

    The Susan/Richard story is just the latest example of this. It’s not that Susan didn’t want Richard to succeed; she just wanted him to succeed on the terms she approves. If he can get the girl by doing what Susan wants, great. But she’d rather have him fail with the Susan approved methods – and perhaps have to go through a lengthy dry spell — than succeed by using methods she doesn’t approve.

  • Anonymous

    ^^^^^ +1

  • WOMEN WANT TO BE SEXUALLY OBJECTIFIED

    […] NOT put on a pedestal. Published: December 8, 2011 Leave a Comment Name: Required […]

  • Marellus

    … is there a link to this Susan/Richard story ?

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Well, since Aunt Sue is blacklisting my comments, I’ll post it here; Hooking Up Smart is little more than Susan Walsh’s form of catharsis.

    I feel bad about just singling her out, because in truth, virtually all of feminine centric blogging and all of social media are a godsend for women’s egos and need for someone, anyone to validate their worries and neuroses. They feel better for having anyone listen to their grievances – it’s instant affirmation for their need of attention.

    Really, what else would she be doing?

  • flyfreshandyoung

    Very fucking true, Retrenched.

    “You should do this for her…”

    “She would like it if you do this…”

    Etc.

    @Marellus

    It was a recent post, last week I believe, where this dude wrote in for advice. You can search her site for it. She gave some not-bad but definitely not great advice to the dude.

    I wrote a response that didn’t go over very well with her.

    http://flyfreshandyoung.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/advice-to-richard/

  • itsme

    i’ve yet to meet a female who gives men solid dating advice.

    women like susan walsh are especially insidious because on the surface, a lot of her advice seems to be non-feminist or even pro-pua and sounds like what roissy/roosh/et al would say. but peel back that top layer and you get the sense that there’s an agenda underneath that is not quite optimal for men.

    the bottom line is, don’t take dating advice from anyone with a vagina. there simply is no reason to.

  • A. Context « the professor

    […] & idealization – http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/12/07/the-horses-mouth/ Rate this:Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. [past] context […]

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 6,007 other followers

%d bloggers like this: