Soldiers

marines

It never fails. Whenever I think I have a good post developing in my drafts folder, along comes a reader’s comment that abruptly halts that process and demands my full attention. Rational Reader, Eric had one such comment today:

Rollo,

Military men ought to be a targeted audience for your red-pill teachings.

As an Army veteran, I can attest that being socialized as a soldier is to learn positive masculinity in terms of a man among men. While not immune from political correctness, there is a stand-off distance from civilian society that preserves within the military perhaps our last best repository of traditional masculine values and culture.

Before I joined the Army, the military seemed alien and threatening. What I found, instead, is the nature of soldiering just made sense to me on a basic level as a man that I had not experienced before the Army. Soldiering opened my eyes to the intrinsic higher value of manhood. I have not found the same masculine fit since returning to civilian society. (Granted, I didn’t become a cop.)

However, the Army does not cure Beta. The military – as you imply – does not teach soldiers how to handle women and deal with feminism. When soldiers apply the 7 Army values (loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, personal courage) to women, they simply don’t receive the same positive feedback they get from applying the Army values on the job among soldiers. If anything, their heightened engagement with masculinity in male terms obscures their understanding of women. Editorially, I believe the disjunction between the masculine culture of the military and the feminized culture of civilian society is an unacknowledged reason why many seemingly capable veterans are tripped up in their transition from military life to the civilian world.

The masculine values that soldiers learn are invaluable, and our society would be made healthier and stronger if veterans could spread those values upon their return to civilian society. However, in their current condition, military-sourced masculine values are fragile in the context of feminized civilian society.

I believe the solution is adding formative red-pill teachings to the traditional masculine lessons received by impressionable young soldiers. Doing so will empower and protect the soldiers in their immediate personal lives, especially important for the soldiers who are anxiously distant (Dear John, Jody) from their love objects. And, by the time they are mature veterans returning to civilian society, their traditional masculine values hybridized with red-pill awareness should be robust enough to thrive in feminized civilian society. From their success, the combination of red pill and traditional masculine values can spread.

I attempted to address this in Casualties.

For whatever reason I seem to be held in high respect with military guys. It’s kind of strange thinking about this post-red pill, but a majority of my male friends have been soldiers and marines, and the common theme with every one of them has been their ‘get it done’ attitude and the conflicts it has with a beta relationship they all had with women.

I’ve got a guy in another dept. who was a former Marine who served 3 tours in Iraq and is an amazingly organized and responsible guy. Alpha as fuck in all respects but one; he too is saddled with an overweight fianceé (soon to be his 2nd wife I might add) who barks at him via cell phone while he takes his smoke breaks. I hear them bickering occasionally and all the guy does is attempt to appease her – this former Marine, who had live ammunition fired at him, is crushed mentally and emotionally by a woman who should never have a position to question him. Why? because he subscribes to the societal fem-centric default mentality when entreating with women.

At the risk of encouraging some ecumenical debate in the comment thread, the great failing of most military guys is the expectation of relational equity with regards to their commitment to the 7 Army values. In a military sense, in a sportsmanship sense, in a business sense men believe that the personal investments of sacrifice, loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, personal courage, etc. will be appreciated, considered and rewarded with respect, value and/or status. Whether or not this is the actual case on an individual basis, the expectation from amongst a man’s peers is one of an appreciable equity he can build upon and have his eminence increase upon.

The rude awakening for most soliders is that Hypergamy doesn’t care about relational equity. All of the social value he should be able to accrue through his steadfast commitment (actual or imagined) to principle isn’t recognized by feminine hypergamy. Hypergamy doesn’t care about his belief in the 7 Army values, it only cares about its own imperative. It’s not that women can’t learn to appreciate these virtues in a man, it’s that her natural state of hypergamy (and solipsism) doesn’t facilitate it.

I have no doubt I’ll get female commenters explaining to me how they in fact do recognize and appreciate men’s commitment to duty, but I’d argue that this appreciation came from learned necessity, not a natural appeal to her hypergamy. When hypergamy is satisfied for a woman, mitigated by her capacity to attract better male prospects, only then is a woman in a position to consider men’s integrity and character.

This is naturally frustrating for a young soldier wondering why his sacrifice and commitment to duty doesn’t make him any more attractive, more arousing, more deserving of his girlfriend or wife’s monogamous commitment. He’s done everything ‘right’ yet there is no advancement, no appreciation, and in fact sometimes outright abandonment of him and his ‘principles’. The reflex of course is to amplify that sacrifice to levels above and beyond what he’s previously committed himself to, or to rationalize disqualifying a woman lacking the capacity to appreciate that sacrifice.

The real tragedy is that young soldiers (and sometimes old) are easy marks for the feminine imperative looking to consolidate on a security derived from those sacrifices without ever appreciating them. I have a friend back in Reno who after 16 years, and 4 children, had his wife leave him after a military marriage. In her unhaaaaapiness she decided to go to back to school (funded by him) to be a dental assistant and promptly divorced him just 3 months prior to his discharge. They share custody now, but she ended up getting with a dental surgeon soon after the divorce. His disappointment and depression didn’t come from her abandoning him and the kids as much as it came from his bewilderment that she’d leave everything he’d built for them as a family, and himself personally. He couldn’t imagine that his investments had been less valuable to her than a life with a more resource rich man.

Parting Shot: Military Suicides exceeded combat deaths this year. While this is sobering, what most media covering the story fail to illuminate is the overwhelmingly disproportionate number of men who take their lives in comparison to women.

Tom says the military’s suicide problem is a complex one. “Most of those committing suicide are young men, 18-24,” he says, who are worried that asking for help will undermine their career.

While some of the deaths can be linked to the stresses of being deployed in a war zone, a third or more of those who killed themselves were never deployed, Tom says. They seem to have been made desperate by financial or personal problems.

Personal problems, yeah, personal problems.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Keanu
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My cousin is a marine, and red-pill as hell (having no knowledge of the manosphere). He’s been back in the states for 4 years now. He’d do well to have a framework for his mindset aka the manosphere

Tilikum
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I have another theory on suicides and its much more physical than emotional, but having a 22YO in the 101’st, I can tell you that the vast majority of his Army buddies that are herbs at worst, beta at best. The quality of soldier is pathetic. Stress cards? Really?

Stingray
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It’s not that women can’t learn to appreciate these virtues in a man, it’s that her natural state of hypergamy (and solipsism) doesn’t facilitate it.

We can’t learn these from a man we don’t respect and we can’t respect a man who holds us higher than himself.

Rollo Tomassi
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well put

Gavnyk
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As a 14 year veteran, I agree with this article. My marriage gave me more problems than my service ever did. And the only reason I ever considered suicide was “personal problems” (read: women).

Erudite Knight
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It is really sad to see brave men like this destoryed at the hands of stupid cunts that dont have a clue to their damage.

taterearl
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taterearl
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One big thing I’ve learned…things such as the 7 army values, the boy scout law, chivalry, code of conduct only apply when it comes to men relating to other men. I can’t tell you how many times when I help a guy with a project…I’ll get some reward with food, beer, tickets to a game, etc. And I would do the same with my male friends. What saves me a ton of grief is expecting a woman to return the favor….that’s beta nice guy thinking 101. Do what you want to do with a woman and don’t expect a reward… Read more »

Ras Al Ghul
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Erudite:

It isn’t that they don’t have a clue. It is that they don’t care.

Rollo:

“The real tragedy is that young soldiers (and sometimes old) are easy marks for the feminine imperative looking to consolidate on a security derived from those sacrifices without ever appreciating them.”

This is true. It is the traditional masculine frame of the soldier that makes them vulnerable. The 7 rules, make them easily exploited by women, I have witnessed first hand the craziness that young women bring to their soldier husbands.

Martel
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The Value I had the biggest problem with while I was in the Army was Selfless Service. I know we’re sometimes called on to throw ourselves on top of a live grenade to save our buddies, but I don’t consider this “selfless” (selfless and selfish are the two most worthless words in the English language; I’ll have a post on that soon). However, like Earl describes, Selfless Service in the civilian world (and even the military sometimes) becomes straight Beta. You’re not only called on to “serve” your wife, you believe it’s obligatory to surrender yourSelf in the process. When… Read more »

Unending Improvement (@UnendImprov)
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It’s somewhat ironic and pathetic that we are killing the people who pledge to defend us.

Yes, I said it. American society is killing these young men.

Unending Improvement
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Also, the virtues taught in the military are unfortunately not virtues. There is nothing virtuous about being a part of a service whose job it is to kill the enemy.

The military may be necessary, but it is not virtuous. There is nothing virtuous about war.

artanis
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Yep, nothing says “Alpha” more than eating shit because someone with more stripes tells you to.

I did six years and got out because I was sick of khakis straight out of OCS jumping down my PO1s ass to make a mark. Guess I wasn’t alpha enough to be a bitch.

Solo
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If hypergamy doesn’t care, is being “alpha” enough?

It seems than all women are good for than is a pump&dump

M3
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M3
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This is one of the most depressing things i’ve ever read.

And yet…

so necessary.

NeotheLeo
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NeotheLeo
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I can’t tell you how many wife’s of soldiers I have seen cheat or divorce them while they are gone… Blame it on Jody if you want, but some point you can’t ignore the women’s lack of character and hypergamy

Ace Haley
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@Solo: The more you learn, the more you realize you’re better off not spending more time with women than it takes to fuck them. If you can’t deal with them without getting attached, it might just be the best thing for you to *not* deal with them at all.

You don’t want to end up as a custodial case for some girl who has no interest in being your 2nd mother. Obviously I mention that since this society is creating more custodial cases day by day. More men who need women like babies need their mothers.

Eric
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It seems the feminine imperative is parasitic on masculine values. Can masculine values co-exist and even be ruggedized by the red pill? Or, when we take the red pill, must they be purged with the blue pill? In my reading so far in the Manosphere, there hasn’t been a definitive answer to that question. Calibrating the cure, my hope is we won’t need to excise them and, instead, we can inoculate with the red pill so masculine values can flourish in a healthy way.

Ace Haley
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This post reminds me of this video I watched a few weeks ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s1EzK6f1AA

Women don’t love military men because of their “manliness” but because they tend to be obedient and servile. They’re easier to control.

Rollo Tomassi
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@Eric, I honestly don’t think of the feminine imperative as a bad thing per se, only used to bad effects. What we’ve lost as men (via feminization) is an understanding of it and the social awareness to cope if not regulate it.

rafaleon
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Military training has a goal of turning an average man into an ultimate protector in a collective group. To achieve this goal, through years and years of conditioning these men gain real understanding of values which not only make them stand out in the crowd of “ordinary men” but they reach a point where they know how bravery feels like, where male bonding is so strong that they put life into each others hands day by day knowing there will be somebody who got their back. That gives you a peace, it teaches you the essence of trust. These are… Read more »

feminizedwesternmale
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You must live your relationships with women as though you would never receive gratitude or reciprocation. Be kind and generous, and all those things that are good, for their own reasons and because it is right; otherwise you will be punished with disappointment… eventually. You must learn to be entirely independent of women, and expect nothing. Everything given then will become a pleasant surprise (as taterearl said), and you will still live a life of virtue… with plenty of hot intercourse too.

Eric
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artanis, Soldiers certainly get to experience good and bad leadership up close and personal. I was lucky enough to work (mostly) for decent officers and sergeants who were professionals, carried their load, and took care of their soldiers. In my 1st duty station, we had a 2LT in his 1st duty station. At the time, I wasn’t sympathetic, but looking back, I can see he had a suck job as the lowest ranking officer in the unit. In addition to his primary duties, the extra duties for officers ended up on his desk. At least, as an officer, he could… Read more »

YaReallyJody
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You can’t learn how to handle women without interacting with women. That’s why if you take a Keyboard Jockey pro who’s read and studied everything under the sky about pickup and you put him in a bar he will shit his pants and get drunk in a corner by himself and go home alone. You need to build the reference experiences that drill into your mind “do this or that will happen again”. Even if you understand all the logic, without experience you will convince yourself that that’s “only those bar slut girls, the girl *I* choose would never be… Read more »

Aleph
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Can somebody please remind me what, exactly, is “alpha” about being in the military, specifically a non-officer? Is it the taking potshots at third worlders from armored vehicles 100 years ahead of any technology their adversaries have? Is it the mere fact that you’re murdering others? From what I see, the military is a strict subordination hierarchy which forces you to surrender your mind, body, and soul to become a part of this collective murder cult. Other men rule your destiny. How is this supposed to be a training ground for “alpha” men? It’s no surprise that the military doesn’t… Read more »

kleyau
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kleyau
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EO (Equal Opportunity) is why so military men suck with woman. They keep trying to tell us that women are just as valuable to the military as men, and those that speak out from this line get their careers shafted.

Phinn
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Phinn
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“Personal problems” = finding out that your wife back home has been fucking her semi-employed high school ex-boyfriend.

YB
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Erudite Knight – “It is really sad to see brave men like this destoryed at the hands of stupid cunts that dont have a clue to their damage.” Hypergamy doesn’t care that you are a brave man, who worked with a team of other brave men, to protect her twat. She just wants her twat filled with thug seed: never mind the guys who stop her from being gang-raped and killed by invaders. The military needs to drill into their men that most civilians are clueless, pathetic excuses for human beings (I include myself in that list). Then, they’d have… Read more »

Eric
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Aleph, Soldiers’ jobs are a little more complex than that. Carrying out the post-9/11 multi-faceted counter-terror/counterinsurgency doctrine is very complex. The Army’s paternalistic heirarchy provides a working structure for team. As a team, soldiers are each responsible for their role in the mission. The soldiers in the various roles depend on each other. As one of my bosses – I forget whether he was an officer or NCO – explained to me, leadership is practiced up and sideways, not only down. Every soldier is by definition simultaneously a follower and a leader. Both aspects are active. A soldier begins his… Read more »

Jeremy
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Being a soldier is actually Uber-Beta, not alpha. Most men become soldiers because they’ve made bad choices and they need a career path. However, the volunteer soldiers that LOVE the military are dyed-in-the-wool betas. They value self-sacrifice to the corps/army/navy etc… as gold. These men value being a fit, functioning, strong part of a collective whole of service to the country higher than anything else in life. God bless them in their beliefs, because if they were not there, we’d have more than selective-service in the U.S. we’d have mandatory service like many other nations do. These men have not… Read more »

Martel
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@ Eric/Alpeh: I didn’t find my experience in the Army quite as rewarding as I expected, but I did find myself accomplishing things I never thought I could have pulled off. Those experiences don’t necessarily make you an Alpha, but they can if put into the proper context. I’ve made it through some serious shit before, and because I did that, I know I can get shot down a few times by dumb bitches and still be okay. The military has become way too femininzed, and I don’t think it’s as rewarding as it could be, but it’s the best… Read more »

Mebus
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@Martel “The military has become way too femininzed”

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/articles/20120518.aspx

They even are putting women on Ohio class ballistic missile submarines. Armed with 24 trident missiles, 5 warheads a pop. Recipe for disaster if you ask me.

“The Ohio class SSBNs also have hatches large enough to easily get in the equipment needed to build the separate quarters.”

You have got to be kidding me…separate quarters…

Eric
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Rollo: “@Eric, I honestly don’t think of the feminine imperative as a bad thing per se, only used to bad effects. What we’ve lost as men (via feminization) is an understanding of it and the social awareness to cope if not regulate it.”

That’s the puzzle for a red pill beginner like myself: what can I keep and what needs to change. Based on personal experience and Manosphere consensus, making the call on my romantic ideals is emotionally wrenching but rationally straightforward. Sorting the rest isn’t as simple.

Martel
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@ Eric: The FI in and of itself is neither good nor bad; it just is. It’s a problem because all too often it’s become OUR imperative as men without us realizing it. Rollo and others point out where FI subtly asserts itself so that we can proceed with open eyes. It’s hard to figure out at first, but what you “keep” is what makes YOU really feel alive, not the bullshit you’ve been trained to think you should be, what what you really ARE. It’s different for you than it is for everybody else on the planet. It’s why… Read more »

Robert
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A former Herb writes “can we make an institution dedicated to sacrificing betas to the feminine imperative teach us guys about the Red Pill” What else is the military except an enormous shit-test put to the young and dumb? “Please, go far far away and be shot at by strangers. It maketh my panties runneth over. If you come back.” Who else is Jody except the guy who has no intention of Manning Up for some girl who demonstrates her true nature two months in your deployment? Who warns that a LDR is no relationship at all? This isn’t guys… Read more »

Aleph
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@ Eric Picking ONE instance of American history where the US military MAY have been serving as a so-called protector of the American masses does not mitigate the milennia-old, time-tested tradition of soldiers functioning as cannon fodder for the ruling classes. Soldiers, primarily, are tools for the powerful to suppress others via physical force, whether internally in the case of Mao or Stalin, or externally in the case of George W. Bush. Further, the propaganda-drivel that tepidly slizzered out of your NCO’s gullet regarding your role doesn’t mesh with the reality that, if some dude higher on the hierarchy wants… Read more »

Sir Alan
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I keep hearing this same story again and again and again. People keep asking “why do wives cheat on military guys of all people?” Hypergamy. Hypergamy. Hypergamy. Lack of red pill on the guy’s part. These guys put it all on the line abroad but get a lukewarm reception back home from civilians, the gubment, and their wives.

It’s all just a depressing clusterfuck.

AlphaBeta
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Ironically, my first experiences with “game” was when I was in the military being friends with the guys who were the naturals on base.

TA
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TA
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Participation in the military is about one fundamental thing: substituting somebody else’s judgment for your own. Despite the indisputable physical badassery that many military men display, that mental and moral lapse is the most dehumanizing thing a man can put himself through. If they say kill, you kill. If they say die, you die. If they say go into a situation where you’re the bad guy, shoot at people who are trying to defend their community against you, and then pat yourself on the back for being a hero, you do that. They don’t even have to tell you to… Read more »

Eric
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Martel, I agree no two individuals’ military experiences are the same, though those of us who’ve done it can make some fair generalizations. Check out my response to you in the Mr. Softee thread. Jeremy, I agree not every soldier is a good soldier. Some enter and leave the Army without learning a thing. At the same time, many who were good soldiers fulfill their contracts and don’t re-enlist. I didn’t. Being fit, functioning, and strong are alpha qualities, at least among men. Add that soldiers, including relatively low ranking, young soldiers, are placed in position to lead other men… Read more »

Unending Improvement
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You can’t be Alpha and spend more than 4 years in the military. If you are an Alpha, you avoid the military, unless you come from a military family, and which in that case you work your ass off and enter a service academy, where they proceed to beat and manipulate the Alpha out of you. I knew dudes who came in and could get pussy pretty much at will. Then they hit the military and decided to get married, or they hooked up with a girl than got wrapped around her, married or not. I only knew 2 dudes… Read more »

James
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James
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Rollo, as a young man in his 20s what should I be doing when dealing with women? I’m new to your blog so haven’t read many entries but is there a few posts you can point me to on what I should be doing?

FuriousFerret
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immoralgables
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@ James

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/game-resources/

FuriousFerrett is also on the right track. My link is giving you the techniques.

Eric
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Eric
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Martel,

I get the feminine imperative is what it is. I’m still coming to grips with it on a gut level, but I understand the concept. What I meant with ‘parasitic on masculine values’ was less about judging the nature of FI and more about the extent of its reach into our domain.

Robert highlighted the stark difference. Where I see the military as a repository of masculine values and culture that should be paired with the red pill, he sees a prime example of FI control of men.

Martel
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@ Unending: Yes, you can be Alpha and be a career soldier. I’ve seen it DOZENS of times, not anectdotally, in person. I’m aware of the whole brainwashed/enslaved point some people are making, and I see it to a SMALL EXTENT, but I’m not going to respond to the condescension for fear of breaking my laptop in the process. If somebody thinks I’ve been indoctrinated, I PRAY they get the chance to tell me in person. (and I won’t need to come within arms’ length of them to make them cry). @ Eric: There’s plenty of FI in the military,… Read more »

Solo
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2263518/I-left-love-life-I-thought-I-better-Now-Im-childless-42.html?ito=feeds-newsxml ^^MORE evidence what hypergamy and feminism does for women, Roosh’s post on meeting women at the book store http://www.rooshv.com/the-number-one-corrupter-of-women Is one step but I will even take it one step further. Meeting women who place spiritual matters first tend to be the most kind and feminine women. I’m not talking religious women who slutted it up have a bunch of kids and now want a “Captain Save a Hoe” but women who were raised in a spiritual environment. A spiritual women who submits herself to God and her husband will be more easier to deal with than a slore… Read more »

Survivorman
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I didn’t see it alluded to here yet so I will post this from “NO Ma’am”: Briffault’s Law “The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.” — Robert Briffault, The Mothers, I, 191 ———————————————————————————- The Rosetta Stone of Women’s Behaviour There are a few corollaries I would add: 1 – Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association. 2 – Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for… Read more »

Solo
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Solo
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Rollo check your spam box sir

T and A Man
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Reflecting on this, I don’t believe you can limit an arena of male values to the military. Moreso, any male workplace, and i would refer to times past. Machine workshops, mines, etc. When the sacrifice of males is rewarded by other males, fraternity can only develop.

Now reading above about the public service, particuarly how efficient and beyond corruption we would see it in Bismarckian germany, or the Raj in India. The were only populated by males. Would a fraternal bond be strong enough to withstand corruption?

Thus, does a female presence degrade a workplace where you need male values?

Nutz
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This is a great topic. When looking at masculine vs feminine behaviors and ideals passed down from generation to generation, what men have been indoctrinated with has been pretty much the same over the years from what I can tell going as far back as the silent generation. Honor Loyalty Integrity These qualities are drilled into little boys from early childhood, but women do not receive the same indoctrination. I think this is why there’s no female equivalent to “bros before hos”. Now how does this apply to the military? Just look at the Air Force’s core values: http://www.airforce.com/learn-about/our-values/ Integrity… Read more »

Nutz
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The real kick in the balls is that women’s grooming by society and their elders has drastically changed over the generations. No more are days of women being brought up to be become good housewives and mothers, ready to settle down shortly after high school. Nope, these days it’s girls growing up emulating their favorite reality show sluts and being pushed into solipsism and hookup culture, I think mainly by their single mothers. who want to live vicariously through them and the lack of a father figure to temper these desires. The rampant unchecked hypergamy running rampant in our culture… Read more »

( @ Y @ )
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Have to agree with the others who have already said military is far from alpha. Guurl world and the FI is alive and kicking. My squad leader at basic was a manjawed 5 trying way to hard to “prove” herself among the male squad leaders. Blue balled young men falling over themselves to out beta game each other for the influx of women which thanks to the scarcity factor have transformed 2 points higher in SMV than civilians, military is heaven for plain Janes and fuggo’s btw. Girls given a pass for inadequate PT. 1 fatass I know for a… Read more »

The One Reason
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Right. Let’s see. Atten-hion! Heh. Agree with tatedearl on upholding moral codes being solely a realm of male-only interaction; the female “best-deal” (read: tingle or validation-inducing) imperative is too self-serving for that useless, idealistic tosh. I concur fully on Ya’s points about being in the strobe-light filled trenches if one wants to learn about pick-up/seduction in full. The last couple of months after a return to NG, armed with info on social and behavioural patterns, has greatly fleshed-out (yes, a pun) the concepts. (P)re-calibrating on the fly, the effect of differing approaches (calm, suited mr. Bond vs. RSD-apparelled off-the-bat-negging Tyler… Read more »

Eric
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I agree with the comment that a source of the problem is that soldiers form strong idealistic relationships with each other based on intimate trust, expressed with cliches like ‘battle buddy’, ‘no man left behind’, ‘watch each other’s back/6’, etc.. They don’t recognize the special trust-based bond among soldiers, with its relational equity, is distinctly masculine (fraternal), and therefore try to apply the same standard to their wives and girlfriends, to poor result. I say again, the red pill movement isn’t about arriving as an irrationally confident Alpha any more than joining the Army is about arriving as a recruiting… Read more »

Eric
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Martel: “There’s plenty of FI in the military, and there’s also plenty of masculinity.”

My hope is red pill spread on the ground will corral, control, and contain FI in the military and thereby protect and facilitate spread and growth of a red pill ruggedized masculinity that eventually spills over into civilian society.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the soldiers you might class as “omegas” are the 1st ones to step up and apply their underused soldier skills to spreading the red pill because they’re dissatisfied and ready for a radical change.

3rd Millenium Men
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“This is naturally frustrating for a young soldier wondering why his sacrifice and commitment to duty doesn’t make him any more attractive, more arousing, more deserving of his girlfriend or wife’s monogamous commitment. He’s done everything ‘right’ yet there is no advancement, no appreciation, and in fact sometimes outright abandonment of him and his ‘principles’.” These traits used to mean a lot more than they do now. Sadly in our day and age they’re often devalued by women constantly seeking new, fresh alpha. Just like guys addicted to porn can have massive problems with women in the real world, women… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
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I get the feminine imperative is what it is. I’m still coming to grips with it on a gut level, but I understand the concept. What I meant with ‘parasitic on masculine values’ was less about judging the nature of FI and more about the extent of its reach into our domain. Robert highlighted the stark difference. Where I see the military as a repository of masculine values and culture that should be paired with the red pill, he sees a prime example of FI control of men. The topic du jour over at Dalrock’s blog this week is (yet… Read more »

Tam the Bam
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Tam the Bam
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Moi? Being screamed at by some halfwitted purple-faced English alcoholic all day and night, and all that running about and shouting, in dreadful clothes?
I should cocoa. Match made in heaven. Not.

“Go fight for your country!”
“Why, where are my acres?”

(I know where they used to be. A lo-oong, long time ago. Before I was born).

Joe Blow
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Everybody who serves isn’t a stud or even a good person; the term “10 percenters” is a military term to reflect that 10 percent of servicemembers are utter pieces of shit. Most of the rest of the soldiers are good and another 10% or so are rockstars. Natural tendencies are magnified in the military context, and many veterans just keep on doing what worked for them when they become civilians. Those guys who barely bumped along in the military will barely bump along as civilians, and the gangstas never change, but the rest of the servicemembers tend to be strong… Read more »

Martel
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One of the ways I see a lot of soldiers eventually waking up is the female Sick Call Rangerette. Holy shit female soldiers went to Sick Call a lot. Every fucking day at least a few of them were off getting their lady parts or some other crap checked. And when all the male soldiers were freezing our asses off PMCSing the trucks, somehow the females got to organize the TM’s in the office inside. Also, I’m proud to say that in my company of about 130 in Korea, in the space of a month FOUR female soldiers got pregnant.… Read more »

Stingray
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The higher-ups seems to think it’s because of ignorance about birth control.

Well yeah. The higher ups are ignorant of the fact that if women weren’t there they couldn’t get pregnant.

amhix
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Don’t know if you’ve seen this article, but it’s worth a read: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2124246/Samantha-Brick-downsides-looking-pretty-Why-women-hate-beautiful.html

Robert
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I agree with Eric and Martel that being in the military is a reality-based endeavour so the FI gets noticed a lot quicker. Eric – why do you think that the military is going to be different from any sector that has already been colonised? None of them got the redpill, despite being hamstrung into bloated, unresponsive and ineffective versions of themselves.* The girls will take the office roles because they’re aiming to lay the situational alphas with stars on their shoulders, the less competent or downright repellent females will be (are!) favoured with a rewrite of requirements, and gradually… Read more »

Martel
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One other aspect of the femmes in military thing that gets overlooked is that it does affect comraderie among the males. Even the cows get hit on in majority-male environments, and when you’re hot for some babe who’s getting action from one of your buddies in the back of an LMTV during a field mission, it makes you less likely to see your buddies as a fellow soldier. He instead becomes a rival, and in life or death situations, that’s a definite minus. Kudos to the marine officer who wrote that article, though. I respect a woman who admits her… Read more »

Unending Improvement
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Pregnancy is such a huge problem in the Navy it’s pathetic.

The Navy is designed to turn men into white knights, and it works.

Suze
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Rollo, I know this is not the post for this – but I just wanted to show this clip to you and the other guys on the board: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2IedSTcpbk. This kid is not quite red-pill, but he’s off to an awesome start!

Case
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Case
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@Rollo 9:03 AM, re: “For all their kvetching they refuse to accept the feminine imperative as a concept. They refuse to look beyond the narrow scope of the effect of the FI on their solitary religious institution. This comment thread is an excellent example of another, and much broader, social institution, the military, the FI has both projected feminine primacy on, while ensuring that the beta chumps it depends on stay pliable, ignorant of, and useful to, the feminine imperative.” But you’ve met these guys right? You know they are never, ever going to understand the FI. It just isn’t… Read more »

stg58/Animal Mother
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I served on both sides of the USMC, the ground side and the pogue side. The difference was stark. The ground side was what you think of the Marine Corps as: tough, hard and merciless. It was also the best time I had in my whole life. My Battalion Commander had one lung. The other collapsed due to a chance encounter with a smoke grenade. My maintenance chief was one of 19 Marines to walk off of Khe Sanh under his own power. If you walked into his office he threw a bottle of Jack Daniels at you that you… Read more »

stg58/Animal Mother
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By the way, the picture at the top of the post is of Marines, not soldiers.

BA
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BA
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I agree with STG58. I was an Infantryman first then got my commission and was assigned to a medical branch because of my education. The difference between the infantry with no women, and a unit with women was tremendous. Units with women suck (and not in the good way). The cliques, the backstabbing, having to pick up their slack, the whining. It was just miserable. And you couldn’t be direct (shout) at them to change their performance, you had to be all touchy feely and counsel them. Blech. I got out after that cause I couldn’t stand being a feminized… Read more »

Martel
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stg: GREAT insights, but the Marines probably have it better than any other branch. What you described sounds like paradise compared to the Army. I can say that I never had a quality female NCO or officer. Sometimes too bitchy, sometimes stupid, sometimes a pushover, sometimes almost decent until she got in a bad mood. I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but I didn’t see it myself. In my mind this dovetails into some of the racial crap happening in the manosphere: http://www.returnofkings.com/3475/racism-is-a-feminists-best-friend I’ve seen innumerable quality men of all races in the military, and they generally get why the… Read more »

OlioOx
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Rollo sorry this is O/T but this REALLY needs an extended analysis from YOU:

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=wxWuREjuLAE

This is Owen of RSD saying it’s absolutely fine to marry a former raging slut if you have developed the right attitude.

(In fact I want to hear from everyone on this — Mark Minter! Heartiste! Roosh! Even the grotesques like greatbooksformen, KingA, etc. for comic relief)

notrain
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notrain
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While I am none of the aforementioned guys, I’d still like to chime in. I consider all of the PUA Instructors pretty much as a bunch of non-lifting herbs who feed women social fuel and then pretend they know how women work. Then they teach clueless omegas/betas a sort of blueprint on how to interact with women instead of truly teaching the inner workings BEHIND the scenes. It is almost like a cargo cult going through all the motions but the planes never drop those crates full of food. So to answer your question: It is a good idea to… Read more »

taterearl
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It’s okay to play with fire if you have the right attitude about it.

Problem is you can still get burned.

YaReally
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YaReally
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OlioOx: soon as you finally swallow the red pill and accept that hypergamy doesn’t care about your Madonna/whore complex, it only cares that you remain a high value man in her eyes, you’ll understand what Owen is saying.

Don’t stop working on yourself, improving yourself as a man, and attracting your woman. When you slack off on all that, the virgin Good Girl you married will be sucking my dick in the bathroom of a bar on her Girls’ Night Out.

Martel
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Mark Minter
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A soldier, a sailor, and a Marine are milling about waiting to participate in Obama’s second inaugural parade. All three are married and talk turns to their wives and that Valentine’s Day is coming up pretty soon. The soldier says, “Last year I bought my wife some flowers and I went to the Credit Union, took out a loan and bought her new car. I figured that even if she didn’t like the flowers, she would like the car.” The sailor says, ” I bought my wife some candy and went to the Credit Union and took out loan so… Read more »

Mark Minter
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The lld ex-Marine Gunny had just moments to live. At his side were his family, his wife and four sons, three of which had blonde hair, the other ginger. “Clara, I always worried you were screwing around while I was deployed. I’ve always wondered why one of our sons had red hair. Tell me truthfully, is he really my son?” Clara put her hand on her heart and fervently swore that yes, he was his son. “Oh thank goodness,” croaked the old Gunny and he died with a smile on his face. As the family left the room, the wife… Read more »

Mark Minter
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A soldier says to his wife, “Say something to me that will make me both happy and sad at the same time.”

The wife replies, “You have a much bigger dick than the other guys in your platoon.”

OlioOx
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Thanks for all the comments so far, notrain, taterearl, Yareally. — and Minter, great jokes, moar! (Any thoughts on the Tyler vid?)

No comment at all Rollo? Perhaps you’ve already covered this whole line of thinking in previous posts? If so just link and I’ll read.

trackback

[…] The problem is, MOST guys.. especially the Beta’s… are not the Dr. Doom type. They don’t have the ego, charisma. extroversion or sociopathic tendencies to pull off such a ruse over the short haul, much less a long one. Hence why they’re Beta’s. Even most Alpha’s aren’t sociopaths. But for some strange fucking reason… it seems one too many women got simply magnetized to these alluring men and seek them out, perhaps because they fulfil the dark triad traits so well by their very nature! Then they rationalize it away by telling everyone within earshot “Oh you don’t know him like i do, he’s… Read more »

michaeltx
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michaeltx
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..on a side note, the fair sex can finally join us in the frontlines… [breaking news via Reuters] “U.S. to lift ban on women in front-line combat jobs” http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/24/us-usa-military-women-idUSBRE90M1FI20130124 By David Alexander and Phil Stewart WASHINGTON | Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:22pm EST (Reuters) – The U.S. military will formally end its ban on women serving in front-line combat roles, officials said on Wednesday, in a move that could open thousands of fighting jobs to female service members for the first time. The move knocks down another societal barrier in the U.S. armed forces, after the Pentagon in 2011 scrapped… Read more »

Mebus
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Jack Nicholson as Col. Nathan R. Jessup in ‘A Few Good Men’ shares some thoughts on the matter:

“There is nothing on this earth sexier, believe me, gentlemen, than a woman you have to salute in the morning.

Promote ’em all, I say, because this is true – if you haven’t gotten a blowjob from a superior officer, well, you’re just letting the best in life pass you by.”

Eric
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Eric
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Martel, agreed and I’m not white. Robert: “Eric – why do you think that the military is going to be different from any sector that has already been colonised?” I view the military as the last best repository in our society of masculine values and culture, but I didn’t say it would be that way forever. The time for masculine-military conservationists who are wielding the red pill to act is now. Counter-question: Why the exception of writing off military men when the red pill movement is about, by, and for awakening men who have been immersed in the Matrix? As… Read more »

Eric
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Martel, The diversity of the military is a main reason I believe the red pill in the military would grow the red pill trend: Soldiers who enter the Army from various groups and geographies will, as veterans, return to those groups and geographies with their experience, which can include the red pill. Moreover, many veterans go to college, including trend-setting ‘Cathedral’ Ivy-and-peer colleges. It’s one thing for college kids to talk shit about the military as an abstraction; when veterans are their classmates, it’s an different interpersonal dynamic. Imagine red pilled student-veterans shotgun-spreading across the nation’s campuses. The red pill… Read more »

Robert
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@ Eric, and this’ll have to be the last comment before we locked in here… I completely agree that the military has a higher percentage of men who understand what masculinity is and means than any other branch of society. I agree that the vast majority of guys in the military would get the red pill if it was laid out to them, and I agree that the quickest way to show the reality of the FI to young men is to demonstrate the preferential treatment women expect and receive when in harms’ way, when ostensibly they are all doing… Read more »

michaeltx
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http://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/4-ways-women-in-combat-will-change-business.html

“4 Ways women in combat will change business”

Ton
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Ton
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well I’ll be dipped in shit and rolled in fire ants if Eric’s comment and much of Rollo’ s article didn’t describe me in all kinds of ways. There are reasons all my friends are vets or active duty Any rate, I tell folks 6 plus years of combat was easier then marriage and if I were ever to have the ptsd it would be from the ex wife and not the wars. Every young trooper I know who has eaten his gun has done so over woman troubles. All you who think playing led tag with hajji is easy,… Read more »

dannyfrom504
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were you ever in Service?

as a 19 year active duty HM, i’ve seen more human suffering and dismemberment than one should be exposed to.

the militart is simply a microcosm of the civilian world. military guys can actually be MORE beta than civilian guys. i see dudes absolutely supplicating to 6’s.

i REFUSE to get into realtionships with military women. fuck….YES. LTR….no. i’m SURROUNDED by green HM’s (guys who did time with Marine’s in the suck). all of us have PSTD and are the most laid back bastards you’ll ever see.

thanks for this post. stay up.

Eric
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Eric
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Over at the Woman and the Dragon, SSM’s latest post about girls mixing with Boy Scouts dovetails with this post: http://thewomanandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/on-my-honor-i-will-do-my-best-to-put-girls-on-a-pedestal/ The Boy Scouts are like the junior version of the Army in that they’re both based on the traditional men’s gender role. They both embody traditional masculinity in men’s terms, but also presume men’s traditional reciprocal and complementary relationship with the traditional women’s gender role. Both aspects have been needed to advance our civilization. The problem is modern feminism has withdrawn women from the traditional gender bargain. Many men haven’t caught on and continue to carry out our side… Read more »

Eric
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Eric
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Ton, Yep. Rollo’s Mr. Softee post motivated me to respond because I don’t want the baby thrown out with the bathwater. As seen in these comments, for folks without a personal understanding of the military, it’s easy to mix together the parts that are essentially masculine and should be preserved with the parts that need updating and fixing. As I said, I learned an appreciation of manhood as a soldier that I most likely wouldn’t have learned as a civilian. That’s precious and an opportunity I want kept intact for younger generations of American men. “nothing better then helping the… Read more »

Ton
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Ton
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Eric, 24 years as an infantryman with a short stint as an impromptu cav scout and by far the best part was mentoring young men. It is what I will miss the most I have about 8 years total down range time, starting in 1989 and ended my 6th deployment for the “global war on terror” last month. I’ve seen what you’ve seen Danny, seen it done to friends and done those things to others. None of it stacks up to what marriage did to me. I have friends I miss, friends who are missing parts of their body and… Read more »

Eric
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Eric
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Ton,

My 1st taste was mail call in Basic Training and the Dear John letters to guys in my platoon who had joined in order to make a better life for their wives and/or kids – decent men ‘manning up’ for their families. As a romantic idealist and believer of relational equity, I didn’t believe the Dear John stereotype was real until I witnessed it.

I can’t think of a demographic of American men who deserve better and need the red pill more than military men. They’re ready for it.

Ton
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Ton
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Yep, 1st awol I saw was in boot camp when this fat guy’s wife went feral. We called him cake and he was holding steady during the most demanding event in his life until then. The red pill never occurred to me at the time. I was to green and still thought most women were like my grandmother This last trip we had 7 out of 15 wives go feral, and one that went a whoring while we were packing up. Or get caught at it. Who knows the real number? None of the boys have done anything stupid, but… Read more »

Eric
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Eric
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Rollo: “This comment thread is an excellent example of another, and much broader, social institution, the military, the FI has both projected feminine primacy on, while ensuring that the beta chumps it depends on stay pliable, ignorant of, and useful to, the feminine imperative.” Ton: “Work was the perfect place to lay down red pill reality since there were no women to file a complaint.” A weak hold can maintain – and eventually tighten – its grip if left unchallenged. I’m not religious so I can’t speak with authority on the social structure of Church communities, but my understanding is… Read more »

Atom Smasher
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I haven’t had time to read through all the replies, so perhaps this was covered already, but I notice that men who have been in the military tend to have an extremely high level of “Wight Knight” syndrome. If they even see a hint of a man acting (in his view) aggressively toward a woman, the White Knight will kick in, entirely regardless of the facts of what he is witnessing.

CG
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CG
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I spent 6 years enlisted at 3/75, one of the elitist units in the Army. I did 3 tours in the GWOT (2 Afghanistan, 1 Iraq). If by describing alpha, you are saying the ability to command respect, remain calm under the most stressful of situations, tough, smart, resilient etc. we all fit that bill. The funny thing is, like has been mentioned some of these guys were hard as woodpecker lips and stronger than a garlic milkshake, but you get them around girls and it like they don’t know what to do. This is really surprising since there were… Read more »

Ton
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Ton
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Hey CG, I started off in 1st bat. Good to see another Ranger around these parts

Rollo Tomassi
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If anyone has any doubt about the depths to which the Feminine Imperative will dig in order to make sure that the narrative is always focused on the feminine, read no further than this:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/16/16540098-like-an-airborne-disease-concern-grows-about-military-suicides-spreading-within-families?lite

Even with overwhelming statistics indicating male suicide rates in the military, the Feminine Imperative will still seek to redefine and redirect the most heinous of tragedy back to itself as the more injured of victims.

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